@butterflykyss: That wind isn't in Sue's shield, it's below it.
I believe the theory is that while Storm was inside Sue's force field she could still effect the wind outside of it, meaning Sue's field did not negate Storm's connection to the atmosphere, which is always on and automatic. Conversely, it could possibly work the other way around if Storm is outside the field. I haven't seen Sue pitted against an air manipulator in battle to know for sure but that is the thoery that the scan has raised.
Thank you dahling!! Beautifully said :)
Your welcome. Ultimately, no one can prove that Sue's field can negate Storm's connection to the atmosphere and that scan supports this, but this is the only actual occurrence (not like the dream battle between Sue and Crystal). In this story, Storm being able to lower the team with her winds was not at all relevant to the plot, so it's not PIS by any means. Storm could have lowered them all on her own winds whether Sue created a force field or not, and prior to this issue, Storm has not worked with Sue IIRC for her to even know if she could "allow" Storm's powers to go beyond her force field anyway.
Storm's powers are psionic in nature, like Jean & Sersi, but her powers do not work the same as theirs do. With Jean and Sersi for example, their psionic energy (TK/matter manipulation or TP) derives from their bodies and extends to a target, which Sue's field has been able to block. There powers have no pre-existign connection to the atmosphere, which is where their power applications differ from Storm's. Jean couldn't use her TK on Sue before since Sue's field blocked her energy from reaching her.
Storm's psionic connection to the atmosphere is automatic and is always on. She doesn't have to connect her power to the atmosphere since that connection is always on and exists before Sue's force field would go up.
You are seriously reaching now. All of what you said is pure speculation, which is not supported anywhere by the dialogue or scan provided. Nowhere does it suggest that Sue "let" Storm use her power across the field or that she regulated her field so that Storm could do so. And as you should know, comics at this time always went into detail as to what was being shown on the panel as you can see in box in the same panel. Nowhere does it say "SUE IS REGULATING HER FIELD TO ALLOW STORM TO USE HER POWERS TO SLOW THEIR DESCENT." So again you are reaching, and badly might I add. To your next point, Molecule Man and Jean Grey are not Storm, simple as that. So try as you may to justify it, the scan doesn't lie and its the best thing we have to determine how this match would go. I'm sure the Marvel writers and team at the time this was written understood how Storm's power's worked as well as Sue well enough. Sorry..
With Johnny what you said is just a big No. As I stated about Johnny, he needs oxygen to utilize his powers and Storm controls that. Besides, STorm has already faced off against Johnny and he lost badly. So yeah both your arguments have been debunked Sorry :D
It is common sense, and anyone with at least some degree of intelligence can work it out. Give it a shot.
FACT: Sue has contained other people inside her shield. They need oxygen. She has contained novas inside her shield. They need oxygen. Therefore, Sue's shields can allow the flow of oxygen inside them.
FACT: Sue has suffocated people by enclosing their heads inside a shield. The Super-Skrull has a weaker version of her powers and he has also done it. Therefore, Sue's shields can cut off the flow of oxygen inside them.
LOGICAL CONCLUSION: Sue regulates the conditions inside and outside her shield.
No reaching. No speculation. All it takes is an assembly of facts and some basic deduction. I don't see why this is so hard to grasp. If Sue had not allowed Storm to control the air outside the shield, they would have fallen. Obviously, that would have done nothing for the plot. It's as simple as that. Molecule Man controls everything, he controls the air to a degree that is a hundred times superior to Storm's. He's the Molecule Man. And he failed. Jean's power is psionic, just as Storm's is. She failed. Evidently you have no idea how Sue's powers work. Sorry......
You haven't even read FF #600, have you? Current Johnny would solo without breaking a sweat, he has the cosmic control rod and commands the Annihilation Wave. There is nothing Storm can do against them. Both your arguments are garbage. Sorry :D
How about you STOP talking about all these other scenarios and speak to the scan that is shown.
FACT: The scan that I provided does not indicate anywhere that she regulated her field to allow Storm to use her power. That is simple speculation period. Provide me a scan that shows Sue allows oxygen to transverse her field, meaning that her field is semi-porous. Then and maybe then will you have a case. Also, how long have these shields been up when she has contained people. You do realize that at the moment she generates a shield she also entraps air within as well. It would take a considerable amount of time, depending on the size of the shield, to deplete the air inside the shield. Unless you provide me a scan with some sort of dialogue that indicates that she regulates the air through the field, then everything you say on the matter is speculation. Period.
Therefore, it can be concluded that your logical conclusion is based on things that are speculative at best.
Molecule Man: show me a scan that shows him controlling the air on the level of Storm's? True both their powers are psionic, but the scan you are talking about spoke specifically to jean grey telekinesis. So again, it worked against Jean true, but not against Storm. They are different character's so I don't expect it to.
I don't need to read 600 FF, and i think the OP stated somewhere that Johnny doesn't have the cosmic rod. So yea again your speculation has been debunked again.
@butterflykyss: That wind isn't in Sue's shield, it's below it.
I believe the theory is that while Storm was inside Sue's force field she could still effect the wind outside of it, meaning Sue's field did not negate Storm's connection to the atmosphere, which is always on and automatic. Conversely, it could possibly work the other way around if Storm is outside the field. I haven't seen Sue pitted against an air manipulator in battle to know for sure but that is the thoery that the scan has raised.
Thank you dahling!! Beautifully said :)
Your welcome. Ultimately, no one can prove that Sue's field can negate Storm's connection to the atmosphere and that scan supports this, but this is the only actual occurrence (not like the dream battle between Sue and Crystal). In this story, Storm being able to lower the team with her winds was not at all relevant to the plot, so it's not PIS by any means. Storm could have lowered them all on her own winds whether Sue created a force field or not, and prior to this issue, Storm has not worked with Sue IIRC for her to even know if she could "allow" Storm's powers to go beyond her force field anyway.
Storm's powers are psionic in nature, like Jean & Sersi, but her powers do not work the same as theirs do. With Jean and Sersi for example, their psionic energy (TK/matter manipulation or TP) derives from their bodies and extends to a target, which Sue's field has been able to block. There powers have no pre-existign connection to the atmosphere, which is where their power applications differ from Storm's. Jean couldn't use her TK on Sue before since Sue's field blocked her energy from reaching her.
Storm's psionic connection to the atmosphere is automatic and is always on. She doesn't have to connect her power to the atmosphere since that connection is always on and exists before Sue's force field would go up.
Thanks @THUNDERBOLT30 . I hope you don't mind me quoting you, but you explain things so beautifully I couldn't resist!!
You are seriously reaching now. All of what you said is pure speculation, which is not supported anywhere by the dialogue or scan provided. Nowhere does it suggest that Sue "let" Storm use her power across the field or that she regulated her field so that Storm could do so. And as you should know, comics at this time always went into detail as to what was being shown on the panel as you can see in box in the same panel. Nowhere does it say "SUE IS REGULATING HER FIELD TO ALLOW STORM TO USE HER POWERS TO SLOW THEIR DESCENT." So again you are reaching, and badly might I add. To your next point, Molecule Man and Jean Grey are not Storm, simple as that. So try as you may to justify it, the scan doesn't lie and its the best thing we have to determine how this match would go. I'm sure the Marvel writers and team at the time this was written understood how Storm's power's worked as well as Sue well enough. Sorry..
With Johnny what you said is just a big No. As I stated about Johnny, he needs oxygen to utilize his powers and Storm controls that. Besides, STorm has already faced off against Johnny and he lost badly. So yeah both your arguments have been debunked Sorry :D
It is common sense, and anyone with at least some degree of intelligence can work it out. Give it a shot.
FACT: Sue has contained other people inside her shield. They need oxygen. She has contained novas inside her shield. They need oxygen. Therefore, Sue's shields can allow the flow of oxygen inside them.
FACT: Sue has suffocated people by enclosing their heads inside a shield. The Super-Skrull has a weaker version of her powers and he has also done it. Therefore, Sue's shields can cut off the flow of oxygen inside them.
LOGICAL CONCLUSION: Sue regulates the conditions inside and outside her shield.
No reaching. No speculation. All it takes is an assembly of facts and some basic deduction. I don't see why this is so hard to grasp. If Sue had not allowed Storm to control the air outside the shield, they would have fallen. Obviously, that would have done nothing for the plot. It's as simple as that. Molecule Man controls everything, he controls the air to a degree that is a hundred times superior to Storm's. He's the Molecule Man. And he failed. Jean's power is psionic, just as Storm's is. She failed. Evidently you have no idea how Sue's powers work. Sorry......
You haven't even read FF #600, have you? Current Johnny would solo without breaking a sweat, he has the cosmic control rod and commands the Annihilation Wave. There is nothing Storm can do against them. Both your arguments are garbage. Sorry :D
How about you STOP talking about all these other scenarios and speak to the scan that is shown.
FACT: The scan that I provided does not indicate anywhere that she regulated her field to allow Storm to use her power. That is simple speculation period. Provide me a scan that shows Sue allows oxygen to transverse her field, meaning that her field is semi-porous. Then and maybe then will you have a case. Also, how long have these shields been up when she has contained people. You do realize that at the moment she generates a shield she also entraps air within as well. It would take a considerable amount of time, depending on the size of the shield, to deplete the air inside the shield. Unless you provide me a scan with some sort of dialogue that indicates that she regulates the air through the field, then everything you say on the matter is speculation. Period.
Therefore, it can be concluded that your logical conclusion is based on things that are speculative at best.
Molecule Man: show me a scan that shows him controlling the air on the level of Storm's? True both their powers are psionic, but the scan you are talking about spoke specifically to jean grey telekinesis. So again, it worked against Jean true, but not against Storm. They are different character's so I don't expect it to.
I don't need to read 600 FF, and i think the OP stated somewhere that Johnny doesn't have the cosmic rod. So yea again your speculation has been debunked again.
What other scenarios? You mean demonstrations of Sue's powers that are detrimental to the nonsensical theories you keep putting forward?
Sue has maintained shields in space, in the air, in the Negative Zone. It logically follows that she's allowing air inside or the multiple people that she's contained within them wouldn't be able to breath, and the novas wouldn't be able to burn. This requires no mental gymnastics. Do you even understand the difference between speculation and deduction? Evidently not.
Are you seriously disputing that Molecule Man controls air better than Storm does, given that he controls everything better than anyone on the planet? I hope you're just joking and this is not a poorly thought out attempt at trolling. Sue's powers are tailor-made when it comes to psionics.
OP does not state any such thing. The only thing that has been debunked is your regular garbage.
You are seriously reaching now. All of what you said is pure speculation, which is not supported anywhere by the dialogue or scan provided. Nowhere does it suggest that Sue "let" Storm use her power across the field or that she regulated her field so that Storm could do so. And as you should know, comics at this time always went into detail as to what was being shown on the panel as you can see in box in the same panel. Nowhere does it say "SUE IS REGULATING HER FIELD TO ALLOW STORM TO USE HER POWERS TO SLOW THEIR DESCENT." So again you are reaching, and badly might I add. To your next point, Molecule Man and Jean Grey are not Storm, simple as that. So try as you may to justify it, the scan doesn't lie and its the best thing we have to determine how this match would go. I'm sure the Marvel writers and team at the time this was written understood how Storm's power's worked as well as Sue well enough. Sorry..
With Johnny what you said is just a big No. As I stated about Johnny, he needs oxygen to utilize his powers and Storm controls that. Besides, STorm has already faced off against Johnny and he lost badly. So yeah both your arguments have been debunked Sorry :D
It is common sense, and anyone with at least some degree of intelligence can work it out. Give it a shot.
FACT: Sue has contained other people inside her shield. They need oxygen. She has contained novas inside her shield. They need oxygen. Therefore, Sue's shields can allow the flow of oxygen inside them.
FACT: Sue has suffocated people by enclosing their heads inside a shield. The Super-Skrull has a weaker version of her powers and he has also done it. Therefore, Sue's shields can cut off the flow of oxygen inside them.
LOGICAL CONCLUSION: Sue regulates the conditions inside and outside her shield.
No reaching. No speculation. All it takes is an assembly of facts and some basic deduction. I don't see why this is so hard to grasp. If Sue had not allowed Storm to control the air outside the shield, they would have fallen. Obviously, that would have done nothing for the plot. It's as simple as that. Molecule Man controls everything, he controls the air to a degree that is a hundred times superior to Storm's. He's the Molecule Man. And he failed. Jean's power is psionic, just as Storm's is. She failed. Evidently you have no idea how Sue's powers work. Sorry......
You haven't even read FF #600, have you? Current Johnny would solo without breaking a sweat, he has the cosmic control rod and commands the Annihilation Wave. There is nothing Storm can do against them. Both your arguments are garbage. Sorry :D
How about you STOP talking about all these other scenarios and speak to the scan that is shown.
FACT: The scan that I provided does not indicate anywhere that she regulated her field to allow Storm to use her power. That is simple speculation period. Provide me a scan that shows Sue allows oxygen to transverse her field, meaning that her field is semi-porous. Then and maybe then will you have a case. Also, how long have these shields been up when she has contained people. You do realize that at the moment she generates a shield she also entraps air within as well. It would take a considerable amount of time, depending on the size of the shield, to deplete the air inside the shield. Unless you provide me a scan with some sort of dialogue that indicates that she regulates the air through the field, then everything you say on the matter is speculation. Period.
Therefore, it can be concluded that your logical conclusion is based on things that are speculative at best.
Molecule Man: show me a scan that shows him controlling the air on the level of Storm's? True both their powers are psionic, but the scan you are talking about spoke specifically to jean grey telekinesis. So again, it worked against Jean true, but not against Storm. They are different character's so I don't expect it to.
I don't need to read 600 FF, and i think the OP stated somewhere that Johnny doesn't have the cosmic rod. So yea again your speculation has been debunked again.
What other scenarios? You mean demonstrations of Sue's powers that are detrimental to the nonsensical theories you keep putting forward?
Sue has maintained shields in space, in the air, in the Negative Zone. It logically follows that she's allowing air inside or the multiple people that she's contained within them wouldn't be able to breath, and the novas wouldn't be able to burn. This requires no mental gymnastics. Do you even understand the difference between speculation and deduction? Evidently not.
Are you seriously disputing that Molecule Man controls air better than Storm does, given that he controls everything better than anyone on the planet? I hope you're just joking and this is not a poorly thought out attempt at trolling. Sue's powers are tailor-made when it comes to psionics.
OP does not state any such thing. The only thing that has been debunked is your regular garbage.
This is simply quite silly. You have yet to debunk anything that I have asked. Provide me a scan that states that Sue can regulate her shield to allow air to transverse it? You can't and all the insults are not required so save it. If you are going to assert something and you can't back it up, then I see no point in further debating.
Also, the OP has a pic of Johnny WITHOUT the cosmic rod, so it IS stated within the OP. Instead of trying to insult me, which you are poorly doing, why don't you actually pay attention to what is actually stated (whether implicitly or explicitly) so you don't come seem so foolish next time
@butterflykyss: Thanks and I don't mind at all. Sue can regulated her force fields at her choosing to allow air in or she can make it air tight to keep air in, like when she went into space. She can regulate her force field to do that but it's not really relevant here anyway though, since she has no control on what happens to the air directly (i.e. - pressure increase, temperature increase/decrease, it's humidity, etc.).
They have shown her holding air in her shields to keep her alive in outer space and has allowed her to breath when on earth. The fact that you question that either shows your dishonesty or lack of knowledge of the character.
They have shown her holding air in her shields to keep her alive in outer space and has allowed her to breath when on earth. The fact that you question that either shows your dishonesty or lack of knowledge of the character.
1.) If air is not allowed to transverse her shield it would make sense if Sue put up a shield, lets say, right before a space ship she was in exploded, and she was able to sustain herself until someone could rescue her and put her in an environment where there is air to breathe. This does not contradict anything I stated, and in fact supports it as the outside environment is not allowed to transverse her shield.
2.) If she put up a shield on earth or anywhere else where air is available, her shield will retain a certain amount of air within the field before it is completely depleted (ASSUMING THAT AIR DOES NOT TRANSVERSE THE FIELD). If she were able to maintain a shield that was skin tight to her and maintain this field for longer than an hour, lets say, then I could conclude that she allows air to transverse the field. However, I have asked several times for anyone to provide a scan that would suggest that this is true ( a feat where she has held a relatively small shield up for long periods of time that would suggest that air transverses it or a scan that explicitly states this) and no one at this point has done so.
So don't attempt to question my character or my intention as I don't fancy it one bit. I have shown and provided scans that support my claims and people who have chosen to disagree have not.
@butterflykyss: Thanks and I don't mind at all. Sue can regulated her force fields at her choosing to allow air in or she can make it air tight to keep air in, like when she went into space. She can regulate her force field to do that but it's not really relevant here anyway though, since she has no control on what happens to the air directly (i.e. - pressure increase, temperature increase/decrease, it's humidity, etc.).
Ok thanks. Yes I think the point that people are making (who support Sue) in regards to the scan i provided, is that Storm was only able to use her powers outside of the field, while inside, because Sue's field wasn't completely airtight. Whereas, if it were, she wouldn't have been able to. In either case, at least in that scan I posted, it can't be proven that it was airtight or not, and either assertion is speculation. But thank you for providing clarification on this. :D
They have shown her holding air in her shields to keep her alive in outer space and has allowed her to breath when on earth. The fact that you question that either shows your dishonesty or lack of knowledge of the character.
1.) If air is not allowed to transverse her shield it would make sense if put up a shield, lets say right before a space ship she was in exploded, and she was able to sustain herself until someone could rescue her and put her in an environment where there is air to breathe. This does not contradict anything I stated, and in fact supports it as the outside environment is not allowed to transverse her shield.
2.) If she put up a shield on earth or anywhere else where air is available, her shield will retain a certain amount of air within the field before it is completely depleted. If she were able to maintain a shield that was skin tight to her and maintain this field for longer than an hour, lets say, then I could conclude that she allows air to transverse the field. However, I have asked several times for anyone to provide a scan that would suggest that this is true and no one at this point has done so.
So don't attempt to question my character or my intention as I don't fancy it one bit. I have shown and provided scans that support my claims and people who have chosen to disagree have not.
It's doesn't support it because of the times where she had to stay long periods of time invisible and in her shields where she needed to breath new air.
The fact that Storm was allowed to use her powers while inside Sue's Shield also proves that she can control her shields in such a way where she can allow things in and out. The fact she can control it where light can bounce off of it or not also suggests so.
They have shown her holding air in her shields to keep her alive in outer space and has allowed her to breath when on earth. The fact that you question that either shows your dishonesty or lack of knowledge of the character.
1.) If air is not allowed to transverse her shield it would make sense if put up a shield, lets say right before a space ship she was in exploded, and she was able to sustain herself until someone could rescue her and put her in an environment where there is air to breathe. This does not contradict anything I stated, and in fact supports it as the outside environment is not allowed to transverse her shield.
2.) If she put up a shield on earth or anywhere else where air is available, her shield will retain a certain amount of air within the field before it is completely depleted. If she were able to maintain a shield that was skin tight to her and maintain this field for longer than an hour, lets say, then I could conclude that she allows air to transverse the field. However, I have asked several times for anyone to provide a scan that would suggest that this is true and no one at this point has done so.
So don't attempt to question my character or my intention as I don't fancy it one bit. I have shown and provided scans that support my claims and people who have chosen to disagree have not.
It's doesn't support it because of the times where she had to stay long periods of time invisible and in her shields where she needed to breath new air.
The fact that Storm was allowed to use her powers while inside Sue's Shield also proves that she can control her shields in such a way where she can allow things in and out. The fact she can control it where light can bounce off of it or not also suggests so.
scans please??? if you can't do this, then discussion over.
show me in the scan that provided that states sue's field was regulated to allow air to transverse the field, which resulted in storm being able to use her powers. show me in the scan i provided where it states things are allowed to go in and out. light waves and air molecules are two totally different things. the fact that we can inside the see indicates that light waves are allowed through the field, which results in us being able to see them within the field. however, nowhere in the scan can you conclude that the field is airtight or not. to assert either is simply speculation.
If you know the character you know she has spent periods of time in her skin tight invisible shield with no room to store air.
All it takes is common sense.
thnks for proving my point...
Unless you switched sides then I only proved you were wrong. We know she can let air in to breath and block it from getting in out. So if I proved you right then I thank you for switching sides.
So unless you can prove me wrong discussion is over.
and once again, how can Sue not run out of oxygen?
anyway, i really need to sleep. gotta go now. later. : )
The force she uses to generate it in the first place. Besides, attacks far more powerful than anything Storm could cook up in this scenario haven't broken Sue's shields or BFR'd her or anything of that sort.
Storm cannot affect the oxygen inside Sue's shields. Sersi couldn't get past it, Jean Grey couldn't get past it. That is the nature of Sue's shields, and Storm isn't manipulating the air inside unless PIS has been turned on. She's navigated space with her shields, it's simply not on the table.
But she will ran out of oxygen. I think Jean was able to. Crystal was able to.
@butterflykyss: you being a fan of storm i sincerely inquire that you describe how storm's power work exactly... she controls certain molecules correct?
EDIT: would you also be gracious enough to provide scans of storm and Human torch fighting??
You do realize they start 5 miles away. Not sure the range of sue, but Storm and cyke has the advantage, her range is far reaching. And how would Sue attack if she cant see her. Storm shrouds the area with a pea soup fog. Do you have scans of his going supernova in space.. I have never known Johnny's power to work in space before his recent death.
Firstly Storm bringing down rail, hail or fog would mean she is bloodlusted which she is not. And if for this battle you consider her bloodlusted Johnny will go supernova BEFORE she took out all the air, i mean he's gone supernova in matter of a panel in previous encounter and supernova will have a lot larger range than 5 miles.
About Cyclops or Storm doing a lot with their attacks to Sue, she can pretty much block everything they can throw at her with her shileds.
Also:
@CitizenBane said:
What part of "Storm can't affect the air inside Sue's shields" is so hard to understand, when Sersi, Jean Grey and early Molecule Man failed to get through?
This!
@butterflykyss said:
this idea that Storm can't affect the air inside sue shield has already been debunked.... sorry. if storm's power can affect the weather outside of sue's shield while Storm is inside of sue's shield , the opposite obviously is true. it would be silly to suggest that Storm could not considering there are scans from canon that would suggest otherwise:
I dont get this either, just because Storm affected the weather from inside the shield doesnt mean the reverse is true, this is because in this case Storm and Sue are fighting together and hence its sue's force-field for her to control as she sees fit. When she is fighting against Storm, Storm will not have this liberty. Unless you can name a instance where Storm did affect weather INSIDE Sue's shield, it would be quite resonable to assume she cannot provided Jean Grey (i know of that instance), Serisi (dont know that instance but CitizenBane is a very reliable person) and Molecular Man (same as Serisi) failed to do so, this is because specially Molecular Man (any version whatsoever) has a much better control and powers than Storm herself.
Also to note is the fact that Fantastic Four work a lot better in group then how they do individually, they have taken on far greater threat than Storm and Cyclops and always come out victorious.
You are seriously reaching now. All of what you said is pure speculation, which is not supported anywhere by the dialogue or scan provided. Nowhere does it suggest that Sue "let" Storm use her power across the field or that she regulated her field so that Storm could do so. And as you should know, comics at this time always went into detail as to what was being shown on the panel as you can see in box in the same panel. Nowhere does it say "SUE IS REGULATING HER FIELD TO ALLOW STORM TO USE HER POWERS TO SLOW THEIR DESCENT." So again you are reaching, and badly might I add. To your next point, Molecule Man and Jean Grey are not Storm, simple as that. So try as you may to justify it, the scan doesn't lie and its the best thing we have to determine how this match would go. I'm sure the Marvel writers and team at the time this was written understood how Storm's power's worked as well as Sue well enough. Sorry..
With Johnny what you said is just a big No. As I stated about Johnny, he needs oxygen to utilize his powers and Storm controls that. Besides, STorm has already faced off against Johnny and he lost badly. So yeah both your arguments have been debunked Sorry :D
It is common sense, and anyone with at least some degree of intelligence can work it out. Give it a shot.
FACT: Sue has contained other people inside her shield. They need oxygen. She has contained novas inside her shield. They need oxygen. Therefore, Sue's shields can allow the flow of oxygen inside them.
FACT: Sue has suffocated people by enclosing their heads inside a shield. The Super-Skrull has a weaker version of her powers and he has also done it. Therefore, Sue's shields can cut off the flow of oxygen inside them.
LOGICAL CONCLUSION: Sue regulates the conditions inside and outside her shield.
No reaching. No speculation. All it takes is an assembly of facts and some basic deduction. I don't see why this is so hard to grasp. If Sue had not allowed Storm to control the air outside the shield, they would have fallen. Obviously, that would have done nothing for the plot. It's as simple as that. Molecule Man controls everything, he controls the air to a degree that is a hundred times superior to Storm's. He's the Molecule Man. And he failed. Jean's power is psionic, just as Storm's is. She failed. Evidently you have no idea how Sue's powers work. Sorry......
You haven't even read FF #600, have you? Current Johnny would solo without breaking a sweat, he has the cosmic control rod and commands the Annihilation Wave. There is nothing Storm can do against them. Both your arguments are garbage. Sorry :D
How about you STOP talking about all these other scenarios and speak to the scan that is shown.
FACT: The scan that I provided does not indicate anywhere that she regulated her field to allow Storm to use her power. That is simple speculation period. Provide me a scan that shows Sue allows oxygen to transverse her field, meaning that her field is semi-porous. Then and maybe then will you have a case. Also, how long have these shields been up when she has contained people. You do realize that at the moment she generates a shield she also entraps air within as well. It would take a considerable amount of time, depending on the size of the shield, to deplete the air inside the shield. Unless you provide me a scan with some sort of dialogue that indicates that she regulates the air through the field, then everything you say on the matter is speculation. Period.
Therefore, it can be concluded that your logical conclusion is based on things that are speculative at best.
Molecule Man: show me a scan that shows him controlling the air on the level of Storm's? True both their powers are psionic, but the scan you are talking about spoke specifically to jean grey telekinesis. So again, it worked against Jean true, but not against Storm. They are different character's so I don't expect it to.
I don't need to read 600 FF, and i think the OP stated somewhere that Johnny doesn't have the cosmic rod. So yea again your speculation has been debunked again.
What other scenarios? You mean demonstrations of Sue's powers that are detrimental to the nonsensical theories you keep putting forward?
Sue has maintained shields in space, in the air, in the Negative Zone. It logically follows that she's allowing air inside or the multiple people that she's contained within them wouldn't be able to breath, and the novas wouldn't be able to burn. This requires no mental gymnastics. Do you even understand the difference between speculation and deduction? Evidently not.
Are you seriously disputing that Molecule Man controls air better than Storm does, given that he controls everything better than anyone on the planet? I hope you're just joking and this is not a poorly thought out attempt at trolling. Sue's powers are tailor-made when it comes to psionics.
OP does not state any such thing. The only thing that has been debunked is your regular garbage.
This is simply quite silly. You have yet to debunk anything that I have asked. Provide me a scan that states that Sue can regulate her shield to allow air to transverse it? You can't and all the insults are not required so save it. If you are going to assert something and you can't back it up, then I see no point in further debating.
Also, the OP has a pic of Johnny WITHOUT the cosmic rod, so it IS stated within the OP. Instead of trying to insult me, which you are poorly doing, why don't you actually pay attention to what is actually stated (whether implicitly or explicitly) so you don't come seem so foolish next time
Give me a break. You're just throwing logic out the window to support an idiotic argument. If air couldn't transverse Sue's shields she would have died a long time ago, any one with at least half a brain can work that out for themselves. I do not need scans to prove something any fool should know.
OP has a pic of Johnny WITHOUT the cosmic rod, true. But that is because there is no pic of the Four with a rod-wielding Johnny. And the rules clearly state that in the absence of specifications, standard equipment is assumed. It's like saying that the Gorgon doesn't have Grasscutter just because it's not in the OP's pic. Of course, this doesn't matter since the OP has since been edited.
Instead of just spewing nonsensical garbage, how about you come up with an argument that makes even the tiniest bit of sense for once?
and once again, how can Sue not run out of oxygen?
anyway, i really need to sleep. gotta go now. later. : )
The force she uses to generate it in the first place. Besides, attacks far more powerful than anything Storm could cook up in this scenario haven't broken Sue's shields or BFR'd her or anything of that sort.
Storm cannot affect the oxygen inside Sue's shields. Sersi couldn't get past it, Jean Grey couldn't get past it. That is the nature of Sue's shields, and Storm isn't manipulating the air inside unless PIS has been turned on. She's navigated space with her shields, it's simply not on the table.
But she will ran out of oxygen. I think Jean was able to. Crystal was able to.
No Jean could not affect the shield and the thing with Crystal did not happen. Nice try though.
and once again, how can Sue not run out of oxygen?
anyway, i really need to sleep. gotta go now. later. : )
The force she uses to generate it in the first place. Besides, attacks far more powerful than anything Storm could cook up in this scenario haven't broken Sue's shields or BFR'd her or anything of that sort.
Storm cannot affect the oxygen inside Sue's shields. Sersi couldn't get past it, Jean Grey couldn't get past it. That is the nature of Sue's shields, and Storm isn't manipulating the air inside unless PIS has been turned on. She's navigated space with her shields, it's simply not on the table.
But she will ran out of oxygen. I think Jean was able to. Crystal was able to.
No Jean could not affect the shield and the thing with Crystal did not happen. Nice try though.
Jean failed, Sersi failed, Molecule Man failed. Storm follows suit.
Also, if sue's shield is psionic proof; as we've seen with jean grey, wouldnt it negate storms powers.
That is what has been pointed out since this whole thing began. Barring PIS, psionic powers simply do not get through or affect Sue's shields. That has been proven time and time again. Sue's shields have rendered Jean ineffectual at least twice, the first was in Fantastic Four #28 and the second in Fantastic Four #286.
Sue's shields are not resistant to psionic powers. They are IMMUNE. Period.
You are seriously reaching now. All of what you said is pure speculation, which is not supported anywhere by the dialogue or scan provided. Nowhere does it suggest that Sue "let" Storm use her power across the field or that she regulated her field so that Storm could do so. And as you should know, comics at this time always went into detail as to what was being shown on the panel as you can see in box in the same panel. Nowhere does it say "SUE IS REGULATING HER FIELD TO ALLOW STORM TO USE HER POWERS TO SLOW THEIR DESCENT." So again you are reaching, and badly might I add. To your next point, Molecule Man and Jean Grey are not Storm, simple as that. So try as you may to justify it, the scan doesn't lie and its the best thing we have to determine how this match would go. I'm sure the Marvel writers and team at the time this was written understood how Storm's power's worked as well as Sue well enough. Sorry..
With Johnny what you said is just a big No. As I stated about Johnny, he needs oxygen to utilize his powers and Storm controls that. Besides, STorm has already faced off against Johnny and he lost badly. So yeah both your arguments have been debunked Sorry :D
It is common sense, and anyone with at least some degree of intelligence can work it out. Give it a shot.
FACT: Sue has contained other people inside her shield. They need oxygen. She has contained novas inside her shield. They need oxygen. Therefore, Sue's shields can allow the flow of oxygen inside them.
FACT: Sue has suffocated people by enclosing their heads inside a shield. The Super-Skrull has a weaker version of her powers and he has also done it. Therefore, Sue's shields can cut off the flow of oxygen inside them.
LOGICAL CONCLUSION: Sue regulates the conditions inside and outside her shield.
No reaching. No speculation. All it takes is an assembly of facts and some basic deduction. I don't see why this is so hard to grasp. If Sue had not allowed Storm to control the air outside the shield, they would have fallen. Obviously, that would have done nothing for the plot. It's as simple as that. Molecule Man controls everything, he controls the air to a degree that is a hundred times superior to Storm's. He's the Molecule Man. And he failed. Jean's power is psionic, just as Storm's is. She failed. Evidently you have no idea how Sue's powers work. Sorry......
You haven't even read FF #600, have you? Current Johnny would solo without breaking a sweat, he has the cosmic control rod and commands the Annihilation Wave. There is nothing Storm can do against them. Both your arguments are garbage. Sorry :D
How about you STOP talking about all these other scenarios and speak to the scan that is shown.
FACT: The scan that I provided does not indicate anywhere that she regulated her field to allow Storm to use her power. That is simple speculation period. Provide me a scan that shows Sue allows oxygen to transverse her field, meaning that her field is semi-porous. Then and maybe then will you have a case. Also, how long have these shields been up when she has contained people. You do realize that at the moment she generates a shield she also entraps air within as well. It would take a considerable amount of time, depending on the size of the shield, to deplete the air inside the shield. Unless you provide me a scan with some sort of dialogue that indicates that she regulates the air through the field, then everything you say on the matter is speculation. Period.
Therefore, it can be concluded that your logical conclusion is based on things that are speculative at best.
Molecule Man: show me a scan that shows him controlling the air on the level of Storm's? True both their powers are psionic, but the scan you are talking about spoke specifically to jean grey telekinesis. So again, it worked against Jean true, but not against Storm. They are different character's so I don't expect it to.
I don't need to read 600 FF, and i think the OP stated somewhere that Johnny doesn't have the cosmic rod. So yea again your speculation has been debunked again.
What other scenarios? You mean demonstrations of Sue's powers that are detrimental to the nonsensical theories you keep putting forward?
Sue has maintained shields in space, in the air, in the Negative Zone. It logically follows that she's allowing air inside or the multiple people that she's contained within them wouldn't be able to breath, and the novas wouldn't be able to burn. This requires no mental gymnastics. Do you even understand the difference between speculation and deduction? Evidently not.
Are you seriously disputing that Molecule Man controls air better than Storm does, given that he controls everything better than anyone on the planet? I hope you're just joking and this is not a poorly thought out attempt at trolling. Sue's powers are tailor-made when it comes to psionics.
OP does not state any such thing. The only thing that has been debunked is your regular garbage.
This is simply quite silly. You have yet to debunk anything that I have asked. Provide me a scan that states that Sue can regulate her shield to allow air to transverse it? You can't and all the insults are not required so save it. If you are going to assert something and you can't back it up, then I see no point in further debating.
Also, the OP has a pic of Johnny WITHOUT the cosmic rod, so it IS stated within the OP. Instead of trying to insult me, which you are poorly doing, why don't you actually pay attention to what is actually stated (whether implicitly or explicitly) so you don't come seem so foolish next time
Give me a break. You're just throwing logic out the window to support an idiotic argument. If air couldn't transverse Sue's shields she would have died a long time ago, any one with at least half a brain can work that out for themselves. I do not need scans to prove something any fool should know.
OP has a pic of Johnny WITHOUT the cosmic rod, true. But that is because there is no pic of the Four with a rod-wielding Johnny. And the rules clearly state that in the absence of specifications, standard equipment is assumed. It's like saying that the Gorgon doesn't have Grasscutter just because it's not in the OP's pic. Of course, this doesn't matter since the OP has since been edited.
Instead of just spewing nonsensical garbage, how about you come up with an argument that makes even the tiniest bit of sense for once?
You clearly have nothing else of substance to bring to this conversation. You haven't answered any of my questions and like I said, the picture shows him without the rod, and you are right the OP has been changed and what does it say? Hmmmmm. I thought so. You rambling on and on about the cosmic rod and as the pic shows he does not have it and the OP confirmed what I stated so please all of what you are saying is irrelevant. You are SIMPLY WRONG!!!! Get over yourself. You can't prove or disprove my scan that I provided so until you can, it is safe to assume Storm can manipulate the air within her field, as I have provided a scan showing the opposite is true. Case closed, accept defeat, and keep it moving. HAHAHAHA hilarious.
@Dernman
said:
hahahaha!! you have to be kidding me! She is not in a skin tight forcefield. She is simply invisible and has placed a circular disc force field in between herself and Silver surfer. Try again my friend because this here is an epic fail of an attempt to prove your point.
@nickthedevil said:
@butterflykyss: you being a fan of storm i sincerely inquire that you describe how storm's power work exactly... she controls certain molecules correct?
EDIT: would you also be gracious enough to provide scans of storm and Human torch fighting??
Yes I am a Raindrop (storm fan), and Storm's power work psionically, she sees the weather as energy pattern that she bends and control to her bidding. She also has been shown to manipulate and control oxygen and hydrogen (the lightest and smallest element) molecules.
You are seriously reaching now. All of what you said is pure speculation, which is not supported anywhere by the dialogue or scan provided. Nowhere does it suggest that Sue "let" Storm use her power across the field or that she regulated her field so that Storm could do so. And as you should know, comics at this time always went into detail as to what was being shown on the panel as you can see in box in the same panel. Nowhere does it say "SUE IS REGULATING HER FIELD TO ALLOW STORM TO USE HER POWERS TO SLOW THEIR DESCENT." So again you are reaching, and badly might I add. To your next point, Molecule Man and Jean Grey are not Storm, simple as that. So try as you may to justify it, the scan doesn't lie and its the best thing we have to determine how this match would go. I'm sure the Marvel writers and team at the time this was written understood how Storm's power's worked as well as Sue well enough. Sorry..
With Johnny what you said is just a big No. As I stated about Johnny, he needs oxygen to utilize his powers and Storm controls that. Besides, STorm has already faced off against Johnny and he lost badly. So yeah both your arguments have been debunked Sorry :D
It is common sense, and anyone with at least some degree of intelligence can work it out. Give it a shot.
FACT: Sue has contained other people inside her shield. They need oxygen. She has contained novas inside her shield. They need oxygen. Therefore, Sue's shields can allow the flow of oxygen inside them.
FACT: Sue has suffocated people by enclosing their heads inside a shield. The Super-Skrull has a weaker version of her powers and he has also done it. Therefore, Sue's shields can cut off the flow of oxygen inside them.
LOGICAL CONCLUSION: Sue regulates the conditions inside and outside her shield.
No reaching. No speculation. All it takes is an assembly of facts and some basic deduction. I don't see why this is so hard to grasp. If Sue had not allowed Storm to control the air outside the shield, they would have fallen. Obviously, that would have done nothing for the plot. It's as simple as that. Molecule Man controls everything, he controls the air to a degree that is a hundred times superior to Storm's. He's the Molecule Man. And he failed. Jean's power is psionic, just as Storm's is. She failed. Evidently you have no idea how Sue's powers work. Sorry......
You haven't even read FF #600, have you? Current Johnny would solo without breaking a sweat, he has the cosmic control rod and commands the Annihilation Wave. There is nothing Storm can do against them. Both your arguments are garbage. Sorry :D
How about you STOP talking about all these other scenarios and speak to the scan that is shown.
FACT: The scan that I provided does not indicate anywhere that she regulated her field to allow Storm to use her power. That is simple speculation period. Provide me a scan that shows Sue allows oxygen to transverse her field, meaning that her field is semi-porous. Then and maybe then will you have a case. Also, how long have these shields been up when she has contained people. You do realize that at the moment she generates a shield she also entraps air within as well. It would take a considerable amount of time, depending on the size of the shield, to deplete the air inside the shield. Unless you provide me a scan with some sort of dialogue that indicates that she regulates the air through the field, then everything you say on the matter is speculation. Period.
Therefore, it can be concluded that your logical conclusion is based on things that are speculative at best.
Molecule Man: show me a scan that shows him controlling the air on the level of Storm's? True both their powers are psionic, but the scan you are talking about spoke specifically to jean grey telekinesis. So again, it worked against Jean true, but not against Storm. They are different character's so I don't expect it to.
I don't need to read 600 FF, and i think the OP stated somewhere that Johnny doesn't have the cosmic rod. So yea again your speculation has been debunked again.
What other scenarios? You mean demonstrations of Sue's powers that are detrimental to the nonsensical theories you keep putting forward?
Sue has maintained shields in space, in the air, in the Negative Zone. It logically follows that she's allowing air inside or the multiple people that she's contained within them wouldn't be able to breath, and the novas wouldn't be able to burn. This requires no mental gymnastics. Do you even understand the difference between speculation and deduction? Evidently not.
Are you seriously disputing that Molecule Man controls air better than Storm does, given that he controls everything better than anyone on the planet? I hope you're just joking and this is not a poorly thought out attempt at trolling. Sue's powers are tailor-made when it comes to psionics.
OP does not state any such thing. The only thing that has been debunked is your regular garbage.
This is simply quite silly. You have yet to debunk anything that I have asked. Provide me a scan that states that Sue can regulate her shield to allow air to transverse it? You can't and all the insults are not required so save it. If you are going to assert something and you can't back it up, then I see no point in further debating.
Also, the OP has a pic of Johnny WITHOUT the cosmic rod, so it IS stated within the OP. Instead of trying to insult me, which you are poorly doing, why don't you actually pay attention to what is actually stated (whether implicitly or explicitly) so you don't come seem so foolish next time
Give me a break. You're just throwing logic out the window to support an idiotic argument. If air couldn't transverse Sue's shields she would have died a long time ago, any one with at least half a brain can work that out for themselves. I do not need scans to prove something any fool should know.
OP has a pic of Johnny WITHOUT the cosmic rod, true. But that is because there is no pic of the Four with a rod-wielding Johnny. And the rules clearly state that in the absence of specifications, standard equipment is assumed. It's like saying that the Gorgon doesn't have Grasscutter just because it's not in the OP's pic. Of course, this doesn't matter since the OP has since been edited.
Instead of just spewing nonsensical garbage, how about you come up with an argument that makes even the tiniest bit of sense for once?
You clearly have nothing else of substance to bring to this conversation. You haven't answered any of my questions and like I said, the picture shows him without the rod, and you are right the OP has been changed and what does it say? Hmmmmm. I thought so. You rambling on and on about the cosmic rod and as the pic shows he does not have it and the OP confirmed what I stated so please all of what you are saying is irrelevant. You are SIMPLY WRONG!!!! Get over yourself. You can't prove or disprove my scan that I provided so until you can, it is safe to assume Storm can manipulate the air within her field, as I have provided a scan showing the opposite is true. Case closed, accept defeat, and keep it moving. HAHAHAHA hilarious.
thanks for the pic.
but several things got me thinking: were they even fighting in that scene? he was taking out the foundation of a building... what answer does Storm have for johnny if he were to blitz her in plasma mode?
every argument we've given you has been substantial my friend. especially CB's.
Ou contraire, if her powers work psionically she doesn't affect the interior of the shield.
and psionically controlling molecules has already been shown it can't be done. Molecule man has a wider range of ability in controlling molecules. pretty obvious.
yes, all this has been said, but you are asking that we answered your questions, and i believe they have been, while it seems you maybe missed these facts a couple pages back... just repeating them in case you might have over looked them :)
Also, if sue's shield is psionic proof; as we've seen with jean grey, wouldnt it negate storms powers.
That is what has been pointed out since this whole thing began. Barring PIS, psionic powers simply do not get through or affect Sue's shields. That has been proven time and time again. Sue's shields have rendered Jean ineffectual at least twice, the first was in Fantastic Four #28 and the second in Fantastic Four #286.
Sue's shields are not resistant to psionic powers. They are IMMUNE. Period.
@nickthedevil Storm's powers and Jean's work DIFFERENTLY though they are both psionic.
Per Thunderbolt30:
Ultimately, no one can prove that Sue's field can negate Storm's connection to the atmosphere and that scan supports this, but this is the only actual occurrence (not like the dream battle between Sue and Crystal). In this story, Storm being able to lower the team with her winds was not at all relevant to the plot, so it's not PIS by any means. Storm could have lowered them all on her own winds whether Sue created a force field or not, and prior to this issue, Storm has not worked with Sue IIRC for her to even know if she could "allow" Storm's powers to go beyond her force field anyway.
Storm's powers are psionic in nature, like Jean & Sersi, but her powers do not work the same as theirs do. With Jean and Sersi for example, their psionic energy (TK/matter manipulation or TP) derives from their bodies and extends to a target, which Sue's field has been able to block. There powers have no pre-existign connection to the atmosphere, which is where their power applications differ from Storm's. Jean couldn't use her TK on Sue before since Sue's field blocked her energy from reaching her.
Storm's psionic connection to the atmosphere is automatic and is always on. She doesn't have to connect her power to the atmosphere since that connection is always on and exists before Sue's force field would go up.
Also, if sue's shield is psionic proof; as we've seen with jean grey, wouldnt it negate storms powers.
That is what has been pointed out since this whole thing began. Barring PIS, psionic powers simply do not get through or affect Sue's shields. That has been proven time and time again. Sue's shields have rendered Jean ineffectual at least twice, the first was in Fantastic Four #28 and the second in Fantastic Four #286.
Sue's shields are not resistant to psionic powers. They are IMMUNE. Period.
@nickthedevil Storm's powers and Jean's work DIFFERENTLY though they are both psionic.
Per Thunderbolt30:
Ultimately, no one can prove that Sue's field can negate Storm's connection to the atmosphere and that scan supports this, but this is the only actual occurrence (not like the dream battle between Sue and Crystal). In this story, Storm being able to lower the team with her winds was not at all relevant to the plot, so it's not PIS by any means. Storm could have lowered them all on her own winds whether Sue created a force field or not, and prior to this issue, Storm has not worked with Sue IIRC for her to even know if she could "allow" Storm's powers to go beyond her force field anyway.
Storm's powers are psionic in nature, like Jean & Sersi, but her powers do not work the same as theirs do. With Jean and Sersi for example, their psionic energy (TK/matter manipulation or TP) derives from their bodies and extends to a target, which Sue's field has been able to block. There powers have no pre-existign connection to the atmosphere, which is where their power applications differ from Storm's. Jean couldn't use her TK on Sue before since Sue's field blocked her energy from reaching her.
Storm's psionic connection to the atmosphere is automatic and is always on. She doesn't have to connect her power to the atmosphere since that connection is always on and exists before Sue's force field would go up.
This means absolutely nothing. By that logic Molecule Man's powers work exactly the same way Storm's do, he is permanently connected to all the molecules and has no need to activate any connection. And his command over air is far better than Storm's, considering that he controls everything better than everyone else.
Also, if sue's shield is psionic proof; as we've seen with jean grey, wouldnt it negate storms powers.
That is what has been pointed out since this whole thing began. Barring PIS, psionic powers simply do not get through or affect Sue's shields. That has been proven time and time again. Sue's shields have rendered Jean ineffectual at least twice, the first was in Fantastic Four #28 and the second in Fantastic Four #286.
Sue's shields are not resistant to psionic powers. They are IMMUNE. Period.
@nickthedevil Storm's powers and Jean's work DIFFERENTLY though they are both psionic.
Per Thunderbolt30:
Ultimately, no one can prove that Sue's field can negate Storm's connection to the atmosphere and that scan supports this, but this is the only actual occurrence (not like the dream battle between Sue and Crystal). In this story, Storm being able to lower the team with her winds was not at all relevant to the plot, so it's not PIS by any means. Storm could have lowered them all on her own winds whether Sue created a force field or not, and prior to this issue, Storm has not worked with Sue IIRC for her to even know if she could "allow" Storm's powers to go beyond her force field anyway.
Storm's powers are psionic in nature, like Jean & Sersi, but her powers do not work the same as theirs do. With Jean and Sersi for example, their psionic energy (TK/matter manipulation or TP) derives from their bodies and extends to a target, which Sue's field has been able to block. There powers have no pre-existign connection to the atmosphere, which is where their power applications differ from Storm's. Jean couldn't use her TK on Sue before since Sue's field blocked her energy from reaching her.
Storm's psionic connection to the atmosphere is automatic and is always on. She doesn't have to connect her power to the atmosphere since that connection is always on and exists before Sue's force field would go up.
This means absolutely nothing. By that logic Molecule Man's powers work exactly the same way Storm's do, he is permanently connected to all the molecules and has no need to activate any connection. And his command over air is far better than Storm's, considering that he controls everything better than everyone else.
You are seriously reaching now. All of what you said is pure speculation, which is not supported anywhere by the dialogue or scan provided. Nowhere does it suggest that Sue "let" Storm use her power across the field or that she regulated her field so that Storm could do so. And as you should know, comics at this time always went into detail as to what was being shown on the panel as you can see in box in the same panel. Nowhere does it say "SUE IS REGULATING HER FIELD TO ALLOW STORM TO USE HER POWERS TO SLOW THEIR DESCENT." So again you are reaching, and badly might I add. To your next point, Molecule Man and Jean Grey are not Storm, simple as that. So try as you may to justify it, the scan doesn't lie and its the best thing we have to determine how this match would go. I'm sure the Marvel writers and team at the time this was written understood how Storm's power's worked as well as Sue well enough. Sorry..
With Johnny what you said is just a big No. As I stated about Johnny, he needs oxygen to utilize his powers and Storm controls that. Besides, STorm has already faced off against Johnny and he lost badly. So yeah both your arguments have been debunked Sorry :D
It is common sense, and anyone with at least some degree of intelligence can work it out. Give it a shot.
FACT: Sue has contained other people inside her shield. They need oxygen. She has contained novas inside her shield. They need oxygen. Therefore, Sue's shields can allow the flow of oxygen inside them.
FACT: Sue has suffocated people by enclosing their heads inside a shield. The Super-Skrull has a weaker version of her powers and he has also done it. Therefore, Sue's shields can cut off the flow of oxygen inside them.
LOGICAL CONCLUSION: Sue regulates the conditions inside and outside her shield.
No reaching. No speculation. All it takes is an assembly of facts and some basic deduction. I don't see why this is so hard to grasp. If Sue had not allowed Storm to control the air outside the shield, they would have fallen. Obviously, that would have done nothing for the plot. It's as simple as that. Molecule Man controls everything, he controls the air to a degree that is a hundred times superior to Storm's. He's the Molecule Man. And he failed. Jean's power is psionic, just as Storm's is. She failed. Evidently you have no idea how Sue's powers work. Sorry......
You haven't even read FF #600, have you? Current Johnny would solo without breaking a sweat, he has the cosmic control rod and commands the Annihilation Wave. There is nothing Storm can do against them. Both your arguments are garbage. Sorry :D
How about you STOP talking about all these other scenarios and speak to the scan that is shown.
FACT: The scan that I provided does not indicate anywhere that she regulated her field to allow Storm to use her power. That is simple speculation period. Provide me a scan that shows Sue allows oxygen to transverse her field, meaning that her field is semi-porous. Then and maybe then will you have a case. Also, how long have these shields been up when she has contained people. You do realize that at the moment she generates a shield she also entraps air within as well. It would take a considerable amount of time, depending on the size of the shield, to deplete the air inside the shield. Unless you provide me a scan with some sort of dialogue that indicates that she regulates the air through the field, then everything you say on the matter is speculation. Period.
Therefore, it can be concluded that your logical conclusion is based on things that are speculative at best.
Molecule Man: show me a scan that shows him controlling the air on the level of Storm's? True both their powers are psionic, but the scan you are talking about spoke specifically to jean grey telekinesis. So again, it worked against Jean true, but not against Storm. They are different character's so I don't expect it to.
I don't need to read 600 FF, and i think the OP stated somewhere that Johnny doesn't have the cosmic rod. So yea again your speculation has been debunked again.
What other scenarios? You mean demonstrations of Sue's powers that are detrimental to the nonsensical theories you keep putting forward?
Sue has maintained shields in space, in the air, in the Negative Zone. It logically follows that she's allowing air inside or the multiple people that she's contained within them wouldn't be able to breath, and the novas wouldn't be able to burn. This requires no mental gymnastics. Do you even understand the difference between speculation and deduction? Evidently not.
Are you seriously disputing that Molecule Man controls air better than Storm does, given that he controls everything better than anyone on the planet? I hope you're just joking and this is not a poorly thought out attempt at trolling. Sue's powers are tailor-made when it comes to psionics.
OP does not state any such thing. The only thing that has been debunked is your regular garbage.
This is simply quite silly. You have yet to debunk anything that I have asked. Provide me a scan that states that Sue can regulate her shield to allow air to transverse it? You can't and all the insults are not required so save it. If you are going to assert something and you can't back it up, then I see no point in further debating.
Also, the OP has a pic of Johnny WITHOUT the cosmic rod, so it IS stated within the OP. Instead of trying to insult me, which you are poorly doing, why don't you actually pay attention to what is actually stated (whether implicitly or explicitly) so you don't come seem so foolish next time
Give me a break. You're just throwing logic out the window to support an idiotic argument. If air couldn't transverse Sue's shields she would have died a long time ago, any one with at least half a brain can work that out for themselves. I do not need scans to prove something any fool should know.
OP has a pic of Johnny WITHOUT the cosmic rod, true. But that is because there is no pic of the Four with a rod-wielding Johnny. And the rules clearly state that in the absence of specifications, standard equipment is assumed. It's like saying that the Gorgon doesn't have Grasscutter just because it's not in the OP's pic. Of course, this doesn't matter since the OP has since been edited.
Instead of just spewing nonsensical garbage, how about you come up with an argument that makes even the tiniest bit of sense for once?
You clearly have nothing else of substance to bring to this conversation. You haven't answered any of my questions and like I said, the picture shows him without the rod, and you are right the OP has been changed and what does it say? Hmmmmm. I thought so. You rambling on and on about the cosmic rod and as the pic shows he does not have it and the OP confirmed what I stated so please all of what you are saying is irrelevant. You are SIMPLY WRONG!!!! Get over yourself. You can't prove or disprove my scan that I provided so until you can, it is safe to assume Storm can manipulate the air within her field, as I have provided a scan showing the opposite is true. Case closed, accept defeat, and keep it moving. HAHAHAHA hilarious.
thanks for the pic.
but several things got me thinking: were they even fighting in that scene? he was taking out the foundation of a building... what answer does Storm have for johnny if he were to blitz her in plasma mode?
every argument we've given you has been substantial my friend. especially CB's.
Ou contraire, if her powers work psionically she doesn't affect the interior of the shield.
and psionically controlling molecules has already been shown it can't be done. Molecule man has a wider range of ability in controlling molecules. pretty obvious.
yes, all this has been said, but you are asking that we answered your questions, and i believe they have been, while it seems you maybe missed these facts a couple pages back... just repeating them in case you might have over looked them :)
No prob. :)
They were not fighting in the panel I posted. The battle starts and they are five mile a part. Also, Storm has already beaten Johnny, and without the cosmic rod, Johnny needs oxygen to fuel his powers and Storm controls this. Without the his flame he is done.
CB's IMO are not very coherent and he has not provided any sort of evidence that would disprove my point which is show me a scan that states IW regulates her field to allow air within it. I am pretty sure the Modern IW can do this, but in the scan I provided she was A.) Invisible Girl and wasn't as skilled as she is now with her powers, B.) No where in the scan does it state she is regulating the field to allow storm to use her power, and C.) Storm has a natural connection with the atmosphere that can't just be cut off and this is supported by the scan I provided. To assert anything else is just speculation.
Again, Molecule man, Jean's and Storm may be psionics but there powers work differently. Please see the other point that was made on this; which would explain why her powers are able to work across Sue's field.
IMO I really don't see how my questions have been answered. Derman showed me a scan with Invisible Woman using her power to make her invisible and projecting a circular invisible shield to push SS off his board, and he is using this to show she is in a skin tight forcefield. That does not answer my question. She is simply invisible, not in a skin tight forcefield. Also, CB keeps talking about Jean Grey and MM. I have already expressed and explained how their powers work differently. His scans doesn't disprove anything I have stated. :)
Also, CB keeps talking about Jean Grey and MM. I have already expressed and explained how their powers work differently. His scans doesn't disprove anything I have stated. :)
If you knew anything about Molecule Man, which you don't considering how ignorant you are about anyone who's not the goddess, then you would know that his entire schtick is being one with the molecules at all points of time. WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU KEEP SAYING ABOUT STORM. How hard is this to understand? Everything you've stated is ridiculous and has been debunked and/or dismissed as idiocy with a healthy combination of trolling. But you persist with your fairy tales despite all the evidence that's shoved in your face repeatedly. You're just being willfully dense at this point.
And so I return to my previous point:
Aside from the garbage one desperate fanboy keeps spewing, FF wins.
Also, if sue's shield is psionic proof; as we've seen with jean grey, wouldnt it negate storms powers.
That is what has been pointed out since this whole thing began. Barring PIS, psionic powers simply do not get through or affect Sue's shields. That has been proven time and time again. Sue's shields have rendered Jean ineffectual at least twice, the first was in Fantastic Four #28 and the second in Fantastic Four #286.
Sue's shields are not resistant to psionic powers. They are IMMUNE. Period.
@nickthedevil Storm's powers and Jean's work DIFFERENTLY though they are both psionic.
Per Thunderbolt30:
Ultimately, no one can prove that Sue's field can negate Storm's connection to the atmosphere and that scan supports this, but this is the only actual occurrence (not like the dream battle between Sue and Crystal). In this story, Storm being able to lower the team with her winds was not at all relevant to the plot, so it's not PIS by any means. Storm could have lowered them all on her own winds whether Sue created a force field or not, and prior to this issue, Storm has not worked with Sue IIRC for her to even know if she could "allow" Storm's powers to go beyond her force field anyway.
Storm's powers are psionic in nature, like Jean & Sersi, but her powers do not work the same as theirs do. With Jean and Sersi for example, their psionic energy (TK/matter manipulation or TP) derives from their bodies and extends to a target, which Sue's field has been able to block. There powers have no pre-existign connection to the atmosphere, which is where their power applications differ from Storm's. Jean couldn't use her TK on Sue before since Sue's field blocked her energy from reaching her.
Storm's psionic connection to the atmosphere is automatic and is always on. She doesn't have to connect her power to the atmosphere since that connection is always on and exists before Sue's force field would go up.
This means absolutely nothing. By that logic Molecule Man's powers work exactly the same way Storm's do, he is permanently connected to all the molecules and has no need to activate any connection. And his command over air is far better than Storm's, considering that he controls everything better than everyone else.
WTF???? First off your logic is flawed because if there powers worked exactly the same way he would exhibit and be able to do the things that she does on every sense of the level. It may be similar in that they are psionic, but it is certainly not the same. Does he see the weather as a form of energy? Does he have a connection to the planet and feel shifts in the atmosphere or electromagnetic field? Does he even control the weather? Does he even have latent magical heritage? Your argument is fundamentally a flawed one and regardless of what type of connection he demostrates with the molecules, this absolutely has no bearing on how Storm's power works and function. So please again, until you can provide me a scan that can contradict the scan I provided the conversation is closed.
Also, if sue's shield is psionic proof; as we've seen with jean grey, wouldnt it negate storms powers.
That is what has been pointed out since this whole thing began. Barring PIS, psionic powers simply do not get through or affect Sue's shields. That has been proven time and time again. Sue's shields have rendered Jean ineffectual at least twice, the first was in Fantastic Four #28 and the second in Fantastic Four #286.
Sue's shields are not resistant to psionic powers. They are IMMUNE. Period.
@nickthedevil Storm's powers and Jean's work DIFFERENTLY though they are both psionic.
Per Thunderbolt30:
Ultimately, no one can prove that Sue's field can negate Storm's connection to the atmosphere and that scan supports this, but this is the only actual occurrence (not like the dream battle between Sue and Crystal). In this story, Storm being able to lower the team with her winds was not at all relevant to the plot, so it's not PIS by any means. Storm could have lowered them all on her own winds whether Sue created a force field or not, and prior to this issue, Storm has not worked with Sue IIRC for her to even know if she could "allow" Storm's powers to go beyond her force field anyway.
Storm's powers are psionic in nature, like Jean & Sersi, but her powers do not work the same as theirs do. With Jean and Sersi for example, their psionic energy (TK/matter manipulation or TP) derives from their bodies and extends to a target, which Sue's field has been able to block. There powers have no pre-existign connection to the atmosphere, which is where their power applications differ from Storm's. Jean couldn't use her TK on Sue before since Sue's field blocked her energy from reaching her.
Storm's psionic connection to the atmosphere is automatic and is always on. She doesn't have to connect her power to the atmosphere since that connection is always on and exists before Sue's force field would go up.
This means absolutely nothing. By that logic Molecule Man's powers work exactly the same way Storm's do, he is permanently connected to all the molecules and has no need to activate any connection. And his command over air is far better than Storm's, considering that he controls everything better than everyone else.
WTF???? First off your logic is flawed because if there powers worked exactly the same way he would exhibit and be able to do the things that she does on every sense of the level. Does he see the weather as a form of energy? Does he have a connection to the planet and feel shifts in the atmosphere or electromagnetic field? Does he even control the weather? Does he even have latent magical heritage? Your argument is fundamentally a flawed one and regardless of what type of connection he demostrates with the molecules, this absolutely has no bearing on how Storm's power works and function. So please again, until you can provide me a scan that can contradict the scan I provided the conversation is closed.
God, you're ignorant. HE CONTROLS EVERY MOLECULE IN THE UNIVERSE. HIS CONTROL IS INFINITELY SUPERIOR TO STORM'S.
This is all common knowledge. You are the only one deluded enough to think Storm could compete with Molecule Man when it comes to control.
Your argument is complete nonsense, and this conversation was closed a long time ago. FF wins.
One of many pics over the years where Johnny has been inside her shields while being lit. If she wasn't able to let air into the bubble he would burn up all the Oxygen and they would die.
Also, if sue's shield is psionic proof; as we've seen with jean grey, wouldnt it negate storms powers.
That is what has been pointed out since this whole thing began. Barring PIS, psionic powers simply do not get through or affect Sue's shields. That has been proven time and time again. Sue's shields have rendered Jean ineffectual at least twice, the first was in Fantastic Four #28 and the second in Fantastic Four #286.
Sue's shields are not resistant to psionic powers. They are IMMUNE. Period.
@nickthedevil Storm's powers and Jean's work DIFFERENTLY though they are both psionic.
Per Thunderbolt30:
Ultimately, no one can prove that Sue's field can negate Storm's connection to the atmosphere and that scan supports this, but this is the only actual occurrence (not like the dream battle between Sue and Crystal). In this story, Storm being able to lower the team with her winds was not at all relevant to the plot, so it's not PIS by any means. Storm could have lowered them all on her own winds whether Sue created a force field or not, and prior to this issue, Storm has not worked with Sue IIRC for her to even know if she could "allow" Storm's powers to go beyond her force field anyway.
Storm's powers are psionic in nature, like Jean & Sersi, but her powers do not work the same as theirs do. With Jean and Sersi for example, their psionic energy (TK/matter manipulation or TP) derives from their bodies and extends to a target, which Sue's field has been able to block. There powers have no pre-existign connection to the atmosphere, which is where their power applications differ from Storm's. Jean couldn't use her TK on Sue before since Sue's field blocked her energy from reaching her.
Storm's psionic connection to the atmosphere is automatic and is always on. She doesn't have to connect her power to the atmosphere since that connection is always on and exists before Sue's force field would go up.
This means absolutely nothing. By that logic Molecule Man's powers work exactly the same way Storm's do, he is permanently connected to all the molecules and has no need to activate any connection. And his command over air is far better than Storm's, considering that he controls everything better than everyone else.
WTF???? First off your logic is flawed because if there powers worked exactly the same way he would exhibit and be able to do the things that she does on every sense of the level. Does he see the weather as a form of energy? Does he have a connection to the planet and feel shifts in the atmosphere or electromagnetic field? Does he even control the weather? Does he even have latent magical heritage? Your argument is fundamentally a flawed one and regardless of what type of connection he demostrates with the molecules, this absolutely has no bearing on how Storm's power works and function. So please again, until you can provide me a scan that can contradict the scan I provided the conversation is closed.
God, you're ignorant. HE CONTROLS EVERY MOLECULE IN THE UNIVERSE. HIS CONTROL IS INFINITELY SUPERIOR TO STORM'S.
This is all common knowledge. You are the only one deluded enough to think Storm could compete with Molecule Man when it comes to control.
Your argument is complete nonsense, and this conversation was closed a long time ago. FF wins.
And when you are done their powers don't function the same. You haven't answered any question and your opinion is that FF, which it wrong. STorm FTW and CYCLOPS AND STORM overkill @Dernman said:
Not skin tight and there is no indication as to how long she held the shield up. So let's be clear, Im sure air can transverse her field. But none of this debunks or suggests that storm cannot control the air within her shield.
Also, if sue's shield is psionic proof; as we've seen with jean grey, wouldnt it negate storms powers.
That is what has been pointed out since this whole thing began. Barring PIS, psionic powers simply do not get through or affect Sue's shields. That has been proven time and time again. Sue's shields have rendered Jean ineffectual at least twice, the first was in Fantastic Four #28 and the second in Fantastic Four #286.
Sue's shields are not resistant to psionic powers. They are IMMUNE. Period.
@nickthedevil Storm's powers and Jean's work DIFFERENTLY though they are both psionic.
Per Thunderbolt30:
Ultimately, no one can prove that Sue's field can negate Storm's connection to the atmosphere and that scan supports this, but this is the only actual occurrence (not like the dream battle between Sue and Crystal). In this story, Storm being able to lower the team with her winds was not at all relevant to the plot, so it's not PIS by any means. Storm could have lowered them all on her own winds whether Sue created a force field or not, and prior to this issue, Storm has not worked with Sue IIRC for her to even know if she could "allow" Storm's powers to go beyond her force field anyway.
Storm's powers are psionic in nature, like Jean & Sersi, but her powers do not work the same as theirs do. With Jean and Sersi for example, their psionic energy (TK/matter manipulation or TP) derives from their bodies and extends to a target, which Sue's field has been able to block. There powers have no pre-existign connection to the atmosphere, which is where their power applications differ from Storm's. Jean couldn't use her TK on Sue before since Sue's field blocked her energy from reaching her.
Storm's psionic connection to the atmosphere is automatic and is always on. She doesn't have to connect her power to the atmosphere since that connection is always on and exists before Sue's force field would go up.
This means absolutely nothing. By that logic Molecule Man's powers work exactly the same way Storm's do, he is permanently connected to all the molecules and has no need to activate any connection. And his command over air is far better than Storm's, considering that he controls everything better than everyone else.
WTF???? First off your logic is flawed because if there powers worked exactly the same way he would exhibit and be able to do the things that she does on every sense of the level. Does he see the weather as a form of energy? Does he have a connection to the planet and feel shifts in the atmosphere or electromagnetic field? Does he even control the weather? Does he even have latent magical heritage? Your argument is fundamentally a flawed one and regardless of what type of connection he demostrates with the molecules, this absolutely has no bearing on how Storm's power works and function. So please again, until you can provide me a scan that can contradict the scan I provided the conversation is closed.
God, you're ignorant. HE CONTROLS EVERY MOLECULE IN THE UNIVERSE. HIS CONTROL IS INFINITELY SUPERIOR TO STORM'S.
This is all common knowledge. You are the only one deluded enough to think Storm could compete with Molecule Man when it comes to control.
Your argument is complete nonsense, and this conversation was closed a long time ago. FF wins.
And when you are done their powers don't function the same. You haven't answered any question and your opinion is that FF, which it wrong. STorm FTW and CYCLOPS AND STORM overkill @Dernman said:
Not skin tight and there is no indication as to how long she held the shield up. So let's be clear, Im sure air can transverse her field. But none of this debunks or suggests that storm cannot control the air within her shield.
Molecule Man's powers function BETTER. He can do absolutely everything Storm can do, a million times better. And then more. There is quite literally NOTHING that Storm can do that Molecule Man cannot do better. So if he couldn't pull it off, Storm has no chance whatsoever. Denying that is just fanboyism at its worst. Read something.
Also, if sue's shield is psionic proof; as we've seen with jean grey, wouldnt it negate storms powers.
That is what has been pointed out since this whole thing began. Barring PIS, psionic powers simply do not get through or affect Sue's shields. That has been proven time and time again. Sue's shields have rendered Jean ineffectual at least twice, the first was in Fantastic Four #28 and the second in Fantastic Four #286.
Sue's shields are not resistant to psionic powers. They are IMMUNE. Period.
@nickthedevil Storm's powers and Jean's work DIFFERENTLY though they are both psionic.
Per Thunderbolt30:
Ultimately, no one can prove that Sue's field can negate Storm's connection to the atmosphere and that scan supports this, but this is the only actual occurrence (not like the dream battle between Sue and Crystal). In this story, Storm being able to lower the team with her winds was not at all relevant to the plot, so it's not PIS by any means. Storm could have lowered them all on her own winds whether Sue created a force field or not, and prior to this issue, Storm has not worked with Sue IIRC for her to even know if she could "allow" Storm's powers to go beyond her force field anyway.
Storm's powers are psionic in nature, like Jean & Sersi, but her powers do not work the same as theirs do. With Jean and Sersi for example, their psionic energy (TK/matter manipulation or TP) derives from their bodies and extends to a target, which Sue's field has been able to block. There powers have no pre-existign connection to the atmosphere, which is where their power applications differ from Storm's. Jean couldn't use her TK on Sue before since Sue's field blocked her energy from reaching her.
Storm's psionic connection to the atmosphere is automatic and is always on. She doesn't have to connect her power to the atmosphere since that connection is always on and exists before Sue's force field would go up.
This means absolutely nothing. By that logic Molecule Man's powers work exactly the same way Storm's do, he is permanently connected to all the molecules and has no need to activate any connection. And his command over air is far better than Storm's, considering that he controls everything better than everyone else.
WTF???? First off your logic is flawed because if there powers worked exactly the same way he would exhibit and be able to do the things that she does on every sense of the level. Does he see the weather as a form of energy? Does he have a connection to the planet and feel shifts in the atmosphere or electromagnetic field? Does he even control the weather? Does he even have latent magical heritage? Your argument is fundamentally a flawed one and regardless of what type of connection he demostrates with the molecules, this absolutely has no bearing on how Storm's power works and function. So please again, until you can provide me a scan that can contradict the scan I provided the conversation is closed.
God, you're ignorant. HE CONTROLS EVERY MOLECULE IN THE UNIVERSE. HIS CONTROL IS INFINITELY SUPERIOR TO STORM'S.
This is all common knowledge. You are the only one deluded enough to think Storm could compete with Molecule Man when it comes to control.
Your argument is complete nonsense, and this conversation was closed a long time ago. FF wins.
And when you are done their powers don't function the same. You haven't answered any question and your opinion is that FF, which it wrong. STorm FTW and CYCLOPS AND STORM overkill @Dernman said:
Not skin tight and there is no indication as to how long she held the shield up. So let's be clear, Im sure air can transverse her field. But none of this debunks or suggests that storm cannot control the air within her shield.
Molecule Man's powers function BETTER. He can do absolutely everything Storm can do, a million times better. And then more. There is quite literally NOTHING that Storm can do that Molecule Man cannot do better. So if he couldn't pull it off, Storm has no chance whatsoever. Denying that is just fanboyism at its worst. Read something.
I said i was done... I don't care about Molecule man, he is not even in this debate. You have failed to debunk anything I shown so please go be a troll somewhere and stop arguing just for arguing sake.
I said i was done... I don't care about Molecule man, he is not even in this debate. You have failed to debunk anything I shown so please go be a troll somewhere and stop arguing just for arguing sake.
You're done because all you've got is garbage that fails again and again to prove anything. Sure, now that Molecule Man who failed to get past Sue's shields has been proven to be far superior to Storm, you don't care about him. Every last piece of your ridiculous arguments has been debunked. You have nothing. Go back under your bridge, troll. Arguing logically evidently isn't your strong point.
Once more,
Aside from the garbage one desperate fanboy keeps spewing, FF wins.
Also, if sue's shield is psionic proof; as we've seen with jean grey, wouldnt it negate storms powers.
That is what has been pointed out since this whole thing began. Barring PIS, psionic powers simply do not get through or affect Sue's shields. That has been proven time and time again. Sue's shields have rendered Jean ineffectual at least twice, the first was in Fantastic Four #28 and the second in Fantastic Four #286.
Sue's shields are not resistant to psionic powers. They are IMMUNE. Period.
@CitizenBane, @nickthedevil Also, just curious is this shield air tight or is sue allowing air to go through? I am sure she wouldn't try to suffocate Jean, as she is clearly trying to contain her, not kill or KO her.
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