" @comicdude23: I don't see anything about the hulk throwing punches with trillions of tons behind it, and this is savage hulk. And when your talking about the black hole are you talking about when he saved silver surfer, namor and strange in the defenders series? "
i think it was another showing, not sure i saw the scan before, and anyway, speed won't matter, being able to tagg Thor shows speed doesn't ALWAYS matter "
@comicdude23: When have you ever seen thor use any style of fighting, besides hitting with his hammer and using his brute strength. I know Thor has fighting experience, I also know we never see him use it. He sticks to slug fests, and not skill, for the majority of his fights and all of them against hulk. Like I said, wonder man was winning against hulk because of his fighting skill, and his degree of super strength. Starfire can do the same.
" @comicdude23: When have you ever seen thor use any style of fighting, besides hitting with his hammer and using his brute strength. I know Thor has fighting experience, I also know we never see him use it. He sticks to slug fests, and not skill, for the majority of his fights and all of them against hulk. Like I said, wonder man was winning against hulk because of his fighting skill, and his degree of super strength. Starfire can do the same."
everyone underrates his fighting skill, he isn't a brute, he has exp, and name me some strength feats Kory has done, Thor uses what he can angainst Hulk, and as i said, he has higher durability (rapid healing factor), stronger and can hit harder
@comicdude23: Yes he has the experience but he doesn't use it most of thor's fights he make's a punching contest.Starfire should be more skilled then him.Let's see it took donna and mon-el to hold her back, her skill is so good she won a contest against the amazons on there island,with it said her skill rivaled diana, she went nova and destroyed Brainiac 8's ship, and then blitzed her.She took a blitz from wonder woman. She knocked out Cassie with one starbolt, One shotted a wonder woman clone Trigon had created.
" @comicdude23: Yes he has the experience but he doesn't use it most of thor's fights he make's a punching contest.Starfire should be more skilled then him.Let's see it took donna and mon-el to hold her back, her skill is so good she won a contest against the amazons on there island,with it said her skill rivaled diana, she went nova and destroyed Brainiac 8's ship, and then blitzed her.She took a blitz from wonder woman. She knocked out Cassie with one starbolt, One shotted a wonder woman clone Trigon had created."
1) Thor>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Starfire 2) Mon El and Donna wern't trying with all their force, they wernt trying to smash her, just restrain her 3) she didn't beat Diana 4) ok 5) Cassie=human 6) WW clone=weaker than real version
listen, he is stronger, more durable and can hit harder, Starfire's hits won't cause him amazing pain, and read the scan i gave you with Hulk hitting with 100 trillion tons of force, and i found this, is it old???
@comicdude23: Thor hasn't shown anything to be on Starfire's level of hand to hand.They were trying to stop her from going anywhere and they were having a difficult time of it. Cassie at the time when she was knocked out by the star bolt, she had gotten I beleive half of are's powers, so I wouldn't say human.
He doesn't punch and can't lift a trillion tons, the scan makes no mention of him hitting with a trillion tons of force. And that scan with the mountain happens to be hulk's biggest strength feat, at 150 billion tons, and he struggled even saying he can't hold it for long, and is only bracing it, basically balancing it on his back.
@comicdude23: What feats? I'vee debunked your asteroid, your secret war mountain, your supposed black hole.The high end feats aren't really working. And the scan it show's showed his son pumping up with the old power, not hulk himself.
@comicdude23: Yes thor could but this is starfire vs the hulk, which as it is she's much more skilled then savage hulk. She's much faster, she's strong enough to be able to stagger him. It'd be a good fight not like how you and a good majority claims it's a mismatch.
@comicdude23: It doesn't matter the one pictured in the OP is the savage hulk, she can take him with superior skill, speed, and her starbolts. Especially if she doesn't hold back.
Starfire is in a class with wonder woman. The fact that she can fly and has speed on hulk i think she could handle more then a few punches while dishing out more then a few as well. Also when she gets mad she is even stronger and tends not to hold back. I will give this to hulk but it won't be a landslide victory. it would be a pretty close match imo.
" Starfire is in a class with wonder woman. The fact that she can fly and has speed on hulk i think she could handle more then a few punches while dishing out more then a few as well. Also when she gets mad she is even stronger and tends not to hold back. I will give this to hulk but it won't be a landslide victory. it would be a pretty close match imo. "
Wonderwoman can't even pull a planet by herself, what makes you think she can even take down the Hulk. And you're equating her to superman who also couldn't pull it by himself. Hulk has been hit and the numbers show the weight of an entire multiplied by anything you could even show any of the DC people producing with physical strength. And Able to give as good as he gets. How about you actually prove how strong your characters are let's see some strength post. Or Starfire being a a Team breaker, not one of those crappy dc lowlevel street gang groups, Avengers, FF4, X-men elite groups. When you can pull those up then you can compare strength.
@blacharrt: Ok and where have you proven the hulks strength?I just think you've mentioned him survivng a blow from the old power skaar, he's been knocked out by far less.I mean we all know Hulk is stronger then her, no one's argued that.
@blacharrt: bc when diana goes into a serious battle she takes her battle armor, made by the gods could slice superman open. grant it bc he is vulnerable to magic but not any more vulnerable then any other human being. point being this is a fight. forget these stupid arse feats. bc this isn't a planet pushing contest this is a fight. hulk is big bad and strong. but he is also super bulky and slow. Diana is fast presice and strong. diana who hasnt moved or destroyed planets by just staring at them can fight superman on ever standing who is one of DCU's strongest. that being said starfire can hang with wonder woman and pretty much has the same fighting style and atttributes as diana (fast presice and strong) therefore if she fought hulk it wouldnt be hulk beating her up the whole time. im sorry thats not the way fights go just bc u want them too. =)
" Starfire is in a class with wonder woman. The fact that she can fly and has speed on hulk i think she could handle more then a few punches while dishing out more then a few as well. Also when she gets mad she is even stronger and tends not to hold back. I will give this to hulk but it won't be a landslide victory. it would be a pretty close match imo. "
Wonderwoman can't even pull a planet by herself, what makes you think she can even take down the Hulk. And you're equating her to superman who also couldn't pull it by himself. Hulk has been hit and the numbers show the weight of an entire multiplied by anything you could even show any of the DC people producing with physical strength. And Able to give as good as he gets. How about you actually prove how strong your characters are let's see some strength post. Or Starfire being a a Team breaker, not one of those crappy dc lowlevel street gang groups, Avengers, FF4, X-men elite groups. When you can pull those up then you can compare strength. "
Starfire went Nova and destroyed a Braniac ship that was beating all of the Titans and the Teen Titans combined.......
" Starfire is in a class with wonder woman. The fact that she can fly and has speed on hulk i think she could handle more then a few punches while dishing out more then a few as well. Also when she gets mad she is even stronger and tends not to hold back. I will give this to hulk but it won't be a landslide victory. it would be a pretty close match imo. "
Wonderwoman can't even pull a planet by herself, what makes you think she can even take down the Hulk. And you're equating her to superman who also couldn't pull it by himself. Hulk has been hit and the numbers show the weight of an entire multiplied by anything you could even show any of the DC people producing with physical strength. And Able to give as good as he gets. How about you actually prove how strong your characters are let's see some strength post. Or Starfire being a a Team breaker, not one of those crappy dc lowlevel street gang groups, Avengers, FF4, X-men elite groups. When you can pull those up then you can compare strength. "
Starfire went Nova and destroyed a Braniac ship that was beating all of the Titans and the Teen Titans combined....... "
Teen titans and the outsiders you mean, and right after that she blitzed Brainiac 8.
" Starfire is in a class with wonder woman. The fact that she can fly and has speed on hulk i think she could handle more then a few punches while dishing out more then a few as well. Also when she gets mad she is even stronger and tends not to hold back. I will give this to hulk but it won't be a landslide victory. it would be a pretty close match imo. "
Wonderwoman can't even pull a planet by herself, what makes you think she can even take down the Hulk. And you're equating her to superman who also couldn't pull it by himself. Hulk has been hit and the numbers show the weight of an entire multiplied by anything you could even show any of the DC people producing with physical strength. And Able to give as good as he gets. How about you actually prove how strong your characters are let's see some strength post. Or Starfire being a a Team breaker, not one of those crappy dc lowlevel street gang groups, Avengers, FF4, X-men elite groups. When you can pull those up then you can compare strength. "
Starfire went Nova and destroyed a Braniac ship that was beating all of the Titans and the Teen Titans combined....... "
Teen titans and the outsiders you mean, and right after that she blitzed Brainiac 8. "
Sentry SpeedBlitzing Hulk, when Hulk doesn't want to fight him. Hulk Won
@wallywest55
said:
" @blacharrt: bc when diana goes into a serious battle she takes her battle armor, made by the gods could slice superman open. grant it bc he is vulnerable to magic but not any more vulnerable then any other human being. point being this is a fight. forget these stupid arse feats. bc this isn't a planet pushing contest this is a fight. hulk is big bad and strong. but he is also super bulky and slow. Diana is fast presice and strong. diana who hasnt moved or destroyed planets by just staring at them can fight superman on ever standing who is one of DCU's strongest. that being said starfire can hang with wonder woman and pretty much has the same fighting style and atttributes as diana (fast presice and strong) therefore if she fought hulk it wouldnt be hulk beating her up the whole time. im sorry thats not the way fights go just bc u want them too. =) "
Olympia gods are far weaker than Asgardian gods. So Diana can put on her special Armor all she likes, it would do nothing to the Hulk who still beats the stuffing out of Thor. Which he was able to do when Thor was even in his Savage mode. All humans are very vulnerable to Magic, you're trying to downplay is vulnerability to it like it's nothing, and that's why comparing fights from one person to another for DC people is flawed. Hulk has the Same durability regardless of magic. Calling him super bulky and slow is a misconception, Hulk can move as fast as his muscle will allow and the ground beneath him can support the force he is putting out. It's the very reason hulk maximum speed cannot be calculated, and the reason he Leaps. But you're talking about actual movement. He was able to punch Sentry who was blitzing him at the time squarely in the face. Also his speed increases with his anger. Clearly you need to learn more about Hulk. Hulk has extrasensory abilities that allow him to Hit his targets regardless of how fast they are. Again you're comparing Kory with WW, which means nothing. Hulk has been in countless battle with every Marvel character you can think of, and even some of the villians as well. Starfire and WW together are not beating him. Thor, Sentry, Hercules, Avengers, FF4, X-men. Gladiator, all been beaten to a pulp by the Hulk. Starfire would be a good fight for she-hulk. Hulk would beat all three of them hands down. So once again, you keep saying Hulk is slow, but Hulk can be as fast as he needs to be because his speed BFR with anger, Strength wise, you haven't shown one feat on Starfire's behalf that has matched anything Hulk has done strength wise. Starfire still loses, regardless if she can hit WW or not. Batman can hit WW. your scale for judging strength in DC is a little skewed there. So you're saying by proxy that Batman is as strong as Hulk because WW is second strongest to Superman,, But Grund is stronger than them both because he beat them both superman and ww....... etc. See the flaw in that logic, show some feats please.
Notice hulk Dodge Mjolnir Thor is left in the wake of distruction Hulk is bored and leaves.
Starfire is just gonna go try to take him on with her fists like she did Grundy,And looked what happened with him,she got KOed and Grundy is officially weaker than the Hulk. So I'm going with Hulk.
Hulk wins this fight. Just one question how can Starfire fly and fight when she needs to think of happy thing to fly to me that is just silly.
"
i agree, they are asking for Hulk strength feats and haven't provided one Starfire that shows anything. But they want feats i'll give it to them. Keeping Planet Skaar from ripping apart with his Barehands. Strength Can not be Measured! Able to Catch a Chi Powered Punch with his Barehands. Able to Break Doom's Forcefield. Strength is limitless, Durability confirmed Dog of War is able to Crush Adamantium in 7.3 second but can't breaks the Hulk's Neck. Now show me any of Starfire's that compares
Does Thor have any martial skill whatsoever? Or does he just have thousands of years of experience swinging and throwing a hammer? If he does have MA training, does he ever use it?
@Nefarious said:
"Starfire has no way of defeating Hulk and plus she can't even beat Deathstroke, whom Hulk can beat. "
Starfire would incinerate Deathstroke in a straight battle...........
" looking at this now, the debate has changed, Hulk wins, but Thor only loses because he holds back "
Not true, thor fought professor hulk thinking he was maestro, Thor used his rage mode to Fight who he thought was maestro, not holding back. Thor could not pull out a win, Hulk ended that match by saving thor's life by hitting him out of the way of a Gamma bomb. @velle37 said:
" @blacharrt
Does Thor have any martial skill whatsoever? Or does he just have thousands of years of experience swinging and throwing a hammer? If he does have MA training, does he ever use it?
@Nefarious
said:
"Starfire has no way of defeating Hulk and plus she can't even beat Deathstroke, whom Hulk can beat. "
Starfire would incinerate Deathstroke in a straight battle........... "
He is a highly trained Asgardian warrior, so yes. Thor has been highly regard in h2h combat, i'm not sure if someone already answered this or not. He isn't as good as Hercules in grappling but he is very skilled. With weapons he is better.
@blacharrt: Ok you've shown his strength feats,there is also a huge list of people and some even weaker then starfire who have knocked hulk out, starfires best feat is fiighting Brainiac 8 in the insiders crossover who when she went nova destroyed her ship and blitzed and was beating her senseless until she was caught by surprise. Which is impressive considering Brainiac 8 was beating young justice and the titans while injured.
Also only the animated starfire has to think happy thoughts to fly.
@nightwing91: yeah all the other version of Hulk, that is true, that Whole weakness thing is true.. All of those feats were done by a weaker version of Hulk than WWH except for the stopping the planet skaar from being destroyed with his barehands. The only person who really beatup Hulk really good was ZomStrange everyone else lost, and ZS still lost. Starfire doesn't have that kind of power. I haven't read the Chaoswars where ZS and Hulk rematched.
Well you actually check out the thor series for those where he is actually in Asgard. I have read some of his stuff, but I don't really care for thor to read too much off him. I do enjoy the avengers, and x-men more so.
@blacharrt: Which I haven't seen Thor resort to his grappling,he mostly uses his strength and to me he seems like he lacks hand to hand skill. Starfire on the other hand was trained by the Warlords of Okara, now if you want there's scans of hulk being beaten or struggling with people with actual hand to hand combat skill.
@comicdude23: Just wondering what does that add to the debate?
" @blacharrt: Which I haven't seen Thor resort to his grappling,he mostly uses his strength and to me he seems like he lacks hand to hand skill. Starfire on the other hand was trained by the Warlords of Okara, now if you want there's scans of hulk being beaten or struggling with people with actual hand to hand combat skill.
@comicdude23: Just wondering what does that add to the debate? "
Thor>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Starfire
and Hulk's trademark line should never be questioned, exp and fighting skill doesn't mean everything, Ras Al Ghul has 600 yearsof exp, and that doesn't stop Bruce Wayne from kicking his a$$
" @blacharrt: Which I haven't seen Thor resort to his grappling,he mostly uses his strength and to me he seems like he lacks hand to hand skill. Starfire on the other hand was trained by the Warlords of Okara, now if you want there's scans of hulk being beaten or struggling with people with actual hand to hand combat skill.
@comicdude23: Just wondering what does that add to the debate? "
There is a pantheon challenge where Thor and the other 3 mighty warriors of Asgard have to get sheep from Hercules... I'm not making this up. I don't recall the actual series number, but He had to best Hercules without using magic. Thor was losing in the Grappling badly and ended up calling down a lighting bolt.
Starfire could be trained by all the warlords in the galaxy, it would not rival the amount of fighting the Hulk has done throughout his incarnations. And current hulk is the product of that, plus much smarter than Starfire. She would not beat him.
@blacharrt: So the current Hulk, has fighting skill that put's him on the same fighting level as Amazons? Starfire, won a fighting tournament on paradise island, and her skill was likened to Wonder woman, he's not more skilled then her. The skill and flying is what I'm saying makes it a close fight with it being able to go either way. And what's different about the current hulk I haven't really read to much of him since red hulk was introduced it killed my interest in the characters.
"@velle37: you know Thor would destory Starfire with ease, but Thor only loses to Hulk because he HOLDS BACK, do you agree? "
Personally i think Thor loses to Hulk only because of Marvel hulk-wankery..... But that's just me......... If Thor is so powerful, has these supposed MA skills...... Along with flight, his supposed speed, and a mystical hammer....... He shouldn't lose the giant, green, jumping, smashing brute......... Makes no sesne........ But eh....... What's to be expected of comics?............ "
@blacharrt: was it this fight? cause if it was ill have to dig up the rest of my scans cause thor i believe was depowered and it says it in the scan he was almost depowered
" @blacharrt: was it this fight? cause if it was ill have to dig up the rest of my scans cause thor i believe was depowered and it says it in the scan he was almost depowered "
Where thor went into rage mode, that looks about right.
@comicdude23: Well at one point he beat the Hulk too, but Hulk like Surfer would prove to be more dominate after that first encounter. Well if you count a win as reverting him back to Banner.
" @comicdude23: Well at one point he beat the Hulk too, but Hulk like Surfer would prove to be more dominate after that first encounter. "
I don't feel Red Hulk should be beating the Surfer, he is one of the most powerful cosmic beings in Marvel "
Yeah a lot of people feel that way, But you have to remember that in the EM spectrum Gamma, and Cosmic very close together in wavelength and power. It's not out of the realm of possibility he could win, but I don't think it should be highly likely especially with Surfer's powerset. But the fact that he can absorb energies makes him very deadly to anyone using it.
Found it" Warrior Madness" Incredible Hulk 440: Clearly gave in to his maddness and was trying to actively kill the Hulk
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