Starkiller vs Joruus C'Baoth

Starkiller (Clone)

vs

Joruus C'Baoth

Rules:

• No sabers, this is just a battle of force power.
• In character.
• Random encounter.
• Both are at their primes.
• Fight takes place here:

Starkiller vs Joruus

Lightsaber skill 6/10

Form suitability 7/10

Form personal suitability 8/10

Form mastery 6/10

Offensive tactics 7/10

Defensive tactics 5/10

Balanced tactics 5/10

Precision 4/10

Balance 5/10

Lightsaber/melee strength 6/10

Combat speed 6/10

Movement speed 6/10

Reaction speed 5/10

Lightsaber design 5/10

Acrobatics 8/10

Force power overall 10/10

Force mastery overall 3/10

Telekinesis overall 10/10

Force defense 5/10

Mind trick overall 1/10

Sense 5/10

Advanced abilities 4/10

Force boosting generally 5/10

Light Side/Dark Side (if special Light or Dark Side abilities give someone advantage I count it here) 7/10

Force using speed 6/10

Pain tolerance 6/10

Endurance/stamina 8/10

Starkiller 176/300

Starkiller wins 5,8/10

Starkiller wins 5,8/10, close to 6/10, so majority is obvious.

Bump

Oh, this is a good one. Joruus is faster, a monstrous telepath and has very powerful lightning and no lightsabers is playing to his strengths. Starkiller's Barrier is extremely impressive though and I might call him a better telekinetic. Joruus wins as far as I can tell because Starkiller doesn't have mental resistance feats but other than that I call it a stalemate or Starkiller wins.

bump

One last bump

Joruus is faster and he can win through TP. All other areas go to Starkiller, so he would win unless Joruus gets off a Mind Control before Starkiller can attack.

That's a LOT of bumps for a thread made just a day ago. Anyways, I don't know too much about Joruus besides him being (I think) crackers. Some feats for him?

@reactor: http://www.comicvine.com/forums/off-topic-5/joruus-cbaoth-respect-thread-1576521/

@shootingnova How much telepathic resistance would you attribute to your typical force user? I was wondering about how raw force power and willpower affects a force-user's ability to resist mental assaults from other force users, mainly could a character with a talent for mental manipulation dominate a character in their own tier of force power (e.g Daegan Lok vs. Shaak Ti/Ventress) and if so could willpower protect a force user if the gap in power is only a tier ( Lok vs. Kenobi/Fisto). Would you consider the gap in power necessary to dominate another adept greater than the one necessary to ragdoll another, assuming the offending force-user has a affinity for mental manipulation (e.g Lok, C'boath, Xesh, Plo Koon).

I also wondered if high-level Jedi were capable of safely dominating lesser Sith, like if Luke were to simply use TP to cripple any groups of Sith he were to come across?

I have often read your and other Star Wars experts posts and any response would be appreciated.

That depends on a number of factors, and there is no "typical Force user". The "standard fodder Jedi", if you will, probably don't have much more will than most other humans. There are certain non-Force sensitives with more willpower than Force-sensitives, at times.

Some people are just more telepathically advanced than others. For instance, similarly powerful entities could easily overpower Corran Horn because of his telekinetic deficiency. As far as I know, there is nobody with a severe telepathic deficiency, but if there was one, and somebody in their general tier of Force power was incredibly powerful telepathically, then yes, they could be mentally dominated. That being said, I don't believe Daegan Lok would just overwhelm them with mental attacks.

The difference in power required for telekinetic ragdoll or telepathic domination is usually fairly similar, but again, there can always be variables.

It would likely be more for redeeming them than anything else, but if the gap is large enough, then yes, that's possible.

Either joruus wins by hitting him with TP or Starkiller blasts him off the face of the other, unfortunately this could go either way objectively.....I really hat that old windbag so I say Starkiller.

Joruus

@shootingnova Thanks for your response, it is greatly appreciated. :) Personally I've found the telepathically gifted more frightening than the telekinetically so, although yes most fights are decided by telekinesis and sabers I'd opt for telepathic strength however purely because I would be paranoid against telepathic compulsion.

Anyways, thanks for you excellent response!

@alphaq: It is worth noting, as Nova mentioned, that there can be different variables, and actually, they come into play very often, although they aren't exactly variables. Multiple powers are very personal, like those deriving of Memory Walk utilized by Wyyrlok for example. Many forms of mental influence operate, obviously, on some more specific parts of someone's mentality. They bring up one's memories, they target specific weaknesses of personality. It's not just sheer, measurable willpower contest, it's consisting of different facets of mental self-awareness and focus, in many prolonged cases it has much to do with general mental endurance.

@jkbart Thanks for your explanation it is both appreciated and helpful. You and Nova have given me something to think about and you both have my gratitude.

@alphaq: Well mental influence is much more subtle and at times can be more potent than telekinetic influence. It usually takes longer to enact TP than TK, but depending on the scenario the reward could be much more satisfying.

@shootingnova Would you still give C'Baoth a fighting chance in light of TP's speed disadvantage to TK?

I think that TP is just more elegant, like that time when Lok defeated a Jedi woman by making her believe she was on fire which is much safer than confronting someone physically and using Mind Twist on that other Jedi, which strikes me as much more useful than being able to dominate then with a crude Force Grip. Although I now understand TP is a double-edged sword and can easily backfire. Still though most Jedi focus on conventional powers and would be put off balance by TP.

Toss up in my opinion.

C'baoth is faster (moved faster than Luke Skywalker, among other feats), and can mentally dominate Starkiller if he tries (he has has affected both Mara and Luke Skywalker with seemingly minimal effort) and his lightning could also do damage (he has wrecked both Luke and Mara with Lightning)

But Starkiller TK is a couple notches above Joruus terms of TK, and his Barrier is one of the best in Star Wars. His lightning is also very power as it has turned being into ashes.

Both has their ways they can win, and lose. Even split to me.

@alphaq: Well, to be honest, I'm not aware of many TP feats on Starkiller's part, other than some basic abilities like Mind Trick, as well as creating phantoms of a sort, which is decent.

C'boath has the edge of actually being faster in general, and it seems that the TP disparity is sufficient for him to just overwhelm Starkiller.

TP can be more dangerous than TK at times, yes.

Starkiller

Joruus > post RotJ Luke > RotJ Luke >/= RotJ Vader > ESB Vader >>>> ANH Vader > TFUII Vader >/= SK

Joruus

Joruus wins even in a proper encounter. Starkiller doesn't even have sabers here so he's lost his one advantage

How powerful is he? I am not much familiar with him but what has he done that is above Starkiller/TFU Sidious?

@eredin12: Joruus has statements and feats putting him at ROTJ Sidious/Vader level, and even above Post-ROTJ Luke.

"According to Luke Skywalker, the duplicate C'baoth was easily as formidable a foe as Darth Vader and completely twisted to the dark side of the Force."

- Thrawn Trilogy Sourcebook

--

"But Master C’baoth was a lot more powerful than I was. Maybe it was different with him.”

- Luke Skywalker, Dark Force Rising

--

"Mara jerked back as the piercing sound cut through her ears- and an instant later nearly fell over the guardrail as the Force equivalent of the scream slammed into her. It was like nothing she’d ever experienced before; not from Vader, not from the Emperor himself."

- The Last Command

@redsithdisciple: I see ,fair enough. Thanks for clarification.

@eredin12: No problem

@eredin12: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/zapan871/blog/joruus-cbaoth-respect-thread/129836/

@frozen: TFU 2 Vader is not >/= SK. Starkiller , when he fought Vader at the end, was literally so exhausted that he was barely even standing. It was even noted that he was moredrained/exhausted then he'd ever been at any point in his life prior to that:

"The tips of his lightsabers shook. He had never felt so exhausted, at every level of his being.”

-- The Force Unleashed II.

This includes an instances where he was so drained/ weakened that he struggled with things he would normally do with ease. And even then, he still matched and in the end defeated Vader. In fact, reason he was weakened, is because, among other things, he turned all of his clones to paste, clones stated to be able to overpower Vader had they turned on him. I do think that Vader eventually reached SK level, by the time of ESB/ROTJ, but that was not by the time of TFU2.

Good thread.