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#1 Edited by Inconvenient_Truth (2362 posts) - - Show Bio

This is a battle simply of who is stronger.

#2 Posted by Raw_Material (3207 posts) - - Show Bio

Juggernaut FTW.

#3 Posted by BlackWind (4027 posts) - - Show Bio

Juggernaut. And I don't even like him.

#4 Posted by WWQ7 (466 posts) - - Show Bio

Juggernaut is stronger.

#5 Edited by THC (367 posts) - - Show Bio

What are the highest lifting/strength feats - not speculation - for both characters?

#6 Edited by WWQ7 (466 posts) - - Show Bio

@thc: Barda's biggest lifting feat is shouldering a continent while she was on her knees. I don't know about Juggernaut's.

#7 Posted by czarny_samael666 (16629 posts) - - Show Bio

@thc said:

What are the highest feats - not speculation - for both characters?

Hmmm... Hard to say, Juggy is mostly know for his durability not strength. But I belive that stalemate in strength contest with WWHulk is a good example of his strength:

#8 Posted by czarny_samael666 (16629 posts) - - Show Bio

@thc said:

What are the highest lifting/strength feats - not speculation - for both characters?

BTW, Barda failed to overpower that continental beam. Somehow I had a bad feelings about this thread...

#9 Posted by Inconvenient_Truth (2362 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666: im confused. in another thread you said that in YOUR opinion feats shouldnt be counted as feats if they lose the fight, and IIRC hulk BFR'd juggs in that encounter. So by your own logic that feat shouldnt count for juggs. I think its obviously a strength feat but im just saying, that by YOUR logic, is shouldnt count

#10 Posted by WWQ7 (466 posts) - - Show Bio

@thc said:

What are the highest lifting/strength feats - not speculation - for both characters?

BTW, Barda failed to overpower that continental beam. Somehow I had a bad feelings about this thread...

She was laying on the floor first and managed to get on her knees with the weight of a continent holding her down, so that shows great strength.

You do know if a Colossus Vs Juggernaut thread was made everyone would say it was spite? No one is doing that here because Barda isn't a weakling and I do hope you posted all the scans and didn't leave out any.

#11 Posted by Inconvenient_Truth (2362 posts) - - Show Bio

thanks for the responses, that really helps me gauge where these 2 are, and it helps me make better battle threads.

#12 Edited by WWQ7 (466 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666: im confused. in another thread you said that in YOUR opinion feats shouldnt be counted as feats if they lose the fight, and IIRC hulk BFR'd juggs in that encounter. So by your own logic that feat shouldnt count for juggs. I think its obviously a strength feat but im just saying, that by YOUR logic, is shouldnt count

LOL Owned.

#13 Edited by WWQ7 (466 posts) - - Show Bio

thanks for the responses, that really helps me gauge where these 2 are, and it helps me make better battle threads.

I actually don't know of any strength feats for Juggernaut. I just assumed he was stronger, but I think he is more well known for his durability.

#14 Edited by czarny_samael666 (16629 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666: im confused. in another thread you said that in YOUR opinion feats shouldnt be counted as feats if they lose the fight, and IIRC hulk BFR'd juggs in that encounter. So by your own logic that feat shouldnt count for juggs. I think its obviously a strength feat but im just saying, that by YOUR logic, is shouldnt count

IT should, since I told You that there are few ways of showing Your strength:

-Koing an enemy

-lifting something large

-destroying something lare

-winning a strength contest.

Stalemate of course also tells how strong Your enemy is, because it gives us clear answer. Of course it can't be just a fight, it has to be clear strength contest. Do You know why it can't be just a fight?

Because Quicksilver is weaker than Thing, but he would win with Thing thanks to his speed.

Other similar thing is duability. Durok and Surfer - to my memory, which could failed, so better check this out if can - stalemated. Surfer couldn't hurt Durok and Durok couldn't KO surfer. Durok isn't very strong, since he doesn't have too meny strength feats. Yet, he is very, very durable, which makes him a threat to strong people. Similar with Juggernaut, who wouldn't be defeated even by Thanos or Classic Drax.

I remember only a few strngth contest:

Thor vs Hercules (stalemate)

WWHulk vs Juggernaut (draw)

Thanos vs Drax (Thanos won)

I am not sure if I ever seen any other.

Probably there are other ways of showing it, like breaking something really hard. Like adamantium or dimonds.

In some way also crushing things into something smaller is a feat too. Like creating a diamond.

@wwq7 said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

@thc said:

What are the highest lifting/strength feats - not speculation - for both characters?

BTW, Barda failed to overpower that continental beam. Somehow I had a bad feelings about this thread...

She was laying on the floor first and managed to get on her knees with the weight of a continent holding her down, so that shows great strength.

You do know if a Colossus Vs Juggernaut thread was made everyone would say it was spite? No one is doing that here because Barda isn't a weakling and I do hope you posted all the scans and didn't leave out any.

Of course it would be a spite one, because Colossus wasn't able to really prove that his strength is near WWHulk, while Juggy did it. Yet, I wouldn't use their fight as a prove, since as we know Juggernaut can't be hurt by physical power, ergo it was immposible for Colossus (or Thing, or Thor) to really hurt him.

Barda is one of these people who has a feats with weapons, but not without them (at least according to what I've seen). Blame writers, not me. Fallen One, Stardust, even Mangog in some degree (since he is suppose to be much above Thor, yet his best feat is Koing Thor) - they all lack of clear strength feats. Barda isn't alone.

@wwq7 said:

@inconvenient_truth said:

@czarny_samael666: im confused. in another thread you said that in YOUR opinion feats shouldnt be counted as feats if they lose the fight, and IIRC hulk BFR'd juggs in that encounter. So by your own logic that feat shouldnt count for juggs. I think its obviously a strength feat but im just saying, that by YOUR logic, is shouldnt count

LOL Owned.

As always in talk with You - You didn't understand.

#15 Posted by WWQ7 (466 posts) - - Show Bio

@wwq7 said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

@thc said:

What are the highest lifting/strength feats - not speculation - for both characters?

BTW, Barda failed to overpower that continental beam. Somehow I had a bad feelings about this thread...

She was laying on the floor first and managed to get on her knees with the weight of a continent holding her down, so that shows great strength.

You do know if a Colossus Vs Juggernaut thread was made everyone would say it was spite? No one is doing that here because Barda isn't a weakling and I do hope you posted all the scans and didn't leave out any.

Of course it would be a spite one, because Colossus wasn't able to really prove that his strength is near WWHulk, while Juggy did it. Yet, I wouldn't use their fight as a prove, since as we know Juggernaut can't be hurt by physical power, ergo it was immposible for Colossus (or Thing, or Thor) to really hurt him.

Barda is one of these people who has a feats with weapons, but not without them (at least according to what I've seen). Blame writers, not me. Fallen One, Stardust, even Mangog in some degree (since he is suppose to be much above Thor, yet his best feat is Koing Thor) - they all lack of clear strength feats. Barda isn't alone.


Barda's strength doesn't come from her weapon, its her super strength that dishes out the damage.Her weapon is small which limits her strength. If she can do all those feats with that tiny weapon, she could do more damage with her fists.

#16 Posted by Inconvenient_Truth (2362 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666: oh so now youre denying you said that feats dont count unless you win the fight? do you really want me to go back to the thread and copy paste it here and embarrass you? Probably shouldnt give you warning since you'll probably go back and edit the comment and erase the evidence.

#17 Posted by WWQ7 (466 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666: oh so now youre denying you said that feats dont count unless you win the fight? do you really want me to go back to the thread and copy paste it here and embarrass you? Probably shouldnt give you warning since you'll probably go back and edit the comment and erase the evidence.

LOL He can't erase anything because I quoted all his posts when I replied to him.

#18 Posted by dondave (26716 posts) - - Show Bio

Juggernaut ftw

Online
#19 Edited by New_World_Order (11159 posts) - - Show Bio

Big Barda is overrated..Juggernaut is a lot stronger.

#20 Posted by Inconvenient_Truth (2362 posts) - - Show Bio

@thundergodswrath: oh, yea i know, fighting WW, supergirl, and superboy among others doesnt impress some people

#21 Edited by WWQ7 (466 posts) - - Show Bio

@inconvenient_truth: I don't think she's ever fought Superboy mate. She's fought Wonder Woman, KO'd Supergirl with a blast from her Mega-Rod, but nothing with Superboy. She took out Knockout who has been able to hurt Superboy, though and Barda is still faster and a better fighter than Juggs. If they ever fought she could just BFR him with her Mega-Rod like she did to Lobo.

#22 Posted by czarny_samael666 (16629 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666: oh so now youre denying you said that feats dont count unless you win the fight? do you really want me to go back to the thread and copy paste it here and embarrass you? Probably shouldnt give you warning since you'll probably go back and edit the comment and erase the evidence.

1.You don't understand a difference between fight and strength contest. Strength contest is testing only your strength, that is why they are so rare. In fight, You're using Your speed, relfex, powers, weapons, strength, durability, etc.

2.I said that fights doesn't count as a feats, until they are won. Strength constest - as I've said - are different. And I am not denying not only that lost fights doesn't prove anything, I am even saying that stalemate in a fight doesn't have to be prove of anything. I also said that they aren't a prove per se, but there can be signs of good feats. Like Hogun and Fandral summoning asteroid/planetoid against Surtur.

Yet, Big Barda didn't do anything like that there.

So, actually You embarassed Yourself, becuase of Your lack if understanding what "fight" and what "strength contest" is.

Just in case of further "debate", don't try to threat people of embarassing them, if You don't understand something. Asking is better, since You it don't give a hint that You want to start a flamewar. And flamewars are banned on CV...

@wwq7 said:

@inconvenient_truth said:

@czarny_samael666: oh so now youre denying you said that feats dont count unless you win the fight? do you really want me to go back to the thread and copy paste it here and embarrass you? Probably shouldnt give you warning since you'll probably go back and edit the comment and erase the evidence.

LOL He can't erase anything because I quoted all his posts when I replied to him.

Lol at this and You. You tought that You had something and... *poof* it seems that You didn't understand the point. Again.

Barda's strength doesn't come from her weapon, its her super strength that dishes out the damage.Her weapon is small which limits her strength. If she can do all those feats with that tiny weapon, she could do more damage with her fists.

...

#23 Posted by Inconvenient_Truth (2362 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666: That last comment to me doesnt make sense. I think its your tough time with English. I'm not trying to be rude, but I dont think English is your first language.

#24 Edited by New_World_Order (11159 posts) - - Show Bio
#25 Edited by TifaLockhart (13830 posts) - - Show Bio

Neither are really known for top tier strength.

#26 Posted by WWQ7 (466 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_last_son_of_czarnia: Do you know of any strength feats for Juggernaut that are impressive? Barda doesn't really need to be top tier strength: she's fast, skilled, strong enough to fight Wonder Woman and has a weapon that can KO Superman and teleport Lobo a zillion light years away.

#27 Edited by deathmedal (80 posts) - - Show Bio

Juggs. In that scan he matches the strongest version of the hulk. All hulk could do is side step him (smart).

#28 Posted by TifaLockhart (13830 posts) - - Show Bio

Juggernaut doesn't lift often. And while strong, his real selling point is his invulnerability.

#29 Posted by pooty (10316 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666: @inconvenient_truth: @wwq7:

In this case, I think I understand what Czarny is saying and agree. WWH vs Juggs was a strength struggle not a fight. No fist were thrown. No kicks. No H2H skill. just force against force. Since Hulk did not over power Juggs, that is still a feat for Juggs.

Nevertheless, remember when Thanos fought Odin? Even though Thanos lost. I think that is still a feat for Thanos

#30 Edited by czarny_samael666 (16629 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666: That last comment to me doesnt make sense. I think its your tough time with English. I'm not trying to be rude, but I dont think English is your first language.

No it isn't.Which part was written in wrong way? If You will answer quickly (it is almost a midnight in my country), I will try to be more clear in my words.

@wwq7 said:

@the_last_son_of_czarnia: Do you know of any strength feats for Juggernaut that are impressive? Barda doesn't really need to be top tier strength: she's fast, skilled, strong enough to fight Wonder Woman and has a weapon that can KO Superman and teleport Lobo a zillion light years away.

What does that have with this thread?

#31 Edited by TifaLockhart (13830 posts) - - Show Bio

But juggernaut also has an unstoppability enchantment.

#32 Posted by WWQ7 (466 posts) - - Show Bio

@inconvenient_truth said:

@czarny_samael666: That last comment to me doesnt make sense. I think its your tough time with English. I'm not trying to be rude, but I dont think English is your first language.

No it isn't.Which part was written in wrong way? If You will answer quickly (it is almost a midnight in my country), I will try to be more clear in my words.

@wwq7 said:

@the_last_son_of_czarnia: Do you know of any strength feats for Juggernaut that are impressive? Barda doesn't really need to be top tier strength: she's fast, skilled, strong enough to fight Wonder Woman and has a weapon that can KO Superman and teleport Lobo a zillion light years away.

What does that have with this thread?

Just saying that Juggernaut only has strength and durability, while Barda has several other abilities as well as strength and durability and it seems Juggernaut isn't that strong.

#33 Posted by czarny_samael666 (16629 posts) - - Show Bio

@pooty said:

@czarny_samael666: @inconvenient_truth: @wwq7:

In this case, I think I understand what Czarny is saying and agree. WWH vs Juggs was a strength struggle not a fight. No fist were thrown. No kicks. No H2H skill. just force against force. Since Hulk did not over power Juggs, that is still a feat for Juggs.

Nevertheless, remember when Thanos fought Odin? Even though Thanos lost. I think that is still a feat for Thanos

And I am often defending some parts of that fight for Thanos, but I understand that people can disagree with me about it. It is very hard to prove that lost fight gives Your character some feats.

#34 Posted by Inconvenient_Truth (2362 posts) - - Show Bio

@pooty: u got it all wrong, I"M the one saying that of course its a feat, czarny is the one saying that its NOT a feat unless you win

#35 Posted by Inconvenient_Truth (2362 posts) - - Show Bio
#36 Edited by czarny_samael666 (16629 posts) - - Show Bio

@inconvenient_truth said:

@pooty: u got it all wrong, I"M the one saying that of course its a feat, czarny is the one saying that its NOT a feat unless you win

No. I am saying that it doesn't count if You lose a fight. To be even more clear: lost fight doesn't prove that You're in the same level with Your enemy.

You were saying that BB's fight with WW proves that BB is in the same level with WW. I've said that lost fight can't be a prove of that, becuase we know many examples of similar situations:

Thing fought with Thor and lost, but it doesn't prove that Thing is in the same level with Thor.

Colossus fought with Gladiator, but it doesn't prove that Piotr is in the same level with Kallark.

Enchantress Three leader fought with Odin, but it doesn't prove that they are in the same level of power.

That was the point from the beginning of ealier debate. BB lost her fight with WW, so it can't be a prove that they are in the same level.

MORE: my fauvorite character - Thanos - fought with Odin, but I wouldn't say that they are in the same level.

EDIT: And strength contest is not a fight. Strength contest tests only strength. Not other stats or powers. That is the point.

#37 Posted by czarny_samael666 (16629 posts) - - Show Bio
#38 Edited by pooty (10316 posts) - - Show Bio

@pooty: u got it all wrong, I"M the one saying that of course its a feat, czarny is the one saying that its NOT a feat unless you win

No, i understand completely who is saying what. This thread is about strength and only strength. In this case Juggs did NOT lose a strength contest to Hulk. so that is a valid feat for Juggs. Czarny previous comments don't apply to this thread because this thread is about strength not combat. and Juggs did NOT lose this strength contest.

#39 Posted by Inconvenient_Truth (2362 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666: You misunderstood again you just said "No. I am saying that it doesn't count if You lose a fight. To be even more clear: lost fight doesn't prove that You're in the same level with Your enemy." and I agree. WHAT I SAID was that IIIIIIIIIIIIII AM the one saying that feats are feats and it doesnt matter if you win or lose. Pooty is agreeing with ME.

#40 Edited by Inconvenient_Truth (2362 posts) - - Show Bio

@pooty: yea I KNOW. IVE BEEN AGREEING WITH THAT STATEMENT. What czarny says is that if you lose a battle(in this case a strength battle) those feats DONT count. I'm saying what YOU are saying which is that OF COURSE they matter.

#41 Posted by czarny_samael666 (16629 posts) - - Show Bio


@czarny_samael666: You misunderstood again you just said "No. I am saying that it doesn't count if You lose a fight. To be even more clear: lost fight doesn't prove that You're in the same level with Your enemy." and I agree. WHAT I SAID was that IIIIIIIIIIIIII AM the one saying that feats are feats and it doesnt matter if you win or lose. Pooty is agreeing with ME.

I don't think that @pooty feels that he is a part of our argue... When You lose a fight - it is not a feat. Parts of that fight can be feats. Hyperion matched Gladiator full strength (confirmed by narrator that both were using planet level strength) and reflex (both used nanosecond reaction), so he made some feats in that fight.

But losing a fight isn't a feat.

Feats are feats. But You're not talking about feats, but about lost fights. I never said that feat isn't a feat. BTW it is tautology...

#42 Edited by TifaLockhart (13830 posts) - - Show Bio

It isn't like Wonder Woman won due to far superior strength or anything. She won due to flight.

#43 Posted by Inconvenient_Truth (2362 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666: dude thats what IVE BEEEEEEEN saying. Ive argued that that during her fight with WW, barda put up a great fight against WW who is incredibly strong, fast, agile, and a skilled warrior. YOU said that those feats dont count cause she lost the fight. YOUVE acknowledged that thats what you said.

#44 Edited by Inconvenient_Truth (2362 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_last_son_of_czarnia: exxactly, it was a very good fight that barda might have won but Czarny says that fight doesnt count as feats for Barda because she lost the fight and I'm thinking how the hell could that NOT count.

#45 Posted by pooty (10316 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666:

@pooty: yea I KNOW. IVE BEEN AGREEING WITH THAT STATEMENT. What czarny says is that if you lose a battle(in this case a strength battle) those feats DONT count. I'm saying what YOU are saying which is that OF COURSE they matter.

That is not what Czarny is saying. Juggs did NOT lose a strength battle. Did Hulk over power him? Did hulk prove stronger then Juggs? No. Then he did not lose a strength battle. Therefore Czarny previous comments do not apply here. maybe he didn't clarify that on the other thread. but he has made it very clear what he meant.

#46 Edited by WWQ7 (466 posts) - - Show Bio

It isn't like Wonder Woman won due to far superior strength or anything. She won due to flight.

Exactly mate. Flight is the only reason why Diana won.

#47 Posted by Inconvenient_Truth (2362 posts) - - Show Bio

@pooty: they had a FIGHT and he LOST. He got BFR'd. Czarny says that if you lose a fight that you cant claim ANY feats from that fight. Thats what Ive been saying for the last like 5 posts. I on the other hand have said that of course they count. <-- ive said that exact phrase now 3 times. I'm agreeeing with you!

#48 Posted by czarny_samael666 (16629 posts) - - Show Bio

It isn't like Wonder Woman won due to far superior strength or anything. She won due to flight.

I never said that this fight proves WW's superiority. I simply don't think that it proved anything about strength.

@czarny_samael666: dude thats what IVE BEEEEEEEN saying. Ive argued that that during her fight with WW, barda put up a great fight against WW who is incredibly strong, fast, agile, and a skilled warrior. YOU said that those feats dont count cause she lost the fight. YOUVE acknowledged that thats what you said.

No, I've said that we can't measure WW speed there, because speedsters don't use their speed all the time.

I've said that it doesn't prove her strength, becuase WW wasn' KOd and hurting isn't a feat, because people from much lower level can hurt much more powerfull ones. I even gived You an example of Thor hurting Odin and Surfer hurting Galactus.

What this fight proves then? It proves that Barda has great control over weapons and that she can take a hits from not-bloodlusted Wonder Woman. But in thread You've made, Barda doesn't have weapons. With Mega Rod she would one-shot each of her enemies there. So her skills with using weapons aren't usefull there. Taking hit from "normal" WW is good, but it doesn't mean that it gives her auto victory with any of them, since they also took hits from people as strong as WW or stronger (Hulk, Thor, Gladiator), so I don't think that it changes the outcome.

#49 Posted by czarny_samael666 (16629 posts) - - Show Bio

@pooty: they had a FIGHT and he LOST. He got BFR'd. Czarny says that if you lose a fight that you cant claim ANY feats from that fight. Thats what Ive been saying for the last like 5 posts. I on the other hand have said that of course they count. <-- ive said that exact phrase now 3 times. I'm agreeeing with you!

You're messing with my words. I've said that lost fight isn't a prove of anything, but it doesn't mean that everything You have done in a fight doesn't count.

It seems like the same thing, but these aren't the same things. Thing losing with Thor isn't a prove that Thing is in Thor's level. If Hyperion would just lose with Gladiator, it wouldn't prove that Hyperion is in Gladiator's level. BUT! Hyperion matched Gladiator in a fight in which narrator said what kind of power level they've used. And power level of strength, HV and reflex was described in good enough way, that we can use it as a feat for Hyperion.

Do You see the difference?

#50 Posted by Inconvenient_Truth (2362 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666: well we're saying that taking hits from and giving a great fight to WW is a really good feat. You dont. Since youre saying that it doesnt prove anything because we dont know how much strength WW put into her Punches and you think that she wasnt punching at full strength then IT IS UP TO YOU to prove YOUR statements. The burden of proof lies with YOU since you are the one making the challenging statement. YOU have to PROVE to us that she WASNT hitting BB at full strength.