Strongest Marvel and DC character Melkor/Morgoth can defeat?

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KingOfAsh

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Melkor is the second strongest character in Arda (Middle-Earth planet), though he may be third after Ungolliant. He destroyed the Sun sometime in Ardas history. Arda was originally indended to be flat, but was later changed to being a solar system, with the planet with Middle Earth on it called Ambar. However the name "Final Edit Melkor" doesn't have a good ring to it, but that's the version to use in this one.

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OptimusPalm

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#2  Edited By OptimusPalm

Melkor has at various times been scared of Ungoliant, Tulkus, Orome, and Fingolfin but is also supposed to be the 'most powerful' of the Valar. He has also been injured by Fingolfin (who is just an Elf - albeit one of the most powerful of the Noldor elves).

Melkor has never faced anybody with super speed.

His vile deeds are usually long thought out and take years to take shape.

I think he would be almost invulnerable to magic though.

I think there are quite a few characters from marvel/DC that could beat him.

But i do think, given prep and enough time, he could infiltrate any Hero organisation and corrupt them.

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KingOfAsh

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@optimuspalm: Well I know many Marvel characters have been beaten in fights by those weaker than them. And Melkor did destroy the Sun.

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OptimusPalm

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@optimuspalm: Well I know many Marvel characters have been beaten in fights by those weaker than them. And Melkor did destroy the Sun.

It wasnt a sun. He stole a jewel made by Feanor that stored the light from the trees of the valar (that Melkor had previously destroyed). The jewel burned his hand.

The sun and the moon didnt come about until a while after this.

I guess you could say that he destroyed 'the equivalent' of the sun. But only if you are fine by saying a potato is the equivalent of the moon (if there is no moon).

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LordGalactus

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IG Thanos

Mxyzptlk

Michael and Lucifer

Mandrakk

LT

One Above All

Molecule Man

Beyonder

There really aren't alot. Melkor/Morgoth was close to Eru in power, who was basically god.

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bigcimmerian

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He could probably defeat Aquaman from DC and Namor from Marvel.

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eternityx

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#7  Edited By eternityx

@lordgalactus: Every one of those characters could blink Morgoth from existence, he's done nothing to suggest that he's more powerful than even Thanos. Also it's impossible to be close to an omnipotent unless you are omnipotent. An omnipotent being is always infinitely more powerful than one that isn't omnipotent.

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FlashKnight

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#8  Edited By FlashKnight

TOAA and Prescence. That's it. Maybe Spectre if Prescence gives him enough power.

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PrinceAragorn1

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I don't think people are realizing something important. The version in question is final form morgoth, which is the weakest version. His best feats are destroying trees of sun and moon, which isn't even remotely close to what people like morningstar and LT can do.

Strongest of his forms will be pre-song melkor, who created and embodied corruption (NOT that he corrupted the universe, he created the very concept of corruption, like creating say.. heat, or oblivion). Only thing he lacked from eru was secret fire.

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noah_ouellette

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@princearagorn1: ik this was a long ass time ago. But final morgoth is the prophecized morgoth who ends up battling illuvatar and coming close to winning, so morgoth is near omnipotence and I would put him on the level of the presence, but not TOAA because of his power

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PrinceAragorn1

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@princearagorn1: ik this was a long ass time ago. But final morgoth is the prophecized morgoth who ends up battling illuvatar and coming close to winning, so morgoth is near omnipotence and I would put him on the level of the presence, but not TOAA because of his power

If you're talking about dagor dagorath, he Eonwe kils him Turin's sword iirc. He doesn't fight eru himself as far as I know, in fact, the very source of melkor's rebellion themes was eru himself.

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Baron_von_Santa

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@noah_ouellette: The Presence equals TOAA. I think you mean Michael. But then,when has he shown multiversal feats?

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noah_ouellette

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@baron_von_santa: currently I'm talking about the dc and marvel verse gods, there was an argument where illuvatar is listed as powerful as the presence and morgoth is decently close to illuvatars power

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noah_ouellette

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PrinceAragorn1

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@princearagorn1: no I'm aware of that but not what I'm talking about

I don't know when melkor is supposed to face eru, much to my embarassment. can you elaborate?

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noah_ouellette

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@princearagorn1: you know how it's prophecized he is killed permeanately by the human? Well there's anther prophecy after that that if he isn't defeated by him he will face illuvatar with all the anger he gathered in the void

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TheGrayGhost

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He could reasonably , at his most powerful, beat ...Namor given iirc the Valar were causing continents to break up/ change/ the entire planet in their war with him

Dude has a good shot vs any non- superspeed / non- anything class 100 brick like the hulk, because of his own versatility and their lack thereof

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Creeper113

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It depends on at what point Morgoth is fighting this battle.

In the Music of Arda Melkor, and all of the Vala are like the Living Tribunal level of their universe sort of an extension of Eru's being, the collective conscience of the universe. Once they enter the realm, during the Spring of Arda and adorn themselves as the children of Illuvatar their powers are now contained within the world, and they become more like a standard pantheon of gods, Manwe is Sky Father level, Melkor is his equal or slightly superior in power. By the time Melkor is in chains his power is depleted to the point that he functions much more like a Trickster God during his captivity. After stealing the Silmarils and fleeing back to his fortress he's more or less like a high level Demon Lord with a splash of Divine Emperor.

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Eisenfauste

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Melkor is being overrated. He doesn't have good enough feats to take on anyone in class 100.

He has "potential" feats being second to Eru who created the planet/universe IIRC

I could see how some people rate him so high but on paper feats go against him.

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TheGrayGhost

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#20  Edited By TheGrayGhost

Melkor is being overrated. He doesn't have good enough feats to take on anyone in class 100.

He has "potential" feats being second to Eru who created the planet/universe IIRC

I could see how some people rate him so high but on paper feats go against him.

Just as that one thing, Sauron after a specific power down, surviving having the equivalent of a continent dropped on him puts the Valar and Maiar at class 100 levels just fine. Heck a Balrog , lower than even Sauron can survive a fall to depths that are so deep that they haven't even been measured, have his fires dowsed out , then keep fighting for days melting snow caps and creating such lightning and thunder from his battle with a non holding back Maiar, that can be seen from afar, before only being stopped by a SECOND fall from a mountain, crushing a side of it as he fell

Heck even an ELF like Feanor kept fighting for hours after getting set ablaze. The reaction of most noral people to getting set on fire is..." AARRGGHH! FIRE! IM DYING!" We have Finrod breaking chains AFTER days of starvation/ torture and a prolonged sorcery battle with Sauron himself, we have his sister Galadriel literally singing and breaking down stone walls.We have Fingolfin stabbing people after having the weight of a fallen hill, Melkor's weight after explicit depowerings BTW, having dropped on him. Heck even HUMAN armies in the First Age kept fighting non stop for DAYS without food or water

So when it comes to Melkor at his most powerful " singing mountains and volcanoes to existence" levels, sure he comes off as AT LEAST a class 100, with more versatility than most to boot

Classing him as universal level is something entirely different though, considering this was a universe where the sun and moon were literally people flying about.

Dude's fine at class 100 levels. more than that is based on hyperbole

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Eisenfauste

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#21  Edited By Eisenfauste

@thegrayghost: Except his powers don't translate into combat applicable. He couldn't even tag Fingolfin who would be a top tier street lvler. Class 100's like thing, namor, and even She Hulk would be able to smack him around. It wouldn't be an easy fight at all, but based on his fight with the elf he probably won't fare to well against people who have soaked WWH's punches.

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TheGrayGhost

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@thegrayghost: Except his powers don't translate into combat applicable. He couldn't even tag Fingolfin who would be a top tier street lvler. Class 100's like thing, namor, and even She Hulk would be able to smack him around. It wouldn't be an easy fight at all, but based on his fight with the elf he probably won't fare to well against people who have soaked WWH's punches.

How does " having a continent being dropped on him" not translate to combat feats. How does " the geography of the world changed as a side effect of their fights " not translate to feats? How does " sing mountains/ rivers/ oceans into existence not translate as a feat?" How does " raise a fortress from the ground, after not only a depowering but an actual attack by a being that swallowed diamonds and light itself for food" not translate as a feat?

Just to pick one of these. What happens when Morgoth drops a mountain sized fortress on Namor? What happens when he becomes a pure energy form instead of just a physical one? How's Namor hurting him then? What happens when a being who at his peak was explicitly millions of times more powerful than a dude who managed to kill a dragon that blotted out the sun and was so huge it crushed a mountain with his fall,punches Namor?

Also which " top tier street leveller" can keep ticking after a weight of a hill is dropped on them AFTER blows from a hammer that was creating craters on the ground with its misses? which top tier street leveller can keep fighting after being literally set on fire for hours against creatures that LOLnope falls from mountains? Which top tier street leveller can sing down stone walls?

Fingolfin is hardly a slow poke, given even humans in that universe react to arrows already fired. but in any case, this fight comes AFTER a specific depowering for Morgoth , and is explicitly noted at the end that Morgoth lost his " raise mountains for shits and giggles" over the years, long before the end

In any case, irrelevant point given Namor/ She Hulk's less than impressive speed or the fact that they can't him in an intagible form

Soaked WWH's punches? Wolverine levels then. Cool. Below his levels actually, given their respective performances against the dude

Or, this isn't really the best arc to cite for the strength feats given they have far better, actually valid ones in other arcs.

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sinikettu

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@kingofash: Melkor didn't destroy the sun get your facts straight people.

Sun was created AFTER Melkor topples the pillars of light (Illuin and Ormal) and the world is plunged into darkness; the Valar had to create the sun to illuminate the world again after Ungoliant had drunk the two trees Laurelin and Telperion dry.

the Valar took the last living fruit of Laurelin and the last living flower of Telperion and used them to create the Moon and Sun, which remained a part of Arda, but were separate from Ambar (the world). The first rising of the sun over Ambar heralded the end of the Years of the Trees, and the start of the Years of the Sun, which last to the present day.

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Eisenfauste

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@thegrayghost:

How does " having a continent being dropped on him" not translate to combat feats.

Why are you trying to use this as a durability feat for Sauron? He got obliterated when this happened, his essence survived but he was severely weakened after this event.

the geography of the world changed as a side effect of their fights "

No this is pretty decent.

How does " sing mountains/ rivers/ oceans into existence not translate as a feat?"

Its a feat but not combat applicable.

raise a fortress from the ground, after not only a depowering but an actual attack by a being that swallowed diamonds and light itself for food"

See above.

What happens when Morgoth drops a mountain sized fortress on Namor? What happens when he becomes a pure energy form instead of just a physical one?

Not in character for him to do this or he would have done it against his fight with fingolfin instead of attempting to whack him with Grond.

Also which " top tier street leveller" can keep ticking after a weight of a hill is dropped on them AFTER blows from a hammer that was creating craters on the ground with its misses?

Don't know why you are getting into this I mentioned high street level characters have better combat speed than he does.

Fingolfin is hardly a slow poke, given even humans in that universe react to arrows already fired. but in any case, this fight comes AFTER a specific depowering for Morgoth , and is explicitly noted at the end that Morgoth lost his " raise mountains for shits and giggles" over the years, long before the end

I admitted he was fast, like I said verging toward higher street combat speed. Even fully powered Morgoth never displayed combat reality warping, or amazing combat speed so I don't see how him not being as powerful as he was has much bearing on this fight. It will be a physical altercation much like the fight with the Fingol.

In any case, irrelevant point given Namor/ She Hulk's less than impressive speed or the fact that they can't him in an intagible form

He won't go intangible, not in character. Namor is pretty fast especially when he is flying, which Morgoth is going to have trouble hitting him, and up close She hulk wouldn't have trouble dodging, she is faster than you give her credit. Also hits that make craters in the ground isn't really that impressive. She tanks missile's casually that would result in large craters on the ground.

Soaked WWH's punches? Wolverine levels then. Cool. Below his levels actually, given their respective performances against the dude

Wolverines levels? Lol he ate the blast of a nuke and survived. Not to mention WWH hulk beat down someone who tore up chunks of the moon the size of rhode island....

Professor hulk, someone far below WWH, was able to punch through a bunker which could withstand a direct nuclear attack. Now picture someone 10x more powerful and you have World War Hulk. The thing soaked several of his hits which is incredible impressive.

The Thing and Namor would give Morgoth a fantastic fight and I daresay beat him in a physical altercation...

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TheGrayGhost

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@eisenfauste:

Why are you trying to use this as a durability feat for Sauron?

Because he is specifically weaker than a peak Morgoth

He got obliterated when this happened, his essence survived but he was severely weakened after this event.

This came after he was already weakened by Luthien in the first place, so that's just fine

Its a feat but not combat applicable.

It's applicable just fine when weaker beings like Galadriel can sing down stone walls. Morgoth being able to sing mountains and volcanoes ( espescially handy vs Namor btw) into existence means he can both just drop one on Namor and/or hurt Namor just by singing, given the Galadriel and mountain feats

.See above

Raising a fortress from...nothing at all is pretty potent reality warping espescially considering how weakened he was at this point

Not in character for him to do this or he would have done it against his fight with fingolfin instead of attempting to whack him with Grond.

It was also "not in character" for him to beg for mercy and cringe at a Maiar's feat after his last defeat, as opposed to duking with out with Tulkas and fighting to the last the first time round

or

" I'm now inexplicably going to ignore the fact that character specifically lost his powers over the years due to chaanneling them all into other creatures. One of whom was a dragon that blotted out the sun. or even in this very war, releasing rivers of fire to burn out entire plains"

Hey if we want to talk about " in character' stuff for Namor, there's nothing more " in character" for Namor than losing to street levellers these days, for umm....reasons

otherwise, i thought we were talking about both characters fighting to the full extent of their abilities, at peak levels and not " depowered by can still release rivers of fire" levels

Don't know why you are getting into this I mentioned high street level characters have better combat speed than he does.

I thought you were talking about general stats. My bad

I admitted he was fast, like I said verging toward higher street combat speed. Even fully powered Morgoth never displayed combat reality warping, or amazing combat speed so I don't see how him not being as powerful as he was has much bearing on this fight. It will be a physical altercation much like the fight with the Fingolfin

Certainly it would have mattered if Namor, Hulk(s) etc had actual impressive combat speeds themselves. When they have a history of having street levllers like Cap jump around dodging them as a conistent thing for decades in nearly every single fight....well speed comes off as a less than vital element here

He won't go intangible, not in character.

Cool, so Namor's fighting at " lose to BP levels"? Hulk at "lose to Cap " levels

Heck surfer is absolutey gone for ,in this case

" in character" can mean so many things.....but sadly its used most often hereabouts in terms of " character A is not going to fight to the full extent of his abilities, but my fav character absolutey is!"

When Morgoth does things like set Arda aflame , change the geography of the planet in the first war against the Valar, plan and sneak atack under impenetrable darkness, bringing specific equipment to steal the light , and not go rushing in blindly with only physical powers, when he goes among men unseen to start wars and slaughter in the east, rather than yknow actually break them to pieces with his bare hands like he could have, when inferiors like Finrod, Sauron, Galadriel, Balrogs, Gandalf flat out use sorcery in their fights, when Melkor does things like flat out mind control Hurin and creates werewolves with specially magicked meats for his pets..........him not using these things in a fight come off as a shaky argument especially considering he may have already lost these powers by the fight, and reduced to just " craters/ hill" level blows

Namor is pretty fast especially when he is flying,

Not in terms of actual reactions, no. Its not like Morgoth cant change form and fly

which Morgoth is going to have trouble hitting him,

whereas Namor isnt hitting him at all once he goes intangible

and up close She hulk wouldn't have trouble dodging, she is faster than you give her credit.

her speed is comparable to hulks, ie, less than most street levellers, faster than real world humans

Also hits that make craters in the ground isn't really that impressive.

yeah....if you ignore the " weight of a fallen hill" part

She tanks missile's casually that would result in large craters on the ground.

Whereas Morgoth tanks blows that change the face of the planet that doesnt come off as overtly impressive

Wolverines levels? Lol he ate the blast of a nuke and survived.

He also went down to a single karate chop by daredevil. obviously matt's chop>>> nuke

or, wolverine's consistent durabiity / healing factor isn't such that say....spidey can't KO him, much less a nuke

Not to mention WWH hulk beat down someone who tore up chunks of the moon the size of rhode island....

The fake version of someone who at one point KOd him with a whisper...meh

While we are about , she hulk sure made him bleed, something she hasnt done to any other version of the hulk, while Ben rearranged his facial features in a way he has never managed against any previous version of the hulk....WWHs durability is ......suspect to say the least

Professor hulk, someone far below WWH, was able to punch through a bunker which could withstand a direct nuclear attack

Prof Hulk, "someone far below WWH " was also able to nearly one shot Juggernaut as opposed to....struggling against Cain before he even used the gem and then running away real fast before he came back

I keep warning you to not use that massively inconsistent arc, you don't listen

. Now picture someone 10x more powerful and you have World War Hulk.

Feats sure back that one up..just to pick as one example, i dunno wolverine again, the dude who got one shotted by gray hulk taking 7 from WWH before going down

The thing soaked several of his hits which is incredible impressive.

It's less impressive than the times Ben's soaked several hits from the versions with actually credible feats

The Thing and Namor would give Morgoth a fantastic fight and I daresay beat him in a physical altercation..

If it were a purely physical altercation...maybe. just to pick one example, Namor messing up weather patterns throughout the eastern coast as a side effect of colliding with hulk, compares nicely to Morgoth

But then again, there's no reason this should be physical battle

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zgawgaw

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He destroys everyone in the DC and Marvel multiverse nobody in either verse is on par with Melkor, Lucifer Morningstar would lose to Melkor

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deactivated-5f36de50edb16

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@zgawgaw said:

He destroys everyone in the DC and Marvel multiverse nobody in either verse is on par with Melkor, Lucifer Morningstar would lose to Melkor

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You bumped a 7 year old thread just to say that?? LMFAO

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ANewComicvineUs

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@lordgalactus: Every one of those characters could blink Morgoth from existence, he's done nothing to suggest that he's more powerful than even Thanos. Also it's impossible to be close to an omnipotent unless you are omnipotent. An omnipotent being is always infinitely more powerful than one that isn't omnipotent.

Lore puts him at above outerversal, i can send u scans if u want.

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Zxzzzxzfz2

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Melkor destroy the entire Marvel and DC he's omniversal not even Lucifer Morningstar can defeat this beast

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NameNotFound

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#32  Edited By NameNotFound

While I'm not going to beat his dick off to outerversal or omniversal (come on, guys), but his stronger forms like his true form, when he first entered Arda, and after his capture and destruction of Utumno is pretty consistently universe+ level, with the latter being solidly multi-galaxy+ level. At Dagor Dagorath, he's capable of destroying the Sun, but we don't know whether or not it's comparable to our sun, or how strong Melkor is at this point. I've seen a few people say he wounded Eru during Dagor Dagorath, but I haven't been able to find anything regarding that, so take that with a MASSIVE grain of salt. If that's true, though, that should put him at SOLIDLY multiversal level, and MAYBE Outerversal level depending on how you interperet Illuvatar.

So, it really depends on which version you're fighting. I would assume Melkor's true form, so I guess anyone below multiversal level is a no-go.

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Lucifer10

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@namenotfound: "If that's true, though, that should put him at SOLIDLY multiversal level, and MAYBE Outerversal level depending on how you interperet Illuvatar."

Lol, Outerversal level Morgoth, nice joke.

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Lucifer10

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At his best He can beat post crisis darkseid/highfather.

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HGedney

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@zxzzzxzxxzzx: that is a no, you are wanking Melkor, Melkor can't take over a single world, as for Eru? His greatest feat is sinking a island kingdom.

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HGedney

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@zxzzzxzfz2: no, he can't not, the higher ranked characters in both Marvel and DC destroys Melkor so hard it's not even funny, and if Melkor is so powerful, why can't he take over a single world?

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HGedney

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@zazaxzxa1: Nope, can't even take over a single world.

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HGedney

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@zxxzxzca: You are wanking Melkor, and no he can't take over a single world.

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HGedney

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#41  Edited By HGedney

@zgawgaw: wtf!? No, Melkor can't not even take over a single world.

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HGedney

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#42  Edited By HGedney

@eternityx: agreed with the first points, also any of those characters can kick the crap out of Melkor too, and Melkor can't even take over a single world.

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HGedney

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#43  Edited By HGedney

Actually, there are no characters in Tolkien's work are multiversal, universal and even galactic, there is only one world in Tolkien's work called middle earth, while in comics there are many worlds, many universes, and a big multiverse. The big bad villains of both comics, Marvel and DC are very powerful then Melkor can ever dream of, they can take over worlds, and etc, while Melkor never did take over middle earth.

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NameNotFound

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@lucifer10: I personally don't believe it for a second, but I've seen some people interpret it that way due to Tolkien's... Vague description of the Valar before Eä and Illuvatar as a whole. I personally place him at Low Multiversal level at his absolute peak, but you COULD theoretically make a case for Outerversal Morgoth.

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NameNotFound

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@hgedney: That's just fully not true. Varda created the stars and set them in their place, a single fruit from a tree that Yavanna created with her own power became the Sun (and that tree is massive with potentially thousands of fruits), Eru and the Ainur created the universe, IIRC Earendil's ship Vingilot became a star (I may be wrong on that one, I haven't read the book in a while), and Melkor ruined the first theme that would have created the universe. There are absolutely galactic and universal feats in the series.

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Six-Deuce

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#47  Edited By Six-Deuce

@namenotfound: The issue with using Illuvitar’s choir is that it is intended by Tolkien that Eru is omnipotent and he is powering the song. Other valar contributing their creativity (even trying to change the song like Melkor) does not give them any clear attribution of quantifiable potency as there is an omnipotent powering the whole process and wanting his creations (valar/maiar) to participate.

Melkor needs to be judged on his merits separated from Illuvitar’s choir.

OT: hard to say due to Tolkien’s style of writing being deliberately mysterious. I’d say he beats the super skrull, Ronan, Namor etc without getting in depth with magic he should possess from looking at maiar.

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NameNotFound

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@six-deuce: Even so, Melkor stopped the First and Second themes to the point that Eru got mad at him. So he was still stopping the creation of a universe that is being powered by a omnipotent (at least in this verse) being, which is a pretty high-tier feat.

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HGedney

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#50  Edited By HGedney

@namenotfound: that does not make any sense at all, how the hell is Eru multiversal while Melkor is outerversal, last time I checked there is no multiverse in Tolkien's work, again Melkor can't take over a single world, while Eru's biggest feats is creating the world, sinking a island kingdom and pushed Gollum down into the lava of mount doom.