#1 Posted by SuperVegito (15 posts) - - Show Bio

Samurai Jack replaces Raiden against the ultimate senator from MGR:Revengeance.

#2 Edited by nickzambuto (13389 posts) - - Show Bio

The senator wins. He played college ball y'know.

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#3 Edited by Stingerrain (1050 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: At some cushy ivy league school.

In all seriousness though, if Jack's sword can bypass Armstrong's Nanomachines I can see him pulling a win. If not i'd give it to the senator.

#4 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (12021 posts) - - Show Bio

Jack, for damn sho.....

#5 Edited by joeagentofhand1 (4362 posts) - - Show Bio
#6 Posted by nickzambuto (13389 posts) - - Show Bio

Jack, for damn sho.....

I don't recall Samurai Jack ever playing college ball.

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#7 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (12021 posts) - - Show Bio

@ancient_0f_days said:

Jack, for damn sho.....

I don't recall Samurai Jack ever playing college ball.

Hell yeah he did...he played for the Michigan State SPARTANS

#8 Edited by nickzambuto (13389 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto said:

@ancient_0f_days said:

Jack, for damn sho.....

I don't recall Samurai Jack ever playing college ball.

Hell yeah he did...he played for the Michigan State SPARTANS

Yeah but Armstrong could'a gone pro if he hadn't joined the Navy.

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#9 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (12021 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah but Armstrong could'a gone pro if he hadn't joined the Navy.

Meh, coulda shoulda woulda ......

#10 Posted by dondave (36503 posts) - - Show Bio
#11 Edited by nickzambuto (13389 posts) - - Show Bio

Why is everyone saying Jack wins when he can't even hurt Armstrong? Indestructible sword =/= sharp sword. Just because Jack's sword won't break doesn't mean he'll do anything besides skim across The Senator's nanite flesh. The only way to beat Armstrong is by killing him before the nanomachines inside his body can harden; meaning you have to more or less blitz him faster than the speed of thought. Beating up some mercenaries before water can hit the floor is not faster than thought. I'd go so far as to call this a stomp in Armstrong's favor.

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#12 Edited by Ancient_0f_Days (12021 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: Jacks sword is the sharpest sword in his universe, it cut through nearly everything including magic infused adamantine ..... all it took was a little prayer .... besides that, Jack's sword is arguably sharper than Raiden's sword or Sam's sword and most definitely more durable than either since it is magical and by definition unbreakable (Raiden's sword was snapped like a twig by Steven)....

Also, I just got done watching the Raiden vs Armstrong vid again....Raiden didn't have to hit Armstrong faster than thought to harm and defeat him.....all he had to do is react faster than him and hit him where he wasn't focused on which is easy when you are faster than your opponent ..... he didn't have to move faster than thought, he had to hit Steven where he didn't see it coming....that should be easy for Samurai Jack since he is much faster than Armstrong....

#13 Posted by nickzambuto (13389 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: Jacks sword is the sharpest sword in his universe, it cut through nearly everything including magic infused adamantine ..... all it took was a little prayer .... besides that, Jack's sword is arguably sharper than Raiden's sword or Sam's sword and most definitely more durable than either since it is magical and by definition unbreakable (Raiden's sword was snapped like a twig by Steven)....

Also, I just got done watching the Raiden vs Armstrong vid again....Raiden didn't have to hit Armstrong faster than thought to harm and defeat him.....all he had to do is react faster than him and hit him where he wasn't focused on which is easy when you are faster than your opponent ..... he didn't have to move faster than thought, he had to hit Steven where he didn't see it coming....that should be easy for Samurai Jack since he is much faster than Armstrong....

It's like you said, Jack needed to offer a prayer before he had the strength to cut an extremely durable substance. At one point, he was even reduced to donning a strength enhancing gauntlet, because his sword just couldn't "cut" it (get it ehh?)

Raiden's HF Blade was stated to be completely indestructible; obviously Armstrong disproved that, but snapping it the way he did required the exertion of thousands of tons of force in just his finger tips, and as Doktor exclaimed, defied every conventional law of modern physics. This just means that the Senator can snap Jack in two as soon as he gets his hands on him, it doesn't take away from the sharpness of the blade. Raiden's HF Blade has much better cutting feats than Jack's blade, not to mention Raiden is also a helluva lot stronger than Jack, and still couldn't even scratch Armstrong.

Obviously since Jack's sword is unbreakable, it has the potential to cut through anything. Only problem is, with the blade's sharpness in mind, Jack isn't anywhere strong enough to puncture the claytronics inside the Senator's body.

Armstrong's heart constantly pumped his nanomachines all throughout his body, Doktor states that the claytronics hardening was controlled by the user's thoughts. Armstrong himself goes one step further, claiming they react instantly upon physical trauma. Hence, Raiden needing to stab him faster than thought. Even if you want to lowball it and say faster than Armstrong's reactions, Jack will still need to be making massively hypersonic swipes in order to blitz this senator.

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#14 Posted by nickzambuto (13389 posts) - - Show Bio

that should be easy for Samurai Jack since he is much faster than Armstrong....

Easy for Jack? No, not at all. Senator Armstrong has combat speed on par or surpassing Jetstream Sam, and his running speed was sufficient to speedblitz Raiden, who as I'm sure you know played hopscotch across a barrage of supersonic missiles.

Senator Armstrong>>>speed of sound. Raiden in his old body is quoted as tossing a volley of throwing knives with "machine gun speed". After his CNT upgrade, he's even faster. Roughly two to three times as fast. But when Raiden attempted to throw his sword at him, Armstrong B-slapped it straight out of the air.

Even more impressive is how Armstrong can catch Raiden's sword in his bare hands; Raiden can make numerous slashes of his sword in an instant.

4:00 Raiden easily reacts to the movement speed of AGM-65 Maverick missiles

8:20 throwing knife

6:40 dozens of cuts in milliseconds

All that, and...

0:50 Armstrong blitzes Raiden

3:00 catches his sword midswing and snaps it

3:25 smacks it out of the air

Samurai Jack's best feats are beating up some mercenaries before a water drop can hit the ground. Impressive, but not Raiden level considering one of the main gameplay mechanics of MGSRising is, quote, "harvesting cyborg organs before their bodies can even hit the floor!"

This requires great precision and reaction time, on top of pure movement speed.

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#15 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (12021 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: When Raiden isn't allowed his famed game mechanic, it is believable that Armstrong would be able to hit him, catch and break his sword but not really a testament to his own speed as much as you are making it out to be, in those parts of the cut scenes specifically, Raiden didn't have the luxury of Blade Mode .... later on when Raiden is using it he absolutely handles Steven...Where did you get idea that it would take thousands of tons of force to break Raiden's sword? Is there any solid evidence behind that? I'd post video evidence of Jack's feats, but in order to actually get an episode off of youtube i'd have to pay a fee to cartoon networks youtube channel .... this site doesn't allow me to post vids off of watchcartoonsonline.com .... in any case .... Jack has faster reaction feats than Steven, even when using Raiden as a benchmark ..... I'll post them when I find someone who isn't dedicating a samurai jack vid to their love of breaking benjamin or linkin park

#16 Posted by BadVoodoo (381 posts) - - Show Bio

*sigh* Jack kicks Stevens ass

#17 Posted by nickzambuto (13389 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: When Raiden isn't allowed his famed game mechanic, it is believable that Armstrong would be able to hit him, catch and break his sword but not really a testament to his own speed as much as you are making it out to be, in those parts of the cut scenes specifically, Raiden didn't have the luxury of Blade Mode ....

Blade Mode isn't a gameplay mechanic. Raiden regularly moves at those speeds.

4:50 It's also interesting to note that Raiden's blade can consistently cut objects without making full contact, supporting it's sharpness vs the sword Jack uses

10:45 disables all three Gekko with precision cuts in less then 1 second.

Even Raiden's famous battle against the dozen-or-so Gekko during Act 2 of MGS4 (his introduction) took place all in the time it took Snake and Naomi to walk 10 paces.

later on when Raiden is using it he absolutely handles Steven

Yeah, after The Senator was stabbed through the stomach by a vibroblade that turned all his internal organs into mush. Beforehand he was effortlessly reacting to Zandatsu and could disarm Raiden of his blade, just as he had in the cutscene. It's consistent that characters who are presented as a match for Raiden's speed, such as Sam and Monsoon, are not affected by Blade Mode. Armstrong is the only one who can actually counter it however.

Where did you get idea that it would take thousands of tons of force to break Raiden's sword? Is there any solid evidence behind that?

Based off the fact that Raiden could parry giant stomps from Metal Gear Excelsus, the blade can easily take a few thousand tons. He also used the sword as a handle to toss RAY through the air.

I'd post video evidence of Jack's feats, but in order to actually get an episode off of youtube i'd have to pay a fee to cartoon networks youtube channel .... this site doesn't allow me to post vids off of watchcartoonsonline.com

Just find the episodes and post links, you don't have the imbed the actual video.

Jack has faster reaction feats than Steven,

That's not true at all. I've posted plenty to prove Armstrong's speed vs that single water drop feat Jack has which isn't anything someone like Gray Fox couldn't replicate. In addition to outpacing Raiden and surpassing Jetstream Sam, Armstrong was also skilled enough to destroy the ultrafast Blade Wolf, a self adapting AI who was running circles around a guy with mach speed reaction time, and also outmaneuvered Khamsin, a cyborg who utilized jet propulsion to fight at supersonic speeds.

When I use the word skill, I am not referring to refined martial artist technique or anything like that. Steven is a brawler, and a great one at that. He has some military training but nothing too hype. He doesn't know any advanced combat maneuvers like Jack does, where his strength lies is in reaction time, brutality, and instinct, things all too apparent in his bout with Jetstream Sam.

7:00 He easily counters all of the samurai's best moves. Jetstream Sam has very similar training and history to Samurai Jack. It's clear that Armstrong is a ferocious fighter and is clearly experienced with boxing, along with basic military CQC. He also displays knowledge on a few wrestling maneuvers and holds/grapples in his fight with Raiden. Obviously he can't come anywhere close to guys like Sam and Jack in technique though, nowhere close. Again, his "skill" is his reaction time, a VERY important factor in actual martial arts.

Against a character who can effortlessly deflect gunfire from three mounted miniguns simultaneously (Sam), Samurai Jack can only hope to just barely keep up. But we can clearly see Armstrong outpacing Sam hit for hit. Ergo Armstrong is faster than Jack.

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#18 Posted by nickzambuto (13389 posts) - - Show Bio

*sigh* Jack kicks Stevens ass

Care to explain how?

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#19 Posted by Devil_Driver (112 posts) - - Show Bio

I will go with Senator Armstrong he is basically Teddy Roosevelt 2.0

#20 Posted by frogdog (3246 posts) - - Show Bio

People forget that Jack's sword has defeated immortals and intangible beings

#21 Edited by nickzambuto (13389 posts) - - Show Bio

@frogdog said:

People forget that Jack's sword has defeated immortals and intangible beings

Episodes in question? I feel there's more context then that. In any case, it can fight supernatural beings because that's what it was made to do. Consistently, Jack has struggled against super dense substances.

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#22 Posted by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

@frogdog said:

People forget that Jack's sword has defeated immortals and intangible beings

Episodes in question? I feel there's more context then that. In any case, it can fight supernatural beings because that's what it was made to do. Consistently, Jack has struggled against super dense substances.

Except reinforced steel constructs, which it effortlessly cuts through in waves.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#23 Edited by ommnomnomnom (53 posts) - - Show Bio

Armstrong vs hulk?

#24 Edited by Tenticleporn (3 posts) - - Show Bio

Jack with extreme ease. Jack outclasses Raiden in just about everything except raw lifting strength. And his sword is more powerful than Sam's sword that Raiden used to kill Armstrong.

This is spite

Armstrong vs hulk?

She Hulk, Thing or Colossus would one shot Armstrong let alone Hulk.

#25 Posted by nickzambuto (13389 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay said:

@nickzambuto said:

@frogdog said:

People forget that Jack's sword has defeated immortals and intangible beings

Episodes in question? I feel there's more context then that. In any case, it can fight supernatural beings because that's what it was made to do. Consistently, Jack has struggled against super dense substances.

Except reinforced steel constructs, which it effortlessly cuts through in waves.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

As did Raiden's sword. Raiden's sword cut through things much tougher than reinforced steel, such as splitting a Metal Gear RAY in two without even making full contact. The mass produced RAYS in MGS2 were exponentially weaker than the Desperado version, and stinger missiles couldn't even scratch their armor (Jack had to fire into their mouths)

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#26 Posted by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay said:

@nickzambuto said:

@frogdog said:

People forget that Jack's sword has defeated immortals and intangible beings

Episodes in question? I feel there's more context then that. In any case, it can fight supernatural beings because that's what it was made to do. Consistently, Jack has struggled against super dense substances.

Except reinforced steel constructs, which it effortlessly cuts through in waves.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

As did Raiden's sword. Raiden's sword cut through things much tougher than reinforced steel, such as splitting a Metal Gear RAY in two without even making full contact. The mass produced RAYS in MGS2 were exponentially weaker than the Desperado version, and stinger missiles couldn't even scratch their armor (Jack had to fire into their mouths)

I'm just saying, Jack only has a couple instances of him having issues cutting through nigh-indestructible opponents, though the only one that comes to mind is him against some robots designed exclusively to defeat him.

I have no votes one way or the other in this match.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#27 Posted by nickzambuto (13389 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay said:

@nickzambuto said:

@floopay said:

@nickzambuto said:

@frogdog said:

People forget that Jack's sword has defeated immortals and intangible beings

Episodes in question? I feel there's more context then that. In any case, it can fight supernatural beings because that's what it was made to do. Consistently, Jack has struggled against super dense substances.

Except reinforced steel constructs, which it effortlessly cuts through in waves.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

As did Raiden's sword. Raiden's sword cut through things much tougher than reinforced steel, such as splitting a Metal Gear RAY in two without even making full contact. The mass produced RAYS in MGS2 were exponentially weaker than the Desperado version, and stinger missiles couldn't even scratch their armor (Jack had to fire into their mouths)

I'm just saying, Jack only has a couple instances of him having issues cutting through nigh-indestructible opponents, though the only one that comes to mind is him against some robots designed exclusively to defeat him.

I have no votes one way or the other in this match.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

But the thing is, Raiden's High Frequency Blade is the SAME WAY. There has been nothing it could not cut through, it directly weakens the atomic bonds holding a substance together. Doktor even stated that, scientifically speaking, there is nothing a High Frequency Sword can not damage.

Featwise, the HF Sword has much better cutting feats. Just because Jack's sword was made by the Gods doesn't mean anything until it can split an MGRAY in half or cut rock and metal without making any contact.

All that said, Armstrong has a powerful healing factor and doesn't feel pain, so Jack is hardly gonna kill him with one move. The only way to kill Armstrong is by destroying his heart to stop the flow of nanomachines. Jack doesn't know about that, and even if he did, the Senator is much faster than the Samurai.

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#28 Edited by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay said:

@nickzambuto said:

@floopay said:

@nickzambuto said:

@frogdog said:

People forget that Jack's sword has defeated immortals and intangible beings

Episodes in question? I feel there's more context then that. In any case, it can fight supernatural beings because that's what it was made to do. Consistently, Jack has struggled against super dense substances.

Except reinforced steel constructs, which it effortlessly cuts through in waves.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

As did Raiden's sword. Raiden's sword cut through things much tougher than reinforced steel, such as splitting a Metal Gear RAY in two without even making full contact. The mass produced RAYS in MGS2 were exponentially weaker than the Desperado version, and stinger missiles couldn't even scratch their armor (Jack had to fire into their mouths)

I'm just saying, Jack only has a couple instances of him having issues cutting through nigh-indestructible opponents, though the only one that comes to mind is him against some robots designed exclusively to defeat him.

I have no votes one way or the other in this match.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

But the thing is, Raiden's High Frequency Blade is the SAME WAY. There has been nothing it could not cut through, it directly weakens the atomic bonds holding a substance together. Doktor even stated that, scientifically speaking, there is nothing a High Frequency Sword can not damage.

Featwise, the HF Sword has much better cutting feats. Just because Jack's sword was made by the Gods doesn't mean anything until it can split an MGRAY in half or cut rock and metal without making any contact.

All that said, Armstrong has a powerful healing factor and doesn't feel pain, so Jack is hardly gonna kill him with one move. The only way to kill Armstrong is by destroying his heart to stop the flow of nanomachines. Jack doesn't know about that, and even if he did, the Senator is much faster than the Samurai.

Again, I'm not making any statements one way or the other. Just clarifying that Jack hasn't ever really had issues cutting through things, except for one thing specifically designed against him, and he eventually cut through it.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#29 Edited by nickzambuto (13389 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay said:

@nickzambuto said:

@floopay said:

@nickzambuto said:

@floopay said:

@nickzambuto said:

@frogdog said:

People forget that Jack's sword has defeated immortals and intangible beings

Episodes in question? I feel there's more context then that. In any case, it can fight supernatural beings because that's what it was made to do. Consistently, Jack has struggled against super dense substances.

Except reinforced steel constructs, which it effortlessly cuts through in waves.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

As did Raiden's sword. Raiden's sword cut through things much tougher than reinforced steel, such as splitting a Metal Gear RAY in two without even making full contact. The mass produced RAYS in MGS2 were exponentially weaker than the Desperado version, and stinger missiles couldn't even scratch their armor (Jack had to fire into their mouths)

I'm just saying, Jack only has a couple instances of him having issues cutting through nigh-indestructible opponents, though the only one that comes to mind is him against some robots designed exclusively to defeat him.

I have no votes one way or the other in this match.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

But the thing is, Raiden's High Frequency Blade is the SAME WAY. There has been nothing it could not cut through, it directly weakens the atomic bonds holding a substance together. Doktor even stated that, scientifically speaking, there is nothing a High Frequency Sword can not damage.

Featwise, the HF Sword has much better cutting feats. Just because Jack's sword was made by the Gods doesn't mean anything until it can split an MGRAY in half or cut rock and metal without making any contact.

All that said, Armstrong has a powerful healing factor and doesn't feel pain, so Jack is hardly gonna kill him with one move. The only way to kill Armstrong is by destroying his heart to stop the flow of nanomachines. Jack doesn't know about that, and even if he did, the Senator is much faster than the Samurai.

Again, I'm not making any statements one way or the other. Just clarifying that Jack hasn't ever really had issues cutting through things, except for one thing specifically designed against him, and he eventually cut through it.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

I understand. I'm just pointing out, Raiden technically has a better track record in that case, because the only thing he couldn't cut in half, was Senator Steven Armstrong.

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#30 Posted by frogdog (3246 posts) - - Show Bio

Jack and the lava monster

Jack and the Gangsters

Episodes for the things I mentioned