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#1 Posted by Pope052 (3269 posts) - - Show Bio

Apologies if this has been done before, but I had searched the battle and could not find it.

But anyway,

Goku (Super Saiyan 4):

VS:

God of Destruction Bills:

Scenario:

After Bills had proven himself too strong for Goku as the Super Saiyan God. Goku waited years until he felt he had enough power to match or even defeat Bills. (Waited until he became SSJ4).

It took years, but eventually Goku had mastered Super Saiyan 4. He knew the time had now come to test his strength.

He contacted King Kai via telekinesis, he asked him to see if he could then contact Bills. Unknowingly, Bills had already been listening to their conversation, and abandoned his rest.

He showed up to Goku in less than a second.

(Bills - Bold)

"You claim to have gotten stronger, Son Goku".

"Yes, now if you'll allow me to power up, we can have proper battle this time, except this time I feel we're both evenly matched. I won't go down as easy, I promise".

"Very well, i'll let you reach your full power, and likewise myself".

Goku transformed all the way up to Super Saiyan 4, and it began..

Battlefield: Mordor (Destructible)

Rules:

  • Goku has the knowledge that he has of Bills after their fight, and vice versa.
  • No Prep.
  • No outside help.
  • Both start at 75% power, if either increase their power than the other's power increases to that level as well (Example: If Bills decides to power up to 80%, Goku's power automatically increase to 80% as well. In other words, neither can be a higher percentage of power than the other). And if they both go 100%, they cannot power down.
  • Morals On, In character.
  • Fight to the Death.

Some will say Goku, others will say Bills. I myself say Goku, and I have reasons. I'll post them later on, but for now, let the battle begin.

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#2 Edited by SheenLantern (6656 posts) - - Show Bio

Goku. Not because of the SSJ4. But because of the massive boost of power he got between BoG/EoZ and Beginning of GT.

#3 Posted by Jgames (1686 posts) - - Show Bio

Feat wise:Bill stomp

Power scaling wise:SSJ4 Goku

Op wise: If SSJ4 is stronger than ssj god then he should stomp

#4 Edited by SheenLantern (6656 posts) - - Show Bio

@jgames said:

Feat wise:Bill stomp

What feats? Stomping SSJ3 Goku, Gohan, Buu and Gotenks? You're saying SSJ4 Goku wouldn't be able to do this?

#5 Edited by Pope052 (3269 posts) - - Show Bio

@jgames said:

Feat wise:Bill stomp

What feats? Stomping SSJ3 Goku, Gohan, Buu and Gotenks? You're saying SSJ4 Goku wouldn't be able to do this?

Exactly.

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#6 Edited by Frocharocha (2301 posts) - - Show Bio

@jgames said:

Feat wise:Bill stomp

Power scaling wise:SSJ4 Goku

Op wise: If SSJ4 is stronger than ssj god then he should stomp

Nope. SSG is the energy of other 7 sayajins of pure hearth being transfereed into one. Translating, pick All other Sayajins at SS2 and transfer to Goku Super Sayjin 3. His power will be boosted to 15x times. Also, in the movie The other Sayajins stated that they could not feel Goku Ki. That's the power of a God in DBZ verse, they don't use Ki as main raw of power. Bills was still more powerful and still defeated SSG using 70% of it's power. Reminding that SS4 is not-canon, so we don't know how powerful it would be agaisn't regular DBZ characters.

Bills is also claimed to be more powerful than Super Vegitto, so it would take an extremely powerful form to beat him. And we know that Super Sayajin God is the pinnacle of Syajin power.

I'm still picking up Bills. He could just spam Supernovas or knock-out Goku using pressure point atacks.

#7 Posted by hulk_post_absolute_power (291 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm rooting for goku

#8 Posted by GhostRider2 (3308 posts) - - Show Bio

Bills, you need at least Ssj2 Vegito or Ssj3 Gogeta to beat him.Besides Goku got owned by a building.

#9 Edited by SheenLantern (6656 posts) - - Show Bio

Bills, you need at least Ssj2 Vegito or Ssj3 Gogeta to beat him

Reasoning?

#10 Posted by Jgames (1686 posts) - - Show Bio

@jgames said:

Feat wise:Bill stomp

What feats? Stomping SSJ3 Goku, Gohan, Buu and Gotenks? You're saying SSJ4 Goku wouldn't be able to do this?

Omega shenron seem to have trouble doing that, and what has SSJ 4 goku did? get cut by glass, knocked out by a blast that only managed to shake the planet. no real speed shown. Although I should really rephrase Bill stomp, since his feat are not that great either but better.

#11 Edited by GhostRider2 (3308 posts) - - Show Bio

@sheenlantern: Super Vegito>Goku ssj4 i don't care what you say but GT has no business with Z.GT is weak, people think GT goku vegeta are stronger because of training but when Goku gets owned by a building...so far, Janemba owned Goku, Gogeta stomped him, Buu owned Goku, Vegito stomped him.You can't beat a fusion(leave gotenks out).Goku got curious and wanted to beat Bills on his own so the fusion is out.

#12 Posted by SheenLantern (6656 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostrider2: I don't understand your logic at all. You're saying if a character is never shown losing, they're unbeatable?

Also..

Z Goku got owned by a rock.

Building > Rock

Therefore..

GT > Z

#13 Edited by GhostRider2 (3308 posts) - - Show Bio

@sheenlantern: thats pretty stupid, he is relaxing.You need to understand this, a fusion is always better than a single fighter.Vegito or Gogeta will just ascend 2 and 3 if ssj is not enough.

#14 Posted by Jgames (1686 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostrider2: To be fair Goku was never the lifting weight guy

#15 Edited by heroesgold (608 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, if we go by power levels, when Goku first transformed into ssj4 he was way stronger than ssj Vegito, and it should be stronger while mastered. Seeing as Bill is supposed to be the around the same (higher) power level as him, it seems SSJ4 is more powerful than Bills

#16 Edited by FlashGreaterSignEveryone (986 posts) - - Show Bio

@jgames said:

Feat wise:Bill stomp

Power scaling wise:SSJ4 Goku

Op wise: If SSJ4 is stronger than ssj god then he should stomp

wrong.. bills beat goku in ssj3 using 1% of his power . ssj4 was said to be 10x stronger than ssj3, therefore ssj4= bills at 10%

ssjGod fought bills at 70% therefore ssjgod=ssj3 x70 soo ssjGod > ssj4

#17 Posted by Cardle_grave (458 posts) - - Show Bio

LOL

Bills was fighting guys weaker than Gohan-Buu and couldn't even one-shot Vegtea

SSJ4 is leagues above Vegito

Baby saga SSJ4 Goku shit stomps bills into nothingness

And guys for the love of god, Dont base DBZ power scaling on feat. Its pretty stupid

#18 Edited by buttersdaman000 (9740 posts) - - Show Bio

Technically, SSJ4 Goku should still be weaker than SSJ Vegito. As the poster above me stated, SSJ4 is clearly stated to be 10 times stronger than SSJ3. Based on this, i've seen people reason that SSJ4 would still lose to or have trouble with Super Buu. Its kind of why, excluding those who rely only on abc logic, SSJ4 is not that impressive and by extension, DBGT as well. I've said it before, but the strongest characters in the original DB tale come from the Buu saga.

But, anyways, Bills destroys SSJ4 Goku.

#19 Posted by Cardle_grave (458 posts) - - Show Bio

@buttersdaman000: Like seriously, Did you even watch DBGT

In GT perfect files, Base gohan=Mystic gohan and Goku in base stomped SSJ gohan.

SSJ4 is 10x stronger than Super baby 2 and Super baby 1 is stronger than Vegito

#20 Edited by NighThunder (4028 posts) - - Show Bio

Base gt goku is 5x dtronger than ssj3 Z goku , ssj4 is 4000x base , do the math.

#21 Posted by GhostRider2 (3308 posts) - - Show Bio

@cardle_grave: GT is shit.It has nothing to do with Z, and Goku is so strong he lost to a building.

#22 Posted by NighThunder (4028 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostrider2: when did a full power , full health ssj4 goku in gt get K.Oed by a building in gt?

#23 Edited by ULTRAstarkiller (6186 posts) - - Show Bio

Bills.

#24 Posted by GhostRider2 (3308 posts) - - Show Bio

@nighthunder: he didn't lift it or something, not a GT fan.

#25 Posted by heroesgold (608 posts) - - Show Bio

@cardle_grave: GT is shit.It has nothing to do with Z, and Goku is so strong he lost to a building.

When was that? When he was fixing the whole city together?

#26 Posted by GhostRider2 (3308 posts) - - Show Bio

@heroesgold: not sure havent watched GT in years, but my memory is good.

#27 Posted by buttersdaman000 (9740 posts) - - Show Bio

@buttersdaman000: Like seriously, Did you even watch DBGT

In GT perfect files, Base gohan=Mystic gohan and Goku in base stomped SSJ gohan.

SSJ4 is 10x stronger than Super baby 2 and Super baby 1 is stronger than Vegito

Yeah you're basing Gohans overall power on how he was in GT? Lol that whole series was literally just fan service for Goku. Every single character, including Vegeta, was dragged through the dirt. The fact of the matter is that at the end of the day, SSJ4 is 10 times stronger than SSJ3, and frankly, at least in regards to DBZ, shouldn't be that impressive.

#28 Edited by Wolfrazer (6782 posts) - - Show Bio

Why is this even being debated? SSJ4 isn't even canon, also why wouldn't the SSJG form be the strongest out of them all anyway? He's fighting against a god after all.

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#29 Posted by Frocharocha (2301 posts) - - Show Bio

Why is this even being debated? SSJ4 isn't even canon, also why wouldn't the SSJG form be the strongest out of them all anyway? He's fighting against a god after all.

That's the problem. Only by default SS4 should lose. The Sayajins are a clearly inspired by DC kryptonians. We can see sayajins being cut by glass on GT while on Z they can barely notice explosions and can with no effort deflect bullets (Bills recives a bullet on the head in the movie and get's angry).

-Booth Superman and Goku have their home planets destroyed.

-Booth vegeta are prince/high rank in their societ yand survived the destruction of Vegeta/Krypton.

--Booth Goku and Superman are raised by human parents and are powerful and funny.

-They live getting their ass beaten by insane powerful planet-buster like characters.

Bills stomps assuming that DBZ is a rip off of Superman verse.

#30 Posted by Marshall_Long (2051 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostrider2: I don't understand your logic at all. You're saying if a character is never shown losing, they're unbeatable?

Also..

Z Goku got owned by a rock.

Building > Rock

Therefore..

GT > Z

Lol C'mon that was filler.

#31 Edited by Pope052 (3269 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostrider2:

Provide evidence that SSJ2 Vegito/SSJ3 Gogeta is satisfactory to beat him, because they don't exist. Stop using the building showing to degrade SSJ4 Goku. GT may be inconsistent and have very low-showings of SSJ4. But at the end of the day, SSJ4 is still ten times stronger than SSJ3 Goku, regardless of SSJ3 Goku having the better feats.

Also, SSJ4 Goku would decimate SSJ Vegito, I can and will debate you on this. You're bent on the thought that fusion is stronger than everything. Newsflash, it isn't.

SSJ4 Goku > Every Z Character, want to debate it? By all means, i'm more than willing.

@flashgreatersigneveryone

wrong.. bills beat goku in ssj3 using 1% of his power . ssj4 was said to be 10x stronger than ssj3, therefore ssj4= bills at 10%

ssjGod fought bills at 70% therefore ssjgod=ssj3 x70 soo ssjGod > ssj4

Bills only defeated Z SSJ3 Goku. And you're being highly ignorant to say what i've underlined there. As @sheenlantern had stated above, Goku had still received massive power increases at the EOZ, BOGT, and BOTG.

@buttersdaman000

Technically, SSJ4 Goku should still be weaker than SSJ Vegito. As the poster above me stated, SSJ4 is clearly stated to be 10 times stronger than SSJ3. Based on this, i've seen people reason that SSJ4 would still lose to or have trouble with Super Buu. Its kind of why, excluding those who rely only on abc logic, SSJ4 is not that impressive and by extension, DBGT as well. I've said it before, but the strongest characters in the original DB tale come from the Buu saga.

As the same guy I replied to above, you've left out all of the power increases that Goku had receieved throughout Z, GT, and BOTG.

But, anyways, Bills destroys SSJ4 Goku.

He really doesn't, at best he'd stalemate. SSJ4 Goku should win at least 9.5/10 times. (The 0.5 being Bills' stalemate)

Bills' feats are stomping Z SSJ3 Goku, Gohan, Vegeta, Majin Buu, Piccolo, and Gotenks. All of which SSJ4 Goku is highly capable of doing himself. Also, noticed how I had put Z in bold? GT takes place years after Z, Goku had received power increases over those years as i've stated above.

Bills didn't stomp GT SSJ3 Goku, only Z. I'm not saying he'd lose against GT SSJ3 Goku, but he certainly wouldn't have stomped him like he had with Z SSJ3 Goku.

@ghostrider2

he didn't lift it or something, not a GT fan.

Physical Strength was never a decisive factor in any of the Dragon-Ball fights, and it doesn't factor into a fight at all. You act as if Vegito has tremendous lifting strength feats, yet he has absolutely none.

Also, just because you aren't a fan of GT doesn't mean that the characters lose every battle. I'm not a big GT fan either, but that doesn't mean I can go around saying "GT sucks, Frieza would beat Omega Shenron". The logic makes zero sense.

@wolfrazer

Broly isn't canon, yet he is still debated. So what if something isn't canon?

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#32 Edited by Pope052 (3269 posts) - - Show Bio

@marshall_long:

You do realize he was being sarcastic?

@frocharocha

This is a battle, not how much you think Goku is a Superman rip-off. Take your opinion on that elsewhere.

Also, what are you trying to mean by Bills getting angry after being shot? It didn't affect him one bit. If someone hit me and it didn't hurt, i'd still get angry and hit back.

Both your logic and style of debating are appalling.

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#33 Posted by GhostRider2 (3308 posts) - - Show Bio

@pope052: i wouldn't say frieza beats omega but goku isn't >Z either.

#34 Edited by Pope052 (3269 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostrider2:

i wouldn't say frieza beats omega

That was nothing more than an example of your logic, it makes no sense.

but goku isn't >Z either.

SSJ4 Goku, is > Z. Debate otherwise.

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#35 Posted by Marshall_Long (2051 posts) - - Show Bio

@pope052: Yeah I kinda figured it was after I posted the reply.

#36 Posted by dondave (37629 posts) - - Show Bio

Bills

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#37 Edited by GhostRider2 (3308 posts) - - Show Bio

@pope052: what logic?Vegito being a god?A fusion being superior to a single fighter?And yes a fusion is stronger than everything, look at Buu, look at Janemba, look at Shenron.

#38 Posted by buttersdaman000 (9740 posts) - - Show Bio

@pope052:

What? The assumed unquantifiable power increases? We don't know how much stronger Goku became after his fight with Kid Buu through to the beginning of GT. In fact, I believe it was even mentioned that Vegeta finally surpassed him in BoTG. What we do know is that SSJ3 Goku was fodder compared to Super Buu. What we do know is that Super Buu was fodder compared to Mystic Gohan. What we do know is Mystic Gohan was fodder compared to Buutenks. And what we do know is that Buuhan was trash fodder compared to SSJ Vegito. Now can you tell me just where Goku would fit into this in GT without guesses and assumptions?

SSJ4 is the most overrated form in all of DBZ verse, second only to LSSJ. He gets stomped here, and just for some emphasis, so would SSJ4 Gogeta.

#39 Edited by Pope052 (3269 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostrider2:

Those fusions just happened to be stronger than those characters, that doesn't mean that Fusions > Everything. Your logic has no logic in it at all.

SSJ4 Goku > SSJ Gogeta, SSJ Vegito, SSJ3 Gotenks all at once. I want you to provide good reasons for Vegito being stronger, and saying that he effortlessly stomped Buuhan isn't a good reason, as SSJ4 Goku would do so handily.

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#40 Posted by Jgames (1686 posts) - - Show Bio

@flashgreatersigneveryone: Appearently Goku base is as stronght as ssj3 in dbz and hold his own against rildo who was more powerful than kid buu so technally he should be stronger than ssj god power scaling wise, if u don't include that then yes ssjgod is stronger.

#41 Posted by GhostRider2 (3308 posts) - - Show Bio

@pope052: why not?What if Goku and Vegeta fused during the fight with Bills.A fusion would be always stronger, prove me wrong.

#42 Posted by SheenLantern (6656 posts) - - Show Bio

@pope052: why not?What if Goku and Vegeta fused during the fight with Bills.A fusion would be always stronger, prove me wrong.

Prove yourself right, first.

#43 Edited by Pope052 (3269 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostrider2:

Since you've made the claim, you'd need to prove it. Otherwise then you've just committed the burden of proof fallacy.

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#44 Posted by GhostRider2 (3308 posts) - - Show Bio

@sheenlantern: i did. Janemba>Goku Gogeta>>>Janemba Buu>Goku Vegito>>>Buu Shenron>Goku Gogeta>>>Shenron.Your turn.

#45 Edited by Pope052 (3269 posts) - - Show Bio

@buttersdaman000:

I'll get back to you on that one when i'm on tomorrow, i'd go into detail now but i'm really not able to at the moment.

I'll reply to your post when i'm ready.

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#46 Posted by buttersdaman000 (9740 posts) - - Show Bio

@pope052: @sheenlantern: How about the fact that every fusion happens to be the strongest character in the series? SSJ Vegito was the strongest character in Z, and SSJ4 Gogeta was the strongest character in GT. It's even been stated multiple times that fusions create the ultimate warriors....

#47 Posted by buttersdaman000 (9740 posts) - - Show Bio
#48 Posted by GhostRider2 (3308 posts) - - Show Bio
#49 Posted by SheenLantern (6656 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostrider2: I'm confused, how does that prove Gogeta/Vegetto would beat Bills?

#50 Posted by Pope052 (3269 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostrider2:

That's not proving anything, that's using A>B<C logic.

Those fusions are just stronger than Buu, Janemba and Omega Shenron. That doesn't mean they're stronger than every character.

Assistance would be a good help here, as some people just need to realize certain aspects of Dragon Ball.

@limpoyzloan @nighthunder @thedarklordpandamonium

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