Star Wars vs Marvel

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Silver2467

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#101  Edited By Silver2467
@King-Stranglehold da first said:
Hulk can beat Darth Sidious
How? Palpatine can steal the life energies of global populaces, mind control worlds, destroy the surfaces of planets, fight at relativistic speeds, and cheat death as a spirit. What could Hulk possibly do to beat him?
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SpidermanWins

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#102  Edited By SpidermanWins

Am I the only one who sees Mace beating IF to a bloody pulp?

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#103  Edited By delux247365

Darth Vader vs War Machine------  im tempted to be on the fence but im goin with vader
General Grievous vs Spiderman---- spiderman 
Darth Maul vs Gambit 
Mace Windu vs Iron Fist--mace windu, why hes a beast he cleared hundreds of robots in an instant using the push 
Yoda vs Invisible Woman- Yoda, because his agility and EXTENSIVE knowledge of the force will force the gravityy pushing invisible woman to yield plus goin invisible aint gonna help when he can sense people worlds away 
Boba Fett vs Black Panther - this is another tuffy but the wakandan is fighting a merc that has fought across universes 
Jango Fett vs Punisher 
Obi-Wan vs Storm storm moves the world to her liking she could destroy him without even needing to be near him
Luke Skywalker vsVenom-  i honetly dont know luke power extensively, but venom is unstable and mind tricks i think will work here
Count Dooku vs Electro - both using electricity, but dooku has too many powers at hand
Aura Sing vs Deadpool- being that she has TK and a merc like him...shes just got to knock him out...deadpool is notoriously hard to kill
Durge vs Iron Patriot- i think flight and uni beam are th winners here
Ahsoka Tano vs Wolverine - wolverine only because of healing and feral rage....
Darth Sidious vs Hulk- mind tricks may work here but it will difficult to damage the hulk in any real way from afar 
close up hulk all the way
Starkiller vs Iron Man- iron man is too skilled and smart to fight a jedis game.....his tech would give him a good  
 damn star wars ftw...hmm who knew??
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Silver2467

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#104  Edited By Silver2467

Hulk is not beating Sidious. In fact, he is entirely incapable of beating him at all due to Spirit Transference. 

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JediXMan

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#105  Edited By JediXMan  Moderator

To anyone that says Hulk would win: Can he survive a worm hole capable of destroying fleets? Answer carefully.

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Susanoo

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#106  Edited By Susanoo

Hulk is not beating Sidious. He's too powerful for Hulk.

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#107  Edited By PirateKing69

this thread is getting ridiculous....what get's me is how is Hulk going do defend from a worm hole 

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#108  Edited By nefarious

The Star Wars group has too many advantages. 

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MzombieX

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#109  Edited By MzombieX
@Silver2467:  
As a matter of fact, you haven't done differently. 
What you have done is created a scenario as you would see it play out ... and nothing more. You've taken some facts and yet mixed it with speculation.
I understand that you believe Rhodey would fire first and Vader crumbles. Yet just because you believe that, doesn't mean it is happening this way. 
 
Even if it does happen, there is the possability of force repulse or a push to knock that ordinance off course. Vader also easily has the speed to deflect multiple blaster fire. 
Vader also has armor, while not as durable as WM, that can dampen explosives and projectiles if they are not direct hits. 
Although it shouldn't even get that far if Rhodey is knocked by a simple force blast to disrupt his line of sight or targeting ... hence, now those weapons misfire.  
Vader could potentially sense his prescence and calculate his position and knock him off course before he gets off a clear shot. 

A simple gesture or thought is more immediate in my opinion, than the time it could take for Rhodey to gain a lock and the projectiles to reach their target. 
I would say that the arsenal of WM is more clumsy in comparison to the dark sorcery of the force.
I personally believe that there are physical limitations to his weaponry that the force isn't as easily bound to or defined by. To fire a missle or weapon and maintain an accurate flight pattern 
is far more at the mercy of trajectory and aim, wind and calculations, etc. 
 
You speak of Vader having to target him with precision and yet he is using an unseen telekinetic force ability that has more advantage in this respect than WM does.
Vader's helmet is supposedly equipped with targeting features that display environmental hazards and infra red like a pilot display, greater increasing his connection to the force. 
He only needs line of sight on Rhodey to force grip him. You say that Rhodey could be powerful enough to break free, but I don't agree it will be that simple.  
The fact that he carried on a casual conversation without even making a movement while choking a guy over a view screen that was nowhere near him  ... 
is a fairly good indication of his force influence, range and concentration. So even though Rhodey is a moving target, I don't think it will require as much concentration as you seem to think it will.  
 
Vader can use force crush to cave in small vehicles, although that may not be enough to take out WM's armor, it could be argued that Vader could  
dispatch Rhodey with force choke faster than you think. Choking a man out to intimidate or drive home a point is different than going for a quick kill. 
Yet it still didn't take him long to choke out the admiral in the first place. Vader could manipulate many of these aspects at the same time. 
If he gets WM in his grip he could immobilize, face him in reverse with weapon systems pointing away from him or perhaps disable them, while crushing his windpipe. 
 
Vader could potentially grab WM right from the start and send him slamming into the ground with gravitational force right onto his face. 
If Rhodey strikes first, he could repulse the ordinance and then blast Rhodey off balance before he performs this force pull to the ground. 
From there, Rhodey could be immobilized and helpless while in the force grip and throat, heart, whatever ... crushed. 
I think this would definitely cause some lack of concentration on Rhodey's part, to put it lightly.  
If he feels it's safe to approach and Rhodey is immobilized face down or back turned, a saber slash could decapitate him. 
Although of course it isn't necessary ... considering he can kill him from a vast safe distance away.  

I've stated this much already. Yet you see it playing out differently, with Vader getting overwhelmed by the weapon systems and can't concentrate while he  
ends up cowering in defeat unable to react. I get it ... I just don't agree. At least not in the majority.
Of course it could happen that way, but just because that's your perception ... does not make it absolute. Vader has ways to deal with this situation also.
So agree to disagree on this topic I guess. 
  
 
 
 
If you would like some visuals, here is how I think WM could be slammed to the ground by the force, in reverse to this pic ... instead of the ceiling and face down. 
Vader happens to tank some explosives as well. 

 
 

Here Vader uses his force skills to immobilize, quickly assess, target ... and kill the power to his opponent's implanted force field generator and cut off his defenses. 
He then finishes his opponent off with his saber. Although Force choke/crush on a vital would do just fine for Rhodey at whatever distance. 
He also doesn't necessarily have to disable any functions to the War Machine armor to finish Rhodey ... but perhaps that's another option.


 



 
   
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#110  Edited By Silver2467
@MzombieX said:

" @Silver2467:  As a matter of fact, you haven't done differently. What you have done is created a scenario as you would see it play out ... and nothing more. You've taken some facts and yet mixed it with speculation.  

All you said was that maybe one thing might happen or another might happen instead without describing any argumentation or detail to back it up. That is not what I did. 
 

I understand that you believe Rhodey would fire first and Vader crumbles. Yet just because you believe that, doesn't mean it is happening this way.  

Except that Vader is lacking in a necessary amount of defensive countermeasures to survive War Machine's attacks. So, unless you can post an example where Vader has withstood and shielded himself from the destructive power Rhodey has, then, yes, it does mean it is happening that way. 
 

Even if it does happen, there is the possability of force repulse or a push to knock that ordinance off course.   

As far as I know, Vader never used Force Repulse (and Repulse is more close-range anyway), and how is he supposed to release a Force Push if he is the one who is hit first? Let's say Vader could use Force Push after Rhodey began attacking him. What would Push do to repulsor fire? Is it supposed to knock an energy stream off-course? It would not affect the blast at all; so what does this accomplish? Vader is still blasted without a hope of defense (since his Deflection feats are nowhere near high enough to tank repulsor shots or the vast majority of War Machine's weapons).  
 

Vader also easily has the speed to deflect multiple blaster fire.   

So? Is he supposed to block missiles or bullets or repulsors with his lightsaber? And just so you know, Absorption and Deflection only cover a small radius around Vader's hands, not his entire body. So, essentially, Vader has his lightsaber and his hands to protect against imminent attacks that would, without question, cause sever injury, to say the least. He is not very well-shielded in this.  
 

Vader also has armor, while not as durable as WM, that can dampen explosives and projectiles if they are not direct hits.  

The best durability feat Vader has is surviving a Dark Side Burst. He was, when this occurred, thrown back, had his armor torn in myriads of places, and was harmed by it. Care to explain how his armor will hold up against War Machine's weaponry? Because it really makes no difference if these are direct hits or not. They will still throw him back, damage his armor/life support implants, and hurt Vader.
 

Although it shouldn't even get that far if Rhodey is knocked by a simple force blast to disrupt his line of sight or targeting ... hence, now those weapons misfire.   

But Vader's Deflection is not powerful enough to stop these.  
 

Vader could potentially sense his prescence and calculate his position and knock him off course before he gets off a clear shot. A simple gesture or thought is more immediate in my opinion, than the time it could take for Rhodey to gain a lock and the projectiles to reach their target. I would say that the arsenal of WM is more clumsy in comparison to the dark sorcery of the force.I personally believe that there are physical limitations to his weaponry that the force isn't as easily bound to or defined by. To fire a missle or weapon and maintain an accurate flight pattern is far more at the mercy of trajectory and aim, wind and calculations, etc.  You speak of Vader having to target him with precision and yet he is using an unseen telekinetic force ability that has more advantage in this respect than WM does.

What are you talking about "sense his presence"? The confrontation takes place in New York. Was it ever specified by the OP that they are not visible to one another from the start? Rhodey's weapon systems are not as complicated as you make them out to be, or they would be substantially less potent in the combat situations he has been in in the past. And once again, not even all of his armory requires any locomotion or any complex series of technical analysis on his part. 
 

Vader's helmet is supposedly equipped with targeting features that display environmental hazards and infra red like a pilot display, greater increasing his connection to the force. He only needs line of sight on Rhodey to force grip him.  

And Rhodey only needs a line of sight on Vader to shoot him. So what's your point? 
 

You say that Rhodey could be powerful enough to break free, but I don't agree it will be that simple.   

Again, try not to misrepresent what I said. I never said that Rhodey is powerful enough to do anything. I said that his sending out a projectile attack to injure Vader, or at least make him flinch, can loosen Vader's Choke on him. Going so far as to say that Vader could even Choke Rhodey from the gap separating them due to War Machine's flight and the precision necessary to manage this (when bearing in mind the aerial distance, War Machine's flight speed, and the fact that Vader would have to reach beyond the armor plating on the outside to grab Rhodey's neck), his Choke can and has been broken free of by attacking him. Starkiller managed to undo Vader's Choke by letting out a telekinetic Force Push against him while Vader was using Choke on him (and Starkiller was not at a very far distance and was not moving at high speeds when Vader used Choke either). So Vader's Force Choke has been compromised if an attack staggers him, as was the case with his duel against Starkiller in the Force Unleashed. Tell me why War Machine is different.  
 

The fact that he carried on a casual conversation without even making a movement while choking a guy over a view screen that was nowhere near him  ... is a fairly good indication of his force influence, range and concentration. So even though Rhodey is a moving target, I don't think it will require as much concentration as you seem to think it will.   

Come on now. This is just a silly comparison. Vader managed to Choke one of his moffs while having a conversation with another, and you're drawing parallels between that and Vader simultaneously Choking War Machine and being fired at by him? LOL. Honestly what do you not understand about the circumstances differing these two scenarios? Did I not define them thoroughly enough? You never even refuted what I said, by the way; you just ignored what I said and continued on with your point.  
 
@Silver2467 said: 

The circumstances of these are entirely different. On one hand, you have Vader staring at an undefended man on a view-screen using Force Choke, and on the other hand, you have a trained soldier in an armored power suit, equipped with powerful weapons, flight capability, and high-end durability, who will be willingly attacking Vader, not just standing there. 
 
Hard to compare these two scenarios. 

    

Vader can use force crush to cave in small vehicles, although that may not be enough to take out WM's armor, it could be argued that Vader could  dispatch Rhodey with force choke faster than you think.   

Without having to explain that Choke and Crush are, for a fact, different powers (and thus not even applicable to the point you were making, due to the uniqueness and variations of these abilities), when has Vader even crushed vehicles? 
 

Choking a man out to intimidate or drive home a point is different than going for a quick kill. Yet it still didn't take him long to choke out the admiral in the first place. 

I asked for an example of Vader killing someone with Choke without needing four or five seconds to do so. You have yet to comply with that. I want to see first hand one time when Vader has actually gone for a "quick kill" using Force Choke, because, from what I have seen, a "quick kill" for his Choke equals about five seconds. 
 

Vader could manipulate many of these aspects at the same time. If he gets WM in his grip he could immobilize, face him in reverse with weapon systems pointing away from him while crushing his windpipe. 

And, again, he needs precision to do this with while concurrently being attacked, having his enemy at a fair distance from him, working past the armor's outer plating to aim for Rhodey himself, and needs a few seconds to kill him with Choke anyway.  
 
You brushed over what I said again without presenting a counterargument. 
 
@Silver2467 said: 

Show me one example where Vader has shown the precision to use Choke or (for any other organ in Rhodey's body) Crush on an enemy moving at high speeds in the air. Show me an example where Vader has managed to claim any hold with Choke or Crush while an enemy is firing at him, because I can show examples of Vader losing his grip over an opponent due to flinching from an assault. In regards to you mentioning that War Machine would meet a whirlwind, Vader never used Force Whirlwind. As for simply hurling War Machine telekinetically, he may be able to accomplish something similar to that considering his telekinetic feats, but there are stipulations. For one thing, pushing or throwing War Machine will cause little, if any damage to the armor. Rhodey may simply re-stabilize his position in the air via flight. If Vader were to use a tactic such as using Force Pull to draw Rhodey toward his direction in order to impale him on his lightsaber, he can still be met with the resistance of the suit's flight capabilities pushing War Machine the other way. He is not exempt from being fired upon in this situation either. On top of that, I would favor Rhodey's ability to fire the first shot before Vader has the opportunity to try this. Assuming Vader can use Deflection to protect against bullets (very plausible), he still is not defended against the destructive capacity pitted against him. Vader has some impressive durability and pain tolerance feats, but none of them are at a stage where it can be concluded for him to survive attacks from War Machine. Now, you stated that Vader is able to completely immobilize War Machine. This is debatable, first and foremost, since, while Vader can unleash a fair amount of telekinetic power without serious strain, the majority of his best telekinetic feats required concentration, and as I said above, I find it more likely for Rhodey to shoot first (when understanding that Vader is somewhat slow in combat and has actually hesitated during battles, often times for the desired effect of assessing a situation or creating a "calm before the storm," so to speak). Assuming Vader could immobilize him though, not all of War Machine's weapons necessitate any locomotion on the part of his limbs. He could shoot at Vader with both his hands at his sides by making proper use of his shoulder-mounted cannons, for all it matters. 

 
@Silver2467 said: 

This ignores what I said about precision and Vader's inability sustain precise hold over any given portion of an object or person when faced with an oncoming attack. If this were basic Telekinesis, such as Push, Pull, or Throw, then, yes, Vader could still use this while being bombarded with attacks (although if War Machine is firing at him while Vader does this, his telekinetic hold over him will cease because he will be incapacitated/killed by his firepower). He also has no idea about the systematics of the War Machine armor either. He can guess at placements of mandatory circuitry and machinery, but he has no prior knowledge of the suit itself. And in case anyone wants to argue that Vader would already know how the suit operates at some length because of his technical finesse, this is technology manufactured by one Marvel's most experienced and accomplished inventors. It is not tech from his universe where Vader may know its functions beforehand. Also, I have never once seen Vader ascertain information about the workings of a piece of machinery just by looking at it. He usually has to dismantle it and search over the inner components. However, if Vader did gain some knowledge of the War Machine suit's design, understanding the fact that not only can the armor plating tank heavy blunt force damage and energy output but can also preserve the wearer inside it without any jarring of the brain or other organs (as might be caused by an explosion, for instance); without any disorientation from attacks or high-speed flight; and without the underlying circuitry being destroyed by attacks that may throw the armor off-balance or cause it to crash through durable surfaces or take high falls, I can only conclude that the inside of the suit is very durable and well-protected as well. It may not be as resilient as the outer portions but still difficult to damage, or else, like I said, the armor would break from the inside and the wearer would be injured from outside attacks. So Vader would have to be able to use precise telekinetic technique with some decent power behind it at a moment's notice while War Machine flies around, all the while having other concerns such as defending himself from incoming fire (which has proven to throw off his more precise applications of Telekinesis). 
 
So I find it unlikely for Vader to rip out a couple wires and expect the armor to just fall apart.   



or perhaps disable them,   

And how will he do this? Vader never learned Ionize, and his Telekinesis is unable to lay a dent on his armor.  
 

Vader could potentially grab WM right from the start and send him slamming into the ground with gravitational force right onto his face.   

This will not damage the armor. 
 

If Rhodey strikes first, he could repulse the ordinance   

If War Machine strikes first (and he probably will), Vader is dead, and, yes, it is that simple. Did Vader perform some insane Deflection feat recently that I never read about? Where are you getting this idea that he can just send away any of Rhodey's projectiles? 
 

and then blast Rhodey off balance before he performs this force pull to the ground. From there, Rhodey could be immobilized and helpless while in the force grip and throat, heart, whatever ... crushed. I think this would definitely cause some lack of concentration on Rhodey's part, to put it lightly.  

Until you can compensate for Rhodey's flight developing resistance to Vader's Pull, the amount of force/weight necessary to move the War Machine armor in the first place, Vader's being attacked staggering his Choke, and his inability to survive a straight hit from War Machine's weapons, this is not a likely outcome. 
 

If he feels it's safe to approach and Rhodey is immobilized face down or back turned, a saber slash could decapitate him.   

Considering that War Machine can tank nukes and the fact that, contrary to popular belief, lightsabers cannot cut through anything, this may not be as easy you make it out to be. 
 

Although of course it isn't necessary ... considering he can kill him from a vast safe distance away.   

Not really. In fact, I would speculate that a ranged fight is probably more suited to Rhodey's favor than Vader's, since War Machine's plethora of projectile weapons could kill him without much trouble. 
 
As to your scans, you neglected to address the differences in situation between holding a person against a ceiling and managing a similar feat against War Machine. As for explosives, so what? War Machine's weapons are more deadly than that. Your scans are not improving your case.
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MzombieX

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#111  Edited By MzombieX
@Silver2467:
   
Look man ... it's obvious, since you aren't even responding to a majority of my thoughts accurately that you aren't grasping what I'm saying. 
Just one example of many, would be the point of you telling me that (Vader taking Rhodey down to the ground won't dent his armor) ...
As if I was ever making the point of him using that tactic in an attempt to damage his armor to begin with. 

I've already spent enough time laying it out. 
If you don't agree then that's fine. Which is why I already said "we should agree to disagree on the topic." 
I don't have the patience to reword or repeat myself anymore. 
If there is no way in hell that Vader stands a chance in your eyes ... and you view War Machine as a Jedi/Sith Lord killer without equal, then have it your way. 
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Silver2467

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#112  Edited By Silver2467
@MzombieX said:
" @Silver2467:    Look man ... it's obvious, since you aren't even responding to a majority of my thoughts accurately that you aren't grasping what I'm saying.   
LOL. I like how you say this after repeatedly overlooking large bulks of my posts. 
 
Just one example of many, would be the point of you telling me that (Vader taking Rhodey down to the ground won't dent his armor) ...As if I was ever making the point of him using that tactic in an attempt to damage his armor to begin with.  
Give me one good reason why Vader would not use this tactic. Does he know how resilient the War Machine armor is? For all Vader knows, Rhodey's suit would fall apart handily from a simple Force Push. 
 
Now in the context in which I said that, let me elaborate on my meaning. My point was that Vader's throwing around War Machine would not even affect him any way, other than to change his position against his will. Truth be told, I doubt it would even prevent Rhodey from persisting with an assault. I was mentioning how ineffective it would be at the base level of incapability to damage the armor, much less hindering War Machine from returning an attack. 
 
I've already spent enough time laying it out. If you don't agree then that's fine. Which is why I already said "we should agree to disagree on the topic." I don't have the patience to reword or repeat myself anymore. 
If anyone was repeating himself, it was me, as you insisted on not acknowledging or responding to key issues I brought up. 
 
If there is no way in hell that Vader stands a chance in your eyes ... and you view War Machine as a Jedi/Sith Lord killer without equal, then have it your way.  "
You can misrepresent everything I said if you want, but it does you no credit. 
 
But we can agree to disagree. 
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#113  Edited By marvellover1

Darth Vader vs War Machine 
General Grievous vs Spiderman 
Darth Maul vsGambit 
Mace Windu vs Iron Fist 
Yoda vs Invisible Woman 
Boba Fett vs Black Panther 
Jango Fett vs Punisher 
Obi-Wan vs Storm 
Luke Skywalker vs Venom 
Count Dooku vs Electro 
Aura Sing vs Deadpool 
Durge vs Iron Patriot 
Ahsoka Tano vs Wolverine 
Darth Sidious vs Hulk 
Starkiller vs Iron Man 

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Zaterra

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#114  Edited By Zaterra
     Vader 
Spiderman 
Darth Maul 
Mace 
Yoda 
Black Panther 
Jango Fett 
Storm 
Luke Skywalker 
Count Dooku 
Aura Sing 
Durge 
Wolverine 
 Hulk 
Iron Man
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Silver2467

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#115  Edited By Silver2467
@Silver2467 said:
" Hulk is not beating Sidious. In fact, he is entirely incapable of beating him at all due to Spirit Transference.  "
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#116  Edited By MzombieX
@Silver2467: 
  

You keep saying that I am ignoring the bulk of your comments ... but I feel I have responded to all of your comments.  
They can all be found in my previous posts. Every single one of your statements has been responded to in one way or another. 
It seems you choose to ignore the responses and simply rephrase the question and ask me the same question over again.
 
I know I said we can agree to disagree and I stand by that. Thought I'd try and clear some things up one last time.
You or anyone can continue to read this ... but because the length and detail of our discussion is getting out of hand, I understand if you don't. 

The whole point of me commenting on this thread to begin with was to say that I didn't feel this battle was as one sided as you were making it out. 
Not that War Machine doesn't have the capability to win this if things were to go his way. 
Of course if he gets off the first strike and gets a direct hit or manages to unleash an onslaught before Vader can react and strikes with his repulsors ... he could win. 
War machine would make a great Bounty Hunter and has capabilities to kill a Jedi or Sith. 
All of these things you talk of, are of course possible. I'm not argueing that fact. Yet that all hinges on wether or not Vader is attacking first or counter attacking. Why wouldn't he? 
You make it sound as if Vader isn't even there in this fight.
I feel I have given plenty of reasons on how it could go the other way if Vader gets the first strike.  
 
Vader has torn apart an entire bridge and hurled the structure like missiles at his opponents. I think he should have no problem knocking rockets off course out of the air. 
Even the slightest nudge is enough to knock a missile off course. I doubt that the idea of bullets will be enough to stop Vader. 
Vader is often calm and unflinching when being assaulted by blasters and projectiles or any threat for that matter. He casually uses the force to deflect blasters. 
He doesn't strike me as the type who is easily distracted in combat. 

You don't think Vader can hit WM in flight with the force, yet I explained to you that Vader has targeting equipment in his helmet. It greater increases his accuracy and connection to the force. 
Although his bionics are infused with Sith alchemy and advanced tech that increases his strength and durability and speed ... he is still less mobile than he was prior. 
As a result he incorporates the force in his combat to make up for this. He battles while at the same time manipulating his environment.
You can say that Vader will be oh so distracted by anything going on that he will find it impossible to focus, and yet for any example you can give of this ... 
he is known for utilizing the force and fluidly blending it with his attacks. He uses his telekinetics to slam his opponents, while manipulating his environment and using this as a weapon, and even using force jumps 
to leap great distances ... all at the same time. He has defeated at least 8 Jedi at the same time that I know of. He has shown the speed to leap out of the way and disarm a Jedi master with his bare hands, while he was unarmed.
I think his ability to concentrate is just fine. 
 
When he choked out the admiral across a view screen he might as well have been brushing his teeth while on a conference call and making a grilled cheese sandwhich, typing a reply on Face Book, 
and playing a game of paddle ball. My point of this, is to show how casually he can influence the force and his ability to concentrate. It was nothing to him. 
It was also at a vast distance and the target was nowhere near him. 
 
Now I understand that WM is flying, but I've already mentioned his targeting tech. I've already mentioned his skills as a pilot.  
Vader was the greatest pilot in the galaxy and used the force during dogfights.
Vader was renowned for using precognitive abilities to percieve the movement and attacks of his opponents far ahead of time. 
Not only has he displayed the ability to percieve possible distant future outcomes, but he could predict their immediate movements in combat before they made them. 
If he can predict the movements ahead of time on star ships in flight, then he shouldn't have a problem here. He is also targeting with his mind. A mind attack that has senses beyond Rhodey's mind.
So we disagree that Rhodey's projectiles and ability to get off the first strike are faster than these abilities of Vader. 
I do not believe that Rhodey's weapons are faster than telekinetic thought. Vader's abilities are not bound by the same laws that Rhodey or his equipment is.
 
You talk of Vader having to move the force past WM's throat plate as if it is some boundry. Yet there is nothing to get past. The armor plating is nothing to Vader. 
This isn't going to require the least bit of concentration on Vader's part. The force will pass through it like a ghost, so it doesn't matter. 
Vader's goal here has nothing to do with denting Rhodey's armor. If he can influence the force across a view screen to the bridge of a star destroyer then a metal neck plate is insignificant 
when faced with the power of the force. That War Machine armor doesn't exist to Vader ... if Vader chooses not to acknowledge it.
 
I shouldn't have to explain to you what sensing his prescence means. It means exactly what it sounds like.  
Wherever Rhodey is flying or his location in this scenario, I don't care what it is, Vader will be fully capable of targeting him and attacking accurately and taking him out.
All of these things I have stated, give reason as to how Vader can utilize a combination of his targeting tech and the force to track him. 
With the advantage of the force being nearly instantaneous, unseen, and not tied down to trajectory ... along with precognitive ability. Vader's attack has the advantage over Rhodey in my opinion.  
 
If Vader is the one to slam Rhodey with a force blast or grip him down towards the ground as he is firing ... Rohdey's weapons will fail. Simple as that. 
If a hunter is taking a shot at a deer, or a pilot is attempting a weapon lock on another plane and begins to fire ... then is suddenly slammed by concussive force or yanked downward. 
Those shots fired are not going to be direct hits ... or even considered a hit at all. Complete misfire. 
 
The scan I showed of Vader tanking those explosives are enough to show that Vader's armor can easily shrug off any impact or debris from stray missiles or explosions that crash nearby ... if they even get that close. 
His attacks could also be thrown so far off course that they won't be significant to the situation at all.  
Yes a direct hit from any of these and the repulsors would be a problem for Vader. I agreed with you already. That falls under the category of ways Rhodey can win this fight and if all goes as WM plans. 
Yet none of those things apply if he can't hit his target ... if Vader gets ahold of him first. 
 
You can be as detailed as you like about the difference between force choke and force crush, but I have seen force choke referred to many times as simply a modified version of force crush. 
If you grab a can of soda with your hand and crush it ... force crush. If you grab someone by the throat and crush their windpipe ... force choke. 
There is an unseen telekinetic grip being applied and crushing down with weight and exerting force. I'm sure there are subtle applications for the power but they aren't so far off as you are making it sound. 
Both Force crush and Force choke are simply extensions of force manipulation that branch off from Force grip. 
 
You keep asking for examples of Vader showing that he can manage a grip on something like WM. You think he will be able to break the pull. 
I would like to see War Machine getting slammed or gripped by Invisible Woman or Jean Grey for example. Or smashed in the side by a telekinetic fist, while firing on a distant target, and still hitting his target with precision.
Breaking away from those telekinetic forces easily. Maybe he has at times and maybe he hasn't. For any time he may have been able to maintain this, I'm sure there could be examples of him not. 
He has also not encountered Vader's force. Whatever the case may be, it is alot of speculation. We can't fully determine if he will be able to break free or not. 
 
Personally I don't think the size or weight of WM or his jet boots are anything Vader couldn't manipulate. 
Supposing he is grabbed and force choked, while being pulled to the ground ... he could be dead before he even falls to the Earth. 
If not ... then he is dead in a few seconds after hitting the ground. 
I shouldn't have to mention again that Vader can do this from a safe distance and position Rhodey's body in a way that his weapons will not be a threat. 
 
You keep speaking of Vader not being able to ionize and yet I have posted you a scan showing exactly what I was talking about. Look at the scan.
Vader effortlessly used the force to percieve the location of an opponent's internally implanted force field generator and disabled it with a thought. Cutting off his defensive systems.
He simply percieved it and immediately shut it down with telekinetics in a brief moment. While at the same time rendering his opponent immobilized by the force.  
You seem to think that WM's systems are put together really - really - really good inside and Vader cannot do this. Maybe or maybe not. You cannot say for certain. 

If not an option, it doesn't matter because I still gave other ways that he could die and it may in fact be faster to just choke him out or crush his heart to begin with. 
Why bother wasting time to disable Rhodey when he could be dead before he hits the ground anyway. Or dead in the amount of time it would take to disable anything.
Unless of course Vader simply disables his jet propulsion ... which puts an end to any resistance in the air immediately. 
I am very confidant that it wouldn't take much, with Vader's knowledge of robotics and mechanical ingenuity, that he could at least determine the source of his flight. 
I mean what the hell ... you can visually see the rockets in his boots and the connection to the force should easily determine any unknowns. 

You seem to have this idea that Vader cannot multi-task while using the force. Yet he can move and duel in saber combat, force leap etc. and push, slam, pull, while in combat blending them together.
He can grip or immobilize while choking at the same time or immobilize while he disables an internally weaponized or defensive device. 
He has fought Jedi who were more mobile or faster than him and made up for this flaw because of his control, concentration, and mastery of the force.
 
You stated that maybe Vader's saber cannot cut through WM's armor. Then again maybe it can ... we don't know. 
I gave that as an option for a final death blow ... yet I already said it was a secondary option and most likely not the easiest way to dispatch him. 
So it doesn't matter because Vader doesn't need to do this anyway. He can kill him with his mind.
 
Whatever the case may be, if Rhodey is attacked first ... he has a few seconds to somehow break free of the grip of the force or target and take down Vader accurately while being 
choked or having a heart attack and being thrown about in the air or being violently yanked straight down to the ground by an unseen gravitational force ... before he is dead. 
Good luck trying to shoot Vader with any precision at a distance ... while being strangled with a steel vise grip clamped on his throat and crashing,
I don't see him pulling this off.

On the other hand, I already stated that I do see your point on the ways WM could win. If he can hit Vader first then he has the upper hand. 
My only point in all of this is that (IF) is the big word here. I think I gave reasonable examples of how it could go wrong for Rhodey if he doesn't. 
I can see that WM can win this. I just don't feel it's the majority. 
If I can't convince you that Vader even has a shot, then that's fine. I do understand your view on it.

That was my only point in responding to this thread, was to discuss with you if Vader has a shot ... because it was being made to appear, by you, that there was no way for him to win. 
No offense and hard feelings to you Silver. I know the topic got frustrating and there has been lack of communication between us. 
We both seem to be very detailed in our debates and type alot, LOL. So it became a headache to debate with you on this. 
Feel free to respond if you like ... if not, then we can agree to disagree that Vader can't hurt War Machine.

 


 
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#117  Edited By Silver2467
@MzombieX said: 

Of course if he gets off the first strike and gets a direct hit or manages to unleash an onslaught before Vader can react and strikes with his repulsors ... he could win. 
All of these things you talk of, are of course possible. I'm not argueing that fact. Yet that all hinges on wether or not Vader is attacking first or counter attacking. Why wouldn't he?   

Vader is still incapable of using Deflection against the majority of War Machine's weapons, and his Deflection is limited to his hands.  
 
Good luck making an argument for him to avoid Rhodey's attacks with his limited mobility and small-radius Deflection. 
 

Vader has torn apart an entire bridge and hurled the structure like missiles at his opponents. I think he should have no problem knocking rockets off course out of the air. 
Even the slightest nudge is enough to knock a missile off course. I doubt that the idea of bullets will be enough to stop Vader. 
Vader is often calm and unflinching when being assaulted by blasters and projectiles or any threat for that matter. He casually uses the force to deflect blasters. 
He doesn't strike me as the type who is easily distracted in combat.   

Bullets and most of Rhodey's weapons would incapacitate Vader, at least. Also, Vader has been staggered by blaster bolts, such as when Boba shot him in Enemy of the Empire.  
 
You still are not presenting how he would deal with multiple weapons systems, only missiles and other explosives.  
 

You don't think Vader can hit WM in flight with the force, yet I explained to you that Vader has targeting equipment in his helmet. It greater increases his accuracy and connection to the force. 
Although his bionics are infused with Sith alchemy and advanced tech that increases his strength and durability and speed ... he is still less mobile than he was prior. 
As a result he incorporates the force in his combat to make up for this. He battles while at the same time manipulating his environment.
You can say that Vader will be oh so distracted by anything going on that he will find it impossible to focus, and yet for any example you can give of this ... 
he is known for utilizing the force and fluidly blending it with his attacks. He uses his telekinetics to slam his opponents, while manipulating his environment and using this as a weapon, and even using force jumps 
to leap great distances ... all at the same time. He has defeated at least 8 Jedi at the same time that I know of. He has shown the speed to leap out of the way and disarm a Jedi master with his bare hands, while he was unarmed.
I think his ability to concentrate is just fine.   

Now you are just not even reading what I said. I said more than once Vader could move Rhodey's armor; the difficulty is in using Choke, as that has restrictions. And even with basic Push or Throw, Vader still has obstacles to be met with, which I also explained before, the details of which you have not thoroughly argued against. Read and respond to my posts. 
 
And you obviously never read Purge; so it would be better for you not to use it as an argument as if you did. Vader killed 8 Jedi while circumstances of the fight favored him, and he had help. It was a good showing but not translatable to this fight or even impressive enough to suggest he can win this. 
 

When he choked out the admiral across a view screen he might as well have been brushing his teeth while on a conference call and making a grilled cheese sandwhich, typing a reply on Face Book, 
and playing a game of paddle ball. My point of this, is to show how casually he can influence the force and his ability to concentrate. It was nothing to him. 
It was also at a vast distance and the target was nowhere near him.   

So you are not even planning on responding to what I said about Vader's Choke being thrown off when attacked, something I cited an example of? I am still waiting for an example of Vader killing someone with Choke in an instant rather than a matter of seconds, by the way. 
 

Now I understand that WM is flying, but I've already mentioned his targeting tech. I've already mentioned his skills as a pilot.  
Vader was the greatest pilot in the galaxy and used the force during dogfights.
Vader was renowned for using precognitive abilities to percieve the movement and attacks of his opponents far ahead of time. 
Not only has he displayed the ability to percieve possible distant future outcomes, but he could predict their immediate movements in combat before they made them. 
If he can predict the movements ahead of time on star ships in flight, then he shouldn't have a problem here. He is also targeting with his mind. A mind attack that has senses beyond Rhodey's mind.
So we disagree that Rhodey's projectiles and ability to get off the first strike are faster than these abilities of Vader. 
I do not believe that Rhodey's weapons are faster than telekinetic thought. Vader's abilities are not bound by the same laws that Rhodey or his equipment is.  

This just sounds like a quote from a wiki. If you have an example of Vader striking first because his precog forewarned him of an oncoming attack, then provide it. Vader has Precognition, but Jedi and Sith's precog is not always active or warn them to every attack. Also, even if Vader could sense Rhodey's first attack, he still lacks the ability to survive it, and you have not given me anything to imply Vader would get the first hit either. I already went over targeting on War Machine's part.
  

You talk of Vader having to move the force past WM's throat plate as if it is some boundry. Yet there is nothing to get past. The armor plating is nothing to Vader. 
This isn't going to require the least bit of concentration on Vader's part. The force will pass through it like a ghost, so it doesn't matter. 
Vader's goal here has nothing to do with denting Rhodey's armor. If he can influence the force across a view screen to the bridge of a star destroyer then a metal neck plate is insignificant 
when faced with the power of the force. That War Machine armor doesn't exist to Vader ... if Vader chooses not to acknowledge it.

 I never said Vader would not be able to move past Rhodey's throat plate. I said it could potentially be an obstacle, but fair enough.

I shouldn't have to explain to you what sensing his prescence means. It means exactly what it sounds like.  
Wherever Rhodey is flying or his location in this scenario, I don't care what it is, Vader will be fully capable of targeting him and attacking accurately and taking him out.
All of these things I have stated, give reason as to how Vader can utilize a combination of his targeting tech and the force to track him. 
With the advantage of the force being nearly instantaneous, unseen, and not tied down to trajectory ... along with precognitive ability. Vader's attack has the advantage over Rhodey in my opinion.    

Show me an example of Vader utilizing Choke at the range necessary, while being attacked at the same time, during a combat situation. Falling back on the same scenario in the Star Destroyer where he can clearly see the moff he killed on a view screen while not preoccupied with the intricacies of a fight doesn't cut it.  
 

If Vader is the one to slam Rhodey with a force blast or grip him down towards the ground as he is firing ... Rohdey's weapons will fail. Simple as that. 
If a hunter is taking a shot at a deer, or a pilot is attempting a weapon lock on another plane and begins to fire ... then is suddenly slammed by concussive force or yanked downward. 
Those shots fired are not going to be direct hits ... or even considered a hit at all. Complete misfire.   

He is not inept if thrown to the ground, and he can still re-stabilize himself, very possibly before he reaches the ground anyways. 
 

The scan I showed of Vader tanking those explosives are enough to show that Vader's armor can easily shrug off any impact or debris from stray missiles or explosions that crash nearby ... if they even get that close. 
His attacks could also be thrown so far off course that they won't be significant to the situation at all.  
Yes a direct hit from any of these and the repulsors would be a problem for Vader. I agreed with you already. That falls under the category of ways Rhodey can win this fight and if all goes as WM plans. 
Yet none of those things apply if he can't hit his target ... if Vader gets ahold of him first.   

War Machine is still faster than Vader, and no, the only attacks I could see Vader using Deflection against are bullets, possibly, a missile, if even that. I have seen Vader deflect a small missile-like projectile away from himself, when the goal of it was not even to kill him. In fact, it was not even an explosive. Show me an example of Vader using Deflection against high-powered missile systems of decent size and speed. Also, War Machine is faster than Vader is; so I do still think he will strike before Vader does.
 
And tanking these explosions is not enough to withstand Rhodey's weapons. Try again. 
 

You can be as detailed as you like about the difference between force choke and force crush, but I have seen force choke referred to many times as simply a modified version of force crush. 
If you grab a can of soda with your hand and crush it ... force crush. If you grab someone by the throat and crush their windpipe ... force choke. 
There is an unseen telekinetic grip being applied and crushing down with weight and exerting force. I'm sure there are subtle applications for the power but they aren't so far off as you are making it sound. 
Both Force crush and Force choke are simply extensions of force manipulation that branch off from Force grip.   

Even if all of this was true, you still have not posted a scan or quoted a book on Vader killing someone with Choke quickly. So the point you were making with that comparison is still moot anyway. 
 

You keep asking for examples of Vader showing that he can manage a grip on something like WM. You think he will be able to break the pull. 
I would like to see War Machine getting slammed or gripped by Invisible Woman or Jean Grey for example. Or smashed in the side by a telekinetic fist, while firing on a distant target, and still hitting his target with precision.
Breaking away from those telekinetic forces easily. Maybe he has at times and maybe he hasn't. For any time he may have been able to maintain this, I'm sure there could be examples of him not. 
He has also not encountered Vader's force. Whatever the case may be, it is alot of speculation. We can't fully determine if he will be able to break free or not.   

Right, because Vader's Choke is comparable to Jean's telekinesis...even though it has been broken if Vader is staggered, while Jean has demonstrated higher levels of telekinetic control... 
 
If Vader's Choke has been overcome in the past by his being intercepted with another attack, there is no reason to assume it would fail here. Again, tell me why War Machine is different. 
 

Personally I don't think the size or weight of WM or his jet boots are anything Vader couldn't manipulate. 
Supposing he is grabbed and force choked, while being pulled to the ground ... he could be dead before he even falls to the Earth. 
If not ... then he is dead in a few seconds after hitting the ground. 
I shouldn't have to mention again that Vader can do this from a safe distance and position Rhodey's body in a way that his weapons will not be a threat.   

His jets are a threat because Vader lacks the telekinetic power to destroy them and they offer resistance to him moving War Machine. 
 

You keep speaking of Vader not being able to ionize and yet I have posted you a scan showing exactly what I was talking about. Look at the scan.
Vader effortlessly used the force to percieve the location of an opponent's internally implanted force field generator and disabled it with a thought. Cutting off his defensive systems.
He simply percieved it and immediately shut it down with telekinetics in a brief moment. While at the same time rendering his opponent immobilized by the force.  
You seem to think that WM's systems are put together really - really - really good inside and Vader cannot do this. Maybe or maybe not. You cannot say for certain.  

Let's try to put this into context. You showed a scan of Vader using what the narration specifically defined as an application to Telekinesis to break a piece of machinery Vader himself is familiar with (not the case here with War Machine) while his enemy was not at a very far distance from him and was helplessly immobilized, and it was not Ionize. I already told you that Ionize is not merely a telekinetic power, and Vader does not know it. It is a light side power anyway. But go ahead and ignore my posts again if you want. 
 

If not an option, it doesn't matter because I still gave other ways that he could die and it may in fact be faster to just choke him out or crush his heart to begin with. 
Why bother wasting time to disable Rhodey when he could be dead before he hits the ground anyway. Or dead in the amount of time it would take to disable anything.
Unless of course Vader simply disables his jet propulsion ... which puts an end to any resistance in the air immediately. 
I am very confidant that it wouldn't take much, with Vader's knowledge of robotics and mechanical ingenuity, that he could at least determine the source of his flight. 
I mean what the hell ... you can visually see the rockets in his boots and the connection to the force should easily determine any unknowns.  

I like how this paragraph completely undermines and disregards everything I have stated thus far without actually discrediting anything I said. If you want a counterargument to this, reread every one of my posts in reply to you on this thread, because this is just nonsense. 
 

You seem to have this idea that Vader cannot multi-task while using the force. Yet he can move and duel in saber combat, force leap etc. and push, slam, pull, while in combat blending them together.
He can grip or immobilize while choking at the same time or immobilize while he disables an internally weaponized or defensive device. 
He has fought Jedi who were more mobile or faster than him and made up for this flaw because of his control, concentration, and mastery of the force.  

This is not even worth responding to. All I can tell you is to mention the circumstances of these other fights and how they differ from this. 
 

You stated that maybe Vader's saber cannot cut through WM's armor. Then again maybe it can ... we don't know. 
I gave that as an option for a final death blow ... yet I already said it was a secondary option and most likely not the easiest way to dispatch him. 
So it doesn't matter because Vader doesn't need to do this anyway. He can kill him with his mind.    

Alright. 
 

Whatever the case may be, if Rhodey is attacked first ... he has a few seconds to somehow break free of the grip of the force or target and take down Vader accurately while being 
choked or having a heart attack and being thrown about in the air or being violently yanked straight down to the ground by an unseen gravitational force ... before he is dead. 
Good luck trying to shoot Vader with any precision at a distance ... while being strangled with a steel vise grip clamped on his throat and crashing,
I don't see him pulling this off.  

LOL. Jedi have managed to attack Vader while being caught in his Choke. Do you want to make excuses for why Rhodey would be unable to do the same now? 
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#118  Edited By MzombieX

@Silver2467: 
 
You aren't grasping this simple fact.  
I have already agreed numerous times that War machine has the potential to kill Vader. 
So there is no longer any reason for you to make statements of how Vader's concentration is going to be affected by the attack and how he could be killed. 
 
Yet you have not given a good enough reason as to how Rhodey is going to compensate if the role were reversed. 
I've given plenty of reasons as to why Rhodey's concentration and attacks would not even strike their target or be of consequence if Vader strikes first. 
All of your talk of his weaponry in that situation is a non-factor and thus ... I've answered many of your repetitive questions. So apply it where necessary.
You can talk all you want about Vader's defenses, and yet Rhodey has no defense whatsoever against the will of the force. 
 
We obviously see it differently on who has the edge in being able to strike and hit their target first. This is ultimately what it will come down to.  
If Vader gets ahold of him ... Rhodey is screwed. I've explained why in enough detail already.  
So please stop saying "but Rhodey hits him first" over and over as if this is a fact and the fight is over.
 
Tanking explosions that are not direct hits due to Rhodey misfiring was already explained in full. 
understand this concept and don't bring it up again.  
 
Not sure what fight you are talking about but Vader was alone and without help when killing those Jedi. 
 
Rhodey could be dead before he even hits the ground or killed within seconds there after. No I can't prove that he can crush his throat instantly, but then again ... several seconds is fast enough.
It's all the time he needs and WM is not escaping if immobilized. I shouldn't even have to get into Vader's range with you, and there is no intricacy or distraction to this fight if Rhodey is gripped.
 
Prove to me that Rhodey can escape force grip or choke applied by Vader with only the power of his jet boots.  
show me an escape by someone from Vader himself. Not an escape by another Jedi using force to polarize, or Vader being attacked.  
Jedi have the power to oppose another's force so your comment isn't valid. Rhodey does not know the force.
I'd like to see someone actually escaping from Vader himself personally, because we both know that there are different skill levels in this respect with the force. 
Now prove to me that he can maintain flight patterns and position to fire with any accuracy while at the same time continuing to wrestle with that unseen force.
 
Yet then again, I've already stated that the Jets could be disabled. This would make that point of Rhodey breaking free impossible to acheive and pointless to discuss. 
You disagree ... but you cannot prove it. 
You keep talking about ionize and yet I have never once brought up ionize, so if you don't mind ... you can also stop talking about that now. 
I have given you a scan of Vader not only locating and percieving locations of internal defense systems within a person .. but also shutting them down with a simple thought. 
It didn't take but a moment when the victim was gripped ... so one could say that Rhodey is taken to the ground and not flying or getting away regardless. 
Although you see it the way you do, you can't prove otherwise that this would be impossible. I've at least shown it very likely "could be" possible.  
 
Like I said ... I already agreed from the beginning that WM has the ability to kill Vader. I'm not trying to convince you otherwise.
The only difference in our views is that you seem to think that Vader cannot kill War Machine.
I disagree. Vader can kill War Machine. Vader can not only kill him, but he could potentially kill him within seconds. 
If you can't accept that Rhodey can die ... then don't.
But you underestimate the power of the Dark Side =]
 

 
 
 




 

 


 
 



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#119  Edited By starkwood
 Darth Vader vs War Machine 
General Grievous vs Spiderman 
Darth Maul vs Gambit 
Mace Windu vs Iron Fist 
Yoda vs Invisible Woman 
Boba Fett vs Black Panther 
Jango Fett vs Punisher 
Obi-Wan vs Storm 
Luke Skywalker vs Venom 
Count Dooku vs Electro
Darth Sidious vs Hulk
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#120  Edited By Silver2467
@MzombieX said: 

Yet you have not given a good enough reason as to how Rhodey is going to compensate if the role were reversed. 
I've given plenty of reasons as to why Rhodey's concentration and attacks would not even strike their target or be of consequence if Vader strikes first. 
All of your talk of his weaponry in that situation is a

non-factor

and thus ... I've answered many of your repetitive questions. So apply it where necessary.
You can talk all you want about Vader's defenses, and yet Rhodey has no defense whatsoever against the will of the force. 
Except for all of the obstacles Vader has that I explained multiple times in paragraph after paragraph that you willingly choose to ignore. 
 

We obviously see it differently on who has the edge in being able to strike and hit their target first. This is ultimately what it will come down to.  
If Vader gets ahold of him ... Rhodey is screwed. I've explained why in enough detail already.  
So please stop saying "but Rhodey hits him first" over and over as if this is a fact and the fight is over.

LOL. Then give me a good reason for why Vader should hit first, because all you did was quote wikis, as far as I can tell, instead of actually mentioning feats. 
 

Tanking explosions that are not direct hits due to Rhodey misfiring was already explained in full. 
understand this concept and don't bring it up again.  

Understand the concept that Vader is not even durable enough to survive hits from Rhodey, direct or otherwise, and don't bring it up again. 
 

Not sure what fight you are talking about but Vader was alone and without help when killing those Jedi. 

"
Is that so? Because I seem to remember a battalion of stormtroopers arriving as the Jedi were about to kill Vader. 
 

No Caption Provided


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Read it before spreading misinformation next time. 
 

Rhodey could be dead before he even hits the ground or killed within seconds there after. No I can't prove that he can crush his throat instantly, but then again ... several seconds is fast enough.
It's all the time he needs and WM is not escaping if immobilized. I shouldn't even have to get into Vader's range with you, and there is no intricacy or distraction to this fight if Rhodey is gripped.

I guess the part of my post where I brought up Rhodey's weapons systems not restrained to his own locomotion went over your head then. 
 

Prove to me that Rhodey can escape force grip or choke applied by Vader with only the power of his jet boots.  
show me an escape by someone from Vader himself. Not an escape by another Jedi using force to polarize, or Vader being attacked.  
Jedi have the power to oppose another's force so your comment isn't valid. Rhodey does not know the force.
I'd like to see someone actually escaping from Vader himself personally, because we both know that there are different skill levels in this respect with the force. 
Now prove to me that he can maintain flight patterns and position to fire with any accuracy while at the same time continuing to wrestle with that unseen force.

No disrespect, really, but you need to study the EU before commenting on these threads. You have been mentioning abilities for Vader that he never even used and admitted yourself that you only read so much EU material. Now you have a lack of understanding regarding what Force Resistance is. Force Resistance is basically a universal power from which Jedi or Sith can learn resistances to Force powers, for the purpose of them either having little effect on them or no effect at all. By Dark Empire II, Luke learned to resist Force Choke altogether, as an example. Problem with you analogy is that not every Jedi knows a resistance to Force Choke, and some never learned a resistance to anything at all. So, no, you cannot just use the cop out of "Jedi can resist the Force!" It does not work that way.
 

Yet then again, I've already stated that the Jets could be disabled. This would make that point of Rhodey breaking free impossible to acheive and pointless to discuss. 
You disagree ... but you cannot prove it. 

It is not on me to prove that Vader's Telekinesis is insufficient to damage Rhodey's armor, which would be necessary to disable or destroy his jets. That is on you to prove he can
 

You keep talking about ionize and yet I have never once brought up ionize, so if you don't mind ... you can also stop talking about that now. 
I have given you a scan of Vader not only locating and percieving locations of internal defense systems within a person .. but also shutting them down with a simple thought. 
It didn't take but a moment when the victim was gripped ... so one could say that Rhodey is taken to the ground and not flying or getting away regardless. 
Although you see it the way you do, you can't prove otherwise that this would be impossible. I've at least shown it very likely "could be" possible.  

@Silver2467 said: 

Let's try to put this into context. You showed a scan of Vader using what the narration specifically defined as an application to Telekinesis to break a piece of machinery Vader himself is familiar with (not the case here with War Machine) while his enemy was not at a very far distance from him and was helplessly immobilized, and it was not Ionize. I already told you that Ionize is not merely a telekinetic power, and Vader does not know it. It is a light side power anyway. But go ahead and ignore my posts again if you want.   

@Silver2467 said: 

This ignores what I said about precision and Vader's inability sustain precise hold over any given portion of an object or person when faced with an oncoming attack. If this were basic Telekinesis, such as Push, Pull, or Throw, then, yes, Vader could still use this while being bombarded with attacks (although if War Machine is firing at him while Vader does this, his telekinetic hold over him will cease because he will be incapacitated/killed by his firepower). He also has no idea about the systematics of the War Machine armor either. He can guess at placements of mandatory circuitry and machinery, but he has no prior knowledge of the suit itself. And in case anyone wants to argue that Vader would already know how the suit operates at some length because of his technical finesse, this is technology manufactured by one Marvel's most experienced and accomplished inventors. It is not tech from his universe where Vader may know its functions beforehand. Also, I have never once seen Vader ascertain information about the workings of a piece of machinery just by looking at it. He usually has to dismantle it and search over the inner components. However, if Vader did gain some knowledge of the War Machine suit's design, understanding the fact that not only can the armor plating tank heavy blunt force damage and energy output but can also preserve the wearer inside it without any jarring of the brain or other organs (as might be caused by an explosion, for instance); without any disorientation from attacks or high-speed flight; and without the underlying circuitry being destroyed by attacks that may throw the armor off-balance or cause it to crash through durable surfaces or take high falls, I can only conclude that the inside of the suit is very durable and well-protected as well. It may not be as resilient as the outer portions but still difficult to damage, or else, like I said, the armor would break from the inside and the wearer would be injured from outside attacks. So Vader would have to be able to use precise telekinetic technique with some decent power behind it at a moment's notice while War Machine flies around, all the while having other concerns such as defending himself from incoming fire (which has proven to throw off his more precise applications of Telekinesis). 
 
So I find it unlikely for Vader to rip out a couple wires and expect the armor to just fall apart. 

    

But you underestimate the power of the Dark Side =]

...
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#121  Edited By MzombieX
@Silver2467: 
     My font is completely screwed up for some reason and I can't seem to adjust it, so I apologize. I'm having trouble with the sentences and the more I try to edit the worse it gets.  Oh well.
 
 Except for all of the obstacles Vader has that I explained multiple times in paragraph after paragraph that you willingly choose to ignore. 
 

"I've given plenty of reasons as to why Rhodey's concentration and attacks would not even strike their target or be of consequence if Vader strikes first. 
All of your talk of his weaponry in that situation is a non-factor." 
  
 
Then give me a good reason for why Vader should hit first     
 

Already have done this. 
 
  
Understand the concept that Vader is not even durable enough to survive hits from Rhodey, direct or otherwise.

 
 
I have shown you a scan of him taking direct hits from explosives. I think that should be enough to cover durability against indirect explosives.  
 
Considering I am not talking about Vader smashing WM's armor physically. Not talking about Vader surviving direct hits ...  
but instead discussing the chance of WM even hitting him directly in the first place due to being struck by the force and misfiring. 
 
Why do you insist on saying things like "but he won't dent Rhodey's armor" as an answer to everything I say ... when I'm not even talking about him physically attacking the armor. 
Or ... "Vader's armor can't hold up to the power of his weapons" when I've already said a dozen times now, that I agree with you that WM has the power to kill him if he hits him directly.  
I am not argueing this point with you anymore because of two reasons. 
 
1. I never was to begin with 
 
2. It does not apply.

 
Is that so? Because I seem to remember a battalion of stormtroopers arriving as the Jedi were about to kill Vader     
 
The point I was making was in response to the fact that you seem to think that Vader cannot concentrate or use force when being assaulted. 
As if Vader would be completely stymied by any resistance. I simply said that "he has defeated at least 8 Jedi at the same time that I know of." 
Now you are of course right that had help at the end when dealing with the last 3 as your scans show. 
Yet he arrived alone and fought all 8 of them at the same time and fended off attacks from multiple directions while (saber dueling and using force jump and force push and force pull in battle)
I was making the example that he should be given more credit for having the skill to use these abilities and concentrate in battle. 
So you are right on one hand. Yet it still validates the point I was making. So I will rephrase to be more specific for you. 

Vader fought 8 Jedi at the same time by himself. He killed 5 Jedi of those 8 at the same time by himself. He had help with the last 3. 
 
 

 I guess the part of my post where I brought up Rhodey's weapons systems not restrained to his own locomotion went over your head then. 
 
No it didn't. I guess the part of my post where I have described Rhodey not being stable enough to target while crashing out of the sky and dead in about 5 seconds went over your head. 
 

You have been mentioning abilities for Vader that he never even used.

  
Vader's ability to immobilize and use telekinetics such as Force jump, push, pull, grip, choke ... are all within his power. They are enough to kill Rhodey. 
 
 
Now you have a lack of understanding regarding what Force Resistance is     
 

No I don't.  
I wasn't the one who brought up a Jedi breaking Vader's Force Choke ... you did. 
I asked if you could prove that Rhodey is immune to Vader's grip because he's flying around with jet boots.  
and asked for it not to be a Jedi who could possibly use the force to do so ... since you were the one that brought a Jedi up, who broke his choke, as an example. 
I don't know what you were carrying on about in that sentence ... but it did everything but answer my question. 

 
 
 
It is not on me to prove that Vader's Telekinesis is insufficient to damage Rhodey's armor, which would be necessary to disable or destroy his jets. That is on you to prove he can. 
     

I already gave an example with a scan which proved that Vader can do exactly what I suggested he could do. You just disagree that he can do it to War Machine. 
So considering Vader has never fought War Machine, of course I cannot. Yet I gave more reason as to the possability that he is capable of it than you have to prove he could not. 

 

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#122  Edited By Silver2467
@MzombieX said: 

"I've given plenty of reasons as to why Rhodey's concentration and attacks would not even strike their target or be of consequence if Vader strikes first. 
All of your talk of his weaponry in that situation is a non-factor." 

You have made attempts at extrapolating that Vader could send his projectiles away, when his Deflection feats are not even remotely enough to shield him from the majority of Rhodey's weapons, and you claimed that Vader could just attack first and prevent him from attacking at all. Problems: Rhodey is faster, Jedi have attacked Vader while caught in his Choke, and he is not using Deflection against much in this fight. His weapons are not non-factors at all. 
 

Already have done this.

Not at all. 
   

I have shown you a scan of him taking direct hits from explosives. I think that should be enough to cover durability against indirect explosives. 

Rhodey could damage Iron Man's armor with his weapons, and you think those explosions are on the level of War Machine's firepower? Terrible comparison. 
 

Considering I am not talking about Vader smashing WM's armor physically. Not talking about Vader surviving direct hits ...  
but instead discussing the chance of WM even hitting him directly in the first place due to being struck by the force and misfiring. 

Now if only you could say that with any fact behind it, because there are characters who have managed to attack Vader while in his Choke, War Machine is faster than Vader, and Vader still has to breach every hindrance holding him back from landing a Choke in the first place. 
   

Why do you insist on saying things like "but he won't dent Rhodey's armor" as an answer to everything I say ... when I'm not even talking about him physically attacking the armor. 
Or ... "Vader's armor can't hold up to the power of his weapons" when I've already said a dozen times now, that I agree with you that WM has the power to kill him if he hits him directly.  
I am not argueing this point with you anymore because of two reasons. 
 
1. I never was to begin with 
 
2. It does not apply.

Misrepresenting my arguments does not strengthen yours. I said that Vader would be incapable of damaging Rhodey's armor in my last post in the context of the fact that Vader's TK would have to be powerful enough to do that in order to disable War Machine's jets.  
 
As for Rhodey's firepower defeating Vader, you have not proven anything about his inability to land hits on Vader. 
   

The point I was making was in response to the fact that you seem to think that Vader cannot concentrate or use force when being assaulted. 
As if Vader would be completely stymied by any resistance. I simply said that "he has defeated at least 8 Jedi at the same time that I know of." 
Now you are of course right that had help at the end when dealing with the last 3 as your scans show. 
Yet he arrived alone and fought all 8 of them at the same time and fended off attacks from multiple directions while (saber dueling and using force jump and force push and force pull in battle)
I was making the example that he should be given more credit for having the skill to use these abilities and concentrate in battle. 
So you are right on one hand. Yet it still validates the point I was making. So I will rephrase to be more specific for you. 

Vader fought 8 Jedi at the same time by himself. He killed 5 Jedi of those 8 at the same time by himself. He had help with the last 3. 

You still never read it; so you can stop telling me what happened, especially since you conveniently left out a few details. The Jedi were in discord amongst themselves when this fight broke out, one of the Jedi killed another, and the Jedi only attacked Vader one or two at a time. Vader would have lost were it not for the stormtroopers unexpected arrival, and this is on top of the other factors that benefited Vader. And no, it does not enhance your point, because Vader's Telekinesis was hardly a major issue in that duel. Not to mention the fact that the Jedi were at much closer range than War Machine would be, attacked Vader in lightsaber duels instead of firing with heavy projectile weapons, and lacks his durability.  
 
So again, poor comparison. 
 

No it didn't. I guess the part of my post where I have described Rhodey not being stable enough to target while crashing out of the sky and dead in about 5 seconds went over your head. 

No pressure on responding to my posts. Really, ignoring them is a fair tactic... 
 
@Silver2467 said: 

Show me one example where Vader has shown the precision to use Choke or (for any other organ in Rhodey's body) Crush on an enemy moving at high speeds in the air. Show me an example where Vader has managed to claim any hold with Choke or Crush while an enemy is firing at him, because I can show examples of Vader losing his grip over an opponent due to flinching from an assault. In regards to you mentioning that War Machine would meet a whirlwind, Vader never used Force Whirlwind. As for simply hurling War Machine telekinetically, he may be able to accomplish something similar to that considering his telekinetic feats, but there are stipulations. For one thing, pushing or throwing War Machine will cause little, if any damage to the armor. Rhodey may simply re-stabilize his position in the air via flight. If Vader were to use a tactic such as using Force Pull to draw Rhodey toward his direction in order to impale him on his lightsaber, he can still be met with the resistance of the suit's flight capabilities pushing War Machine the other way. He is not exempt from being fired upon in this situation either. On top of that, I would favor Rhodey's ability to fire the first shot before Vader has the opportunity to try this. Assuming Vader can use Deflection to protect against bullets (very plausible), he still is not defended against the destructive capacity pitted against him. Vader has some impressive durability and pain tolerance feats, but none of them are at a stage where it can be concluded for him to survive attacks from War Machine. Now, you stated that Vader is able to completely immobilize War Machine. This is debatable, first and foremost, since, while Vader can unleash a fair amount of telekinetic power without serious strain, the majority of his best telekinetic feats required concentration, and as I said above, I find it more likely for Rhodey to shoot first (when understanding that Vader is somewhat slow in combat and has actually hesitated during battles, often times for the desired effect of assessing a situation or creating a "calm before the storm," so to speak). Assuming Vader could immobilize him though, not all of War Machine's weapons necessitate any locomotion on the part of his limbs. He could shoot at Vader with both his hands at his sides by making proper use of his shoulder-mounted cannons, for all it matters. 

 
 @Silver2467 said: 

No, actually, it does not further your point. The best telekinetic feat I know of for Vader was moving a helicarrier-like ship during the Clone Wars, but that only translates to this battle so well because of the fact that no one was actively shooting at him, he needed concentration to accomplish this (something Rhodey will doubtless not allow for), and the ship itself was stationary in the air. It was not flying any particular direction, thus offering no resistance to his telekinetic control. This cannot be applied to this because of these situational factors. Vader could telekinetically move War Machine, but that would not damage or weaken the armor in any way and, as a result, stands to reason that it would not increase Vader's chances of winning. One other issue I missed pertaining to Vader moving War Machine telekinetically is the fact that in spite of the armor's size and weight, Vader would need to apply several tons of force to move it. Iron Man and War Machine have traded blows with physically superhuman characters, and while they can and have been punched hard enough to send them flying over certain distances, this is not something easily done. There are superhuman characters that War Machine could shrug off punches from without changing his position an inch, much less battering him around. So, there is the issue of War Machine attacking Vader (which can decrease the odds of him successfully using Choke), War Machine's resiliency shielding from any potential harm from simply throwing his armor, his flight making moving his armor more difficult, and the amount of force required to move him at all.

  

Vader's ability to immobilize and use telekinetics such as Force jump, push, pull, grip, choke ... are all within his power. They are enough to kill Rhodey. 

You have mentioned Lightning, the ability to shut off his armor (whether you knew that was Ionize or not), Whirlwind, and Repulse. These are abilities Vader does not know that you passed off for him. 
 

No I don't.  
I wasn't the one who brought up a Jedi breaking Vader's Force Choke ... you did. 
I asked if you could prove that Rhodey is immune to Vader's grip because he's flying around with jet boots.  
and asked for it not to be a Jedi who could possibly use the force to do so ... since you were the one that brought a Jedi up, who broke his choke, as an example. 
I don't know what you were carrying on about in that sentence ... but it did everything but answer my question.

What in the world are you talking about? You claimed that Jedi are able to break Vader's Choke because they can resist the Force. Regardless of whether or not you were aware that that is an actual power called Force Resistance, it was not a legitimate defense. I have never seen Vader duel or even attempt Choke on a Jedi who learned a special resistance against Choke. So your point is irrelevant.  
 
As for Jedi resisting Choke because of flight.....how many flying Jedi has Vader fought? Answer that, and you will understand how ridiculous your question is. I mentioned Jedi breaking out of his Choke by attacking him, not by flying. That was an entirely different issue I brought up, the full nature of which you never really accounted for either. 
 

I already gave an example with a scan which proved that Vader can do exactly what I suggested he could do. You just disagree that he can do it to War Machine. 
So considering Vader has never fought War Machine, of course I cannot. Yet I gave more reason as to the possability that he is capable of it than you have to prove he could not. 

You still failed to account for the durability of the armor, preventing him from managing that in the first place; War Machine's distance; Vader's being attacked; and the differentiations between technology in Star Wars, which Vader is actually familiar with, and Stark Tech. 
 
@Silver2467 said:   

This ignores what I said about precision and Vader's inability sustain precise hold over any given portion of an object or person when faced with an oncoming attack. If this were basic Telekinesis, such as Push, Pull, or Throw, then, yes, Vader could still use this while being bombarded with attacks (although if War Machine is firing at him while Vader does this, his telekinetic hold over him will cease because he will be incapacitated/killed by his firepower). He also has no idea about the systematics of the War Machine armor either. He can guess at placements of mandatory circuitry and machinery, but he has no prior knowledge of the suit itself. And in case anyone wants to argue that Vader would already know how the suit operates at some length because of his technical finesse, this is technology manufactured by one Marvel's most experienced and accomplished inventors. It is not tech from his universe where Vader may know its functions beforehand. Also, I have never once seen Vader ascertain information about the workings of a piece of machinery just by looking at it. He usually has to dismantle it and search over the inner components. However, if Vader did gain some knowledge of the War Machine suit's design, understanding the fact that not only can the armor plating tank heavy blunt force damage and energy output but can also preserve the wearer inside it without any jarring of the brain or other organs (as might be caused by an explosion, for instance); without any disorientation from attacks or high-speed flight; and without the underlying circuitry being destroyed by attacks that may throw the armor off-balance or cause it to crash through durable surfaces or take high falls, I can only conclude that the inside of the suit is very durable and well-protected as well. It may not be as resilient as the outer portions but still difficult to damage, or else, like I said, the armor would break from the inside and the wearer would be injured from outside attacks. So Vader would have to be able to use precise telekinetic technique with some decent power behind it at a moment's notice while War Machine flies around, all the while having other concerns such as defending himself from incoming fire (which has proven to throw off his more precise applications of Telekinesis). 
 
So I find it unlikely for Vader to rip out a couple wires and expect the armor to just fall apart. 

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#123  Edited By MzombieX
@Silver2467: 
 
Fine ... you don't think Vader has any chance to kill Rhodey. Good enough for me. There isn't any point discussing it further ...  
since you once again have responded to the large majority of my post completely out of context from anything I was saying. 
It makes it difficult to discuss when you are going off on tangents that skip around the points and don't address them in any concrete way.
As well as digging up points that were discussed and put aside several pages ago that currently have nothing to do with the situation 
and trying to debate those same things over again ... just to complicate things even further. 
I'll assume you give that match to War Machine 10 out of 10 
I give it to Vader 7 out of 10
 
  
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#124  Edited By Silver2467
@MzombieX said:
" @Silver2467:  Fine ... you don't think Vader has any chance to kill Rhodey. Good enough for me. There isn't any point discussing it further ...  since you once again have responded to the large majority of my post completely out of context from anything I was saying. It makes it difficult to discuss when you are going off on tangents that skip around the points and don't address them in any concrete way.As well as digging up points that were discussed and put aside several pages ago that currently have nothing to do with the situation and trying to debate those same things over again ... just to complicate things even further. I'll assume you give that match to War Machine 10 out of 10 I give it to Vader 7 out of 10    "
Not a very good defense when your entire case rested on ignoring significant portions of my posts and misrepresenting isolated phrases removed from the whole. 
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#125  Edited By PowerHerc

Marvel all the way.
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#126  Edited By Silver2467
@PowerHerc said:

" Marvel all the way. "

@Silver2467 said: 

Fair enough. Let me clarify.  
 
For Sidious, read this. 
http://www.comicvine.com/myvine/silver2467/darth-sidious-respect/87-63101/  
 
For Luke, he has telekinetically pushed a few guards against a wall so hard that their torsos burst, rebuilt/destroyed a fortress, supported the weight of starships, held in place/moved a black hole, collapsed an AT-AT, and knocked over a rancor with a gesture, among other feats. He knows abilities such as Protection, Absorption, Deflection, and Barrier that have allowed him to catch blaster bolts in his hands, tank AT-AT blaster bolts, deflect sprays of lava, walk across lava, and withstand heavy impact forces. As for speed, Luke has deflected dozes of blaster bolts in all directions with his lightsaber (before RotS, by the way), dominated Lumiya with his speed, kept up with Caedus while injured, held out against Palpatine's combat speed, moved too fast for any of the Jedi in his Order to notice him (in other words, moving too fast for characters with super speed to notice), has fought fast enough that he appeared to have 20 lightsabers, and other speed feats. Luke also has a heavy amount of versatility, such as his various telepathic abilities (Illusion, Mind Control, Confusion, hypnosis, sleep inducement, etc.), invisibility by use of Force Cloak (he once turned a kilometer and half long ship, theVagabond, invisible), teleportation by use of Fold Space, immovability (Luke once made himself so immovable that not even a black hole could move him), Precognition, Shatterpoint, the ability to see through walls, Healing, machine shut down/dismantling by use of Ionize, and several other abilities. Luke would wreck Venom. "

 @Silver2467 said: 
Yoda and Windu are extremely fast, first of all. You saw a video of Windu in the Clone Wars show. Yoda has similar speed feats to Windu. During his duel with Tyranus, Yoda's lightsaber was creating numerous afterimages, he has blitzed multiple droids, he has deflected dozens of blaster bolts with his lightsaber easily, was described in his duel with Palpatine as "a tornado of feet and fist and blades" (Yoda is not as fast as Sidious is, but the fact that he was able to fight is speaks volumes), and he has other speed feats. For strength, Yoda has been able to throw melee strikes with superhuman force and carried a massive cannon in a crate on his back, seemingly for miles. Yoda's telekinetic feats have allowed him to crush and break through durable surfaces; send more than a dozen enemies flying with one Push; lift and move starships during combat, sometimes doing so in order to crash enemy fighters into one another; was effortlessly throwing senate pods during his duel with Palpatine (in the EU, not the movie, obviously); knows Lightsaber Throw; and has simulated telekinetic lightsaber combat, as a few examples. Sue's shields are resistant/immune to psi-based powers, but Force-derived Telekinesis and Telepathy are not psi-based. They are simply an application of Force energies. So, it could be argued that he could penetrate her shield telekinetically (considering the power he can generate from his telekinetic bursts). Even if this were to fail, Yoda can simply blitz Sue.   As for Iron Fist, I read The Immortal Iron Fist annual; so I know what instance you are referring to with his catching a bullet. But that really is not sufficient. Both Yoda and Windu fight faster than bullets. And even if they were only equal to or slightly slower, Danny only caught one bullet. He would not be prepared to avoid numerous saber slashes in multiple directions. Windu has speed feats such as being invisible to Anakin during to his duel with Sidious (Anakin is very fast as well, by the way), fighting so fast that he appeared to have over a dozen lightsabers when he only had one, matching Kar Vastor's combat speed, matching Tyranus' combat speed, holding his own against Sidious (Palpatine appeared as a blur to Windu in their duel, which is not a low showing if you know how fast Sidious is, but Windu still managed to fight against him), and he has other such speed feats. Danny is not fast enough or resilient enough match Windu. "
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Movie Versions of Star Wars?

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#128  Edited By PirateKing69
@comicdude23: no it shouldn't be because some of the Star wars ppl weren't in the movies
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#131  Edited By jamhand

Nice job kids, let me present you now the right answers : (Winners Bolded)

Darth Vader vs War Machine

General Grievous vs Spiderman

Darth Maul vs Gambit

Mace Windu vs Iron Fist

Yoda vs Invisible Woman

Boba Fett vs Black Panther

Jango Fett vs Punisher

Obi-Wan vs Storm

Luke Skywalker vs Venom

Count Dooku vs Electro

Aura Sing vs Deadpool (KO)

Durge (KO) vs Iron Patriot

Ahsoka Tano vs Wolverine

Darth Sidious vs Hulk

Starkiller vs Iron Man

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#132  Edited By DarthElmender
No Caption Provided

Just leaving this here. It sums up all Palpatine threads with JediXMan, Silver and ShootingNova involved.

PS. Don't start to argue with them, they have no reasoning.

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Darth Vader vs War Machine

General Grievous vs Spiderman

Darth Maul vs Gambit

Mace Windu vs Iron Fist

Yoda vs Invisible Woman

Boba Fett vs Black Panther

Jango Fett vs Punisher

Obi-Wan vs Storm

Luke Skywalker vs Venom

Count Dooku vs Electro

Aura Sing vs Deadpool (KO)

Durge (KO) vs Iron Patriot (depends on who's wearing the armor)

Ahsoka Tano vs Wolverine

Darth Sidious vs Hulk

Starkiller vs Iron Man

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@montaq said:

Darth Vader

vs War Machine

General Grievous vs

Spiderman

Darth Maul

vs Gambit

Mace Windu

vs Iron Fist

Yoda

vs Invisible Woman

Boba Fett vs

Black Panther

Jango Fett vs

Punisher

Obi-Wan

vs Storm

Luke Skywalker

vs Venom

Count Dooku

vs Electro

Aura Sing

vs Deadpool (KO)

Durge (KO) vs

Iron Patriot

Ahsoka Tano vs

Wolverine

Darth Sidious

vs Hulk

Starkiller

vs Iron Man

This.

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Marvel wins due to the fact that the force only exists in their galaxy.

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schillenger420

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Vader beats Warmachine with either force choke or crush. He attacks the man in the suit and there's not a whole hell of a lot Rhodes can do about it.

Spiderman takes Grevious. Beating folks that are stronger than him is kind of his shtick and if this is Parker in his prime I see no reason why he shouldn't take the majority.

Maul beats Gambit. As soon as Maul see's Gambit throwing explosives at him he just force pushes everything back or away. Gambit's good, but so is Maul, and Maul's much more versatile.

Mace beats Ironfist. Windu has some crazy feats in the animated series and he's was the only Jedi both fast enough and good enough to legit beat Palpatine. Yoda didn't even pull that off.

I'm rolling with the Invisible Woman over Yoda. She's one of the more powerful Marvel characters and as skilled as Yoda may be, I don't see why she couldn't trap him in some kind of invisible box or bubble of some sort. I realize this pick goes against the grain.... but I really do think she's that powerful.

Both Fett's win. This being Black Panther without vibranium gear I see him going down to the intergalactic bounty hunter. Jengo vs. the Punisher to me isn't even really a fight, more of a spite stomp for Jengo.

Storm beat's Obi-wan. This one's tough and could probably go either way, but Storm can do some pretty tricky stuff, what with hurricane winds and snap freezing, sucking the air from the body, etc. I know she''s a glass cannon, but she's one hell of a cannon.

Luke beats Venom in what amounts to a spite stomp. This fights just ridiculous.

Dooku should be able to beat Electro. He's more versatile and knows a thing or two about electricity. Probably a pretty close fight though.

Aura Sing likely beats Deadpool if only because DP's too busy cracking jokes and playing games. On the other hand this might drive her to distraction allowing Pool a shot. I'm rolling with Sing for the majority.

I don't know enough about Durge to really say but if he can use either force choke or crush, he wins the same way Vader does.

Wolverine takes down Tano. Ashoka tends to be impulsive and leaps before she looks. Wolverine's experience will give him the upper hand.

Sidious beats the Hulk. Palpatine knows a thing or two about rage and anger, and he knows how to use his opponents anger against them. I know the Hulk is pretty mean, but Palpatine is pretty damn beastly and like the rest of the Jedi, extremely versatile.

I don't know enough about Starkiller, but I'll give him the battle if he's shown the ability to force crush or choke. The Iron Suit's are very easy for a skilled dark jedi to drop.

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Intrepid37

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How is Spiderman beating Grievous? Grievous is just too fast and strong.

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JediXMan

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#140 JediXMan  Moderator

I'm rolling with the Invisible Woman over Yoda. She's one of the more powerful Marvel characters and as skilled as Yoda may be, I don't see why she couldn't trap him in some kind of invisible box or bubble of some sort. I realize this pick goes against the grain.... but I really do think she's that powerful.

Yoda picked up a transport filled with tanks and pulled down another transport filled with tanks, then crashed them together.

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schillenger420

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@intrepid37: Because beating guys that are stronger than him is kinda what Spiderman does? He's also an absolute master at using the environment, and as fast as Grevious is Spiderman can match him. It's not a fight Spiderman wins all the time, nor is it one he wins easily or quickly.... but do I think he'd take a majority outta 10.... Yeah.

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ShootingNova

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#142  Edited By ShootingNova
@intrepid37 said:

How is Spiderman beating Grievous? Grievous is just too fast and strong.

He isn't.

@schillenger420 said:

Vader beats Warmachine with either force choke or crush. He attacks the man in the suit and there's not a whole hell of a lot Rhodes can do about it.

Spiderman takes Grevious. Beating folks that are stronger than him is kind of his shtick and if this is Parker in his prime I see no reason why he shouldn't take the majority.

Maul beats Gambit. As soon as Maul see's Gambit throwing explosives at him he just force pushes everything back or away. Gambit's good, but so is Maul, and Maul's much more versatile.

Mace beats Ironfist. Windu has some crazy feats in the animated series and he's was the only Jedi both fast enough and good enough to legit beat Palpatine. Yoda didn't even pull that off.

I'm rolling with the Invisible Woman over Yoda. She's one of the more powerful Marvel characters and as skilled as Yoda may be, I don't see why she couldn't trap him in some kind of invisible box or bubble of some sort. I realize this pick goes against the grain.... but I really do think she's that powerful.

Both Fett's win. This being Black Panther without vibranium gear I see him going down to the intergalactic bounty hunter. Jengo vs. the Punisher to me isn't even really a fight, more of a spite stomp for Jengo.

Storm beat's Obi-wan. This one's tough and could probably go either way, but Storm can do some pretty tricky stuff, what with hurricane winds and snap freezing, sucking the air from the body, etc. I know she''s a glass cannon, but she's one hell of a cannon.

Luke beats Venom in what amounts to a spite stomp. This fights just ridiculous.

Dooku should be able to beat Electro. He's more versatile and knows a thing or two about electricity. Probably a pretty close fight though.

Aura Sing likely beats Deadpool if only because DP's too busy cracking jokes and playing games. On the other hand this might drive her to distraction allowing Pool a shot. I'm rolling with Sing for the majority.

I don't know enough about Durge to really say but if he can use either force choke or crush, he wins the same way Vader does.

Wolverine takes down Tano. Ashoka tends to be impulsive and leaps before she looks. Wolverine's experience will give him the upper hand.

Sidious beats the Hulk. Palpatine knows a thing or two about rage and anger, and he knows how to use his opponents anger against them. I know the Hulk is pretty mean, but Palpatine is pretty damn beastly and like the rest of the Jedi, extremely versatile.

I don't know enough about Starkiller, but I'll give him the battle if he's shown the ability to force crush or choke. The Iron Suit's are very easy for a skilled dark jedi to drop.

Vader loses to War Machine by virtue of being slower and having no answer for most of his attacks.

Marek loses to Iron Man for the same reason.

Mace was amped tremendously when he fought Palpatine, and his TK feats in the animated CW were exaggerated.

I stand by what JXM said about Yoda.

As for Durge, he is not a force sensitive so he can't use any form of telekinesis. He is just possesses ridiculous durability and regeneration feats:
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schillenger420

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@jedixman: I know Yoda's done some really neat stuff, but he's more of a counselor than an actual combatant. I'm not saying he can't beat Sue, but I really don't think it'd be that easy for him. Shoot, if this is an angry Invisible Woman she put's a bubble in his brain.... literally one shots him. I know that's against her nature, but it's something she should be pretty easily capable of it comes to all that.

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JediXMan

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#144  Edited By JediXMan  Moderator

@jedixman: I know Yoda's done some really neat stuff, but he's more of a counselor than an actual combatant.

And yet he is the second most powerful Jedi on record (with Luke in the undisputed #1 spot), the best duelist of his time, and is still in the top 5 Jed / Sith of all time.

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#145 JediXMan  Moderator

@intrepid37: Because beating guys that are stronger than him is kinda what Spiderman does?

That's not a good argument. We go by feats, not an unrealistic plot device.

He's also an absolute master at using the environment, and as fast as Grevious is Spiderman can match him. It's not a fight Spiderman wins all the time, nor is it one he wins easily or quickly.... but do I think he'd take a majority outta 10.... Yeah.

Grievous is fast enough to stagger one of the best duelists of the time (Obi-Wan) and has killed multiple Jedi Masters. The guy is a beast with incredible speed and a tactical mind (despite the fact that he sucks - I say that for personal reasons).

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ShootingNova

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This can be a minor reference for Grievous's abilities, but do take note that that dueling of his is exaggerated here:

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#147  Edited By JediXMan  Moderator

This can be a minor reference for Grievous's abilities, but do take note that that dueling of his is exaggerated here:

It's how the movies should have depicted him, though... -_-

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ShootingNova

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@jedixman: You mean RotS? Yeah, and that set up the way for things like this:

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JediXMan

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#149 JediXMan  Moderator

@shootingnova:

Did I say that I hate TCW today? No? Have to rectify that:

I hate TCW.

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ShootingNova

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#150  Edited By ShootingNova

@jedixman:

LOL. I wonder what inspired RotS to portray Grievous as such. TCW obviously fell in love with RotS Grievous.

EDIT: Wow, half my post got deleted. Disregard the video I posted earlier because it was about an irrelevant topic anyways, and the explanation was deleted.