#1 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

Spock and Kaine.

VS

Peter, Miles, Jessica, and Kitty Pryde.

Battle on New York Roof Tops. Who Wins.

#2 Posted by jashro44 (23704 posts) - - Show Bio

Ultimate Kitty has to turn tangible to attack right?

#3 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Yes. However Gases and Breathing are still a factor for her. Also Mechanical Electrical stuff go boom to her touch.

#4 Posted by jashro44 (23704 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: She doesn't sound like too much of a problem then. If Ock uses his spider-sense he should be able to strike her when she is tangible. I think the 616 duo can win.

#5 Edited by Bronze_Surfer (2985 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: Wait.... I thought kitty was an x-men. and what are feats for the ultimate spider family?

#6 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@cadencev2: She doesn't sound like too much of a problem then. If Ock uses his spider-sense he should be able to strike her when she is tangible. I think the 616 duo can win.

Just to gauge her, she is pretty skill in H2H.

She is tough enough to help Parker take down Super Human threats, like these Banshee amped humans.

She can Jam any tech with her Phasing.

And when upset she can get nasty with her powers....

#7 Posted by jashro44 (23704 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: That last scan is the only concern IMO. That could be an example of her attacking while intangible...If she can fight while intangible she solos (unless they blitz her), if not then the 616 team win. The only real issue is Kaine does have issues fighting children it seems so he might be a bit off in this fight.

#8 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: Wait.... I thought kitty was an x-men. and what are feats for the ultimate spider family?

She was Peters girlfriend and sidekick for many issues.

#9 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio
#10 Posted by Mezmero (969 posts) - - Show Bio

Superior Spidey kidnaps Ultimate aunt May and forces her to marry him thus making Peter Parker his own uncle. While everyone is distracted by pure disgust Kaine sneaks up and kills them. With prep team 1 might win but they're out numbered by a more diverse set of powers and skills. Team 2 would win unfairly.

#11 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@mezmero said:

Superior Spidey kidnaps Ultimate aunt May and forces her to marry him thus making Peter Parker his own uncle. While everyone is distracted by pure disgust Kaine sneaks up and kills them. With prep team 1 might win but they're out numbered by a more diverse set of powers and skills. Team 2 would win unfairly.

I like the scenario..... Ultimate Aunt May is not bad looking as a older lady btw. However how would Kaine sneak up on 3 Spider Sense users? Would Spock pork Ultimate Aunt May? He is a old guy himself... questions....

#12 Edited by Strider92 (16758 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2 said:

I like the scenario..... Ultimate Aunt May is not bad looking as a older lady btw. However how would Kaine sneak up on 3 Spider Sense users? Would Spock pork Ultimate Aunt May? He is a old guy himself... questions....

Kaine doesn't seem to trip off peoples spider-sense. He's punked both Ben and Peter due to the fact they couldn't pick him up. The same way Eddie Venom didn't trip Peter's spider-sense.

#13 Edited by Veitha (3362 posts) - - Show Bio

Kitty can become also super-strong and invulnerable, right?

#14 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@veitha said:

Kitty can become also super-strong and invulnerable, right?

Not that I know off.... I posted her powers and skills above.

@cadencev2 said:

I like the scenario..... Ultimate Aunt May is not bad looking as a older lady btw. However how would Kaine sneak up on 3 Spider Sense users? Would Spock pork Ultimate Aunt May? He is a old guy himself... questions....

Kaine doesn't seem to trip off peoples spider-sense. He's punked both Ben and Peter due to the fact they couldn't pick him up. The same way Eddie Venom didn't trip Peter's spider-sense.

Is that new Kain of Classic Kaine. Because Classic Kaine had different powers and stats.

#15 Posted by Veitha (3362 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: I read somewhere that she can change her density, pretty much like Vision. I'll look for scans

#16 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@veitha said:

@cadencev2: I read somewhere that she can change her density, pretty much like Vision. I'll look for scans

If ya fine any let me know. I have all the Ultimate stuff now and reading the rest of Ultimate Spider Man till his death at the moment.

#17 Posted by Strider92 (16758 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: It is classic Kaine so I guess we'll have to wait until issue 21 of Scarlet Spider to confirm this. However Ben didn't trip off Peter's spider-sense either due to their similair powers. Spider-clones have consistently flown under the radar when it comes to spider-sense. Even run-off the mill fodder ones Kaine was one-shotting during the clone-saga weren't tripping of Ben's or Pete's spider-sense.

#18 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: It is classic Kaine so I guess we'll have to wait until issue 21 of Scarlet Spider to confirm this. However Ben didn't trip off Peter's spider-sense either due to their similair powers. Spider-clones have consistently flown under the radar when it comes to spider-sense. Even run-off the mill fodder ones Kaine was one-shotting during the clone-saga weren't tripping of Ben's or Pete's spider-sense.

Ahhh but a valid Argument can be made of the fact Spider Clones are seen the same as Peter due to being clones.

Will Miles sense register this? Or Ultimate Jessica?

There sense could still go off since they are genetically not the same.

#19 Posted by laflux (17538 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2 Spider-Sense isn't going to be useful on both sides- since in Spider-Men Miles was invisible to Peter's and as @strider92 pointed out, clones and people with powers closely allied to Peter tend not to set of his SS (Ezekiel is another good example). Kaine and Ock also have issues attacking Children. TBH I can see an Ultimate Win, if Ult Pete, his clone and his former girlfriend can keep the two busy (though not win), while Miles goes invisible, and Venom strikes one of them. From there I don't see either Ock or Kaine fighting off all of them, especially with standard morals.

If SpOck still had Peter's Memories, then the I'd say they would have a greater chance of winning. Spider-Men is cannon, so SpOck would be wise to Miles stinging attack, which he uses rather frequently, and considering he used it to defeat Spider-Man (PIS or not is for another debate), why wouldn't he use it again?

Furthermore, we'll have to wait until Scarlet Spider issue 20, but my feelings are that Scarlet Spider and SpOck are not going to work nearly as well together as the Ultimate Team, which will also play a factor.

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#20 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux: No where.... in that ramble of a speech, did you mention Kitty here. At all. Shame on you.

#21 Posted by laflux (17538 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux: No where.... in that ramble of a speech, did you mention Kitty here. At all. Shame on you.

@laflux said:

. TBH I can see an Ultimate Win, if Ult Pete, his clone and his former girlfriend can keep the two busy (though not win), while Miles goes invisible, and Venom strikes one of them. From there I don't see either Ock or Kaine fighting off all of them, especially with standard morals.

I like ultimate Kitty. She's saved Peter's life before as well, when Ult GG threw him out of a skyscraper in Death of a Goblin. Don't under-estimate my Ultimate Knowledge D:< *shakes fist*

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#22 Posted by dondave (38789 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux said:

@cadencev2 Spider-Sense isn't going to be useful on both sides- since in Spider-Men Miles was invisible to Peter's and as @strider92 pointed out, clones and people with powers closely allied to Peter tend not to set of his SS (Ezekiel is another good example). Kaine and Ock also have issues attacking Children. TBH I can see an Ultimate Win, if Ult Pete, his clone and his former girlfriend can keep the two busy (though not win), while Miles goes invisible, and Venom strikes one of them. From there I don't see either Ock or Kaine fighting off all of them, especially with standard morals.

If SpOck still had Peter's Memories, then the I'd say they would have a greater chance of winning. Spider-Men is cannon, so SpOck would be wise to Miles stinging attack, which he uses rather frequently, and considering he used it to defeat Spider-Man (PIS or not is for another debate), why wouldn't he use it again?

Furthermore, we'll have to wait until Scarlet Spider issue 20, but my feelings are that Scarlet Spider and SpOck are not going to work nearly as well together as the Ultimate Team, which will also play a factor.

QFT

#23 Edited by laflux (17538 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave: thanks ^.^ Though it wouldn't be completely silly to put a bet on SpOck attempting a boob shot on Kitty >:D

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#24 Posted by Mezmero (969 posts) - - Show Bio

@mezmero said:

Superior Spidey kidnaps Ultimate aunt May and forces her to marry him thus making Peter Parker his own uncle. While everyone is distracted by pure disgust Kaine sneaks up and kills them. With prep team 1 might win but they're out numbered by a more diverse set of powers and skills. Team 2 would win unfairly.

I like the scenario..... Ultimate Aunt May is not bad looking as a older lady btw. However how would Kaine sneak up on 3 Spider Sense users? Would Spock pork Ultimate Aunt May? He is a old guy himself... questions....

Superior Spidey would set up Spider Sense dampeners ahead of time and also construct a high tech helmet for himself and Kaine to block the effect. Obviously joking but again this comes down to how much prep time is given.

#25 Posted by Chibio (920 posts) - - Show Bio

The 616 Spider-Men for sure. Their physical advantages are simply too vast. Combine that with their ruthlessness and the who-cares-attitude and the Ultimate Spider-Boys will be in a world of trouble, before they even realize that they're dealing with some serious business. Especially if Spider-Ock and Kaine have their current equipment (the Spider-Bots, the Invisibility suits and so on).

The question is also if Kaine or even Spider-Ock would trigger the spider-sense from the others.

#26 Posted by dondave (38789 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux said:

@dondave: thanks ^.^ Though it wouldn't be completely silly to put a bet on SpOck attempting a boob shot on Kitty >:D

Lol

#27 Edited by laflux (17538 posts) - - Show Bio

@chibio said:

The 616 Spider-Men for sure. Their physical advantages are simply too vast. Combine that with their ruthlessness and the who-cares-attitude and the Ultimate Spider-Boys will be in a world of trouble, before they even realize that they're dealing with some serious business. Especially if Spider-Ock and Kaine have their current equipment (the Spider-Bots, the Invisibility suits and so on).

The question is also if Kaine or even Spider-Ock would trigger the spider-sense from the others.

Don't really see how the Spider-Bots would be useful in a random encounter, as they only really survey the area for crime IIRC. SpOck and Kaine issues hurting children, in fact SpOck berated Peter for risking the life of a Child to better himself in Superior Spider-Man 9 (one of the things that drove Spider-Fans mad). Kaine likewise has a soft spot for kids as well, judging by his treatment of Aracley and his sub-par performance against Kraven's daughter. They are not going to be fighting there hardest against the ultimate crew, that much is certain. Kaine going invisible is a valid point, but so can Miles.

Furthermore, maybe I'm misreading your tone, but it sounds like your underselling the Ultimate Crew. First off Miles already beat the real Parker, who is more skilled and experienced than SpOck (Not saying it was an accurate depiction of the battle), but it lends to the idea Miles can hang with a Morals on SpOck. Also, Miles, Peter, Kitty and Jess have been in alot of "Serious Business", especially when the age of the people. Peter died fighting the sinister six, resulting in Jess losing her brother, Kitty lost fellow X-Men during the events of Ultimatum, and as the New Ult Spider-Man, Miles has already been racked over guilt that he didn't help Peter in his final fight verses the Sinister Six, killed his Uncle by Accident in a fight, and taken abuse from Jessica for carrying on the mantle of Spider-Man. And he's still continued, even after Ult Cap America, explicitly told him not to.

Kaine and SpOck won't, but their Spider-Sense's won't be triggered either (Kaine doesn't even have a Spider-Sense to begin with).

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#28 Posted by Veitha (3362 posts) - - Show Bio

@veitha said:

@cadencev2: I read somewhere that she can change her density, pretty much like Vision. I'll look for scans

If ya fine any let me know. I have all the Ultimate stuff now and reading the rest of Ultimate Spider Man till his death at the moment.

I read so in more than a wiki and I found this images where she seems to be using super-strenght and she looks also invulnerable.

http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz254/Chaos_Alfa/ultimate_spiderman_1_012.jpg

http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz254/Chaos_Alfa/ultimate_spiderman_1_013-014.jpg

#29 Edited by Strider92 (16758 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux: I've gotta say I think the Ultimate team takes this in a good fight. If SpOck and Kaine were to treat them as they would any opponent I think they could win but due to their in-character way acting around youngsters they aren't going to be fighting to the best of their ability. Heck I doubt Kaine would even use his stingers. I do feel Kaine is a wildcard for the 616-team though. As he doesn't have a spider-sense to begin with he's used to fighting without it. The Ultimate team on the other hand aren't used to fighting someone who doesn't trigger their spider-sense. Not to mention Kaine's incredible pain tolerance means the teams secret weapon (Miles's sting) is going to be less effective. The only possible argument I could make for the 616 team is that if Kaine were to succumb to the "Other" everyone is screwed but given as he's done a good job suppressing it thus far (aside from the incident with Wolverine) its very unlikely!

The Ultimate team most like takes this with Scarlet Spider being the last man standing. If their Morals were off i'd see this going differently however.

#30 Posted by laflux (17538 posts) - - Show Bio

@strider92: Yep that sounds like a fair assessment.

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#31 Posted by Strider92 (16758 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux: I'd kind of like succumbing to the "Other" to be part of Kaine's powerset. Not Spider-out like he did against the wolves every time but just have the "Other" kind of slip into control every time Kaine gets mad and only go full-spider when it looks like Kaine's going to die again.

#32 Posted by laflux (17538 posts) - - Show Bio

@strider92: So kinda like Wolverine's beserker rage? That's actually a neat idea.

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#33 Posted by Strider92 (16758 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux: The image I had in my head was more along the lines of the whole Hollow Ichigo thing but yeah the Wolverine comparison works too.

#34 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux: @strider92: The sting has KO Venom, Giant Man (Woman), and Rhino..... Why will it be less effective vs Kaine?

@veitha said:

@cadencev2 said:

@veitha said:

@cadencev2: I read somewhere that she can change her density, pretty much like Vision. I'll look for scans

If ya fine any let me know. I have all the Ultimate stuff now and reading the rest of Ultimate Spider Man till his death at the moment.

I read so in more than a wiki and I found this images where she seems to be using super-strenght and she looks also invulnerable.

http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz254/Chaos_Alfa/ultimate_spiderman_1_012.jpg

http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz254/Chaos_Alfa/ultimate_spiderman_1_013-014.jpg

That is Kitty? What, she is a badguy now!?

#35 Posted by jashro44 (23704 posts) - - Show Bio

@strider92 said:

@cadencev2: It is classic Kaine so I guess we'll have to wait until issue 21 of Scarlet Spider to confirm this. However Ben didn't trip off Peter's spider-sense either due to their similair powers. Spider-clones have consistently flown under the radar when it comes to spider-sense. Even run-off the mill fodder ones Kaine was one-shotting during the clone-saga weren't tripping of Ben's or Pete's spider-sense.

Ahhh but a valid Argument can be made of the fact Spider Clones are seen the same as Peter due to being clones.

Will Miles sense register this? Or Ultimate Jessica?

There sense could still go off since they are genetically not the same.

It should be noted that spider-mans spider-sense did work on Kaine during spider-island. Possibly because when Peter received his spider-sense back it was better then before (that's what Peter said, he said that it was working with his way of the spider). Either that or PIS.

#36 Posted by laflux (17538 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: I didn't say it wouldn't be effective and I backed the Ultimate team for a win. But Miles sting did need two shots to take down Peter, and Kaine has shown greater healing feats. Plus Spiders tend to have enhanced resilience to poisons as part of their power-sets.

@jashro44 said:

It should be noted that spider-mans spider-sense did work on Kaine during spider-island. Possibly because when Peter received his spider-sense back it was better then before (that's what Peter said, he said that it was working with his way of the spider). Either that or PIS.

I took that showing due to the fact that Kaine was mutated during that fight and Spider-Island due to the point that the Spider-Sense could differentiate him. Later on when Kaine came to wish Peter farewell, his SS wasn't triggered (though that could have been due to Kaine good intentions). It is a good point though....

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#37 Posted by jashro44 (23704 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux: Yea I think that was because Kaine wasn't a threat. My issue with the mutated theory is that Kaines DNA couldn't have changed much as his DNA was similar enough to Peters to fool Peters lab security IIRC.

#38 Edited by Chibio (920 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux said:

First off Miles already beat the real Parker, who is more skilled and experienced than SpOck (Not saying it was an accurate depiction of the battle), but it lends to the idea Miles can hang with a Morals on SpOck.

Yeah, but these were specific circumstances. It was Peter Parker, who is always holding back and he was additional confused by the entire scenario.

But now we're talking about a real fight, where we're looking for a winner. The OP never stated anything about some kind of morals, or handicaps. In a fight Spider-Ock and Kaine would look for a way to win and win without wasting a lot of time and resources, since it's in their character. I honestly don't think that the Ultimate Spider-Men could keep up with them.

Let me even go one step further to say how easy Spider-Man managed to approach Miles. If it was Spider-Ock / Kaine Miles would have been in a world of trouble for sure, since they would not hold back. They're a superior Spider-Man and Kaine for a reason.

#39 Posted by Veitha (3362 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux: @strider92: The sting has KO Venom, Giant Man (Woman), and Rhino..... Why will it be less effective vs Kaine?

@veitha said:

@cadencev2 said:

@veitha said:

@cadencev2: I read somewhere that she can change her density, pretty much like Vision. I'll look for scans

If ya fine any let me know. I have all the Ultimate stuff now and reading the rest of Ultimate Spider Man till his death at the moment.

I read so in more than a wiki and I found this images where she seems to be using super-strenght and she looks also invulnerable.

http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz254/Chaos_Alfa/ultimate_spiderman_1_012.jpg

http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz254/Chaos_Alfa/ultimate_spiderman_1_013-014.jpg

That is Kitty? What, she is a badguy now!?

She's Kitty as Shroud, I think, and it's before the Death of Spider-Man. Currently she's leading the X-Men.

#40 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@veitha: Nice I am almost caught up with my Spidermans. On Issue 70 now.

#41 Edited by Veitha (3362 posts) - - Show Bio