Star Wars vs. Warhammer 30,000 (pre-heresy)

The Imperium of Man invades the Outer Rim and starts to make a push for the Core Worlds.

The Galactic Alliance responds in force.

Who wins?

Any weapons, military units, and vehicles/ships can be used that were available at said times.

So... The Great Crusade, with the Emperor and all the Primarchs leading the way... I hope everyone in the Star Wars universe likes speaking Gothic.

If Force Users and Psychers are involved, WH40K stomps.

If they are not involved, Star Wars takes it.

@savagekelley any reason why, weapons/vehicles that would be effective against star wars or vice versa

IMHO, the Galactic Empire just barely takes it against post-heresy IoM with the God-Emperor as a corpse and stuff. But a healthy God-Emperor? And all Primarchs? And no Chaos Gods to dick it up (though they'd probably fuck over the GE just as much as the Imperium, anyway)? Yeah, the Imperium of Man wins.

They'd have hundreds of thousands space marines (a low end number) who would strike at command centers, ship yards, morale locations with brutal efficiency.

Where ever SW tried to show up for a proper fight, the countless billions of the Imperial Army would drown them, their armor would crush them and the Titans would make them swear fealty to the God Emperor, who walks among them. A guy who can stop time, spawn a multi-system warp storm and spawned a 70,000 light year beacon for his empire to be guided by.

Then's there the countless ships that make up their navy, whose smallest ships are almost star destroyer size. And these same ships blow up planets in salvos, no Death Star needed.

@savagekelley yes but you realize how long it takes for them to travel across their own galaxy from sector to sector. It took a whole fleet 40 weeks to go to the outer edge of the galaxy to Nikea. While any Star Wars ship can traverse the galaxy in a week or less, so Star Wars could jump in, harass, and leave anywhere in the galaxy.The Galactic Alliance has hundreds of Jedi which could easily go toe to toe with space marines. Mandolorians would be heavily utilized, mass reactive rounds can't punch through Besk'garm, plus destructors could disentigrate space marine ceramite easily.

In space I agree that one of the only threats to the Imperium of Man would be super stardestroyers, there would be hundreds of these. Plus they would have the Sun Crusher which makes any star go nova, along with Centerpoint station which destroys whole fleets of ships across space, Plus on the ground World Devastator vs Space Marines equals no contest. The only honest way I see Titans being taken down is with a baridium bomb or a bombing run. Stormies and Galactic Alliance soldiers are the equal to Imperium soldiers. Along with AT-AT's one shot one kill for almost any armor, besides titans, the Imperium has.

Also fun fact, after the Yuuzhan Vong war it was said that 325 trillion beings had been killed, which means that while the Imperium has billions Star Wars has Trillions that would fight against them, sorry Star Wars has the numbers on this one.

So, you admit that in space most of the ships the SW universe can put forward would be of no real threat then say they could use their speed advantage to harass. Harass how, exactly? When they show up at near point blank range relative to WH30K (check out Battlefleet Gothic to see the size of ships and ranges they generally fight across) the entire time they're waiting for their computers to plot an exit route, their ships would be getting hit with weapons that crack open planets. I don't know what wankfest the EU has turned into, but nothing I ever saw or read is going to survive that level of firepower.

I think it's a stretch to try to equal a Jedi to a space marine, but let's just say they're a wash. Now, what exactly are the other hundreds of thousands (again, a low end figure) of marines going to do? Sit around? And while they may not have sanctioned Librarians there are still marines possessing psyker powers. Even if you wanted to say that it was THESE marines the Jedi are paired against, they still lose out to numbers. Also, marines and the IA carry a whole host of weaponry, so even if some SW armor proved immune to bolters (which I doubt), it's not like they would just sit there and reflect on their life while they wait for death to come to them.

The Imperium is home to trillions of humans and abhumans. Of those, countless billions serve their Emperor (sometimes willingly, sometimes not). To think that civilian casualty figures transfer directly to an effective fighting force (seeing as they wouldn't have equipment, training, discipline or leadership) is a long shot at best.

40k

@savagekelley What I meant by citing the 325 trillion deaths, a good amount of those figures were soldiers of the Galactic Alliance. Also I did point out the super weapons that existed around this time, the suncrusher is indestructible and very quick, and lets just say for example that an Imperium of Man fleet, I have a host of books on the Heresy and post Heresy so I know the capabilities of marines, titans, and ships, just bombarded a planet into submission. No life in that sector exists, the Suncrusher makes the star go nova, wiping out any primarch, space marines, titans, and any other piece of war on those ships.

What I meant by saying that star destoryers, and other cruisers of its tonnage wouldn't be dangerous to the Gothic fleets I was referring to the retribution class destroyers, and battle barges of the space marines. Imperium frigates would be an equal to most star wars cruisers and their fighter escorts. As to the other space marines fighting on the ground, they will be facing armor, AT-AT's/AT-ST's that will easily crush them, along with heavy laser turrets, repulsor speeders armed with heavy laser cannons. Since Warhammer fleets are pushing into the Star Wars galaxy it is feasible to think that replenishing lost space marines would not be easy. Also Star Wars has planetary shields that will be proof against heavy orbital bombardment, along with planetary ion cannons, and heavy turbolasers. Stormies also have heavy laser rifles and thermal detonators that can take out space marines.

Pre Heresy Imperium was a nigh unstoppable force.

Imo Magnus the Red & His legion alone would cause untold problems for SW add the other Primarchs, Legions, Imperial Navy, Imperial Army, Sisters of Silence, Officio Assassinourum, Adeptus Mechanicus,the Emperor etc etc & imo Warhammer takes this encouter.

This is a horrible stomp.

GEOM solos.

No they don't, the Imperium has 3-6 quadrillion people, not counting the orks who span multiple galaxies and the tyranids who have consumed at least 12 galaxies. And many other species. Numbers would be about equal, but Star Wars is united and 40k isn't.

So what no one has taken into account is nearly every ship pre-Heresy has Exterminatus capability. Also, if the IoM deploys cannon fodder and gets report of massive resistance, can simply virus bomb planet. What's a few million Imperial Guard lives? Nothing. Also, Titans are air-sealed and can survive the virus and the lance batteries that follow. SW simply has nothing that durable.

Imperium.

@eisenfauste: you do realize Billions is the average number for a single City Spire on a single planet? Planets can hold as many seven city spires. Then you have the millions of worlds with several billion on average on them. That outnumbers Star Wars by a lot. Another fun fact, galactic empire is not trillions, at all. If this is galactic empire then you should not be counting the trillions of species or self contain planets not associated with the Galactic Empire army that the Vong killed anyway.

1+ year after, my opinion is the same.

lol

@sirfizzwhizz: I have a different opinion than from a year ago but to be honest the imperium didn't have the numbers in 30,000 that they do in 40,000.

All yes, very true. Also did not realize till now how old that post is lol.

@sirfizzwhizz: It happens lol.

In this case, quality>Quantity

The primarchs and the empy can solo without that many issues.

@pierpat: No they couldn't. GEOM maybe, but not the primarchs.

Oh, it's my usual mistake, sorry

I meant Empy+Primarchs, not the emperor or every primarch(i misuse "solo" a lot, i know)

Warhammer no doubt.

Whenever someone debates 40K vs whatever, I have to bring up the question. What makes the imperium stronger? I mean specifically.

@newvamp: warhammer 40k has over a few hundred novels publish on it's lore, dozens of comics, several video games, and tons of rules books with lore. All of it canon according to Games Workshop.

So what makes them better? Look at the well establish lore and find out.

@sirfizzwhizzYou didn't answer my question. What makes Warhammer 40K characters more powerful?

@newvamp: Space Marines are more durable than your average soldier. Their ships put out gigatons or so of damage and can soak equal amounts of damage. 30k has at least thousands of heavy class capital ships. They also have billions of troops and so on with weapons that put out triple digit megajoules of damage. Stuff like that.

I can cite specific examples if you want.

@eisenfauste:Of course Space Marines are more powerful than your average soldier. But that is also running off of the assumption that their power armor can handle the weaponry of the Star Wars universe. At that point, that requires an analysis. How do you know that a las cannon is more powerful than a blaster cannon? Hell, the one on the AT-AT could very well be more powerful than a Gauss cannon, but that's a frivolous comparison without actual measurements.

Gigatons more of damage you say? Again, that is something that needs to be measured. If we compared something like the exterminatus vs a death star, well then that's really the only thing I could say that can be compared. With that said, yes the exterminatus fleet has more numbers, but I doubt it has the best ship to ship capabilities. If they did, then the Tau sphere of influence would not keep growing and I suspect that these inquisitorial ships get destroyed by technologically superior fleets. (Or in other words, everyone except the Orks and Nids)

dunno

@newvamp: Well their power armor could handle blaster rifles like E-11 type of shots but I doubt it could hold up very well against several shots of a heavy blaster or a blaster turret etc. I believe las cannons are comparable to different types of star wars blast cannons as well. The damage output from them isn't too different from what I've read.

No I did cite that is has gigatons worth of damage it could possibly put out with lance arrays. Star Wars is more than capable of putting out gigatons of damage as well so in space I would say it would be a range game, or numbers game between the two.

@newvamp: most ships from Strike Cruiser and above have warheads or las power enough to bust planets or wipe out all life on the surface.

Las Gun has more fire power than the standard blaster. Bolters are mini RPG guns.

Power armor by lore can withstand anti tank rounds depending where hit, and the great against heat base weapons due to being Ceremic made like their starships. In lore they tank Missils explosions crawling out of the craters at times.

Gauss Rifles on a side note are molecule destroying weapons, that by pass Power Armour with no issues.

Then you have to add in the fact of Paykers vs Force Users, and honestly Psykers in general win as the most powerful force users, like Luke or Palpatine are children by feats to beings like Magnus, Emperor, and a handful of others.

The only thing SW is superior in is communication and travel speed of their fleets. Even that is somewhat negated by the unique benefits of Warp travel as well though.

Most of what I listed is basic. I have not hit the more advance, exotic, or powerful weapons/abilities the Imperium possess.

I for one believe a united SW galaxy would do well vs the Imperium of Man, but he Primarchs, and Emperor really make this one sided. Overall 40k is a very top notch and crazy powerful fictional lore.