#1 Edited by ManInTheMountain (718 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman battles through an army of doctors as they try to take over Metropolis. He is under a white sun, and he sundips for 20 minutes. Morals are off, but no one is out of character. How far does Supes make it?

1. Dr. Octopus

2. Dr. Doom

3. Dr. Manhattan

4. Dr. Fate

5. Dr. Strange

6. The Doctor (1 hour prep)

7. Dr. Sheldon Cooper

#2 Posted by Thitiki (3750 posts) - - Show Bio

Stops at 3

#3 Posted by ComicStooge (12807 posts) - - Show Bio

@thitiki said:

Stops at 3

Has Manhattan shown anything more than disintegrating tanks?

#4 Posted by Thitiki (3750 posts) - - Show Bio

@thitiki said:

Stops at 3

Has Manhattan shown anything more than disintegrating tanks?

Don't think so I don't think Dr M could beat Supes just don't think Supes could get past intangibility.

#5 Posted by homicidalmaniac (7598 posts) - - Show Bio

Stop At Round 1

#6 Posted by ManInTheMountain (718 posts) - - Show Bio

@thitiki: this is a white sun superman

#7 Posted by Thitiki (3750 posts) - - Show Bio
#8 Edited by proto3296 (1264 posts) - - Show Bio

Doctor doom switches bodies and then kills the superman carcass.

#9 Posted by Jgames (1686 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 7 sheldon stomp, come at me bro

#10 Posted by The_Imperator (1928 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman battles through an army of doctors as they try to take over Metropolis. He is under a white sun, and he sundips for 20 minutes. Morals are off, but no one is out of character. How far does Supes make it?

1. Dr. Octopus

2. Dr. Doom

3. Dr. Manhattan

4. Dr. Fate

5. Dr. Strange

6. The Doctor

7. Dr. Sheldon Cooper

The Doctor should not be higher than Octavious without prep. Without prep, a sundipped Superman speed blitzes and KOs the Doc rather easily.

#11 Posted by ManInTheMountain (718 posts) - - Show Bio

@thitiki: a normal Kryptonian is powered of yellow sun, yes? White suns are capable of producing more powerful sunlight radiation which makes Superman even more powerful. I'm not sure actually how much, but a white sun can seriously amp Supes.

1. White Sun Superman (superamped)

2. Blue Sun Superman (amped)

3. Yellow Sun Superman (normal)

4. Red Sun Superman (human)

#12 Edited by christianrapper (1117 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman battles through an army of doctors as they try to take over Metropolis. He is under a white sun, and he sundips for 20 minutes. Morals are off, but no one is out of character. How far does Supes make it?

1. Dr. Octopus

2. Dr. Doom

3. Dr. Manhattan

4. Dr. Fate

5. Dr. Strange

6. The Doctor (1 hour prep)

7. Dr. Sheldon Cooper

stops at 3. he would need to be superman 1 million to get past 3.

#13 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (17359 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman battles through an army of doctors as they try to take over Metropolis. He is under a white sun, and he sundips for 20 minutes. Morals are off, but no one is out of character. How far does Supes make it?

6. The Doctor (1 hour prep)

7. Dr. Sheldon Cooper

wth. Very bad joke.

Sheldon doesn't even belong in the same gauntlet as the doctor.

#14 Posted by dondave (37409 posts) - - Show Bio

Stops at Fate

#15 Posted by Easternwind (3873 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman battles through an army of doctors as they try to take over Metropolis. He is under a white sun, and he sundips for 20 minutes. Morals are off, but no one is out of character. How far does Supes make it?

1. Dr. Octopus Speed Blitz

2. Dr. Doom Speed Blitz

3. Dr. Manhattan Well, I dont think he could kill supes, but I dont think supes could kill him

4. Dr. Fate Stops

5. Dr. Strange

6. The Doctor (1 hour prep)

7. Dr. Sheldon Cooper

#16 Posted by Dratini1331 (7028 posts) - - Show Bio

Can't judge him under a white sun as it's never happened. Assuming a normal sun, definitely stops at a decent version of 4, can be stopped at 2.

#17 Posted by ManInTheMountain (718 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1: no joke. Sheldon Cooper is op and probably at sky father level or higher

#18 Edited by dorukesin (5955 posts) - - Show Bio

get stomped harsh at Fate

#19 Edited by ManInTheMountain (718 posts) - - Show Bio
#20 Edited by Lord44 (1427 posts) - - Show Bio
#21 Posted by ManInTheMountain (718 posts) - - Show Bio
#22 Posted by Dratini1331 (7028 posts) - - Show Bio
#23 Posted by ManInTheMountain (718 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1: btw, one of Sheldon's feats was annoying the heck out of The One Above All and getting a restraining order from TOAA.

#24 Posted by Rick_Grayson (779 posts) - - Show Bio

@maninthemountain said:

Superman battles through an army of doctors as they try to take over Metropolis. He is under a white sun, and he sundips for 20 minutes. Morals are off, but no one is out of character. How far does Supes make it?

1. Dr. Octopus

2. Dr. Doom

3. Dr. Manhattan

4. Dr. Fate

5. Dr. Strange

6. The Doctor

7. Dr. Sheldon Cooper

The Doctor should not be higher than Octavious without prep. Without prep, a sundipped Superman speed blitzes and KOs the Doc rather easily.

I thought the Doctors PIS shielding was absolute? Like, it would be the same as saying Superman vs Squirrel Girl, whatever the conditions Squirrel Girl needs to win are, are automatically implied?

#25 Posted by The_Imperator (1928 posts) - - Show Bio

@rick_grayson: They're powerful, yes, but they don't simply stop him from losing. They can cause events to fall into place to help the Doctor, but that doesn't come into effect if Superman speed blitzes. Also, morals off but in character makes little sense, but assuming that means Supes won't hold back, the Doctor doesn't have an easy enough way to actually stop him, without a little prep.

#26 Posted by Rick_Grayson (779 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_imperator: I think I'm always going to struggle with the concept of PIS shielding lol. Thanks though.

#27 Edited by The_Imperator (1928 posts) - - Show Bio

@rick_grayson: It's not PIS< that's just the easiest way to explain it without actually explaining it, lol. Here's a link to an in depth look at it.

#28 Posted by Rick_Grayson (779 posts) - - Show Bio
#29 Posted by MrValance (528 posts) - - Show Bio

OP is a little confusing.....seems the odds are stacked in superman's favor,though considering what I can make of the OP it doesn't matter, now for some reason the army of intelligent men decide to take on supes one on one(again wont matter). also im going to assume that since they are invading they all know what their up against and came prepared, thus clark is unlikey to clear round 1 and stops at 2 for sure

#30 Posted by AdamAnouer (239 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_imperator: Not even close. Doc + Sonic Shriek Screwdriver = Supes on his knees. And bare in mind the screwdriver is activated via the Doctors thought. Thought > Super Speed.

#31 Posted by The_Imperator (1928 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_imperator: Not even close. Doc + Sonic Shriek Screwdriver = Supes on his knees. And bare in mind the screwdriver is activated via the Doctors thought. Thought > Super Speed.

Off hand, I can't recall the sonic doing anything on organics, other than the time it took several seconds to kill a Dalek in the novel War of the Daleks. And it works at the speed of sound/light (since it can't all be sonic based :P ), of which SUperman can move faster than.

#32 Edited by JwwProd (9465 posts) - - Show Bio

Stops at Jon.

#33 Edited by AdamAnouer (239 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_imperator: I'll give you credit for the Speed Point because it actually makes sense.

However the Sonic doesn't need to directly effect Organic beings in order to achieve the desired effects similar to how Magneto's doesn't. Sonic frequencies exist everywhere just as Electromagnetic fields...more or less do all you need is the ability to hack into those frequencies to influence anything within them. Essentially the Doctor could quite easily just crank up noise to a level way beyond Superman's tolerance.

#34 Posted by The_Imperator (1928 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_imperator: I'll give you credit for the Speed Point because it actually makes sense.

However the Sonic doesn't need to directly effect Organic beings in order to achieve the desired effects similar to how Magneto's doesn't. Sonic frequencies exist everywhere just as Electromagnetic fields do all you need is the ability to hack into those frequencies to influence anything within them. Essentially the Doctor could quite easily just crank up noise to a level way beyond Superman's tolerance.

Yes, while he could do that, the Doctor doesn't do that in character, so it's questionable if he would do it here.

#35 Edited by Rick_Grayson (779 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_imperator: ok, this feat in particular interests me (although it was a very interesting thread in general).

"Well," said the Doctor, "I thought I might."

"You're going to stand here for zillions of years?"

"That wouldn't work. I'd be long dead."

"Well, you'll be long dead before the odds come up anyway, wont you? Not to mention me. Not to mention probably the whole universe."

"Mm." Thump. Thwack. Pause. "We've talked about probability."

"Yeah. Well, you have. I've listened mostly."

"Well, as long as probability is functioning, then yes, both of us will likely be long dead before this ball could ever go through the wall. We can't physically wait long enough for the odds to come up. But if the wave function collapses, if "long enough" becomes "now"...."

"But what could make that happen?"

"That's the question."

Fitz looked closely at the Doctor's face, trying to discern whether he was having him on. The Doctor turned to meet his gaze. His eyes had that flat, faraway look that always gave Fitz a tiny shiver.

"Well," Fitz said, "I'll leave you to it."

The Doctor nodded and turned back to the ball. Fitz returned to the kitchen.

Thump. Thwack. Pause.

"But if the wave function collapses...." The Doctor murmured.

The ball went through the wall.

"Ouch!" said Fitz.

I hope I got that spoiler block right.So this makes it seem that even the Doctor is sort of helpless against his own shielding. I.E he couldn't have NOT bounced that ball through the wall, because the plot demanded it went through so he could have another adventure.However, the problem I have with this is that if the plot shield transcends anything even the Doctor can do, I keep coming back to the Doctor being an insta-win.This sort of thing seems like it has to be absolute by definition, otherwise it's redundant.

EDIT: I seem to have missed the first bit of that transcript. The Doctor seems to have realised he has some kind of plot shielding (I don't know what he actually thinks it would be, that's not explained) and so he is testing it by saying he will not stop bouncing a ball against a wall until either the ball goes through the wall or he dies. Obviously, the ball going through the wall should be practically impossible.

#36 Posted by AdamAnouer (239 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_imperator: Questionable? yes, unappeasable? not so much.

Granted the Doctor doesn't kill outright he's shown on quite a few ocassions he's happy to lay the groundwork and just sit back while his opponents get utterly destroyed (E.G: Letting the human race discover and kill The Silence at his leisure, Letting several Weeping Angels get erased from history, Letting a rogue trader die on a blown up ship and destroying several cyberman ships at once). I'd suspect with Superman though he'd probably try to incapacitate him rather than kill him and screwing with his hearing would be the easiest way to do it.

Still that could just be me though.

#37 Edited by The_Imperator (1928 posts) - - Show Bio

@rick_grayson said:

@the_imperator: ok, this feat in particular interests me (although it was a very interesting thread in general).

I hope I got that spoiler block right.So this makes it seem that even the Doctor is sort of helpless against his own shielding. I.E he couldn't have NOT bounced that ball through the wall, because the plot demanded it went through so he could have another adventure.However, the problem I have with this is that if the plot shield transcends anything even the Doctor can do, I keep coming back to the Doctor being an insta-win.This sort of thing seems like it has to be absolute by definition, otherwise it's redundant.

It's more predestination that anything else. In the episode Name of the Doctor, we get a peek at what would happen if the Doctor suddenly stopped existing. And it's basically the multiverse collapsing. In a way, it's the universe seeking its own survival there, and also probably his subconscious manipulating probability. In addition, Time Lords' genetics are tied into reality, meaning they can subtly influence it, or even outright take it out back and make it bend it over and take it. Basically, for the average Time Lord it amounts to the odds collapsing in their favor. For the Doctor, who is integral the the universe/multiverse and has multiple higher beings watching out for him, it's a lot more powerful because he's more "important." That "importance" part doesn't usually factor into a VS. battle, since there isn't a plot to be important to.

Basically, since Time Lords can see all of time at once, they have a filter in their subconscious that keeps it from overwhelming them. The Doc's subconscious has done stuff before (Dream Lord, 7's subconscious in a couple novels), so it's most likely that it knows that the Doc has to keep going, and helps bend events to his favor.

#38 Edited by Rick_Grayson (779 posts) - - Show Bio

@rick_grayson said:

@the_imperator: ok, this feat in particular interests me (although it was a very interesting thread in general).

I hope I got that spoiler block right.So this makes it seem that even the Doctor is sort of helpless against his own shielding. I.E he couldn't have NOT bounced that ball through the wall, because the plot demanded it went through so he could have another adventure.However, the problem I have with this is that if the plot shield transcends anything even the Doctor can do, I keep coming back to the Doctor being an insta-win.This sort of thing seems like it has to be absolute by definition, otherwise it's redundant.

It's more predestination that anything else. In the episode Name of the Doctor, we get a peek at what would happen if the Doctor suddenly stopped existing. And it's basically the multiverse collapsing. In a way, it's the universe seeking its own survival there, and also probably his subconscious manipulating probability. In addition, Time Lords' genetics are tied into reality, meaning they can subtly influence it, or even outright take it out back and make it bend it over and take it. Basically, for the average Time Lord it amounts to the odds collapsing in their favor. For the Doctor, who is integral the the universe/multiverse and has multiple higher beings watching out for him, it's a lot more powerful because he's more "important." That "importance" part doesn't usually factor into a VS. battle, since there isn't a plot to be important to.

Dude. That is exactly the missing link my mind needed. So if the fight took place in the actual Whoniverse the Doctor wins 100%. Outside of that we have to debate the character with all his traits and abilities, but without the PIS that the show admittedly gives him.

So he's a super genius with a super powerful Tardis & Sonic Screwdriver etc but does not win just 'because he wins'.

Please tell me I've understood now lol.

#39 Posted by The_Imperator (1928 posts) - - Show Bio


Dude. That is exactly the missing link my mind needed. So if the fight took place in the actual Whoniverse the Doctor wins 100%. Outside of that we have to debate the character with all his traits and abilities, but without the PIS that the show admittedly gives him.

So he's a super genius with a super powerful Tardis & Sonic Screwdriver etc but does not win just 'because he wins'.

Please tell me I've understood now lol.

He loses quite a bit, the ability isn't foolproof. Essentially, if the odds can't be in his favor, he can lose. Also, he hates to use his Time Lord abilities, so there's never any blatent odds manipulation, save a couple times in the novels where it's easier to explain and and not just guess at.

But yes, you've mostly got it :)

#40 Posted by Rick_Grayson (779 posts) - - Show Bio
#41 Edited by ZeroPlus (2284 posts) - - Show Bio
#42 Edited by homicidalmaniac (7598 posts) - - Show Bio
#43 Posted by ZeroPlus (2284 posts) - - Show Bio