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#1 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

New 52 Supes gets caught fighting these 3.

Hollow Ichigo

S Class Yuske

Sage Naruto

Battle on Unbreakable Planet with lots of Forest and Mountains.

Who wins?

#2 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (7043 posts) - - Show Bio

Does New-52 Supes still weak to magic? Also would you consider Ichigo, Yusuke or Naruto's attack magical in nature? If yes to both of them, then I guess they could win. Though Supes does have the massive speed advantage and a myriad of powers.

#3 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

Does New-52 Supes still weak to magic? Also would you consider Ichigo, Yusuke or Naruto's attack magical in nature? If yes to both of them, then I guess they could win. Though Supes does have the massive speed advantage and a myriad of powers.

I still have not seen any decent Combat speed Feats from New 52 on this Battle Thread yet. He also been tag by Lightning along with Wonder Woman rather easily, suggesting not much speed Reaction above 80,000 Miles per Second.

So speed is not too huge.

I do not remember if he still had a weakness to magic. I would consider Demon/Sprit Energy Magic. As well Chakra which has zero physic base laws applied to it. Same for Ichigo which is all soul energy stuff.

#4 Posted by uberhikari (2474 posts) - - Show Bio

@omgomgwtfwtf said:

Does New-52 Supes still weak to magic? Also would you consider Ichigo, Yusuke or Naruto's attack magical in nature? If yes to both of them, then I guess they could win. Though Supes does have the massive speed advantage and a myriad of powers.

I still have not seen any decent Combat speed Feats from New 52 on this Battle Thread yet. He also been tag by Lightning along with Wonder Woman rather easily, suggesting not much speed Reaction above 80,000 Miles per Second.

So speed is not too huge.

I do not remember if he still had a weakness to magic. I would consider Demon/Sprit Energy Magic. As well Chakra which has zero physic base laws applied to it. Same for Ichigo which is all soul energy stuff.

80,000 miles per second is not a huge speed advantage? Not really sure you meant it that way, lol.

Also, in the DBZ vs Superman threads I've never heard anyone argue that ki is magic and, therefore, Superman is weak to it. And I don't think there's any difference between ki, chakra, spirit energy and reiatsu.

#5 Posted by NeonGameWave (9141 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman dies horribly.

#6 Edited by chaoichi (77 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't know anything about Yuske but Superman destroys Naruto and Ichicgo so unless he can solo Superman wins.

#7 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@uberhikari: What I mean is that Superman shown far lower by more than 2/3rds slower than Speed of Light. So not that fast at all compared to Pre 52 Supes. Actually Ultimate Thor is on the speed level lol.

Also I see a vast difference between Spirit and Demon Energy to Not Magical Energy.

Is it on the Scientific charts? No.

Is Beings like Ghost Rider, Entrigan, and host of other that use Spirit and Demon energy not magical....

No. Spirit, Soul, and Demon is all Magical by the definition of science. DBZ Ki is as well IMO as it translate to nothing of Science thus magical, but I like to see any idiot debate Ki is real Scientific Energy debate that as fact.

#8 Edited by uberhikari (2474 posts) - - Show Bio

@uberhikari: What I mean is that Superman shown far lower by more than 2/3rds slower than Speed of Light. So not that fast at all compared to Pre 52 Supes. Actually Ultimate Thor is on the speed level lol.

Also I see a vast difference between Spirit and Demon Energy to Not Magical Energy.

Is it on the Scientific charts? No.

Is Beings like Ghost Rider, Entrigan, and host of other that use Spirit and Demon energy not magical....

No. Spirit, Soul, and Demon is all Magical by the definition of science. DBZ Ki is as well IMO as it translate to nothing of Science thus magical, but I like to see any idiot debate Ki is real Scientific Energy debate that as fact.

Well, I'm not even sure post-crisis Superman has FTL combat speed. I haven't seen any scans that say he is.

Also, there are a lot of people who argue that things like ki, chakura, and reiatsu are magic but I'm not sure I agree. Just because something is not "scientific" doesn't mean that it is magic. For example, the Power Cosmic isn't "scientific" but nobody would argue that that's magic. And, in fact, it's cosmic energy not magic. To me ki, chakura, and reiatsu are spirit and/or life energy; they're not magic. Just like you can have cosmic energy you can also have spirit/life energy. However, I do agree that Yusuke's demon energy should probably count as magic.

#9 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2 said:

@uberhikari: What I mean is that Superman shown far lower by more than 2/3rds slower than Speed of Light. So not that fast at all compared to Pre 52 Supes. Actually Ultimate Thor is on the speed level lol.

Also I see a vast difference between Spirit and Demon Energy to Not Magical Energy.

Is it on the Scientific charts? No.

Is Beings like Ghost Rider, Entrigan, and host of other that use Spirit and Demon energy not magical....

No. Spirit, Soul, and Demon is all Magical by the definition of science. DBZ Ki is as well IMO as it translate to nothing of Science thus magical, but I like to see any idiot debate Ki is real Scientific Energy debate that as fact.

Well, I'm not even sure post-crisis Superman has FTL combat speed. I haven't seen any scans that say he is.

Also, there are a lot of people who argue that things like ki, chakura, and reiatsu are magic but I'm not sure I agree. Just because something is not "scientific" doesn't mean that it is magic. For example, the Power Cosmic isn't "scientific" but nobody would argue that that's magic. And, in fact, it's cosmic energy not magic. To me ki, chakura, and reiatsu are spirit and/or life energy; they're not magic. Just like you can have cosmic energy you can also have spirit/life energy. However, I do agree that Yusuke's demon energy should probably count as magic.

The Problem with that theory to me is that Cosmic Energy is Scientific in the Marvel universe. It can be harness and created via Machines. In the Mass Effect Universe Biotic Energy exist as Scientific Energy. Both cases that Energy is not real in the modern world but is scientificly explain and stated as factual energy.

Nowhere in Marvel, DC, or any Universe is Soul Energy, Spirit Energy, or Demon Energy a Scientific anything.

Now granted Chakra and is Ki is ify, as it is firmly believed to exist by some eastern scientist as our understanding of Life Energy as a whole.

So that is still grey area.

#10 Posted by GhostRider2 (3624 posts) - - Show Bio
Online
#11 Posted by SonDeathEater (668 posts) - - Show Bio

Soul crush

#12 Edited by xlab3000 (3358 posts) - - Show Bio
#13 Posted by Simon_the_digger (3440 posts) - - Show Bio

Supes ftw.

#14 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

bump

#15 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (20317 posts) - - Show Bio

Man, I wish someone would do a new 52 supes feats thread or something..

#16 Edited by frogdog (3569 posts) - - Show Bio

Man, I wish someone would do a new 52 supes feats thread or something..

Just go to the superman forums

#17 Posted by jamesisaacs (214 posts) - - Show Bio

Lol, poor Superman...

#18 Posted by NeonGameWave (9141 posts) - - Show Bio

@xlab3000: Superman wouldn`t be able to keep up with all of them at once, Yusuke alone is massively hypersonic and Yusuke`s Demon Gun via his Mazoku transformation would damage Superman severely. Superman would have to also deal with Naruto`s shadow clones and I don`t think Superman would be able to get through Ichigo`s regenerative abilities either, he regenerates instantaneously also Superman is more of a close range fighter so he will try to engage in close combat but due to Yusuke`s speed, Ichigo`s raw power and Naruto`s variety in ability he would be overrun by the sheer force that is being linked together in a group fight.

#19 Posted by uberhikari (2474 posts) - - Show Bio

This thread is not really worth debating.

New 52 Supes is definitely faster than Ichigo and Naruto, the only person who can possibly give him trouble with respect to speed is Yusuke. All it would take is one good punch and both Ichigo and and Naruto will be K.O.'d. I suppose if Demon energy and/or Spirit energy counts as magic then Yusuke would put up a good fight and eventually win. But he probably couldn't be hit by Supes more than a couple times before he'd get K.O.'d as well.

#20 Edited by Kobra678 (215 posts) - - Show Bio

@uberhikari: Not sure about that. Yusuke has taken quite a bit of damage before and still pulled out a win.

#21 Edited by uberhikari (2474 posts) - - Show Bio

@kobra678 said:

@uberhikari: Not sure about that. Yusuke has taken quite a bit of damage before and still pulled out a win.

Yeah, but he's never been hit with blows hard enough to shake a planet or be felt in space from Earth.

Edit: He's also got to avoid the heat vision and ice breath.

#22 Posted by jamesisaacs (214 posts) - - Show Bio

/thread

#23 Edited by uberhikari (2474 posts) - - Show Bio
#24 Posted by Bossmonster (2389 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow, really? I find that I'm suddenly such and advocate of Superman even though I don't care much for the character. (Minus Prime. Prime for life)

Anyway, Debating that Spirit Energy, Spiritual Pressure and Chakra are magic is out right stupid. Why try to put these energies in some catch all "Would it be considered." No, it wouldn't. It would be considered what ever it is called in the show. More over, I am sure tha Yu Yu Hakusho actually had magic users in it. Botan anyone? Also, the Hōgyoku from bleach was magic. Unlike the powers of the other characters. It's its outrageously clear that Charka and Chi are the samething and we know that Chi does not hurt superman or rather he's not weak to it. So, why do that? Why try to make this argument. It's really silly.

I've said this before about Naruto vs Superman for some god awful reason. He's a complete non factor. He can not fly. Flight plus heat vision is near instant death for Naruto. He's clones will mean nothing since they don't have organs. Superman will see which is the real one and there isn't a single attack that will hurt him in naruto's sage mode.

Ichgo and Yususke have shown the force to probably hurt superman, but neither can stand up to his punching power and Yusuke just doesn't have the speed to keep up with him.

Ichigo is the only possible problem, but still can't tank punches from Clark.

#25 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow, really? I find that I'm suddenly such and advocate of Superman even though I don't care much for the character. (Minus Prime. Prime for life)

Anyway, Debating that Spirit Energy, Spiritual Pressure and Chakra are magic is out right stupid. Why try to put these energies in some catch all "Would it be considered." No, it wouldn't. It would be considered what ever it is called in the show. More over, I am sure tha Yu Yu Hakusho actually had magic users in it. Botan anyone? Also, the

Hōgyoku

from bleach was magic. Unlike the powers of the other characters. It's its outrageously clear that Charka and Chi are the samething and we know that Chi does not hurt superman or rather he's not weak to it. So, why do that? Why try to make this argument. It's really silly.

I've said this before about Naruto vs Superman for some god awful reason. He's a complete non factor. He can not fly. Flight plus heat vision is near instant death for Naruto. He's clones will mean nothing since they don't have organs. Superman will see which is the real one and there isn't a single attack that will hurt him in naruto's sage mode.

Ichgo and Yususke have shown the force to probably hurt superman, but neither can stand up to his punching power and Yusuke just doesn't have the speed to keep up with him.

Ichigo is the only possible problem, but still can't tank punches from Clark.

You seem to know for a fact, so care to share the Proven combat speed Feats of Superman please. What proof you have his Combat Speed (And not Travel speed) is faster than Yuske who is Mach 30+?

Also the whole Chi thing to Chackra is nothing solid proven. It is decided by fans that Ki in DBZ is a scientific measurable energy, thus not magic.

Botan does not use Magic, she as all underworlders use Spirit Energy. Humans use Spirit Energy and Holy Chi Energy. Demons use Demonic Energy. So how does this translate to Science? It doesn't, nothing in YYH Spirit, Holy, or demonic is scientificly explain or quantified.

Same with Bleach Soul energy powers.

Also why would superman IN CHARACTER kill Naruto with Planet Shaking hits or Heat Vision? that does not sound in character at all.

#26 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio
#27 Edited by Bossmonster (2389 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: Easy, New Superman Keep up with and Tagged Flash who has already shown himself to be bustedly FTL. Him being able to find, read and understand every book on a medial process so that he could preform it before the papers that he caused to fall actually hit the ground. Far beyond Light seed since he'd have to travel the gold many times over to make sure he found them all.

I don't know where the who only able to dodge lightning bolt thing comes in. Everyone already knows that DC characters hold back way to much when it's not the biggest bad or entire planets on the line. So Clark's Max speed to avoid death is much higher than Mach 30

It is decided by fans that Ki in DBZ is a scientific measurable energy, thus not magic.

No, no. no.... this isn't ok. What are you measuring this off of? Please say powerlevels! That is what I want your response to be. That would be the best. Tell me that you are Scientifically measuring something based of numbers that where NEVER ever consistent. Base of Numbers that could be manipulated by the very people making up those numbers I.E raised and lowered to hide power. I really want to hear what DBZ fans have to say on this.

Botan not using magic. Funny, she says her broom stick is magic..... but ok. You would know better than I would. It's cool........

Also the whole Chi thing to Chackra is nothing solid proven.

So what? All this means is that it's not arguable. But to say that it's magic is just outrageous. What do you have to support than if it's has nothing supported or proven?

Botan does not use Magic, she as all underworlders use Spirit Energy. Humans use Spirit Energy and Holy Chi Energy. Demons use Demonic Energy. So how does this translate to Science? It doesn't, nothing in YYH Spirit, Holy, or demonic is scientificly explain or quantified.

You tell me "scientist" given that is what you'd need to be to make the bold statements you are claiming. Where is the years of research that has been done on the given subjects? Where are the test and results. There are none, unless you have them. If so, links. I want to read them. Though, I'm sure you only have them,if you have them for DBZ. And if that's the case, dude, links. I need to understand better.

I don't recall them having to be in character in the OP, but at the same time, I don't recall Naruto needing to be hit with a planet cracker to be billed. There isn't a jutsu created hotter than Clarks heat vision. A quick blast of that through the leg and a punt to the head after he falls and it's a wrap. Naruto is not anywhere near as fast as Clark he will never lay a hand on him in a million years will a million shaddow clone coming each day.

S class yusaked was beaten up by lesser strikers than clark and always always drains himself going crazy with his attacks. Clark will tank like he always tanks or dodge and Yusake will be beaten up.

Ichigo again is the only problem, if you want to call it that. Because he's a smarter fighter than the other two. But his speed isn't good enough. Clark can travel and search the world in seconds. Ichigo can not. He will be bean up too.

There no denying this.

#28 Posted by jamesisaacs (214 posts) - - Show Bio

Sorry guys i posted that Kenpachi pic in the wrong thread. I literally only just found out lol!

#29 Edited by Ancient_0f_Days (12410 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman should one shot nearly everyone.....I haven't seen anything to suggest these guys can take punches from a dude who benches the planet while running on 0 solar energy and shakes the planet to it's core from punching someone else....but IDK, I haven't kept up with these characters in many months, maybe something changed, maybe they all got as strong as durable as H'el or something else I don't know about...

Online
#30 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@bossmonster:

Easy, New Superman Keep up with and Tagged Flash who has already shown himself to be bustedly FTL. Him being able to find, read and understand every book on a medial process so that he could preform it before the papers that he caused to fall actually hit the ground. Far beyond Light seed since he'd have to travel the gold many times over to make sure he found them all.

I don't know where the who only able to dodge lightning bolt thing comes in. Everyone already knows that DC characters hold back way to much when it's not the biggest bad or entire planets on the line. So Clark's Max speed to avoid death is much higher than Mach 30

He tagged flash, and so has Deathstroke, Rogues that have Peak Human Speed, Green Lanterns, ect, and all of them prove Flash getting tag when he plays around is no speed feat.

I seen Superman fail to catch Bullets shooting at Civilians as well being tag by Lightning from Ocean Master.

His book reading feat is nowhere near Speed pf Lightning much less Speed of Light. That is a Hyper Sonic Speed Feat with Picture Memory feat.

Travel Speed Does Not Equal Combat Speed.

So what Speed Blitzing or awesome Combat Speed feat does Supes have proven in H2H combat?

No, no. no.... this isn't ok. What are you measuring this off of? Please say powerlevels! That is what I want your response to be. That would be the best. Tell me that you are Scientifically measuring something based of numbers that where NEVER ever consistent. Base of Numbers that could be manipulated by the very people making up those numbers I.E raised and lowered to hide power. I really want to hear what DBZ fans have to say on this.

The sad fact is Ki was measurable by Tech by most species ad devices of Tech origin were made to allow guys use Ki as a weapon, like Frieza's men.

I belive Ki should be magical, however SUPERMAN Fans say it is not magic. Ask the Superman Fanboys on this, not me.

Botan not using magic. Funny, she says her broom stick is magic..... but ok. You would know better than I would. It's cool........

Yeah she say Magic, to a human Genkai's powers are said to be .... what word was that? Magic! Whats your point? It is Spirit Energy that humans have no understanding of, thus magic!

So what? All this means is that it's not arguable. But to say that it's magic is just outrageous. What do you have to support than if it's has nothing supported or proven?

Did you ever went to school as a child? Or dropped out in 5th grade?

mag·ic

/ˈmajik/

Noun
The power of apparently influencing the course of events by using mysterious or supernatural forces.
Adjective
Used in magic or working by magic; having or apparently having supernatural powers: "a magic wand".
Synonyms
noun.sorcery - enchantment - witchcraft - spell - witchery
adjective.magical - enchanting

What is Spirit, Soul, and Demons again? What is it called? Supernatural? YES That is what it is, ****ing MAGIC!

LOL

You tell me "scientist" given that is what you'd need to be to make the bold statements you are claiming. Where is the years of research that has been done on the given subjects? Where are the test and results. There are none, unless you have them. If so, links. I want to read them. Though, I'm sure you only have them,if you have them for DBZ. And if that's the case, dude, links. I need to understand better.

The Fact the Word Supernatural is applied to Spirits, Demons, ect.... you have no argument here. It is not Science Fact that Demons, Spirits, and Chi exist and so far cannot and have not ever been proven by Scientific means. Thus Supernatural which in turn by Definition is Magic.

I don't recall them having to be in character in the OP, but at the same time, I don't recall Naruto needing to be hit with a planet cracker to be billed. There isn't a jutsu created hotter than Clarks heat vision. A quick blast of that through the leg and a punt to the head after he falls and it's a wrap. Naruto is not anywhere near as fast as Clark he will never lay a hand on him in a million years will a million shaddow clone coming each day.

On the Battle Forum Rules we assume they are in Character unless specified Blood Lusted or no Morals. Ever read the Battle Forum Rules? Wait... you answered that already.

S class yusaked was beaten up by lesser strikers than clark and always always drains himself going crazy with his attacks. Clark will tank like he always tanks or dodge and Yusake will be beaten up.

That is your view. I have not seen a legit Speed Feat in CC by Clark in new 52.

Ichigo again is the only problem, if you want to call it that. Because he's a smarter fighter than the other two. But his speed isn't good enough. Clark can travel and search the world in seconds. Ichigo can not. He will be bean up too.

Travel Speed equals Combat speed now? (Shakes head) Sure.......

There no denying this.

There is no denying your wrong on many things, we agree on this then.

#31 Edited by DeathSamurai (537 posts) - - Show Bio

Ki is by no means magic, but i would say chakra in lets say the avatar universe is not magic but in naruto it would be how else can u explain summoning a giant freaking frog. what ever ichigl uses may or may not be magic im no sure on that one.

#32 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

Ki is by no means magic, but i would say chakra in lets say the avatar universe is not magic but in naruto it would be how else can u explain summoning a giant freaking frog. what ever ichigl uses may or may not be magic im no sure on that one.

Pretty much. With Chakra I can summon giant monsters, heal the dead, and even trap people in their minds with illusions.

Sounds like Magic to me.

#33 Edited by CerberusPrime3k (950 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathsamurai: Summoning Techniques are Space-Time Ninjutsu which is manipulating the space time continuum to get something from point A to B in an instant basically.

In order to even make a summon with an Animal such as a Frog for example the person has to make a contract with that animal with the use of blood sign the contract scroll with said blood....boom... done. To summon they just need to offer a small amount of blood with the hand they signed with then the Animal is warped to them. The size of the Animal is dependent on how much Chakra one has in Naruto's case he has vast amount of Chakra, and thats why he can summon toads with ease.

@cadencev2: If you're refering to Granny Chiyo reviving Gaara she used her Life force to restore Gaara. For Genjutsu specifically Illusion based the caster manipulates the chakra flow in the person's Brain allowing them to feel what ever the caster wants them to feel.

#34 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@cerberusprime3k: Actually I referred to Pain bringing back 3 of his bodies back to life after they were killed.

#35 Edited by Bossmonster (2389 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2:

He tagged flash, and so has Deathstroke, Rogues that have Peak Human Speed, Green Lanterns, ect, and all of them prove Flash getting tag when he plays around is no speed feat.

I seen Superman fail to catch Bullets shooting at Civilians as well being tag by Lightning from Ocean Master.

His book reading feat is nowhere near Speed pf Lightning much less Speed of Light. That is a Hyper Sonic Speed Feat with Picture Memory feat.

Travel Speed Does Not Equal Combat Speed.

So what Speed Blitzing or awesome Combat Speed feat does Supes have proven in H2H combat?

Do not argue PIS with me. Because I will butcher ever single victory for DBZ with PIS. Flash playing is Flash playing. It does not change the outcome. Well all know that it was PIS that Goku defeats Kid Buu, but still people want to count that as a amazing win for him, but we can clear that right off the table along with his win over Freeza. So you pick how you want play this game. I'll shred that crap easy if you want to be foolish.

The sad fact is Ki was measurable by Tech by most species ad devices of Tech origin were made to allow guys use Ki as a weapon, like Frieza's men.

Are you talking about the scouters that never ever read a persons power level correctly??? No. That's dumb. That like a ruler with no units on it. How do you know how long it is. That outrageous and you know it. That is not science.

mag·ic

/ˈmajik/

Noun
The power of apparently influencing the course of events by using mysterious or supernatural forces.
Adjective
Used in magic or working by magic; having or apparently having supernatural powers: "a magic wand".
Synonyms
noun.sorcery - enchantment - witchcraft - spell - witchery
adjective.
magical - enchanting

Easy way to spot a moron is to look for the guy that talks but and then actually know what he is talking about.

Key words to look for.

The power of apparently influencing the course of events by using mysterious or supernatural forces.

mys·te·ri·ous

/məˈsti(ə)rēəs/Adjective

  1. Difficult or impossible to understand, explain, or identify.

By that logic advanced math is magical. Does that hurt Superman too??? You're talking about energies that people not only understand stand but master the application of. So how is it in any way mysterious if everyone is using it? Or is it just because Superman doesn't understand it. If that were the case if we could shot a bullet that he couldn't hear or see, he wouldn't understand it and it should kill him magically.

su·per·nat·u·ral

/ˌso͞opərˈnaCH(ə)rəl/

Adjective
(of a manifestation or event) Attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.
Noun
Manifestations or events considered to be of supernatural origin.
Synonyms
preternatural - unearthly - weird - miraculous

Pay close attention genius because this is a cool one. You want to know what is consider beyond scientific understanding and the laws of nature, most things Alien to the planet itself. Because they have not yet be scientifically studied. So what is magical to you could be everyday life to another life from. What we have in the the year 2013 would be considered witch craft in the 1700's. But it's no more magic now that it would have been then.

Conclusion, the world "magic" is a catch all for "Crap we don't understand yet." which could be anything Yet you would be as foolish as to try and use the literal definitions of the word to explain your argument when all it really does is shot you in the foot and beg the question why it effect superman at all.

But I'll do you a favor and explain that one for you too. Superman needs a weakness outside of the little green rock. So the only reason magic hurts him is because it is, in fact, Magical and cannot be explained. There for the argument can be made that it gets past his durability because it could possibly does so since we don't know exactly what it's doing.

The same cannot be said of any of the energies of DBZ, Naruto, Bleach or Yu Yu hakusho because all those energies have been studies and defined in their respective universe so they are certainly not magic.

The Fact the Word Supernatural is applied to Spirits, Demons, ect.... you have no argument here. It is not Science Fact that Demons, Spirits, and Chi exist and so far cannot and have not ever been proven by Scientific means. Thus Supernatural which in turn by Definition is Magic.

Yeah, I've already shot this down in the reply above. Re read it if you need to. Some points apply.

On the Battle Forum Rules we assume they are in Character unless specified Blood Lusted or no Morals. Ever read the Battle Forum Rules? Wait... you answered that already.

As I said, I don't recall naruto needing to be hit with that type of force to be killed. In character, Clark as hit visioned people and has hit them with the force to put them through a mountain. These type things alone are enough to kill Nauto. Did you even read the reply. Wait.....you answered that already.

That is your view. I have not seen a legit Speed Feat in CC by Clark in new 52.

That's your view and I haven't seen a legit one of those yet, so I guess there is nothing to say on this bit at all.

Travel Speed equals Combat speed now? (Shakes head) Sure.......

Ugh, that is such a lame response. But I'll shoot it down anyway. Lets say we compare the travel speed and combat speed of Ichigo and Superman. Clark could run around and avoid him, which is a legit battle tactic if you are somehow out matched by your opponent. All the while changing levels and blasting Heat vison and Ice breath. Both of which we know will effect and kill Ichigo. And given that Clarks travel speed is dwarfs his combats speed so harshly. there would be nothing Ichigo could do if Superman decided to do circles around the planet while taking shoots at him. So they do not have to be equal to be viable. In a battle, you have to learn to improvise.

There is no denying your wrong on many things, we agree on this then.

No, there are holes in every single thing that you said. Their energies are not magical, because they can be explained. (Unless you are sad and mean in the real world which would be very very silly to apply to a fictional character debate)
Clark does not have to be blood lusted to hit them way harder than they can tank. Not one of them is sitting with durability that just below planet cracking. Superman has been know to hit with the force to crush bust metals, crack mountains ect. A folly of these would kill any of the people against him.

Travel and combat do not have to be the same for them to be viable for use.

Every point you tried to make is false.

#36 Edited by CerberusPrime3k (950 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: Oh you're referring to King of Hell from the Naraka Path

It was capable of restoring their bodies to perfect condition by consuming them.

Well that overall is linked to the Rinnegan which itself in the Narutoverse if used properly the user is basically a "God" they have control over Life or Death, can manipulate gravity to a point where they can cast down meteors or by myth create the Moon, Also by myth the ability to control all creation, etc.

#37 Edited by PrinceAragorn1 (20317 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2:

That is your view. I have not seen a legit Speed Feat in CC by Clark in new 52.

That's your view and I haven't seen a legit one of those yet, so I guess there is nothing to say on this bit at all.

Travel Speed equals Combat speed now? (Shakes head) Sure.......

Ugh, that is such a lame response. But I'll shoot it down anyway. Lets say we compare the travel speed and combat speed of Ichigo and Superman. Clark could run around and avoid him, which is a legit battle tactic if you are somehow out matched by your opponent. All the while changing levels and blasting Heat vison and Ice breath. Both of which we know will effect and kill Ichigo. And given that Clarks travel speed is dwarfs his combats speed so harshly. there would be nothing Ichigo could do if Superman decided to do circles around the planet while taking shoots at him. So they do not have to be equal to be viable. In a battle, you have to learn to improvise.

I don't think you got the combat speed idea very well. If ichigo has higher combat speed that superman, not saying he does, then running circles around him is useless. Only attacks you can react to are those in your combat speed range. If ichigo sends off a gt, superman won't be able to react to it, (if his combat speed is lower, ok?). He can't run around and avoid something he can't react to.

And about the magic, only thing that's magic here is kidou, and ichigo doesn't use it.

#38 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@bossmonster: after reading most of your nonsense post you proven 3 things.

1) You are trying to engage a DBZ vs Superman debate somehow.... I have no clue where this came from.....

2) You have not proven a SINGLE Combat Speed Feat. I never argued for Ichigo either, Yuske is the only guy in this match I know, so your trying to compare Ichigo and Superman speed to me is just a waste of breath.

3) You failed high school as your trying to legit argue the Soul and Spirit are not magical in nature..... what a lame attempt to try debate Superman cannot be harm by Yuske or Ichigo here.... Lame Attempt.....

With this in mind I think you have nothing left to offer here.

#39 Posted by Bossmonster (2389 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2:

1)No. That's just a stupid thing to say. I left a rebuttal to the things you posted. If you don't get it, that on you.

2)As I thought you don't know anything you're talking about. How can you argue at all if you don't know about all of it. I'm current on each character. So the lamest thing yet is your admission that you don't know anything about this.

3)You are truly a moron if you don't get that things that are magical, based of the definition you posted are only such because they cannot be explained. Souls and Spirits have nothing to do with what I've said. I mean Chi energy(DBZ) Chakra(Naruto) Spirital Pressure(Bleach) and Spirit Energy(Yu Yu Hakusho) in their respective universes are studied and understood to the point where technology can be build around it and it can be trained at taught. This simple fact would lead you to believe someone put "science" to it. But clearly you don't get that and want to apply a real word standard to this debate which is just dumb.

You failed yourself in this.

We're done here.

#40 Edited by Bossmonster (2389 posts) - - Show Bio

No, this is something I can actually debate because it was thought out. Kidou is in fact magic. However, as you said Ichigo does not use it. As I said before it made no sense to suggest that his other attacks were magic based given that they have actually magical attacks. Thank you sir.

In regards to speed. No, I understood the differences between the two speed types. The point I was trying to make was that either were a useful in combat. An example of this: Let's say Ichigo as a travel speed of mach 20 but a combat speed of mach 60. His short burst are awesome and that's great for combat. Now lets saw that superman has a combat speed of Mach 32 but a remarkable travel speed of just under light speed.

What I'm trying to express here is that should superman decide to just run circles around the planet and shoot at Ichigo on each loop, that's traveling (Though combative in nature.) a Combat speed of mach 60 would simply not be fast enough to above this. It would be a stretch to say that he could get out of the way more than once. On the second time around, Superman would tag him. From there it would just be down hill until Superman could just stand there and blast heat vision

Does that make sense?

#41 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (20317 posts) - - Show Bio

No, this is something I can actually debate because it was thought out. Kidou is in fact magic. However, as you said Ichigo does not use it. As I said before it made no sense to suggest that his other attacks were magic based given that they have actually magical attacks. Thank you sir.

In regards to speed. No, I understood the differences between the two speed types. The point I was trying to make was that either were a useful in combat. An example of this: Let's say Ichigo as a travel speed of mach 20 but a combat speed of mach 60. His short burst are awesome and that's great for combat. Now lets saw that superman has a combat speed of Mach 32 but a remarkable travel speed of just under light speed.

What I'm trying to express here is that should superman decide to just run circles around the planet and shoot at Ichigo on each loop, that's traveling (Though combative in nature.) a Combat speed of mach 60 would simply not be fast enough to above this. It would be a stretch to say that he could get out of the way more than once. On the second time around, Superman would tag him. From there it would just be down hill until Superman could just stand there and blast heat vision

Does that make sense?

One: His combat speed is mach sixty. So even if he is travelling at near light speed, his shooting and dodging speed is still stuck at the same level. And if ichigo fires a getsuga at the loop, first, it will hit, as in the time taken by getsuga to cross the width of loop, superman will at least circle once. And two, he will not be able to avoid it, as his dodging speed is far outclassed by the speed at which he's currently travelling, making him unable to react..

#42 Posted by Bossmonster (2389 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1: I was making those numbers up for the example. Their speeds are vastly different than that, I'm sure. Or rather, I'm not entirely sure what Ichigo's Max speed is in combat given he's going through another level change and such which is really getting lame. I hope the series ends soon....

I respect the point you made about the dodging. However, I still think that is debatable. Reason being is, if he has to above pitfalls and objects while traveling (some moving, some not) I don't see it being much different than dodging an attack. That is to say, I recognize there is a difference, but I don't think that it is major. Never the less, I see you're point, I just think it's debatable.

Lastly, I do not think Ichigo with a combat speed of mach 60 would be able to react to something that's moving just under the speed of light. Nor do I think that a high travel speed would prevent or rather slow the rate at which a laser is fired.

If I were being completely honest, I don't think that travel/combat speed are different enough to warrant the distinction that they are given, but that's my person opinion. Those people travelling do have to reaction to their surrounding, otherwise they would just be plowing through everything in their path.

Either way, hopefully that explained better what I was trying to say.

#43 Edited by Sylvain (1640 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman

#44 Edited by PrinceAragorn1 (20317 posts) - - Show Bio

@bossmonster: obviously, I know you were making the numbers up for discussion's sake. That's why I continued explaining those. Next is, superman doesn't always travel near light speed, sure, he dodges things, but when he goes close to light speed, he generally blasts through everything in his path, and they take it for moving in straight line purposes, like bumping into moon, or majestic going into sea. (it's still the best thing I saw in new 52 lol) The speeds at which he regularly fights are not very high, from what I've gathered. But, he can accelerate very fast. That's the reason why the combat speed is more problematic in case of superman. Travel speed and combat speed are extremely close in anime, though.

Now, about dodging lasers. Many people can dodge things, like batman dodging bullets. Does it mean that he's moving in speed comparable to the bullets? no. Though it shows that he's very fast, doesn't mean he's a bullet timer. Obviously, he will have a tougher time dodging lasers, but he still will, because he's reacting to the firer's reflexes, not the fired object. Superman dodging lasers is, at least imo, combination of aim dodging and good combat speed..

#45 Posted by NightwingX (124 posts) - - Show Bio

team wins

#46 Posted by monarch_prime (420 posts) - - Show Bio

Once again,Anime looses.

#47 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (20317 posts) - - Show Bio

Once again,Anime looses.

Not the best explained argument I've seen..

#48 Posted by NightwingX (124 posts) - - Show Bio

Once again,Anime looses.

best argument i've ever seen.

do u even have full knowledge of the characters?

#49 Posted by Simon_the_digger (3440 posts) - - Show Bio

Ichigo and Nayrooto die here, don't know much about Yusuke so I can't say who wins this.

#50 Posted by hart7668 (2294 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't follow Bleach, so no comment there. I haven't seen Yu Yu Hakisho in a long time, so no comment there.

I can totally accept the fact that chakra in the Narutoverse is magic with all the summoning and illusions and whatnot.

Even if New 52 Superman was at the exact same speed as everyone else, we still have to take into account for his planetary strength, although durability is not fully explored.

Anyways, I'll leave this discussion with this: Superman has traveled from (I think...) Pluto to Earth in around two minutes (Red Hood and the Outlaws no. 17?). In Action Comics no. 12 he read a helluva lotta books in 5 mins. Normally all of Superman's speed feats are lumped into one category counting for everything, including combat because however fast Superman can move, Superman can speed up his senses as well, as we've seen in the aforementioned Action Comics reference. Reading every medical text ever published in 5 mins is pretty dang impressive. Now, I know that is a bit of a stretch and there are other showings to counteract that (like getting tagged and knocked out by lightning in Throne of Atlantis), so I can't argue that what I've put out here is absolute or anything.