Storm vs. Poison Ivy [read op]

@malachi_munroe: I'm not seeing what your seeing, she likes the feel of the wind. With Ivy there is a clear stated and shown connection with an actual substantial force

her connection to it prevented her from instantly succumbing to the Rot like every character on DC Earth that wasn't connected to the Green, the Red or in Deadmans case already dead

Storm doesn't have a connection like that.

@dextersinister:

it doesn't say anyhere that she likes the feel of the wind .. it says that she's connected right down to the nerves with the elements .. and since Marvel doesn't doesn't have "substantial force(s)" like DC .. i'll recap what my other post said .."DC has three sources for people with nature based abilities the red=animals, the green= plantlife, the clear=water .. if storm was in DC she'd be connected to all three .. while she may not be able to tap into them as the others the connection is still there" .. and actually storm's connection is from gaea .. which she told Meruda ALL elementals yeild to ..storm is also connected to life as a whole .. not just plants..

@malachi_munroe: I'm surprised this is still being debated lol.

As you mentioned Storm's connection to the ENTIRE PLANET on multiple levels (not just limited to the Green) is well BEYOND Ivy's connection and natural awareness, and that was clear on page 1.

Becoming rotten doesn't help Ivy's case. Her connection is still limited in comparison.

exactly .. she has no connection to the green yet she's able to sense changes in soil .. and if thats not enough the effect the gravity of the moon has on the planet AND knowing when natural occurrences are going to take place i.e telling forge she'd know precisely when the rain would fall .. it isn't stated blatantly in every issue.. its more subtle .. like hints every now and then showing its still there..

@malachi_munroe: and even beyond that she has actually sensed life forces. She has sensed Jean's life force change when she became the Phoenix, sensed that a doppelgänger version of Jean wasn't real, sensed when a tree was dying on the mansion grounds, sensed a planet's life force was corrupted by the Brood, and even sensed a Brood life form growing within her when nine of them knew what happened to them (save for Wolverine).

And there is more but I think it's quite clear that being plant like doesn't really compare to sharing an ecopathic bond with your environment on this level.

@malachi_munroe: on these claims... that someone has already used, which tops storm imo.

Heres just a brief and i do mean brief example also that poison ivy does care about plant life as well, you dont see storm talking to the clouds asking if their feelings hurt when a jet goes through them. Anyway heres the brief scan

I respect your opinion BUT...this doesn't even come close to being a greater connection to nature than Storm's.

And I don't see why caring about plants helps to prove how her connection to nature is greater. Poison Ivy is plantlike, which I get. She communicates and has a special connection to the Green, but is limited to plant life based on what I have seen posted for her so far. That does not encompass even half of what Storm's ecopathic bond includes.

Storm's is bonded with the entire planet on multiple levels (i.e. -sensing what's happening inside the planet, feelings it's pain as her own, sensing life forces (plant and otherwise), etc.). Even in another dimension Storm's bond with her environment allowed her to actually heal the dimension itself. Storm takes this in spades.

@killerwasp: storm talks to plants just as ivy does .. doesn't do it often because most writers turn her into lightning lass .. i don't see how needing the same requirements as a plant would makes her more in tune .. storm bonds with the biosphere wherever she is on a mental, spiritual and physical level .. lets say .. you burn a plant .. sure ivy would be mad, you nuke the earth and storm feels that and goes into shock, another example was sienna blaze .. she was ripping chunks out of the EM field causing storm's body to over heat in the arctic ... which it normally wouldn't and seriously? .. how exactly would she go about talking to non living things? the elements aren't alive .. the plants and animals are ..

@malachi_munroe: the difference is, someone is not just in tune with nature, but has basically went from being a human to almost being a plant themselves, where as the other hasnt. That was the point.

@killerwasp: so in other words, ivy is literally a part of nature .. how does being a part of nature mean more in tune with nature?

@malachi_munroe: seriously? lol Being part of nature itself starting off a nothing but a human, and then within years becoming part of nature, feeling the earth's plants suffer and can be basically killed without being within contact basically by it or watered. That is more in tune than storm and this right here "doesn't do it often because most writers turn her into lightning lass" <-- is just straight up silly, she was a character based on one concept which was being able to create storms, and use lighting and a few other powers. That was it, unlike poison ivy who was literally started off as "saving nature" and having plants be her companions, storm wasn't focused on plants so yes writers have a right to turn her into a "lightning lass".

Another thing "lets say .. you burn a plant .. sure ivy would be mad, you nuke the earth and storm feels that and goes into shock, " <- burning a plant and nuking an area, are two completely different things, btw with people using chemicals on her plants and other stuff, she is still affected by it, and can feel their pain just as bad. As i said, storm can live without being in direct contact with "nature" PV can't..

@killerwasp:

p.s .. i would argue the using chemicals on plants things .. they're alive .. clouds and such aren't :P

@malachi_munroe: lol yeah that is true, them clouds need to start getting emotions like so

we can dream about both of them doing this ^^

@killerwasp: they would make an awesome team imo .. how exactly did ivy get her powers anyway?

I always hate quoting a super old post but this is a great answer and I know JG is still around haha. I'd also like to add that I think Ivy can actually speak to plants while Storm can't communicate with rain.

@malachi_munroe: this basically summons up the story of how

Another view again to back that again Dr. Jason Woodrue turned her into what she is known as of now

Basically it

Storm started off as a goddess of life and a force of nature. Where are you getting that she was created just to use those said powers and not be connected to it in any particular way? Please don't states facts that simply aren't true.

And being unable to live without water or plants doesn't make her more connected with nature, it just simply means that she relies more heavily on nature in order to survive. This doesn't make her anymore connected to nature than a human is. Storm's awareness to nature extends into PV's, and while she may not be able to turn herself into a tree, she can still sense when they're sick, or dying or needs to be fed. Not to mention can converse with them just like PV.

Even in an alternate dimension, her powers had grown to a point where she could accelerate the growth of plant life, and in an alternate future had become ageless and immortal as a being of pure energy. Can the same be said in reverse for PV? I highly doubt it.

Storm is connected with the weather in a way that they are considered one. They don't need to converse because their connection is far more intimate than that. They understand each other and operate on a subconscious/instinctual level.

@storm_calling: OMG ITS YOU!

@malachi_munroe:

@storm_calling: "Storm started off as a goddess of life and a force of nature. Where are you getting that she was created just to use those said powers and not be connected to it in any particular way? Please don't states facts that simply aren't true." <-- Proof of that then? Because last i checked she didnt start off like that...

"And being unable to live without water or plants doesn't make her more connected with nature, it just simply means that she relies more heavily on nature in order to survive. This doesn't make her anymore connected to nature than a human is. Storm's awareness to nature extends into PV's, and while she may not be able to turn herself into a tree, she can still sense when they're sick, or dying or needs to be fed. Not to mention can converse with them just like PV." <-- doesn't make her more in tune? Yes, she spends almost all of her time with her plant life, fighting for plant life, living with plant life, and other things. She's even tried to create her own place and it still got wrecked because of "humans". She's studied and tried to better plant life ever since she was basically born. Anyway this isn't just about storm connecting to plant life as the person had posted in the op

" Two different characters from two different parts of the environmental spectrum. Feats can be used to showcase the connection each have. This isn't a standard battle, so their will be no fighting between them." In her spectrum compared to storms spectrum. PV is thought to be better, when u have people who know only but little between who does storm reflect more as? talking to plant life or creating storms? ( inside joke but whatever XD ) Their gonna say creating storms not because they don't know anything per say about her, but because of her main powers. Does she still talk to plant life and such yes, but is it her main focus? No..

"Even in an alternate dimension, her powers had grown to a point where she could accelerate the growth of plant life, and in an alternate future had become ageless and immortal as a being of pure energy. Can the same be said in reverse for PV? I highly doubt it." <- powers dont = in tune with nature...

"Storm is connected with the weather in a way that they are considered one. They don't need to converse because their connection is far more intimate than that. They understand each other and operate on a subconscious/instinctual level." <- mhhh connecting with something that isnt alive, same could be said about PV anyway...

@storm_calling

@killerwasp

@malachi_munroe: Like I said I don't see what your seeing from that scan, Storm doesn't have the sort of connection to nature that you describe. Your describing an elemental, Storm isn't one, she spends 99.9% of her time not caring about nature because it's not an important part of your character.

I've shown Ivy actually dying from withdrawal to a connection to nature and being a member of the natural force of nature.

Storms power isn't even connected with nature under most writers, it's psionic in nature, effectively a specialized form of telekinesis, she feels the weather because she picks up on signals like a machine not because of any spiritual connection.

@malachi_munroe: lol maybe, if he can prove this "Storm started off as a goddess of life and a force of nature. Where are you getting that she was created just to use those said powers and not be connected to it in any particular way? Please don't states facts that simply aren't true." <-- Proof of that then? Because last i checked she didnt start off like that..." then ill accept it, but as i said i believe that is from a different story or timeline. Cause if i remember right she was storm's mom was N'Dare and her dad David Munroe. She was human, so her being a goddess might be given as a title not as the actual meaning. Anyway i could be wrong been a while since i've read into her or about her.

The earth is comprised of many features not just plants. Theres the earth its self down to the core the sea, the sky, weather, plant life, sea life, animals. There are many things to be connected to when it comes to the earth. In my opinion Storm is just connected to the earths core its self far more than Ivy is. Storms sense of the earth spans much further than Ivy's does an that's been shown. Ivy's connection is very deep no ones doubting that but in a overall perspective Storms connection is just much deeper in the since that she works hand in hand with the earth its self. Shes stated many times that she can not just simple overrun the weather an the earth but she must work with it.

An Storm did not start off as someone who just created Storms she started off as someone who was already one with nature being young she did not know about her powers fully but she knew nature. An as she grew in age so did her connection with the earth as a whole. An both characters have many concepts to them when it comes to their powers an its connection to the earth but Storms are just much deeper.

This Scan I Think Just Seals The Deal

i strongly believe Charles limited her power growth .. her powers aren't even supposed to be limited to weather manipulation .. i'm waiting patiently for her to fling antimatter bursts, gain pyrokinesis(by doing like Jean and her oxygen molecules thingy), photokinesis since light is EM radiation, break down things to atoms and even one day .. rearrange matter and make it rain diamonds or turn tequila into diamonds(recent experiment scientist did)and a whole lot more .. her conncetion to life hasn't really ever been explained if i recall correctly either .. its just .. there.. and i don't think she has to pay attention to nature that much .. after talking to kurt about how she "knows" the planet and even the pull of the moon's gravity .. she filters out those bastards .. without going nuts

@dextersinister actually yes .. Storm and polaris have been called elementals when they fought atop a building and storm was called an elemental in the danger room with logan (back when they had those narrative bubble things you know?)

@magnificentstorm: is this a dream .. i'm actually talking to you O_o PARTAYYYYYYYYYYYY!

lol Im always up for a party :D

@magnificentstorm:

@malachi_munroe:

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAW YEA u know how to party :D

:) An i really like this thread its something different an it has Storm i mean that a automatic like. But I give probs to the creata of this thread

@magnificentstorm: yep .. its not a horrible spite thread .. quite educational :3

@magnificentstorm: "The earth is comprised of many features not just plants. Theres the earth its self down to the core the sea, the sky, weather, plant life, sea life, animals. There are many things to be connected to when it comes to the earth. In my opinion Storm is just connected to the earths core its self far more than Ivy is. Storms sense of the earth spans much further than Ivy's does an that's been shown. Ivy's connection is very deep no ones doubting that but in a overall perspective Storms connection is just much deeper in the since that she works hand in hand with the earth its self. <--- agreed

Shes stated many times that she can not just simple overrun the weather an the earth but she must work with it." <--- Doesn't that put her in the same position as Ivy, just different purposes?

This Scan I Think Just Seals The Deal <--- mhhh maybe or maybe not

Pretty self explanatory, as i said, she cares and has a deep connection to the earth. I'm doubting storm, but i do believe PV is more in tune. As i've said, earth may affect her, but poison ivy unlike storm makes it her main focus on life about 99% of the time, If it does, she dies. Anyway, we all got opinions and you proved my point, i got what i wanted to say in here so i could settle with storm being more in tuned with nature the PV.

" I'm doubting storm, but i do believe PV is more in tune." ---> im not doubting storm is what i ment to say

"it 99% of the time, If it does," <--- dies not does*

to the bold .. she lies to herself and others about that all the damn time :/ first she says she's bound by nature, then she goes off creating jovian pressure fields and unnaturally large and powerful wind tunnels she knows will have repercussions around the world ... and then they don't even remember it ..

@malachi_munroe: True, but in the end what does she usually do?

@killerwasp: how i miss when she used to wear nothing but vines and leaves :/

@malachi_munroe: I know where your coming from but shes only bound by whats in her area. If there isnt any water then she cant make rain things like that. Yes shes proven to be able to create things on earth that would never happen. Its not that she cant its just that she has to have the resources to do so. In X-treme X-men she stated she couldn't do much with the oxygen because there wasnt much in a base they were in.

But yea they did make things confusing.

@killerwasp: I'm confused did i win?

@malachi_munroe: honestly i can dig either of them. Unlike some of the other different looking heroes and villains for both dc and marvel. I think they took a more improved look, however they should of had a more viney look on her as well idk like took this here

and applied it to this i mean they kinda did, but you know have leafs and stuff hanging and vines wrapped around her body.

@magnificentstorm: idk did you? XD

confusing as hell .. but honestly .. the X-treme X-men thing about working with them at hand i was like ... no... she need only take kinetic energy from somewhere else and behold the wind (because you know .. energy manipulation is her true power anyway) .. and i think by now she could at least generate her own water by using hydrogen and oxygen molecules and i think in regards to water/moisture .. only bobby has that limit .. such .. anger!

@killerwasp i say we maker her nude with plant tattoos covering her goddies!

@malachi_munroe: I say we just make her nude with no lower goodies but just top goodies HUEUHEUHEUE XD

@malachi_munroe: lol XD

@killerwasp: so much win!

@storm_calling: thank you and well said. I think it's obvious that Storm's bond with nature is at a level Ivy isn't touching.

I think that just because Ivy has a physical connection to plant life, essentially being one on fundamental levels, people assume that = a deep connection to nature, which it really doesn't. I'm Glad you noted the similar dependence that humans have on this comparison, since I was thinking that last night when I read some of the posts, and because it illustrates that her physiological needs doesn't really support the argument of a greater connection.

And "nature" doesn't need be sentient in order to be nature or be more natural. Plants being alive doesn't make them any more natural than water vapor, air molecules, or soil. It's all part of the natural make up of the planet, with the major differences here being that Storm is deeply connected all of these natural forces and more vs Ivy being deeply connected but limited to just one.

Ignore this post.

@storm_calling: lol little late on the post?

@killerwasp: i wonder if storm means she'll lose her sanity or something (and someone has the x-ladies set for space travel :/ .. )

@malachi_munroe: She just mite lose her mind, but idk i havent read storm in a while so, from what he's showing shes prolly will and of course suffer from that as well.