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#1 Posted by uberhikari (2474 posts) - - Show Bio

Just what the title says: this is a fight between Super Saiyan God Mode Goku and Bills vs Dark Schneider (w/ Judas Pain and Dragon Knight Lucifer).

  1. This fight can only end by death or K.O. (no BFR)
  2. The fighters are all bloodlusted with NO morals.
  3. Fight takes place on some random planet the size of the sun.

Vs

#2 Edited by NeonGameWave (8336 posts) - - Show Bio

@uberhikari: Did you even watch the movie? Its strange how you would say that Bills wouldn`t be able to beat Silver Surfer yet Dark Schneider basically is like Silver Surfer level or above but in terms of this fight, Dark Schneider kills SSJG Goku but Bills might be able to defeat him although its hard to say since Dark Schneider has Dispel Bound.

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#3 Edited by uberhikari (2474 posts) - - Show Bio

@neongamewave: I personally don't think Bills can beat Dark Schneider which is the reason why I also included SSJG Goku, but I made this thread to see what everybody else thought. And no, I haven't seen the movie but I've read the synopsis and have seen all the clips.

#4 Posted by NeonGameWave (8336 posts) - - Show Bio

@uberhikari: Point taken. But wasn`t that the same exact reason you were arguing against me for in regards to me only reading the synopsis and watching the clips? I also know someone who has actually seen the movie in Japan.

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#5 Edited by uberhikari (2474 posts) - - Show Bio

@neongamewave: I wasn't arguing against you because you hadn't seen the movie, I accepted pretty much everything you said about Bills except him being a galaxy buster and having MFTL combat speed.

#6 Edited by NeonGameWave (8336 posts) - - Show Bio

@uberhikari: Point taken but it was actually proven that he can fight at MFTL speeds, I understand what you mean in regards to the Galaxy Busting argument but I`m pretty sure that Bills is a galaxy buster but many would dismiss it as DBZ logic, feats are the grand requirement.

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#7 Edited by uberhikari (2474 posts) - - Show Bio

@neongamewave: There is no evidence that Bills has MFTL combat speed. He was faster than Goku's IT but that just makes him FTL not MFTL. What's your definition of MFTL?

#8 Edited by NeonGameWave (8336 posts) - - Show Bio

@uberhikari: He clearly outpaced Goku`s IT which is instantaneous and he held back as well, the proof can be found here:

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/bills-vs-silver-surfer-1450635/?page=3

See comment 131.

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#9 Posted by AngryHulks (3001 posts) - - Show Bio

@neongamewave: There is no evidence that Bills has MFTL combat speed. He was faster than Goku's IT but that just makes him FTL not MFTL. What's your definition of MFTL?

I think what makes people believe that DBZ characters are all FTL because of "faster than lighting" claim.

Here is some proof that even you can't trust the narrator, before anyone say I'm using double-standard, here is something I won't even believe in comics.

#10 Edited by uberhikari (2474 posts) - - Show Bio

@neongamewave: We have to establish basic things first. In order for you to claim that a character is MFTL, you first have to give me your definition of MFTL.

Moreover, just because someone is faster than IT doesn't necessarily mean they're MFTL. It means they're FTL but not MFTL. Also, the comment you linked doesn't prove that Bills has MFTL combat speed, it shows he has MFTL travel speed and that's all.

#11 Edited by SlimJ87D (10555 posts) - - Show Bio

@angryhulks: Closes thing to hinting that they are FTL. Vegeta has a training session on speed in his base form and there are orbs that fire light at him and he dodges and and turns off all the orbs. Now we dont' know for sure how fast those lasers are though.

It's at least safe to assume that base Goku is capable of traveling half way around Namek in a second making him about 1/14 the speed of light during the Frieza saga as the instant Frieza is about to deliver a killing blow Goku flies from one side of namek to the other which is roughly the same size as Earth or possibly larger.

It is not a question if DBZ characters flight speeds match their combat speeds as they always have.

P.S. What is MFTL? Did you guys come up with a new term or something?

#12 Edited by NeonGameWave (8336 posts) - - Show Bio

@uberhikari: My definition would be short and simple. Although not actually an official term but rather a way to describe one`s movement beyond FTL speeds and things that surpass it.

Definition: One who can move beyond the speed of light and supersede it in all instances as well as far surpass instantaneous movement, nanosecond reaction time, concept of sound, thought and speed limit defined through travel within the utmost reaches of the universe itself.

As the definition of FTL stands here in its definity:

Refers to speeds faster than the speed of light in a vacuum, the theoretical speed limit for travel within the universe.

Communications and travel refer to the propagation of information or matter faster than the speed of light.

IT is instantaneous in probably all instances many misconceive the potential and idea of IT based on Goku`s fight with Kid Buu as well as where he needs to travel from in order to get Point A.

Even if Bills is not MFTL he would still probably surpass Silver Surfer who travels at FTL speeds but he doesn`t actually fight at those very same speeds, also remember Bills was holding back by a lot he clearly is way faster than light and he traveled all the way from King Kai`s planet to Earth even when King Kai was in telepathic communication with Vegeta in that very same instant.

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#13 Posted by AngryHulks (3001 posts) - - Show Bio

@uberhikari: My definition would be short and simple. Although not actually an official term but rather a way to describe one`s movement beyond FTL speeds and things that surpass it.

Definition: One who can move beyond the speed of light and supersede it in all instances as well as far surpass instantaneous movement, nanosecond reaction time, concept of sound, thought and speed limit defined through travel within the utmost reaches of the universe itself.

As the definition of FTL stands here in its definity:

Refers to speeds faster than the speed of light in a vacuum, the theoretical speed limit for travel within the universe.

Communications and travel refer to the propagation of information or matter faster than the speed of light.

IT is instantaneous in probably all instances many misconceive the potential and idea of IT based on Goku`s fight with Kid Buu as well as where he needs to travel from in order to get Point A.

Even if Bills is not MFTL he would still probably surpass Silver Surfer who travels at FTL speeds but he doesn`t actually fight at those very same speeds, also remember Bills was holding back by a lot he clearly is way faster than light and he traveled all the way from King Kai`s planet to Earth even when King Kai was in telepathic communication with Vegeta in that very same instant.

There's no limit to FTL, Silver Surfer could be as little as 0.00001% faster than light to millions of times faster than light (I'm making up numbers here for an example). MFTL is not really a useful vocabulary terms. In many fictional work, communication at FTL is pretty common from what I know.

#14 Edited by NeonGameWave (8336 posts) - - Show Bio

@angryhulks: I agree. Which is why I said its not an official term but a term used merely to emphasis on the idea of how fast one would be beyond that of light and what already supersedes it but Bills is definitely at least FTL in combat speed the Silver Surfer`s speed excels like Superman more so in traveling and traversing throughout space when in taking flight.

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#15 Posted by AngryHulks (3001 posts) - - Show Bio

@angryhulks: I agree. Which is why I said its not an official term but a term merely to emphasis on the ides of how fast one would be beyond that of light and what already supersedes it but Bills is definitely at least FTL in combat speed the Silver Surfer`s speed excels like Superman more so in traveling and traversing throughout space when in taking flight.

To me, MFTL is like trying to put DBZ characters on Flash's level, which I don't think that's even true. The speed of average DBZ characters is still arguable, but I don't think we have to get into it now as I don't think there'll be any ends to it.

In the end, no matter who's trying to prove it, the quantity that writer or handbook gives is ultimately a real answer, who knows that things might turns out ironic (remember that writer have limits to their scientific knowledge)?

Silver Surfer still have better perception feats than Bills or anyone he fought with.

#16 Posted by SpideyPresence (1906 posts) - - Show Bio

Lol Uber, you know this is a stomp. Schneider finishes this easily.

#17 Posted by Dredeuced (5775 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't get how someone is even faster than instant transmission. I thought the claim that it was only light speed was a mistranslation and that it was actually instant (seeing as he was able to instantly teleport Cell to King Kai's planet etc).

#18 Posted by reikai (4521 posts) - - Show Bio

IT is point-to-point teleportation. All Bills has to do is sense where Goku is going to come out and move. A similar notation in GT when Super 17 was hitting SS4 Goku just as he was coming out of IT, explaining he could feel the disturbance in the atmosphere just before Goku reappeared. Bills may be doing something similar, or he could have IT as well and knows how to work around it. I mean he is supposedly millions of years old or something.

#19 Posted by NeonGameWave (8336 posts) - - Show Bio

@angryhulks:

I agree. They wouldn` be on Flash`s level but they would still be fast in combat and by their own standards.

Agreed. However, Cell would be a solar system buster though since Akira Toriyama confirmed it within an official handbook and I believe its true.

To some degree but Bills is faster in combat and he is the better fighter, as well as tactician especially in comparison to the characters Silver Surfer fights.

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#20 Posted by THC (367 posts) - - Show Bio

To me Vegeta's recent laser dodging feat is clear indication that he is light speed in base form at this point.

Frieza is anywhere between 50% speed of light to twice the speed of light by scaling logic and by the Buu saga I'm certain Vegeta in base form could beat him now.

Either the lasers are heat/concussive/destructive that would all be minor fractions of the speed of light, which Goku has been dodging since he was a child

Or they're around light speed, like Frieza was, and the feat fits perfectly with scaling logic

#21 Posted by BillzTheGodOfDestruction (71 posts) - - Show Bio

bills solos with a galaxy busting attack

#22 Edited by Simon_the_digger (3198 posts) - - Show Bio

@slimj87d: MFTL means massively faster than light, well that's what I gather from Outskirts Battledome.

#23 Posted by debeze (243 posts) - - Show Bio

when bills KO'd ssj3 goku he left king kais planet meanwhile king kai told vegeta about bills and when he was gonna tell bulma he was already @ bulmas party sitting in a chair

#24 Edited by Lvenger (21066 posts) - - Show Bio

@slimj87d said:

@angryhulks: Closes thing to hinting that they are FTL. Vegeta has a training session on speed in his base form and there are orbs that fire light at him and he dodges and and turns off all the orbs. Now we dont' know for sure how fast those lasers are though.

It's at least safe to assume that base Goku is capable of traveling half way around Namek in a second making him about 1/14 the speed of light during the Frieza saga as the instant Frieza is about to deliver a killing blow Goku flies from one side of namek to the other which is roughly the same size as Earth or possibly larger.

It is not a question if DBZ characters flight speeds match their combat speeds as they always have.

P.S. What is MFTL? Did you guys come up with a new term or something?

I think it means Much Faster Than Light. And why is Vegeta singing and dancing? Is Battle of the Gods a DBZ musical now?

#25 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (19517 posts) - - Show Bio

Isn't the thread a bit derailed..?

#26 Posted by debeze (243 posts) - - Show Bio

bills solos

#27 Posted by Regal_Rumble_Man (874 posts) - - Show Bio

How exactly do they pass the Dispel Bound?

#28 Posted by ImperiexPrime (27 posts) - - Show Bio

Bills is definitely MFTL.

#29 Posted by SlimJ87D (10555 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger:

Thanks for the reply. And to be honest I think the movie sounds really dumb from what I have read. It was in the making for like almost 2 years and this is the garbage story we get. Oh well. Hopefully a new series is written a lot better if they decide for the DBZ characters to fight and take down all the gods.

#30 Edited by DarkAgeKiller (47 posts) - - Show Bio

Bills solos.

#31 Posted by uberhikari (2474 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't know if people have done the calculations but going by feats Bills is only about 3x FTL. Snake Way is 1 million km long, so even If Bills traveled from King Kai's planet to Earth in 1 second that would put him around 3x FTL. However, he did do this very casually so he's certainly much, much faster than this. Just how fast though, we don't know.

#32 Posted by Lvenger (21066 posts) - - Show Bio

@slimj87d: Have you read the synopsis on Kazenshuu? It's not quite what I was expecting but Bills does make for a better villain than Majiin Buu. He actually has a personality after all. And things might get very interesting if Goku and Vegeta can take down gods in the new DBZ series. Has Toriyama confirmed a new series yet?

#33 Edited by reikai (4521 posts) - - Show Bio

Toriyama is waiting to see how well this latest movie is received before deciding if he's going to do another series or movie. If people don't buy it or see it and don't show much interest, he'll have no drive or reason to continue on with it. But from what I'm hearing people are only complaining about Bills being a greatly powerful figure over the actual story, and that's no way to judge a movie. Just sounds like more hater talk.

But for this, Dark Schneider wins. FTL, teleportation, multi-dimensional magic. Darsh even has spells that destroy your molecules and erase you.

And this was before Dragon Knight Lucifer, which multiplies is power 14x in Majin Form. Activating the Judas Pain turned him Majin and multiplied the power of his spells several million fold.

#34 Posted by SlimJ87D (10555 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@slimj87d: Have you read the synopsis on Kazenshuu? It's not quite what I was expecting but Bills does make for a better villain than Majiin Buu. He actually has a personality after all. And things might get very interesting if Goku and Vegeta can take down gods in the new DBZ series. Has Toriyama confirmed a new series yet?

From an interview I think he said he wants to. The biggest hint mostly with the series being left with a cliff hanger with Bills being put to sleep by his master for another few years. I bet to fight Whis or later threats both Vegeta and Goku will fuse and form a God mode fusion of some sorts. We'll have to wait and see. Vegeta has already foreshadowed that he wants to be a Super Saiyan God next time.

I just thought all the child like humor was a real turn off for me. The series, including the last movie where Vegeta's little brother was introduced, was taking the series in a PG rated one. I like the more serious tone of the series. Vegeta and Piccolo singing Karaoke. It's just too comical for my taste.

#35 Posted by terry2012 (5721 posts) - - Show Bio

Would not MFTL means Massively Faster Than The Speed Of Light?

#36 Posted by SpideyPresence (1906 posts) - - Show Bio

I have a feeling people don't know who Dark Schneider is.

#37 Posted by uberhikari (2474 posts) - - Show Bio
#38 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (19517 posts) - - Show Bio

@spideypresence: So why not start posting scans to make people familiar with him. He's quite awesome.

#39 Posted by dondave (38780 posts) - - Show Bio

Dark Schneider ftw

@slimj87d: I hear all the time that Goku, Vegeta and the like have FTL combat speeds, I know your a fan of the series and wondered if you have any scans to show this?

#40 Edited by reikai (4521 posts) - - Show Bio

I thought I already did that. But here's the solid truth.

That is pretty much the core of his personality. And he's absolutely epic.

And now here is one of his earlier spells, which traps the target inside a barrier and summons germs from Hell to consume them.

And if you haven't noticed, a lot of Dark Schneider's spells and attacks are the names of Metal Bands and/or songs related to Metal music. The name of the manga is "BASTARD!! -Heavy Metal, Dark Fantasy-"

And like I said about the Judas Pain. It makes his spells millions of times more powerful.

In base after returning from Hell he was as powerful as each of the four topmost Seraphim. Those of course being Raphael, Michael, Uriel and Gabriel. That's nothing to sneeze at. Michael launched a super-nova level attack on Uriel was he was turning into a Fallen Angel. Dark Schneider intercepted it while he was just a Head with a part of his spine. He absorbed the attack, completely regenerated himself, and at the same time had all his cohorts in Dispel Bounds during all the fighting so they wouldn't be killed by the backlash.

Oh yeah. He was so fast an FTL'er like Raphael coulnd't see him move.

#41 Posted by omegablast452 (2426 posts) - - Show Bio

Dark Schneider solo's DBZ verse

spite flagged for mismatch.

#42 Edited by terry2012 (5721 posts) - - Show Bio

@uberhikari: That What I thought it is. Because of the way how the user explain it, I was like huh?... and it was not making sense at first, until I read on a little further and say to myself, why could they just say MFTL is massively faster than the speed of light when someone had ask them the question of what it means?

#43 Posted by GrandSymbiote94 (11695 posts) - - Show Bio

@reikai: You should really post scans of the Dragon Knight armor.

#44 Posted by SlimJ87D (10555 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave said:

Dark Schneider ftw

@slimj87d: I hear all the time that Goku, Vegeta and the like have FTL combat speeds, I know your a fan of the series and wondered if you have any scans to show this?

I could never completely prove light speed. but watch the video above. Vegeta dodges light lasers, dozens of them that are going everywhere and shuts off all teh machines that were shooting them.

#45 Posted by SpideyPresence (1906 posts) - - Show Bio

@spideypresence: So why not start posting scans to make people familiar with him. He's quite awesome.

Rekai did it for me haha.

Dark Schneider solo's DBZ verse

spite flagged for mismatch.

QFT

#46 Posted by monarch_prime (408 posts) - - Show Bio

Dark Schneider solo's DBZ verse

spite flagged for mismatch.

#47 Posted by generator2000 (1165 posts) - - Show Bio

Uhh... if Bills actually CAN galaxy bust, then SSJG Goku and Bills might put up a fight.

#48 Posted by JwwProd (10294 posts) - - Show Bio

Darshy wrecks.

#49 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (19517 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow. Unbelievably one sided in favor of Dark Schneider. Can't believe I thought goku could beat him sometime..

@god_spawn: Mismatch, DBZ thread.

Uhh... if Bills actually CAN galaxy bust, then SSJG Goku and Bills might put up a fight.

That may be the case against Dark Schneider with one Judas Pain (galaxy busting).. Majin Dark Schneider has seven.

And worse, the OP shows Dragon Knight Lucifer... so it stays mismatched either way.

#50 Posted by Erik (33329 posts) - - Show Bio

Uhh... if Bills actually CAN galaxy bust, then SSJG Goku and Bills might put up a fight.

Shame on you for breaking the rules.