Superman + Silver Surfer V.S Thor + Hulk +Green Lantern

Standard versions of characters for both teams ( I.E versions like World Breaker, Rune King, or Paralax)

Green Lantern is Hal Jordan

Battle takes place on Earth

No BFR

No prep

No knowledge of either team

Random encounter

Morals on

Fight to the death

Team 1 takes it.

Hulk is also pointless here dude. You have 4 people who can fly here

Team 1 pretty easily.

Surfer Solos.

Team 1, Surfer arguably solos. also

I love the image of the fight starting, and hulk just being stuck on the ground as everyone else basically flies into space and starts chucking planet destroyers at each other.

@dratini1331: I...mean....

these guys can fly circles around the earth before he comes back down from jumping...what is he going to do -.-

@dratini1331: Why do people discards Hulk so easily? Do people actually read comics? Can't they be a little more creative? Why not using Hulk as a Pin Ball like Captain Marvel did in Avengers? Why not taking the battle to the ground instead of fighting with tunnel-vision... All of them wouldn't be like "Hey, we just happened to have a brick that can't fly... Let's just ignore his magnificent tanking and brick abilities and let's fight against these 2 guys that also happen to be able to beat us 1v1".

I'm not convinced team 1 takes it "easy".

@monsterstomp:

Nice new avi Stomp!

@wolverine08: Cheers lol.

@ghostravage:

Why would Team 1 want to fight on the ground, thereby allowing team 2 a numbers advantage? Neither of them are stupid either.

so what happens? all of team 2 sits on the ground. all of team 1 stays in the air and they just exchange ranged attacks with Hulk trying to jump at them?

or maybe Hulk is going to ride on Thor?

Once again surfer solos!

1. Why would the other team allow them to take the advantage by totally ignoring one of their team-mates... See? I can answer with a question too.
2. Nope, they try to take the battle to the ground, maybe Thor punching someone to Hulk's area, or Green Lantern creating a construct to help Hulk fly, etc etc etc... Be creative.
3. Nope.

@ghostravage:

1. Which was my entire point in the first place. The argument just goes round in circles.
2. Team 2 tries to take it to ground, Team 1 wants to stay in the air. Again, this argument has no ending.
3. So Hulk having never met Green Lantern before is just going to allow himself to be toted around? Moreover, Green Lantern having to carry Hulk around is pretty much going handicap him to some degree. Its not as if he can just fight Superman or SS so easily that he can afford to try to keep Hulk relevant at the same time. Its going to require all of his concentration to fight Superman and SS probably would kick his ass regardless.

Bottom line either Hulk not being able to fly puts him at a disadvantage against someone who can, and a handicap to his teammates who can if he has them. That is pretty much a rule across all forms of warfare, fiction or reality, whether you like it or not.

Team 1

@ghostravage: I was just musing over it as a funny concept, not a full analysis.

1. No that wasn't your point. Your point was Hulk can't fly, he's irrelevant, when they are several ways to make him relevant.
2. Why would Team 1 try to keep it in the air? Aren't Surfer and Superman always try to fight people stupidly, let alone morals on?
3. Gladiator fought Hulk on the ground, Surfer fought Hulk on the ground(several times), Thor fought Hulk on the ground(several times), Hyperion fought Hulk on the ground, Iron Man (somehow a genius) fought Hulk on the ground (several times), Sentry fought Hulk on the ground... I can keep naming instances. I mentioned 1 way to make Hulk "relevant", you still have no counter for Green Lantern making a construct and encasing both Superman and Hulk in a green bubble and let them smash themselves, Hulk is as relevant as any other character here, and given the fact they know nothing about each others enemies, those plans can work.

@dratini1331: I replied to the wrong person :) But i hear ya.

@ghostravage:

1. It was. But I guess I wasn't clear enough. And I didn't say irrelevant. I said major disadvantage. If I can fly and you can't. I decide how and when to engage. Its battle 101 and fairly logical.
2. lol. I could say the exact same thing about Hal, Thor and Hulk. Thor especially.
3. Really? Do you even need this explained to you? There is no fight to be had if they don't fight him on the ground. You literally can't write Hulk fighting them in the air because the he can't fly. So they handicap the flier so they have something to show the readers. Because if they didn't there is nothing to write about. We are not writing a book. We are arguing what would happen in a fight with logic (or at least I am).
4. So somehow, GL is going to encase both of them in a construct when the battle starts? Are Superman and Hulk holding hands to start off? I didn't realize GL can so easily move Superman around without effort. And we're not even bringing up SS at this, who's all ready said by half the people in the thread, including you as being able to solo Team 2, and probably could solo if Superman jumped on to team 2. But yeah, I'm the one with no basis for an argument here.

Team 1 takes it.

Hulk is also pointless here dude. You have 4 people who can fly here

1. You did say he was irrelevant, but with other words...
2. So then WHY assuming Hulk is irrelevant, don't try to change what you said, obviously he has a disadvantage, but they still need to get close to him to fight him, and neither his team nor the enemy team is going to ignore him because he can't fly, he would probably be the one calling the most attention to begin with.
3. I don't need anything, im just pointing out Hulk is as relevant as anyone in this thread and the fact that he can't fly is somehow compensated by both teams in-character and having no knowledge whatsoever about their enemies. Anyways, i can name instances of everybody here fighting flying bricks the same way they fight non-flying bricks. It's not something as flawless as you are trying to make it to be.
4. I can see it this way, Superman goes, and since he doesn't know the enemy, tries to talk them down and comes close to Hulk since he's the most agitated one... However, because GL and Thor are the only ones that have knowledge on Hulk's flying disadvantage, they can play the right cards and make him "relevant". So GL proceeds to encase him with Hulk inside while Thor fights SS (which happens to lose quite often to Thor) yelling stuff at Hulk the same way Abyss did in Avengers #2, making him even more capable of holding Superman in a forced brawling... really, i can come up with multiple scenarios where Hulk becomes relevant since it's in-character/morals on.

@ghostravage: ...

If this whole scenario is based around knowledge and being character. SS knows Thor and Hulk. Superman knows Hal. Superman and Hal in character would just say "Hey we're friends, let not even fight in the first place". And Norrin, also a pacifist, says the same to Thor just ignores Hulk until he calms down.

And in the case of being unable to avoid a fight SS and Superman wouldn't interact with each other at all, sharing their respective knowledge.

In summary, everyone who has an advantage over Hulk will disregard it because its Hulk and Hulk is the strongest ever. Superman and SS are idiots and Thor, Hal and Hulk are master tacticians.

I yield.

@ghostravage: I like Thor a lot but honestly I don't understand how he always beats Surfer ( same as how Hulk always beats him, ridiculous really)

In this battle Hulk is indeed a none factor since iirc Surfer just returns him to Banner easily. The problem is the numbers advantage since Hal has kryptonited ( new word) Supes before so again supes is fodder here.The real question is can SS take on both Hal and Thor simultaneously ? Morals off I think he can but then this IS morals on and thor is more likely to be hitting harder.

I think team2 takes 5.5/ 10 depends on if Surfer is being a pacifist or is letting go remorsefully like with BRB

@fallschirmjager:

I yield.

Im just going to use this phrase from your whole argument. I do believe you need to yield since you can't even read the OP properly. Im just going to be nice and assume you think Hulk is irrelevant and said all the things you said in the last comment just because you didn't read the rules... Let me do you a favor...

Standard versions of characters for both teams ( I.E versions like World Breaker, Rune King, or Paralax)

Green Lantern is Hal Jordan

Battle takes place on Earth

No BFR

No prep

No knowledge of either team

Random encounter

Morals on

Fight to the death

1. So first we have No BFR, which automatically falls into them engaging with Hulk and not conveniently throwing him somewhere else.
2. No Prep, self explanatory.
3. This is the most important and the one you seemed to ignore. NO KNOWLEDGE OF EITHER TEAM. So by this i can assume Silver Surfer and Superman have NO KNOWLEDGE on Thor/Hulk nor Hal respectively and viceversa.
4. Random encounter already strengthens this point.
5. Morals on gives more debatable field on the instance.

So why assuming im ignoring something from either side? I didn't come up with anything they wouldn't do in-character/morals on... While your just assuming they will >IGNORE< someone... Something they hardly do in-character. You just don't know how important is the "in-character/morals on" rule is. Either restricts or allows debatable field. In this case, it restricts Team 1 and allows more to Team 2.

@thanosii: Read the rules... Surfer doesn't know Hulk, its a fight to the death, no absorbing since Banner could just Hulk out again... Yes, he will be a pacifist and the fight would be pretty damn close because of it.

@ghostravage: I just assumed since we were going to ignore Superman and SS intelligence, powerset advantages or anything else for the sake of convenience it was cool to ignore anything else as well.

I still find this humorous as you've all ready stated Team 1 wins and SS solos. All you're doing is beating your chest about Hulk.

1. Please, point out where did i ignore any of their powers, it's their powers that give them the win.
2. SS could indeed solo. Being in character doesn't mean they wont use their whole arsenal, it's a fight to the death after all. What they wont do is go for the kill right away because it goes against their morals. Surfer could still beat them the same way he beat Beta Ray Bill while feeling remorse.

@ghostravage: Your whole "scenario" of Superman getting trapped pretty much disregards Superman in every single way.

His intelligence of walking up to 3v1 scenario, completely ignoring two other people trying to hurt him. His apparently inability to break GL constructs and thereby fre himself. And your implication that he would simply disregard his flight ability and fight Hulk on the ground even with his flight/ranged advantages, despite there being no reason to.

I never said Supes and SS would blitz and kill everyone, either by the way

But unless Hulk is rampaging around killing people, why would either of them even interact with? You said yourself, they are non-hostile characters. They probably would just fly around dodging attacks from Team 2 attempting to not fight (and given their speed advantages, there is nothing really team 2 could do to stop them either).

Bottom line, if I can fly and you can't: advantage me - especially when I'm faster. I'm not trying to argue Hulk can't beat Angel, but honestly - come on. I don't care how big of a hulk fan you are, Tanks don't fight Fighter Jets very well to my knowledge.

In any case, we've agreed many times over Team 1 wins, and we're really debating here is Hulk's relevance. And given that we agree team 2 doesn't win, its a bit...I dunno? Pointless? Silly? Nit-picky? Something.

Anyways, its late, so peace.

Team 1. Surfer could arguably solo.

TEam 1.

@fallschirmjager:

His intelligence of walking up to 3v1 scenario, completely ignoring two other people trying to hurt him. His apparently inability to break GL constructs and thereby fre himself.And your implication that he would simply disregard his flight ability and fight Hulk on the ground even with his flight/ranged advantages, despite there being no reason to.

Why would he try to break the construct if he's going to be already taking punches from Hulk, and given the fact Superman thinks he's pretty much invulnerable to everything, or happened to think that it's one of the reasons he's going to play the pacifist role in the first place. Not the case with Hal that will just need to see Superman showing the slightest shred of evidence he can fly to know what he needs to do with Hulk and him.

What im saying is he still needs to come down to fight Hulk, and he being in-character and morals on automatically gives Hulk the chance to exchange some punches with him, giving Hal enough time to encase them in a construct giving Hulk the chance to fight his way. The fact that if the battle heats up, whether Surfer frees Superman or he frees himself it's just one of the multiple scenarios that can be argued in this fight.

I never said Supes and SS would blitz and kill everyone, either by the way

Good for you, however, implying they are going to ignore the character that could draw most of their attention is very unlikely to happen.

But unless Hulk is rampaging around killing people, why would either of them even interact with?You said yourself, they are non-hostile characters.They probably would just fly around dodging attacks from Team 2 attempting to not fight (and given their speed advantages, there is nothing really team 2 could do to stop them either).

Because it's in-character... Current Hulk does not blindly attacks if he's with people he knows, i.e Thor, which happens to be on his team as well. Yes, they are non-hostile characters, THAT is the reason Superman will try to come down and play "im mr. invulnerable" like 98% of times when fighting someone he doesn't know. Not willing to fight is pretty much against the very basis of the thread, ignoring his "in-character/morals on" features is against the rules as well.

Bottom line, if I can fly and you can't: advantage me - especially when I'm faster.

Good analogy, i don't know why you mention this, maybe basing ourselves from totally different points i assume? Not denying their abilities, but including their personalities in game as well. Since it's pretty much mentioned as a rule. Deal with it.

Tanks don't fight Fighter Jets very well to my knowledge.

There is Anti-Aerial tank weaponry, but im not going into that. <--- indeed pointless.

And given that we agree team 2 doesn't win, its a bit...I dunno? Pointless? Silly? Nit-picky? Something.

Nope, it's not pointless, it's not silly, but yes, im a nit-picky S.O.B.

Peace.

@ghostravage: unfortunately Surfer would know Hulk, cosmic awareness and the ability to read energy are a part of his skill set. So Hulk is still fodder he, same as Superman since energy drain are power set of team 2, Hal has comparable speed to Supes so can slow him enough for though to take him down with lightning which we know iirc have Koed supes even recently.

Again it comes down to GL and Thor vs Surfer

@thanosii: Surfer will be as intrigued as he's always been. He can't stop analyzing Hulk's energy source because of how immense it is. Also, the same can be said about Thor and Hal, "oh look, his power comes from the ring... take it off" or "look, take out his hammer"... Going by the "cosmic awareness" ability Surfer has, the most accurate instance to happen is Surfer saying "We need to take out the green behemoth, his power is infinite" which then falls down on Hulk being the center of attention rather than a non-factor.

@ghostravage: Glad you agree then next you need to realize he also will know how to do that, factor in his speed and you begin to see how Hulk never beats Surfer.

I'm really torn here Thor has as much versility as Surfer but is slow Hal is faster but lacks the power set to contend with a Surfer written properly. So this comes down to how personality will impact the battle and hence why I give the Thor the light edge

Yeah, the battleboard could be a bit more clear on how we debate. Are we talking hypotheticals with powersets alone like CBR does, or what would likely go down given history in the printed comics like Alvaro's?

@GhostRavage holding it down like always though. Props.

Surfer is not solo'ing with morals. He historically has enough problems with just Thor with those conditions, let along with Hulk and GL. I think it's a very close fight.

Team 1

THANK you!

I didn't get what you meant by that mate :)

Thor and Surfer have shown to be equal in past battles and I do think thats accurate, Hulk + Hal should take care of Superman while Thor and Surfer's battle should still be raging on until the two greens come to aid to end the battle. Team 2 for me

@ghostravage: meant you're doing an excellent job making valid points.

@tifalockhart: Well, thank you very much! :)

Team 1

Not sure why people still put Hulk in fights with characters with actual powers

Team 1 murder stomp

Team 1

Although Superman and SS can fly to their advantage. They still need to eventually engage in combat with the Hulk. How this outcome is played is up to the reader

Team One, no contest.

Hal's ring would get ripped off his finger from a blitzing Superman and/or Surfer, Hulk would get turned back into "puny banner", and Thor alone cannot take on Surfer and Superman simultaneously.