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Posted by nfareed71024 (155 posts) 11 months, 17 days ago

Poll: Super Skrull and Gladiator (Shiar) vs Amazo and Hyperion (Exiles Earth-4023) (34 votes)

Suoer Skrull and Gladiator 26%
Amazo and Hyperion 74%

Super Skrull and Guardian have to fight Amazo and Hyperion in the heart of the Skrull Empire in a WWE Tag Team style match. Morals are off and a tag is classified by the act of getting to a previously stated 4x4 square. You can only win by death and the fighters have two weeks prep time. Who will win?

AND

VS.

AND

PICK NOW!!!

#1 Edited by nfareed71024 (155 posts) - - Show Bio

Amazo cannot match Super Skrull and Hyperion and Gladiator max each other out while they level the Skrull home planet of Hala. The tide can swing for either side if Hyperion matches up with Super Skrull or Gladiator matches up with Amazo.

#2 Posted by HellionVulcan (3637 posts) - - Show Bio

Morals are off so can any body on the Hyperion team even react to him ? but Glad's team for the win ..

#3 Posted by nfareed71024 (155 posts) - - Show Bio

I take back what I said earlier, Guardian would destroy Hyperion... he has literally broken this dudes back before!!

#4 Posted by Oni_Bane (1562 posts) - - Show Bio
#5 Posted by nfareed71024 (155 posts) - - Show Bio
#6 Posted by nfareed71024 (155 posts) - - Show Bio

Infinitty comics event drops today

#7 Edited by dondave (34674 posts) - - Show Bio

Amazo could do this by himself. Team 2 Stomps

#8 Edited by dondave (34674 posts) - - Show Bio

I take back what I said earlier, Guardian would destroy Hyperion... he has literally broken this dudes back before!!

He did that to an inferior version of Hyperion, King Hyperion is to that superior

#9 Posted by nfareed71024 (155 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave you are right, that is why I made it the Exiles version, togive poor Hyperion a chance.

#10 Posted by dondave (34674 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave you are right, that is why I made it the Exiles version, togive poor Hyperion a chance.

Not really, you just made it more of a stomp, Amazo doesn't even need Hyperion to beat them

#11 Posted by nfareed71024 (155 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave Amazo cannot even beat Super Skrull... he is somebody who can copy powers and if he copies Gladiator's or Super Skrull's powers, they will be better than him at using them! He even lost to Batman and Nightwing in Under the Red Hood when he was pretending to be Superman. Gladiator and Hyperion are carbon copies of Superman witha killer mentality.... Amazo is not on LEVEL!!

#12 Posted by dondave (34674 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave Amazo cannot even beat Super Skrull... he is somebody who can copy powers and if he copies Gladiator's or Super Skrull's powers, they will be better than him at using them! He even lost to Batman and Nightwing in Under the Red Hood when he was pretending to be Superman. Gladiator and Hyperion are carbon copies of Superman witha killer mentality.... Amazo is not on LEVEL!!

Amazo doesn't need to copy their powers, he has his own powers that are enough to beat them. Batman and Nightwing beat an out-dated Model of Amazo..

Amazo using only Wally's and Superman's powers can beat both of them

#13 Posted by nfareed71024 (155 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave Gladiator is basically Wally and Supes but together anyway, but has a warrior background and has led an entire empire...Kallark is going to be doing work in Infinity so read up. Kallark has blitzed Thor (who can think and react at Light Speed), matched the Hulk's strength, and shown that he can fly up to 100x the speed of light. Not only can Gladiator easily kill Amazo, Kallark can probably solo Superman AND Flash. Amazo is outmatched and outclassed.

#14 Posted by Dextersinister (5803 posts) - - Show Bio

@nfareed71024: @dondaves right, this is a horrible stomp in Amazo's favour as the one you are thinking of is a really low end model.

The standard Amazo has the powers of: Superman,WW, Martian Manhunter, Flash, Aquaman, GL by default. He will then add their powers to his own.

#15 Posted by Dextersinister (5803 posts) - - Show Bio

@nfareed71024: Gladiator seems impressive on paper but he is one of the biggest losers in Marvel and despite his supposed awesome powers has an atrocious win record.

#16 Posted by theONEtaichou (1506 posts) - - Show Bio

"Not only can Gladiator easily kill Amazo, Kallark can probably solo Superman AND Flash. Amazo is outmatched and outclassed."

... *ahem* hahahahahahahahahahahahahah wooooooooooooooo!!!!

To quote a DBZ Kai, "You can't pay for entertainment like that"

good day

#17 Posted by dondave (34674 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave Gladiator is basically Wally and Supes but together anyway, but has a warrior background and has led an entire empire...Kallark is going to be doing work in Infinity so read up. Kallark has blitzed Thor (who can think and react at Light Speed), matched the Hulk's strength, and shown that he can fly up to 100x the speed of light. Not only can Gladiator easily kill Amazo, Kallark can probably solo Superman AND Flash. Amazo is outmatched and outclassed.

Oh God, I can't fathom how you could write that.

Thor doesn't have Light Speed Reactions, he's barely above street level, he's been blitzed by Mongoose for god sake.

Travel Speed doesn't help you in a fight.

Gladiator couldn't beat Superman and Wally, he can't even beat Superman let alone Wally.

Amazo has actually blitzed Wally West who actually has astounding reaction feats.

You obviously don't know enough about Amazo to legitimately debate about against him

#18 Edited by nfareed71024 (155 posts) - - Show Bio

@dextersinister @dondave Honestly you just named the Justice League and Kallark coyuld probably stomp their entire team if it did not include Hal Jordan.... which does not apply if Amazo is using the ring because he does not have the same willpower as Hal. And he is missing Superman 's most potent power which is Invulnerablity. What good will Martian Manhunter do him without the Martisn physiology and honestly, who cares about Arthur Curry. Having WW powers does not add anything to the plate that he does not already have. Amazo was beat by Young Justice and easily dispatched in the NEW 52 Justice League #8. Do you believe that either of those things will happen to Gladiator? I don't think so.

#19 Posted by nfareed71024 (155 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave: Since when doesn't Thor react at light speed? Do you read any of his comics or profiles? Flash's speed is his greatest asset yet he always finds a way to get hit by mediocrity while Thor is a proven slugger with a warrior background that I keep mentioning. Thor and Guardian will both dispatch Flash or Supes (or both) will realative ease. Training means everything.

#20 Edited by dondave (34674 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave: Since when doesn't Thor react at light speed? Do you read any of his comics or profiles? Flash's speed is his greatest asset yet he always finds a way to get hit by mediocrity while Thor is a proven slugger with a warrior background that I keep mentioning. Thor and Guardian will both dispatch Flash or Supes (or both) will realative ease. Training means everything.

Thor has nowhere near Light Speed Reactions, he even admitted that Wolverine was faster than him, Captain America complained that he's too slow and has been repeatedly blitzed by Mongooose

#21 Posted by nfareed71024 (155 posts) - - Show Bio
#22 Posted by dondave (34674 posts) - - Show Bio

@nfareed71024: What does that have do with anything everybody knows his hammer is FTL, his body however is not.

Why would I need to go a website to learn about Thor, I actually read the comics he's appeared.

#23 Posted by nfareed71024 (155 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave: i have read the comics too and taking away Thor's hammer in an argument about his skills is stupid. The website is to show you that Thor can react at lightspeed. How else would he be able to use lightning so potently? Taking awat Thor's hammer is like saying Iron Man could not beat Batman without his suit and that is a duh. Or Captain America cannot beat Red Skull if he never took that serum. Or Superman would not be good if Earth had a red sun. Mjolnir is Thor, in fact they are connected by Life Force. Now if Kallark is on Thor-level that tells you something. Kallark has stood completely still from a punch from Juggernaut... Infact just look right here:

Admit his greatness

#24 Edited by Dextersinister (5803 posts) - - Show Bio

@nfareed71024: It's commonly accepted that Thor only has FTL travel speed and that his reflexes aren't that impressive.

Amazo has Superman's invulnerability and for whatever reason his ring works just as well as there's, I don't know why it's just comic book magic. A standard Amazo is a tough feat for the entire league

#25 Posted by nfareed71024 (155 posts) - - Show Bio

@dextersinister The Amazo picture is just cover art and one of those Thor's pages are Eric Masterson not Thor Odinson. The other one can just be attributed to poor writing. The same way how Flash got hit by Black Adam saying shazam once. Just somebody who does not fully understand the depth of his powers/

#26 Posted by Blood_Red_Rage (508 posts) - - Show Bio

Amazo solos.

#27 Posted by nfareed71024 (155 posts) - - Show Bio

This crazy. 6 out of 8 people have gone in the favor of Hyperion and Amazo with Amazo as the primary reason. If they do win it willbe because of King Hyperion.

#28 Edited by Dextersinister (5803 posts) - - Show Bio

@nfareed71024: They wouldn't have a cover like that and then have Amazo get one-shotted by Superman as soon as the fight starts, if you've ever read an Amazo story he almost always gives the league a good thrashing.

There's a massive difference between being tagged by someone slower which happens to everyone and outright admitting someones faster. As far as I am aware outside of travel speed Thor has never shown reflexes in the last 25 years above a street leveler.

#29 Edited by dondave (34674 posts) - - Show Bio

@nfareed71024: Since you don't seem to know what Amazo can do, here are some of recent Pre-52 feats

#30 Posted by nfareed71024 (155 posts) - - Show Bio

@dextersinister Seriously, has Amazo like ever won? Batman blew off his face with an explosive, what do you think Guardian could do with his lasers. Plus he has fought stronger and eaasily dispatched them. He did not give the League a good thrashing in the New 52 in Justice League #8 so accept that the poor writers probably realized they were inflating readers like you with delusions of grandeur.

#31 Posted by nfareed71024 (155 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave he mqde Superman look like a coward (if you are a Superman villian and does not do that, you need to reassess your life), took a hit from Flash, choked out a little girl,fought the entire league, and then probably flamed out and lost like he always does. Plus you can tell a character has been accidentally made too important if you basically make them chicken crap in the reboot.

#32 Edited by Dextersinister (5803 posts) - - Show Bio

@nfareed71024 said:

@dextersinister Seriously, has Amazo like ever won? Batman blew off his face with an explosive, what do you think Guardian could do with his lasers. Plus he has fought stronger and eaasily dispatched them. He did not give the League a good thrashing in the New 52 in Justice League #8 so accept that the poor writers probably realized they were inflating readers like you with delusions of grandeur.

If you mean by won he's beaten heroes tougher than these 2 but funnily enough being a villain he always loses in the end.

You've already been told that Batman beat a different much weaker version of Amazo but either you can't remember a point made a few hours ago or you are just trying anything to not admit the Marvel characters get stomped.

The new 52 Amazo is both a different character and was beaten off screen so is unusable so how do you know he didn't give them a tough fight? also needing the combined League to take you isn't exactly a low showing.

Accept that you offer nothing new when you resort to using unshown fights as low showings and seem to be too biased to admit Amazo stomps one of the biggest Jobbers in Marvel and a character way outside his weight class. Gladiator loses to MM telepathy alone.

#33 Posted by nfareed71024 (155 posts) - - Show Bio

@dextersinister: There is nothing to admit. Gladiator is better and that is that. Amazo is not nearly as powerful as you arer keen on expressing and me bringing up Batman was to just reassert the lows of Amazo. And what mental insecurities does MM have to prey on? None. It would be like trying to mess with a robot's head. Plus without his shapeshifting, he is nothing more than Vision. Are you suggesting Vision can beat Kallark? Kallark is pratically the same as Superman if not better, are you claiming that Amazo can solo Superman? If so, you are the biggest DC hugger I have ever known and refuses to believe that a Marvel character can thrash Amazo.

#34 Posted by dondave (34674 posts) - - Show Bio

@dextersinister: There is nothing to admit. Gladiator is better and that is that. Amazo is not nearly as powerful as you arer keen on expressing and me bringing up Batman was to just reassert the lows of Amazo. And what mental insecurities does MM have to prey on? None. It would be like trying to mess with a robot's head. Plus without his shapeshifting, he is nothing more than Vision. Are you suggesting Vision can beat Kallark? Kallark is pratically the same as Superman if not better, are you claiming that Amazo can solo Superman? If so, you are the biggest DC hugger I have ever known and refuses to believe that a Marvel character can thrash Amazo.

1. The fact that he could save Lilandra from being killed or the fact that he killed most of his race. Also he doesn't need to prey on his insecurities he could defeat him like the Guardians of the Galaxy did, turn a broom into a weapon that defeats him.

2.Amazo has and can beat Superman, he di it twice in the scan I presented. To say that he can't is stupid

#35 Posted by nfareed71024 (155 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave: I really don't think you are thinking correctly.... This is a battle to the death! Would Amazo be able to kill Gladiator? Hell no. Would Gladiator be able to kill Amazo? Rather easily. Would Gladiator be able to kill King Hyperion.... I do not know but he has a better chance of suceeding than Hyperion has of killing him so yeah. Amazo will never be able to take care (kill) of the Alpha Dog in his own universe named Kal-El so he will not be able to kill a superman that has killer instinct, warrior training, and no exploitable weakness like kryptonite. Amazo is just not on that level.

#36 Edited by Dextersinister (5803 posts) - - Show Bio

@nfareed71024: You really don't have anything further to offer this debate if you are unwilling to accept a basic points that standard Amazo cannot beat Superman when you've even been shown that he does.

Also Gladiator gets owned by telepaths

#37 Edited by nfareed71024 (155 posts) - - Show Bio

@dextersinister: i already said that each team had two weeks prep time so Gladiator has plenty of time to observe him and since when has Kallark been subjected to pre-determined weaknesses like superman? But I have realized that your not going to crack and neither am I so should we still be arguing over this? I justly believe that Amazo cannot beat Gladiator and if Kallark is flanked by Super Skrull, the duo of Amazo and Hyperion cannot either but 89% of people disagree so be it. Whatever but Gladiator is good enough to take Amazo with ease and King Hyperion after a long battle.

#38 Posted by HeraldofGanthet (3247 posts) - - Show Bio

@nfareed71024: There is nothing to admit. Gladiator is better and that is that. Amazo is not nearly as powerful as you arer keen on expressing and me bringing up Batman was to just reassert the lows of Amazo. And what mental insecurities does MM have to prey on? None. It would be like trying to mess with a robot's head. Plus without his shapeshifting, he is nothing more than Vision. Are you suggesting Vision can beat Kallark? Kallark is pratically the same as Superman if not better, are you claiming that Amazo can solo Superman? If so, you are the biggest DC hugger I have ever known and refuses to believe that a Marvel character can thrash Amazo.

Good morning, and "Welcome to the 'Vine"! There have been several Amazo's throught DC history. Almost as many as there have been Ultron's throught Marvel's history in that they both began as one thing and have upgraded themselves several times when they saw the need to do so. In addition, Professor Ivo has also built lower scale Amazo's that are specialized in only duplicating one or two powersets as foot soldiers (distractions) to give the JL or any other hero or group in DC a hard time (similar to what Dr. Doom does in Marvel with his "Doombots") Batman and Nightwing destroyed one of these models, not the Primary Amazo.

That Amazo has a basic powerset of the Pre-Flashpoint JLA's founding and core members. His baseline powers (which he both can and does use in any combination of his choosing) are as follows:

  • The entire Kryptonian powerset of Superman
  • Ditto the Flash
  • Ditto Green Lantern
  • Ditto Aquaman
  • Ditto Martian Manhunter (Who's a LOT more powerful than Vision. We'll get into that later if need be)
  • Ditto Wonder Woman and her equipment minus her "Eagle Armor"
  • Ditto Black Canary and all of her martial arts skills. And finally,
  • Ditto Batman's equipment and martial arts skills

This is Amazo's baseline powerset. Just as the FF are the Super-Skrull's baseline. He (Amazo) can further empower himself with the powers of other Meta's, aliens, mystics, even other machines (as evidenced by him duplicating Red Tornado's powers, and him creating his own Kinetic Hammer just because Steel flew past him).

And yes, Amazo both can and has defeated Superman soundly due to the fact that he can access all of the superstrengths of all its powersets simultaneously. So it is actually like fighting all of those people at once inside the same body. In any combination of his choosing.

#39 Posted by jojjimbo (2472 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 2.

#40 Edited by XiiX (7479 posts) - - Show Bio
#41 Posted by RetconCrisis (3386 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave Amazo cannot even beat Super Skrull... he is somebody who can copy powers and if he copies Gladiator's or Super Skrull's powers, they will be better than him at using them! He even lost to Batman and Nightwing in Under the Red Hood when he was pretending to be Superman. Gladiator and Hyperion are carbon copies of Superman witha killer mentality.... Amazo is not on LEVEL!!

Under the Red Hood Amazo is about a hundred times weaker than regular Amazo.

#42 Edited by World_Breaker_Elmo (186 posts) - - Show Bio

The thing I question regarding Glads is that willpower ability he demonstrated against Vulcan. This has cropped up before in debates as what exactly is the nature of Glad's powers are. A lot of speculation is that they are just genetic or a form of psionics, but nothing has ever really been established. My idea is that if Gladiator can simply will himself (if that is even what was occurring here) invulnerable to an energy manipulator to the degree of Vulcan then what else can he possibly defend against or overcome?

BUT, until a story arc comes through that firmly established what Glad's nature truly is I can only go by how he has been displayed...and more often than not he is... *sighs* ...the inevitable punching bag for some earth based character. That is why I am going with team 2. I see Glads and SSkrull having some initial success by hanging and possibly defeating King Hype before getting handled by Amazo.

#43 Posted by HellionVulcan (3637 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave said:

@nfareed71024 said:

@dextersinister: There is nothing to admit. Gladiator is better and that is that. Amazo is not nearly as powerful as you arer keen on expressing and me bringing up Batman was to just reassert the lows of Amazo. And what mental insecurities does MM have to prey on? None. It would be like trying to mess with a robot's head. Plus without his shapeshifting, he is nothing more than Vision. Are you suggesting Vision can beat Kallark? Kallark is pratically the same as Superman if not better, are you claiming that Amazo can solo Superman? If so, you are the biggest DC hugger I have ever known and refuses to believe that a Marvel character can thrash Amazo.

1. The fact that he could save Lilandra from being killed or the fact that he killed most of his race. Also he doesn't need to prey on his insecurities he could defeat him like the Guardians of the Galaxy did, turn a broom into a weapon that defeats him.

2.Amazo has and can beat Superman, he di it twice in the scan I presented. To say that he can't is stupid

1 Didn't turn out for good for them either once Gladiator broke out of that mind control by a phoenix powered Rachel Summers,he owned every body with a speed blitz something he can & will do in this fight .Gladiator has a history of fighting more powerful beings than Hyperion & Amazo combined & hes fared pretty well against phoenix (powered beings) afew times tyrant Hyperion Thor just to name a few so his best fights way outclass every body in this .Super skrull is a beast to as whats to stop him from force fielding team 2 brains .

#44 Posted by nfareed71024 (155 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave @dextersinister I found this via Comicvine while on the Guardian Page: Gladiator has been shown to have strong psychic defenses that defend his mind against telepathic assaults. These defenses however are not able to defend against all telepaths and he is still susceptible to attacks from telepaths of a high order. It is unknown whether or not this ability is inherent to Strontians or if it was a part of the training he received as being a member of the Imperial Guard. MM will prove fruitless against him.

#45 Edited by HeraldofGanthet (3247 posts) - - Show Bio

@nfareed71024: @hellionvulcan:

Gentlemen. After rereading the Rules stated in the OP, this is a bloodlusted fight to the death between both teams. That means:

@hellionvulcan:

Super skrull is a beast to as whats to stop him from force fielding team 2 brains .

Good question.Expanding a force bubble inside of Amazo's head will be absolutely useless when he turns his head and/or body intangible via Martian Manhunter's intangibility. This also allows him to attack telepathically. Hell, just to be an a**hole, he might pull a Reed Richards and force him to morph into a cow for the next 175 years, thus forgetting he even has powers in the first place; removing him from the battle entirely.

@nfareed71024: Gladiator is not going to speedblitz a being with the combined speed of the Flash, Superman, WW, Green Lantern, etc. Adding insult to injury, nothing in the OP states that Amazo can't further dupe the powers of his teammate and/or the powers of his adversaries as well. Gladiator's confidence means nothing when he's been Speed Stolen and IMP'ed into orbit. Independent of whatever Hyperion could bring to this fight.

#46 Posted by Hyperlight (5516 posts) - - Show Bio

team 2

#47 Posted by nfareed71024 (155 posts) - - Show Bio

@heraldofganthet: Amazo does not have the combined speed, he just has super speed. Gladiator's speed cannot be stolen just employed, which would not bring anything to the table that he foes not alteady have. He is simply unbeatable. How would Amazo possibly kill him? Nobody has supplied me with the answer to that question yet. Amazo has reapetedly been beaten by lower level villians while Gladiator has been a juggernaut of the most powerful. Amazo's most useful power stolen from is MM whose telepathy will have no affect and hiis intangibility can only be formidable on the defensive end against Kallark. Gladiator just has them beat.

#48 Edited by HeraldofGanthet (3247 posts) - - Show Bio

@nfareed71024: Amazo does not have the combined speed, he just has super speed. Gladiator's speed cannot be stolen just employed, which would not bring anything to the table that he foes not alteady have. He is simply unbeatable. How would Amazo possibly kill him? Nobody has supplied me with the answer to that question yet. Amazo has reapetedly been beaten by lower level villians while Gladiator has been a juggernaut of the most powerful. Amazo's most useful power stolen from is MM whose telepathy will have no affect and hiis intangibility can only be formidable on the defensive end against Kallark. Gladiator just has them beat.

In the most recent battle between the JLA and Amazo (Pre-Flashpoint), Wonder Woman was on the losing side of the classic "test of strength" often employed by professional wrestlers at the beginning of their matches. During this, she (in her mind) stated "What was I thinking? He's stronger than me and Clark put together". Why would she say this? Simple. Because she's aware of something you choose not to realize: Amazo has full access to his baseline powerset and any other Metas in his vicinity. In full. And in any combination. Simultaneously. This ability extends to his speed, his telepathy, and/or his energy projection(s).

"Speed Steal" is a technique first discovered by Wally West which he then later taught to Jay Garrick. It is my understanding that Barry Allen has also learned this technique as well. Since Amazo also has full access to the Speed Force, he can also perform this maneuver as well as other Speed Force specific maneuvers (which I'll outline later if it becomes necessary to do so). Speed Steal works as follows:

The target of the Speed Steal has 99% of all of its kinetic energy removed from their bodies transformed (since energy can't be created or destroyed) into 99% potential energy. Freezing them in place like a statue with only the most minimal amount of kinetic/synaptic energy to keep their lungs expanding and contracting and their hearts beating. Because the Flash family aren't killers, they leave the last 1% of kinetic energy in their opponents bodies, so they can be taken into custody or what have you. Amazo has no such moral code, and would thus either take that last 1%, killing Gladiator outright, OR leave that 1% so he can feel helpless and then get blasted into orbit where he can't save himself because NONE OF HIS LIMBS ARE ABLE TO MOVE.

The only energy left in his body is barely enough to keep his involuntary organ function going, not enough to keep his psionic power boosting abilities operative because that would be a voluntary (and thus an upper mental function). It's for this reason that coma patients don't run the 100 yard dash, but are able to breathe, urinate, defecate, and keep a steady heartbeat. You don't have to be awake or aware of yourself doing ANY of those things, but they still happen. Gladiator would be no different and would be helpless to stop it.

#49 Posted by nfareed71024 (155 posts) - - Show Bio

@heraldofganthet: First off, Amazo does not have the mastery of the Speed Force that Barry Allen, Wally West, or Jay Garrick has. So that whole two paragraph deduction was useless. For somebody as tough as you claim he seems extremely beatable. In fact if he employs supes powers, he is sensitive to Kryptonite, If he uses Martian Manhunter he is sensitive to fire. He has their strengths and weaknesses. He as a villian, should have took over the world by now if he is far superior to a Class One Million hero like Gladiator. Shit, Even superman would have took over that earth if he was evil or destroyed it in the process. And it is a shame and a show to his limited power that they made him a non-factor in the reboot of the DC Universe. He obviously was not what he seemed if he is not a prominent figure in the new reality.

#50 Posted by Immortal777 (6974 posts) - - Show Bio

Amazo solos