Superman(bloodlusted) vs The Avengers

My friend believes that a bloodlusted superman can beat all of the avengers by himself. So I felt the need to take it to the Vine. What do you guys think?

@lelouchvibritannia: The standard Avengers roster? Hulk, Thor, Iron Man, Cap etc I'm assuming, you may need to specify since almost every hero in Marvel has been an Avenger at some point.

Standard team Avengers including spiderman.

this is just superman vs thor and hulk. the rest don't matter. he could blitz the rest. if superman used his speed correctly, he could win this pretty easily. if he fought like a comic book, he could win or lose with some difficulty.

Standard team? You need a roster list. Spider-man wouldn't be of any real use unless he has prep. or something.

No prep dude. Roster including the hulk, thor, Spidey, cap, Hawkeye, quicksilver, scarlet witch, warmachine and falcon. Wouldn't a bloodlusted superman get curbstomped?

Avengers stomp hard. Both Hulk and Thor could go toe to toe with him solo. Scarlet Witch is also not to be discredited here.

@lelouchvibritannia:

Can a bloodlusted Superman beat all of the avengers by himself?

No.

Thor would defeat him alone due to superior strength, durability, and versatility.

Don't listen to anyone here who says anything about "speed blitz".

All avengers ever? The numbers doom superman. People like Tony and Black panther aren't just gonna stand in line and wait for superman to take his turn killing them. They've put down bigger threats than a Bloodlusted Superman.

@lemonsauce: that's how I feel. I honestly don't think he stands a chance in hell.

With standard roster he could do it quite easily, people like to discredit speed blitz because they think its not fair and it usually doesn't happen in comics, but if supes is truly bloodlusted then he blitzes and phases all of their brains out at over a million times the speed of light and none of the avengers can stop him

I'd say avengers for a thor primarily, hulk secondarily and with tertiary assistance from scarlet witch. The rest are fodder, but would probably survive because the first three would handle supes.

no, just the standard roster. the problem is the standard roster constantly changes.

@panthersrock:

" A million times the speed of light"

LOL

@lelouchvibritannia: A bloodlusted Superman would probably win. I will admit that I am a bit biased as Superman is my favorite character, however I am willing to argue for The Avengers squad. The problem for Supes is that he will have to choose who he kills first due to the numerical advantage The Avengers have. If he's smart he'll go after Scarlet Witch, Hulk, and Thor first, in that order. If he doesn't then Scarlet Witch will have enough time to work a seriously powerful spell that will mess him up. Hulk will just get angrier, and consequently more powerful, the more of his friends that he sees die. Hulk would be able to match Supes if Hulk is the last one standing. Thor would be able to take some serious blows before going down. The rest are canon fodder to buy those three some time. Knowing Supes's personality he will go at the big guns first so he'll put Hulk and Thor down first then go after whoever attacks afterwards. Knowing Supes power levels are higher by a wide margin than those that are left, he would splatter them. Superman wins 7/10

Read any Superman vs Thor thread or Superman vs Hulk thread and you will see there is no consensus. He kills everyone else quickly except Scarlet Witch maybe. Good point about Hulk though. If Superman kills anyone Hulk will get really angry and powerful. Enough to make it difficult fo Superman to beat Thor.

@lemonsauce: hasn't he gone near that speed before?

@lelouchvibritannia:Your friend is quite correct---a bloodlusted Superman could INDEED defeat the Avengers roster you mentioned (and to paraphrase a previous post, "Don't listen to anyone here who tries to downplay or dismiss a speed blitz"). No matter what version of Superman one uses, during the last 50 years, each one has FTL speed. In DC Comics Presents issue 29, The Silver Age Superman, in fact, moved so fast while he was trying to save his cousin Kara (Supergirl) that he was breaking dimensions, shattered the bonds of eternity, and was about to pass into Heaven and severely disrupt reality before The Spectre stopped him at the last second; Post crisis Superman speed feats include being shown to be able to out race a photon to its target in the double sized "JLA: Heavens Ladder",and move and see/perceive in nano seconds during a battle he and his JLA team mates had with Felix Faust, and instantly match Wally West's speed so they could have a private talk-every one around them were like statues; and N52 Superman became the first person to strike the FTL Barry Allen Flash (seconds after he proclaimed he hadn't EVER been touched) and yanked his cousin Supergirl from his apartment to the park miles away in "half an instant". No one on the Avengers roster you mentioned has COMBAT superspeed like ANY version of Superman (Thor has TRAVEL, not COMBAT super speed via his hammer)---so before any of them can even THINK about reacting to Kal, he would have reduced the less durable members to blood splattered puddles, and on his way to giving the remaining ones dozens upon dozens of blows that they couldn't stop from receiving. In a SCRIPTED battle-where a writer who doesn't want to portray a 3 to 5 panel fight-this doesn't happen. In an ACTUAL battle-where there is no writer to ARTIFICIALLY prevent Superman from using his devastating speed advantage-there would be nothing to stop things from concluding in this way.

No.

Superman bulldozes them.

@theonewhoknows said:

By far the biggest bait I have ever laid my eyes on, well done. I'll bite. Now just show me literally one scan of supers actually fighting at FTL speeds.

On topic:

New 52 supes would get stomped, easily....Bloodlust does absolutely nothing for him but make him get into a brawl with much more durable and harder hitters.

@theonewhoknows: @peterparkerjr: Not in the slightest. If she means that roster she listed, Superman loses. Unless he sun-bathed, which he didn't, he would get defeated. Speed blitz is only affective on people who have bad reaction feats. The instance you used of him grabbing Kara isn't combat speed, because he traveled with her. There was no fighting in that sequence, so not a valid feat. As for him beating them into puddles before they can react, you are wrong on that by far. Both Thor and the Hulk can not only keep up with him, but can, and will, beat him. If he was playing it smart (which he never does when enraged) he would use his heat vision to take out the fodder, so that the strong ones can be beaten quickly without interference. Of course, even this would be difficult as the strong ones are very powerful. There is no stalemate or win for him, Avengers take it 7/10.

Yeah, as long as he is busy with thor + hulk, scarlet witch would easily be the deciding factor here, depending on whether she doesn't want to kill supes or not bloodlusted supes would basically bullish, going for hulk first because he is more muscular. I do not think he would stop to molecular scan all of them, so be would not go for scarlet first, the other avengers are basically just cannon fodder, with thor and hulk being RPGs.

If he bullrushes him, quicksilver will know what he looks like to a normal human.

The problem is superman being bloodlusted here, he could probably blitz all of the avengers. That includes slowdinson.

@lelouchvibritannia: which version of the Avengers or is Avengers in general?

Man, the Superman wank is strong in this thread. Avengers crubstomps him.

As long as it isn't RKT, WBH, or HOM Scarlett Witch, Superman will beat any one of them. But he can't solo any version of Thor, Hulk and Scarlett Witch at once.

Is this comics versions or MCU? I ask because the roster used is only standard for the MCU... Bloodlusted Supes definitely can win, though comics Scarlett Witch with Thor could pose serious opposition.

Hmmm...

Superman probably.

@crushyourenemies: @leo-343: @pipxeroth: @battle123axe: @iconrocket123: @cosmic_lantern:Cosmic Lantern, I really pondered on whether to respond to you, because anyone that would come into this thread and claim that The Man Of Steel, who in his WEAKEST, N52 version has the abilities he has---speed (FTL) durability (withstand, then power out of a Black Hole and fly from another solar system to ours for SIXTY DAYS STRAIGHT shrugging off the pressure, vacuum, and lethal radiations of outer space with no solar re charge) and strength (bench press the equivalent of the Earth for FIVE DAYS straight whlie underground with no sun, and ask "Is this all you got")---would be "stomped, EASILY", foreshadows a predisposition that discussing this matter with you would be pointless. I could see if you honestly believe he would lose, but "STOMPED, EASILY"? But it could be a case of your just using hyperbole, and/or that you are honestly not aware of what Superman is capable of. So I will give you the benefit of the doubt and state some things, and see what you do. In the Comicvine.com thread "CaV Sover-New52 Superman vs TGW-King Hyperion", scans and descriptions of Superman FTL combat feats are displayed and discussed. And his super speed battles with the likes of Zod, Faora, Orion, and Barry Allen Flash can be viewed if one googles up "images of New52 Superman speed feats" and clicking on any of the numerous scans that one wishes to view that pop up on screen. There is no doubt that N52 Supes has GREATER than FTL TRAVEL speed, as evidenced by him appearing a split second behind Starfire, Red Hood, and the Outlaws when they, trying to escape Kal, teleported from near Pluto to Earth while simultaneously using Tamaranian cloaking technology in Red Hood And The Outlaws issue 14; this means he is so fast that he kept up with them even though he had to use a nano second to get around tech that was meant to hide them from him! If he only uses a QUARTER of that speed for battle, it would still be at FTL level---and FAR too fast for any of the Avengers mentioned to deal with. For that matter, Supes moving at a bit faster than the speed of SOUND might be too much for them.

Iconrocket123, neither Thor nor the Hulk have the origin or power set to legitimitely have the COMBAT and REFLEX super speed needed to handle Superman (Thor has great TRAVEL speed due to the hammer). Thor-while missing them BADLY-has stated OUT LOUD that the likes of Matt Murdock and Wolverine were faster than him; comic creators/editors/writers Tom Bresvoot and Kurt Busiek have put IN WRITING that Thor wasn't as fast as Quicksilver and even the likes of Wolverine in this area; and writers ranging from the Roy Thomas to the Jim Shooter eras to NOW have written Thor this way, rightfully so. So any stories depicting otherwise is PIS. It's the same thing with the Hulk----it's "The madder Hulk gets, the STRONGER-not FASTER-Hulk gets", so any story depicting otherwise is even WORSE complete and utter PIS. Incidently, the Superman/Kara feat IS valid. If Kal can travel from his apartment to the park MILES away "in an instant", you don't think that he can-in a space of, at BEST a few YARDS-move from one person, pop their skull like a balloon, then move to the next until none but Thor and Hulk remain in EVEN LESS time? Are you SERIOUSLY arguing that? Maybe in a SCRIPTED STORY that can happen, where a writer can artificially create that scenario---but in an ACTUAL battle, NOTHING would prevent Superman, who is BLOODLUSTED in this battle from carrying this grim tactic out. Remember, this is a BATTLE forum, not an I'll Ignore Things I Don't Want To Concede Because I "Like" The Avengers Better" Forum, so try to be reasonable.

CrushYourEnemies, Leo-343, Pipxeroth, and Battle123axe, I know I'll probably regret responding, but stranger things have happened on these boards, so I might be pleasantly suprised here.

Who knows, Cosmic Lantern might AT LEAST back off the whole "Superman will be "STOMPED EASILY" notion.

That's cool and all but none of those borderline high-end feats are consistent, new 52 supes is a glass cannon compared to his previous incarnations honestly. If we want to just throw around travel speed I assure you Thor has equal footing in the area. If you're simply saying supes is going to be landing hundreds of blows a second im asking for proof, he has a terrible track record when bloodlusted. He even lost to Diana twice while bloodlusted, ontop of bleeding like a pig from being grazed by a magical tiara. Until you show me some durability feats insinuating he could take more than three blows from Mjolnir, you're reaching.

Lets not even begin on what would happen if he blitzed hulk first, even minor characters like spiderman can setup webs that would stall him for a bit.

The Avengers.

The avengers all the way

@theonewhoknows: the reason why publican travel at at least hypersonic speeds, is because of muscle strength. He has never shown to be as fast as supes or flash, but because of muscle strength be can move and react at several times the speed of sound.

@battle123axe: @cosmic_lantern:Cosmic Lantern, I would think the "Survive a Black Hole/Immediately afterwards fly sixty days straight through space" feats would be proof enough of Superman's toughness, but there is plenty more: During the "Superman: Doomed" story arc, withstood POINT BLANK KRYPTONITE bombs-detonated by Metallo-followed by thick, lingering Kryptonite radiation clouds; withstood the magic tinged blows of Shazam (Captain Marvel) and of course returned them in kind; after initially taking damage, went blow for blow with H'el, a clone being who was as powerful as Kal, Superboy, and Supergirl combined; while sun starved, took a two on one, vicious ambush beat down from two freshly SUN AMPED Kryptonians, Zod and Faora, then shortly after while completely solar deprived, withstood a GROUND ZERO nuke he was locked in with; took a point blank barrage of Black Hole bullets from the government; and the list goes on and on (there's more, but I have more to discuss and I'm getting tired of typing). Keep in mind, some of these incredible durability feats ocurred when Kal was FAR from at his best, yet he withstood trauma that would have obliterated many powerful beings in their top condition. So I'm not "reaching" at all---It would defy logic to claim that Thor's hammer (which is a devastating weapon, no doubt) is SOOOO much more formidable than ALL the examples I've given that a fully charged Supes couldn't stand up to "more than three blows from Mjolnir" (you act like Superman is made of tissue paper or something)! And that is assuming that, given Kal's superior speed, Thor would even get the CHANCE to implement his hammer. Considering the several examples I gave of him using super speed in fights in my last post (including the Flash) I don't know why you seem to think it's not likely he would use it while bloodlusted; don't willfullly ignore information because you apparently don't "like" it shows the Avengers could lose-not cool.

And as for using Wonder Woman to-apparently-lowball Superman because he "even ("EVEN", as if it's some kind of shame) lost to Diana---on top of bleeding like a stuck pig from being grazed by a magical tiara"---Wonder Woman is in Superman's power class, so there is no "shame" involved here at all. For the record, the Man Of Steel was not "grazed"---the tiara nearly slit his throat. And it's not suprising the damage it did---it is made of the same unbreakable material her bracelets are, it is impossibly sharp, and it has not only cut, but BEHEADED the likes of fellow God and Ares relative Deimos in Wonder Woman issue 5, as well as a ressurrected Medusa who was nearly as combat skilled as Diana (managing to stab the Amazon during their battle) strong, and durable (until the tiara came into play). So the tiara is not just some harmless trinket-it is a deadly weapon that has damaged and KILLED some EXTREMELY durable individuals. And since Wonder Woman's combat feats include defeating Captain Marvel when he was bloodlusted and trying to kill her (War Of The Gods issue 1) withstanding an onslaught from Ares and defeating him in his own realm where he is functionally omnipotent (Wonder Woman issue 6) putting away-in brutal fashion-Genosyde, a rampaging, almost impervious to pain beserker who ran through a JLA team that at the time included Green Lantern, Firestorm and Red Tornado; and defeating Zoom after taking THREE CONSECUTIVE IMPS from him that, according to Diana felt worse than blows from Superman (in the crossover issues Flash 219 and Wonder Woman 216)---her beating Superman is a testimony to her power, and not that he's sub par because a "not top tier character" like her beat him (although she really didn't quite beat him---this fight was more a stalemate, as she was extremely bruised, battered and spent at this point). So despite you trying to ignore or dismiss the speed and durability feats of Superman, or insinuating that Superman's losing to a top tier being like Wonder Woman diminishes Kal, or anything else you may try---NOTHING can stop the fact that due to his overwhelming strength, durabillity, and especially FTL speed---ANY variation of Superman can indeed defeat the Avengers roster listed in this thread.

Battle123ax3, I'm not sure who you are referring to ("publican"?)---but if you are talking about Thor and Hulk, I've already discussed the why and how of why they do not have the COMBAT speed to deal with Superman. If you are talking about the Hulk, even if -legitimitely-his "muscles---let him move several times the speed of sound" (they don't, but for fun and giggles let's say they did)---"several times the speed of SOUND" is STILL too slow to react to a man that can move the speed of LIGHT. So no matter what, the point is moot.

@cosmic_lantern: @battle123axe: @theonewhoknows: indeed,none of the avengers could touch,even perceive Post Crisis Superman

Bloodlusted? Everyone gets punched. From that only Thor and Hulk survive. The rest of the battle is epic, but regardless the Avengers will need a new roster by the end of it.

@theonewhoknows: sorry autocorrect is messing with me.

Avengers.

After Thor and Hulk see all of their comrades get obliterated they are both going to be blood lusted, and take down Superman in one hell of a fight.

@theonewhoknows: have you read my posts? I did not make any insinuations that hulk would be able to touch, or even perceive superman. I simply stated that he is not slow and can move very quickly when he wants to. Hulk legitimately has feats to sow he can move at super sonic speeds, especially in the indestructible hulk storyline.

Sorry I can't post feats, I am on my tablet and am on vacation from writing, so I don't have a computer anywhere near at the moment. Expect posts sometime next 2 weeks.

@theonewhoknows: good post and excellent rebuttal. Hulk and thor arguably have durability in the same league as superman.

The only way I see the avengers winning is if superman decides to have another doomsday incident and didn't use His speed, but that scenario is unlikely, since this isn't an incident where the end result is already determined.

That is the major advantage the average justice leaguer has over the average avenger, speed. The average justice leaguer could casually speedblitz the average avenger (with some exceptions), who, if speed were equalized, could stalemate or even beat them in a fight.

Superman super-stomps them. Most of them die in a femto second.

@reno117: Never, ever. CLARIFY how.

Bloodlusted Superman could beat them, if it weren't for Hawkeye who would solo. Nice name btw.