@m0ntyb0y: I know MK 9 didn't start from scratch that why we are calling it a retcon instead of a reboot, the original storyline is changed which will have affect on the whole series. Yall opinions are stupid because yall haven't shown any proof or statements that would put Sub-Zero above Batman. Batman didn't have prep against Bane or Deathstroke, again you don't know anything about comics or video games. Batman had know idea that Bane was setting him up like that, and nothing you have said proves that Sub-Zero wins. I will ask you again where is the proof at?Subzero, from what I am reading has magic ice powers. Batman is screwed.
Subzero vs Batman
His powers were never stated to be magica, but they were said that it comes from his ancestral.
The original storyline isn't canon anymore due to MK 9, Noob Saibot didn't fight Goro directly but throw a shuriken at him and critical wounded him, and he doesn't have ancestral armor in this fight.
@progenitor: The original storyline isn't canon anymore due to MK 9, Noob Saibot didn't fight Goro directly but throw a shuriken at him and critical wounded him, and he doesn't have ancestral armor in this fight.
I hate the way they recon sh@t nowadays, I actually liked MKM: Sub-Zero. Probably a good thing the armor wasn't allowed, I think it would've definitely been a defeat for Batman.
I doubt it, Sub-Zero in Deception had trouble taking out a small group of tarkatans. I posted a scan of Batman taking out the League of Assassins in seconds, people who are trained by Lady Shiva and Bronze Tiger.
@progenitor: I doubt it, Sub-Zero in Deception had trouble taking out a small group of tarkatans. I posted a scan of Batman taking out the League of Assassins in seconds, people who are trained by Lady Shiva and Bronze Tiger.
Tarkatans are underrated, and he was having trouble because he was physically taking on a horde in the forest, and, IIRC, he was physically spent until the armor spoke to him and guided him, slaughtering the rest of the hordes. If the armor can guide him with that kind of precision, along with a fully rested Sub-Zero, I don't doubt that he could probably overwhelm Batman.
Seriously doubt that he can overwhelm Batman the video for his ending said that it was a small band of tarkatans, not a horde. Tarkatans have no feats so how are they underrated, and on top of that League of Assassin members are better trained by people who are more skilled than Sub-Zero.
@progenitor: Seriously doubt that he can overwhelm Batman the video for his ending said that it was a small band of tarkatans, not a horde. Tarkatans have no feats so how are they underrated, and on top of that League of Assassin members are better trained by people who are more skilled than Sub-Zero.
That doesn't change the fact that the armor's inner-ancestry itself has high potential in it's combat precision, what is Batman going to do against something that can guide a highly trained ninja & martial artist that's been around long before Bruce was born? It seems kind of silly that we're arguing about this anyway if this is MK 9 Sub-Zero.
@Edgeworth_11: His powers were never stated to be magica, but they were said that it comes from his ancestral.
Actually, wasn't it stated in a biography (apparently now defunct) that the Sub-Zero brothers were born from a Cryomancer? A title which would imply magical properties?
@progenitor said:
@nick_hero22 said:@progenitor: Seriously doubt that he can overwhelm Batman the video for his ending said that it was a small band of tarkatans, not a horde. Tarkatans have no feats so how are they underrated, and on top of that League of Assassin members are better trained by people who are more skilled than Sub-Zero.That doesn't change the fact that the armor's inner-ancestry itself has high potential in it's combat precision, what is Batman going to do against something that can guide a highly trained ninja & martial artist that's been around long before Bruce was born? It seems kind of silly that we're arguing about this anyway if this is MK 9 Sub-Zero.
It's never stated how the cryomancer race got their powers, the only that stated is they were from Outworld and can control ice. Sub-Zero got his powers through his cryomancer ancestry not magic.
@progenitor said:
@nick_hero22 said:@progenitor: Seriously doubt that he can overwhelm Batman the video for his ending said that it was a small band of tarkatans, not a horde. Tarkatans have no feats so how are they underrated, and on top of that League of Assassin members are better trained by people who are more skilled than Sub-Zero.That doesn't change the fact that the armor's inner-ancestry itself has high potential in it's combat precision, what is Batman going to do against something that can guide a highly trained ninja & martial artist that's been around long before Bruce was born? It seems kind of silly that we're arguing about this anyway if this is MK 9 Sub-Zero.
Sub-Zero isn't older than Batman, I think he is in his mid 30's. Regardless of him being a highly trained ninja his feats do not stack up to Batman.
I didn't say Sub-Zero was older than Batman. I said the ancestral armor was.
@progenitor: It's never stated how the cryomancer race got their powers, the only that stated is they were from Outworld and can control ice. Sub-Zero got his powers through his cryomancer ancestry not magic.
What do you think the "mancer" in cryo means? It's implied that it's magic, even if they don't outright say so.
what the hell are you talking about its retconed? ed boon basicaly says that mk9 is like a different way of RE IMAGINING mk so pretty much a what if story. so if thats the case all marvel universe what if stories retcon 616 stories. he even explains what he means by RE IMAGINING in the video by comparing the RE IMAGINNING of the short film to dc alternate universe at 5:15 on this video. stop being a fanboy its not retconed. stop acting like you know more than ed boon. you have been owned by ed boon himself so stop debating the retcon.
@progenitor: What does the age of the ancestral armor have to do with this fight?
Like I said before, the armor guided Sub-Zero to kill off the rest of the Tarkatans while Sub-Zero was exhausted, considering it's most likely that it's been around before Batman, I would say that it would give Sub-Zero a higher class in tactical advantage.
its not retconed at all ed boon explains what he means by reboot at 5:15 on the video i posted. Nick is just a being a fan boy subzero stumps. ed boon even says re imaginning is like the batman alternate universe you see in comics at 5:15 of the video.
NOTE: The MK comics aren't canon, nor are the movies and MKC just want to get that out there...the storyline element which follows the games obviously is canon, but not the fights within the comics. Example, Tremor was never mentioned in the actual MK fighting game canon story...nor was Hydro. Also, in one of the Malibu comics, Kano is giving Raiden a hard time...that would never happen lmao...because it didn't happen. Raiden is one of the most powerful guys in MKU, he's kill Kano in a second if he wanted....
@the guy asking how Sub got his powers, it's just his race man being a cyromancer he was born like that but the explain later on that his origins while born and from Earth, originated from Outworld.
MK9 is a time travel story from post MKA, goes back to MK1,2 and 3 timeline but having Raiden of the past know what the future holds and he's trying to prevent it thus he alters certain things. Boon pretty much said this numerous times in various interviews as well as the story guys. I hope MK10 will be a re-done MK4, MK D and MKDA more or less. Not sure why some people think it's an alternate dimension or something, it's just time travel with things changing slightly from the original arch...
If you are re imagining something you are altering it, if you altered something you are changing it, if you change something you are retconing it. Have you played MK 9? Ed Boon said it wasn't a reboot, he also said that their will be alot twists and changes in the story which suggestes a retcon to the original story. Stop trying to twist Ed Boon's words because I watched the video. And for your information a reboot and a retcon are two different things. If you knew the MK story you would know what's going on canon wise.
MK was not retcon by MK9 its a alternate universe.
its not retconed at all ed boon explains what he means by reboot at 5:15 on the video i posted. Nick is just a being a fan boy subzero stumps. ed boon even says re imaginning is like the batman alternate universe you see in comics at 5:15 of the video.
If MK 9 is canon, If the original storyline is still canon why did they stop making games that used the original storyline then? The original storyline is dead, they are not using it anymore it was replaced by the storyline in MK 9 which is canon now.
so ed boon is lying at 5:15 of the video saying that when you re imagin something like the mortal kombat short film its like what comics do for batman in alternate universe. how are you debating ed boons words it makes no sense if anyone else cannot see that this is not a retcon from ed boon own words is because they are a fan boy and blind.
can you do me a favor and watch the video i posted on page 8 and make sure you pay attention to 1:16 and 5:15 of the video and tell Nick its not a retcon because ed boon sai its not a reboot its a reimaginning of the story at 1:16 then goes on to explain what reimaginning is at 5:15 saying that like the MK short film re imahin the story like the comics do for alternate universes like batman.
Reboot and Retcon two f%cking different things
Ed Boon said it wasn't a reboot, a reboot is when you start from f%cking scratch and retcon is a modified version of the story, God! It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this stuff out.
Time Travel = Modified Version
Im not debating Ed Boon words, he said it wasn't a reboot and it isn't.
he says at 5:15 that re imaginning like the comics do with alternate universes, so meaning that by saying re imagin that its an alternate universe its not a retcon its just something that happens in a different universe of mortal kombat. i know the difference between reboot and retcon but he himself explains what he means by re imagain at 5:15 comparing the MK short films with alternate universe comics. so if alternat universe comics are debateable on comicvine well blue marvel is a fucking god bc king hyperion killed every hero on many universes including thor hulk sentry the richards family(including franklin) and not just in one universe but several but blue marvel stomps him so marvel heroes<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<BLUE marvel? MK9 is an alternate universe and since when do we take alternate universe things as canon on comic vine, oh wait let me guess........since batman is involved huh? since he is a dc character huh? since on this site going agaisnt batman and superman is like treason huh? so when a legitimate opponent can beat your heroes his feats and powers are automaticaly called non canon, too bad for you there is video proof of the man himself claiming otherwise.
What you're asking for is ridiculous, and i'm even surprised you're genuinely acting righteous in asking for it. You're asking for proof of why or how Sub-Zero could win, when so far all you've talked about is comparing feats? What feats do you expect people to show? I already explained earlier his feats besides his game Mythologies. Sub-Zero has increased power since the Medallion, and he could always mid-parry create an ice clone of himself and catch Batman off guard, freezing him in place and putting him at Sub-Zero's mercy. Or Sub-Zero could go Iceman and use the ice beam, there are quite literally a few attacks that could counter Batman, he's not Superman, after all, regardless of how skilled he is, it doesn't mean he can't be caught in a counter or tripped up. Please stop parading around saying no one's proven anything when it's virtually almost impossible to give proof unless you talk about his own personal game, or use the theoretical armor argument, which should be taken into consideration, considering this is a theoretical match-up.
His feats in Mythology aren't impressive when you compare them to Batman, so Fail right there. Sub-Zero doesn't have the dragon medallion or armor and even if he did Batman can still take (Batman has gadgets that can counter ice manipulation), so Fail right there. Well Sub-Zero loses becuase he has no comparable feats, he doesn't have his ancestral armor or medallion which really wouldn't make a difference in the fight, and most of his feats are non canon now. Batman wins
@progenitor: His feats in Mythology aren't impressive when you compare them to Batman, so Fail right there. Sub-Zero doesn't have the dragon medallion or armor and even if he did Batman can still take (Batman has gadgets that can counter ice manipulation), so Fail right there. Well Sub-Zero loses becuase he has no comparable feats, he doesn't have his ancestral armor or medallion which really wouldn't make a difference in the fight, and most of his feats are non canon now. Batman wins
You basically just proved my point.
Im through arguing with you.
The definiton of Re Imagining
: to imagine again or anew; especially: to form a new conception of : re-create = Retcon
Ed Boon didn't say anything about a alternate universe, so stop making sh#t up.
@progenitor: Well then how does Sub-Zero win?
Obviously Batman outclasses Sub-Zero in pure H2H, which is fortunate for Subs, considering he incorporates his ice attacks within his arsenal; the ground ice: Batman would have to stay in the air or leap away to avoid being frozen mid-attack, the ice clone: if Batman were to even touch the clone, which Subs can create in close to a second while stepping back, it would cause him to freeze in place, the ice shower: Subs could create shards of ice which go up into the air and down upon Batman's location, which could also freeze him in place. Ice Shaker: Where Subs emits freezing temperatures from his own body, if Batman were too close, it would, yet again, cause him to instantly freeze in place. Subz could also use the Ice Teleport, how is Batman supposed to know where he's going to reappear?
That's only naming some of his techniques, all of which can be counter-measures as well as offensive attack. What could Batman do against techniques which can occur while Sub-Zero is parrying with him for distraction?
Wouldn't exactly say Bats outclasses Sub in H2H, he has more knowledge of styles for sure but Sub was trained from a baby to fight, kill and win. On top of his abilities, which really when you break it down gives him the win here.
My sentiments.
yes he did 5:15 in video. keep trying to deny it i have proof visual proof of ed boon saying it. what do you have? opinions? dont be silly and stop being a fan boy everyone else agrees batman loses subzero wins via too many abilities to kill batmn in wich he has no defense for.
@nick_hero22: yes he did 5:15 in video. keep trying to deny it i have proof visual proof of ed boon saying it. what do you have? opinions? dont be silly and stop being a fan boy everyone else agrees batman loses subzero wins via too many abilities to kill batmn in wich he has no defense for.Watch out, he might say you're clueless. =X He just did so for the fourth time to me on another battle. xD But yes, Sub-Zero should be able to win.
Batman outclasses Sub-Zero because of his number of feats that are pretty high level, regardless of how long Sub-Zero has been training has beaten and stalemated people who have trained longer. His abilities don't pose much of a threat because would easily deduce that Sub-Zero has a degree of ice control do to the way his breath is visible. Batman will use some minature explosives that will blow Sub-Zero sky high.
i bet your wishing i never posted that video dont you? now you little retcon bull$#!t doesnt work. its funny how your going against ed boon, maybe from now on i go against anything dc and marvel say is not retcon too huh? no i would never do that bc im not a blind fanboy.
I just gave you the definitionof re imagining if your too dumb to understand it's definition, you can think whatever you want. I don't care anymore now.
@death_and_decay:dont try to change what you said, if you knew what the hell you were talking about you'd know that warner bros granted midway the license to do whatever they hell they wanted to, assuming dc wouldn't have approved the story they could do nothing about it because warner bros already approved it. so next time try doing a little research instead of talking out of your ass
lol, you think DC didn't approve the story for MK vs. DCU?
...and one of the writers was from DC. So what if he only worked on certain comics? He represented DC.
Just because some powers are used in a non-canon storyline, doesn't mean those powers are non-canon, especially if those powers also exist in canon.
Liu Kang's transformation has been a staple throughout the canon games, including MK9.
You're confusing the canonicity of a storyline with the canonicity of well-established powers.
Fatalities aren't available in story mode because none of the main characters are supposed to die in the playable fights
...No character uses fatalities in story mode except Scorpion, that doesn't make fatalities non-canon
no he doesnt represent dc, again if you knew what you were talking about, the guy who actually wrote the jonah hex and power girl comics is freelance, he isnt employed with dcu. again, talking out of your ass is a bad thing.
thats exactly what it means, if they aren't used in canon storylines then they arent canon period. liu kang has never transformed in canon mk lore, either provide proof of this or it isnt going to fly.
in case you didnt notice most of the mk characters died in mk 9 except for like 3 survivors at the end of the story. scorpion is able to breathe fire because hes basically a hellspawn, certain abilities that are actually shown in mk canon are legit, doesnt mean all fatlaities are canon, and sub zero has never shown sufficient strength to rip someones spine out.
I'd have to disagree nick, Batman is merely older then Sub-Zero as a character since the 40's so naturally he'll have more feats but that doesn't mean greater feats. Sub has defeated Ermac, Scorp, God's, sorcerers etc far more powerful foes then Batman.
The only reason Batman does well is due to his prep time, knowledge and money. Sure he's a great H2H fighter but he's also not even the best DC fighter, just one of the best.
Sub is also one of the best H2H fighters and characters in general in MKU plus he has powers so I'm giving him the edge over Batman here... Batman doesn't outclass Sub-Zero, Sub can do things Batman can only dream of.
Take the Batman vs. Superman plots, it's PIS because Batman has prep without kryptonite Superman owns him with ease...so unless Batman had prep against Sub, he'd die rather fast.
Besides, while I know it's not canon Sub pretty much made Batman his bitch in MKDC dude...lol go to 5:00, and he defeated DS as well who is known to give Bats a rough time...so this is why I feel Batman does not outclass Sub-Zero...plus as confirmed by Raiden and in the MK canon storyline Kuai Lian aka this Sub-Zero is more powerful then the elder Sub-Zero/Bi-Han aka Noob-Saibot.
I guest we are going to hae two different opinion on the matter. While your here can you explain to them that MK 9 retconned the original storyline.
Bats does have defensive moves for Subzero's abilities and in my opinion would win this fight. Batman has taken on much more lethal/powerful opponents than Subzero and has won. But Subz is skilled enough to also pull out some wins as well, H2H I give it to Batman but Subz is a smart fighter and could pull out some victourious against the Dark Knight. In some ways this matchup is sort of like Scorpion vs subzero, you never know who will win. But I think Bats takes 6 out of 10. Subzero is awsome though! But Scorpion is my fave:)
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