Storm can resist if Xavier tries to do mess with her mind, trick her, use illusions, stuff like that. If he just straight up blasts her, it's a different story. There are plenty of characters that have resistances to psychic reading and manipulation, but a psychic blast doesn't come up against those resistances. I've seen Xavier say it about Mystique, Gambit and some others, and he's said that he could get to their mind if he wanted to, but it would damage them too much. Damaging them is something he can do and if that's all he wants to do, there's nothing to stop him. Don't get carried away with the idea that the electricity in storm's brain stops all psychic powers. Heck, someone even said that Emma has easily put Storm down before. When she goes down, the fight is over. I used to have a few more images like this, where Storm goes down to a simple psychic blast (there's another when she knocks storm out with a psi bolt before switching their bodies), but this is all I could find.
Emma does a psychic blast and Storm goes down and stays down long enough to be transported. Even if you look at that and say "but storm was fighting it" it only shows that her fighting it did absolutely no good. She wasn't able to attack in any way, she was only capable of fighting against the psychic attack, not her attacker's body out in the real world, and she lost the fight anyway. A straightforward psychic blast is enough. There's also that instance in Uncanny X-Men that shows the same exact thing. Xavier can drop Storm just as easily as Emma did. Am I "clouded by biasness" if I go by what was shown clearly on two separate occasions?
Storm can resist if Xavier tries to do mess with her mind, trick her, use illusions, stuff like that. If he just straight up blasts her, it's a different story. There are plenty of characters that have resistances to psychic reading and manipulation, but a psychic blast doesn't come up against those resistances. I've seen Xavier say it about Mystique, Gambit and some others, and he's said that he could get to their mind if he wanted to, but it would damage them too much. Damaging them is something he can do and if that's all he wants to do, there's nothing to stop him. Don't get carried away with the idea that the electricity in storm's brain stops all psychic powers. Heck, someone even said that Emma has easily put Storm down before. When she goes down, the fight is over. I used to have a few more images like this, where Storm goes down to a simple psychic blast (there's another when she knocks storm out with a psi bolt before switching their bodies), but this is all I could find.
Emma does a psychic blast and Storm goes down and stays down long enough to be transported. Even if you look at that and say "but storm was fighting it" it only shows that her fighting it did absolutely no good. She wasn't able to attack in any way, she was only capable of fighting against the psychic attack, not her attacker's body out in the real world, and she lost the fight anyway. A straightforward psychic blast is enough. There's also that instance in Uncanny X-Men that shows the same exact thing. Xavier can drop Storm just as easily as Emma did. Am I "clouded by biasness" if I go by what was shown clearly on two separate occasions?
BOOM. Not to mention that Emma views Charles Xavier as the superior telepath.
Storm can resist if Xavier tries to do mess with her mind, trick her, use illusions, stuff like that. If he just straight up blasts her, it's a different story.
About that....
I've seen Xavier say it about Mystique, Gambit and some others, and he's said that he could get to their mind if he wanted to, but it would damage them too much.
None of these characters have the willpower or type of defense Storm has.
Damaging them is something he can do and if that's all he wants to do, there's nothing to stop him. Don't get carried away with the idea that the electricity in storm's brain stops all psychic powers.
So we just ignore all the instances before? I mean she's fought back the Shadow King when she was a child and managed to attack him before escaping.
Heck, someone even said that Emma has easily put Storm down before
You are looking at a scan of young Storm encountering her first psychic attack. Which took her by complete surprise. This is not how current Storm reacts to being attacked. And if we jump a little down the line this is what a psychic assault from Emma does to Storm.
there's another when she knocks storm out with a psi bolt before switching their bodies), but this is all I could find.
I read the issue and all I could find was Emma surprising Storm. No battle of any kind was shown. Albeit I did speed read but I do not think I missed anything.
She wasn't able to attack in any way, she was only capable of fighting against the psychic attack, not her attacker's body out in the real world, and she lost the fight anyway.
And yet current Storm is capable of doing just that.
There's also that instance in Uncanny X-Men that shows the same exact thing.
Now the reason why I think Storm has more of a chance than most are giving her is simply because she has shown multiple times that she can withstand extremely powerful assaults from high ranking telepaths. The scans being used against Storm show a Storm that wasn't nearly as "will strong" as she is now. If a telepath attacks her mind she doesn't get KO. No she does the one thing that makes me think she has a chance. She strikes back with everything she can muster. Charles has absolutely no defense against any weather phenomenon Storm produces when she fights off attacks. Not to mention that even Xavier stated that when she activates her powers the backlash if painful. Any one of her attacks can disable him. Be it heavy winds, cold, or even flaring lighting. None of these has to be completely focused on him for it to cause him to loose focus or even by KO.
I ask anyone to produce a scan of Xavier in extreme weather conditions pushing his telepathy to the max and not loosing focus.
If Professor X was not held back by morals and needed to take Storm out as quickly as possible, by any means necessary, he could do so without much trouble. He's reprogrammed her mind before to teach her English and taught her most of her techniques to withstand a telepathic assault, meaning he knows her consciousness and thought patterns giving him a backdoor into her mind. A telepathic blast meant to kill her might not do so immediately due to her resistance, but she could be paralyzed, incapacitated or rendered comatose.
If Professor X was not held back by morals and needed to take Storm out as quickly as possible, by any means necessary, he could do so without much trouble. He's reprogrammed her mind before to teach her English and taught her most of her techniques to withstand a telepathic assault, meaning he knows her consciousness and thought patterns giving him a backdoor into her mind. A telepathic blast meant to kill her might not do so immediately due to her resistance, but she could be paralyzed, incapacitated or rendered comatose.
Hardly the same thing as an assault.
And since that was before her other defenses kicked in.
And Emma switched bodies with her. Knew everything there is to know about her at that time. Yet she still failed.
@Son Of Storm: All those separate responses are an unnecessary waste of time. You say that what I showed was a young storm, but her willpower and psychic resistance have been with her all her life. You even talk about how she resisted and attacked Shadow King as a child. If your argument is that Emma only succeeded because that was a young and weak-willed Storm, that would logically be even more true when she was a child, yet you yourself state how she could defend herself psychically. If you're claiming she fell prey to Emma because of her youth, then you're the one ignoring other instances, not me. Your point about Shadow King weakens your point about her youth and willpower. She's had her inner strength for a long time and yet she went down to a direct bolt.
Your scan is nice but it doesn't actually disprove what I'm saying. We don't know what Emma's "psychic assault" was. If it were something like psychic surgery, which Emma is skilled at and known for, where she tries to exert control over someone's brain/body instead of just shutting it down, it would make perfect sense for Storm to be able to hold it off and shock Emma. Since Emma is known for her trickery and manipulation, I imagine any big attack on Storm would involve that. Emma's wording also adds something as well. She talks about her telepathic skill and knowing Storm's mind. I don't think a simple telepathic blast takes skill or deep knowledge. Another note, in the image, Storm has just been fighting Emma for a little while already. Storm's mind is prepped for a back and forth battle since she's already having one. This fight would be a different situation. She has no prep in this fight with which to raise defenses, strengthen her will or anything of the sort. When the fight starts, Emma would be able to get the drop on her like she has multiple times in the past.
And as for that other instance in Uncanny that I was talking about, it comes in the same story as the scan you posted, so you can't say it was a young storm. I found a good break down of it on a respect thread. Lemme just copy and paste: "Note the second scan first. The last thing Storm in Emma's body remembers is facing the White Queen and then getting psi-bolted (See first scan for incident). Now remember how the [body switching device] doesn't render the users unconscious or hurt them (I can post scans of this if you want) and how the process is instant. Well, because of both of those facts we can deduce that Emma had to have psi-bolted her before she used the gun and that the gun was not the reason for Storms brain being fried."
And here are the scans mentioned:
Both times when it says a psi-bolt was used, Storm goes down without being able to do anything to her attacker, even in an instance that you put forth as representative of what a psychic attack does to Storm.
You say that what I showed was a young storm, but her willpower and psychic resistance have been with her all her life.
And they've grown.
You even talk about how she resisted and attacked Shadow King as a child. If your argument is that Emma only succeeded because that was a young and weak-willed Storm, that would logically be even more true when she was a child,
This was an error on my part. When she resisted the SK she wasn't a child she was reduced to the form of a child.
Your scan is nice but it doesn't actually disprove what I'm saying. We don't know what Emma's "psychic assault" was.
She was trying to hurt/kill Storm. Psychic surgery usually involves implanting detailed false memories and such.
I imagine any big attack on Storm would involve that. Emma's wording also adds something as well. She talks about her telepathic skill and knowing Storm's mind. I don't think a simple telepathic blast takes skill or deep knowledge.
When Rachel assaulted Storm she didn't know the first thing about her mind. And she failed to take control over her. Emma having a deeper knowledge of Storm doesn't really mean anything if she is in her body. She doesn't know how Storm was going to actually react. You have to admit that they have completely different personalities.
Another note, in the image, Storm has just been fighting Emma for a little while already. Storm's mind is prepped for a back and forth battle since she's already having one
This was the beginning of the fight. There was no mind prep on Storm's part. The only thing she did was form a rapport with her own body. Hardly the precursor to a full psychic assault.
She has no prep in this fight with which to raise defenses, strengthen her will or anything of the sort. When the fight starts, Emma would be able to get the drop on her like she has multiple times in the past.
You mean Xavier?
Storm doesn't require time to get her defenses up. Here when Rachel thought she belonged to the inhabitants of the Savage Land she attacked Storm while she was in the middle of attacking her opponent. One panel later Rachel stated Storm was fighting her. And take note to what's happening to the weather. This is my main reason for thinking Storm has a chance. Nightcrawler later stated that her storm was building exponentially. Xavier has human durability. Wind that can crush bones. Ice than can freeze the moister in his lungs. And more are all what she can possibly do when she comes under attack. Hard to concentrate with all of that coming down around you.
And as for that other instance in Uncanny that I was talking about, it comes in the same story as the scan you posted, so you can't say it was a young storm. I found a good break down of it on a respect thread. Lemme just copy and paste: "Note the second scan first. The last thing Storm in Emma's body remembers is facing the White Queen and then getting psi-bolted (See first scan for incident). Now remember how the [body switching device] doesn't render the users unconscious or hurt them (I can post scans of this if you want) and how the process is instant. Well, because of both of those facts we can deduce that Emma had to have psi-bolted her before she used the gun and that the gun was not the reason for Storms brain being fried."
That's very weird and I can understand how they came to that conclusion. However whatever the case Storm showed how well she can handle a blast from Emma.
Your scan is nice but it doesn't actually disprove what I'm saying. We don't know what Emma's "psychic assault" was. If it were something like psychic surgery, which Emma is skilled at and known for, where she tries to exert control over someone's brain/body instead of just shutting it down, it would make perfect sense for Storm to be able to hold it off and shock Emma.
You forgot to read what Storm said after Emma replied. "Once, Oh majesty of Evil, That may have been so but not any longer". This indicates that Emma was attacking Storm with the same attack that she had done previously to that encounter. And the only other times were the two psi bolts that you mentioned.
Uncanny X-men 150: Xavier attacks Magneto with an on panel stated "psi bolt" and Magneto resists it on willpower alone.
@Son Of Storm: Psychic surgery isn't only about messing with memories. Emma uses it a lot and it covers things like affecting senses, manipulating memories, controlling the body and dominating the mind. An assault is simply an attack. Emma could have been attacking Storm in many ways that weren't simple and direct shut downs like a psi-bolt is. When it's clearly stated that a psi-bolt was used, Storm goes down without putting up much of a fight. That cannot be denied.
I don't know why you mentiond Rachel, taking control of Storm's mind, or knowing Storm's mind. None of those are things I'm saying matter for this fight. I only brought up that last one because in the fight that happened before, Emma talked about knowing Storm's mind, which suggests that knowledge is useful for what she's about to do, which it would be for something like psychic surgery, not really for something as basic as a psychic blast. Emma doesn't need to know how Storm will react and personalities don't matter. A psychic blast doesn't depend on those things which is why Xavier could use that to beat Storm and completely bypass the things in Storms mind that might slow him down, whether they be electricity or willpower.
I'm not saying Storm sat down and meditated, but she was fully aware of her attacker and had been engaging her. It wasn't as it is in this scenario where they're basically sprung on each other, not knowing who they're up against until the last second. Storm knew she was up against a telepath.
Yup, I meant Xavier. He'd drop Storm as easily as Emma has more than once in the past.
In the scan with Rachel, Storm mentions that her thoughts are alien. I'm not going to get into how Rachel wasn't herself, but she was clearly doing more than trying to just shut Storm down if she was communicating thoughts during her attack. As for Xavier having a hard time concentrating, he won't. He won't have to concentrate because it's not a prolonged attack. He's simply psi-bolting and finishing. It's not some long back and forth. He does what Emma's done and Storm goes down. He won't be taking shots at her while she's already using her powers, he'll be hitting her with a blast that requires no follow-up concentration. I'll say it again, when it's clearly stated that a psi-bolt was used, Storm goes down without putting up much of a fight. That cannot be denied.
Your scan is nice but it doesn't actually disprove what I'm saying. We don't know what Emma's "psychic assault" was. If it were something like psychic surgery, which Emma is skilled at and known for, where she tries to exert control over someone's brain/body instead of just shutting it down, it would make perfect sense for Storm to be able to hold it off and shock Emma.
You forgot to read what Storm said after Emma replied. "Once, Oh majesty of Evil, That may have been so but not any longer". This indicates that Emma was attacking Storm with the same attack that she had done previously to that encounter. And the only other times were the two psi bolts that you mentioned. Uncanny X-men 150: Xavier attacks Magneto with an on panel stated "psi bolt" and Magneto resists it on willpower alone.
I didn't forget to read anything. Storm saying that she can stand up to a telepathic attack doesn't mean it's the same attack that Emma used before. There is nothing that states that Emma is attacking her with the same sort of psychic attack that she used before. And ignoring the fact that Magneto is not Storm, his dealings with telepathy have been many, and he deals with it differently at different times. By some accounts his telepathic defenses come from his helmet and at other times it's said that it's his will alone. I don't know which it was at that moment, but if there are times when he can be immune to telepathic tampering even without his helmet, then him being immune to telepathic tampering without his helmet is not a big deal for me. On the other hand, Storm consistently goes down to psi-bolts. Storm not going down to something that wasn't said to be a psi-bolt doesn't change that.
@Buckshot: So now your saying she is unaware of what sort of attack she is being attacked with? Magneto was able to identify that he was being attacked with a psi bolt when Xavier hit him with one so why wouldn't Storm be aware that she is being assaulted with the same attack that took her out twice before?
Magneto's helmet was not protecting him from telepathic attacks back then, he was resisting his telepathic attacks off of willpower alone, his helmet protection is something that came much later. Storm has been stated on panel to have a stronger will than Magneto as well as possibly Xavier, when dealing with mental manipulation and telepathic attacks, so anything Magneto does against telepaths Storm should be able to do better.
And you're referencing events before her telepathic resistance was established and claiming them as still viable after Storm already stated on panel that this no longer is the case.
For those stating that psi bolts cannot be resisted on willpower-
Magneto taking a psi bolt(at full power) from Xavier while fighting a full team of X-men and resisting long enough to hit him on the head with a metal object
Helmet was in tact, and again here in the same issue. A "telepathic attack" . Nothing stated on panel about the helmet providing any resistance.
Withstanding the combine power of Xavier, Oracle, Psylocke, and Warskrull's "Psychic Attack". Indomitable Will being compared to that of Xavier's and also stated to eventually breaking free of the attack.
After being captured and mind controlled by Mojo, Storm is stated to have the strongest will of the X-men. Current members were Magneto, Nightcrawler, Wolverine, Shadowcat, Rogue, Colossus, and Psylocke.
@Buckshot: So now your saying she is unaware of what sort of attack she is being attacked with? Magneto was able to identify that he was being attacked with a psi bolt when Xavier hit him with one so why wouldn't Storm be aware that she is being assaulted with the same attack that took her out twice before? Magneto's helmet was not protecting him from telepathic attacks back then, he was resisting his telepathic attacks off of willpower alone, his helmet protection is something that came much later. Storm has been stated on panel to have a stronger will than Magneto as well as possibly Xavier, when dealing with metal manipulation and telepathic attacks, so anything Magneto does against telepaths Storm should be able to do better. And you're referencing events before her telepathic resistance was established and claiming them as still viable after Storm already stated on panel that this no longer is the case.
Why wouldn't Storm be able to react to it like Magneto? Because she's shown that she can't. At least twice.
If Magneto was resisting telepathic attacks with willpower alone, him continuing to do so isn't really worth mentioning. Storm does not have that history of resisting straight forward attempts to shut her down with willpower alone. The electricity in her brain causes interference and messes with telepathy in some ways, but it clearly doesn't help when it comes to direct blasts like the psi-bolts are.
If Storm can do anything Magneto can do but better, then she wouldn't have the problem with psibolts she's shown to have.
All I'm doing is showing that while she does have resistance to telepathy when it comes to things like manipulation, reading, probes and the like, she takes direct psychic blasts like most other characters (and that even means that at times, she probably does very well against them because that's how it looks for most other characters as well). I'm not doing anything but pointing out what's consistent.
What she stated on panel was that she can resist a telepathic assault (one that Emma was suggesting took skill and a knowledge of the opponent, which, as I said before, doesn't seem like a psi-bolt). I don't doubt that she can, but not every telepathic assault is a direct psychic blast aimed at shutting her down.
Why wouldn't Storm be able to react to it like Magneto? Because she's shown that she can't. At least twice.
Before her telepathic resistance was established, no time after she said that Emma would never best her in telepathy again did it ever happen again. You have no proof.
Storm takes the majority here IMO. If Xavier could shut her down before she could nail him, then I think he could win, but the argument that the specific TP attacks that she has resisted in the past wasn't clearly described on panel is not strong or compelling. Storm has a well established history with handling repeated TP assaults from a telepath Xavier himself struggles against (i.e. - Shadow King) and defeated those in his range of power (i.e. - Emma Frost and Elias Bogan). She has resisted a telepathic assault that combined Xavier's TP power with Oracle and Psylockes as well. Xavier is one of the most powerful telepaths but that does not guarantee he can defeat Storm with a psi-bolt. The showings with Shadow King, Rachel Grey, Emma Frost and Elias Bogan more than prove that Storm should be able to resist Xavier long enough to take him in a fight. She's taken down Emma twice after Emma attempted a TP assault, took out the Shadow king on her own when she was regressed to a child and nearly blew Rachel Grey away or nearly nailed her with lightning during the World's End story arc in Uncanny, had Rachel not been saved by Raina both times. A psi-bolt from Xavier would hurt Storm, but I don't think it would take her out with her defenses to TP and resistance, where as she could one shot him in a number of ways.
Goodness some people are clouded by biasness Storm for the majority....
Are you ok in the head? No way Storm wins...
Yes I am very sane...The reason why I say this is because.... @Son Of Storm said:
Now the reason why I think Storm has more of a chance than most are giving her is simply because she has shown multiple times that she can withstand extremely powerful assaults from high ranking telepaths. The scans being used against Storm show a Storm that wasn't nearly as "will strong" as she is now. If a telepath attacks her mind she doesn't get KO. No she does the one thing that makes me think she has a chance. She strikes back with everything she can muster. Charles has absolutely no defense against any weather phenomenon Storm produces when she fights off attacks. Not to mention that even Xavier stated that when she activates her powers the backlash if painful. Any one of her attacks can disable him. Be it heavy winds, cold, or even flaring lighting. None of these has to be completely focused on him for it to cause him to loose focus or even by KO.
I ask anyone to produce a scan of Xavier in extreme weather conditions pushing his telepathy to the max and not loosing focus.
@THUNDERBOLT30: Exactly, I do believe it would hurt her, just as it hurt her still when Emma tried to assault her after they switched bodies. Except that time she was able to react with an attack of her own and intercept the assault. Magneto did the very same thing against Xavier when he hit him on his head with a metal object to intercept his "Psi Bolt".
Why wouldn't Storm be able to react to it like Magneto? Because she's shown that she can't. At least twice.
Before her telepathic resistance was established, no time after she said that Emma would never best her in telepathy again did it ever happen again. You have no proof.
Now, I don't know if this was, strictly speaking, a psi-bolt, but that doesn't actually matter. If it's anything less than a psi-bolt it only proves my point more. Regardless though, what it shows is that Emma, with a single direct attack (meant to "fry her brain") was able to incapacitate Storm. Storm says nothing as she falls, she doesn't appear to fight back and she doesn't even try to orient herself. She's no longer conscious as she's dropping from the sky. Emma did that with a single attack. Storm wakes up a couple pages later after Emma attempts to use telepathy to modify Storm's behavior. During that, Storm is able to fight back. During the brain-frying direct attack though, she does nothing. Clear difference. Psi-bolt (or something like one) knocks Storm out without any resistance. Other telepathic attacks (like manipulation) meet resistance. That's 3 examples now and this one was "after her resistance was established".
And your proof that she can go unaffected by a psi-bolt is...
@Buckshot: IIRC Emma lost that battle. Also after the last three pages that you pointed out after the scan you provided, this one says "Meanwhile" so this was happening right after they fell in your scan.
Storm was playing possum. What happens when Xavier gets struck in the mouth with lightning?
I recall the X-treme X-Men #22 issue where this fight took place and I did not see anything to indicate that Storm was unconcious, only stunned by an attack she wasn't expecting. Storm was still concious, obviously hurt by the attack, and was already getting up when Emma tried to "modify Storm's behavior" and then got hit with lightning and then wind.
And I do believe I said "Best Storm with her telepathy". Emma stunned Storm long enough for her to lose flight, and got a lightning bolt shoved down her mouth a few seconds later. That is not considered besting someone considering she lost that fight. I fully expect Storm not to be focusing on flying when taking on a full psychic assault from Xavier, and prepared for it at that.
@Buckshot: IIRC Emma lost that battle. Also after the last three pages that you pointed out after the scan you provided, this one says "Meanwhile" so this was happening right after they fell in your scan.
Storm was playing possum. What happens when Xavier gets struck in the mouth with lightning?
Emma losing the battle has nothing to do with fight. Does the fight going on "meanwhile" in anyway make what I said about it happening a few pages later incorrect? No, so why bring it up? Now, do you have any proof storm was playing possum or is that just what you tell yourself? If Storm was just going to lightning blast Emma away, she could have done that before they hit the snow, especially if she's as quick on the draw as I usually hear people claim. She didn't have to fall like she did. It's not like she accomplished anything by laying there. So unless she says she was playing possum (which is possible, i don't recall) you don't have anything to suggest she was. A psi-blast took Storm down. If Emma had continued to fry her brain or maybe just broken her neck instead of trying to mess with her brain, the fight might have ended differently, we don't know. All we know is that, as is consistent with previous showings, a psychic blast was sufficient to incapacitate Storm for a time. It could easily have been followed by more (and more severe) psi-bolts to keep Storm down even longer, but Emma chose not to do that. So again, three examples of a psi-bolt taking Storm down without her fighting back with lightning or winds or anything. You can keep telling me I don't have proof, but I've shown it. Direct attacks to shut down her brain work well. Other stuff, not so much.
I recall the X-treme X-Men #22 issue where this fight took place and I did not see anything to indicate that Storm was unconcious, only stunned by an attack she wasn't expecting. Storm was still concious, obviously hurt by the attack, and was already getting up when Emma tried to "modify Storm's behavior" and then got hit with lightning and then wind.
@Storm Calling said:
And I do believe I said "Best Storm with her telepathy". Emma stunned Storm long enough for her to lose flight, and got a lightning bolt shoved down her mouth a few seconds later. That is not considered besting someone considering she lost that fight. I fully expect Storm not to be focusing on flying when taking on a full psychic assault from Xavier, and prepared for it at that.
If Storm didn't lose consciousness and is as quick as you guys say, why was Emma able to not only explain her whole plan but re-position both of their bodies as they fell, but Storm was unable to get off a lightning bolt or even a gust a wind to defend herself or at least not fall under Emma? Even if she really was just stunned that whole time, that would still count as her being incapacitated, and Emma (or Charles in this case) could always take that opening to hit her with more and more powerful psi-bolts (instead of doing something like talking to her and re-positioning her body). Psi-bolts incapacitate Storm. That's what the comics show. Deal with it.
I'm getting ready to go to sleep. We can carry this on tomorrow if you really want to. I'm just posting what the comics show though.
@Buckshot: IIRC Emma lost that battle. Also after the last three pages that you pointed out after the scan you provided, this one says "Meanwhile" so this was happening right after they fell in your scan.
Storm was playing possum. What happens when Xavier gets struck in the mouth with lightning?
Emma losing the battle has nothing to do with fight. Does the fight going on "meanwhile" in anyway make what I said about it happening a few pages later incorrect? No, so why bring it up? Now, do you have any proof storm was playing possum or is that just what you tell yourself? If Storm was just going to lightning blast Emma away, she could have done that before they hit the snow, especially if she's as quick on the draw as I usually hear people claim. She didn't have to fall like she did. It's not like she accomplished anything by laying there. So unless she says she was playing possum (which is possible, i don't recall) you don't have anything to suggest she was. A psi-blast took Storm down. If Emma had continued to fry her brain or maybe just broken her neck instead of trying to mess with her brain, the fight might have ended differently, we don't know. All we know is that, as is consistent with previous showings, a psychic blast was sufficient to incapacitate Storm for a time. It could easily have been followed by more (and more severe) psi-bolts to keep Storm down even longer, but Emma chose not to do that. So again, three examples of a psi-bolt taking Storm down without her fighting back with lightning or winds or anything. You can keep telling me I don't have proof, but I've shown it. Direct attacks to shut down her brain work well. Other stuff, not so much.
I brought it up because you brought it up Buckshot. You made note that Storm was on the ground for three pages when in truth she was only on the ground until the page I provided after your scan, which was only a few seconds. If you consider that a win for Emma considering she lost then I don't know what to say to that.
Storm had to catch Emma out of Diamond form, otherwise the lightning would not have worked. She had to be quick and decisive. She waited until Emma used her telepathy again before she attempted to surprise her as she had just did to Storm. If Emma is using her telepathy then this would automatically indicate that she was no longer in her diamond form. The Psi bolt obviously wasn't enough to take Storm out so she tried to go a different route by modifying Storm's mind because she figured she wouldn't have the will to resist it after her surprise attack.
Xavier doesn't get this luxury, he doesn't have a diamond form and the slightest bolt of lightning will render him ineffective against Storm. And your two instances render her unconscious for a long time, long enough to be transported and taken somewhere twice. This was not the case here, so why is it less effective now?
I recall the X-treme X-Men #22 issue where this fight took place and I did not see anything to indicate that Storm was unconcious, only stunned by an attack she wasn't expecting. Storm was still concious, obviously hurt by the attack, and was already getting up when Emma tried to "modify Storm's behavior" and then got hit with lightning and then wind.
@Storm Calling said:
And I do believe I said "Best Storm with her telepathy". Emma stunned Storm long enough for her to lose flight, and got a lightning bolt shoved down her mouth a few seconds later. That is not considered besting someone considering she lost that fight. I fully expect Storm not to be focusing on flying when taking on a full psychic assault from Xavier, and prepared for it at that.
If Storm didn't lose consciousness and is as quick as you guys say, why was Emma able to not only explain her whole plan but re-position both of their bodies as they fell, but Storm was unable to get off a lightning bolt or even a gust a wind to defend herself or at least not fall under Emma? Even if she really was just stunned that whole time, that would still count as her being incapacitated, and Emma (or Charles in this case) could always take that opening to hit her with more and more powerful psi-bolts (instead of doing something like talking to her and re-positioning her body). Psi-bolts incapacitate Storm. That's what the comics show. Deal with it.
I'm getting ready to go to sleep. We can carry this on tomorrow if you really want to. I'm just posting what the comics show though.
The fall could have also played a part in her being able to explain her plan. But it was clear that she was playing possum as Storm heard her and replied when she hit her with the bolt of lightning. Again, Storm was trying to catch Emma out of diamond form, but there was no way that she would have known if she was face down in the snow.
@Buckshot: Nothing stated that she was unconcious. Itm akes more sense that was only stunned, as she was getting up moments later (hence why Storm Calling "emphasized "meanwhile" and it didn't state "later"), and I don't see how that would count as someone being incapacitated. Why would Emma explain her plan to "make the fall hurt" to Storm if she was unable to hear it? You only showed scans of Storm being taken unawares and not prepared to defend herself, and that won't be the case for this battle. Storm can obviously be hurt by TP attacks...no one has stated otherwise....but in this battle she is expecting it, and is quick enough to get her defenses up and attack.
@Storm Calling: I didn't say Storm was on the ground for three pages. I made no reference to the time that was passing. I said Storm got up a couple pages later when Emma was doing something to her. That is correct. The action continued a couple pages later. All I was doing was saying where it happened in the comic. If you feel the need to correct something that was correct to begin with, I won't stand in your way. The actual point of my statement was just to set up the second psychic attack where Storm did actually do something to defend herself. I felt that was important because it showed a different reaction. How many pages later it happened doesn't really matter. Now, I don't know why you said "If you consider that a win for Emma...." when that is clearly not what I'm saying. In fact I said "Emma losing the battle has nothing to do with this fight." Seems to me I said pretty explicitly that Emma lost the battle. If you think me saying Emma lost is me "considering it a win for Emma" then I don't know what to say to that.
This whole time you've been suggesting that while Xavier is throwing out a psi-bolt, Storm would be hitting him back with lightning and all these things that his human body can't take. The idea that I've gotten is that Storm will be hitting back at the same time, not waiting until after the attack is over. If she can resist the psi-bolt and attack back, she could have done it here. She would have been able to hit Emma while she was getting hit the way it's been suggested she'd do to Charles. If you're now saying that she had to wait until she got another chance, then that means she couldn't do it during the first attack. Storm can't counter attack while getting psi-bolted.
You can say it "obviously" wasn't enough to take out Storm, but you can't actually show that Storm was conscious or capable of acting normally as she fell or shortly after. If Storm was tricking Emma, there should be something to indicate it. All you've got is speculation when there's a simpler explanation. I could come up with some reasons why Storm wasn't out for as long. Maybe it was because Emma hit her with a weak blast because she was only going to be flesh for a second before going back to diamond. Maybe falling in the snow woke Storm up. Maybe Emma's psychic powers starting to work on Storm's brain before she touched her woke her up. I'm sure I could sit hear and speculate, but it doesn't really matter. Regardless of how long she was incapacitated (certainly the several seconds it took to fall, probably a good chunk of time given all Emma did, and then a few seconds in the snow) she was incapacitated by a direct mental blast because her will and her powers don't stop those. That's the point I've been making and which none of you have been able to disprove. Psi-bolts drop Storm. Even if its only for a second, whoever's doing them can always do more and increase in power if one's not enough.
As for Storm "clearly" playing possum since she could respond. The only thing it looks like she responds to is the comment Emma makes in the panel where Storm is wide awake. Unless it's on another page, Storm doesn't respond to what Emma says before that.
@THUNDERBOLT30: You know you can be knocked out for seconds right? Just because Storm wasn't down for an hour doesn't mean she wasn't unconscious. If you don't see how Storm being unable to act as she normally would counts as her being incapacitated, you should look up the word. Are you seriously asking me why someone like Emma would gloat over an enemy even if they couldn't hear? REALLY? People gloat all the time. Forgetting the fact that this sort of thing is for the reader to understand what's going on, it makes sense in the world of the comic too. Gloating fits within Emma's personality. It's not for Storm, it's for herself. It's the same reason tons of villains monologue, whether in front of people or by themselves. Same principle.
Storm won't be prepared to defend herself in this battle. There's no prep. They'd learn of each other at the same time and the same thing that allows Storm to be taken unaware when she's come across Emma in the past will work here. It would probably be closest to the second instance though, when Storm turns around and sees Emma and registers her presence (pretty sure Emma said something too) but still didn't get her defenses up. Emma didn't psi-bolt her before Storm knew she was there in that instance. Storm was aware of her and still went down. Same deal. Now let me sleep.
@Buckshot: You have nothing to support that Storm was unconcious... at all. The fact that she was getting back up moments later is more proof of her being stunned than being unconcious. And no, I'm not seriously asking you anything since I already know what transpired in the issue. You asked " why was Emma able to not only explain her whole plan but re-position both of their bodies as they fell, but Storm was unable to get off a lightning bolt or even a gust a wind to defend herself or at least not fall under Emma?"....to support that Storm was unconcious because she did not react as they fell, but, that is still your assumption that she was incapacitated, and that Emma was having a villainous "gloating" moment vs telling a stunned concious Storm that she wanted to make sure she was hurt by the fall....we are free to interpret the dialogue any which way we like, and can agree to disagree on that point.
And no, what happened with Emma will not happen here. It was an obvious surprise attack. In that issue, Storm spoke to Emma first and told her to relax her body as she caught her. She was completely unaware Emma was about to attack hera moment later, with Emma's dialogue to Storm happening as she attacked. So that example of this being the "same deal" here is not applicable to this battle since Storm, unlike in your scan, is aware she is in a fight and can react.
I never stated there was prep here either, only that will be prepared because she knows she is in a battle and can execute her attacks at least at the speed of thought, same as Xavier. Ultimately, as we are not going to convince each other on this, we can simply agree to disagree.
@Buckshot: The fact is Buckshot is that Emma lost that battle. You cannot credit that Psi Bolt effective considering it only "In Fact" dropped Storm from flying, and nothing else considering Emma got a mouth full of lightning a few moments later. Anything else is speculation from both parties.Your assuming it knocked her out, and I'm assuming it didn't. I could just as easily say that the fall knocked the wind out of Storm and was the reason she didn't get up right away. The problem is this is the only viable scan you can use because the other two were before her telepathic resistance was established. That's why it makes your points inconclusive at best, because neither of us truly know for a fact what the Psi Bolt did to Storm beside stun her long enough to lose flight at best. All we know is Emma lost that battle and received a mouth full of lightning a few moments later after this "Psi Bolt" was applied. The combined telepathic assault did the very same thing, flooring Storm, but it was stated that she would eventually break free of the assault. What happens to Xavier when Storm breaks free of his assault? The combined power of Oracle, Psylocke, Warskrull, and him wasn't even enough. Again, looking at the evidence I provided, a psi bolt can be combated off of sheer willpower, which you claimed it couldn't.
Storm's "indomitable will" to telepathic attacks has been compared to both Xavier and Magneto's, so I could easily chalk that one showing of her getting dropped with that psychic attack, after her telepathic resistance was established, as PIS considering all of the times she has withstood psychic attacks far more powerful than Emma's. Either that or because it was a surprise attack, and her mind was unprepared as Thunderbolt pointed out. Telepathic attacks are called several different things, force bolt/psi bolt/psi blast/psychic assaults/mental assault, but they generally are and do the same thing and can be all fought off with sheer willpower. I have proven that fact, read the scans I posted of Magneto calling it a "Psi Bolt" and another encounter referring it to a Telepathic Assault, he resist both off of sheer willpower alone. I have also proven Storm's willpower to be comparable to that of Xavier's and Magneto's when dealing with telepathic attacks. All things point to Storm's being able to combat this "Psi Bolt" verses your one scan after her "Indomitable will" was established, which is inconclusive at best, and she still recovered from it a few moments later and defeated Emma anyway .
I think it's odd that your asking for a scan of her resisting an attack when it's specifically called a "psi bolt" when Storm only called it that once. The other times the attack isn't even referred to as a "Psi Bolt", so how do we know this one special attack is any different than a telepathic assault or a mental attack? It all just sounds like your describing a special attack that you made up yourself. I can understand that a Psi Attack is different from mind control, but not a Psi-Bolt being different from a Mental Assault and Mind Control. You have zero evidence to suggest this. What I'm getting out of your post is anytime Storm is affected by telepthy, you consider it this special "Psi Bolt". I'm sorry, but you do not have enough evidence to proclaim this as a fact. When I see a scan of someone stating that this "Psi Bolt" is irresistible to sheer willpower then I will concede to your points.
@THUNDERBOLT30: To incapacitate means to make so that another cannot function in their normal way. Emma's psi-bolt incapacitated Storm. Based on what we see in the comic and no indication from Storm that she was "playing possum" we can say that Storm was incapacitated. Yes, she got up later. That doesn't change that she was incapacitated by a psi-bolt. The psi-bolt encountered no resistance and Storm did not display the ability to counter the psi-bolt with her weather control to harm Emma in the way that has been suggested by the Storm supporters in this thread. Emma talking to her also does not make her conscious (though even if she were conscious, she was still incapacitated). Interpret Emma's speech however you want, but until there's some sort of explicit confirmation that Storm was playing possum, the comic strongly suggests that she was incapacitated and likely unconscious for the long seconds of her fall. (You're making a big deal about it only being "moments later" but for all that happened to happen in the time of their fall, it would have been plenty of time for any psychic to follow up with numerous additional attacks. Even being incapacitated for moments leaves her vulnerable.) If you have nothing clearly showing that Storm was playing possum, she was incapacitated, and as I've been saying and have shown with multiple examples, psi-bolts can incapacitate Storm and her defenses and counter-attacks don't come into play.
When I was saying that it would happen like it did in the comic, I was referring to the instance before Emma switched their minds, not the one in X-Treme. In that instance, Storm was aware of Emma's presence before she got psi-bolted and still could do nothing about it.
@Storm Calling: You keep talking about Emma losing like I've denied it or like it matters. Regardless of the outcome of the fight the psi-bolt was effective since it incapacitated Storm and Storm had no defenses or counter-attack. What happened long seconds later (you watch any kind of fighting sport, seconds are a long time) after Emma manhandled Storm in midair and talked to her for a while doesn't change that in the slightest. Storm was incapacitated by the very definition of the word. While I think it's incredibly likely that she was knocked out, whether she was or not is irrelevant. She was rendered unable to respond to Emma's next actions for a significant chunk of time. You really think that in the time it took Emma to talk to Storm and flip her around in midair she couldn't have hit her with dozens of more psi-bolts had she not needed to be diamond? The psi-bolt was effective and left Storm open. Emma later tried another mental attack that was less direct and her window had closed and she was beaten as a result, but that doesn't change that the psi-bolt did incapacitate Storm for a significant period of time without any resistance.
Other psychic assaults against Storm that aren't stated to be psi-bolts (in that they shut down the brain to some extent, but rather affect it in a less direct way) don't really matter. It's clear that she can fight those off which is why I'm not saying that would be the way to take her down quickly. Psi-bolts against other characters with a history of stopping direct psychic attacks also don't matter because that's not what Storm's history has shown. Storm's history has shown that psi-bolts can take her down and her current characterization reinforces that. You can keep talking about how my points are inconclusive but you haven't shown Storm fighting back during a psi-bolt yet you stand by it like it's the only truth in the universe. All psychic attacks are not the same so don't try to say that they are in attempt to obscure Storm's obvious weakness to direct, brain-frying attacks.
"Everything" points to the fact that Storm can fight off psi-bolts except that when she's actually hit with one she falls out of the sky with a scream. That doesn't seem dubious to you? You can bank on what Magneto can do all you want, but that doesn't help Storm. Storm's telepathic defense comes largely from how her powers work, and though similar, they are not the same as Magneto's powers. Heck, Magneto has done things that simulated true telepathy on a few occasions (and I don't want to hear about the theories that Storm's powers are "really" telepathy). Magneto has shown to block direct telepathic attacks. Storm's track record isn't as nice in that regard and her defenses don't even come from the same source, so what he can do doesn't sub in for her abilities.
As for the terminology, since you think I'm making it up, in both the older instances it was clearly stated to be some sort of "bolt". Storm used the term in both instances, not just once. I didn't pick the term and I don't know what makes a telepathic or psionic bolt special exactly, but it's clearly not an attempt at manipulation, control, reading or probing. Going off what "bolt" means it's defining characteristic seems to be its suddenness and explosive nature. That's clearly different from other kinds of psychic attacks like those I mentioned and more. In addition to what the word means, we also have what was shown. A psychic bolt results in a different reaction from Storm than other psychic attacks. Even beyond the scans I've already shown that prove that, you have Xavier's comments about interference and static when doing other things in or with Storm's mind. Emma's usage of bolts has never prompted such a statement. So by name, by results, and by additional comments there is clearly a difference between a psychic bolt and other mental attacks, at least in Storm's case. With regards to the third fight though, I said when I posted it that I don't know if it was a bolt of some sort. The comic doesn't say. All I know was that it was an attempt to fry Storm's brain quickly (sounds like a bolt, especially the definition of bolt that describes lightning) instead of mess with it (like her later attack) and it worked. If it wasn't a bolt, all that means is that there's further proof that direct, brain-frying attacks disregard Storm's defenses. If the three times Storm is knocked out by telepathy it's described as a bolt, I think that's plenty to suggest that she responds to bolts differently. I don't know if it's irresistible to willpower, but in Storm's case, her willpower never seems to stop it.
@Buckshot: It was a cheap shot, Storm wasn't prepared for the attack, that much is known and of fact. Each of the other instances you provided were also surprise attacks. If you watch any fighting match and see someone hit their opponent while their back is turned or is unaware and wasn't trying to fight at that moment, then clearly the crowd will see it as unfair. In many of the cases if the opponent would have knew the person was going to fight, they would found a way to effectively counter or brace themselves for the attack. Storm never got to do this in any of the instances you provided, they were all surprise ambush attacks and by the mere fact that Storm was able to recover so quickly in Xtreme X-men encounter proves how much more resistant she has become to the attack. We saw what happens when Emma tried to attack a prepared Storm with a telepathic assault that Storm "believed" she struck her with in the past in UXM 152. Emma wasn't even all the way out of diamond when she attacked Storm with that attack and never went for another Psi Bolt. I could just as easily say she used a large portion of her psionic power to stun Storm for that brief period of time, and didn't have enough reserve to generate another again.
But that would also be speculating. It's a clear fact that she didn't use another Psi Bolt, and it's a clear fact that she lost the battle against Storm. It could have been because she wanted to try another attack but that is mere speculation as well. She used one Psi Bolt and it failed to keep Storm down. It stunned her and made her lose control over her flight but so have other psychic attacks. And again Magneto used no special power to combat Xavier's Psi Bolt, nothing was stated on panel as such so anything stated otherwise is speculation.
It stated very clearly that he used willpower to combat the attack, both instances, shields were not used and neither was the helmet as you claimed. Storm's will has been compared to both Magneto and Xavier's when dealing with telepathic attacks. That very point makes Storm more than capable of handling this Psi Bolt as Magneto did in the panel I provided from UXM 150. I have concrete proof of that at the very least and the fact that Storm believed Emma struck her with the same attack as before and countered it. So I have every right to speculate that she could resist a Psi Bolt considering everything that I have explained. You don't have to agree that she could but I am merely stating why I believe she could, and I believe it is quite viable.
You presented inconclusive evidence and tried to deem this as a fact when it's quite debatable what happened in the panels you provided. You have one viable scan of Storm being stunned by a Psi Bolt she didn't even know was coming or was unprepared for and still coming out on top of the battle.
@Storm Calling: Your statements are laughable. Getting back up after getting knocked on your ass isn't a defense. Call them cheap shots if you want (though Storm had time to react at thought speed in the second instance and she failed to) but they show clearly that Storm's base defenses are insufficient. Psi-bolts take her down and she can't fight back or send lightning at her attacker. You keep acting like Storm has some sort of defense against a psi-bolt yet you haven't shown it. By this point, you should have something to support your statements other than things happening to other characters or attacks that aren't clearly psi-bolts. I don't think that's too much to ask, but you haven't provided that yet.
You're right, Emma didn't use another psi-bolt. That is irrelevant to this discussion because the affects of a psi-bolt have already been proven because Storm goes down every time. As for why she didn't, not that it matters, but it's not speculation to say that she wanted to try something else. She clearly said she wanted to try something else so that Storm would love her in the future and be over what she thought was a grudge. There were no comments made indicating it had anything to do with the effectiveness of her previous attack. She simply wanted to change Storm instead of killing or further incapacitating her. You can't just ignore her own justification without reason. You're also right that Emma lost against Storm. But that's also irrelevant to this discussion because the affects of a psi-bolt have already been proven. Emma choosing to not continue doing what is effective in that instance doesn't apply to everyone else in every other instance. Her losing the fight because she did something different than what I'm suggesting has no bearing.
I didn't say Magneto used a special power. I'm saying he used the same power he'd shown on many occasions to resist direct telepathic attacks. Storm doesn't have the "special power" of Magneto's history. I only talked about power because you want to say Storm can do what Magneto can even though her defenses to telepathy come largely from a difference source than his because a lot of hers comes from her powers and their powers are different. It's not speculation to say that Storm and Magneto don't show the same resistance to TP and don't have the same powers so any abilities they get from said powers aren't necessarily the same.
Please remind me, where did I say that Magneto used his helmet? This is what I recall posting, "And ignoring the fact that Magneto is not Storm, his dealings with telepathy have been many, and he deals with it differently at different times. By some accounts his telepathic defenses come from his helmet and at other times it's said that it's his will alone. I don't know which it was at that moment, but if there are times when he can be immune to telepathic tampering even without his helmet, then him being immune to telepathic tampering without his helmet is not a big deal for me." That doesn't seem to me like I'm saying he needs his helmet to block TP. But maybe I'm remembering incorrectly. It's possible. If I said otherwise, I didn't mean to, but please show me so I can correct it. (Or is this like when you said I didn't think Emma lost the battle when I had already said she had and you're just reading what you want to so you can refute what you read since you can't refute what I'm actually saying?)
Ok, you're now saying that Storm can beat psi-bolts because she has greater willpower, and willpower is what's needed to beat them (since that's what Magneto used). That would mean that willpower is all she's EVER needed to beat psi-bolts, meaning she could have done it even before the whole thing about her natural defenses were established, further meaning that she should have been blocking psi-bolts in even the earlier instances I posted. Lemme say it again in case you're not following. According to you, Storm's greater willpower should allow her to combat a psi-bolt, so it's her willpower, which she had when Emma knocked her out the other times, NOT her telepathic resistances that would prevent a psi-bolt. If she could do it based on willpower, she could have done it before her defenses were established. Yet she didn't. She's gone down to a psi-bolt at least 3 times even though her willpower should be enough to stop it. That would suggest that though you THINK she can withstand a psi-bolt, she actually can't. Because she hasn't. Three times. But despite her falling to psi-bolts multiple times, you think she won't this time. Added note, it's not stated that Storm thought Emma hit her with the same attack. Storm said she could deal with a telepathic assault that she might not have before. Storm DIDN'T say that the telepathic assault was the same that had been used before. Think of it like this. Storm thinks she could juggle 3 balls even though she might not have been able to before. Doesn't mean she thinks she had balls to begin with, just that she can juggle some now and she couldn't have before. Even if you stretch it though, that one ambiguous statement doesn't erase 3 other instances of Storm falling to psi-bolts.
Storm went down to psi-bolts at least three times and couldn't do anything about it. At least find a single example of Storm defending a psi-bolt before you try to say that what I've said is untrue.
1.It was never stated that she was knocked out so you are still speculating. Storm was stunned long enough to lose her flight, and recovered a few moments later to shove lightning down Emma's mouth. Compared to your first two scans where Storm was knocked out long enough to be transported and locked into cells I would say she is allot more resilient to the surprise attack than she used to be. That's my point and a fact!
2. You proved that Storm is susceptible to being stunned by a Psi Bolt when she is completely unprepared for the attack. That is it. You have not proven that Storm can be knocked out by a Psi Bolt after her resistance to telepathic attacks had been established. But again, this is no surprise considering several other telepathic attacks have done the same to her.
3. Storm's resistance to telepathic attacks were still in tact when she had no powers at all, and it was willpower when she fought Emma up until Xtreme X-men, where it was finally established that she used static to prevent deeper mind reading probes. And her lightning field didn't come until much later than that, which has been untested against these Psi Bolts. Notice in the scan I provided where her will was stated to be stronger than Magneto's, she had no powers at all before Mojo warped her mind. Magneto had never resisted telepathy at that time before with anything but willpower, If you want to argue that fact you would need to provide evidence. I have all the facts to suggest why I believe how Storm could resist it while you remain to rely off ambiguous scans at best.
4.
By some accounts his telepathic defenses come from his helmet and at other times it's said that it's his will alone. I don't know which it was at that moment, but if there are times when he can be immune to telepathic tampering even without his helmet, then him being immune to telepathic tampering without his helmet is not a big deal for me.
This specifically describes that you were trying to argue that Magneto was perhaps using his helmet to resist Xavier's telepathy when his helmet shield hadn't even been established back then. The movies were in fact where this came from, and later did they add it in the comics. So this is something that was added but a few years ago. It was all willpower as stated in their telepathic bought where it specifically stated that he had no telepathic talents at all. This was all before this was ever established and yet he still resisted this "Psy Bolt" long enough to clunk Xavier in the skull to take him out. Erik was never Immune to telepathy and the scans provided on the previous page can prove it. Xavier mentioned that Magneto was weakening in the first battle and Magneto experience tremendous pain from the Psi Bolt in the second battle. Proof that even while Magneto can resist he can still be hurt by telepathic attacks as Storm has.
5. Storm was less willed back then and it was before her telepathic resistance was established. When I say her telepathic resistance I mean her "Indomitable Willpower". This was not present before Storm fought Emma in UXM 152 when Storm resisted her telepathic attack for the very first time. Storm even states how before she could have defeated her with that attack, but not any longer. It should be noted that Storm resists telepathy three ways. Indomitable Will, the static in her mind, and by creating a "Lightning Field" to scramble telepathy. Up until X-treme X-men Willpower was all she used.
6. How long has it been since a Psi Bolt has been used? Storm has been attacked by several different telepathic attacks since then and has resisted them. I could ask you to provide me a valid scan where a telepathic Psi Bolt completely took her out of a battle after her telepathic resistance was established.
7. Storm stated, and I quote "Once, Oh majesty of Evil, That may have been so but not any longer". This was after Emma said that Storm could not resist her telepathic attack. This would indicate that Storm can now resist a telepathic attack that Emma had previously used on her, which were the only two "psi bolts" you provided.
How many times do I have to use the word "incapacitated" for you to realize that's the important thing? Her being unconscious doesn't matter. Her being unable to do anything for a little while after a psi-bolt matters. (Though, as much as you seem to want to fight over her consciousness, you can't actually show that she was conscious since all you have is her completely unresponsive to work from.) And again, her getting up faster doesn't mean she doesn't go down in the first place and doesn't actually matter if in the time before she gets up her mind is ripped to pieces. Answer these two questions with a yes or no: Did Storm display the ability to respond for a number of seconds after the psi-bolt? Could more psi-bolts have been delivered in that time?
You say it is Storm's willpower that would protect her from a psi-bolt since that's what Magneto used. Her willpower didn't magically appear one day after the instances I've shown, yet it was insufficient to prevent her from being incapacitated multiple times by psi-bolts. Storm's willpower, regardless of exactly how strong it is and if it's stronger than anyone else's, has been a part of who she is from the beginning. It's not like it was something new that was added. She had her strong willpower the whole time, it was merely described and compared more later.
Wow, your reading comprehension just sucks, doesn't it? How does me saying that Magneto being able to deal with telepathy even without his helmet is not a big deal for me (meaning, it's easy for me to believe) equate to me arguing that he was using his helmet to resist telepathy? You said that's what my statement specifically describes so explain it to me, cuz from where I'm sitting, saying that I believe he can do it without his helmet is the opposite of suggesting he needed his helmet to do it.
Why do you keep asking me for more scans of Storm going to down to psi-bolts when you haven't provided a single one that clearly shows her defending against one?
And no. Again, your reading comprehension deficits are showing. Storm can now resist a telepathic attack from Emma, but was that attack STATED to be the SAME one she fell to before? No. Storm can now resist a telepathic attack that Emma might have been successful with before. It's not stated that what she's trying now is the same thing as what she tried before, just that what she's trying now is something Storm can defend against. And as I said before, what Emma describes is not a psi-bolt. Her words suggest a mental attack that takes skill and a knowledge of her enemy's mind. That's not a psi-bolt, which from the word would be a quick explosion, not a skillfully crafted attack requiring intimate knowledge.
1. Wasn't Storm incapacitated in the combined telepathic assault scan I provided? Yet it was still stated that she would eventually break free. All Xavier has is his telepathy, if that's not enough what do you suspect he defeat her with? Getting stunned by an attack does not give you a win considering Emma still lost the battle.
2. Storm's willpower developed over time, back in the two scans you provided Storm had spent time inside of Emma's body to experience how to combat her attacks, a Psi Bolt especially, as she accidentally used one on kitty. After they switched back bodies Storm stated in plain English and clear as day that Emma could no longer use her attack to bring her down. That is a fact! This established that Storm was now able to use her willpower to combat her telepathic attacks, now and on forth but not before. It wasn't till much later after she mastered her willpower that her will was compared to Xavier and Magneto's. This is how comic books work, characters discover new abilities all the time and evolve. Deal with it.
3. My reading comprehension is just fine, thank you. Just because you never stated that he didn't use the helmet as an absolute fact doesn't mean that you never implied that the option was available.
By some accounts his telepathic defenses come from his helmet and at other times it's said that it's his will alone. I don't know which it was at that moment
My point was to disprove that option entirely, considering his helmet resistance was not established back then. Therefore the only thing he resisted telepathy on back then was his willpower, as stated on panel. If you want to argue this fact, please provide sufficient evidence. As I pointed out myself, Storm also only resisted telepathy off of sheer willpower, but not before those first two Psi Bolts you provided and until X-treme X-men when they established the static in her mind to prevent any deeper psychic probes. And Magneto is not immune to telepathy, only highly resistant as i pointed out. You tried making note that Magneto is simply untouchable when it comes to telepathy, that was not true back then at all.
4. I'm asking for a scan to prove that a Psi Bolt is special against Storm because Magneto resisted Charles full one on sheer willpower. Storm's will to telepathic attacks has been stated to be the strongest of the two. it is as simple as that. If Magneto can do it so could Storm.
5. Yes it was stated to be the same one as before by Storm. Storm said that this was the case before but not any longer after Emma stated that she couldn't resist her telepathic attack. This indicates that Storm is stating that Emma could not do to her what she previously did. And all Emma previously did were those two first Psi Bolt's that you posted. Those were her only attacks on Storm. Emma could have been talking about knowing how Storm would react to the attack, which is by passing out, since she knew it worked on her before twice. Again your just speculating though and I could easily come up with a counter such as that to disprove it. What Storm said could be taken as a fact because she would be aware of what sort of attack Emma was administering on her considering she swapped bodies and experienced the powers herself. Plus she knew she was being attacked with a Psi Bolt in the first encounter when Emma took out the whole team, remember? The thought bubble was coming from Storm.
@Storm Calling: The scan you provided is not what I'm talking about in any way, shape or form. Storm wasn't incapacitated in the way she's shown to be incapacitated multiple times when a psi-bolt is used on her. (I'll add though, it's said that she "might" break free.) If we look at all examples of Storm taking a psi-bolt, the evidence shows that she goes down in a way that doesn't allow her to fight back. And you stay on this Emma losing thing as if it matters. Storm was vulnerable after the psibolt and Emma attacked in a way that didn't take full advantage of that. Her actions don't dictate the events of every other fight in the universe. If Xavier does what Emma did he could lose too, but that's not what I'm suggesting so it's irrelevant.
You know that attacking one way doesn't give you a perfect defense for it right? If I accidentally shot someone that wouldn't mean I suddenly knew how to block bullets. Saying that Storm gained experience on how to combat Emma's attacks because of a misfire is speculation. She may have true, but your reasoning is insufficient. Anyway, this also doesn't matter. Storm has not displayed the ability to go unaffected by a psi-bolt. If it was clear as day that Emma could no longer use any psychic attacks to bring her down, then it wouldn't have happened again in X-Treme. As I've said, Storm saying she may not go down to a psychic attack that would have gotten her before doesn't clearly indicate that the attack she's talking about is a psi-bolt. ESPECIALLY when she goes down to a psi-bolt later on. I know characters grow, but even with all her growth, Storm's inability to fight off a psi-bolt still exists as was clearly shown.
OMFG I'm considering just calling you retarded because you just can't understand my point about Magneto. I don't disagree that he defended a telepathic attack with willpower. THAT HAS NEVER BEEN A PROBLEM FOR ME. Me saying I don't know if that's what he was doing at that point doesn't mean I have a problem with it if he was. Whether or not he was using his helmet, it made sense to me that he could protect himself. Him having the helmet doesn't change anything for me. Immune may have been the wrong word, but my thought was just that he can resist psychic attacks with or without the helmet. Whatever level of resistance he has, I don't have a problem with it if it comes from him or his helmet. So tell me you understand now that it doesn't matter to me if he had his helmet or not.
I've shown more scans of Storm being incapacitated by psi-bolts than you've shown of her resisting them. Nothing you say actually changes that.
What Storm's said means that Emma could not do to her what she previously could have done. It doesn't directly connect that to what she DID do. Even if Storm thought she was protected from a psi-bolt though like you claim, she was clearly wrong because she went down to one later.
Keep telling me you don't have issues with reading comprehension.I gave you several straightforward questions to answer and you didn't. Go back and answer my questions.
@Buckshot: I have no idea why you are mentioning to me about Storm "playing possum", since I never said she was. I recall stating the attack stunned her and that she was not unconcious or incapacitated, and nothing suggested that she was as I also recall both Storm and Emma getting up about the same time right after they landed, but like I stated, and it is not at all important to me to convince you, we can agree to disagree on that. And in classic uncanny Emma caught Storm by surprise in both instances. In the second encounter, Storm, who had her back to the door and was deep in thought, yelled Emma's name in surprise when Emma announced herself by responding to Storm's thoughts as she entered the room and then we don't see what happens to know if Storm even got a chance to react. I don't see how this would qualify as Storm knowing Emma was in the room and being ready to respond to an attack, but we can also agree to disagree on that. I have no problem with Storm being affected by TP assaults, whether it's psi-bolts, mind control, etc. - (though I also think that there was an instance where she was hit with a psi-bolt from a gene national but still fought him back and impaled him) since that is consistent with her showings, but I also will not downplay that she has successfully defended against TP assaults on numerous occasions and has been able to counter attack, since she has done this to Emma right after she got her body back in classic uncanny, has done this with Shadow King as well, Psylocke and Rachel Grey. As I've already stated, if Xavier can shut down Storm's mind then he could win but I am giving the majority to Storm since she can defend against his TP assaults and can also one-shot him at least at the same speed as he could attack. You don't agree, which is fine, so let's leave it at that.
I mentioned her playing possum because its the only alternative to her being incapacitated whether you originally used those words or not. Storm fell out of the sky which is normally something she can avoid, so either she couldn't do what she normally can (meaning she was incapacitated) or she could, she just chose not to, (meaning that she was acting like she couldn't...playing possum). Does that make things clearer for you? As for "nothing suggesting that she was incapacitated" I'd disagree. I think the word "incapacitated" and her inability to function in a normal way suggest she was incapacitated.
As for the second instance of Storm getting knocked out by a psi-bolt, its plenty to show that she can't defend herself. If she can attack at thought speed like I've heard claimed so often and if she can defend and counter-attack while being psi-bolted (which has been suggested in this thread since people are saying Storm can fight back and hit Xavier with lightning or other weather abilities) then the amount of time it took for her to turn, identify who was there and yell their name was enough time to do something. The time it took for her to be psi-bolted would also be enough for her to do something. Storm knew who her enemy was and was aware of her presence yet she was was unable to do anything to stop herself from being knocked out and there's no mention of Emma being harmed in any way.
You think Storm could one-shot him with the same speed that he could attack at, but if that were true, she could have taken down Emma at the same speed Emma took her down with a psi-bolt since Storm obviously knew she was there before she got knocked out. You're right, Storm has resisted psychic attacks in the past, but you have shown no evidence of her being in a functional state right after a psi-bolt while I have three instances that show she gets incapacitated from them. If you want to leave it, just leave.
@blacharrt: You do realize that the first image only supports the idea that her powers prevent deep probes right? That's not the same as a psi-bolt which is something I know I've said already. Heck, that's not even an offensive use of psychic powers. Storm having a defense against one use of psychic powers does not give her unquestionable defense against all uses of psychic powers. Additionally, the image you posted actually shows that those defenses don't block everything. They don't even block all probes. It's said that "deeper probes" are prevented, not all probes. So even for the uses of psychic abilities that Storm's powers automatically defend against, the defense isn't total.
As for the second scan, I'll say again, it's not said that a psi-bolt is being used against Storm. What I think is more important though is that the reason the psychic attack doesn't work is because Storm's electrical powers are already in use and creating a scrambling field before a psychic attack is attempted. Since she's not going to have that field up before the start of the fight, even if it stopped psi-bolts, it wouldn't be in place before Storm goes down.
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