LOL.If this is a swimsuit competition WE WIN!
Storm vs Ms Marvel
This topic is locked from further discussion.
@pooty said:
@butterflykyss: In the past week you have admitted that Storm loses to Photon and Ms. Marvel. I'm starting to question your dedication the the Raindrop Association or Coalition... whatever you call it. LOL
***thunder rumbling***
BLASPHEMER!!! It is the United Raindrops Association for STORM and NEVER assert that I am not dedicated to theONETRUEALMIGHTYGODDESS!!! Additionally, a true raindrop is aware that the Almighty Goddess has not yet ascended into her true form. Until that day, there will be many battles won and a few lost.
Another friendly message brought to you by the UNITED RAINDROP ASSOCIATION FOR STORM!!!!
@Jetshade said:
@butterflykyss said:Right on. :)hmmmm honestly storm is outclassed here even if you take out speedblitz.
:)
-I've given actual instances in actual books, and you quote Ms. marvel's speed which is basic information you can get from a wiki which it really seems you did. The conversation was actually about speed as far as i know, not agility or reflexes. Storm's powers work at the speed of thought, Ms. Marvel can not react faster than storm could use her powers and shut her down. And if you actually read what i wrote which it clearly seems you didn't i never stated i won any argument. When you say things like "wind don't effect speed," that makes your argument sound more like nonsense. Storm has been shown to create her own jetstreams and wind vortex's to increase/decrease her own flight speed, and amp speed/deceleration of aircrafts, such as the blackbird, Brand's speeding spacecraft with entry speeds, and the aircraft used in Worlds apart. That more example to show consistency in this fight. I've given several actual reference of her using her powers with speed and affecting speed. This is a comic book debate, physics goes out of the window unless it's comic book physics, which is some off the wall science reference from the actual comic. But even real life physic would apply wind as a factor for affecting speed so again your argument does not make sense at all.@Godabed: You've refuted nothing I've said, have done nothing to prove that Storm actually possesses inherent superhuman speed, agility, or reflexes, and you say you've won the argument? Whatever. Dismiss physics and real-life facts all you want, wind cannot move faster than the speed of sound no matter how it's being manipulated. On top of that, Storm can't generate any super-speed on her own. Whether this contest is on the ground or in the air, Ms Marvel is far faster, period. Ms Marvel also has superhuman agility (Storm does not), superhuman reflexes (Storm does not), and superhuman invulnerability (Storm does not). That, and her superhuman strength, give her all the advantages she needs. You have also not given any reason why Storm wins this fight -- just that she can fly faster than some people think. So who is the one without an argument?
Go ahead, give us a plausible explanation why Storm would win here. You'll note that no one has really agreed with you so far.
-As far as affecting invulnerability, there are various levels of invulnerability where people can be hurt even killed (thor is a good example of that), Ms. Marvel does not have the same level of invulnerability as 100 tonners like her teammate say WonderMan who beat the tar out of her in New Avengers. Ms. Marvel herself can't even lift over 100 tons. Storm has on panel lifted over 300 tons using wind, lifting buildings and mountains. Ms. Marvel is physically stronger, but Storm's wind is stronger than Ms. Marvel, that's just a fact. Storm's wind abilities are so that she could even shatter the invulnerable Emma Frost in Diamond form with straw just using wind. This happened in X-treme X-men i can't recall the exact issue but storm was looking for a mutant murder at the school. Anyway... your passive dismissal of Storm's wind power which Ms. Marvel is not immune to in anyway is a clear sign that you haven't done your research. More than any other ability in her power set Storm uses Wind the most and she can do so on a sub-atomic and atomic level.
-She can easily produce enough force manipulating pressure fields/wind to Hurt/disorient Ms. Marvel. Strenght also isn't as big of an issue as you think it is, given again the history of the characters who actual know each other pretty well because Ms. Marvel joined the x-men briefly, and storm having had several encounter with Rogue, with Ms. Marvel powers. It's highly doubtful storm wouldn't use Ms. Marvel's strength to her advantage or keep her at distance But eitherway Storm just has more fighting experience, taking on expert martial artist and being able to contend with them or win against them. NightShade, BlackPanther, Sunfire, Callisto, Crimson Commando, Dora Milaje, Khan and Viper, so it's highly doubtful just given the showings of Ms. Marvel that she would be able to beat Storm in h2h even if she was able to get close enough to actually punch her.
-As far as being popular in any forum, that's never my goal, but basing information on actual comicbook facts is. As you haven't actually stated anything but general Ms. Marvel power facts, and nonsense about a speedblitz, which is complete CIS for her character. She does move faster than Storm's psionic ability to manipulate her powers. Also i would stay away from the official books because even though they give a good deal of basic knowledge they don't seem to actually factor in a good deal of the comicbook feats or simply leave information out.
@THUNDERBOLT30: I believe it said Rogue was going top speed, it's clear from Rogue's showings that she can definitely move at mach speeds, since it was stated that she had all Ms. Marvels speed, strength and durability there is no reason to believe that she would have less than Mach 3 speed. Just as Ms. Marvel had when she regain her powers, she never received any boost to speed, neither did Rogue. Rogue has been shown to have entry level speed after Ms. Marvel as Binary hit her into Orbit, in uncanny 171, and out flying a the Blackbird in Gambit annual, out flying UN jetfighter, and National guard jets and out maneuvering them. But even recalling any of Rogue's attempt to Blitz, it wasn't any faster than what she did to the planes, not with thor, juggs, magneto etc. But even if she was moving Mach 1 it would still prove the point that Dare Devil is not faster than storm. Also you are right that Storm's actual max speed is unknown. So we agree.
just a point of reference: subsonic is less than 250mph( less than Mach), transonic greater than 250mph less than 750 (Mach 1), supersonic greater than 750mph less than 1500mph (Mach 2 is 1400mph)
Ms.Marvel due to being better...in like every category
@Jetshade said:Rouge was faster than Storm.-I've given actual instances in actual books, and you quote Ms. marvel's speed which is basic information you can get from a wiki which it really seems you did. The conversation was actually about speed as far as i know, not agility or reflexes. Storm's powers work at the speed of thought, Ms. Marvel can not react faster than storm could use her powers and shut her down. And if you actually read what i wrote which it clearly seems you didn't i never stated i won any argument. When you say things like "wind don't effect speed," that makes your argument sound more like nonsense. Storm has been shown to create her own jetstreams and wind vortex's to increase/decrease her own flight speed, and amp speed/deceleration of aircrafts, such as the blackbird, Brand's speeding spacecraft with entry speeds, and the aircraft used in Worlds apart. That more example to show consistency in this fight. I've given several actual reference of her using her powers with speed and affecting speed. This is a comic book debate, physics goes out of the window unless it's comic book physics, which is some off the wall science reference from the actual comic. But even real life physic would apply wind as a factor for affecting speed so again your argument does not make sense at all.@Godabed: You've refuted nothing I've said, have done nothing to prove that Storm actually possesses inherent superhuman speed, agility, or reflexes, and you say you've won the argument? Whatever. Dismiss physics and real-life facts all you want, wind cannot move faster than the speed of sound no matter how it's being manipulated. On top of that, Storm can't generate any super-speed on her own. Whether this contest is on the ground or in the air, Ms Marvel is far faster, period. Ms Marvel also has superhuman agility (Storm does not), superhuman reflexes (Storm does not), and superhuman invulnerability (Storm does not). That, and her superhuman strength, give her all the advantages she needs. You have also not given any reason why Storm wins this fight -- just that she can fly faster than some people think. So who is the one without an argument?
Go ahead, give us a plausible explanation why Storm would win here. You'll note that no one has really agreed with you so far.
-As far as affecting invulnerability, there are various levels of invulnerability where people can be hurt even killed (thor is a good example of that), Ms. Marvel does not have the same level of invulnerability as 100 tonners like her teammate say WonderMan who beat the tar out of her in New Avengers. Ms. Marvel herself can't even lift over 100 tons. Storm has on panel lifted over 300 tons using wind, lifting buildings and mountains. Ms. Marvel is physically stronger, but Storm's wind is stronger than Ms. Marvel, that's just a fact. Storm's wind abilities are so that she could even shatter the invulnerable Emma Frost in Diamond form with straw just using wind. This happened in X-treme X-men i can't recall the exact issue but storm was looking for a mutant murder at the school. Anyway... your passive dismissal of Storm's wind power which Ms. Marvel is not immune to in anyway is a clear sign that you haven't done your research. More than any other ability in her power set Storm uses Wind the most and she can do so on a sub-atomic and atomic level.
-She can easily produce enough force manipulating pressure fields/wind to Hurt/disorient Ms. Marvel. Strenght also isn't as big of an issue as you think it is, given again the history of the characters who actual know each other pretty well because Ms. Marvel joined the x-men briefly, and storm having had several encounter with Rogue, with Ms. Marvel powers. It's highly doubtful storm wouldn't use Ms. Marvel's strength to her advantage or keep her at distance But eitherway Storm just has more fighting experience, taking on expert martial artist and being able to contend with them or win against them. NightShade, BlackPanther, Sunfire, Callisto, Crimson Commando, Dora Milaje, Khan and Viper, so it's highly doubtful just given the showings of Ms. Marvel that she would be able to beat Storm in h2h even if she was able to get close enough to actually punch her.
-As far as being popular in any forum, that's never my goal, but basing information on actual comicbook facts is. As you haven't actually stated anything but general Ms. Marvel power facts, and nonsense about a speedblitz, which is complete CIS for her character. She does move faster than Storm's psionic ability to manipulate her powers. Also i would stay away from the official books because even though they give a good deal of basic knowledge they don't seem to actually factor in a good deal of the comicbook feats or simply leave information out.
@THUNDERBOLT30: I believe it said Rogue was going top speed, it's clear from Rogue's showings that she can definitely move at mach speeds, since it was stated that she had all Ms. Marvels speed, strength and durability there is no reason to believe that she would have less than Mach 3 speed. Just as Ms. Marvel had when she regain her powers, she never received any boost to speed, neither did Rogue. Rogue has been shown to have entry level speed after Ms. Marvel as Binary hit her into Orbit, in uncanny 171, and out flying a the Blackbird in Gambit annual, out flying UN jetfighter, and National guard jets and out maneuvering them. But even recalling any of Rogue's attempt to Blitz, it wasn't any faster than what she did to the planes, not with thor, juggs, magneto etc. But even if she was moving Mach 1 it would still prove the point that Dare Devil is not faster than storm. Also you are right that Storm's actual max speed is unknown. So we agree.just a point of reference: subsonic is less than 250mph( less than Mach), transonic greater than 250mph less than 750 (Mach 1), supersonic greater than 750mph less than 1500mph (Mach 2 is 1400mph)
@Vance Astro: yes and according to you so is Daredevil. Nice argument.Wasn't talking about in flight, so actually he is..that's not according to me.That's a fact.
going for carol on this one.
Actually they aren't she just got the same level rating for speed as he did but she's been stated to have the speed and reflexes of a normal woman her age that regularly works out.@Vance Astro: Both DD and Storm are stated to be at peak human speeds, which various. So unless you have racing on foot, it's all your opinion. but being that Storm can actually increase her speed with her powers, even running DD is probably not faster than her.
So again you have no proof that DD is faster than Storm, but there is actual comic book evidence to show that Storm can out pace Rogue.
@Vance Astro: exactly what is a regular woman's speed? and what exactly is dare devil's max land speed, he's just a regular man. and before you say something like he's trained xyz, so has storm. So training really has nothing to do with it. And although storm has been listed to have Human durability, she somehow manages to survive instance that normal women would be killed like say for instance having colossus threw at them with the force of a tornado, or slam into several object by moving at top flight speeds or being hit by and Optic blast and falling several feat to the ground with no real injuries but a headache. None of this is actually factored into her durability at all but the same could also be said for her reaction times and speed, that she has had faster reactions shown in her fights with people such as Black Panther (with heart shaped leaf powers), Crimson Commando, Marrow (whom beat down Wolverine, before storm ripped her out in a 1 on 1 fight), and Callisto (three times) who have have either enhanced or Peak physical speed and reaction. Again this stuff is not considered in the handbooks but should be. So again you have no proof that DD is faster than Storm, but there is actual comic book evidence to show that Storm can out pace Rogue.I wasn't going to say anything about training.Daredevil's speed is ACTUALLY peak human.Storm's isn't.I'm not understanding what you don't get.Black Panther,Crimson Commando,Marrow and Callisto are ALL faster than Storm.Storm when not flying is no faster than any other regular woman in comics.This isn't something that needs to be proven.It's common knowledge.
"Black Panther,Crimson Commando,Marrow and Callisto are all faster than storm" But she has shown on panel to be faster in speed an agility to beat every single one of the people listed. With the exception of BP whom she actually used her powers to beat, the rest of them she beat in straight Melee combat with no Jobbing at all. With Three wins over Callisto alone it puts her speed equal/ or above that of an enhanced person with speed and agility, Same could be said for CC who is peak Human, and Marrow who has enhanced agility. All these instances are canon and consistent with the character. So really it's your common knowledge vs. Actual comic book showings.
Never said that.I wasn't going to say anything about training because it's irrelevant. It doesn't matter why he has peak human abilities. All that matters is he does and Storm doesn't.You can't gauge speed by combat with other characters..Black Panther,Crimson Commando,Marrow,and Callisto are FACTUALLY faster than Storm, there's nothing to argue about.@Vance Astro: DD powers does not give him peak human abilities it's his training. I hope you are not saying that his powerset is such that he is at the height of human capability. If that's the case the Hawkeye and Mockingbird, But then again so is Storm who has been training since she joined the X-men. You have no real case for this matter, and stating it to be simply common knowledge doesn't prove what you are saying to be true. No one is disputing that Daredevil is fast, but to say he is faster than another person who is also the same status as him is a little ridiculous. "Black Panther,Crimson Commando,Marrow and Callisto are all faster than storm" But she has shown on panel to be faster in speed an agility to beat every single one of the people listed. With the exception of BP whom she actually used her powers to beat, the rest of them she beat in straight Melee combat with no Jobbing at all. With Three wins over Callisto alone it puts her speed equal/ or above that of an enhanced person with speed and agility, Same could be said for CC who is peak Human, and Marrow who has enhanced agility. All these instances are canon and consistent with the character. So really it's your common knowledge vs. Actual comic book showings.
Combat speed isn't a way to gauge speed, really? Especially combat that is life or death, which was the case for CC (storm which i might add was infact depowered) still faster than CC, Callisto (stabbed in the heart, storm thought she killed her for leadership of the Morlocks) and Marrow (ripped out her heart in melee combat while someone was trying to mentally manipulate her? Yet she was able to contend with Marrow who is more agile than her because according to you Storm is an "normal" woman).
It's clear you're not really basing this argument on anything more than your opinion. But your opinion does not make it fact or true.
And with that i'm done with this DD talk, you are going to continue to believe him faster and there is really no point in further conversation.
@Vance Astro: okay stating that how someone obtain their so called peak speed, as irrelevant defeats your argument entirely. Because DD speed does boil down to his training and nothing more. He's not simply fast because he wills himself to be or some other worldly power, he had to work for it. And you stating that he's simply faster than storm because you believe him to be still doesn't negate her showings. Combat speed isn't a way to gauge speed, really? Especially combat that is life or death, which was the case for CC (storm which i might add was infact depowered) still faster than CC, Callisto (stabbed in the heart, storm thought she killed her for leadership of the Morlocks) and Marrow (ripped out her heart in melee combat while someone was trying to mentally manipulate her? Yet she was able to contend with Marrow who is more agile than her because according to you Storm is an "normal" woman). It's clear you're not really basing this argument on anything more than your opinion. But your opinion does not make it fact or true. And with that i'm done with this DD talk, you are going to continue to believe him faster and there is really no point in further conversation.1.How they obtained their speed has nothing to do with what i'm saying.Peak human>>>not peak human.It's simple.
2.I'm not saying that he's faster than her because "I believe him to be" he is.
3.I didn't say that "combat speed" isn't a way to gauge speed. I said that COMBAT isn't the way to gauge speed. She's not Wonder Woman or Superman or someone who fights at high speeds.You're taking the fact that she has showing against characters that are supposed to be peak human to mean that she is on that level.Daredevil has been able to attack in a way that Spider-Man wasn't fast enough to counter his attack..everyone knows Spider-Man is WAAAY faster than Daredevil (Superhuman>Peak human),so just because he was able to do that doesn't mean I should assume that he's on Spider-Man's level because that would be inconsistent with Spider-Man's showings. Just like anything you're suggesting for Storm as far as her reaction and speed in comparison to what those characters have done would be inconsistent with their showings.Unless there is something STATED on panel that suggests that Storm's speed is impressive in relation to those characters, they don't prove she's peak human.
4.If you're done with the DD talk, that's fine..it's off-topic anyway.You brought it back up...
@Godabed said:Who went off topic? page 29?@Jetshade: Rogue with Ms. Marvel's powers is not faster than Storm. There is no reason to think that Ms. Marvel would be faster than storm. Because they have the exact same speed. Only as Binary did Ms. Marvel show FTL speeds, but she was downgraded back to she got back her Ms. marvel powers. And as far as i'm aware only her Strength has increase recently and not her speed.Daredevil is faster than Storm..what are you talking about?
I lack the time to respond in full to everything you just wrote, but much of your argument seems to hinge on Rogue's old powers as an example of Ms Marvel's power level. I addressed this in a previous post, but perhaps you missed it: Th at is an obsolete comparison. The current Ms Marvel is far more powerful than the one that was absorbed by Rogue back in the 1980's. Rogue never had the power to project and absorb all types of energy, and she was slower (Mach-1) and weaker (could lift 50 tons). The current Ms Marvel is more than three times faster and over 50 percent stronger, and those are just her base numbers -- she can increase them if she absorbs additional energy. Not to mention that she can now fire photon blasts and absorb and utilize the energy of a nuclear explosion.
You cite that Storm can act more quickly than Ms Marvel since her powers work with the speed of thought. But thinking and physical manifestation of the weather are two different things. Ms Marvel powers (such as photon blasts) work with the speed of thought too, and are far faster than any wind current. The only power that Storm has that can match that speed would be lightning strikes, but those would be a mistake. Ms Marvel can absorb that energy and use it to increase her power level.
You also cite Storm being familiar with Ms Marvel's powers due to Carol having once been with the X-Men. For one thing, Carol did not have any powers when she was with the X-Men because they had been stolen by Rogue. For another, why can't this knowledge work the same in reverse? Shouldn't Carol also be just as familiar with Storm's powers? The advantage is negated by mutual knowledge.
I do not deny Storm's power level. I think she's very powerful and yes I've read the comics too including many of the examples you listed. However, I just don't think she matches up well with a character that possesses great superhuman strength, speed, agility, reflexes, invulnerability, flight, photon blasts, and the ability to absorb practically any type of energy. This just isn't a good matchup for Storm and I think she loses this fight most of the time. I don't see that you've convinced anyone otherwise.
I didn't go off-topic.I was using Daredevil as a measuring stick for Storm's lack of speed.That's not off-topic..it directly relates to a characteristic of one of the characters in question.@Vance Astro said:
Daredevil is faster than Storm..what are you talking about?Who went off topic? page 29?
@Godabed said:
I know what I said and I'm not blaming you for anything.Simply pointing out a fact.You brought Daredevil BACK into the conversation when I said Rouge was faster than Storm.You said .....@Vance Astro: right now you're blaming me for mentioning DD, okay ... You should check the thread and your statements.
@Godabed
said:@Vance Astro: yes and according to you so is Daredevil. Nice argument. Is there any actual reference or instance that you have that actually proves that?
@The Dark Huntress said:
@davdjams said:
mz marvel gets fried to a crispy level lolWhat are you even talking about? You're aware that Ms. Marvel far surpasses Storm in the speed department and in addition has a quite large level of durability, right?
Not to mention Ms. Marvel absorbs ambient energy. Lightning should only fuel her all the more.
@Super_SoldierXII said:
@The Dark Huntress said:
@davdjams said:
mz marvel gets fried to a crispy level lolWhat are you even talking about? You're aware that Ms. Marvel far surpasses Storm in the speed department and in addition has a quite large level of durability, right?
Not to mention Ms. Marvel absorbs ambient energy. Lightning should only fuel her all the more.
Grrr, can't believe I forgot to mention that. Thank you :)
even if i AM a little biased, i say storm takes it. by means of stopping her from breathing, for she can control the air in her very lungs. yeah storm could get speed blitzed, but who's to say that storm couldn't evade her long enough to create a snow storm that would totally blind her. can't attack something u can't see. and everyones like "speed blitz speed blitz", storm is not a slow flyer by any means (albeit DEFINITELY slower than ms.marvel). but hey whip up a couple hurricanes, forcing ms marvel to fly up wind. throw a couple barns/cows/cars/other debris in her way and storm could camp in a nearby cloud. DEATH BY OXYGEN REMOVAL!
even if i AM a little biased, i say storm takes it. by means of stopping her from breathing, for she can control the air in her very lungs. yeah storm could get speed blitzed, but who's to say that storm couldn't evade her long enough to create a snow storm that would totally blind her. can't attack something u can't see. and everyones like "speed blitz speed blitz", storm is not a slow flyer by any means (albeit DEFINITELY slower than ms.marvel). but hey whip up a couple hurricanes, forcing ms marvel to fly up wind. throw a couple barns/cows/cars/other debris in her way and storm could camp in a nearby cloud. DEATH BY OXYGEN REMOVAL!The OP doesn't say that morals are off so we are to assume they aren't...Storm isn't going to kill Ms.Marvel.
Ms. Marvel. Seriously.
BB
@The Dark Huntress said:
@Super_SoldierXII said:
@The Dark Huntress said:
@davdjams said:
mz marvel gets fried to a crispy level lolWhat are you even talking about? You're aware that Ms. Marvel far surpasses Storm in the speed department and in addition has a quite large level of durability, right?
Not to mention Ms. Marvel absorbs ambient energy. Lightning should only fuel her all the more.
Grrr, can't believe I forgot to mention that. Thank you :)
My pleasure :)
Is still going on ? Ms Marvel win's already FFS and this is coming from a Storm fan.
@Jetshade said:
@Godabed: First off, I want to apologize for the condescending tone of my initial post. I've dealt with enough Storm fanatics on these boards who insist that Storm can beat the likes of Dr Manhattan, Galactus, etc, that I've grown both weary and wary of them. If Storm can really beat anybody then why is she not undefeated in comics. She loses fights nearly as often as she wins and I hope you are reasonable enough to acknowledge this. I lack the time to respond in full to everything you just wrote, but much of your argument seems to hinge on Rogue's old powers as an example of Ms Marvel's power level. I addressed this in a previous post, but perhaps you missed it: Th at is an obsolete comparison. The current Ms Marvel is far more powerful than the one that was absorbed by Rogue back in the 1980's. Rogue never had the power to project and absorb all types of energy, and she was slower (Mach-1) and weaker (could lift 50 tons). The current Ms Marvel is more than three times faster and over 50 percent stronger, and those are just her base numbers -- she can increase them if she absorbs additional energy. Not to mention that she can now fire photon blasts and absorb and utilize the energy of a nuclear explosion. You cite that Storm can act more quickly than Ms Marvel since her powers work with the speed of thought. But thinking and physical manifestation of the weather are two different things. Ms Marvel powers (such as photon blasts) work with the speed of thought too, and are far faster than any wind current. The only power that Storm has that can match that speed would be lightning strikes, but those would be a mistake. Ms Marvel can absorb that energy and use it to increase her power level. You also cite Storm being familiar with Ms Marvel's powers due to Carol having once been with the X-Men. For one thing, Carol did not have any powers when she was with the X-Men because they had been stolen by Rogue. For another, why can't this knowledge work the same in reverse? Shouldn't Carol also be just as familiar with Storm's powers? The advantage is negated by mutual knowledge. I do not deny Storm's power level. I think she's very powerful and yes I've read the comics too including many of the examples you listed. However, I just don't think she matches up well with a character that possesses great superhuman strength, speed, agility, reflexes, invulnerability, flight, photon blasts, and the ability to absorb practically any type of energy. This just isn't a good matchup for Storm and I think she loses this fight most of the time. I don't see that you've convinced anyone otherwise.
Sorry for the delay in response.
Rogue, it was stated that Ms. Marvel's strength had increase to the point where now she was over her 50 ton limit and getting stronger, i believe by Hank Pym but i don't remember. Nothing as i stated before was mentioned or shows she actually has an increase of speed as well as strength. But if her speed relied on her strength then you could say it actually increased, but it doesn't. So again stating that Rogue was Ms. Marvel with at a weaker/earlier point isn't really true in regards to speed, strength yes, speed no. Also when her increase in strength was mention her durability also had not change in any noticeable way either. Considering in the Dark Avenger/Dark Reign saga she was killed then came back to life, only realizing she had gotten stronger at the end of the Fight with Moonstone. Also i believe Ms. Marvel and Rogue fought several times, with no clear winner from all of their encounters.
Storm reaction, Storm powers and use of her powers are instant, which mean the moment she think it, it happens, they has been shown to be true on countless panels, and stating several times over the years. The statement about thinking and physical manifestation is implying that there is some kind of delay when there hasn't been shown to be any. Now there are times when storm has to concentrate to pull off bigger feats, like in Worlds Apart where she struck down the BlackBird moving at top speeds in San Francisco from Wankanda. But once she was able to locate the plane she struck it down instantly. Or Draining Siena Blaze of her powers while manipulating a blizzard for cover, creating a wind vortex and charging it with energy field to filter out Siena Blaze's powers. Showing of her amazing multitasking ability with a high degree of energy manipulation.
Ms. Marvel, yes can absorb energy, this is very common knowledge, and it can amp her to higher levels of power, and the she can shoot a Photon Blast. But this is not something she does instantly, she actually has to accumulate energy to use it. In the instances I have seen Ms. Marvel do this in the New Avenger or in Civil War, which was with the help of Spiderwoman, the unleashing of the power "seemed" instant after the build up, but without some form of reference of how powerful this photon blast was without energy amping first i couldn't say if it would or wouldn't be effective against storm if she tried to use it at the start of the fight to counter storm's psionic manipulation over the atmosphere. As far as storm's ability to react to the photon blast, there is actually several things she could do to react to it, one is counter it with lighting, or plasma energy, or erect a pressure force field around her, or a field to misdirect it. she could also redirect it with her wind powers as she did with the optic blast. She can also use raw elemental energy, which she has also been shown to use, i'm not really sure which properties that has. But storm "should" also be able to manipulate photon energy, especially if the fight took place in space.
Which brings me to the question, where is this fight talking place?
History, Actually she did have power before she left the x-men, She was binary when she cut ties with the x-men due to Rogue being there. Over the years they have worked together several times. But I didn't say their history couldn't work in reverse, it's possible Carol would try to come up with plan to counter Storm. As to what that plan would be i would leave that for you to argue, but I don't think storm would just use energy non strategically when she knows so much about Carol, and her being able to absorb it. Storm as a fighter is has not shown to be stupid. *edit* i also you should count the times that Carol took over Rogue's body as her old Ms. Marvel persona before she was separated from Rogue.
I don't think i gave an official statement as to where i see this fight going or who won. So let me clear this up, I think Ms. Marvel can and would win some matches if it's 10 out of 10, but i don't think she takes the Majority. I believe Storm would. Also my issue was with your argument was that you reduced the fight to a speedblitz which is highly unlikely but there is no actual evidence given that Ms. Marvel is faster than her. Storm's max speed has reminded undefined. Her feats has shown that even given her handbook rating she can and has been faster than stated, which is also the case for her durability.
You state that again her super strength is a factor, when I've actually given you example that storm wind power is actually physically stronger than anything Ms. Marvel has actually done with her strength, even if she were to amp above her 70 or 80 tons, Storm's winds are still shown to be 3x stronger., As far as her nigh invincibility her level of invincibility isn't so that she couldn't be hurt or injured by someone stronger than her, or just a better fighter, Noh-Varr beat her down in Siege and he can only lift 25 tons. Not to mention the beating she took from moonstone, before she realized she could manipulate the energy from the stones. So her invincibility isn't something that would save her. Speed on paper she's faster, but given the showing in annual, and no recent bump in speed there is no reason to believe a blitz would be something she could pull off successfully. Agility I'll give to Ms. Marvel, Reflexes, physical reflexes yes, Storm is faster with her powers. Photon Blast, at this point unless it's amped doesn't seem like a real factor at all. Storm does have a form of energy resistance. Ms. Marvel clearly can absorb energy, and a wide range of it, but Storm can manipulate energy from the EMS or using EMF, and storm's range of control has been shown to be global (on earth), and as precise enough to work on subatomic levels, So i honestly don't think that Ms. Marvel's absorption will beat out Storm's manipulation. If it comes down to that. Ms. Marvel has no real counter for Storm's manipulation of wind power, and the various ways that she can use it to manipulate Ms. Marvel, if Ms. Marvel could absorb kinetic force sebastian shaw or bishop, then there would be no way Storm could win. Finally fighting skills, Tactically Storm is a better fighter than Ms. Marvel, in Actual fighting skills Storm would beat Ms. Marvel as well. Even though Carol has military and shield training, she is always reduced to just brawling fist to fist. Storm has much better showings would fighters who are above her. I just don't think Ms. Marvel would be able to outthink Storm. She's more of a follower and not a leader.
As i stated before, I'm not trying win popular vote, people are free to think what they want.
@Vance Astro: two things,1. Daredevil was not a factor in this fight and shouldn't have been brought into it in the first place, it was clearly off topic. 2. after xtreme x-men it, after the instance in the Savage land storm actually does have a bloodlust state that she can reach in battle so yeah she actually could kill her, this was highlighted in the Arena Saga. Also again brought up when storm went back to the school in New x-men with prodigy, surge dust roster. Wolfbane could sense this bloodlust in Storm when seeing her and automatically reverted to wolf form and ran away. But you are right that this is not something she would just do to Ms. Marvel especially given their history. I would also say the same for Ms. Marvel, i don't think she would kill Storm either.
Ms. Marvel. Seriously.
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@CitizenBane said:
@Vance Astro said:
@Billy Batson said:Ms. Marvel. Seriously.
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This... Storm is overrated IMO.
@Godabed said:
@Jetshade said:-I've given actual instances in actual books, and you quote Ms. marvel's speed which is basic information you can get from a wiki which it really seems you did. The conversation was actually about speed as far as i know, not agility or reflexes. Storm's powers work at the speed of thought, Ms. Marvel can not react faster than storm could use her powers and shut her down. And if you actually read what i wrote which it clearly seems you didn't i never stated i won any argument. When you say things like "wind don't effect speed," that makes your argument sound more like nonsense. Storm has been shown to create her own jetstreams and wind vortex's to increase/decrease her own flight speed, and amp speed/deceleration of aircrafts, such as the blackbird, Brand's speeding spacecraft with entry speeds, and the aircraft used in Worlds apart. That more example to show consistency in this fight. I've given several actual reference of her using her powers with speed and affecting speed. This is a comic book debate, physics goes out of the window unless it's comic book physics, which is some off the wall science reference from the actual comic. But even real life physic would apply wind as a factor for affecting speed so again your argument does not make sense at all.@Godabed: You've refuted nothing I've said, have done nothing to prove that Storm actually possesses inherent superhuman speed, agility, or reflexes, and you say you've won the argument? Whatever. Dismiss physics and real-life facts all you want, wind cannot move faster than the speed of sound no matter how it's being manipulated. On top of that, Storm can't generate any super-speed on her own. Whether this contest is on the ground or in the air, Ms Marvel is far faster, period. Ms Marvel also has superhuman agility (Storm does not), superhuman reflexes (Storm does not), and superhuman invulnerability (Storm does not). That, and her superhuman strength, give her all the advantages she needs. You have also not given any reason why Storm wins this fight -- just that she can fly faster than some people think. So who is the one without an argument?
Go ahead, give us a plausible explanation why Storm would win here. You'll note that no one has really agreed with you so far.
-As far as affecting invulnerability, there are various levels of invulnerability where people can be hurt even killed (thor is a good example of that), Ms. Marvel does not have the same level of invulnerability as 100 tonners like her teammate say WonderMan who beat the tar out of her in New Avengers. Ms. Marvel herself can't even lift over 100 tons. Storm has on panel lifted over 300 tons using wind, lifting buildings and mountains. Ms. Marvel is physically stronger, but Storm's wind is stronger than Ms. Marvel, that's just a fact. Storm's wind abilities are so that she could even shatter the invulnerable Emma Frost in Diamond form with straw just using wind. This happened in X-treme X-men i can't recall the exact issue but storm was looking for a mutant murder at the school. Anyway... your passive dismissal of Storm's wind power which Ms. Marvel is not immune to in anyway is a clear sign that you haven't done your research. More than any other ability in her power set Storm uses Wind the most and she can do so on a sub-atomic and atomic level.
-She can easily produce enough force manipulating pressure fields/wind to Hurt/disorient Ms. Marvel. Strenght also isn't as big of an issue as you think it is, given again the history of the characters who actual know each other pretty well because Ms. Marvel joined the x-men briefly, and storm having had several encounter with Rogue, with Ms. Marvel powers. It's highly doubtful storm wouldn't use Ms. Marvel's strength to her advantage or keep her at distance But eitherway Storm just has more fighting experience, taking on expert martial artist and being able to contend with them or win against them. NightShade, BlackPanther, Sunfire, Callisto, Crimson Commando, Dora Milaje, Khan and Viper, so it's highly doubtful just given the showings of Ms. Marvel that she would be able to beat Storm in h2h even if she was able to get close enough to actually punch her.
-As far as being popular in any forum, that's never my goal, but basing information on actual comicbook facts is. As you haven't actually stated anything but general Ms. Marvel power facts, and nonsense about a speedblitz, which is complete CIS for her character. She does move faster than Storm's psionic ability to manipulate her powers. Also i would stay away from the official books because even though they give a good deal of basic knowledge they don't seem to actually factor in a good deal of the comicbook feats or simply leave information out.
@THUNDERBOLT30: I believe it said Rogue was going top speed, it's clear from Rogue's showings that she can definitely move at mach speeds, since it was stated that she had all Ms. Marvels speed, strength and durability there is no reason to believe that she would have less than Mach 3 speed. Just as Ms. Marvel had when she regain her powers, she never received any boost to speed, neither did Rogue. Rogue has been shown to have entry level speed after Ms. Marvel as Binary hit her into Orbit, in uncanny 171, and out flying a the Blackbird in Gambit annual, out flying UN jetfighter, and National guard jets and out maneuvering them. But even recalling any of Rogue's attempt to Blitz, it wasn't any faster than what she did to the planes, not with thor, juggs, magneto etc. But even if she was moving Mach 1 it would still prove the point that Dare Devil is not faster than storm. Also you are right that Storm's actual max speed is unknown. So we agree.just a point of reference: subsonic is less than 250mph( less than Mach), transonic greater than 250mph less than 750 (Mach 1), supersonic greater than 750mph less than 1500mph (Mach 2 is 1400mph)
Wow! I love your explanations. : )
And just to add, there was an issue when Rogue wasn't able to catch up with Storm because Storm was flying very, very fast. Couldn't find the scans though
@JackRock said:
i think storm win!
You think wrong ^_^
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Ms Marvel and quite easily
@JackRock:
After Ms. Marvel blitzes her?
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Mismatch.
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