Star Wars vs Star Trek

" @erik said:

" @AtPhantom:  I believe Data said that the damage to the cube was all superficial.  "

I believe it was more like "massive damage to outer hull" or something like that. Either way, he certainly said "Massive power fluctuation" Meaning the cube was losing control of its power supply. That's heavy damage. "

" @erik said:

" @AtPhantom:  I believe Data said that the damage to the cube was all superficial.  "

I believe it was more like "massive damage to outer hull" or something like that. Either way, he certainly said "Massive power fluctuation" Meaning the cube was losing control of its power supply. That's heavy damage. "

" I'm not too confident of it being a close call, without that particular bit of power of the plot through Picard, they simply would not have fired at that area and would probably been destroyed.  Theres no denying they where doing damage, it was pretty much everything the Federation had along with help from various other species blasting away at the cube.   For the life of I can't remember what Data said on how much damage those things can take and still operate. "

"Hmm... I stand corrected. It has been too long since First Contact has sat in my DVD player. But IIRC the cube was obliterating the fleet.  "

 
 
"Without Picard the fleet would have kept punching little holes in the cube until one of them went down. Both sides still had a lot of fight in them. It most certainly wasn't everything the Federation had. The fleet numbered about 60 ships. Starfleet operates more than a thousand vessels, and no other species were involved in the conflict. 
 
Memory alpha says the Cube can remain operative even if 78% is destroyed. This is just an estimate, and wasn't made by Data. Never been proven.
 
@erik said:

"Hmm... I stand corrected. It has been too long since First Contact has sat in my DVD player. But IIRC the cube was obliterating the fleet.  "

It was. But unlike Wolf 359, the Fleet was biting back. "

" @Hellos:  Okay, so my mind inserted massive. :P Power Fluctuation still means the cube's power supply was damaged. That means it's not just skin deep or anything. "

" Then again I guess your right about the ship numbers considering they did wrack up their numbers for the Dominion War, althouth one wonders why they wouldn't much more ships to make sure one of the more important planets in the Federation didn't get taken over.  
Could have sworn the Romulans and Klingons sent some ships in, although I guess I might be confusing that with Wolf 359. "

" Thats thing about the cubes, essentially all the vital systems are spread across the ship while packing a regenerating outer haul.  They are tough to take down, but do I agree the Federation fleet was making a dent into, which allow for the exploitation of that achilles heel. "

If we get to use all characters from the two respective universes, I say Star Trek. 

"Same reason why the Borg sent just one cube. Most likely, the writers haven't yet decided how many ships the Federation has. That or those were the only ships in the quadrant. That seems to happen a lot in Star Trek. :P

Then all of its power supplies were damaged. Which is actually consistent with being bombarded across all of its surface by the fleet, which they were doing before Picard took over. "

"I don't know, the plot general always has them send one cube for some godly unknown reason. You've seen the Borg send a hell of a lot more to other worlds to assimilate them, but for some reason against the Federation one's good enough. We already know the Borg have plenty of ships and certainly a rediculous amount of drones, I honestly don't see the harm in them sending two cubes just to make sure.  "

" I wouldn't say all of them, but if the power grid was fluctuating, then I assume the Federation did get a few good hits there and there. Thats the point of having all their systems spread out, so they still always have something lieing around.  I think I might have to what Q Who to remember exactly how much punishment a cube can take and not go down. I believe that's the episode Data says how much damage said cube can take before shutting down. "

"It's PIS, plain and simple. The entirety of First contact, for all its awesomeness, was pure PIS. 
 
Q who also had one Federation ship doing massive damage to the cube, to the point where they both had a stand off for repairs. LOL "

" @AtPhantom said:

"It's PIS, plain and simple. The entirety of First contact, for all its awesomeness, was pure PIS. 
 
Q who also had one Federation ship doing massive damage to the cube, to the point where they both had a stand off for repairs. LOL "

That I would have to agree with, the first time they sent over a cube, that was maybe more acceptable because they knew how much the Federation's tech simply did not compare (Tractor beams own Federation shields), the second though they probably sould have played it safe with two cubes.  Now I don't remember that lol. All I can remember is I believe Q sending them over to say hi to cube, having said cube cut the Enterprise D's haul and take a chunk of it crew members and all up to the ship, them blasting a Borg Drone in engineering and not too much after that. "

The 78% thing was an estimate commander (?) Shelby came up with in Best of Both Worlds Pt 1

"There was a fight, and Enterprise did substantial damage to the cube and the two had a standoff, long enough for an away team to beam over and gather intel on the borg. Then they kept fighting and the Enterprise was outmatched, forcing Q's intervention.  Also, let's not get started on the stupidity of the time travel scheme. "

"The 78% thing was an estimate commander Shelby came up with in Best of Both Worlds Pt 1 "

" @Xan said:

" Even 1 borg cube would destroy multyple starwars ships .. hell i am ready to beat 1 tactical borg cube can take on multyple executor type ships with no problem ...  The borg has asimilated the Ablative armor and transphasic torpedoes that Cpt Janeway got from the future in Voyager finale...   Hell the borg alone would have no problem asimilating the SW galaxy. When you ignore the plot armour that humanity has when the borg come for you they fill the solar system with borg cubes. The borg can also time travel back in time to destroy the humans before they get into space ...  SW fans keep trowing around stuff like SW has better weapon bla bla bla but 9 ships from species 8472 can do the same thing the damn Death Star can ... Better fire power my but. "

Come on. The Borg are not invincible. First contact showed that if you shovel enough fire power into a cube, it goes down just like any other, and Imperial ships have a lot more dakka than any ST fleet to date. "

Just to make it clear. The borg have asimilated and adapted to this tech from the future. Not only the armour but also the the torpedous that are also from the future. Those torpedos are 1 shoting Cubes left and right. Keep in mind that Voyager is like a BUG to a cube in size and armour. Imagine that thing on a borg TACTICAL Cube. 
 
    

" Can you read ? This is like comparing Curent Superman with golden age. The borg have more advanced tech right now by a HUGE margine. The galaxy class that Picard had could shoot all day at it and it would do NO damage.  What happend back then is completly irrelevant to this discusion as we are using the most curent version of stuff. "

" Just to make it clear. The borg have asimilated and adapted to this tech from the future. Not only the armour but also the the torpedous that are also from the future. Those torpedos are 1 shoting Cubes left and right. Keep in mind that Voyager is like a BUG to a cube in size and armour. Imagine that thing on a borg TACTICAL Cube.  "

" The Borg probably would have had better luck just beaming down to the Earth directly future or past, instead of the whole take down the future of the Federation by mindlessly blasting the surface in the area to nail a particular individual. 
If the battle onboard the E was any indication of how badly the Federation's ground combat game would have been against a handful of Drones, the compaign on the ground could have very well been fairly successful."

" @AtPhantom:  Star Trek Online is considered soft canon by CBS and I believe Paramount as well and based on that, you are right. The Borg were just about completely destroyed.  "

"

First the Klingongs where from the furture to so they had better shields of course. I also sugest you read up on the torpedos http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Transphasic_torpedo 
The only thing that made them "design vs the borg"is the fact that they have a hard time adapting to it. Also i don't even remember Janeway saying that she was shoting these type of torpedos at the Klingons, are you sure about this ? It would make no sense to just trow around those things when they need them vs the Borg.Also the Borg only lost the Borg Queen and the unicomplex. This does not mean that borg are cripled. The Borg had thousands of systems. The borg also are able to survive if the Queen dies. Of course if you got proof of anything else go ahead and post it but nothing else was lost but some damaged vessels. Even by the end of the episode the borg had adapted to the virus thing and where back in business.     Before that armour falls the Borg would have adapted to whatever ships is firing at it and making it completly immune to that damage. If SW does not get some 10 years or whatever head start like the federation ... Well its GG. "

" @Xan said:

"

First the Klingongs where from the furture to so they had better shields of course. I also sugest you read up on the torpedos http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Transphasic_torpedo 
The only thing that made them "design vs the borg"is the fact that they have a hard time adapting to it. Also i don't even remember Janeway saying that she was shoting these type of torpedos at the Klingons, are you sure about this ? It would make no sense to just trow around those things when they need them vs the Borg.Also the Borg only lost the Borg Queen and the unicomplex. This does not mean that borg are cripled. The Borg had thousands of systems. The borg also are able to survive if the Queen dies. Of course if you got proof of anything else go ahead and post it but nothing else was lost but some damaged vessels. Even by the end of the episode the borg had adapted to the virus thing and where back in business.     Before that armour falls the Borg would have adapted to whatever ships is firing at it and making it completly immune to that damage. If SW does not get some 10 years or whatever head start like the federation ... Well its GG. "

I was talking about the armor. The Borg never adapted to the torpedoes. Rewatch the ending, the last sphere is still destroyed by one.
The queen was loosing control over the hive. That means the hive mind was effectively disintegrating. That sounds like critical existence failure to me. For more info, look up.
Funny thing, you know. The Borg never really adapted to anything, did they? No. Adaptation is the staple of Borg drones. Borg ships, the only thing they ever adapted against was in their very first episode against torpedoes, and they still proved effective against them later on. All those phasers and torpedoes they encountered a thousand times before? Guess what, they still worked. They didn't do much, but that's because the cubes are by definition tough. They kept firing, and little by little, the damage was done. 
Now cue Star Wars ships, with weapons orders of magnitude above ST weapons, and by far greater rapid fire capability. Just look at any of the movies. A single star destroyer can deliver as much firepower in terms of quantity as the entire fleet did FC. In the end, the Empire could just ram the cubes with star destroyers over and over again, and they'd still have ships to spare. Hell, Executor class vessels could just ram the things and shrug off the damage. They've done so before. "

Im going with STAR WARS for the Win!

Star Trek!

"Star Trek! "

" @erik said:

"Star Trek! "

Q solos? "

"That borg ship (Sphere) is shot inside not on the outside. They got no shields or whatever they use to take shots.Why do you think Janeway let's them get captured inside if they could shot it up from the outside ? The Borg vessel traps Voyager inside and prepares to asimilate the crew and then Voyager shots its weapon from the inside. Something like in the SW ending when they shot the second DS from the inside out by destryoing that big power thing."

"Why do the borg don't stay immune to damage after they become immune to it ? Hell no idea but perhaps is because of diferent modulations on the weapons. There is a infinity modulation weapon that the borg can't adapt to it because of this. But realy i got no idea probably just to make a tv show. The thing is these futuristic torpedos where kept by the federation in stock and never used just because it was the only thing the borg never adapted to. It was like a last thing just in case. "

"Now about the ram the ships thing. I don't see how they can do it. ST Ships are very manuverable and can go to warp and drop some way off and shot again. But yes i agree SW does have the numbers here. Also if they do ram the borg and the borg get's some people inside (teleporters) the ships would be bad for the empire. Once they adapt to the damage they would asimilate the ship and add whatever they got to the colective.  Well going to sleep now perhaps i will add more tomorow. "

this is a damn stomp when Q snaps his fiinger and SW universe is removed from existence ... 

As a whole universe I vote star wars only because of the power that they have over star trek. Individual fights from the two would be different such as Q vs emperor palpatine or data vs general greivous or worf vs kit fisto.

What about Q ??

Star Wars. 

trekking across stars or having wars on stars what do you think is cooler

Star Trek Win

Kirk would beat Han Spock over Luke Uhura loses to Leia Q and Vader would be intense klingons and sith be cool too

Star Wars Wins.

Star Wars Stomps.

@xan84: actually no comparing both encyclopedias Star Wars has better weapons a fire spray is more powerful than any Star Trek ship also faster in Star Wars and the force could be used to overpower q as q are near gods in power but the force as a whole is stronger than comprehension

startrek wins.

@redleader1:

no it's not Q could just snap them out of existence.

No matter what this is spite in one direction or the other, totally depending on how you write the rules. And LOL at someone using the Force to stand up to Q. That's laughable to anyone with high knowledge of both universes. Q can change the laws of physics. Plus, there's not just one "Q" - there are many. There is a hierarchy in the continuum. The power of the Q can be granted or stripped as they choose.

seriously who necroed this

@comic_book_fan: the force is more powerful it can do anything the q however mysterious has limits and the force can beat anything as long as it is willed to it always wins one way or another it will be there. Also you can't always count on q and who says it might not have come grime the force or join it start learning Star Wars stuff if you want to hate on it. This should also be between the sides military's and any Star Wars one is better

@redleader1:

star trek ships are better the only advantage starwars has is the force.

@comic_book_fan: nope using the st and sw encyclopedia a firspry is stronger faster and has better shields than the best ship ever recorded in st it's a fact looking at statistics also the fastest and enterprise e can go is not as fast as the highest the falcon has been recorded

@redleader1:

how fast is that

the enterprise can go 7,912 the speed of light.

I love both, but Star TREK wins.

The Force is not going to be enough to stand up to the fleets and the pure coordination of the Trek universe. This is particularly true when it comes to the Federation, the Borg, and the Dominion.

Edit: Oh, and Trek has the Q continuum... as others have noted. Star Wars really has no adequate response to that, from what I've seen.

@comic_book_fan: I'm forgetting write now the site that did the comparison had star destroyer in the name that's all I might be wrong about the falcon but at least a acumallator can out race it

@comic_book_fan: slave 1 goes 10 million in comparison to 2000

@redleader1:

10 million times the speed of light?