@Esquire said:
@Floopay Throw it out out there. I'd love to read it!
Thank you, I prefer voting only starts when both parties are ready for a debate to end. You are a gentlemen and a scholar. You may rebuttal after this.
@jobiwankenobi: @CadenceV2 @Mr_Ingenuity
Well initially I was under the impression I couldn't stock my guys with gear using prep, however, I see that is not the case, considering what is being brought against me.
Yuffie will stock my FF7 crew with the following materia
Cloud Strife: Regen, Barrier, Time (Stop/Slow I won't use to be fair), Fire, Lightning
Yuffie: Regen, Barrier, Ice, Lightning, Fire, Time
Vincent Valentine: Fire, Lightning, Ice, Regen, Haste
I will stock Jubilee with the following:
Jubilee: Bullet Proof Vest, Yuffie's Dust Jacket, Shinra Weaponry (handguns, and 2 frag grenades, 2 smoke cylindar)
Spider Woman: 3 Frag Grenades, 1 Smoke Cylindar
Entire Team: Comm devices
My way to defeat your stealth tactic:
If you had watched the videos I posted of my FF7 characters, you would know that Cloud and Vincent have dodged bigger explosions, that explode instantly on impact mind you, after something has been fired at them from much closer than Hawkeye's arrow.
Vincent escapes a point blank explosion completely unharmed, then proceeds to destroy a gunship with his gun.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyzoBdPR5nM
As far as being a bullet timer goes, that's all fine, and I can see them dodging some of his gunfire. However, in the end they are fighting 5 people at once, and if they take their eyes off Vincent for a second, then they are getting riddled with
Materia:
Time Materia will allow my team to do the following: Jump to 3:15
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/3018092/advent_children_complete_tifa_vs_loz/
Regen will give my team some form of regeneration for a period of time. It's in both Crisis Core and Final Fantasy 7, and can be found in Shinra stores.
Fire provides a huge AoE attack, allowing me to hit massive areas. In the original Final Fantasy this took awhile to charge before using. However, as of Crisis Core, Advent Children, and Dirge of Cerberus, that is not the case. It can hit a huge area and do massive damage, almost a grenade like attack.
Ice materia will allow me to chill your characters to the bone, it's pretty self explanitory, has some degree of AoE.
Lighting creates a huge charge of lighting in a straight line. Moves at light speed obviously, and should do more than a little damage to your characters.
Barrier would give me some extra degree of protection against all physical attacks.
Dealing with Stealth:
Your ENTIRE team is going to stealth mine? I just don't see 5 people getting past my 5 characters scouting. Not to mention my team has reflexes and senses enhanced to a degree where they can dodge bullets after they've been fired with their backs turned to whoever fired. Cloud Strife was able to do this in Advent Children against Yazoo, in case you are curious as to where the feat came from.
Cloud Strife: Cloud Strife can cut through steel like butter, he fought 3 characters who are at least on Sabertooth's level of speed, strength, and durability (from the 616 Universe) and fought them to a stalemate, and that was without any of his materia and in his weakened state. He was able to react and fight monsters summoned directly on top of him (the dog-beast looking things). He is a trained Shinra infantryman, and was able to fight and defeat Sephiroth.
Yuffie Kisaragi: Master ninja, master of espionage. She may not have as many resources as Black Panther, but she is no slouch when it comes to stealth. She is a master at information gathering (able to retrieve classified Shinra information when she was 13 years old). She's highly intelligent, a skilled fighter, a master scout, and meta human all around.
Vincent Valentine: The strongest soldier in the Final Fantasy universe. His cloak provides a large degree of protection, and he can leap around, and morph through his cloak instantly and effortlessly. Dodging his bullets is going to be harder than you think. He has taken out gunships, and people who were well above bullet timer level before. Nero the Sable, Rosso the Crimson, and Weiss the Immaculate are all characters who are at least as fast as Vincent, and he tagged them all out of Chaos form (defeated some of them in Chaos form,but that's not the point).
Jubilee: I hate her to death, I really do. However, she has flight, a powerful forcefield, and she can go intangible. I see her scouting around while intangible and flying, and possibly getting the drop on your team. She is more than capable of handling herself against anyone in your team. When she spots your team, she will communicate back to mine that she has seen you).
Spider Woman: She was part of HYDRA, SHIELD, New Avengers, etc. etc. She will be flying and she will be scouting for me. When spotting your team she will comm back to mine and she will definitely use a grenade, venom blasts, and possibly even a smoke cylinder. My team is not going to be too far spread out, so coming to each others aid isn't going to be hard. Plus the fact that she's flying is going to prove pretty difficult for most of your team.
Tactic:
Again I have 3 characters who will start near each other, and that' the Final Fantasy 7 crew. Their job will be to keep an eye out for attacks coming into the area I've set up as my home base. When the battle starts, they will Regen themselves, and then use Haste and Barrier. This should only take moments, Loz was able to haste instantly and it lasts a decent time. From here my characters will have a huge speed advantage. Cloud will close in on your team fast, and constantly switch between single and double weapon style, making him almost impossible to predict. Above this he has proven in the videos I've posted that he is well above your team in speed. They may have the reflexes to match his speed, I don't dispute this, but Cloud without haste is fast enough to deflect bullets with his swords. Yuffie is almost as fast, and at least as well trained as Cloud. She is powerful in both melee and ranged competition. Add in her haste, barrier, and regen bonuses and she will be pretty ridiculous to contend with.
Vincent is faster than both Yuffie and Cloud, and equally the best trained of the group. He has AoE attacks thanks to my materia, and he will have haste, regen, and barrier. This combination of abilities will make him next to impossible to tag. And your team can only dodge so much at once, yes they can dodge bullets, and machine gun fire. But can they dodge that while attempting to defend themselves against a hasted, bloodlusted Cloud, and a hasted Yuffie, while simultaneously dodging Spider Woman's assaults, and Jubilee switching between hand to hand combat and ranged fire. Over and above this I will have Fire/Ice/Lightning being slung in every direction.
Jubilee and Spider Woman will spend most of the match flying, and using range. Spider Woman should have knowledge on Daken, so when he comes into play she will use her pheromones to counter his. Over and above this she has powerful multi-directional venom blasts that travel at light speed. These attacks combined with the rest of my team are more than enough to KO any member on your team.
Mini-Nuke. Tagging Jubilee and Spider Woman with this would be difficult because of their flight, but it is possible. Firing this right on top of Cloud, Vincent, or Yuffie would put the rest of your team in jeopardy, and pose little threat. They have all dodged attacks from near point blank at the moment of it's explosion, plus Vincent and Yuffie will be in constant motion, so it won't be too difficult for them to dodge it, as they are already getting out of the way. If fired as an opener, I see my team getting out of the way, and any damage sustained in the process won't last long with Regen active.
Bahamut SIN takes out a city block with one breath attack
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeyyJSmLW3w
Jump to: 5:10
Cloud tanks a blast from Bahamut SIN
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYmlJoCk7uU
Jump to: 2:30
Daken getting the jump on my group: Yes, he's good at stealth. But to be honest, in this scenario we have 2 teams ready to fight one another. Had Daken been getting the jump on my team and they weren't expecting to be in a battle, then yes I'd agree with you 100%. However, I have a team full of characters who are trained in the art of stealth expecting to go against another group of characters.
Stealth: It's powerful, I think it'll let your team get close to mine before combat initiates, and that's what'll make this a good battle. If my team could spot yours from a distance, this would be over almost instantly between the barrage of Fire Materia, Vincent's bullets that can tear through armored vehicles and machinery like it's paper, and Spider Woman's powerful chain blasts. But I have 2 fliers who are scouting for me, and 3 military trained operatives waiting for a strike, whether it is someone charging from out in the open, or someone trying to slit my throats from behind.
Overall evaluation of teams: I have a clear range advantage. Hawkeye matches or may even exceed Vincent in accuracy, and he has powerful trick arrows. I'm not arguing that. However, my entire team has powerful AoE attacks (Jubilee with grenades), several means of obscuring Hawkeye's accuracy once he makes it clear that there's a sniper in the midst (smoke cylinders), a huge mobility advantage (two fliers, and three characters who have run up walls, and leaped vast distances instantly and with little trouble, plus extremely fast travel and combat speeds), a range advantage (I have 5 characters with ranged weaponry against 1 ranged guy), and versatility advantage (my entire team is well trained in the art of melee and ranged combat, and isn't scared to switch between the two). Over and above this I have 4 regeneraters on my team thanks to my materia plus Jubilee (though Vincent is a natural regenerater, which is the reason behind his immortality).
Black Panther's Armor: I still have powerful lightning blasts capable of harming him through his armor, I have the ability to drop the environment in over his head. I have frag grenades capable of disorienting and stunning him, I have ice blasts capable of chilling him to the bone, and I have fire materia capable of burning the oxygen around him, and leaving him disoriented from a lack of oxygen.
Hawkeye is a huge threat here, but once he fires he's going to make his location known, and I have enough characters who can constantly be on the move to close the gap in distance between them and him for a good KO. He might be able to pick off a member, but that'll be rough. Jubilee's force field should be able to tank most things he can put out, and Spider Woman could be sniped, but she's taken blows from Luke Cage before, so she should be able to take quite a bit without getting taken out. Plus she's dodged bullet fire from swarms of people, and taken on the likes of Spiderman. He has what it takes to tag my team, but even with his accuracy it is by no means a guarenteed hit, and if he makes his location known, I have the sniper power and AoE attacks necessary to KO him and kill him from a distance.
Daken: Daken is an expert in hand to hand combat. Plus he is stealthy. However, he lacks the durability to tank any shot from Cloud, Vincent, or Yuffie. A good blow from them would cut off limbs or even decapitate him. Plus Spider Woman will be around to negate his pheromones, and she has her venom blasts that could leave him stunned or disoriented.
Sabertooth: Adamantium skeleton, combined with his skills. I see him as my biggest threat in melee combat. However, with claws he lacks the range necessary to really close in on Cloud, and lacerations have been used by Deadpool in the past (not against Ultimate) to disable Sabertooth. Plus my materia can at least temporarily KO or disorient him. Add in my regeneration on most of my team, and my barrier materia, and he'll still be able to do some damage, but you add in haste and he'll be taking a lot more and be KO'd, disabled, incapacitated, or disoriented pretty quickly.
X-23: She has proven herself a powerful foe. Took down Lady Deathstrike pretty handily (after being owned by her), and is very agile and acrobatic. However, she lacks the adamantium skeleton to tank any blow from any of my characters. A blast of fire materia, a cut from Cloud or Yuffie, a bullet from Vincent, a grenade from Jubilee/Spider Woman, a bio blast from Spider Woman, and she is going down. Against Jubilee she should be able to eventually pull a win, but even that's only going to be about 50% of the time. Jubilee has that powerful force field, the intangibility, flight, and the meta human stats from her vampirism to contend with X-23 for quite awhile.
Dealing with Bullet Timers: Again, Vincent has dealt with people who match him with speed, using only his pistol. That means he has the accuracy to contend with super speed. Over and above this, your team doesn't have the luxury of focusing on his bullets alone. They will be dodging a full arsenal of attacks, both melee and ranged, plus his shots (which again, rip through tanks and armored vehicles like they are nothing).
Versatility: I have versatility, there's no real arguing this. I have energy blasts, AoE attacks, extreme range, powerful melee, stealthers (to contend with yours), meta human stats (on all characters), huge durability advantages (with the exception of Sabertooth). Haste gives my team a huge speed bonus (over and above the one they already had), and a huge defense against reflexes. Add in my regeneration, and barrier, and I have a huge boost in the melee department. Daken is the only one who can really contend with these two factors. Sabertooth and X-23 can beat Barrier, but it'll dampen their blows some, and they lack the range that Cloud has with his sword(s).
Limit Breaks:
Vincent can go Galiant beast. Which has powerful AoE fire attacks that it can pump out rapidly. It also has regeneration and massive durability. Over and above this he has strength that can rip through armored vehicles like their nothing, and speed to dodge rockets,and bullets alike, over and above his already potent speed and reflexes. He can only hold this form for a minute or two. He has other transformations, but this was the only one in Dirge, so I'm going to keep him to this one for the sake of consistency over gameplay. I also only plan on him using this if he absolutely has to go melee, but in this form he can rip people in half with no real issue.
Cloud Strife: His Climhazzard was capable of cutting through something that was capable of tanking Vincent's bullets and Yuffie's strikes (Bahamut SIN). His cross slash was able to knock that same monster to the ground and KO it. He has Braver, which is pretty much just an overpowered single strike attack. He also has another attack that hits a wide fan in front of him (capable of carving into steel with ease, used it against Sephiroth). However, his most powerful attack is Omni-Slash, which appears to strike through the victim's soul (used on Sephiroth at the end of their battle, notice Sephiroth sustained no slash wounds, but was killed nonetheless). If the fight goes on too long, Omni-Slash will come out, and it should be more than enough to KO anyone on your team.
I'm not saying I can make it out of this with no casualties, but I also have a team of characters who are above the bullet timer mark. Plus I have massive AoE attacks, huge mobility advantages, and all my characters are meta human in their stats. Your guys may use peak human to it's full potential, but my team left peak human stats a long while ago and are now above that line. Daken has the best shot here because of his ability to negate healing factors.
Closing statement: This is close, but my team can jump between AoE, melee, ranged, etc. etc. (already made this point). Before I didn't know I could use materia, but with that available, my team is very potent, and still adheres to the rules. I can enter Spiderman+ levels of speed for brief periods of time, plus I can regenerate wounds (regen isn't an instant cure, it's continuously repairs the users wounds for several minutes before it times out), and good durability. Some of my materia has timers, but it can all be reactivated in a moment's time. Add in Spider Woman and Jubilee, and this is a good fight.
Thanks for reading,
Floopay
Edit: Put stalk instead of stock...silly me. Must be listening to too much Sting!
Log in to comment