Street level battle!

Spiderman vs Deathstroke vs Omega red vs Iron Fist

All are current versions.

Start 20 meters apart each.

Win by any means

R1 morals on, in character (no death spores

R2 morals off (no death spores)

R3 morals off (no stipulations)

1. Going with Peter since red doesn't have deathspores he's easy pickings for iron fist. I also believe deathstroke and Peter can take him under these conditions, but I don't think they need to.
2. Same as above.
3. Omega red. Spores kill them all unless Danny blitzes him quickly (he might last a bit longer due to his chi healing). But still I lean towards omega red.

@jashro44: thx for the opinion man I usually see you turn down people who tag u in there threads so I'm honored lol

Agree with Jash

No problem.

@thetruebarryallen @kidman560 @wolverine08 @cdiddyman911

@cable_extreme @deadpoolvironfist @super_soldierxii. For Fist

@dondave @shawnbaby @juiceboks @nickzambuto @jayc1324

@rogueshadow @comicstooge @patrat18

@granitesoldier @homicidalmaniac @nighthunder @14nc3

@risingbean @strider92 @wyldsong @monsterstomp

@fallschirmjager @pierpat @tomlikesfries @jonez120 @tradog

For peter

@dondave @nico4ever @monsterstomp @fetts @jmarshmallow

@funsiized @cable_extreme

@granitesoldier @supernategames @patrat18 @deathstroke19

@super_soldierxii @jayc1324 @oni_bane @jokerpoker

For Slade

Didn't see anyone for omega red in the callous so ya...

I hate coming in after you, Jash. You pretty much hit all the points. Good stuff.

Have to agree with @jashro44. R1: Without spores, I'd probably put Omega Red last and I think any of the other 3 could beat him. His tendrils will likely be useful against the healing factors because of the whole carbonadium thing, but he goes down. I pick Spidey against the others. R2: Isn't much different from round 1. R3: Goes to Omega Red because of the spores.

Agree with Storm

spiderman > omega red > iron fist > deathstroke

I care nothing for this battle. But I will go with DS. He just got a huge upgrade, He is young and has both eyes. Even though he still fight with one eye close lol

R1 morals on, in character (no death spores

Spidey.

R2 morals off (no death spores)

Hrrrmmmmm. Maybe Iron Fist?

R3 morals off (no stipulations)

Omega Red.

Red. Spider-Man. Slade. Danny.

1) Morals on, Arkady wins. He has the least morals of them all and he tanked blows from Colossus, so he wins

2) Morals off, Arkady again. Same as above. The only thing that affects this is if Pete incaps him via web. I GUESS he can be hogtied and BFR'd or pummeled to death with Spider-Man's hardest punches for days on end...but barring that...Arkady wins.

3) Arkady. Death Spores for the immediate win.

@jashro44: agreed.

@dre_savage: spiderman is more durable

Spider-Man is not beating Arkady.

That's like Venom beating Hulk.

Sure, Pete/Venom could use their speed advantage, web Arkady/Hulk and fling their bodies into the sea and win via BFR, but that's about it.

Without PIS, spiders lose.

Carbonadium coils will still be dangerous in all rounds. Red's soaked Colossus level blows before and eats Wolverine's claws for breakfast (i.e. the dude is extremely durable and heals super fast).

I can see Iron Fist dropping him in round two, but round one is up for serious debate.

Rnd 1. Iron Fist or Omega Red (debatable ... I don't see a morals on Parker beating either / or for a clear majority);

Rnd 2. Spidey or Iron Fist (debatable);

Rnd 3. Omega Red in a stomp.

Do any of u guyz think that Spider-mans/ DS healing could over come the Spores? Or are they to much?

I don't know to my knowledge wolverine has been able to avoid the coils. I think wolverine is even with Slade in terms of speed and comparable to the others however I think Slade, iron fist, and spider-man are better acrobats than Logan which will help them work around the coils easier than wolverine. And they also have range attacks (iron fists might not be able to hurt him but he is probably the one who doesn't need range attacks). It would probably take a few shots for Slade granted to drop red with his staff. Peter could always use webbing to drag omega red in close, blind him, or ragdoll him with webbing (I know omega red is suppose to be a 10 tonner but I don't think he has to many strength feats). Not to mention he could incapacitate him in rounds one and two. Normally this would stop omega red because the death spores but this time it can.

Omegas red damage soak will be a problem. I think Peter can bypass it sooner or later. As for spider-man vs iron fist I still think Peter can take him. In there last fight Danny had a few advantages he wouldn't normally have (knowing the location, having traps set in the location), he exploited there friendship as well and Peter still had the advantage. Granted both characters have improved since than but than we have things like Danny saying spider-man is the one superhero (presumingly talking just the street levellers) he couldn't beat since he can't stay ahead of spider-sense (and that was post book of iron fist talking about pre way of the spider spider-man), and we also have showings like shadowland as well.

Omega red is not even remotely comparable to hulk....Lets not get crazy. Yes he can tank hits from colossus but its not like spider-man has never been hit by a class 100. Recently in axis apocalypse tossed him through what looks like a steel wall, and we see that Peter was fighting colossus a few pages later:

Omega red is tough but I don't see why Peter can't knock him out eventually with a blitz.... Just because he tanks hits from a hundred tonners doesn't mean you need to be an 100 tonner to knock him out. Or web him up in rounds one or two.

Deathstorke has actually stated that he is off his game as a young man. Theres no indication he is stronger or faster so its not an upgrade really.

New 52 deathstroke needs more time IMO. He has a lot of potential now that he stomped bronze tiger while off his game.....

iron fist the first two rounds,,, the third round depends on if danny could knock red out in time... altho i don't know if he couldn't heal himself after knocking him out so he could even win round three...

R1 Spiderman

R2 Iron Fist

R3 Omega Red

@jashro44:

As for spider-man vs iron fist I still think Peter can take him. In there last fight Danny had a few advantages he wouldn't normally have (knowing the location, having traps set in the location), he exploited there friendship as well and Peter still had the advantage. Granted both characters have improved since than but than we have things like Danny saying spider-man is the one superhero (presumingly talking just the street levellers) he couldn't beat since he can't stay ahead of spider-sense (and that was post book of iron fist talking about pre way of the spider spider-man), and we also have showings like shadowland as well.

Rand didn't outright say he "couldn't beat" him IIRC. He just stated something to the effect that Parker's precog would cause him pause (paraphrasing as I don't have the scan handy). Though questioning the outcome, he wasn't flat out admitting he'd lose.

If you're talking about their fight in Spider-Man #41, pretty sure Rand had the upper hand more so than Parker. Though I'm again working off memory here. Scans?

@jashro44:

We''ll have to agree to disagree here man. Arkady is ruthless and can use life drain on Pete. A no morals battle would be more interesting, but I think morals on, Spider-Man loses.

Mid tier battle would be a more appropriate title for this thread.

Spider-Man

Iron Fist

Omega Red

@super_soldierxii:

Rand didn't outright say he "couldn't beat" him IIRC. He just stated something to the effect that Parker's precog would cause him pause (paraphrasing as I don't have the scan handy). Though questioning the outcome, he wasn't flat out admitting he'd lose.

Its true he never said he couldn't beat him. However powerman asked him if there were any heroes he couldn't beat and Rand told him spider-man was the one he couldn't beat (all though he held his own against him). He did give powerman tips to tag spider-man but those tips incorporated powermans chi reading ability which allowed power man to stay a step ahead of himself and therefore a step ahead of spider-sense (I don't really get it either). So the tips aren't exactly something Danny can use.

If you're talking about their fight in Spider-Man #41, pretty sure Rand had the upper hand more so than Parker. Though I'm again working off memory here. Scans?

Forgot the exact context of the fight, but you stating Peter "still had the advantage" doesn't ring true based on what I remember of the showing.

Thats the showing. Here are the scans. Peter was able to dodge more hits, and land the same number of hits (assuming you count Danny throwing Peter as a hit all though thats something Peter was counting), and Danny needed to do things like lure Peter into a false sense of security, and use traps. Peter never did win the fight but he seemed to be in control of the fight IMO (and it didn't seem like Rand was really able to do anything about Peters last few punches until Peter let up because the sign was falling).

Regardless, I think Rand is a bad fight for morals on Parker personally, as webbing won't hold him, Rand's combat reflexes are on par (yeah, I said it) and his skill can counter spider-sense/avoidance.Rand's durability is questionable and is definitely his Achilles heel, as he remains a glass cannon. But really, his damage output balances the fact, meaning both Parker and Rand have the potential to end this tussle in one shot. Problem is, morals on Parker holds back and pulls his punches quite a bit (highlighted in the Spider-Man #41 showing in question). I think that will prove his undoing. Consequently, that's why I give him far more props in a morals off fight. Don't think Rand can hold out against a Parker not pulling his shots.

All though its true that Peter will hold back in a moral on situation so will iron fist. They are friends. So I think that kind of evens out (Its hard to say who would hold back more against friends IMO, obviously Danny does have overall more looser morals granted). Danny does have impressive reflexes granted but I think Peters feats are slightly better. As for spider-sense, the reason Danny stated he wished he had powermans chi reading was because he doesn't have something to stay ahead of spider-sense.

While I agree Logan is inferior to Rand (and certainly to Parker) in avoidance, Wolverine really didn't do so great in dodging the coils all the same, so I don't think it's an overwhelmingly convincing yard stick to use their superior avoidance as proof they'd fare better than Logan did.

I do recall Logan commenting on omegas red speed before, but I recall being shown this scan of wolverine closing the gap on red:

I know Omega red does have the speed to keep up with Logan but from the bit I have read of him his tentacles have never been to accurate. And in Peters case he has faced a similar enemy in dock ock who I feel has shown better reflexes. I don't know how long Danny can avoid him but he probably wont have to avoid him for long as his striking power could allow him to one shot red. I think Rands damage output will be way more effective than Logans. Slade will have the biggest issue in a melee with Omega red but even he has a slightly longer reach than Logan with his sword so that could make a difference.

They do have range, and that should work to their advantage I suppose, but I feel like we're looking at this like it's Parker, Rand and Slade against Omega Red in this scenario. There are a lot of factors being overlooked, and many ways we can approach a fight between these four.

True. Deathstorke and Peter do have a lot of experience fighting teams. I remember iron fist fighting the thunderbolts, and I know red has fought X-men. So I think everyone has the ability to kind of divide there focus. Slade probably has the most experience in multi-tasking overall, I think Peter is probably second to Slade in that, and than omega red and iron fist probably has the least experience with multi-tasking.

All though even so I think for the most part Slade would be smart enough to distance himself from the others, and Omega red would probably have a primary target while someone goes after deathstroke. Unless Danny and Peter decide to team up before fighting (all though the OP probably doesn't want people to team up).

He needs to tag spider-man to use his life drain. I don't think he would. Peter has experience with a similar enemy, and I don't think reds tentacles have the accuracy or speed to tag Peter for a majority.

@jashro44:

Red is an experienced fighter...like a trained fighter. Ock wasn't I don't think. Morals off, maybe Pete goes all Flash on him and blitz's him, but morals on, I don't see him knocking Arkady out.

Now, there's the go to incap with Pete. He can POTENTIALLY tie up Arkady and with his strength, toss him a few hundred feet for a BFR, but I never really include that because its such a lame move. (He could do that to Juggernaut, Namor...pretty much anyone that he's faster then with that cheesy strategy. And it would only get worse with the symbiotes because theyre that much stronger than Pete.

But in like a cage match, Arkady is ruthless, Pete isn't. And he doesn't know about the life drain without prep. Not to mention, Ock may get knocked out by a Peter haymaker, Red won't. A morals off Pete could hit him 100x and I guess knock him out, but with morals, I just don't see Pete winning.

Ock being a trained fighter isn't relevant because we are comparing their showings with there tentacles. And Ottos reflex feats are way better than Reds. Otto is able to effortlessly block demo goblins attacks, and he can counter electros electric blasts while smoking his cigarette. Red can't do that.

I don't see why he can't just web him up like he did scorpion (someone stronger than Peter)

Omega red is more ruthless but its not like Peter hasn't faced a more ruthless person and overcome them. I don't think it will take 100 of Peters best hits to KO red....With morals on its just a matter of gauging reds durability. I don't see why he can't wear red down eventually.

@jashro44:

Yeah ... t'was what I remembered pretty much. He didn't admit Parker could beat him at all actually. He just stated his abilities were surprising, and that he could give him a good fight due to what appeared to be low level TP.

Their fight in Spider-Man #41 was pretty much as remembered also. That one caption, where he showed concern for Parker's safety, clearly showed Rand was pulling his punches as well. There was really no clear winner there at all. Despite what you hold were Rand's advantages.

Though I appreciate you posting them herein, you were clearly overemphasizing both showings in your original post Jash.

Is Spider-Man vs Iron Fist debatable? Yeah, yeah it is. Do any of their showings clearly decide who would win? Not at all. I, personally, think Iron Fist in his modern iteration would eek out Parker based on abilities and power set. You disagree probably based on preference more than anything else based on how you overstated the two showings earlier in this thread. But your position is understandable all the same.

Jash got everything

Thats not all he stated. Power man asked him which super heroes he wasn't able to beat and iron fist responded with:

"Well...Huh. Good question. Okay I'm finally seeing some humility here. I held my own against him but spider-man is more dangerous than he looks." Iron fist did state he couldn't beat spider-man in the past. He than said he wished he had powermans chi reading ability.

I know rand was pulling his punches, but I don't see why that matters. He still has his morals in round one anyways.

Going over the fight scan by scan:

1. Spider-man dodges a kick from iron fist. Danny turns off the lights to give himself an advantage (he can fight blind) but Peter dodges 2 strikes.
2. Spider-man punches Danny, and Danny rolls with the hit and onto a couch.
3. They go up on the roof tops, and start talking, Danny puts his hand on Peters shoulder. Peter lets Danny put his hand on his shoulder thinking Danny is just talking and is going to explain himself...
4. Rand stuns Peter with a nerve pinch while they are talking and Peter lowered his guard.
5. Peter swings back up to the top of the rooftop, Rand activates a trap, Peter dodges the trap
6. Danny punches Peter while in mid air, Peter comes back to the fight.
7. Peter leaps at Rand, Rand tosses him just as Peter was expecting him to do, Peter webs Rand
8. Peter uses his webbing to rag doll Rand against a sign, Peter than lands 2 more strikes, and stops him self from continuing his attack when the sign is falling
9. Peter and Danny stop the sign.

Sp explain how Peter didn't have the upper hand? Peter dodged a total of 3 strikes, iron fist never dodged a single one of Peters strikes. Danny was using the fact that he knew the location to his advantage (rolling onto the couch, activating traps). While in the middle of talking Rand pressure points Peter after Peter lowered his guard. Literally of Rands strikes were either circumstantial. And even counting his toss as a strike at best they landed the same number of strikes. Difference being is Peter actually avoided some of iron fists strikes and as I said literally every single of Dannys strikes were circumstantial (traps, Peter not having his guard up which shouldn't be an issue here, and tossing Peter which did nothing to Peter and is something spider-man wanted iron fist to do).

Additionally prior to the sign falling iron fist was on his butt from Peter rag dolling him, and Peter landed 2 strikes while Danny was on the ground and only let up when the sign was falling. That is an advantage to spider-man because if the sign hadn't kept falling there wouldn't be much Rand can do to stop Peter and iron fist wasn't in a position to defend himself.

Nope. Not even close. Spider-man had a very clear upper hand. Did he win? No. Doesn't mean he wasn't in the dominant position.

@jashro44:

"Well...Huh. Good question. Okay I'm finally seeing some humility here. I held my own against him but spider-man is more dangerous than he looks." Iron fist did state he couldn't beat spider-man in the past. He than said he wished he had powermans chi reading ability.

Yeah no ... no where did he state he couldn't beat Spider-Man. Sorry. I know what the context shows. Question is, do you?

Stating Parker is "more dangerous than he looks" does not equate "he can beat me". What it does clearly state is "I held my own against him".

Even so, Wolverine states he's the best there is all the time. Hyperbole is there for a reason.

I know rand was pulling his punches, but I don't see why that matters. He still has his morals in round one anyways.

It matters because you were painting the whole scenario out as though Iron Fist had all advantages and Spider-Man one upped him all the same. That simply didn't happen. It matters because he tagged Parker good ... which would have spelled "lights out" were he not "holding back". Conversely, Iron Fist also showed he can absorb and roll with Parker's punches, absorbing the lion's share of the impact said punches hold.

1. Spider-man dodges a kick from iron fist. Danny turns off the lights to give himself an advantage (he can fight blind) but Peter dodges 2 strikes.

Hate to burst your bubble, but Spider-Man can effectively "fight blind" too. Precog actually trumps any advantage lights out might have given Danny so him dodging makes sense all the same. There was no advantage to be had there I'm afraid.

2. Spider-man punches Danny, and Danny rolls with the hit and onto a couch.

Yeah. Good showing for Danny. Sets a precedence that he can roll with Parker's blows ... offsetting Peter's principle advantage with superior skill. Great showing for Danny. See nothing backing Parker in that encounter thus far Jash ...

They go up on the roof tops, and start talking, Danny puts his hand on Peters shoulder. Peter lets Danny put his hand on his shoulder thinking Danny is just talking and is going to explain himself...

Rand stuns Peter with a nerve pinch while they are talking and Peter lowered his guard.

Peter swings back up to the top of the rooftop, Rand activates a trap, Peter dodges the trap

Danny punches Peter while in mid air, Peter comes back to the fight.

Unnecessary play by play there Jash. The pics highlight it much better and the dialogue does both of them justice throughout. No clear advantage in any of that (save the caption highlighting how Danny was holding back and showing concern).

Peter leaps at Rand, Rand tosses him just as Peter was expecting him to do, Peter webs Rand

Peter uses his webbing to rag doll Rand against a sign, Peter than lands 2 more strikes, and stops him self from continuing his attack when the sign is falling

Peter and Danny stop the sign.

Not exactly. Parker webs Rand, tosses him against said sign sure. Rand then simply tries to reason with Parker, starts to explain himself, Parker then takes his two cheap shots on Rand. That's a little more precise and little closer to how the showings look when you consider dialogue just a tad Jash. Danny, instead of taking advantage of Parker's spider-sense going off warning him of the sign falling and potentially harming innocents below, uses a precise pressure point attack to redirect the signs trajectory. Peter then stops it from squishing them both. That's more akin to what happened.

Sp explain how Peter didn't have the upper hand?

I pretty much did. Scroll up. Better yet, read the showing unbiased. I know it's hard.

Peter dodged a total of 3 strikes

All at the beginning of the tussle, where Rand erroneously underestimated Parker, believing turning out the lights would grant the upper hand. He obviously was not yet aware of Parker's spider-sense.

iron fist never dodged a single one of Peters strikes

Not that it mattered. As, through skill, he proved able to absorb the blows, roll with them, which sets a dangerous precedence should they fight again. Rand also didn't show any of the diversity we now all know he possesses. Which makes a more modern iteration of a fight between these two fly more in his favor.

All context in, no one had an upper hand in that tussle really.

@super_soldierxii:

Yeah no ... no where did he state he couldn't beat Spider-Man. Sorry. I know what the context shows. Question is, do you?

Stating Parker is "more dangerous than he looks" does not equate "he can beat me". What it does clearly state is "I held my own against him".

Even so, Wolverine states he's the best there is all the time. Hyperbole is there for a reason.

Powerman asked Danny specifically who he wasn't able to beat. Danny than mentioned spider-man.

It matters because you were painting the whole scenario out as though Iron Fist had all advantages and Spider-Man one upped him all the same. That simply didn't happen. It matters because he tagged Parker good ... which would have spelled "lights out" were he not "holding back". Conversely, Iron Fist also showed he can absorb and roll with Parker's punches, absorbing the lion's share of the impact said punches hold.

Danny tagged Peter when he was in mid air from avoiding the trap Danny activated. I see no evidence he would have touched Peter otherwise.

Hate to burst your bubble, but Spider-Man can effectively "fight blind" too. Precog actually trumps any advantage lights out might have given Danny so him dodging makes sense all the same. There was no advantage to be had there I'm afraid.

Peter himself said Rand had the advantage because it was his home field.

Yeah. Good showing for Danny. Sets a precedence that he can roll with Parker's blows ... offsetting Peter's principle advantage with superior skill. Great showing for Danny. See nothing backing Parker in that encounter thus far Jash ...

Yes Danny rolling with the hits is impressive. I'm not denying anything on panel. I never said "SPIDER-MAN CURBSTOMPED DANNY THE WHOLE FIGHT IN AN EMBARRASSING FASHION!" I said spider-man had an advantage in an environment which favored Danny....And he did. I have actually used this fight to debunk the notion iron fist is a glass cannon.

Unnecessary play by play there Jash. The pics highlight it much better and the dialogue does both of them justice throughout. No clear advantage in any of that

I thought so to.

(save the caption highlighting how Danny was holding back and showing concern).

Not an advantage because thats iron fists character. He holds back. He doesn't kill his allies. Morals on he will do the same, and Dann't isn't tanking a morals off spider-mans hits.

Not exactly. Parker webs Rand, tosses him against said sign sure. Rand then simply tries to reason with Parker, starts to explain himself, Parker then takes his two cheap shots on Rand. That's a little more precise and little closer to how the showings look when you consider dialogue just a tad Jash. Danny, instead of taking advantage of Parker's spider-sense going off warning him of the sign falling and potentially harming innocents below, uses a precise pressure point attack to redirect the signs trajectory. Peter then stops it from squishing them both. That's more akin to what happened.

Danny didn't take advantage of the sign falling because it would have squashed innocents. I guess it is possible Danny was trying to explain things. Even with that in mind though Peter still had a clear upper hand. And I still don't think Rand could have defended himself from that position. Its not exactly easy to fight someone when your on your butt.....So the advantage still leans towards spider-man.

I pretty much did. Scroll up. Better yet, read the showing unbiased. I know it's hard.

Its sad you need to resort to personal attacks against my credibility.

All at the beginning of the tussle, where Rand erroneously underestimated Parker, believing turning out the lights would grant the upper hand. He obviously was not yet aware of Parker's spider-sense.

He still had the advantage in the dark by spider-mans own admission due to the home field. You can say the advantage wasn't big but its not like Danny was at a disadvantage in the dark.

Not that it mattered. As, through skill, he proved able to absorb the blows, roll with them, which sets a dangerous precedence should they fight again.

And Peter tanked an iron fist because Rand held back. Rand can take hits from a morals on spider-man possibly but not a morals off spider-man. And he also used the environment which he doesn't have to absorb the blows:

The couch softened his blows quite a bit and apparently absorbed most of the impact. In a street Danny is hitting concrete which hurts a lot more than cushions.

Rand also didn't show any of the diversity we now all know he possesses. Which makes a more modern iteration of a fight between these two fly more in his favor.

What power do you have in mind specifically which gives Danny an advantage.

All context in, no one had an upper hand in that tussle really.

Not really. You never did address why Rand needed to get spider-man to lower his guard to pressure point him, or use traps to get peter in mid air.

@jashro44 said:

@dre_savage said:

Spider-Man is not beating Arkady.

That's like Venom beating Hulk.

Sure, Pete/Venom could use their speed advantage, web Arkady/Hulk and fling their bodies into the sea and win via BFR, but that's about it.

Without PIS, spiders lose.

Omega red is not even remotely comparable to hulk....Lets not get crazy. Yes he can tank hits from colossus but its not like spider-man has never been hit by a class 100. Recently in axis apocalypse tossed him through what looks like a steel wall, and we see that Peter was fighting colossus a few pages later:

Omega red is tough but I don't see why Peter can't knock him out eventually with a blitz.... Just because he tanks hits from a hundred tonners doesn't mean you need to be an 100 tonner to knock him out. Or web him up in rounds one or two.

@oni_bane said:

I care nothing for this battle. But I will go with DS. He just got a huge upgrade, He is young and has both eyes. Even though he still fight with one eye close lol

Deathstorke has actually stated that he is off his game as a young man. Theres no indication he is stronger or faster so its not an upgrade really.

New 52 deathstroke needs more time IMO. He has a lot of potential now that he stomped bronze tiger while off his game.....

I have only read the first 3 issues. I'm not sure how many they have yet.

@oni_bane: There are only 3 issues.

Oh good. So I have read all of them.