@van_cere: That feat alone means nothing. The Supreme Kai made the universe in DBZ, so is beating them an impressive feat? And Demonbane has feats that puts him on the same level or even above GEB.
@pern: Then obviously yes, if there are no other feats to suggest he is below universal level.
What has demonbane done? Let us see....has he stalemated the creator of a creation as big as marvel or DC? No. seriosuly, your getting pretty desperate, to suggest beating a universal is not a good feat. Although Yahweh is hardly universal.
Anyway, come on, tell us, what has demonbane done that can outshine stalemaing the creator of DC?
I never said that wasn't a good feat. I'm saying that that is nothing Elder God Demonbane can't do. And yes I'm very aware that he stalemated the Presence. But like I said, there is no such thing as omnipotence, so that doesn't mean much. What has Demonbane done? He can destroy multiverses with no effort at all. And plus Azazoth couldn't kill him, who is pretty much the equivalent of Presence.
I never said that wasn't a good feat. I'm saying that that is nothing Elder God Demonbane can't do. And yes I'm very aware that he stalemated the Presence. But like I said, there is no such thing as omnipotence, so that doesn't mean much. What has Demonbane done? He can destroy multiverses with no effort at all. And plus Azazoth couldn't kill him, who is pretty much the equivalent of Presence.
heres an example
im god i created everything and nothing. I am everything and nothing.one day i create a duplicate of me, big deal everything is me, does that make me any less omnipotent? lalala i go and create a being more powerful then me, which is "nothing" and when i create it i created "nothing" so "nothing" is more powerful then me big deal iam everything and nothing.
u have to understand this is fiction omnipotent. they have limit such as entering our universe and becoming god of this.
@pern: So if Aza can not kill him then obviously he is not the presences equal; he is not omnipotent. The presence, on the other hand, created DC which shows obvious omnipotence, even though the GEB stalemated him, the GEB is not technically within DC; it lives on the brink of going into the primal monitor which is why it does not count.
And destroying multi verses with no effort? Lucifer destroyed the mansions of silence which houses infinite rejected creations, universes, and dimensions with his presence and Michael can erase creation and all the multiverses within with his death-life demiurgic power releasing blast, Mxy has destroyed the mainstream DC multiverse before (ask clownprince) and synnar thare demiurge created creation. The original source overloaded the spectre with a taste of his power that is nigh omnipotence omniscience and omnipresence so that spectre became everything in creation. In marvel we have thanos with the HOTU who basically became the marvel source of all things, LT who exists at the center of every universe and judges only multiversal threats with a wave of his hand. Beyonder who shatters billions of universes with one strike.....
All created by either TOAA or Yahweh. The GEB is the dark side of Yahweh and stalemated the presence who created those beings so as I said, you really need to come up with something that can > GEB stalemaing the creator of DC.
Anyway, that is not a feat at all, that is just a vague discription of what he can do, not an actual feat that should support your claim.
And what bigger fish? How are there bigger fish? In Marvel, who is more powerful than TOAA? In DC, who is more powerful than Yahweh? we only put them together because this is a battles forum.
@pern: So if Aza can not kill him then obviously he is not the presences equal; he is not omnipotent. The presence, on the other hand, created DC which shows obvious omnipotence, even though the GEB stalemated him, the GEB is not technically within DC; it lives on the brink of going into the primal monitor which is why it does not count.
And destroying multi verses with no effort? Lucifer destroyed the mansions of silence which houses infinite rejected creations, universes, and dimensions with his presence and Michael can erase creation and all the multiverses within with his death-life demiurgic power releasing blast, Mxy has destroyed the mainstream DC multiverse before (ask clownprince) and synnar thare demiurge created creation. The original source overloaded the spectre with a taste of his power that is nigh omnipotence omniscience and omnipresence so that spectre became everything in creation. In marvel we have thanos with the HOTU who basically became the marvel source of all things, LT who exists at the center of every universe and judges only multiversal threats with a wave of his hand. Beyonder who shatters billions of universes with one strike.....
All created by either TOAA or Yahweh. The GEB is the dark side of Yahweh and stalemated the presence who created those beings so as I said, you really need to come up with something that can > GEB stalemaing the creator of DC.
Anyway, that is not a feat at all, that is just a vague discription of what he can do, not an actual feat that should support your claim.
And what bigger fish? How are there bigger fish? In Marvel, who is more powerful than TOAA? In DC, who is more powerful than Yahweh? we only put them together because this is a battles forum.
I agree with what you've said, but...
Technically, wouldn't the Beyonder be a being outside of TOAA's creation?
And the beings that are above Yahweh/Presence I can think of (that have appeared in the comics) are Primal Monitor and Grant Morrison.
@skyroid: @pern: okay, let us see what we have here right now.
Perns points:
1. Demonbane can easily destroy infinite universes (a claim, not a feat).
2. You can not be omnipotent (off topic seeing as we are debating about whether demonbane can beat GEB or not).
3. Aza = presence yet he said it himself Aza can not destroy DB so clearly he is not equal to presence, so, even Aza can not defeat GEB.
Ours:
1.GEB stalemated the presence, who made creation.
2. Omnipotence is a relative term; TOAA is omnipotent in Marvel, the Presence is omnipotent in DC, but outside their creations they all stand on the primal monitor.
3. In battle forums, relativity only extends to one company, so the presence is omnipotent inside DC, because the GEB is not in DC. Beings like GEB or Beyonder who are separated from creation by the primal monitor does not count.
CONCLUSION: Only the first of our points is not off topic, and: clearly stalemating the creator of creation > able to destroy infinite universes. An actual feat > a claim.
@mysticmedivh: i somehow predicted this would happen and being someone who always think of other solutions, your annoying butt is on the top of the list (lol)
@van_cere: Aza couldn't kill him because he isn't omnipotent, and neither is anyone else. Creating the universe does not mean you're omnipotent. Being the strongest in the universe doesn't even mean you're omnipotent.
@van_cere: And I said Demonbane could destroy a multiverse. Simon destroyed an infinite universes. And omnipotence is not off topic because you said GEB wins due to omnipotence.
1. Demonbane can easily destroy infinite universes (a claim, not a feat).
No, it's a feat. Demonbane and Therion's clash was creating/destroying infinite universes as a side-effect of crossing their Shining Trapezohedra. Nyarlathotep strode out in the midst of this laughing, and she creates infinite multiverses for $hits and giggles. Nya took the opportunity to break the prison and release the Court of Azathoth. Instead Demonbane absorbed both Shining Trapezohedra and eliminated not only Therion, but Nya as well, forcing her retreat.
The two Shining Trapezoedra collide, and from the blades of the crossed swords comes a raging flood of Light and Dark.
Hands of Light.
Hands of Dark.
Hands of Dark.
Hands of Light.
Each trying to annihilate the other's World, they begin a fierce battle.
When one World tears into another, that World is itself then swallowed up and assimilated.
Worlds are crushed, that others may feed.
Worlds are eroded, that others may feed.
Worlds are immolated, that others may feed.
Worlds are frozen, that others may feed.
Worlds are thrown down, that others may feed.
Worlds are cursed, that others may feed.
Worlds are consumed, that others may feed.
Worlds are torn, that others may feed.
Worlds are pierce, that others may feed.
Worlds are raped, that others may feed.
Worlds are tortured, that others may feed.
Worlds are violated, that others may feed.
Worlds are aborted, that others may feed.
Worlds are embraced, that others may feed.
In the space between two Trapezohedrons, a hundred billion Worlds are born and slain.
--
Cloaked in the darkness of Chaos, a woman emerges from a sudden rift in the center of our battlefield.
Surrounded by the birth and death of infinite universes, she alights atop the Shining Trapezohedra.
I know this woman well ----
Nyarlathotep.
The Faceless God of a Thousand Forms.
The Crawling Chaos.
An Outer God ---- Nyarlathotep!
1.GEB stalemated the presence, who made creation.
Supposedly. Until DC said it was the Source. Then changed their minds. Then monitors. Then not. Then five of them sitting in Detective Comics' break room until someone $hat all over that and started over from scratch yet again. It's all BS. If the Presence has an equal it means he's not omnipotent. To be omnipotent is to be without equal.
@pern: well obviously creating a universe does not make you omnipotent, you either did not read my post or could not understand it even after I laid it out in simple format.
How about creating creation, being everything inside the creation, and exists throughout that creations time and space?
A multiverse = infinite universes, which Simon did not destroy; he merely escaped a series of universes by doing something even the most powerful version of juggernaut could do; destroy the fabric of reality at a certain point.
And I said he wins because of his feats.
Are you not even reading my posts? Your posts just dribbled with ignorance.
Also, the most important bit: USE FEATS, NOT YOUR PATHETIC CLAIMS.
You seriously are either ignorant, trolling, or just plain dumb. I have requested you use feats and read posts more than 10 times yet you still use claims, which one of them was totally wrong. Simon destroyed a multiverse? Yeah right.
@reikai: You will find that I have already answered those in post number 106 and 108.
Also, dc did not change Their mind; the source originally made creation, yet they changed that. And the monitors never made creation. I do not know where you got those bits of info, but you had better ditch the source.
PS:
I might not answer until Sunday. I am going to prepare for tomorrow's college tour.
@van_cere: No, you made no answer, you just made assumptions. And baseless ones at that.
Aza =/= Presence because Presence =/= TOAA
Source > Presence and since that is true in DC, TOAA >> Presence
The Chousin created the Tenchi omniverse. By that logic alone they are = to the Presence. And yet Kami-Tenchi is still TOAA and above them, Kami-Tenchi actually being a stand in for the series creator, Masaki Kajishima.
Azathoth not being able to kill Demonbane is because Demonbane has become such an important, integral part of Azathoth himself that there is no ridding him, even if Azathoth were to awaken and all else would cease to be.
This story is only a fairy tale.
But even the god who dreams at the center of the World, the god who created all things in Existence, can never, ever destroy it.
For it is a story of momentary love, forever carved into infinite time----
It is the Song of Life.
Let us consider a hypothetical.
A universe inside a reactor.
A universe inside a test tube.
A universe inside a chewing gum wrapper.
This is the story of a universe outside another universe.
This is the story of a universe inside another universe.
This is the story of an eternity contained in a single moment.
This is the story of infinity contained in the tiniest speck of dust.
This is the story of a universe outside another universe outside another universe outside another universe outside another universe outside another universe....... This is the story of endless, infinite universes.
Everything is limitless and momentary.
The infinite and finite will melt together, the circular snake will fall to pieces, and all things will return to the boiling Soup of Chaos.
Everything is as foam on the waves.
Creation is but a fleeting dream, dreamt by the blind idiot-god who is King-of-All as he dozes on the edge of waking.
When he wakes, it will end.
It will simply vanish, and there will be no one to know or remember.
Or perhaps it will simply never have existed at all.
So is the World really nothing more than a fantasy?
This is a hypothetical, but----
There are those who do not think so.
And as previously shown and proven, Demonbane can and has in fact destroyed multiverses. He can do that with every swing of the Shining Trapezohedron.
@pern: how hypocritical, you ignored my post, and point out something that would embarrass you further; YOU KNOW I REPEATLY TELL YOU TO USE FEATS YET YOU STILL DO NOT, this is called trolling kid, and trolls need to be dealt with. Flagged for trolling. @reikai: so obviously AZA is not omnipotent and only is equal to the presence in rank only.
And the source does not equal the presence; do not make claims you can not back up with scans. There are only so many statements and scans that say the presence created creation; either directly or indirectly, and the source is IN creation thus is PART of creation. Anyway, the source was retconned to be the collective soul/ consciousness of all sentient and non sentinent beings.
You do not even know what the characters your desperately trying to explain are, I feel embarrassed FOR you
PS: read post number 106, destroying multiverses does not make you anywhere near GEB
so obviously AZA is not omnipotent and only is equal to the presence in rank only.
You can try and convince yourself of that as much as you want, but it doesn't mean $hit to anyone else because it's blatantly false. The Presence =/= TOAA. Which means Presence =/= Azathoth.
Yog-Sothoth is the "All-In-One" the "One-In-All". He is everything that is and ever shall be, past/present/future, in all of infinite times in all of infinite realities. His molecules are multiverses and his size is infinite. Yog-Sothoth is omniversal and Nyarlathotep is his equal. Azathoth is directly referred to as the "King-of-All" in that he is TOAA, he is without peer, without equal.
Demonbane has proven time and again, across infinite planes and infinite universes, that it is above the likes of Nya and Yog-Sothoth. Having literally imprisoned the entirety of the Court of Azathoth, including the sleeping Aza himself, and has endlessly defeated Nya ever since.
PS: read post number 106, destroying multiverses does not make you anywhere near GEB
Go read the direct quotes from source material and realize how absurdly outclassed you are. The most you could ever hope for is GEB tying out with Nya, and it wouldn't make the slightest difference as Demonbane whips that a$$ daily. And Nya is still far more enjoyable than those vomitous masses that DC retches out.
so obviously AZA is not omnipotent and only is equal to the presence in rank only.
You can try and convince yourself of that as much as you want, but it doesn't mean $hit to anyone else because it's blatantly false. The Presence =/= TOAA. Which means Presence =/= Azathoth.
Yog-Sothoth is the "All-In-One" the "One-In-All". He is everything that is and ever shall be, past/present/future, in all of infinite times in all of infinite realities. His molecules are multiverses and his size is infinite. Yog-Sothoth is omniversal and Nyarlathotep is his equal. Azathoth is directly referred to as the "King-of-All" in that he is TOAA, he is without peer, without equal.
Demonbane has proven time and again, across infinite planes and infinite universes, that it is above the likes of Nya and Yog-Sothoth. Having literally imprisoned the entirety of the Court of Azathoth, including the sleeping Aza himself, and has endlessly defeated Nya ever since.
PS: read post number 106, destroying multiverses does not make you anywhere near GEB
Go read the direct quotes from source material and realize how absurdly outclassed you are. The most you could ever hope for is GEB tying out with Nya, and it wouldn't make the slightest difference as Demonbane whips that a$$ daily. And Nya is still far more enjoyable than those vomitous masses that DC retches out.
so obviously AZA is not omnipotent and only is equal to the presence in rank only.
You can try and convince yourself of that as much as you want, but it doesn't mean $hit to anyone else because it's blatantly false. The Presence =/= TOAA. Which means Presence =/= Azathoth.
Yog-Sothoth is the "All-In-One" the "One-In-All". He is everything that is and ever shall be, past/present/future, in all of infinite times in all of infinite realities. His molecules are multiverses and his size is infinite. Yog-Sothoth is omniversal and Nyarlathotep is his equal. Azathoth is directly referred to as the "King-of-All" in that he is TOAA, he is without peer, without equal.
Demonbane has proven time and again, across infinite planes and infinite universes, that it is above the likes of Nya and Yog-Sothoth. Having literally imprisoned the entirety of the Court of Azathoth, including the sleeping Aza himself, and has endlessly defeated Nya ever since.
PS: read post number 106, destroying multiverses does not make you anywhere near GEB
Go read the direct quotes from source material and realize how absurdly outclassed you are. The most you could ever hope for is GEB tying out with Nya, and it wouldn't make the slightest difference as Demonbane whips that a$$ daily. And Nya is still far more enjoyable than those vomitous masses that DC retches out.
How is presence omnipotent anyway? He's a representation of Yahweh iirc, notthe writer. He was shaped by external forces, putting the omnipotence claim down. So the feat he has is creating infinite universes. that's hardly outstanding..
How is presence omnipotent anyway? He's a representation of Yahweh iirc, notthe writer. He was shaped by external forces, putting the omnipotence claim down. So the feat he has is creating infinite universes. that's hardly outstanding..
and who are the external forces? the writers.
Writer>fiction characters
.........we are talking about yahweh. sry for misunderstanding, but Presence, God, Convent, are all just alias of Yahweh.
I never said that wasn't a good feat. I'm saying that that is nothing Elder God Demonbane can't do. And yes I'm very aware that he stalemated the Presence. But like I said, there is no such thing as omnipotence, so that doesn't mean much. What has Demonbane done? He can destroy multiverses with no effort at all. And plus Azazoth couldn't kill him, who is pretty much the equivalent of Presence.
1, GEB didnt stalement presence, he reached his hand out and the light reached its hand out and then we saw the yin and yang sign.
2,here an example
im god i created everything and nothing. I am everything and nothing.one day i create a duplicate of me, big deal everything is me, does that make me any less omnipotent? lalala i go and create a being more powerful then me, which is "nothing" and when i create it i created "nothing" so "nothing" is more powerful then me big deal iam everything and nothing.
u have to understand this is fiction omnipotent. they have limit such as entering our universe and becoming god of this.
How is presence omnipotent anyway? He's a representation of Yahweh iirc, notthe writer. He was shaped by external forces, putting the omnipotence claim down. So the feat he has is creating infinite universes. that's hardly outstanding..
and who are the external forces? the writers.
Writer>fiction characters
.........we are talking about yahweh. sry for misunderstanding, but Presence, God, Convent, are all just alias of Yahweh.
I know. Presence is stand in for Yahweh, and was shaped by forces external to him as admitted by himself, unlike toaa or azathoth. Making him not omnipotent like the other two.
How is presence omnipotent anyway? He's a representation of Yahweh iirc, notthe writer. He was shaped by external forces, putting the omnipotence claim down. So the feat he has is creating infinite universes. that's hardly outstanding..
and who are the external forces? the writers.
Writer>fiction characters
.........we are talking about yahweh. sry for misunderstanding, but Presence, God, Convent, are all just alias of Yahweh.
I know. Presence is stand in for Yahweh, and was shaped by forces external to him as admitted by himself, unlike toaa or azathoth. Making him not omnipotent like the other two.
and who do u think those external forces are? authors.
How is presence omnipotent anyway? He's a representation of Yahweh iirc, notthe writer. He was shaped by external forces, putting the omnipotence claim down. So the feat he has is creating infinite universes. that's hardly outstanding..
and who are the external forces? the writers.
Writer>fiction characters
.........we are talking about yahweh. sry for misunderstanding, but Presence, God, Convent, are all just alias of Yahweh.
I know. Presence is stand in for Yahweh, and was shaped by forces external to him as admitted by himself, unlike toaa or azathoth. Making him not omnipotent like the other two.
and who do u think those external forces are? authors.
Pretty much the two other beings above the Presence in DC, Primal Monitor/Grant Morrison.
yet he was about to die at old age and by a lousy power created by the anti spiral . he has 0 chances to beat any DC powerful beings.
STTGL is just a well elaborated plot , like Arable toying with planets and the universe. in reality they can die and that robot can be destroyed quite easily.
Demon bane is a good match for Lucifer.
I think the anime team takes it not sure about the endless though
no, STTGL is not beating Mandrakk , anti monitor , endless and so on.
How is presence omnipotent anyway? He's a representation of Yahweh iirc, notthe writer. He was shaped by external forces, putting the omnipotence claim down. So the feat he has is creating infinite universes. that's hardly outstanding..
and who are the external forces? the writers.
Writer>fiction characters
.........we are talking about yahweh. sry for misunderstanding, but Presence, God, Convent, are all just alias of Yahweh.
I know. Presence is stand in for Yahweh, and was shaped by forces external to him as admitted by himself, unlike toaa or azathoth. Making him not omnipotent like the other two.
and who do u think those external forces are? authors.
irrelevant. The point is, that means he's not omnipotent like azathoth or toaa, who were not created by anyone else.
How is presence omnipotent anyway? He's a representation of Yahweh iirc, notthe writer. He was shaped by external forces, putting the omnipotence claim down. So the feat he has is creating infinite universes. that's hardly outstanding..
and who are the external forces? the writers.
Writer>fiction characters
.........we are talking about yahweh. sry for misunderstanding, but Presence, God, Convent, are all just alias of Yahweh.
I know. Presence is stand in for Yahweh, and was shaped by forces external to him as admitted by himself, unlike toaa or azathoth. Making him not omnipotent like the other two.
and who do u think those external forces are? authors.
irrelevant. The point is, that means he's not omnipotent like azathoth or toaa, who were not created by anyone else.
look fictional omnipotence:
u are infinitely more powerful then anything else, know everything and your everywhere. the limitation is that u cant jump to real world and become omnipotent here.
How is presence omnipotent anyway? He's a representation of Yahweh iirc, notthe writer. He was shaped by external forces, putting the omnipotence claim down. So the feat he has is creating infinite universes. that's hardly outstanding..
and who are the external forces? the writers.
Writer>fiction characters
.........we are talking about yahweh. sry for misunderstanding, but Presence, God, Convent, are all just alias of Yahweh.
I know. Presence is stand in for Yahweh, and was shaped by forces external to him as admitted by himself, unlike toaa or azathoth. Making him not omnipotent like the other two.
and who do u think those external forces are? authors.
irrelevant. The point is, that means he's not omnipotent like azathoth or toaa, who were not created by anyone else.
look fictional omnipotence:
u are infinitely more powerful then anything else, know everything and your everywhere. the limitation is that u cant jump to real world and become omnipotent here.
...and you weren't explicitly created by anyone else or have anyone above you. Toaa - Check. Azathoth - Check. Presence? Not check.
Azathoth isn't omnipotent.
...k
Azathoth wasn't created by the authors?
First, what proof you have that it was authors? And two: Presence was specifically stated to not be at the top of the food chain. The others weren't.
btw TOAA=writers, all writers>fiction characters.
By that logic, Lord of nightmare hit the author with a shovel. Means >toaa? No.
How is presence omnipotent anyway? He's a representation of Yahweh iirc, notthe writer. He was shaped by external forces, putting the omnipotence claim down. So the feat he has is creating infinite universes. that's hardly outstanding..
and who are the external forces? the writers.
Writer>fiction characters
.........we are talking about yahweh. sry for misunderstanding, but Presence, God, Convent, are all just alias of Yahweh.
I know. Presence is stand in for Yahweh, and was shaped by forces external to him as admitted by himself, unlike toaa or azathoth. Making him not omnipotent like the other two.
and who do u think those external forces are? authors.
irrelevant. The point is, that means he's not omnipotent like azathoth or toaa, who were not created by anyone else.
look fictional omnipotence:
u are infinitely more powerful then anything else, know everything and your everywhere. the limitation is that u cant jump to real world and become omnipotent here.
...and you weren't explicitly created by anyone else or have anyone above you. Toaa - Check. Azathoth - Check. Presence? Not check.
so the author didnt explicitly create azathoth? what excatly are u trying to say? look fine use the new 52, Presence is omnipotent.
Azathoth isn't omnipotent.
...k
Azathoth wasn't created by the authors?
First, what proof you have that it was authors? And two: Presence was specifically stated to not be at the top of the food chain. The others weren't.
u serious bro? and yes author created azathoth. ok so who is higher then presence beside the authors and the page ovemonitar?
btw TOAA=writers, all writers>fiction characters.
By that logic, Lord of nightmare hit the author with a shovel. Means >toaa? No.
Wth are u saying? actually fictional characters cant jump out of the comic and hit the author. the author can draw comic version of himself and watever character interacting doesn't mean the character is actually interacting with real life author.......
@skyroid: let me simplify it for you: Toaa, Azathoth: Creators of their verse and at the top of hierarchy. Presence: sort of creator of verse but Not at the top of hierarchy, ergo, lower than the other two - Not omnipotent. If you have someone above you, that makes you non-omnipotent.
Wth are u saying? actually fictional characters cant jump out of the comic and hit the author. the author can draw comic version of himself and watever character interacting doesn't mean the character is actually interacting with real life author.......
like fantastic four and toaa? lol.
What I'm trying to say is, an omnipotent is unchallenged, and at the top of the hierarchy. Just because someone represents the author doesn't make him ahead of others, because following that logic, lord of nightmares or mxy > toaa. Which is rather obviously false.
@skyroid: let me simplify it for you: Toaa, Azathoth: Creators of their verse and at the top of hierarchy. Presence: sort of creator of verse but Not at the top of hierarchy, ergo, lower than the other two - Not omnipotent. If you have someone above you, that makes you non-omnipotent.
Wth are u saying? actually fictional characters cant jump out of the comic and hit the author. the author can draw comic version of himself and watever character interacting doesn't mean the character is actually interacting with real life author.......
like fantastic four and toaa? lol.
Just jumping in here, but TOAA has been confirmed to be the writers themselves within the actual comic. Is there anything to suggest that Azathoth is H.P. Lovecraft himself in the book?
@skyroid: let me simplify it for you: Toaa, Azathoth: Creators of their verse and at the top of hierarchy. Presence: sort of creator of verse but Not at the top of hierarchy, ergo, lower than the other two - Not omnipotent. If you have someone above you, that makes you non-omnipotent.
Wth are u saying? actually fictional characters cant jump out of the comic and hit the author. the author can draw comic version of himself and watever character interacting doesn't mean the character is actually interacting with real life author.......
like fantastic four and toaa? lol.
Just jumping in here, but TOAA has been confirmed to be the writers themselves within the actual comic. Is there anything to suggest that Azathoth is H.P. Lovecraft himself in the book?
@skyroid: let me simplify it for you: Toaa, Azathoth: Creators of their verse and at the top of hierarchy. Presence: sort of creator of verse but Not at the top of hierarchy, ergo, lower than the other two - Not omnipotent. If you have someone above you, that makes you non-omnipotent.
Wth are u saying? actually fictional characters cant jump out of the comic and hit the author. the author can draw comic version of himself and watever character interacting doesn't mean the character is actually interacting with real life author.......
like fantastic four and toaa? lol.
1, so lets hear it who is higher then Yahweh?
2,did the FF from the comic come to our world and interact with the actual writers? no. Writers>fictional characters, cause Fictional character does what the author makes them do.
3, to be omnipotent u have to be in complete control of your verse and have all knowledge and have the power to do anything on infinite scale.
4, and yes Azarhoth is created by the author, not sure why u think it has to be explicitly stated.
5, Azathoth, can he beat/kill do anything with anything in his verse?
@skyroid: let me simplify it for you: Toaa, Azathoth: Creators of their verse and at the top of hierarchy. Presence: sort of creator of verse but Not at the top of hierarchy, ergo, lower than the other two - Not omnipotent. If you have someone above you, that makes you non-omnipotent.
Wth are u saying? actually fictional characters cant jump out of the comic and hit the author. the author can draw comic version of himself and watever character interacting doesn't mean the character is actually interacting with real life author.......
like fantastic four and toaa? lol.
Just jumping in here, but TOAA has been confirmed to be the writers themselves within the actual comic. Is there anything to suggest that Azathoth is H.P. Lovecraft himself in the book?
Azathoth is the creator of HP Lovecraftverse.
I know, but is there anything to suggest that Azathoth is the writer himself in the Lovecraftverse? Or is he a fictional character created by Lovecraft who created the Lovecraftverse. There's a big difference.
3. Indeed. And you have to be at the top of it's hierarchy.
4. It has to be explicitly stated because real world author isn't a part of fiction. The moment they are mentioned or appear in any form of comic, it means it's their comic counter part, making it a comic character as well, as you agreed in point 2, it is not possible for characters to interact with the actual author . The stand-in might be omnipotent, or it might be below other characters: Tori bot has little to no known powers, mxy's writers were attacked by him, LON hit and made the writer write what it wanted, and so on. Involving the author, unless the author explicitly stated is nothing but pure speculation.
5. Yes. Simply by waking up. The verse is literally a part of him.
@skyroid: let me simplify it for you: Toaa, Azathoth: Creators of their verse and at the top of hierarchy. Presence: sort of creator of verse but Not at the top of hierarchy, ergo, lower than the other two - Not omnipotent. If you have someone above you, that makes you non-omnipotent.
Wth are u saying? actually fictional characters cant jump out of the comic and hit the author. the author can draw comic version of himself and watever character interacting doesn't mean the character is actually interacting with real life author.......
like fantastic four and toaa? lol.
Just jumping in here, but TOAA has been confirmed to be the writers themselves within the actual comic. Is there anything to suggest that Azathoth is H.P. Lovecraft himself in the book?
Azathoth is the creator of HP Lovecraftverse.
I know, but is there anything to suggest that Azathoth is the writer himself in the Lovecraftverse? Or is he a fictional character created by Lovecraft who created the Lovecraftverse. There's a big difference.
To my knowledge there's nothing suggesting either way. I don't actually see how there is a distinction unless specifically made by the author.
@skyroid: let me simplify it for you: Toaa, Azathoth: Creators of their verse and at the top of hierarchy. Presence: sort of creator of verse but Not at the top of hierarchy, ergo, lower than the other two - Not omnipotent. If you have someone above you, that makes you non-omnipotent.
Wth are u saying? actually fictional characters cant jump out of the comic and hit the author. the author can draw comic version of himself and watever character interacting doesn't mean the character is actually interacting with real life author.......
like fantastic four and toaa? lol.
Just jumping in here, but TOAA has been confirmed to be the writers themselves within the actual comic. Is there anything to suggest that Azathoth is H.P. Lovecraft himself in the book?
Azathoth is the creator of HP Lovecraftverse.
I know, but is there anything to suggest that Azathoth is the writer himself in the Lovecraftverse? Or is he a fictional character created by Lovecraft who created the Lovecraftverse. There's a big difference.
well Azathoth is a character created by lovercraft to be creator of lovecraftverse, since we cant assume every creators are the writer them self. unless it has be stated that Azathoth is the actual writer.
3. Indeed. And you have to be at the top of it's hierarchy.
4. It has to be explicitly stated because real world author isn't a part of fiction. The moment they are mentioned or appear in any form of comic, it means it's their comic counter part, making it a comic character as well. It might be omnipotent, or it might be below other characters: Tori bot has little to no known powers, mxy's writers were attacked by him, LON hit and made the writer write what it wanted, and so on. Involving the author, unless the author explicitly stated is nothing but pure speculation.
5. Yes. Simply by waking up. The verse is literally a part of him.
1, again the actual real life author> Fictional character ( that includes fictional version of author). author creating Yahweh does not make him any less omnipotent, it just means hes fictional omnipotent.
2,and no comic characters cant just come to our world the real world. i think u mean the athor can show them interacting with comic version of our world.
3, ok ill need a clarification, can azathoth, kill demon bane and do anything with any characters, on infinite scale?
4,exactly. the real life author is beyond fictional characters, but comic versions of themselves can be omnipotent or not.
@princearagorn1: @mysticmedivh: TOAA is also the term for Marvel's writers. Also, while HP Lovecraft wrote the books, other writers continued his work afterwords. Then, of course, there are the adaptations of their works and Demonbane is made by nitro+ and is based heavily upon the Lovecraftian lore without being the same.
Nitroplus is responsible for a number of VN and games alongside Deus Machina Demonbane. More recently with dealings with Bandai/Namco, Demonbane was included into the Super Robot Taisen universe in SRT: UX. It also includes Heroman, a creation of Stan Lee.
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Which makes a super awesome cross-company omniversal crossover. I so hope they make a new title for the PS3&PS4 with Demonbane in it. It would be the Best. Thing. Ever.
well Azathoth is a character created by lovercraft to be creator of lovecraftverse, since we cant assume every creators are the writer them self. unless it has be stated that Azathoth is the actual writer.
Actually, it has been stated to be the creator of lovecraftverse, and we do know who created the lovecraftverse: the author. Unless you have something saying they're different, they're the same.
1, again the actual real life author> Fictional character ( that includes fictional version of author). author creating Yahweh does not make him any less omnipotent, it just means hes fictional omnipotent.
No. It is explicit that there is someone above him, meaning he's not omnipotent. Real life author, the moment he was mentioned in the comic, meant that there's a comic persona of him. That persona is omnipotent. Presence is not.
2,and no comic characters cant just come to our world the real world. i think u mean the athor can show them interacting with comic version of our world.
you were the one who stated the first sentence. I agreed with you there. Keep up lol.
The moment toaa was referred, he became the comic counterpart. Because real life author cannot actually interact with the comic.
3, ok ill need a clarification, can azathoth, kill demon bane and do anything with any characters, on infinite scale?
Actually, azathoth -is- demonbane and all other characters. The verse is him, and his dreams. Nyarlathotep for example, is his/it's consciousness.
4,exactly. the real life author is beyond fictional characters, but comic versions of themselves can be omnipotent or not.
Indeed. And presence << comic version, or the external forces mentioned. Meaning not omnipotent.
well Azathoth is a character created by lovercraft to be creator of lovecraftverse, since we cant assume every creators are the writer them self. unless it has be stated that Azathoth is the actual writer.
Actually, it has been stated to be the creator of lovecraftverse, and we do know who created the lovecraftverse: the author. Unless you have something saying they're different, they're the same.
Yea Lucifer and Michael was also creator of DC, and as was the Source but last i checked they weren't the author.
1, again the actual real life author> Fictional character ( that includes fictional version of author). author creating Yahweh does not make him any less omnipotent, it just means hes fictional omnipotent.
No. It is explicit that there is someone above him, meaning he's not omnipotent. Real life author, the moment he was mentioned in the comic, meant that there's a comic persona of him. That persona is omnipotent. Presence is not. and that comic persona as u said can either be omnipotent or not. just cause the real author themself is beyond fiction doesnt mean the immediate moment he makes comic version of himself that its omnipotent. as the author is beyond fiction he can make any fiction character omnipotent and take that away. FYI it was Mike Carey's lucifer serie that it wasn't mention that external force created Yahweh.
no idea wat ur sayin. author creates fictional character. yes. did lovecraft create azathoth? yes?. heres wat u wrote
"It might be omnipotent, or it might be below other characters: Tori bot has little to no known powers, mxy's writers were attacked by him, LON hit and made the writer write what it wanted, and so on. Involving the author, unless the author explicitly stated is nothing but pure speculation."
the author being above him does not make him any less omnipotent......
btw there is more then 1 author in Marvel and DC.
2,and no comic characters can just come to our world the real world. i think u mean the author can show them interacting with comic version of our world.
you were the one who stated the first sentence. I agreed with you there. Keep up lol.(changed cant to can)
The moment toaa was referred, he became the comic counterpart. Because real life author cannot actually interact with the comic.
3, ok ill need a clarification, can azathoth, kill demon bane and do anything with any characters, on infinite scale?
Actually, azathoth -is- demonbane and all other characters. The verse is him, and his dreams. Nyarlathotep for example, is his/it's consciousness.
4,exactly. the real life author is beyond fictional characters, but comic versions of themselves can be omnipotent or not.
Indeed. And presence << comic version, or the external forces mentioned. Meaning not omnipotent. how does that mean hes not omnipotent? all authors are above fictional characters.
5, same question as #3
Same answer.
1, if Azathoth is all powerful, infinitely capable of doing everything and anything, omniscient, omnipresent. then yes he is omnipotent.
2, but how does author being above Yahweh makes him not omnipotent? Azathoth was created by Lovercraft, even authors have ppl above them, editors, managers, boss etc whatever.
yet he was about to die at old age and by a lousy power created by the anti spiral . he has 0 chances to beat any DC powerful beings.
STTGL is just a well elaborated plot , like Arable toying with planets and the universe. in reality they can die and that robot can be destroyed quite easily.
Demon bane is a good match for Lucifer.
I think the anime team takes it not sure about the endless though
no, STTGL is not beating Mandrakk , anti monitor , endless and so on.
@pern: So if Aza can not kill him then obviously he is not the presences equal; he is not omnipotent. The presence, on the other hand, created DC which shows obvious omnipotence, even though the GEB stalemated him, the GEB is not technically within DC; it lives on the brink of going into the primal monitor which is why it does not count.
And destroying multi verses with no effort? Lucifer destroyed the mansions of silence which houses infinite rejected creations, universes, and dimensions with his presence and Michael can erase creation and all the multiverses within with his death-life demiurgic power releasing blast, Mxy has destroyed the mainstream DC multiverse before (ask clownprince) and synnar thare demiurge created creation. The original source overloaded the spectre with a taste of his power that is nigh omnipotence omniscience and omnipresence so that spectre became everything in creation. In marvel we have thanos with the HOTU who basically became the marvel source of all things, LT who exists at the center of every universe and judges only multiversal threats with a wave of his hand. Beyonder who shatters billions of universes with one strike.....
All created by either TOAA or Yahweh. The GEB is the dark side of Yahweh and stalemated the presence who created those beings so as I said, you really need to come up with something that can > GEB stalemaing the creator of DC.
Anyway, that is not a feat at all, that is just a vague discription of what he can do, not an actual feat that should support your claim.
And what bigger fish? How are there bigger fish? In Marvel, who is more powerful than TOAA? In DC, who is more powerful than Yahweh? we only put them together because this is a battles forum.
@skyroid: Again, way too much rambling for an extremely simple point:
Real world author is always above the characters. But in DC, a fictional counterpart, or the 'external forces' exist , which created presence (NOT the real world author. That's a reference to the comic counterpart, as you already suggested actual author can't interact with fiction in any manner). You can say that's equal to toaa or azathoth. But if presence is equal to them, it means presence is equal to the forces that created him, which is not true.
@reikai: I agree that Azathoth is omnipotent, though here is one limitation that he has, in that he is not omniscient and is a complete idiot, which is why he is called "The Blind Idiot God".
How most would say that "If he's not omniscient then he can't be omnipotent" though I personally don't think you need to be all-knowing to be all-powerful.
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