@Klandicar: No. Apocalypse was already weak before Stryfe fought him. Don't try to twist the truth.
@Klandicar said:
" @Korg said:
" @Klandicar said:
"I see no evidence of Apocalypse being weak. "
Try reading the scans you posted.
"
Try explaining how Apocalypse or Hulk stands up to a mind buster from Stryfe when he plants it on them? "
Hulk stands no chance against Stryfe, but Apocalypse certainly does.
@iLLituracy said:
" I'm not big on Stryfe or Cable, what are some of their telepathic feats, because Hulk has shown some resistance against telepathic opponents [off the top of my head, I remember Selene being one of them]. I'm currently undecided, Hulk has a chance, I think. "
Telepathy does not matter. Stryfe can rip Hulk in half with his telekinesis. Stryfe defeated X-Man once.
%Proxy-Connection: keep-alive Cache-Control: max-age=0 The New Poo Poo List said:
" @Klandicar said:
" Wrong. Stryfe said that because Apocalypse is weak in comparison to Stryfe. He is unknowing and uncertain because Stryfe is from the future and Apocalypse didnt know who he was yet. If Apocalypse was weak then why was he weak? Just because he wasnt expecting Stryfe doesnt excuse the beating Stryfe gave him. I guess your going to say Apoc had the swine flu...right? "
Hey, dumb@$$.... It's been made quite clear that the Apocalypse in X-Cutioner's Song was weak. Are you listening? Must I post a scan that you previously posted to show you what you missed? You're a grown-@$$ man, aren't you? Stop looking at just the pictures like you're in kindergarten and actually read what you post.
As Korg stated, Apocalypse was lifted out of his Lazarus chamber prematurely by Stryfe. Hence, he wasn't fully powered before the fight.
I knew I had you on my Poo Poo list for a reason. "
Will Stryfe's shields stop a thunder clap? I think they would personally. That is the key to winning here so I give it to Stryfe. Other than thunderclap Hulk aint got much ranged attacks and Stryfe can applesauce his brain before he gets close.
World War Hulk would wreck Stryfe badly but it looks like just plain old Hulk is being used here.
YOu guys must be crazy agaist Hulk? Hulk Smashes this Strike i mean Stryfe. How can you compare little dead pool scan to Hulk. THe hulk has fought many Villians and Heroes with similar powers and it didnt work. I am not even talking about wwH or world breaker hulk, any hulk would beat this Strike. I doubt he can survive a punch from Hulk much less his thunder clapp.
"Black Bolt couldn't even stop WWHulk and Black Bolt can stop a planet. The Sentry's power of a thousand suns didn't rip the Hulk apart. Think of the Hulk's body like you would think of Doomsday which even Superman can't rip apart. "
you do know that WWHULK only faced a Skrull BB which did'nt have nowhere near the same level of power BB does?!
Stryfe. Realistically, there's not a whole lot you can do when your opponent can levitate you and you lack ranged attacks, while he has a bunch of them to choose from (which include making a smoothie out of your mind).
Sorry for the late reply dude, internet was down a couple of days. no i get you what you mean. I just think his telekinetic power can rip the hulks arm of. I think his mind would blow up trying. Ripping Hulks arms of is not an easy task, be it physically or any other. And while he is trying to rip his arms of, Hulk get pissed of and attack with fury. If Hulk fails to get a hold of him, he will just get more pissed, and will eventually catch him.....IMO ;)
So people keep saying that the big mean green killing machine doesn't have any ranged attacks? Personally I don't believe he needs any to ensure victory here. He's impervious to mediocre to high degrees of telepathy. Telekinesis is a form of force , it is not magic. What kind of force would be required to rip off the Hulk's arm or any of his limbs do you reckon? And he's not just going to stand around appreciating life while Stryfe attacks him with his telekinesis. He could easily shrug off the first attempt, because I'm pretty darn sure Stryfe's telekinesis isn't strong enough to incapacitate Hulk, jump up 1000 miles into the air and stomp down on Stryfe like he was ant man.
As for ranged attacks, what's stopping Hulk's power claps/thunderclaps from blowing Stryfe away and out of the battlefield?
Well, how is the Hulk going to move once Stryfe holds him in telekinetic stasis? Besides, Stryfe has these telekinetic force fields to protect himself from any type of physical attack. "
Is his TK strong enough to hold down a creature of a strength class far above 100? He is only capable of moving and manipulating extremely large and heavy objects through concentration. And this is just talking about inanimate objects that aren't trying to break your TK hold on them by throwing out punches capable of shattering mountains.
You may have a point with the force fields, but the Hulk has been seen to make the Invisible Woman bleed from her nose before by pounding on her force field. He didn't hang around long enough till Susan fell unconscious or he would have gotten through. However, I am uncertain of whether Susan was as powerful back then as she is with her powers these days.
Considering Stryfe's incredible TK power & formidable TP, I think he'd be able to take Hulk. When Onslaught was controlling Hulk, Cable was briefly able to hold his own, and he didn't have a fraction of the power Stryfe has.
@Edamame: Hmm, I did some research on the character and Stryfe does indeed seem to wield incredible TK powers. Not that I wasn't familiar with his abilities, I was just trying to get some statistical facts on the guy. And you're right, I had forgotten about his encounter with the X-men. The concept of Hulk's strength and increasing power levels is quite ambiguous. In theory his strength can be limitless, so if Stryfe or anybody else for that matter were to try to hold him down by whatever means he would just keep getting madder till he managed to break out. He was able to support a mountain weighing a 150 billion tonnes which vastly outweighs even the combined strength of all of the X-men Stryfe faced. But on many occasions Hulk has passed out or was killed or something else happened before he reached that point. So I guess it comes down to the question of whether or not Stryfe could hold Hulk down and knock him out before he gets really fumed.
Sorry, I wasn't alluding to Doomwar. Unfortunately I can't remember where I read that but it was the Hulk in person and Susan was trying to protect some unconscious Avengers.
@R_o_NIN: excellent points. And i agree. The question is, can he hold him down long enough to KO him. I dont think he can.
@Edamame: " Well, he was able to hold down a team of X-Men including Colossus, Wolverine, Rogue and others all in telekinetic stasis and he wasn't even trying really" Piotr and Rouge are strong, but both of them together with the Thing, Ares, Namor and i dont know who combined are easier to hold down than the Hulk. If he isn't KOd real fast, he will get real mad and imo no TK or force field will stop him. Sues force field got shredded when she was protecting her husband and she got almost KOd doing it. Bleeding from the nose and ears. Storm and Torch went Thunder and Nova on his ass at the same time and he didn't even scratch a little. Also you mentioned when Onslaught controlled Hulk. He only controlled the professor. And the professor even though starting at 100 tons, isn't that strong compared to the other Hulks (not Fixit though) And imo nothing Stryfe has done to others like crushing a persons inner organs, wont work on the Hulk. His inner organs are not any normal organs, but the friggin HULKS. And crushing them is requires more force than ive seen Stryfe has or even Cable. Maybe ive missed something. But imo Hulk is very underrated in this forum!
"Sues force field got shredded when she was protecting her husband and she got almost KOd doing it."
That is the incident I was referring to. Sue was protecting Reed not the Avengers. Thanks Greendevil. Don't remember the part about Storm and Torch though, maybe I never finished reading it. And I couldn't agree with you more that the Hulk is seriously underrated on Comic Vine. I mean, I realize that Superman could beat Hulk in single combat but I find it ridiculous how many people seem to disregard Hulk as a challenge for Superman :S
@Edamame said:
This is true, but Stryfe certainly has the potential to wield the telekinetic and telepathic power that fully-powered Cable has. However, Stryfe simply hasn't. I believe that the reason for this is because he is a villain and Marvel likes to make villains less powerful. Note that Magneto is not really a villain, but rather an extreme anti-hero. The points that you mentioned are all great, but let's look at other scenarios. Let's say that Stryfe decided to not only crush Hulk's brain, but also decides to eventually snap his neck, twist his kneecaps, burst his eyes open, crush his internal organs and rip his muscles open. Now, how fast is the Hulk's reaction time? I am sure that Stryfe can do this in sequential order.
Well, the Hulk's organs are nevertheless still organs, whether or not they are really big or durable. That is an irrefutable fact. It will just require a bit more effort on Stryfe's part. Also, let's just say that Stryfe decides to do all of this while he is in the air, where the Hulk can't reach him. What would the Hulk do then? "
I think we all agree that a strenuous amount of TK force would be required to achieve any of those effects on the Hulk which you have mentioned. Hulk was blinded before by Wolverine and he healed within under an hour so I doubt damaging his eyes is going to be too much of an advantage to Stryfe except maybe buying him some time.
But that's not the point I want to emphasize. I think there was something about the significance of the size of the molecules of Hulk's body in the book where Doc Samson separates Banner's consciousness and body from the Hulks. They give his physique extraordinary durability and density which should make it nearly impossible for Stryfe to hurt his internal organs as they are formed of the same molecules. But if we assume that it is indeed within Stryfe's ability to do so and he attempts to crush Hulk's organs in a sequential order, each effort should take him a substantial amount time and concentration. The Hulk could use this delay to attack Stryfe, easily breaking through whatever force field Stryfe uses to contain him as his concentration is now divided. And I would like to disagree with you on the point that the Hulk can't reach him in the air. In a calm state Hulk can leap up to a height of 3 miles. Stryfe's only options are to either fly around trying to dodge the Hulk, in which case he would be unable to launch a direct attack, or to flee the scene of battle.
" Stryfe shuts Hulk's brain off. Or tears him apart with his mind. Stryfe is a monolithic telepath/telekinetic. At worst, this is a stalemate. Hulk cannot get at Stryfe without permission. "
LOL firstly, come on bro. Stryfe in the air is going to stop Hulk? How many flyer's have got their asses handed to them by him when attacking from air? How many airplanes? Its not like He cant throw a couple of trees or half a mountain at Stryfe and bring him down to close combat. I wonder what his face would feel like after getting a Christmas tree in it, and also how his TK would work lol. Im sorry i just dont see Stryfe beating him. The size of his organs i dont know, but crushing them is no easy task, and its not like he wont resist, that i know. Basically Stryfe has to Knock him out before he can react imo. Other than that, Hulk wins. I just dont see stryfe breaking his knees and arms with his TK, not unpunished.
" @R_o_NIN: 1. Okay, but you haven't addressed the other bolded possibilities. Please do so. 2. You don't think that Stryfe can fly more than 3 miles up into the air? May I ask why? "
You didn't get my point. I was talking about ALL of those possibilities when I said it would be difficult for Stryfe to impose his TK on Hulk in such a way as to damage him without having to touch him, be it crushing Hulk's brain, snapping his neck, twisting his kneecaps, bursting his eyes open, crushing his internal organs or ripping his muscles open.
I do think that Stryfe can fly up more than 3 miles into the air. But how is he meant to take the Hulk down with his TK from 3 miles above the ground? Hulk's reflexes and reaction speed may not be top drawer, but he's both quick and durable enough to get around or overcome attacks launched from a distance of over 3 miles.
In any battle you have to consider and respect the characterization and persona of the fictional characters. Marvel didn't create the Hulk so he could be owned in a fight by the likes of Stryfe. That's the main reason why I don't reckon Stryfe could beat the Hulk.
Yeah dude those are impressive feats and should be highlighted rightfully so. But a bomb campaign against the Hulk, is not the same as a fight with him. But point taken. ok change the trees to cars, rocks or anything you want, you know what i mean. Its not like if Hulk is going to stand there helpless doing nothing while Stryfe is trying to break his body. And even if the flying cars and rocks dosent hurt him, they will make him loose focus on his TK.
What im saying is, sooner or later Hulk will get his hands on him, and then the real ripping can Begin.
stryfe has enough TK to shake the moon he has alot of raw power but that alone will get him no where with hulk but maybe he can hold hulk off long enough to do something telepathically.
Stryfe doesn't have the power to kill Hulk, shaking the Moon is laughable to someone who shrugs off kinetic attacks that shatter planets the size of Mars and TK that overpowers Earths rotation.
@xargo: How would he stop Hulk from healing exatcly? Also Hulk's brain is still as hyperdurable as the rest of him.
In a contest of raw power Stryfe seems to find himself outmatched, given the feats he has. Applying TK to his insides is a good idea, but it probably won't work, every part of Hulk is incredibly durable. He might win by BFR. Other than that he is on the losing side.
@xargo: He is unlikely to even think of doing so, if he even manages to damage the brain in the first place; it's also a non solution, Stryfe would need to remain focused on that for the rest of eternity, as the second he lets go Hulk heals and gets right back to the fight. You also have to consider that Hulk literally grew a second head out of his stomach, so the approch is likely to fail.
@xargo: How would he stop Hulk from healing exatcly? Also Hulk's brain is still as hyperdurable as the rest of him.
In a contest of raw power Stryfe seems to find himself outmatched, given the feats he has. Applying TK to his insides is a good idea, but it probably won't work, every part of Hulk is incredibly durable. He might win by BFR. Other than that he is on the losing side.
If Hulk has survived inhaling Pandoras box which clocked in at 133.5 Hercs(one Herc being the maximum amount of power Hercules can expand in one blow), so basically Hulk inhaled 133.5 Hercs punches inside him, something that would decimate and kill almost any other powerhouse yet Hulk just walked it off then nothing Stryfe does will phase... i mean we are talking about a guy that survived decapitation and still continued fighting even without a head. Stryfe is gonna pee his pants here since he found a new daddy.
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