Star Wars Era Gauntlets: Darth Malgus

An idea @i_like_swords and myself came up with, and one he shared a while back. Essentially, one character will run through gauntlets from several eras to see where people place him within those eras. You don't need to answer for every era. Just answer for which eras you're most comfortable with.

Darth Malgus runs the following gauntlets:

Clone Wars Gauntlet

1. Aayla Secura
2. AotC Obi-Wan Kenobi
3. Tholme
4. Quinlan Vos
5. Shaak Ti (TFU)
6. Plo Koon
7. Obi-Wan Kenobi
8. Darth Maul
9. Count Dooku
10. Anakin Skywalker

TotJ/KotoR Gauntlet

1. Juhani
2. Yusanis
3. Darth Bandon
4. Mandalore the Ultimate
5. Meetra Surik
6. Darth Malak
7. Ulic Qel-Droma
8. Darth Traya
9. KotoR Revan
10. Exar Kun

SWTOR

1. Lana Beniko
2. Exal Kressh
3. Darth Angral
4. Lord Scourge
5. Darth Thanaton
6. Darth Baras
7. Darth Marr
8. First Son
9. Darth Nox
10. SOR Revan

NJO

1. Leia Organa Solo
2. Shedao Shai
3. Corran Horn
4. Tsavong Lah
5. Saba Sebatyne
6. Mara Jade Skywalker
7. Lumiya
8. Kyp Durron
9. Jaina Solo
10. Darth Caedus

Settings

• Malgus has full rest/health after every fight
• Standard gear
• In character, morals on
• Neither side has prior knowledge on their opponent
• Location: Petranaki Arena
• Fights are to the death, KO or incapacitation

CW gauntlet: Obi-Wan or Maul.

TotJ/KotOR gauntlet: Ulic.

SWTOR gauntlet: Not sure.

NJO gauntlet: Jaina. Perhaps Kyp and/or Mara too.

Clone wars: Stops at Dooku or Anakin

TOTJ/KOTOR: Stops at Exar Kun

SWTOR: Stops at Revan

NJO: Not Sure. People like Saba and Kyp can give him great fights, not sure if they win a majority over him though. Probably stops at one of the twins.

CW gauntlet: He could stop at Obi-Wan if he doesn't abuse his power to an extent far enough to overwhelm Kenobi's durability and resistance. Otherwise he shall fall to Kenobi, for majority, if you ask me. No way he can get past Maul or Dooku.

TotJ/KotOR gauntlet: It is the most clear one, to be honest. He should definitely get to Ulic, and equally definitely fall to Ulic.

SWTOR gauntlet: 8 could have a shot through power, but a small one. Nox might be able to win via her ghost-connection, simply not falling where she should be down, surprising Malgus, and stuff. Would fall to SOR Revan after a neat fight definitely.

NJO gauntlet: Mara has skill edge, tactical edge, greater versatility, but is at a huge disadvantage with Malgus's powers, and his superior physical traits. It could potentially go either way, both have advantages and weaknesses. Lumiya is perfectly suited with her weaponry and its utilization, and with her undoubtful advantage in general combative skill, however she is at an insane disadvantage if Malgus resorts to his powers. It could go either way, really. Then we have Kyp, who is far more powerful, but is worse in every way regarding actual combat. He would definitely fall to Jaina though in a very good combat. He would never win a round against Caedus though.

CW: Loses to Maul, probably.

TotJ/KotOR: Yeah, he could lose to Ulic. I'll stick by him and try to present arguments for him if it's necessary.

SWTOR: Revan's the only one who you can make a case for definitely downing Malgus, so I'll stick with him to be safe.

NJO: Dies at Jaina, probably.

Clone Wars: Maul. More skilled, close enough in the Force to not to be stomped there, faster, better tactical fighters, and possibly more powerful physically speaking.

TOTJ/KOTOR: Ulic. More skilled, powerful enough not to get rag-dolled.

SWTOR: Revan. Has him beat in almost all categories relevant to a duel.

NJO: Kyp. Far more powerful in the Force, and a case could be made for him being equally as skilled.

Kyp's a talented duelist and more credit needs to be given for him in that area, but he's definitely not equally skilled as Malgus.

I said case could be made for him being there, not that he is there. Obviously I have Kyp ranked as good as ANH Vader, if not a bit above that mark.

Regardless, mind actually explaining why Malgus is more skilled than Kyp unquestionably, other than throwing out statements I'm meant to adhere to, for no reason other than he's Malgus, and Kyp's Kyp?

If a case could be made for him, that means there's at least a possibility of that being the case, which I just don't agree with.

Malgus has beaten Ven Zallow, a superior duelist to the Battlemaster (Kao Cen Darach, who as capable of fending off Return Malgus and Vindican simultaneously), and who has blitzed several of the Empire's greatest Sith Warriors.

If a case could be made for him, that means there's at least a possibility of that being the case.

Which I stand by.

which I just don't agree with.

Good for you.

Malgus has beaten Ven Zallow, a superior duelist to the Battlemaster (Kao Cen Darach, who as capable of fending off Return Malgus and Vindican simultaneously)

I honestly don't see how Zallow is superior to Jaina Solo that Kyp stalemated.

and who has blitzed several of the Empire's greatest Sith Warriors.

Kyp has wrecked a phalanx of Yuuzhan Vong Warriors with ease alongside other Jedi, I say that's more than comparable to him taking down fodder Sith Warriors.

Still not seeing Malgus unquestioned superiority over Durron with a Lightsaber.

Got quotes for these two (forgive me if I've already asked)? They weren't fodder, by the way. They were the Empire's "most elite" warriors. Above what we call fodder at least.

@i_like_swords:

He blew out a long sigh. “When is another pilot due to go out?” “She’s powering up now,” Jaina admitted. The older Jedi spun toward the door. Jaina pulled her lightsaber. Kyp stopped dead at the click and hum unique to the traditional Jedi weapon. He slowly turned to face her, hands raised in a placating gesture. “I don’t want to fight you.” Her violet blade rose toward his throat. “You’d change your mind if the stakes were high enough.” “Don’t be ridiculous. You wouldn’t kill me even if you could!” “The idea isn’t without a certain appeal, but it’s not what I had in mind. If I win, you fly the rest of this battle under my command. If you win, I’m yours. No more holding out, no more games. I’ll keep the channels open, act like a real apprentice.” He considered her for a long moment. “Done."

His lightsaber leapt from his belt, flipped in midair, and slapped down into his hand. The glowing blade hissed toward her. Jaina vaulted above the flamboyant attack and flipped over Kyp’s head. He rolled aside to avoid a possible slashing counter and came up in a crouch. Jaina backed down the stairs, her weapon at high guard. He advanced, then darted forward with a quick feinting lunge. She anticipated his move and leaned away from it, then quickly changed directions and lunged for him, sweeping her arm up into a rising parry that threw his lightsaber out wide. Her wrist twisted deftly to disengage the shining blades, and then she leapt straight up. Kyp somersaulted down the stairs, turned, and came up with his lightsaber held high and ready. The younger Jedi dropped to the floor beside him and delivered two quick, testing jabs. He parried both. They drew apart and circled, taking each other’s measure, exchanging blows that became less tentative with each strike. Jaina’s confident smile began to falter. “I’m not going to let you stop this next flight.” She whirled away from Kyp’s high, slashing attack and caught his weapon in an overhead parry. A quick twist brought her around to face him. He disengaged and stepped back. “Who said I wanted to stop the mission? I want to fly it.” Jaina blinked. “You do?” “If the mission is that important, I’ll go myself.” “Forget it. The Jedi are too few and too valuable to risk.” “I know,” he agreed, “and that’s precisely why I need to go.” She stepped back, still in guard position, and eyed him warily.

“Let’s just say I’m taking my responsibilities seriously. I don’t want my apprentice to make some of the same mistakes I made.” Jaina’s lightsaber flashed forward, forcing him to parry. “What apprentice? You haven’t beaten me yet.” “I will,” he said with a cocky smile. “And we both know it. We also know how difficult expectations can be. You’ve got to live up to your famous parents, which in some ways is even more difficult than living down a monumental failure.” “You can’t compare our situations.” “We both lost brothers.” “And maybe hitting the Yuuzhan Vong hard will give some meaning to my brothers’ deaths.” “I tried to avenge my brother,” Kyp reminded her, “and I ended up killing him. Your mother thinks Jacen’s still alive. What if she’s right? Jaina lowered her lightsaber, and her face was a study of stunned fury. The older Jedi shifted his weight to the balls of his feet, gaining balance in preparation for the coming attack. But Jaina switched off her weapon. “You want the mission? Take it. But you’d better survive it. We’re not finished here. Not by a long shot.”

----Excerpt from Dark Journey.

As it happened, the two Jedi didn’t have long to wait. Rounding a corner in the passageway, they found themselves faced with a phalanx of Yuuzhan Vong warriors, into whose midst Randa charged, knocking half a dozen aside before any of those left standing could land blows against the Hutt’s mostly impervious hide. Kyp and Ganner followed up the brash offensive, felling their opponents with precise strikes to susceptible spots in the warriors’ armor.

---Excerpt from Agents of Chaos II: Jedi Eclipse

They weren't fodder, by the way. They were the Empire's "most elite" warriors. Above what we call fodder at least.

Fair enough.

@dccomicsrule2011:

1. Great.

2. You know, it's meant to be read with the the point above and not on its own, hence why I marked a comma in between.

3. That's pre-prime Jaina Solo, who, as far as I know, was not yet better than Ven Zallow. I never said Zallow was better than her, by the way, he only has to be even with her for Malgus to beat her because... you know, he beat Zallow.

4. Sure, Kyp could be even with Ven, who lost to Malgus. And no, it's not fodder Sith Warriors, it's the very best of the Empire, which makes them as good as the Vong warriors that Kyp fought, if not better.

To be honest, a better feat/accolade to bring up would be Luke's quote in FotJ, where he placed Kyp within a tier of Kyle and beyond Cilghal's tier. As I recall, Cilghal stomped Sothais Saar, who in turn has beaten Mandalorian Commandos (who have blitzed Jedi Padawans). Kyle speaks for himself, as I'm sure you know. I still don't put that above Ven Zallow, though.

Regardless, your point was that Kyp is close enough to Malgus in sabers such that he can win if he abuses Force attacks, which is a fair argument and one that I don't necessarily disagree with. I just disagree with him being just as skilled.

Clone Wars:

I have always wanted to see Obi and Malgus fight, but I would back Malgus via raw force power, so I would say he gets to Maul where he should stop.

Kotor:

I have to agree with most others here, I would say he stops at Ulic.

SWTOR:

I always thought Darth Marr was rather awesome with his voice, but feats for him seem to be rather... sparse. The only one I can recall is him beating down his apprentice, Darth Lachris... Man needs more screen time.

Darth Nox will be better answered after the new expansion when they extend the personal story lines, as such, I will say SOR Revan is where he stops.

NJO:

Jaina. Comes to a full stop should he reach Caedus.

1. CW Down at Dooku or Anakin, Maul has a shot due to skill though

2. Most likely Ulic

3. Revan

4. Depending on the iteration probably Jaina, in a stellar fight. No chance at Jacen,

Why doesn't Obi-Wan have a shot too?

Clone Wars: Kenobi can potentially stop him. Though he'll more than likely stop at Maul or Dooku.

ToTJ/KoTOR: Ulic has a shot. Though Malgus can probably make it to Revan or Kun, tbh.

SWTOR: Eh Nox has the potential to stop him, but I doubt it. He'll make it to SOR Revan, and then go down.

NJO: Stops at Mara or Lumiya. He might make it to Jaina if I'm being generous.

Probably because he could be ragdolled.

I like these gauntlets. I agree with most of what's been posted.

CW - Kenobi or Maul

TotJ/Kotor - Ulic, and if not he could make it to Exar

SWTOR - Not sure, but he's not beating SOR Revan.

NJO - Kyp or Jaina.

Prove it.

@playa1: The fact that Malgus's telekinetic feats (such as blasting away rubble that was once part of two buildings while injured) are just as good as Maul's, who has ragdolled Obi-Wan before.

@shootingnova:

1. Great.

Alright.

2. You know, it's meant to be read with the the point above and not on its own, hence why I marked a comma in between.

> Implying I didn't know that already.

3. That's pre-prime Jaina Solo

No shit, Sherlock.

who, as far as I know, was not yet better than Ven Zallow.

That depends on how you rank them.

Jaina has wrecked Vong Warriors in groups, or individually in Dark Journey, Star By Star and Ylesia - she was able to best a Yuuzhan Vong Warmaster while hindered to a significant degree (though it wasn't strictly through skill she won), and was able to fight her way through a horde of Voxyn alongside other Jacen and Anakin. I would personally rank Jaina a bit above Zallow giving her showing against a varying amount of orthodox, and unorthodox opponents, while being hindered and still adapting and getting wins despite it.

All in all, I hold a prime Jaina as someone who can match the likes of Darth Maul and Obi-Wan Kenobi in a duel----at this point, I could see her being a fighter who's a bit below that mark.

I never said Zallow was better than her, by the way,he only has to be even with her for Malgus to beat her because... you know, he beat Zallow.

I never said you did. I was simply building on my argument why Malgus unquestionable superiority to Kyp is utter bullshit. Perhaps he is a better duelist, but to say he's definitely not as skilled as Malgus, like it's an sacred taboo to suggest otherwise, is something I ain't seeing.

Sure, Kyp could be even with Ven,who lost to Malgus.

But he isn't.

And no, it's not fodder Sith Warriors, it's the very best of the Empire.

Okay, they were top tier-fodder, happy now?

which makes them as good as the Vong warriors that Kyp fought, if not better.

Kyp has wrecked a Yuuzhan Vong Warrior that was as skilled as he was with an amphistaff via superior tactical ability, and such. I would call that top tier fodder as well, tbh.

To be honest, a better feat/accolade to bring up would be Luke's quote in FotJ, where he placed Kyp within a tier of Kyle and beyond Cilghal's tier. As I recall, Cilghal stomped Sothais Saar, who in turn has beaten Mandalorian Commandos (who have blitzed Jedi Padawans). Kyle speaks for himself, as I'm sure you know. I still don't put that above Ven Zallow, though.

Kyp being on Kyle's tier would mean he is around the level of Ventress as a duelist, because that is where I rank Katarn. If that was true, he is certainly above the likes of Ven.

Regardless, your point was that Kyp is close enough to Malgus in sabers such that he can win if he abuses Force attacks, which is a fair argument and one that I don't necessarily disagree with.

Okey dokey.

I just disagree with him being just as skilled.

Alrighty then - we can agree to disagree.

@dccomicsrule2011:

> Implying I didn't know that already.

No shit, Sherlock.

Well, after that, I'm not really sure you do.

Jaina has wrecked Vong Warriors in groups, or individually in Dark Journey, Star By Star and Ylesia - she was able to best a Yuuzhan Vong Warmaster while hindered to a significant degree (though it wasn't strictly through skill she won), and was able to fight her way through a horde of Voxyn alongside other Jacen and Anakin. I would personally rank Jaina a bit above Zallow giving her showing against a varying amount of orthodox, and unorthodox opponents, while being hindered and still adapting and getting wins despite it.

Jaina's feats are better in the sense that she performed them under negative circumstances, but I'd say the warriors Ven fought were at least as good as the Vong, but on top of that, Zallow actually beat them nigh-effortlessly, so it balances out. The feats are roughly equal - the opponents were of similar quality, Jaina performed her feats under hindering circumstances, and Zallow performed his feats with greater ease.

All in all, I hold a prime Jaina as someone who can match the likes of Darth Maul and Obi-Wan Kenobi in a duel----at this point, I could see her being a fighter who's a bit below that mark.

Considering Jaina's Skywalker potential and the fact that she continuously trained and fought for a decade since NJO to reach her prime, I think it's fair to submit that she's logically going to improve more than just "a bit" by the end of Fate of the Jedi.

I never said you did. I was simply building on my argument why Malgus unquestionable superiority to Kyp is utter bullshit. Perhaps he is a better duelist, but to say he's definitely not as skilled as Malgus, like it's an sacred taboo to suggest otherwise, is something I ain't seeing.

Nobody's saying it's sacred taboo, I just don't think Kyp cuts the mark to be a precise equal with Malgus.

But he isn't.

Ven matching NJO Jaina's feats, who has fought evenly with Kyp, puts him on par with Kyp.

Okay, they were top tier-fodder, happy now?

lol What are you getting so angry for?

Kyp has wrecked a Yuuzhan Vong Warrior that was as skilled as he was with an amphistaff via superior tactical ability, and such. I would call that top tier fodder as well, tbh.

I don't understand this sentence; could you reword it for me?

Kyp being on Kyle's tier would mean he is around the level of Ventress as a duelist, because that is where I rank Katarn. If that was true, he is certainly above the likes of Ven.

Not sure how much a tier is to you, but to me, Qui-Gon is only a "tier" away from Maul. Now, Kyp being up to a tier away from Kyle, which, by your substitution, suggests he's up to a tier away from Ventress, isn't "certainly above the likes of Ven". Ven's probably only a little bit more than half a tier away from Ventress and Kyle-esque characters in my opinion.

Alrighty then - we can agree to disagree.

Sure.

@shootingnova:

Jaina's feats are better in the sense that she performed them under negative circumstances, but I'd say the warriors Ven fought were at least as good as the Vong.

The Vong? Sure. But they weren't equal to the Voxyn, or the YZV Warmaster, not even close.

but on top of that, Zallow actually beat them nigh-effortlessly, so it balances out.

It's a good thing Kyp Durron has already chopped down a phalanx of Vong Warriors nigh-effortlessly, so Jaina doesn't have to. Plus, it's not like Jaina has easily dispatched Yuuzhan Vong Warriors easily herself. Hence,

The feats are roughly equal - the opponents were of similar quality, Jaina performed her feats under hindering circumstances, and Zallow performed his feats with greater ease.

Yea, no.

Voxyn, and Yuuzhan Vong Warmasters are superior to Sith Warriors, bruh. So no, Jaina battled against a superior opponent, while heavily hindered. While she wasn't hindered against the Voxyn, I would rank them above the Sith Warriors easily.

Considering Jaina's Skywalker potential and the fact that she continuously trained and fought for a decade since NJO to reach her prime, I think it's fair to submit that she's logically going to improve more than just "a bit" by the end of Fate of the Jedi.

The post feats that imply her abilities grew to a significant degree, rather than the Skywalker blood coursing through her veins. I can easily make the claim Kyp skill grew even more because of his massive potential in the Force as well.

Nobody's saying it's sacred taboo, I just don't think Kyp cuts the mark to be a precise equal with Malgus.

If you say so.

Ven matching NJO Jaina's feats, who has fought evenly with Kyp, puts him on par with Kyp.

Whatever floats your boat. I disagree, personally.

lol What are you getting so angry for?

I'm was being sardonic, I'm 100% calm right now, tbh. :p

Not sure how much a tier is to you, but to me, Qui-Gon is only a "tier" away from Maul.

I agree?

I don't understand this sentence; could you reword it for me?

Kyp dueled a Yuzhan Vong Warriors that was stated to be his equal with a amphistaff, and still won with moderate difficulty. Presumingly through superior tactical ability.

Now, Kyp being up to a tier away from Kyle which, by your substitution, suggests he's up to a tier away from Ventress, isn't "certainly above the likes of Ven". Ven's probably only a little bit more than half a tier away from Ventress and Kyle-esque characters in my opinion.

Except I never said that. Luke quote makes it clear someone who is a good fight for Kyp, would also be a good fight for Katarn. That makes them peers to be honest, which means they're equal, or near equal, not a tier behind.

Zallow is solidly below the likes of Kyle Katarn, tbh, and wouldn't be a peer to him at all in my opinion. You could argue the validly of the quote though, since Luke isn't omniscient.

Sure, but when has Jaina or Kyp beaten Voxyn or Tsavong Lah with even comparable ease to Ven against the Sith warriors? That's why it balances out.

It's a good thing Kyp Durron has already chopped down a phalanx of Vong Warriors nigh-effortlessly, so Jaina doesn't have to. Plus, it's not like Jaina has easily dispatched Yuuzhan Vong Warriors easily herself. Hence,

While they were distracted/disoriented by the Hutt and with support from Ganner? Sure, but that's not on par with Ven blitzing several of the most elite Sith Warriors in the Sith Empire.

Yea, no.

Voxyn, and Yuuzhan Vong Warmasters are superior to Sith Warriors, bruh. So no, Jaina battled against a superior opponent, while heavily hindered. While she wasn't hindered against the Voxyn, I would rank them above the Sith Warriors easily.

Sure, they're above the Sith Warriors, but not by too much, and Ven defeated the Warriors with much greater ease.

The post feats that imply her abilities grew to a significant degree, rather than the Skywalker blood coursing through her veins. I can easily make the claim Kyp skill grew even more because of his massive potential in the Force as well.

Kyp was supposed to grow, until Troy Denning decided to stuff him into the background because he was either too lazy or too crap to write the character.

Regardless, I think I can say with confidence that Malgus grew as well, especially following the events of Deceived.

Kyp dueled a Yuzhan Vong Warriors that was stated to be his equal with a amphistaff, and still won with moderate difficulty. Presumingly through superior tactical ability.

How good do you think Kyp is with an amphistaff?

Except I never said that. Luke quote makes it clear someone who is a good fight for Kyp, would also be a good fight for Katarn. That makes them peers to be honest, which means they're equal, or near equal, not a tier behind.

That only indicates they'd be in the same tier, ie. up to a tier apart. Not necessarily a whole tier apart, but there's still room for difference. They could be peers - quite possibly even equals (though I'd prefer not to push that), but they could also be anywhere up to a tier apart.

Zallow is solidly below the likes of Kyle Katarn, tbh, and wouldn't be a peer to him at all in my opinion. You could argue the validly of the quote though, since Luke isn't omniscient.

Zallow's probably a half a tier or a bit more behind Kyle, which still fits the criteria of the quote from Luke.

@shootingnova:

I feel we're running in circles at this point, and I'm really not for it. I'm only going to be replying to a few points, and skimming over the rest. This will be my final response more than likely, since I've already said I believe Kyp > Ven, and I'm not changing my opinion based on anything you've brought up in this thread. I'm pretty sure the same can be said vise-versa, tbh.

Sure, but when has Jaina or Kyp beaten Voxyn or Tsavong Lah with even comparable ease to Ven against the Sith warriors?

How do you expect them to defeat Voxyn and a freaking Yuuzhan Vong Warmaster (the best of an entire race of possibly trillions of blood thirsty warriors that are known to kill Jedi and bring about utter destruction) with the same ease as nameless Sith Warriors? Your argument is both nonessential, and a false equivalent. They faced far superior opponents, so the results is drastically different.

That's why it balances out.

LAL.

While they were distracted/disoriented by the Hutt and with support from Ganner? Sure, but that's not on par with Ven blitzing several of the most elite Sith Warriors in the Sith Empire.

Only some were disoriented, bruh. The rest were battle ready, tbh judging from the fact they were ready to deliver blows. But fair enough on the Ganner bit.

Edit: Flicked through the book again, and it also seems they fought their way through more Yuuzhan Vong Warriors to reach their desired destination - surely an entire phalanx would have to be a lot more than what was shown by definition:

As it happened, the two Jedi didn’t have long to wait. Rounding a corner in the passageway, they found themselves faced with a phalanx of Yuuzhan Vong warriors, into whose midst Randa charged, knocking half a dozen aside before any of those left standing could land blows against the Hutt’s mostly impervious hide. Kyp and Ganner followed up the brash offensive, felling their opponents with precise strikes to susceptible spots in the warriors’ armor.

....

The three of them fought their way toward an enormous maw in the bulkhead, from beyond which emanated a stench even more pungent than that given off by Randa.

---Excerpt from Agents of Chaos II: Jedi Eclipse

Sure, they're above the Sith Warriors, but not by too much

A named Yuuzhan Vong Warmaster is significantly above nameless Sith Warriors, LAL. Some normal Yuuzhan Vong Warriors are above Sith Warriors (like the ones who gave Jacen Solo fits in Vector Prime to the point he could only defeat 2 of them with luck, and defeating 3 would be nigh-impossible), let alone a freaking Warmaster who commands them unarguably. I mean how much can you reach and lowball with this?

and Ven defeated the Warriors with much greater ease.

And they were far weaker opponents than a freaking Yuuzhan Vong Warmaster.

How good do you think Kyp is with an amphistaff?

I meant Lightsaber, tbh. Kyp wrecked a Yuuzhan Vong Warrior who was just as good with his amphistaff as he was with his Lightsaber - I'm pretty sure I posted that quote in our tourney debate....

Two of Kyp's Dozen died-one beheaded by a coufee, the other pierced by a thrown amphistaff. When Kyp and Ganner had thinned the throng, they separated to engage the last of the warriors one on one, Kyp entering into a savage battle with an opponent a head taller than him and as deft with his staff as Kyp was with his lightsaber; Ganner using a Force-summoned telekinetic burst to hurl his adversary into a trio of Yuuzhan Vong who had ganged up on Deak.

Two of the three dropped to the deck, giving Deak the time he needed to raise his blaster rifle and kill the third, along with the one Ganner had thrown. Kyp perceived the events peripherally. With his feet planted right foot forward, he held the lightsaber at waist level, its blade elevated acutely, gyrating his wrists to answer and divert the sweeping slashes and overhead blows of the Yuuzhan Vong's stiffened amphistaff. That Kyp remained rooted in place provoked the warrior to greater ferocity. Lunging, he thrust the vital weapon at Kyp's midsection, at once ordering it to lengthen and strike with its fangs. The amphistaff's abrupt transformation from sword to serpent caught Kyp by surprise, but only for a moment. Twisting the lightsaber around the pliable staff, he suddenly snapped the energy blade upward, flinging the staff from the warrior's grip and severing the Yuuzhan Vong's hand, just at the gap where his forearm guards met his gauntlets. The dismembered fist fell to the deck, dark blood oozing from the warrior's truncated limb. The Yuuzhan Vong looked at Kyp in startled disbelief, then lowered his head and rushed forward, intent on ramming Kyp off his feet.

A side step sabotaged the effort. As the weakened warrior stumbled past him, Kyp brought the lightsaber to shoulder height, then drove it into his foe's armpit, killing him instantly.

--Excerpt from Agents of Chaos - Jedi Eclipse

@dccomicsrule2011:

How do you expect them to defeat Voxyn and a freaking Yuuzhan Vong Warmaster (the best of an entire race of possibly trillions of blood thirsty warriors that are known to kill Jedi and bring about utter destruction) with the same ease as nameless Sith Warriors?

I don't expect them to beat the Voxyn or Tsavong that quickly/easily - that's the point. If Jaina was so much better, ie Sidious-level, then I'd expect her to beat them easily. But if she's around somebody like Ven, then obviously it'd be a challenge.

We have a party who faced superior opponents and won with difficulty in comparison to somebody who fought less impressive opponents but slaughtered them. It's up to you to decide which feat is better or if they're equal.

Your argument is both nonessential, and a false equivalent. They faced far superior opponents, so the results is drastically different.

Considering that we're discussing qualitative feats here, the equivalence (or disparity) is obviously going to be entirely subjective. That's how skill feats work - their impressiveness is often up to the viewer to decide, unless we have feats against a common enemy, which isn't the case here.

So no, it's not "false" equivalency, merely subjective equivalency.

Only some were disoriented, bruh. The rest were battle ready, tbh judging from the fact they were ready to deliver blows. But fair enough on the Ganner bit.

Edit: Flicked through the book again, and it also seems they fought their way through more Yuuzhan Vong Warriors to reach their desired destination - surely an entire phalanx would have to be a lot more than what was shown by definition:

It states they were prepared to attack Randa, which suggests he was focus of their attention rather than Kyp or Ganner. Not saying that just gave up their backs to the Jedi, but I'm not convinced the fight didn't have circumstances. By contrast, Ven was sent flying by Malgus and immediately recovered to blitz a pair of attacking Sith Warriors. That's a better showing. There's another Kyp showing where Kyp cuts down a Vong warrior decisively whilst leaking blood from several wounds - and that was a more traditional, non-circumstantial struggle, so it'd probably be better to bring up.

A phalanx, by definition, is only a tight formation - it has no specifications regarding the quantity of soldiers involved.

Fair enough on fighting more Vong, but we have absolutely no details on the fight other than the fact that Kyp was with Ganner and Randa, and presumably it was more than one Vong warrior. Kind of an ambiguous showing.

A named Yuuzhan Vong Warmaster is significantly above nameless Sith Warriors, LAL. Some normal Yuuzhan Vong Warriors are above Sith Warriors (like the ones who gave Jacen Solo fits in Vector Prime to the point he could only defeat 2 of them with luck, and defeating 3 would be nigh-impossible), let alone a freaking Warmaster who commands them unarguably. I mean how much can you reach and lowball with this?

I was referring to voxyn. Obviously Tsavong's far better - but Ven faced more opponents and defeated them more swiftly, so again, it's a comparable feat. In fact, Jaina didn't really beat him by virtue of skill. She kept swinging her saber to distract him whilst she telekinetically levitated a lightsaber and hurled it into his back.

And they were far weaker opponents than a freaking Yuuzhan Vong Warmaster.

Hence why they were more easily defeated by an opponent of roughly similar skill as NJO Jaina/Kyp.

I meant Lightsaber, tbh. Kyp wrecked a Yuuzhan Vong Warrior who was just as good with his amphistaff as he was with his Lightsaber - I'm pretty sure I posted that quote in our tourney debate....

Well your comment was confusing.

Anyways, it's a nice tactical showing, but not exactly applicable here since he was capitalizing specifically on the unique nature of the Vong's weapon.

Blowing away an unspecified amount of rubble is as good as dragging a 14m ship? That's news to me.

@playa1: It is considering his injuries and the fact that he would've grown in power in the decades to come. That, and he was fighting against gravity rather than having the support of it as in Maul's case.

He's also blasted Aryn Leneer (who's more powerful than Obi-Wan) across a hangar.

@playa1: Malgus has shattered a column with Force Scream, has casually overpowered Aryn Leneer. And has, as Nova stated, blasted away tons of rubble while injured and decades pre-prime.

@shootingnova:

CV ate yesterdays post...

It is considering his injuries and the fact that he would've grown in power in the decades to come.

His injuries hardly make up for the feat being lesser than Maul's. An increased connection to the Force over time has absolutely nothing to do with increased skill in telekinesis either.

That, and he was fighting against gravity rather than having the support of it as in Maul's case.

Maul dragged the ship to the edge of the cliff. Gravity only helped once the ship fell down.

He's also blasted Aryn Leneer (who's more powerful than Obi-Wan) across a hangar.

Prove that Aryn is more powerful than Obi-Wan. And did you completely miss how inconsequential his telekinetic blast on Aryn was?

Malgus bounced up from the somersault and loosed a telekinetic blast that lifted Aryn from her feet and blew her across the hangar. She slammed into one of the shuttle’s bulkheads, but used the Force to cushion the blow so that it did no harm. Bouncing off the cool metal, she charged Malgus. As she ran, she cast first her own lightsaber at Malgus, then Master Zallow’s, using the Force to guide both.

--Deceived

@playa1: It does, because he just becomes inherently more powerful. Telekinesis is primarily an expression of raw power, as far as I know, which means that his increased power would allow him to

Fair enough on the dragging.

Aryn's feats with the Force are just better. She's pushed six tram cars with only a gesture, and shielded herself and Zeerid as they descended from 50km in the sky, whilst simultaneously slowing both of their descents. I won't deny Obi-Wan has mastered more powers and is just better in other powers, but Aryn's feats in those areas exceed his and Kenobi's superiority in other powers isn't really due to greater power. Aryn's showings with the Force seem to reflect greater Force power.

Aryn cushioning the blast with her own power is just a good feat for her. It has nothing to do with the fact that Malgus sent her flying across an entire hangar.

@shootingnova:

It does, because he just becomes inherently more powerful. Telekinesis is primarily an expression of raw power, as far as I know, which means that his increased power would allow him to

So far, this has no basis for it being true. Telekinesis is an individual skill like every other Force power.

Aryn's feats with the Force are just better. She's pushed six tram cars with only a gesture, and shielded herself and Zeerid as they descended from 50km in the sky, whilst simultaneously slowing both of their descents.

And Obi-Wan deflected fire from Durge's flamethrower and manipulated electronics inside Grievous' hands to have him drop his lightsabers. So what? Aryn enjoys no advantage when compared to Obi-Wan.

Kenobi's superiority in other powers isn't really due to greater power.

This makes no sense. I can just as easily claim the same about Aryn's superiority in TK.

Aryn's showings with the Force seem to reflect greater Force power.

Again, you have no basis for this. Her feats indicate greater skill with TK. Kenobi's feats indicate greater skill with Deflection. And Electronic Manipulation. And Immovability. And every other power he has displayed more skill in than her. Feat-to-feat, Kenobi boasts an advantage over Aryn with regards to the Force.

Aryn cushioning the blast with her own power is just a good feat for her. It has nothing to do with the fact that Malgus sent her flying across an entire hangar.

Yes, it does. It shows how little his TK mattered. It hardly had any impact against Zallow either. As emperor against the strike team, he TK'd them right off the bat to apparently no consequence. That he would ragdoll Kenobi to the point where Kenobi does not even have a shot of victory is nonsense.

CW - 8

TK - 8

SWTOR - 10

NJO - 9

@playa1:

And Obi-Wan deflected fire from Durge's flamethrower and manipulated electronics inside Grievous' hands to have him drop his lightsabers. So what? Aryn enjoys no advantage when compared to Obi-Wan.

I don't really see where deflecting a flamethrower is more impressive than Aryn's deflection feats.

Deflects a Force blast that destroyed multiple statues and flung a Sith ten paces:

She advanced on him, heedless of the woman, imagining the feel of her hands on his throat. He answered her approach with a blast of power, but she made a V with her hands, formed a wedge with her will, and deflected the blast to either side of her. More statues toppled, shattered. The female Sith, caught in the deflected blast, was thrown backward ten paces.

--Deceived

Or when she deflects debris/shrapnel without flinching:

Still, he landed in a cocoon of power, hitting the ground in an explosion of might that shattered the stones around them and turned them into a hail of shrapnel. Unflinching, Aryn deflected them with the Force as she parried another slash from Malgus.

--Deceived

Her feats indicate greater skill with TK

Greater skill in the fact that she was able to stop herself, Zeerid, and their droid T7 from spinning. slow them down, and land them safely on a rooftop:

End over end they spun, T7 whistling with alarm, until Aryn seized them in her power, ended the spinning, and slowed their descent. The metal and duracrete of the spaceport's roof rushed up to meet them. They had only a second, two. Aryn grunted, slowed them still further, further, until they touched down gently on the roof.

--Deceived

Or greater skill in the fact that she used a double lightsaber throw combo, called them both back to her hand, and flung them again:

As she ran, she cast first her own lightsaber at Malgus, then Master Zallow's, using the Force to guide both.

The attack caught Malgus unprepared, and Aryn's blade bit into his armor. Sparks flew and Malgus winced, snarled with pain. He ducked under Master Zallow's blade, and Aryn recalled both to her hands as she ran. The moment she had them, she cast them both at Malgus again.

--Deceived

She displays greater strength in the fact that she could throw six trams cars with a mere gesture with deflecting blaster bolts from shooters:

Aryn gestured at a cargo tram near the three men shooting at them from behind. The six cars of the tram rushed toward the men, propelled by Aryn's power.

--Deceived

I don't get how this feat is done with just skill and not power:

She made her grip a vise around Zeerid and used the Force first to slow, then to stop the spin.

. . .

She let herself feel the descent and used the feeling to fall into the Force. Nestled in its power, she marshaled her strength.

...

She reached out with the Force, channeled power into a wide column beneath them. She conceptualized the power as somewhat similar to what she would use when augmenting a leap, except that instead of a sudden rush of power to drive her upward, she instead used the power in a gentler, passive fashion.

...

The balloon of her power slowed them further. She could see benches in the plaza, a fountain. She could distinguish individual windows in the skyrises around them. They were five hundred meters up and still falling fast.

The pressure in her brain intensified. Her vision blurred. The ache in her head became a knife stab of pain. She screamed but held on, held on.

Four hundred meters. Three hundred.

They slowed still more and Aryn feared she could not bear it anymore.

Two hundred.

A second stretched into an eternity of pain and pressure. She thought she must burst.

"Hang on, Aryn!" Zeerid said, his voice muffled by the mask. He was rigid in her arms.

Fifty meters.

They were still going too fast.

Twenty, ten.

She dug deep, pulled out whatever power she could, and expended it in a final shout, an expulsion of power that entirely arrested their descent for a moment. They hung in the air for a fraction of a second, suspended only by the invisible power of the Force and Aryn's ability to use it.

And then they were falling free.

She released Zeerid and they both hit the duracrete feetfirst, the shock of impact sending jolts of pain up Aryn's ankles and calves. She rode the momentum of the fall into a roll that knocked the wind from her and tore a divot of skin from her scalp.

But she was alive.

--Deceived

They jump out of a ship from higher than 500 meters and she is able to stop their spinning and then slow them down enough so that they would be unharmed upon landing.

Kenobi's feats indicate greater skill with Deflection. And Electronic Manipulation. And Immovability. And every other power he has displayed more skill in than her. Feat-to-feat, Kenobi boasts an advantage over Aryn with regards to the Force

Not really on the Deflection part.

Aryn doesn't know Electronic Manipulation. Of course he's going to be better with a power when she herself doesn't even know it.

As for Immovability, Aryn was able to catch Malgus's side kick and hurl him twenty meters:

Malgus parried crosswise with his blade and stepped into a Force-augmented side kick aimed at her ribs. She caught the kick with her free hand, closed her arm over his leg, spun, and flung Malgus twenty meters from her.

--Deceived

That same side kick was able to fold another Jedi in half when it made contact:

Malgus got his blade up in time, parried, and slammed a kick into the Jedi’s mid-section. The blow folded the Jedi in half, sent him reeling backward five paces.

--Deceived

And from the look of the text, the kick Aryn caught was actively enhanced, whereas the one that folded the Jedi in half was passively enhanced by the Force. I think it's pretty obvious which one was stronger.

She was also able to sense the incoming attack on the Jedi Temple, as well as when the attack started, all while she was on Alderaan:

In truth, she felt as if she were a boiling pot, the steam of her emotional state seeking escape around the lid of her control. The air felt charged, agitated. She would have attributed the feelings to the stress of the peace negotiations, but it seemed to her something more. She felt a doom creeping up on her, a darkness. Was the Force trying to tell her something?

...

"As if. . . as if something is about to happen. I can explain it no better than that."

"This originates from the Force, from your empathy?"

"I don't know. I just. . . feel like something is about to happen."

--Deceived

Aryn felt dizzy. A rush of emotion flooded her. She could not name it, categorize it. It was just a wash of inchoate, raw feeling. She was swimming in it, sinking.

"Something is happening, Syo," she said, her voice tight. "I don't know what it is, but it is not good."

--Deceived

The only advantage I see Obi-Wan boasting in regards to the Force is the amount of powers he knows, really. That, and the more showings he has under his belt as opposed to a character with just one novel.

I have no idea why people think Malgus woud beat Kyp for any kind of majority. He's more tham comparable as a duelist, and far more powerful, and possibly, more versatile in the Force than Malgus is.

@thevivas:

I don't really see where deflecting a flamethrower is more impressive than Aryn's deflection feats.

I wasn't recalling that she even used Deflection. My bad. With that in mind, Obi-Wan also used Deflection to deflect telekinetic blasts from Anakin. His skill with Deflection is still more impressive overall.

Greater skill in the fact that she was able to stop herself, Zeerid, and their droid T7 from spinning. slow them down, and land them safely on a rooftop:

I know. I just said her feats indicate greater skill. I have no idea what your point is.

Or greater skill in the fact that she used a double lightsaber throw combo, called them both back to her hand, and flung them again:

Kenobi has displayed the ability to telekinetically throw his lightsaber as well. It's not an advantage in her favor.

I don't get how this feat is done with just skill and not power:

What's your point? The same goes for Obi-Wan. All of his Force feats are a result of his mastery and skill of that specific Force technique.

Aryn doesn't know Electronic Manipulation. Of course he's going to be better with a power when she herself doesn't even know it.

Indeed.

As for Immovability, Aryn was able to catch Malgus's side kick and hurl him twenty meters:

This has absolutely nothing to do with immovability. Kenobi has displayed skill to root himself in the Force to become immovable, presumably via telekinesis. It serves as a counter for Aryn slowing her own descend.

And from the look of the text, the kick Aryn caught was actively enhanced, whereas the one that folded the Jedi in half was passively enhanced by the Force. I think it's pretty obvious which one was stronger.

What's your point?

She was also able to sense the incoming attack on the Jedi Temple, as well as when the attack started, all while she was on Alderaan:

And Obi-Wan fought armies of creatures blindfolded, relying only on his Force perceptions to guide him. There is no advantage regarding Force senses either.

The only advantage I see Obi-Wan boasting in regards to the Force is the amount of powers he knows, really.

Which is the entire point. Aryn enjoys greater skill with TK. Obi-Wan enjoys greater skill with Deflection, Electronic Manipulation and Beast Control. His broader mastery lends credibility to the notion of him being stronger in the Force than her.

This is a really awesome and creative thread Good job so here are my answers.

Cw: Just beats Qunilon and kills shaak Stalemates Obi Wan

Toj/Kotor: Gets to Ulic loses (Ulic made a fool out of Warb Null)

Swtor: Most likey gets to Revan and dies

NJO: gets to Kyp Dies

On that note, has Kyp's technical lightsaber skill (i.e. form mastery) ever been elaborated on?

le boomp

CW- Maul

KOTOR- Ulic

SWTOR- Revan

NJO- Jaina.

Lot of people have the same answers as I do so not very original by me, but I think they each make perfect sense.

@wollfmyth209: I'll bite.

Ulic's more skilled and in the same range of Force power. No reason Malgus shouldn't stop there.

And I'll bark. JK. A bit of humor always helps :)

Based on what in particular? Him fighting evenly with a pre-prime Exar Kun? Malgus's ability to hold an edge over someone who can fodderize the "Empire's best" should be on par with that.

He's in the same range defensively, but Malgus is offensively superior.

I see some reason. Pretty sure you'll prove me wrong, though.

@wollfmyth209:

And I'll bark. JK. A bit of humor always helps :)

Ruff ruff.

Based on what in particular?

Overall; blitzing Warb Null as a weakened novice; stalemating a fellow top tier swordsman in Exar Kun in a fight that could have lasted hours (Dark Side Sourcebook). and would have ended in both of their deaths (Power of the Jedi sourcebook); and stalemating Sylvar without any connection to the Force, out of his physical prime and while only fighting defensively.

Ulic just comes off as faster, more precise and more refined.

Malgus's ability to hold an edge over someone who can fodderize the "Empire's best" should be on par with that.

I'd have to disagree on the premise that the feat is about as good as Ulic slaughtering Warb Null, except Ulic was sapped of strength and a novice at the time of his feat.

He's in the same range defensively, but Malgus is offensively superior.

Malgus has more showings in the offensive department, but I wouldn't write Ulic off too easily.

For starters, Ulic's Force power is "far beyond" any member of the Krath; the Keto's, being specific.

• Satal has been shown mind controlling hundreds of pilots into suicide bombing a capital ship
• Aleema has projected illusions so large they looked to swallow a fleet of capital ships (they fooled every pilot and Jedi aboard aside from Nomi Sunrider)
• and has also used a Force blast to reduce a man to a charred skeleton (this feat being done after just a few months of the years she would spend developing her talent in Sith magic).

The disparity between her and Ulic is demonstrated when Aleema tries to blast Exar Kun, at which point her assault gets absorbed and she's dismissed easily, whereas Ulic circa the same time period is "the only Sith practitioner who can challenge Kun" (Databank) and proceeds to stalemate him in a duel.

So, aside from being far more powerful than those two (meaning Ulic's own Force blasts are vastly more powerful than Aleema's after a few months of training), we know that over the two year time skip Ulic crafted his own Sith Talisman into a gauntlet akin to Exar's; this can only be because he wanted to enhance his ability to channel the Force through it, ergo, Ulic after the timeskip should logically be a fair bit more powerful than his self prior to it.

With that noted, and already accounting for what I said about the Keto's:

• Ulic was already able to incapacitate Jedi (Nomi) with Force lightning from just waving around his Talisman
• And even threatened to kill his group of old Jedi friends (and they seemed to agree with the deadliness of Ulic's lightning, calling it "deadly").

Post-timeskip Ulic? More than likely rocking energy projection more than capable of matching Malgus' own, which just like pre-timeskip Ulic, is capable of killing groups of Jedi and ravaging non-Force sensitive bodies.

As for telekinesis, while it's likely not Ulic's strongest suit given his dedication to energy channelling and projection, it's worth noting that his feats of...

• Blasting Tott and Cay (which is impressive given that Tott Doneeta would later on hold back a town-sized heat storm with Barrier)
• And smashing apart his metal/stone restraints (after being tortured for hours)

...were both done without his talisman and prior to the two year timeskip. If nothing else he's displayed as a powerful telekinetic, and that's without truly mastering his power over the years to come alongside picking up an amulet dedicated channelling the Force more efficiently.

A Force contest between Malgus and Ulic could even potentially end up in Ulic's favour depending on how you want to interpret his relationship to Exar Kun and so on, but I'll settle for them being comparable since Ulic hasn't been expounded on in massive detail. I also apologize for the wall of text there, tried to keep it condensed with bullet points but Ulic requires more explaining in some fields.

I see some reason. Pretty sure you'll prove me wrong, though.

I can be and am at times wrong as well, as rare as those occurrences may be. ;)

Which is also due to his speed, as much as his skill. And Null was never that impressive a swordsman to begin with. Malgus has at least bested Satele Shan while decades before his prime. And Shan in her Hope incarnation at least has the feat of briefly stalemating Darth Baras and some accolades here and there, whereas Null is pretty much featless by all accounts.

stalemating a fellow top tier swordsman in Exar Kun in a fight that could have lasted hours (Dark Side Sourcebook). and would have ended in both of their deaths (Power of the Jedi sourcebook);

A pre-prime Exar Kun, who at the time didn't have any good feats other than stomping Crado and Sylvar(the former is featless, the latter was pre-prime).

and stalemating Sylvar without any connection to the Force, out of his physical prime and while only fighting defensively.

It usually is a stalemate when one fighter fights defensively and successfully holds off the other fighter. And Ulic fled most of the fight. And Malgus would perform similarly, mostly due to his superior levels of strength and durability in regards to Ulic at the time.

Ulic just comes off as faster, more precise and more refined.

Faster, yes. Though nothing you've presented so far shows precision or refinement.

I'd have to disagree on the premise that the feat is about as good as Ulic slaughtering Warb Null, except Ulic was sapped of strength and a novice at the time of his feat.

Has Null fodderized some of the best of the Empire and been regarded as a superior to the likes of Battlemaster Kao Cen Darach? Malgus beating Zallow is better than Ulic beating Null. Ulic being pre-prime and being hindered means that he'd be on par or slightly superior to Malgus in his prime.

Malgus has more showings in the offensive department, but I wouldn't write Ulic off too easily.

For starters, Ulic's Force power is "far beyond" any member of the Krath; the Keto's, being specific.

• Satal has been shown mind controlling hundreds of pilots into suicide bombing a capital ship

• Aleema has projected illusions so large they looked to swallow a fleet of capital ships (they fooled every pilot and Jedi aboard aside from Nomi Sunrider)

• and has also used a Force blast to reduce a man to a charred skeleton (this feat being done after just a few months of the years she would spend developing her talent in Sith magic).

Yes, but Ulic, for the most part, uses the Force defensively. He's never demonstrated any use of offensive powers in a duel.

The disparity between her and Ulic is demonstrated when Aleema tries to blast Exar Kun, at which point her assault gets absorbed and she's dismissed easily, whereas Ulic circa the same time period is "the only Sith practitioner who can challenge Kun" (Databank) and proceeds to stalemate him in a duel.

So Kun took down Aleema with the Force, but engaged Ulic in a duel. How is that suppose to prove Ulic is offensively power?

So, aside from being far more powerful than those two (meaning Ulic's own Force blasts are vastly more powerful than Aleema's after a few months of training), we know that over the two year time skip Ulic crafted his own Sith Talisman into a gauntlet akin to Exar's; this can only be because he wanted to enhance his ability to channel the Force through it, ergo, Ulic after the timeskip should logically be a fair bit more powerful than his self prior to it.

Alright. So he's far more powerful than Aleema or Satal. So is Malgus.

With that noted, and already accounting for what I said about the Keto's:

• Ulic was already able to incapacitate Jedi (Nomi) with Force lightning from just waving around his Talisman

• And even threatened to kill his group of old Jedi friends (and they seemed to agree with the deadliness of Ulic's lightning, calling it "deadly").

Nomi never struck me as that powerful a Jedi defensively, tbh. The majority of her feats are TP-wise or unorthodox and arcane. In terms of TK or defensive abilities she never demonstrated much. And Jedi calling Ulic's Lightning deadly is like Teneb and Marr calling the latter's Lightning deadly when he produced it, but no results were shown. For all we know, it could've just incapacitated them. It's speculation that he could actually kill them with it.

Post-timeskip Ulic? More than likely rocking energy projection more than capable of matching Malgus' own, which just like pre-timeskip Ulic, is capable of killing groups of Jedi and ravaging non-Force sensitive bodies.

I doubt that. Ulic has never actually used it to kill Jedi, and the best you have for him being capable of doing so is him being more powerful than Aleema, who can kill non-Force Sensitives but not Jedi, and Ulic's old Jedi allies calling his Lightning "deadly" and him incapacitated an unready Nomi, who by herself isn't that powerful defensively. Meanwhile, pre-prime Malgus has killed three Jedi with Lightning, and has forced a group that can consist of Darth Nox or Barsen'Thor(two highly powerful Force users) to kneel down without even using it to it's highest degree.

As for telekinesis, while it's likely not Ulic's strongest suit given his dedication to energy channelling and projection, it's worth noting that his feats of...

Blasting Tott and Cay (which is impressive given that Tott Doneeta would later on hold back a town-sized heat storm with Barrier)

He blasted them while they had their defenses down and while Tott didn't have his Barrier active. Malgus would do the same.

And smashing apart his metal/stone restraints (after being tortured for hours)

That's decent. But Malgus's feat of pushing back tons of rubble and rock while pre-prime and fatally injured is superior.

...were both done without his talisman and prior to the two year timeskip. If nothing else he's displayed as a powerful telekinetic, and that's without truly mastering his power over the years to come alongside picking up an amulet dedicated channelling the Force more efficiently.

Alright. His talisman only boosts his energy based attacks like Lightning or blasts, IIRC. So they are irrelevant for telekinesis and not worth bringing up.

A Force contest between Malgus and Ulic could even potentially end up in Ulic's favour depending on how you want to interpret his relationship to Exar Kun and so on, but I'll settle for them being comparable since Ulic hasn't been expounded on in massive detail.

Alright, I can agree that Ulic is comparable as a Force user.

I also apologize for the wall of text there, tried to keep it condensed with bullet points but Ulic requires more explaining in some fields.

No need to apologize. Ulic is one of those characters that you really need to gauge out to show off his power and requires a lot of explanations.

I can be and am at times wrong as well, as rare as those occurrences may be. ;)

This isn't going to be one of those occurrence.

Say, I was wondering:

Since posting walls of text on here might not be the best idea, wanna make this into a CaV? I'm itching for one of those, and this seems like a perfect theme. And if you win, which you probably will, I'll concede that Malgus stops at Ulic.

Huh? Wadda ya say?

Not sure. I don't think it's ever been touched upon, to be honest. At least from the sources I've seen, which is ALOT considering I try to hound down as many of Kyp Durron's skill feats as possible, since, some think he's an inept fool when it comes to fencing.