Super team battle.

Captain America and Winter Soldier vs Batman and Robin (Dick)

Cap and Bucky. Winter Soldier uses real weapons and lethal force. With out the help of the writers, Batman and Robin are gettin lit up.

King of Kings says:

"Cap and Bucky. Winter Soldier uses real weapons and lethal force. With out the help of the writers, Batman and Robin are gettin lit up."

I was thinking the same thing.

Apparition says:

"and no one's standing up for batman and robin..."

You are the only person who shows compassion in these battles. lol

Eternal Chaos says:

"Apparition says:

"and no one's standing up for batman and robin..."

You are the only person who shows compassion in these battles. lol"

LMAO.

It would be an interesting fight. I would like to see it.

Ms. Invisible says:

"Apparition says:

"lol someone has to be compassionate and see ms i came in to defend batman and robin!"

Because you bring out the best in me. I salute you!

Starts playing Simply the Best by Tina Turner.

But seriously, Bats and Robin have fought people stronger than this and their gadgets make up for their weapons."

Yeah cause the writers save there ass. No way is Batman or Robin gonna dodge bullets with no super human ability. rat a tat tat done, finished, game over.

Apparition says:

"King of Kings says:

"Ms. Invisible says:

"Apparition says:

"lol someone has to be compassionate and see ms i came in to defend batman and robin!"

Because you bring out the best in me. I salute you! *Starts playing* Simply the Best *by Tina Turner.* But seriously, Bats and Robin have fought people stronger than this and their gadgets make up for their weapons."

Yeah cause the writers save there ass. No way is Batman or Robin gonna dodge bullets with no super human ability. *rat a tat tat* done, finished, game over. "

then you pretty much have anyone with a gun beating them. that cant be right."

No No, not any o'l bum off the street, but a highly trained assassin, standing side by side with Cap, yes. Cap Stands in front, protects Bucky with his shield, Bucky raises up over the top, and blam. I mean come on. I like Bat's as much as the next fan boy, but he should have been dead along time ago.

Buckshot says:

"King of Kings says:

"Ms. Invisible says:

"Apparition says:

"lol someone has to be compassionate and see ms i came in to defend batman and robin!"

Because you bring out the best in me. I salute you! *Starts playing* Simply the Best *by Tina Turner.* But seriously, Bats and Robin have fought people stronger than this and their gadgets make up for their weapons."

Yeah cause the writers save there ass. No way is Batman or Robin gonna dodge bullets with no super human ability. *rat a tat tat* done, finished, game over. "

If they rarely did it then I'd say they probably couldn't do it in a "real" fight, but they do it almost every night they put on their costume. Aside from that and the fact that they're not actually dodging bullets (though there are instances of them dodging bullets after they've been fired), Cap does the same thing with "no super human ability". Why is it acceptable for him and not for Batman or Robin? "

I didnt say it was, I think its a great point, and if Batman or Robin used guns then it would be a different story. But they dont. So the team with the gunman wins.

Ms. Invisible says:

"Apparition says:

"then you pretty much have anyone with a gun beating them. that cant be right."

That's what I thought... the whole point of a gun would just destroy the point of this thread. Okay, well I'm done.

"

But thats what Winter Soldier is about, thats what he uses. I mean, are we then taking Cap's shield, and Batman's belt?

Buckshot says:

"King of Kings says:

"I didnt say it was, I think its a great point, and if Batman or Robin used guns then it would be a different story. But they dont. So the team with the gunman wins."

Maybe I'm not understanding what you're saying, but they don't need to use guns to not be shot by one. There are decades of comics that show this."

I was talking about your Captain America point, about dodging bullets. But this is what I'm saying, just cause its Batman, now all the sudden anyone with a gun has been reduced to a joke, when really, his ass would get dropped.

Apparition says:

"King of Kings says:

"Buckshot says:

"King of Kings says:

"I didnt say it was, I think its a great point, and if Batman or Robin used guns then it would be a different story. But they dont. So the team with the gunman wins."

Maybe I'm not understanding what you're saying, but they don't need to use guns to not be shot by one. There are decades of comics that show this."

I was talking about your Captain America point, about dodging bullets. But this is what I'm saying, just cause its Batman, now all the sudden anyone with a gun has been reduced to a joke, when really, his ass would get dropped. "

body armor..."

That I can get with App. Body armor is differently better then saying they dodge bullets.

But even Kevlar has its limits. What kind of caliber rounds is Winter Soldier using? What caliber can there suits withstand? There's an issue of Batman were at the beginning Robin is on a mototcycle and is being chased. The bad guys shoot him up and it grounds him, Joker pulls up and saves him, but even with body armor it put him down.

Apparition says:

"maybe it depends on where they get shot. their cape's are supposed to be bullet proof too i think and then it also depends on where they're fighting. if they have some stuff to dodge behind then they should be fine."

And if they dont, there dead :P

Buckshot says:

"King of Kings says:

"I was talking about your Captain America point, about dodging bullets. But this is what I'm saying, just cause its Batman, now all the sudden anyone with a gun has been reduced to a joke, when really, his ass would get dropped. "

Why would he "really" get dropped? What is it that erases his years of bullet dodging? His ability to avoid bullets is a pretty much a skill that's as valid as knowing a certain fighting style. He's learned how to consistently do it, it's not just some random thing that he does. I don't get why you think he can't do it.

I think you're saying the opposite, that just because someone's got a gun, Bats doesn't stand a chance. "

Dodging bullets is a skill? WTF, when did this happen? You can actually train yourself to dodge bullets? No, the only reason Batman dodges bullets is because of writing. Thats it. Its the same reason Batman does the other 900 things he shouldn't be able to do as a regular human. How can I be saying anyone with a gun can take Batman, when clearly DC has made it quite clear that they cant? This ain't the Joker with some trick gun, this ain't Two Face with a tommy gun, its Winter Soldier. His marksmanship and years of training get thrown out the window because Batman is now Boris the Bullet Dodger?

Buckshot says:

"King of Kings says:

"Dodging bullets is a skill? WTF, when did this happen? You can actually train yourself to dodge bullets? No, the only reason Batman dodges bullets is because of writing. Thats it. Its the same reason Batman does the other 900 things he shouldn't be able to do as a regular human. How can I be saying anyone with a gun can take Batman, when clearly DC has made it quite clear that they cant? This ain't the Joker with some trick gun, this ain't Two Face with a tommy gun, its Winter Soldier. His marksmanship and years of training get thrown out the window because Batman is now Boris the Bullet Dodger?"

I said "pretty much" a skill, but sure, why not? People train to catch fast moving balls in sports, I've even seen people who have trained to catch arrows. What's so hard to believe about someone (a comic book character) training to dodge bullets? How about instead of "training" I just say that he's been in gun fights so much that he's learned to read armed enemies and learn how to avoid getting shot, and that his years of practicing martial arts has increased his reflexes to the point where he can react fast enough. That better? And again, why is Cap allowed to dodge bullets but Batman is not? They're both supposed to be limited to what a human can do, so why is it ok for Cap but not Bats? So what if it's writing? Isn't it that same writing that lets Cap dodge bullets, throw his shield however he wants, take on the Hulk, etc? Why is Batman not allowed to get the same treatment Cap gets? And yes, everyone that's ever shot at Bats has been an idiot goon, he's never faced people who were actually skilled with guns. "

I addressed Cap, he shouldn't be able to dodge bullets either. But like I said, since neither Batman nor Robin use guns, its not really an issue here right?

So Batman can now dodge bullets, not some of the time, but he's now learned how to read armed people (whatever that means) apparently he knows were and when someone is going to shot. Well that changes everything. If he can dodge bullets, he can dodge Cap's shield, and he sure as hell can dodge any physical attack, I mean whats dodging a punch when you can dodge bullets. Even to anticipate when someone is going to fire and dodge out of the way, your reaction time would have to be super human. I mean Batman has now become faster then a speeding bullet.

Buckshot says:

"King of Kings says:

"I addressed Cap, he shouldn't be able to dodge bullets either. But like I said, since neither Batman nor Robin use guns, its not really an issue here right? So Batman can now dodge bullets, not some of the time, but he's now learned how to read armed people (whatever that means) apparently he knows were and when someone is going to shot. Well that changes everything. If he can dodge bullets, he can dodge Cap's shield, and he sure as hell can dodge any physical attack, I mean whats dodging a punch when you can dodge bullets. Even to anticipate when someone is going to fire and dodge out of the way, your reaction time would have to be super human. I mean Batman has now become faster then a speeding bullet. "

How are you going to say what the characters can and can't do? I wasn't saying Bats could do it just because Cap could, but because it's a well established ability. Both of them are bullet dodgers. As for "reading armed people", I'm thinking an exaggerated version of how fighters can see how their foes are going to throw their next punch, or like Cassandra Cain but not nearly as good. He dodges the gun and where it's being aimed, not necessarily the bullet (but he has). He can dodge Cap's shield (he's not the only one) and he can dodge most blows from people with human speeds (fighters in his skill bracket that are up in his face can hit him, and do). This isn't new, it's stuff he's done before. Plenty of peak human characters can and have dodged bullets without being faster than an actual bullet. This should be common knowledge, especially to a Gambit fan."

Since when did Batman become Peak Human? Was he also giving a Super Soldier Serum? I must have missed that. Dodges were the gun is being aimed? Its being aimed at him. What does the Winter Soldier pack a mussel loader? I was thinking he had a machine gun, it really doesn't matter were its aimed, the whole area is getting sprayed.

Gambit? As soon as Marvel starts having him dodge bullets, let me know, cause I've never seen it. And if he did I would have a problem with it.

I guess he must of had something in his eye.

ilona~POW says:

"King of Kings says:

"Buckshot says:

"King of Kings says:

"I addressed Cap, he shouldn't be able to dodge bullets either. But like I said, since neither Batman nor Robin use guns, its not really an issue here right? So Batman can now dodge bullets, not some of the time, but he's now learned how to read armed people (whatever that means) apparently he knows were and when someone is going to shot. Well that changes everything. If he can dodge bullets, he can dodge Cap's shield, and he sure as hell can dodge any physical attack, I mean whats dodging a punch when you can dodge bullets. Even to anticipate when someone is going to fire and dodge out of the way, your reaction time would have to be super human. I mean Batman has now become faster then a speeding bullet. "

How are you going to say what the characters can and can't do? I wasn't saying Bats could do it just because Cap could, but because it's a well established ability. Both of them are bullet dodgers. As for "reading armed people", I'm thinking an exaggerated version of how fighters can see how their foes are going to throw their next punch, or like Cassandra Cain but not nearly as good. He dodges the gun and where it's being aimed, not necessarily the bullet (but he has). He can dodge Cap's shield (he's not the only one) and he can dodge most blows from people with human speeds (fighters in his skill bracket that are up in his face can hit him, and do). This isn't new, it's stuff he's done before. Plenty of peak human characters can and have dodged bullets without being faster than an actual bullet. This should be common knowledge, especially to a Gambit fan."

Since when did Batman become Peak Human? Was he also giving a Super Soldier Serum? I must have missed that. Dodges were the gun is being aimed? Its being aimed at him. What does the Winter Soldier pack a mussel loader? I was thinking he had a machine gun, it really doesn't matter were its aimed, the whole area is getting sprayed.

Gambit? As soon as Marvel starts having him dodge bullets, let me know, cause I've never seen it. And if he did I would have a problem with it.

I guess he must of had something in his eye.

"

Lol, so WS isn't being a marksman by your rational, he's just laying the lead. That makes a huge difference, Bats can just fuckin dive behind something. And I'd say that with all of bats extensive training he's as fast as Cap, not strong as, but strong enough to daze. They aren't in the same physical bracket and that's only because of Cap's serum, but Bats is pretty fuckin top on the physical scale there. As for the bullet dodging, they all can fuckin do it, and I'm guessing it's because they have that instinct of "OH SHIT, A DAMN GUN POINTED AT ME, I BETTER MOVE", and they gage when the triggered be pulled cause they've seen it so many times, and they jump/roll/dive/etc. The biggest handicap in this match though, is between WS and Dick. Dick isn't as crazy skilled as Bats, he's on his way, but come on. And WS has a bionic friggin' arm. Cap and Bats fighting, Bats wins cause he's a cheater, he's always got something/someway/some idea, even AFTER he gets his ass kicked, to win. WS would prolly kill Dick, and it'd be up to Bats again. That's how I see it. Bat team wins."

I addressed him being a marksmen already, not my fault if ya missed it. My point isn't that Batman, has, does, and will dodge bullets, its that he shouldn't be able to, especially if its Winter Soldier on the trigger. We can drop F-Bombs, doesn't make are point any more valid.
Post Edited:2007-10-29 21:49:43

Apparition says:

"bats can try and cheat as much as he wants to but cap fights cheaters every day. what do you think villains do? so that's not going to be enough for batman to be able to beat cap. cap's too good physically for batman."

With Batman's super speed he wins :P

ilona~POW says:

"I didn't miss it, you just went against his whole marksmanship by saying he was praying the place, so he's either crack shotting them or he's not. If he's crack shotting, then yeah, they can dodge all they want they'll get hit some.Superman, even with kryptonite around is too good physically for Batman, yet Bats can waste his ass. Give Bats some credit for his body too, he's been training almost all his life."

That was one post, you do know there are two pages before that right?

ilona~POW says:

"King of Kings says:

"ilona~POW says:

"I didn't miss it, you just went against his whole marksmanship by saying he was praying the place, so he's either crack shotting them or he's not. If he's crack shotting, then yeah, they can dodge all they want they'll get hit some.Superman, even with kryptonite around is too good physically for Batman, yet Bats can waste his ass. Give Bats some credit for his body too, he's been training almost all his life."

That was one post, you do know there are two pages before that right?"

Stop trying to be so antagonistic. I've read all the pages, all the comments. I was saying that you went against your OWN statement by saying it doesn't matter where Batman goes 'cause WS would be spraying the whole place down. That's all I was saying.

Sorry me being on Batman's side is such a blow to you, but it doesn't change my opinion much, but yeah, WS would fuckin rape Dick, but Batman's a cheater, he'd win.

It's not just bad writing with the Super vs. Bats, Super holds back on humans like Cyclops holds back all his power, I don't care if you think that's stupid and just part of the bad writing (I don't like Supes much anyway) he'd hold back even in a fight to the death, and even holding back his powers should be too much for Bats, but Bats'd cheat and get out of it."

Its what I do, deal wit it. It shouldn't matter if he's aiming or not, you can either dodge bullets or you cant. If you've truly red all the posts like you claim, then you should also realize that WS would have a better chance of hitting him, if he widened the area, as opposed to small concentrated blasts. I dont care who you think would win, I'm only talking about the bullet dodging. But you know that already, right?