GDS Darkseid - abosrbs his powers, as he did to multiple other villains and objects, then breaks him. Or Omega Beams him into a sun or something. Or a black hole.
Normal Darkseid - leaving out low outliers (Superman blinded him, WTF?), he takes it, though it is a hard fought battle.
Final Crisis Darkseid - Anti-Life Equation FTW
nu52 Darkseid - probably a good fight. His Omega Beams could keep pace with Flash, and Superman's punches didn't hurt him. In fact, getting stabbed through the eyes only seemed to annoy him. I give it to him because of Omega Beams.
But do u think Darkseid can tank a blast capable of destroying the solar system and it's even more powerful than that?i mean Goku have the reaction to simply avoid Omega beam using IT
@Theorder14: Superman is planet level+, and using Darkseid's mid to high end range of feats means he is as fast as Superman, and can match punches with Superman. Superman can hold singularities and block gravity, so that itself is pretty high range. Darkseid also has telepathy and can just rip all of Goku's knowledge out of his head. He can send Goku through Boom Tubes (he can sneak up on Kryptonians using Boom Tubes, think about that), or even use Boom Tubes to direct his Omega Beams to get a clean shot.
What are SSJ4's feats? I haven't seen anything but the abridged show, so I know nothing of GT. I could be totally off base.
well, that's assuming Darkseid have boomtubes and i believe a solar system + could take out Darkseid or at the very least it would hurt him.
how often does Darkseid *rip off* knowledge of ppl? i have mostly only seen Darkseid in New 52 and in the cartoons so i haven't seen much of him at all. Goku also have telepathy himself. No1 have ever tried to mind-rape goku b4 so he don't have any *mind-resist* feats but i think that ki shield could help. TBH, i haven't seen much of GT either.
@Theorder14: He's done it once or twice in normal universe (pre-nu52), once or twice again in GDS, and had no reason to in nu52. He only ever did it when he needed to know stuff quickly, that he didn't already know; that doesn't happen often. If we use GDS Darkseid, he had enough mental powers to take something abbove 3 billion people, so Goku should definitely be able to go down to GDS.
Darkseid can also put off as much energy in a couple seconds as Apokolips puts out in a year, so that is quite a bit of energy. But he probably goes down to a solar system wide blast.
K, it seems Darkseid doesn't use telepathy in combat but since i've never seen any version of Darkseid except new52 and in the cartoons then i guess GDS Darkseid can take Goku using mental powers
@Theorder14: Mainly cause there is no point. He knows everything about everyone in main DC, so why take information he already knows? Added to that that alternate Darkseid's are at least partially connected, to the point where they can tell time has changed and know what has happened to alternate versions of themselves.
@Theorder14: Superman is planet level+, and using Darkseid's mid to high end range of feats means he is as fast as Superman, and can match punches with Superman. Superman can hold singularities and block gravity, so that itself is pretty high range. Darkseid also has telepathy and can just rip all of Goku's knowledge out of his head. He can send Goku through Boom Tubes (he can sneak up on Kryptonians using Boom Tubes, think about that), or even use Boom Tubes to direct his Omega Beams to get a clean shot.
What are SSJ4's feats? I haven't seen anything but the abridged show, so I know nothing of GT. I could be totally off base.
SS4, like all SS forms, is just a multiplier. In this case, roughly x4000 over his base form. In Goku's base form in GT he could shatter dimensions. And of course since this is DBZ, (well, GT, but same concept) Goku's durability is roughly equal to his output because both rely entirely on his ki. Probably SS4's highest end feat which seems to get ignored on a consistent basis is that it temporarily reverses the reality warping powers of the Black Star Dragon Balls.
@goblin123: Desaad used knock off Omega Beams to teleport Superman. Darkseid has used them to teleport Superman, and erase Desaad (for clarification, Desaad was the one powering up Mary Marvel in Final Crisis, so that gives his power level). He also used them to absorb other gods' powers in the main time line, and absorb Time Trapper and Mordru's powers in GDS.
is there a transformation for Goku higher than SSJ4 that I missed?
Sort of. There's Super Saiyan God, from the new movie "Battle of Gods" which came out in select theaters in Japan on the 12th, and releases nation wide in Japan on the 30th. Super Saiyan God seems extremely powerful, but there's not enough showings or statements about it to really compare it to SS4 yet.
The movie takes place during the 10 year time skip in the Buu saga, not in GT, which makes it even harder to gauge its power.
People continue to say omega beam, yet many times he doesn't auto kill everyone he hits with it aka Superman,Super Girl etc!!! Supergirl was smart enough to put him in front of it, and Goku is far better at stuff like that! If the OE doesn't kill him Goku will become immune to it. This depending on which version of Darkseid will be a very brutal match, with alot of blood! Animated Darkseid gets curbstomped, Pre Crises and Anti Life Equation versions wins, average JLA comic versions, we have a hell of a fight going on here! I see ways both can win! Stalemate!
Hey guys can anyone answer this for me? In Marvel Comics 8th day Juggernaut could open portals to other didemsions with a mere punch! But in DBZ/GT Gotenks at SS3 could do it with a scream, and we move on to our combatant here Goku, who is at SS4. Goku in his base form blew his way out of dimension, shattering it with only a Kamehameha blast! How would you guys rate that type of power,and describe these showings? Is these dimension breakings considered a highlevel feat like Juggernauts punching through Dimensions or is it considered low in due to it happening in DBZ. i think it's pretty darn impressive,and is a high end feat! It kinda gives you an idea of how powerful SS4 Goku is if he's not being lowballed by horrible PIS in GT!
@ComicStooge: Well, Goku doesn't fight the same way as Superman does, he's far superior in martial arts than superman and he have the reaction to avoid the omega beam by using IT and i doubt Darkseid could tank a solar system+ point blank
@ComicStooge: Well, Goku doesn't fight the same way as Superman does, he's far superior in martial arts than superman and he have the reaction to avoid the omega beam by using IT and i doubt Darkseid could tank a solar system+ point blank
Do you have any feats to suggest SS4 Goku has enough power to bust a solar system? And anyway, if he uses Instant Transmission, the beams will still follow him.
Well, the author officially stated that Cell and ssj2 Gohan could and it was also stated on-panel so i see no reason to not believe it. + ssj4 Goku is many times stronger than cell and ssj2 imo. but to be honest i rather use ssj3 Goku in this battle instead cus i don't consider ssj4 goku canon.
and would omega beam rly follow him if he teleported? this isn't the first time Goku has to deal with a homing beam. i don't rly remember but didn't he avoid the beam just as the flash did when he avoided the omega beam, i mean couldn't Goku just IT behind a building or mountain and i think the phanthoms would help.+ i don't think Darkseid usually start using omega beam in a fight? Goku could simply pop phanthoms and use solar flare leaving Darkseid open for a direct attack.
Well, the author officially stated that Cell and ssj2 Gohan could and it was also stated on-panel so i see no reason to not believe it. + ssj4 Goku is many times stronger than cell and ssj2 imo. but to be honest i rather use ssj3 Goku in this battle instead cus i don't consider ssj4 goku canon.
and would omega beam rly follow him if he teleported? this isn't the first time Goku has to deal with a homing beam. i don't rly remember but didn't he avoid the beam just as the flash did when he avoided the omega beam, i mean couldn't Goku just IT behind a building or mountain and i think the phanthoms would help.+ i don't think Darkseid usually start using omega beam in a fight? Goku could simply pop phanthoms and use solar flare leaving Darkseid open for a direct attack.
Author statements and characters saying things can easily be chalked up to being hyperbole, unless you have actual feats that suggest they can.
Yeah, they track you no matter where you go. And Superman gets tagged by the beams far more times then he avoids them. And Flash has to exert himself pretty hard to avoid the beams, faster then Goku could react. Since they're in the desert, there's nothing to really hide behind. Furthermore, Darkseid uses his Omega Beams in almost every fight he's engaged in, unless he doesn't want to kill his opponent - which won't be the case here.
DBZ characters are casual planet busters, how hard is it to not believe they could bust a solar system? Even when they state that they can on panel and statement from the authors. as long as there's no contradiction, i don't see any reason to not believe in it. I highly doubt it's hyperbole. Why would Akira Toriyama lie like this then? keep in mind that there's multiple authors in comic books while DBZ only have one and he's the one who created the characters and the entire dbz universe.
DBZ characters are casual planet busters, how hard is it to not believe they could bust a solar system? Even when they state that they can on panel and statement from the authors. as long as there's no contradiction, i don't see any reason to not believe in it. I highly doubt it's hyperbole. Why would Akira Toriyama lie like this then? keep in mind that there's multiple authors in comic books while DBZ only have one and he's the one who created the characters and the entire dbz universe.
Fair enough. But, can you give context on that scan? Did it take Cell a while to build up this power? If he had the power to blow up a solar system, why didn't he use it?
Anyway, I still don't see how Goku can survive Darkseid's Omega Beams, counter his telepathy (he's capable of mentally dominating worlds at a time) or how he can match him physically.
Also, Darkseid can't die, he's protected by the Source Wall:
I think it took some seconds to build it up to the point i showed in my scan but he didn't fire immediately cus they talked and it makes it hard to judge how long it took but u can check it for yourself. i think it's from chapter 415 or 416. The reason Cell doesn't blow up earth right away is because he wants a challenge, he wants to try out his power against the z-fighters. also the more powerful you become the faster u can build up ki. ssj3 goku for example would be able to gather ki faster than cell.
Goku can use phanthoms and solar flare which should make it hard for Darkseid and i don't see why Goku can't teleport to the other side of the earth and then back. The beam only follows the target (new52) so if there was anything in between then it would end there.
As far as i know, Darkseid doesn't use telepath in combat. in new 52 for example, he didn't use it on any leaguers at all and Goku is a telepath himself and i would like to believe that his ki shield can protect his mind, don't have any proof ofc cus no1 have ever tried to mind rape Goku so we never know.
Like i mentioned, Goku doesn't fight like superman, Remember that goku's lifting strength isn't as strong as his ki strikes. Goku is a high skilled martial artist and he use prediction and timing against his opponents + he can feel his foes every movement without seeing them so i think it's hard for Darkseid to tag him.+ ssj4 Goku can also use super dragon fist and i doubt Darkseid would be able to tank it.
btw, which version of Darkseid is that in ur scan? i only know of new52 and cartoon darkseid and i think ssj4 would be able to beat them. as for the other versions, Goku would probably lose from what i've heard from The_imperator
@ComicStooge: It didn't take long for Cell to gather the energy once he started charging. He actually spent more time talking than anything. And Cell hadn't previously done this because he got a massive power up just a couple of minutes before he started charging up his solar system blast. And if he had tried something like this before that power up, even if it was just a planet busting attack, SS2 Gohan was right there to stop him, and Gohan was manhandling him pretty badly.
This is the anime scene, and even that's not that drawn out that much. And it's difficult to tell how much of his charge time was necessary, and how much was just him taunting people.
@Theorder14: On the Telepathy thing, IIRC GDS is still canon to the nu52 Legion of Superheros, which means Darkseid has telepathy of a level that can enslave billions at once.
@Theorder14: On the Telepathy thing, IIRC GDS is still canon to the nu52 Legion of Superheros, which means Darkseid has telepathy of a level that can enslave billions at once.
ahh well, but he haven't ever used it in the middle of a fight right? if he could, i don't see why he couldn't use it on the leaguers and be done with it.
like i mentioned, Goku is a telepath himself so i believe he could resist it with his ki shield. meh no proof ofc so i duno.
those billions Darkseid mind-controlled, were they his own people? and how strong were they?
@Theorder14: They were all Daxamites (Kryptonian off shoots). Why would he need to use it in a fight? He was defeating the entire Justice League with strength alone, why waste time trying to get into someone's head?
@Theorder14: Just because Goku has minor telepathy doesn't mean he can block telepathy. It's speculation on your part thinking he can block it from DS. -_-.
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