Superboy Prime vs Z

Who wins in this fight?

Superboy prime survived a Universe-busting attack. Does Z have anything that is shown to be powerful enough to be able to match the power of a Universe-busting attack or greater? If not, then Z cannot damage Superboy prime in any-way.

How does superboy get past the LHW? I mean, Z could just.. sit there and laugh at whatever he does..

prime never survived univarce lavel attack on his own

guys can you post the scan of prime surviving a universe-busting attack? I'm not sure what you're talking about..

They're talking about Superman Prime, who was more powerful than Superboy Prime. Superman Prime absorbed a large amount of energy, and I forget the circumstances.

@jedixman: I thought they were talking about the whole 'I will kill you to death!' fiasco, because it was a chain reaction.. not like he took the whole explosion head on..

@jedixman:

I'm talking about Superboy prime. Superboy prime took a Universe-busting attack from Monach.

@princearagorn1:

Monarch Universe-busted on panel and Superboy prime survived it. It's not really up for debate. It happen on panel and it's a confirmed feat.

@tjsh96: The universe and all the planets were still there. It wasn't a universe busting attack, it just destroyed all life in the universe and even then I believe Time Trapper saved Superboy. Anyway Superboy Prime wins here.

@eternityx:

Except we're clearly told that it destroyed everything, which is confirmed by Solomon. There was nothing left in the Universe until Solomon re-made it. I suggest that you go read Countdown to Final Crisis #13.

Yes, iirc only thing remaining was a plant saved by monitor's shields..

Monarch Universe-busted on panel and Superboy prime survived it. It's not really up for debate. It happen on panel and it's a confirmed feat.

But the blast was a chain reaction. Not like it was a one-shot deal. Chain reaction means one explosion fuelling to another, and so on, like a chain of firecrackers going off. prime only survived whatever the initial blast was, the first firecracker. And it wasn't focused on prime either. Remember when he was hit by a 'nuke' earlier and yelled 'it really hurt'?

Anyway, how exactly does he get past LHW? Not like he can punch or heat vision them..

@princearagorn1: What exactly is LHW?

LHW, or Light Hawk Wings are basically our universe's manifestation of energy from higher planes of existence. is an insanely hax defense, protecting you from every attack. It's not only usable for defense, but also for offense. It automatically multiplies anything that you're hit with by zero.. It also has other 'lolnope' purposes, capable of causing about every effect. For example, when tenchi was thrown into a black hole, and used them to reverse it's polarity, and tagging ships in subspace (impossible, actually). Literally the only way to fight a lhw is another lhw, To beat a LHW user, you need to have more LHW than them..

Tenchi can create three, while Z has five.. Tsunami, a nigh-omnipotent being, one of three who created the tenchi muyo multiverse, has ten.

(The three chousins are only nigh-omnipotent because someone's above them, otherwise they have no restrictions at all)

Even without that, Z can casually flick people across solar systems..

Prime also took the galaxy level war world explosion without any damage whatsoever. And that was regular SBP. He wins.

How does he win? I mean, there's almost nothing that can get past a single lighthawk wing, even nigh omnipotent ones have ten. Having five makes a near-impenetrable defense..

@princearagorn1: Here's him surviving the universal busting attack:

Superman Prime was tricked into breaking Monarch's armor, which released a quantum explosion with the equivalent of the Big Bang. And was barely scratched after that. Although Superman Prime is a lot stronger than Superboy Prime, it's not by that much.

@retconcrisis: I know what happened dude:

This is the scan of the attack which hurt him, the one before your third scan (that really really hurt!):

And monarch compared his quantum power to that of the big bang, evident when his suit was broken. Not the attack itself.

And here's the scan saying it was chain reaction, not direct big bang:

Bottom right, I marked it for you.

Big bang was a singular effect, monarch's was a chain reaction. Impressive as surviving it is, equaling it with surviving universal attack is, no offense, retarded. It's like surviving one firecracker and comparing it to tanking the whole chain.

Now, surviving the war world, as logi said, could be count as a proper feat.

@logy5000: Can I ask you for the scans if you don't mind?

And he does have high durability, I agree, but how does he get past the defense, it literally multiplies everything by zero. A Lighthawk wing is basically lazy author's way of making a character indestructible..

@princearagorn1: Oh okay. Been a while since I read Final Crisis so I couldn't find those two panels. Thanks for the info. But it was still a pretty powerful attack that can probably be credited.

Anytime :)

And No one's denying it was a powerful attack..

YES!! I've been looking for this character named "Z" for almost a year. I once saw a gif of him putting a giant hole in what seemed like a moon/planet and I had been curious ever since. Thanks for starting the thread :)

EDIT: found the gif

This is outrageous. I've said this before and I'll say it again. An explosion, no matter how it's done, small or otherwise, is always a freaking chain reaction. Every single time. There are not such explosions that do not fall under this.

How explosions work

chain reactions in explosions

Can we please get past this.

Superboy's durability is null and void against a LHW. They bypass all defense, not to mention they negate offense to 0. Not seeing how Superboy has a shot here.

But surviving a little part of chain reaction doesn't mean they can survive the whole chain reaction.. Specially nuclear reactions, collide with other atoms and use their energy. If left uncontrolled, a fusion reaction could create the sun. But surviving a fusion reaction doesn't mean they can survive the whole reaction focused on them, much less whole sun.

Energy of a chain reaction goes on increasing with time. It's really, really quite small at the start compared to what it is at the end. For example, the energy starting the chain reactions of u-235 can be about 10^-11 J. Even assuming thousands of atoms initiate the reaction, The complete energy released from the atomic fission bomb is vastly out of this range, like.. 10^10J/g of uranium.

The energy of chain reaction is spread across the entire explosion, not focused on the object, it's not like it was a side effect of their battle..

Though prime took solid blow, saying that he has big bang level durability is inaccurate, especially using this as an example..

Tanking a nuke =/= tanking a punch equal to a nuke..

a LHW bypass all defense, but in his universe there arnt any offensive attacks as powerful as monarchs attacks, anyway putting a hole through a moon is nothing compared to what dc and marvel earths heavy hitters can do, hell, putting a hole through a moon is not considered to be jaw dropping even in DBZ

I wasn't really using that as a feat. I don't know much about Z and I was just posting that to show what I was using to look for him a while ago. I'm sure he has done more impressive things considering the Tenchi Muyo universe has characters that could probably solo the whole DBZ cast effortlessly (and this is coming from a DBZ fan)

yeah, but then DBZ is nothing compared to comic ppl, no offense. if you could just post some feats of z 4 us ...

No, that was Superman Prime, not Superboy Prime. Same character - different powerlevels.

Which Tenchi series is Z from?

@princearagorn1:

You've made it clear that you don't know how explosions work. It was a singular explosion that destroyed the Universe. A SINGULAR explosion. Every type of explosion is a chain reaction, that's how explosions work. That doesn't mean the blast itself wasn't capable of destroying everything on it's own, since it clearly did, unless you want to debate against on-panel canonical showings.

A planet exploding wouldn't magically cause the Solar-System to explode. An entire Solar-System exploding isn't going to wipe out a Galaxy. A Galaxy exploding isn't going to destroy the Universe. See what I mean?

Monarch's blast destroyed everything on it's own.

And you have made it clear you don't know how to read. Read my complete point and then reply.

@unbreakable_fs4: Doubt it, Since LWH have no immunity over Ki they became vulnerable since Ki does not exist in their universe for the LHW to become immune over. This means Goku would solo easily with no problems, There piss shit without there LHW only human or peak human level

LOL Z may have a hax ability, But his offences are shit. His only Planet+moon level in terms of destruction. he won't even scratch superboy boots. Light wings just grant immunity not durability. If Superboy can take them wings off for a second he would crush Z into nothingness

GOKU SSJG,Bill,Whis,Broly solos tenchu muyo

@princearagorn1:

I've read your reply to me. All it is was nonsense about how Monarch Universe-busting attack is somehow less impressive because it's a "chain reaction", like that somehow makes a difference.

Er.. no. Tenchi singlehandedly solos DBZ..

Unless ki attacks are immune to multiplication by zero, that isn't happening. Only planetary+? Tenchi, without light hawk wings, was flicked on the head with a finger by z, and reached saturn. How is that peak human?

And how does superboy even phase the wings anyway?

Hmm. You can read, just can't understand, then.

I didn't say monarch's.. attack.. wasn't impressive. Just that it's energy was spread throughout the universe. So it is NOT a universal durability feat.

And all explosions are chain reactions, but it doesn't mean they all work the same way. Monarch's energy interacting with surrounding caused it. Chain reactions can increase in energy with time. And we're shown gradually that the chain reaction goes on from continent, to planet, and so on. Prime only withstood what the initial blast of energy was, not like the whole explosion was focused on him.

@princearagorn1: Ki is life force energy, unless they can make life force energy useless than they have no immunity over it. Give me proof of them using Ki or having immunity over it otherwise they have no immunity over it. They cant just be immune to another life force from another cartoon

Z is naturally strong without light wings, While Tenchi without LHW is only Human level. Goku can fart and send him to the sun at tenchi human level. Also that doesn't prove that his more than planet level by flicking Tenchi to saturn.

Regardless, Z is not even moving Superboy Cap. Even if he make himself immune to him. Z cannot even scratch his boots

Er.. since when is life energy immune to multiplication by zero?

Z is naturally strong without light wings, While Tenchi without LHW is only Human level. Goku can fart and send him to the sun at tenchi human level. Also that doesn't prove that his more than planet level by flicking Tenchi to saturn.

but it does prove him being above peak human, doesn't it?

Regardless, Z is not even moving Superboy Cap. Even if he make himself immune to him. Z cannot even scratch his boots

Which results in a stalemate at best.

And question is, why does prime say he's hurt when hit by a nuke level attack?

@princearagorn1:

It is SHOWN and CONFIRMED on-panel that the entire Universe is DESTROYED. NOT LIFE-WIPED, BUT DESTROYED! We're told in the comic-book that everything in the Universe is destroyed, which is then confirmed by Solomon and then Solomon re-built it. Have you ever read this comic-book before or are you just babbling from whatever you've seen in a few scans? So since it destroyed the Universe and Superboy prime survived it at point-blank range, that is an impressive Universe-level durability feat for Superboy prime and a Universe-busting feat for Monarch.

Do you understand it now or do I need to make it even clearer, perhaps like we do to a elementary school kid by illustrating diagrams and everything?

@princearagorn1: Since Ki doesn't get weaker unless the user is fighting for a while, Ki is life itself in DBZ. It can be divided or reduced especially if LHW never done it before. Go show me a guy using Ki and then Killing him. he only have immunity over the simple defences. Not Ki defences since its a different level of defence where its using more than physical strength

But still nothing, There still below planet by miles except Z since he naturally strong. Without Light wings there only planet level, Well Z is only planet level the Kami is only peak human or superhuman.

don't know, Nukes are different to Z explosions on planet since he just puts holes in them and instantly wipes them out. he doesn't do it DBZ style where there is a explosion. A planet explosion or a nuke burn at 10000 C so maybe the heat hurt him

1. When did I deny that the universe is destroyed? I even said only thing remaining was a plant saved by solomon's shields, actually supporting you on the point. Does that seem like babbling to you?

2. What am I saying is, chain reactions, specially the ones mentioned on panel, increase in energy with time. I even gave an example of how great the difference in energy at the start and at the end is.

For example, the energy starting the chain reactions of u-235 can be about 10^-11 J.

Even assuming thousands of atoms initiate the reaction, The complete energy released from the atomic fission bomb is vastly out of this range, like.. 10^10J/g of uranium.

What, because I can withstand the blast that initiates the chain reaction means I can withstand the entire chain reaction? NO.

3. Also, the energy from it was spread across the entire universe. So are you saying that if prime is hit with all of it focused, he'll be able to get up after that? If so, why did he say that a nuke level attack hurt him "a lot"?

Unless you can show ki being immune to multiplication by zero, it's going to work.

But still nothing, There still below planet by miles except Z since he naturally strong. Without Light wings there only planet level, Well Z is only planet level the Kami is only peak human or superhuman.

Kami is peak human? Hell no, even Mr. popo was so fast that goku could barely see him, and kami's faster as well as stronger. What's kami doing here anyway, he's not mentioned anywhere?

Do you know how hard you have to be hit to reach other planets? Even flash's infinite mass punch sent people flying at escape velocity. Flicking you to saturn will have to hit far, far harder than that, and kami, no light hawk wings, didn't even bleed from that.

And anyway, op doesn't restrict lighthawk wings.

don't know, Nukes are different to Z explosions on planet since he just puts holes in them and instantly wipes them out. he doesn't do it DBZ style where there is a explosion. A planet explosion or a nuke burn at 10000 C so maybe the heat hurt him

Wow. Just wow. What was the last time any kind of superman was hurt by 10000 degrees? he baths in the freaking sun for God's sake..

@princearagorn1:

I don't know what you're confused about. Explosions, as far as I know, are chain reactions. So what exactly is your point with this? Whatever you're trying to say, is irrelevant. A nuclear explosion is more powerful than a grenade, brining up anything to do with chain reactions won't change that, it's the POWER that matters, the other details of an explosion are irrelevant to this. A supernova is more powerful than a nuclear explosion, brining up chain reactions won't change, it's the POWER that matters, the other details of an explosion are irrelevant to this. A Universe-busting attack is more powerful than a supernova, brining up chain reactions won't change that, it's the POWER that matters, the other details of an explosion are irrelevant to this.

@tjsh96: Let me clear your confusion.

1. The energy at the start of a chain reaction is not equal to energy at the end of the chain reaction. In fact, it's negligibly small. prime tanked the initial blast.

2. The energy was scattered across the universe. The damage was soaked by planets, suns, stars, and rest of the whole freaking universe. Prime only tanked whatever negligible fraction of it was focused on him.

Hence, it is NOT a feat for universal level durability.

More important question is, why did he say that the nuke level attack really hurt him?

Ugh.... Bringing in logic and science in battle discussions.....

@jasonhawke said:

Ugh.... Bringing in logic and science in battle discussions.....

lol :)

don't worry I won't be boring you about that. I just hate it when people use scans without knowing what's actually happening in them

@princearagorn1:

Unless you can show ki being immune to multiplication by zero, it's going to work.

Unless you can show me them doing that in their universe, otheriwse Its not going to work.

Kami is peak human? Hell no, even Mr. popo was so fast that goku could barely see him, and kami's faster as well as stronger. What's kami doing here anyway, he's not mentioned anywhere?

Do you know how hard you have to be hit to reach other planets? Even flash's infinite mass punch sent people flying at escape velocity. Flicking you to saturn will have to hit far, far harder than that, and kami, no light hawk wings, didn't even bleed from that.

Mr Popo is fast, Kid Goku can react to light speed attack. Kami Tenchi without LHW never showed that Kind of speed. The best he showed was i think speed of sound or hypersonic, Goku has shown Lightning Speed even as a kid

The people that flash are hitting a much more durable than Kami tenchi, kami is City block level, Who did Flash IMP ?

Wow. Just wow. What was the last time any kind of superman was hurt by 10000 degrees? he baths in the freaking sun for God's sake..

Than i don't know, i am not a superman expert. But maybe it had so much force or something. I dont know

@cardle_grave:

Unless you can show me them doing that in their universe, otheriwse Its not going to work.

So lighthawk wings don't work on anything they haven't faced before? So why don't I extend and say ki doesn't harm anyone from other universes, so they don't have a reason to block it at all. Why would they bother? It doesn't work that way. There are a lot of things that haven't interacted with ki (dispel bound, lhw, energy absorbtion powers), yet when we go for a battle thread, we assume they will. Simple as that.

Mr Popo is fast, Kid Goku can react to light speed attack. Kami Tenchi without LHW never showed that Kind of speed. The best he showed was i think speed of sound or hypersonic, Goku has shown Lightning Speed even as a kid

The people that flash are hitting a much more durable than Kami tenchi, kami is City block level, Who did Flash IMP ?

'Kami tenchi'?

Tenchi refers to the character, tenchi masaki.

Kami tenchi refers to the original omnipotent being, you know, the one which was shattering the multiverse, shaking the God dimension, and kissed away a multiversal being, in Human form, while ascending to higher dimensions.. There's no need to bring him here, as omnipotents aren't allowed. His essence escaped the universe in moments. Calling him hypersonic is... interesting lol

@cardle_grave: I think you mean Tenchi Muyo with Light Wings. Kami Tenchi is omnipotent, and from what I've heard, the writer himself.