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#1 Posted by Wardemon32 (4101 posts) - - Show Bio

Location: A planet made from by Mky himself that is indestructable.

Team 1: SSJLozza

1. Goku

2. Vegeta

3. Gohan

4. Every other MAIN AND CANON DBZ character

Team 2: Wardemon32

1. Flash(Wally West)

Rules:

  • Only canon characters
  • If feats are done in non canon story lines then those feats are not allowed.
  • Morals(Off)
  • No prep
  • No-one is on this planet except for Flash and the rest of DBZ
  • Planets can not be destroyed

#2 Posted by Batman242 (4860 posts) - - Show Bio

Much better than debating in another thread.

#3 Edited by SSJLozza (1528 posts) - - Show Bio

Right ok well I think there are a number of reasons why Flash can't solo DBZ:

1. DBZ characters move at relativistic+ speeds, therefore Flash is not so much faster than them that he can defeat them all in fast enough succession that none will notice him and ki blast him to dust.

2. Numerous DBZ characters have displayed planetary level durability (e.g. Frieza and Buu demonstrated that he can simply reform after a planet bust- I know there is no planet busting in this thread, but that speaks volumes about durability).

3. Flash has no answer to Majin Buu, since every single cell in his body must be destroyed in order for him to be defeated.

#4 Posted by Wardemon32 (4101 posts) - - Show Bio

DBZ characters move at relativistic+ speeds, therefore Flash is not so much faster than them that he can defeat them all in fast enough succession that none will notice him and ki blast him to dust.

Now what you said is wrong on this part. Flash has way to many feats on speed to comapre his speed to DBZ characters. Another thing I want to get out of the way right now is that Goku's notorious Kameameha wont work on Flash. Why? Flash is teh good guy and that only works on evil people.

Now for the Ki Blast assumption:

Flash actually has a Speed aura around him protecting him from blast of such. That's why he runs many times the speed of light without suffering from friction. And here's a scan of him taking Supermans laser beam. Now before you try to differentiate the difference between Supermans beams vs Ki Blast I'm going to do it. Ki Blast is just force power while Supermans are both Force power and heat, making it much more effective.

Also don't think those Ki Blast would ACTUALLY touch him. that's just PIS. I don't even think that their blast travel at light speed and even if they did I have a scan of Flash dodging multiple lasers at the speed of light(keep in mind this was years ago and he was slower then)

Numerous DBZ characters have displayed planetary level durability (e.g. Frieza and Buu demonstrated that he can simply reform after a planet bust- I know there is no planet busting in this thread, but that speaks volumes about durability).

This also doesn't mean they can take a couple of IMP's from Flash. Keep in mind that DBZ characters doesn't have the combat speed to punch FTL but yet you see them STILL being hurt by a couple of punches after a while. If Flash were to give them atleast 10 IMPs they would feel it and/or go down for good. Why? Flash has hit someone with an IMP and it almost killed him, ONE IMP sent him flying out of the atmosphere and almost killed the guy. Just imagine two or three? That is good game.

This guy he IMP'd was a White Martian. A White Martian are the equal to Green Martians such as Martian Manhunter. Green Martians are also about the same level as Kyptonians such as Superman. And we both know that Martian Manhunter and Superman has an AMAZING durability. And their durability is close to White Maritans so their all about tied when it comes to durability. This alone means that Flash can kill Superman or Maritan Manuhnter with ONE PUNCH. Yes Superman, the guy who survived an exploding sun to the face from point blank range and only being knocked out for a few. If he were to give some DBZ characters a few of them they are dead.

Flash has no answer to Majin Buu, since every single cell in his body must be destroyed in order for him to be defeated.

False. Flash actually has three answeres that I can come up with without even going to look for any scans.

  • Speed Steal
  • Vibration Of Molecules(Which he can do to the point where ALL of your molecules are destroyed to which you cease to exist, he does this by vibrating to the point where he disrupts all of their molecules and they turn into nothing, no molecules left to come back from)
  • Speed Force Dump(The fast and simple way of saying goodybye. Flash has actually done this Superboy prime and when he came out it had him scared to death. While in the Speed Force time flies by so fast to you. So if you were in there for 3 mintues, it would feel like 3 years. Effectivly driving someone insane and never seeing them again)
#5 Edited by SSJLozza (1528 posts) - - Show Bio

DBZ characters move at relativistic+ speeds, therefore Flash is not so much faster than them that he can defeat them all in fast enough succession that none will notice him and ki blast him to dust.

Now what you said is wrong on this part. Flash has way to many feats on speed to comapre his speed to DBZ characters. Another thing I want to get out of the way right now is that Goku's notorious Kameameha wont work on Flash. Why? Flash is teh good guy and that only works on evil people.

Now for the Ki Blast assumption:

Flash actually has a Speed aura around him protecting him from blast of such. That's why he runs many times the speed of light without suffering from friction. And here's a scan of him taking Supermans laser beam. Now before you try to differentiate the difference between Supermans beams vs Ki Blast I'm going to do it. Ki Blast is just force power while Supermans are both Force power and heat, making it much more effective.

Also don't think those Ki Blast would ACTUALLY touch him. that's just PIS. I don't even think that their blast travel at light speed and even if they did I have a scan of Flash dodging multiple lasers at the speed of light(keep in mind this was years ago and he was slower then)

Numerous DBZ characters have displayed planetary level durability (e.g. Frieza and Buu demonstrated that he can simply reform after a planet bust- I know there is no planet busting in this thread, but that speaks volumes about durability).

This also doesn't mean they can take a couple of IMP's from Flash. Keep in mind that DBZ characters doesn't have the combat speed to punch FTL but yet you see them STILL being hurt by a couple of punches after a while. If Flash were to give them atleast 10 IMPs they would feel it and/or go down for good. Why? Flash has hit someone with an IMP and it almost killed him, ONE IMP sent him flying out of the atmosphere and almost killed the guy. Just imagine two or three? That is good game.

This guy he IMP'd was a White Martian. A White Martian are the equal to Green Martians such as Martian Manhunter. Green Martians are also about the same level as Kyptonians such as Superman. And we both know that Martian Manhunter and Superman has an AMAZING durability. And their durability is close to White Maritans so their all about tied when it comes to durability. This alone means that Flash can kill Superman or Maritan Manuhnter with ONE PUNCH. Yes Superman, the guy who survived an exploding sun to the face from point blank range and only being knocked out for a few. If he were to give some DBZ characters a few of them they are dead.

Flash has no answer to Majin Buu, since every single cell in his body must be destroyed in order for him to be defeated.

False. Flash actually has three answeres that I can come up with without even going to look for any scans.

  • Speed Steal
  • Vibration Of Molecules(Which he can do to the point where ALL of your molecules are destroyed to which you cease to exist, he does this by vibrating to the point where he disrupts all of their molecules and they turn into nothing, no molecules left to come back from)
  • Speed Force Dump(The fast and simple way of saying goodybye. Flash has actually done this Superboy prime and when he came out it had him scared to death. While in the Speed Force time flies by so fast to you. So if you were in there for 3 mintues, it would feel like 3 years. Effectivly driving someone insane and never seeing them again)

Kamehameha works on good and bad people- you're thinking of the spirit bomb.

1. Goku and Vegeta can fuse into Vegito- multiplying their already immense power and speed.

2. I'm sure that the speed steal has been ret-conned although I'm not so sure about the other two strategies.

3. What's to stop Buu from absorbing every single other DBZ character in order to multiply his ki to the extent that his speed matches the Flash?

#6 Edited by Wardemon32 (4101 posts) - - Show Bio

@ssjlozza:

OK, spirit bomb then. It doesn't even matter because I do belivie the spirit bomb is more effective anyway.

Goku and Vegeta can fuse into Vegito- multiplying their already immense power and speed.

Here is the first biggest mistake. One that little dance they do or whatever takes time, something they really don't have while fighting Flash. I can just see it right now, Flash is just knocking people out and then he just speeds up his perception of time for the humor to watch Vegeta and Goku to do a little dance lmao. But seriously

  • Goku or Vegeta wouldn't even have the time to do that.
  • That would be a BIG mistake on their part. I'll list why below

You said that it would be multiplying their immense power and speed. First, I don't even think that their comined speed ot whatever wouldn't even add up for Flash speed. Flash already multuiple times faster than the speed of light without speed steal, wait I just said speed steal lmao.

So for the hell of it, we let Goku and Vegito do their little dance to trun into Vegito multiplying their power and speed by A LOT(whcih still wouldn't add up to Flash speed). Did you know that Flash can just speed steal from them? And since you said multiplying their power instead of adding it all together that would make it even worse? If it is multiplied Flash can speed steal and all of that power would go to him making Flash even MORE powerful than he already is.

Example: Goku power is 10 and Vegeta's is ten. If it were to add their power together it would make their power level combined 20. but if it were to multiply it would go to a number like 100. So Flash is actually stealing MUCH more power and adding it onto his. Either way, he leaves both of them as a statue leaving them vulnerable for an IMP.

I'm sure that the speed steal has been ret-conned although I'm not so sure about the other two strategies.

No it hasn't. Do you mean that it's not in new 52 yet? Wally West and speed stealing ahs always been there.

What's to stop Buu from absorbing every single other DBZ character in order to multiply his ki to the extent that his speed matches the Flash?

Truthfully there's nothing really to stop him but....

By then Flash would have already IMP'd most of them leaving them dead. If their dead they have no more energy. But, lets say some actually lived, they would be weak. And you should know that when their weak they tend to have less energy than they normally have.

If Buu were to actually do that that would just leave Buu vs Flash. Like I said all of their combined energy would NEVER add up to Flash, NEVER.

They all go FTL, I don't even think they can go like 2x the speed of light.

The author got his math wrong in the last scan where he saved people from a nuke. It has actually been calculated that he was going trillions times faster the speed of light. And I do belive the same would go for the first two scans since he scanned half a million people's faces. Both of which he didn't need to speed steal or anything.

Now if Buu were to speed steal from everyone on DBZ, Flash would jsut do the same to him. Keep in mind that Buu can't do that to Flash sinceFlash is connected to teh speed force(an unlimited amount of energy). Flash is too connected to the speed force to have his energy taken like that also, before you say anything like that. So even if Buu steals energy from others Flash can steal it from him. Summay for this third bullet

  • Buu speed still wont match up to Flash
  • Flash can speed steal from Buu as an alternative(There is also a time where Flash had so much energy from absorbtion he even beat Instantaneous Teleportation, which is faster than DBZ teleportation so that's also out of teh window if you try to bring that up)
#7 Posted by Wardemon32 (4101 posts) - - Show Bio
#8 Posted by debeze (243 posts) - - Show Bio

DBZ WINS CAUSE IS MY FAVORITE ANIME

#9 Edited by Dredeuced (5353 posts) - - Show Bio

@debeze said:

DBZ WINS CAUSE IS MY FAVORITE ANIME

This is irrelevant. You vote for who debated better in Viner vs Viner threads, not because you like one series more than another. It's also not prudent to vote on things based on pure fan wanking. Just because I like Spiderman doesn't mean I think he can beat Superman.

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#10 Posted by Simon_the_digger (2853 posts) - - Show Bio

^ Epic argument.

#11 Posted by debeze (243 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced: dbz is my favorite anime so it wins in my mind

#12 Edited by Dredeuced (5353 posts) - - Show Bio

@debeze said:

@dredeuced: dbz is my favorite anime so it wins in my mind

So your mind just doesn't function correctly or something? You think DBZ beats Living Tribunal or Lucifer Morningstar? Favoritism is a stupid and rule breaking way to vote in these threads, and it's doubly stupid in CaV threads because you're not supposed to vote purely on the characters, but how the debaters presented the argument. Just leave if the only thing you're here to do is go "DBZ is the best!" while adding nothing to the conversation.

Jesus, you're not even supposed to vote until they're done arguing, which they're clearly not. Could you atleast think a small amount before posting?

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#13 Posted by debeze (243 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced: IDK If thats a rule but dbz is amazing

#14 Edited by Dredeuced (5353 posts) - - Show Bio

@debeze said:

@dredeuced: IDK If thats a rule but dbz is amazing

Throw away your personal bias. I love Gambit, but I'm not going to say "Gambit, duh!" in Gambit vs Hulk. There's no shame in a character you love losing a battle. Right there, by a staff member, in required reading to post on the forum which you clearly skipped over.

And, again, in debates where it's individual users facing each other, you wait until they are both done and ask for votes before voting, because you clearly haven't read their argument and are clearly not giving them a fair, unbiased vote if you just walk in and say a character wins because you like them. It's despicable behavior and defeats the purpose of viner vs viner threads, where you vote for the DEBATER, not the characters.

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#18 Posted by debeze (243 posts) - - Show Bio

I Think IT is faster than flash

#19 Posted by Dredeuced (5353 posts) - - Show Bio

@debeze said:

I Think IT is faster than flash

This is not your debate.

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#20 Posted by Grandmastersexyhd (305 posts) - - Show Bio

@wardemon32 Seems to have won the debate, though I thought Flash could already Solo DBZ anyways he made it that much more clear unless SSJLozza has anymore input to his debate

#21 Posted by debeze (243 posts) - - Show Bio

guldo freezes time and kills wally , theend

#22 Posted by uberhikari (2462 posts) - - Show Bio

Is this finished? Can we vote?

#23 Posted by SSJLozza (1528 posts) - - Show Bio

@ssjlozza: Are you done already?

No I've just been out all day.

DBZ characters can fly, when has the Flash ever flown? If he cannot fly then they can simply span ki blasts at him and sooner or later one would be bound to hit.

Guldo can stop time as debeze just helpfully pointed out. Guldo can also fly therefore he can fly up in the air and stop time and then annihilate Flash (who only has human level durability as far as I know and even if not Guldo would be at least city buster, porbably country buster level).

#24 Posted by uberhikari (2462 posts) - - Show Bio

@debeze: Stop interfering in this thread. This is a debate between 2 people, and outside help is NOT allowed. If you continue to not follow the rules, I'm going to flag you and get a mod in here.

#25 Posted by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

DBZ charachters couldn't touch Wally in their wildest dreams.

#26 Posted by THC (367 posts) - - Show Bio

The Flash wanking, it hurts my brain.

@god_spawn

Can we get this locked? Universe battles are off limits. And there are so many that could solo it's not even worth counting.

#27 Edited by debeze (243 posts) - - Show Bio

wait a sec, is only between 2 ppl?

#28 Posted by uberhikari (2462 posts) - - Show Bio

@debeze: Yes, didn't you read the title? That's why the title says SSJLozza vs Wardemon32.

#29 Edited by PrinceAragorn1 (16129 posts) - - Show Bio

@debeze: Yes, that's what challange a viner wins. It's not about which side you support, it's about who debated better. The match could be spiderman vs justice league and still we could say the spidey debator won (ok that was a bit too much, but you get the point.)

@calebhara: Same goes for you. You could do a cav thread later or comment in the general flash vs dbz thread, not a cav one..

Edit: Just saiyan, you're free to interrupt and get the thread locked. Just don't attack me over this.

#30 Edited by Grandmastersexyhd (305 posts) - - Show Bio

@thc said:

The Flash wanking, it hurts my brain.

@god_spawn

Can we get this locked? Universe battles are off limits. And there are so many that could solo it's not even worth counting.

Well I don't believe this is a Uni vs. Uni battle, just a on-going debate from what started at another thread to discuss reasoning's behind why Flash could or couldn't Solo all of DBZ and these two (Wardemon32 and SSJLozza) are suppose to give there points without any help to back their previous statements up. I think it's a fair thread to say the least without the extra help from others on here.

#31 Posted by God_Spawn (37355 posts) - - Show Bio

@thc said:

The Flash wanking, it hurts my brain.

@god_spawn

Can we get this locked? Universe battles are off limits. And there are so many that could solo it's not even worth counting.

Well I don't believe this is a Uni vs. Uni battle, just a on-going debate from what started at another thread to discuss reasoning's behind why Flash could or couldn't Solo all of DBZ and these two (Wardemon32 and SSJLozza) are suppose to give there points without any help to back their previous statements up. I think it's a fair thread to say the least without the extra help from others on here.

Still, character X vs universe X battles are against the rules, but I see this being at least more contained as IT SHOULD be between just these two people so everyone else in here posting links and not apart of the debate should wait to post.

Moderator
#32 Posted by Dredeuced (5353 posts) - - Show Bio

@thc said:

The Flash wanking, it hurts my brain.

@god_spawn

Can we get this locked? Universe battles are off limits. And there are so many that could solo it's not even worth counting.

While you are technically right that Universe vs Character X threads are banned, atleast understand the reason behind the rule:

"These types of threads are be banned. Universe vs Universe threads involve too many people or a person vs a universe could end up becoming a stomp and offer no debates at all. Like Superman Prime vs Marvel Universe. He would end up fighting some being that he wouldn't beat and if you do the universe vs universe threads it just ends up being omnipotent vs omnipotent which is also against the rules and offers no debate. This is an extension of the be careful with team battles but this is gonna be cracked down on more."

Universe threads are banned because this is a comic forum and comic universes have banned omnipotents and too many factors. DBZ actually has a very limited cast and nothing even resembling an omnipotent character or high tier reality warper. By the strictest definition this thread should be banned, but the intent behind the rule is not being broken. I suppose it would be up to @god_spawn or any other mod to interpret it one way or another.

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#33 Edited by Wardemon32 (4101 posts) - - Show Bio

@ssjlozza: Well flying wont help in this scenario. Flash has also flown before by creating a tornado with his hands. But, here's a reason why flying wont save them. Flash doesn't need to actually toch someone to drain them of their speed. And they wouldn't even have the time to react. By the first pico second they would all be dead, actually less than that. If it takes Flash to scan 500,000 faces in one picosecond, it should take him FAR less to punch about what, 100 people in the face? Two IMPs and about all of tehm would go down so DBZ doesn't even have that type of reaction.

AND WHY ARE YOU PEOPLE TALKING. IF YOU ACTUALLY READ THE OP IT SAYS FLASH VS DBZ(ALL CANON AND MAIN CHARACTERS). THAT IS FAR FROM A WHOLE UNIVERSE.

Edit: Flash durability is FAR from human. The guy took multiple lightning bolts sicne he can accelerate his healing factor. He also took a punch from mongul and got up like it was nothing to contine to beat the crap out of him. Mongul can beat Superman and is arguably stronger. Do you want scans? Flash also broke the time barrier before, plus he was slower then.

#34 Posted by SSJLozza (1528 posts) - - Show Bio

@ssjlozza: Well flying wont help in this scenario. Flash has also flown before by creating a tornado with his hands. But, here's a reason why flying wont save them. Flash doesn't need to actually toch someone to drain them of their speed. And they wouldn't even have the time to react. By the first pico second they would all be dead, actually less than that. If it takes Flash to scan 500,000 faces in one picosecond, it should take him FAR less to punch about what, 100 people in the face? Two IMPs and about all of tehm would go down so DBZ doesn't even have that type of reaction.

AND WHY ARE YOU PEOPLE TALKING. IF YOU ACTUALLY READ THE OP IT SAYS FLASH VS DBZ(ALL CANON AND MAIN CHARACTERS). THAT IS FAR FROM A WHOLE UNIVERSE.

Edit: Flash durability is FAR from human. The guy took multiple lightning bolts sicne he can accelerate his healing factor. He also took a punch from mongul and got up like it was nothing to contine to beat the crap out of him. Mongul can beat Superman and is arguably stronger. Do you want scans? Flash also broke the time barrier before, plus he was slower then.

His durability is likely many times lower than DBZ characters though. Btw you still haven't said how he combats Guldo stopping time?

#35 Edited by Wardemon32 (4101 posts) - - Show Bio

@ssjlozza: If you break the time barrier, time is no-longer relevant to you. You can't freeze time within frozen time. That just doesn't make any sesne. I said Flash has broken the time barrier which is basically freezing time.

No it is not, he heals instantly. He also took an IMP which proves that he actually has a higher durability than Superman in terms of punches.

Guldo also has to hold his breath just to freeze time. The only reason he had enough time to freeze time is because Gohan and Krillin is too slow to get to him first. While Flash is already starting out millions of times faster than the speed of light and has pico second reaction time. Freeze time needs reaction. If he freezes time he is the only one that moves also.

It's not like he freezes time isntantly. And he still had a hard time putting up a fight. Now for this paralysis spell. It's not like they can't think. So let's say SOMEHOW he caught Flash with this spell. Flash can still steal his energy breaking the spell and leaving Guldo there like a statue.

At teh end of the vid he got his head chopped off lmao. Flash punches it off. And why didn't he fly when he first froze time? Instead of running so far. Are you guys sure he can fly? Even if he can he still gets speed stole.

He doesn't even have the reaction time. This vid alone shows he can't even take one IMP.

#36 Posted by Wardemon32 (4101 posts) - - Show Bio
#37 Edited by SSJLozza (1528 posts) - - Show Bio

@ssjlozza: That's you last arguement?

Yeah lets allow the voting now if you're cool with that?

#38 Posted by Wardemon32 (4101 posts) - - Show Bio
#39 Posted by Walzo (4355 posts) - - Show Bio

Flash.

#40 Posted by Grandmastersexyhd (305 posts) - - Show Bio
#41 Posted by dondave (34588 posts) - - Show Bio

I vote for Wardemon

#42 Edited by Tim_Drake4444 (1071 posts) - - Show Bio

Flash

#43 Posted by uberhikari (2462 posts) - - Show Bio

Flash

#44 Posted by xeon1cs (1479 posts) - - Show Bio

Wardemon.

#45 Edited by Simon_the_digger (2853 posts) - - Show Bio

Wardemon32 has my vote.

#46 Edited by NeonGameWave (7704 posts) - - Show Bio

Wardemon32.

#47 Edited by SSJLozza (1528 posts) - - Show Bio

lmao ok I'm clearly gonna get murdered here.

#48 Posted by GrandSymbiote94 (11523 posts) - - Show Bio

Wardemon23.

#49 Edited by Wardemon32 (4101 posts) - - Show Bio
#50 Posted by SSJLozza (1528 posts) - - Show Bio