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#101 Posted by Stupid_People (1248 posts) - - Show Bio

@reikai said:

@stupid_people: @cardle_grave: Feats Wise, Brolly is the most powerful next to the Gods of Destruction. Daizenshuu confirms that Cell is a solar-system buster. SSJ2 Teen Gohan was = Super Perfect Cell. A solar system is a mere fraction of a galaxy. His destructive capacity is massively greater than the rest of the DBU until the Destruction Gods were introduced.

Goku SSJ 1-4 doesn't come anything close to the destructive level Brolly has represented. You can't place it in "which transformation fits better" because none of them do, and they are all dependent on what they can achieve in their base levels. It had been basically said in Buu Saga that Goku as a SS2 was a bit stronger than Gohan had been against Cell. So Goku is SSB+ (Solar System Busting) as a SS2. SS3 is 4x that, so MSSB (Multi). Which still isn't anything close to Galaxy Busting.

Here's the whole problem i have with the whole destruction feat argument. When has goku ever destroyed a planet in his own power? But he has beaten Frieza correct? THE confirmed planetbuster right? Well by your logic since goku has NEVER destroyed a planet, solar system, galaxy, etc he cant! Now what the f*ck kind of sense does that make? Without saying plot or PIS there is no reason that goku with powers from the others beat broly (which means enough power to damage him significantly). Now unless you believe that those 5 fighters power is greater than goku at any time in the series what are your reserves on believing anyone can be Broly's equal or superior?

#102 Posted by FANNYBUSTER (129 posts) - - Show Bio

@reikai said:

@stupid_people: @cardle_grave: @fannybuster: Let me also say that the "Grades" are pointless in determining who is stronger. If you tried going that route, then technically Cooler's Ultimate Form is a "Higher Grade" than everything that's not SS4 or SSG.

SS3 is 400x Base. If you took Ult Cooler's PL and worked backwards, you'd know it's a bit over 903x his Base Level. That's more than two SS3's. And yet Ult Cooler was beaten by a SSJ Goku. Not because he had a better "Grade", but because Goku's base level was a lot higher than Cooler's, so he got more out of his transformation.

And that's why using "Graded Transformations" is rather meaningless next to the actual evidence represented.

Its not Grades, but its Super Saiyan Multipliers.

  • SSJ 50x Base
  • SSJ Grade 2 75x Base
  • SSJ Grade 3 90x Base
  • SSJ2 100x Base
  • SSJ3 400x Base
#103 Edited by Cardle_grave (458 posts) - - Show Bio

@xlab3000: Who says i was making stuff up, Rewatch the movie if you think i am lying

King kai said a Super saiyan destroyed the galaxy and got a reading on his power saying to goku that he may be actually stronger than you guys, I cant find the picture

Here is goku confirming it

RSSJ Broly destroyed the galaxy, Not his younger self. Thus he didnt do it over time

His is Movie 10 Gohan, Not Manga Gohan. So there different and Kid Buu is a example, Both Broly and Kid Buu fought SSJ2 guys, Broly beat gohan in 3 hits, kid Buu in 12 thus broly would be just as strong as kid buu. Also Fat Buu hit SSJ gohan not SSJ2, Gohan said himself that he wasn't at full power

#104 Edited by SuperDrummer (721 posts) - - Show Bio

@fannybuster: feats wise, broly is the strongest since he shown the most impressive Flying and destruction feats, by logic a galaxy is 100000 light years wide, And broly was in the centre when he destroyed it and went to the north galaxy, Which would make him more than 2 Trillion X FTL

But power scaling wise, he is only the 3rd strongest DBZ villain and get outclassed so bad, Even Goku defeated him in hell. Actually i think even janemba has better feats, His existence itself was wrecking reality and goku said he can destroy the whole universe

Yes, he does have A rather impressive feat that beats all the others in DBZ. However, I must ask... when did we start basing strength on a single feat?

Actually, power scaling, hes about Cell strength, and is certainly in no way the third strongest enemy if you include movies. If I recall, the Broly vs SSj Gohan fight wasn't very long at all, and he was than afterwards beaten by SSj Goten and a VERY out of practice Gohan. Cell > Dabura, Dabura = Gohan, Gohan < Broly, Broly = Cell.

#105 Posted by Cardle_grave (458 posts) - - Show Bio

@superdrummer: No, he shits on Cell so bad, Even in the first movie. he was stated by the guy who made him to be the strongest saiyan until movie 10. And Broly thought SSj2 Gohan and beat him in 3 hits, Not SSJ. Also Gohan was stronger in M10 and also in the daizenshuu, Its states gohan lost no power at all

but Broly is non-canon, So his feats don't relate to the manga levels but anime has some insane feats

#106 Posted by reikai (4095 posts) - - Show Bio

@stupid_people: It was A Plot Device. Plot Devices don't abide logic or reason. They work because the Writers said so. That's all there is to it. If the Plot stated Goku beats Brolly by sticking a fork in his nose and flicking him into a giant stack of pancakes, then it wouldn't matter if it would never actually work since a Plot Device defies all logic and reason.

It's also why they called it Goku's "Miracle Punch".

1. an effect or extraordinary event in the physical world that surpasses all known human or natural powers and is ascribed to a supernatural cause.

2. such an effect or event manifesting or considered as a work of God.

Basically, the Gods/Writers made it work, despite it not being otherwise capable of such.

As for the argument of feats. Again, the thing is, Brolly exists outside of the Main Canon and is not affected by nor restricted to the same rules as the rest of the DBU. What he does in Movie 8/10 can't be attributed to the rest of the DBU because it exists outside of their rules and continuity. How strong a character is or supposed to be is determined by the story, and in the Main Canon story, galaxy-busting force don't appear until Birus.

#107 Posted by Cardle_grave (458 posts) - - Show Bio

Plot devices are the most powerful weapon in any universe, Where the creator himself gets involve and that is what happen to broly. Regardless how powerful this guy was, MFTL, Galaxy buster, Immense strength that can crush Machine that can handle FTL with a Planet level durability guy into and throw him at Light speed. its show that a plot can make him look like shit. 1 punch and it was all over

Anime characters Feats >>>> Manga character feats

#108 Edited by SuperDrummer (721 posts) - - Show Bio

@superdrummer: No, he shits on Cell so bad, Even in the first movie. he was stated by the guy who made him to be the strongest saiyan until movie 10. And Broly thought SSj2 Gohan and beat him in 3 hits, Not SSJ. Also Gohan was stronger in M10 and also in the daizenshuu, Its states gohan lost no power at all

but Broly is non-canon, So his feats don't relate to the manga levels but anime has some insane feats

The daizenshuu... It is about the most inconsistent thing about DBZ. Trusting that is like trusting the Ninja handbooks in Naruto, suddenly Haku is light speed. Or a movie character over hyped by his audience is put FAR above where he should be by his fans.

Its really interesting how something outrageous is said about a character and everyone uses logic to decide wither it is a valid statement, wheres it is simply taken as fact if said about a DBZ character.

#109 Posted by Stupid_People (1248 posts) - - Show Bio

@reikai: @cardle_grave: Why necessarily tho? I mean honestly all that has been shown through his track record is his outclassing Cell Games saga characters to the point of humiliation and having a sufficient gap of power to best gohan handily. The Galaxy feat is basically the single bullet in your Colt (supernatural reference). Did Buuhan destroy anything signifigant? no. But there is not a single doubt in my mind he could wipe the floor with Broly due to how he could humiliate SO much more impressive foes even easier than Broly ever did. But because he didnt decide to leave earth and any fun he could have in a possible challenge in the universe and be like "hey, lets go destroy these galaxies for no reason other than just because."

#110 Edited by Cardle_grave (458 posts) - - Show Bio

@superdrummer: Daizenshuu doesn't explain feats though, its just there to explain their levels or Timelines. Naruto is different, I don't really care for naruto much nor know much about it. But i don't believe there lightspeed, Well maybe combat speed but really i don't know, naruto doesn't really show much

Broly was a Overpowered character, Even the guy who made him admitted himself that he was obsessed with broly, Broly is non-canon anyways. In non-canon Janemba is universal and so it gohan-Buu by crushing dimensions. Toei kept making DBZ show feats, Like King vegeta waving his hand and destroy Large planet + 2 Small planets like nothing and he is only a power level of 10 000

@stupid_people: Broly would get murdered in a single hit from Gohan-buu, Its no contest. Regardless on how many galaxies, Universes or multiverses broly can destroy in m8, Power scaling shows he is nothing to the top tiers. And power scaling is how DBZ truly works

#111 Posted by SuperDrummer (721 posts) - - Show Bio

@superdrummer: Daizenshuu doesn't explain feats though, its just there to explain their levels or Timelines. Naruto is different, I don't really care for naruto much nor know much about it. But i don't believe there lightspeed, Well maybe combat speed but really i don't know, naruto doesn't really show much

Broly was a Overpowered character, Even the guy who made him admitted himself that he was obsessed with broly, Broly is non-canon anyways. In non-canon Janemba is universal and so it gohan-Buu by crushing dimensions. Toei kept making DBZ show feats, Like King vegeta waving his hand and destroy Large planet + 2 Small planets like nothing and he is only a power level of 10 000

Broly isn't overpowered, only over-hyped. The fact that the creator likes him doesn't really mean all that much if he looses to SS1 characters who are at their cell games levels. Ultimately, that is how strong he is. There is no PIS if his ONLY showings are loosing to characters at that level.

#112 Edited by xlab3000 (3130 posts) - - Show Bio

@cardle_grave: I didn't say his younger self destroyed the galaxy. I said his younger self destroyed parts of the galaxy. Yeah Goku confirmed he destroyed the galaxy but he was looking for Broly in the south galaxy that makes no sense. Not to mention you can still see a big planet and a few stars(11 stars) right behind Goku's head.

#113 Edited by Cardle_grave (458 posts) - - Show Bio

@superdrummer: You think that is your normal SSj, Broly is stronger than SSJ2 in M8. his feats prove so. Tanking Kamehameha, Big Bang attack, 2 Maseko. One-shot vegeta to base is something that Cell couldnt do

Cell had the brace himself for Vegeta attack, While broly stood in front of Goku attack Kamehameha and laughed at it, Not to mention he oneshot vegeta to base, Where SPC one-shot vegeta but he was still SSJ

THe guy who made him said broly was the strongest character, That is why he made him appear in 3 movies. He couldn't find anyone stronger than broly. That is how Strong broly is, he is not your average DBZ character that comes along

@xlab3000: King kai would sense his younger self but he didnt

Broly destroying the galaxy was a set up for Vegeta, For Vegeta to go waste his time trying to find the LSSJ, So all the planets are pretty much a set up for vegeta to sense him and waste his time

Regardless, A few Hundred or Thousands or Millions stars and planets left over is nothing to hundreds of Billions, its like a ant to a house. It would still classify him as a galaxy buster

King kai reaction proves Broly done it in front of him, As he says "The galaxy is really being" "At this rate even my northern galaxy would be destroyed" So its quite obvious that broly was doing in front of him based on his reaction, And quickly put broly a galaxy level threat by saying he would even destroy his WHOLE NORTHERN GALAXY. And he quickly called Goku to stop this

It doesnt make sense for him to finally react after the galaxy is completely destroyed after watching it for years.

He either one-shot it or destroyed it in a few hours since king kai said he was already finished with the south before talking to goku. Regardless it was done in his weakest, He has LSSJ, And M10 LSSJ

#114 Posted by SuperDrummer (721 posts) - - Show Bio

@superdrummer: You think that is your normal SSj, Broly is stronger than SSJ2 in M8. his feats prove so. Tanking Kamehameha, Big Bang attack, 2 Maseko. One-shot vegeta to base is something that Cell couldnt do

Cell had the brace himself for Vegeta attack, While broly stood in front of Goku attack Kamehameha and laughed at it, Not to mention he oneshot vegeta to base, Where SPC one-shot vegeta but he was still SSJ

THe guy who made him said broly was the strongest character, That is why he made him appear in 3 movies. He couldn't find anyone stronger than broly. That is how Strong broly is, he is not your average DBZ character that comes along

I never said he was a normal super-saiyan, only that hes lost to normal super saiyans.

And Cell was blind-sided by Vegeta while in a duel with Gohan and was barely distracted enough to be overcome by SS2 Gohan unleashing his full potential. Broly was beat by a weaker Gohan in SS1 (admittedly with the help of a seven year old who has no feats at all whatsoever) when he had no distractions. Assuming some plot, I think its fair to put Cell = Broly.

#115 Edited by Cardle_grave (458 posts) - - Show Bio

@superdrummer: Look at Post 73, its explains everything

Gohan was SSJ2, it even shows gohan saying he become stronger since last time. Cell saw vegeta coming at him, He wasn't destracted

#116 Edited by SuperDrummer (721 posts) - - Show Bio

@superdrummer: Look at Post 73, its explains everything

Gohan was SSJ2, it even shows gohan saying he become stronger since last time. Cell saw vegeta coming at him, He wasn't destracted

What is artwork supposed to explain? Just look at the COLOR of the hair over the course of the series, what makes you think the spike angle/consistency is evidence to anything?

And Cell looks pretty distracted to me...

#117 Edited by xlab3000 (3130 posts) - - Show Bio

@cardle_grave: Broly destroyed the south galaxy overtime so M8 Broly is a large star buster or solar system buster. In M10 he should be multi-solar system level at best. I admit Gohan was a ssj2. I also admit Broly got a zenkai. With my qoute below, SSJ2 Goku wins.

Really Fat Buu never came close to that. Here's the vid. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmvVRhUCLCY Fat Buu punched Gohan once and Gohan was barely getting up while Gohan was still fighting Broly after the 1st punch(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X913eWgbSOk). Fat Buu wasn't even at full power either. Fat Buu did better than Broly did. Not to mention Majin Vegeta dominated Buu(while Buu held back) and he was stalemating with SSJ2 Goku. Fat Buu had to charge up a little to beat Majin Vegeta too. SSJ2 Goku beats Broly.

#118 Edited by Cardle_grave (458 posts) - - Show Bio

@superdrummer: I am not talking about that scene of cell, I am talking about when vegeta is charging at cell

@xlab3000: Completely illogical if he was only that, For you destroy a galaxy in a few hours. You needs to be at Small Galaxy level, Which would range from Billion to 10s of Billions of Star/Solar systems/Star systems for you to get the job done. Broly either one-shot or Done it in a few hours. But never the less in the end he is still a galaxy buster since he done it at his weakest SSJ power. Espically if king kai said at the rate he is going, Even my galaxy would be destroyed. He wouldnt consider him a galaxy level threat if he is doing it 1 by 1, its completely illogical. Espically if the whole galaxy went and then he reacted. Also both Paragus and Piccolo said, that if broly wasnt Stopped. The whole universe would be destroyed. Calculating his life span and how much he has to destroy. Galaxy level makes sense

Fat Buu fought SSJ Gohan, Not SSJ2. Even gohan stats this. Broly vs SSj2 Gohan, Who base > SSj kids. 2 different gohan with 2 different levels. Gohan in m10 is easily > SSj2 Goku since his base >SSJ Kids. Look at Fat Buu vs Majin Vegeta and how long it took Fat Buu to beat him

#119 Edited by xlab3000 (3130 posts) - - Show Bio

@cardle_grave: From the looks of the hair Gohan was a ssj2. I disagree on the Majin Vegeta part. Majin Buu powered up during the fight. He was toying around with Majin Vegeta. He wasn't at full power either. Go to 8:19 and go to 12:25

#120 Edited by Cardle_grave (458 posts) - - Show Bio

@xlab3000: I know when majin Buu went at full power, But his best attack didn't take out majin Vegeta, 3 attacks knocked gohan out. Regardless There is no way GOku or any SSJ2 is coming close to broly

#121 Edited by xlab3000 (3130 posts) - - Show Bio

@cardle_grave: Majin Vegeta is stronger than SSJ2 Gohan. What do you mean by best attack? Majin Buu never fired his strongest(or best) attack against Majin Vegeta. Again Majin Buu toyed with him. ssj2 Goku>=lssj Broly.

#122 Posted by Pope052 (2982 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_last_kryptonian: @cardle_grave: @fannybuster: @reikai:

All of you Broly fan-boys actually listen up this time:

Since you are inclined to believe nonsense, and go by a debunked & dub-error as a feat, AND some of you even believe that Broly > Bills, that just doesn't make even the slightest notion of sense.

I have already linked the thread debunking everything Broly is wanked with, but you clearly haven't looked at it, so at this rate i'm just going to list what is said on that thread here:

Broly - Confronting & Discrediting the Lies:

Before I get into this I just want to set the record straight for Broly fans that have consistently elevated Broly to statuses he’s never deserved. They’ve blamed his defeats on bullshit writing, they’ve used dub lines for evidence instead of facts, they’ve compared him to SSJ3 level, outright forged statements/lied about statements of Toriyama, stated Broly stronger than SSJ4 Gogeta, and so on.

They’ve essentially established an annoying and repulsive cult of personality around this uninteresting and unimpressive character from obscure non-canon DBZ films. Time to nip it in the bud, but before I invalidate their repetitious fanfiction, let’s look at the score card:

Who was Broly able to beat?

  • Movie 8: Four SSJ (Goku, Vegeta, Trunks, and Gohan) and a Namek (Piccolo).
  • Movie 10: A weak MSSJ that hadn’t trained for 7 years (Gohan, and barely), two SSJ kids (Trunks and Goten), Krillin, and a human girl (Videl).
  • Movie 11: Android 18...

Who was Broly unable to beat?

  • Movie 8: A SSJ (Goku) with the energy of three half dead Saiyans and a half dead Namek.
  • Movie 10: SSJ Goku (if he was even actually there) and Gohan (weak after not training for 7 years and exhausted from fighting Broly), and a SSJ child (Goten).
  • Movie 11A: Two SSJ children (Trunks and Goten) and Krillin.
  • Movie 11B: Pikkon and SSJ/MSSJ Goku.

Broly’s never beaten anyone even on par with MSSJ Gohan from the Cell Games. He’s beaten on weak SSJ-level characters and been beaten by them. He’s never beaten anyone SSJ2 level, let alone SSJ3 or SSJ4. He couldn’t beat any fusion character either.

Now then, because Broly is non-canon, we can’t refer to the manga/comic to dispel Broly myths. What we can use is the original Japanese films as they would be the source material. Other cases don’t require checking dub lines for accuracy because only analyzing movements/actions is necessary. With that said, let’s dispel some non-facts.

Myth #1- Movie 8 takes place during the wait before the Cell Games:

Facts:

False. This is never stated. This comes from both an attempt to fit the film into the canon timeline and a rumor that the original Japanese dub states that it took place during the 10 day waiting period. It’s not true, you can watch the original film with subs on and see for yourself. It doesn’t fit into the timeline at all and Broly fans spread this line to make Broly comparable to Perfect Cell. Well they can’t. Stop listening to what the Dragonball wiki says; it’s garbage.

Everything in the film points towards the Z-fighters as mid-ROSAT and not post; nobody is MSSJ, USSJ, or whatever. Goku and Gohan wouldn’t be in base form and Vegeta’s and Trunk’s muscles would be humongous. Gohan has the weakest showing in the film, which should tell you something.

Myth #2: Broly can destroy a galaxy / Broly is a galaxy buster:

Facts:

No he can’t. That’s a terrible dub line that has since spawned countless kids with computers and YouTube access to spam the internet with Broly wank.

In the opening sequence:

  • We see the galaxy shown start to slowly darken bit by bit, not instantly disappear. It fragments, it’s not one-shotted. This is to demonstrate what will be brought up next (that the galaxy is under attack). Calling the blackening slow isn’t completely accurate, it does actually happen quickly to the viewer. This is because it’s an introduction to the enemy of the film and their threat. It’s established in flashbacks that Broly’s been attacking places since he was a child, making the length of the destruction in the decades range. The galaxy wasn’t destroyed by one attack; it was sped up for the viewer because we’re not going to watch a galaxy get torn up and wait ten years just to get to main story.

  • The line used in the opening sequence in the English dub states that the galaxy has been shattered by a Super Saiyan. The original Japanese states that the galaxy is under attack. Under attack, not shattered. It’s in the process of being destroyed, it’s not one-shotted.

  • In the dub King Kai says the South Galaxy is all gone. In the original Japanese he says the Galaxy “is being..." In other words it’s BEING attacked; it wasn’t hit with a galaxy-buster. If Broly destroyed the galaxy King Kai would have said “has been..." instead of “is being...". The fact that it’s present and not past tense proves the galaxy is still there.

  • Goku uses instant transmission to move through the galaxy. The fact that he’s moving around the galaxy is proof enough that Broly didn’t destroy it. We can see all the planets still around. The film takes place in the South Galaxy and the fights occur in the South Galaxy.

  • It’s just stupid. Broly never even used LSSJ until he fought the Z-fighters. That means you’d have to believe that he “busted” the galaxy as either a base Saiyan or SSJ. If you believe that, I have no words. Goku made Broly bleed twice before he went LSSJ. So unless you think Goku can bust a galaxy...

So yeah, he never busted a galaxy. That’s a series of bad dub lines. The original Japanese is fairly clear on what’s going on, and it’s sad to think that if Funimation had been just a little more faithful to the original content there wouldn’t be so much Broly diarrhea out there. The most Broly’s been seen to do is bust a planet. If Broly could bust a galaxy he would have done so instead of struggling to kill a worn down SSJ Goku with continuous punching.

Myth #3: Broly’s strength always rises / Broly will continue getting more powerful the longer he’s transformed:

Facts:

One of the most annoying lines to hear in a debate. Broly’s power doesn’t rise forever. That’s stupid, it’s NEVER stated, and there’s no reason to take a single obscure line from the film and draw wild conclusions from that. Here’s what was said:

“My ki is rising... It’s overflowing!" Now where is it said his power always rises, or never stops rising? If Cell or anyone else in Dragon Ball said that, would you assume it was perpetual? No, you’d just accept that their power was rising. This just goes to show the lack of critical thinking involved in wanking Broly. Did this EVER occur to Broly wankers?

Seriously. Guess what happens as soon as Broly says that line- he flies up into the sky and fires off energy balls throughout the area. He was *releasing* energy while in apparent agony. Why would he do that? Probably because, you know, he was OVERFLOWING with energy. He has a limit to ki he can hold and when that limit’s reached he has to expel his excess energy. So Broly isn’t becoming SSJ4 level just by standing around and waiting for ki to build up; that’s not how it works and never has been.

Once again, I implore people to reevaluate that quote and take it with a grain of salt. Even if I’m wrong about his power level/strength not always rising, by how much does he grow in power and how quickly? The line is used once, only in the first movie, and never brought up again. Just think about. His ki grew too much for his body to handle and he had to expel it, then end. It never said he’d rival SSJ16 as long as he stayed transformed.

I mean come on. Every thread with Broly in the title eventually has some kid come in and say wild crap like “Well Broly could probably win as long as he stays transformed which would put him over Kid Buu at least and eventually could beat anyone from DBAF." Like, no, just no. Stop it. Broly’s won’t get stronger in the middle of a fight, stop bringing it up like it’s a feasible option.

Myth #4: Broly can blow a planet up with a basketball-sized attack, a huge feat:

Facts:

While Broly can bust a planet with ease, using small attacks, it’s not a huge feat. The attack Frieza used to blow up Namek wasn’t big at all and he created it fairly quickly. This isn’t that bad of an example of wank as it does show Broly can charge attacks quickly, however so can everyone else so it’s nothing special and should stop being used as a DBZ feat.

Myth #5: Perfect Cell lost his torso to Goku’s Kamehameha and Broly didn’t, so Cell < Broly:

Facts:

Ah yes, the Cell argument. Where to start...

  • The Goku that Perfect Cell fought was stronger than the Goku from movie 8 if you bother to try fitting this non-canon film into the canon timeline. Everyone is weaker than they should be. If anything, as stated earlier, it’s likely during Goku and Gohan’s ROSAT training and not after/during the Cell Games. Trunks and Vegeta have abandoned their ascended form and Trunks' hair is long, yet Gohan is a relatively weak SSJ and not a MSSJ. Goku was the strongest fighter and Gohan hadn’t surpassed him, so it’s not close to Cell Games levels at all.
  • Mid-ROSAT is the best place to put them. And regardless, it doesn’t matter because- The Cell that Goku fought was highly suppressed and not even close to full power. I’d place Cell at a third of his full power when fighting 100% Goku, but that’s just me. Really it doesn’t matter because it’s purely speculation, but what isn’t speculation is that Cell never showed his true power until fighting SSJ2 Gohan.
  • Goku caught Cell by surprise when he used his instant transmission to get up in Cell’s shit. Broly walked right up to Goku waiting to get hit. And even if you want to argue that being surprised wouldn’t make you less resistant to an attack, then refer back to points 1 and 2.
  • Broly tanking a weak SSJ Goku’s Kamehameha means shit.

Myth #6: Goku absorbed the power of three SSJ and a Super Namek, making him SSJ5 level:

Facts:

No. Just no. People that love Broly but hate thinking will use the 1+1 logic to elevate Broly to high-end status because they think it makes Broly so much of a threat that he got beat by a non-existant SSJ4/5/6/1234 tier Goku.

Trunks, Gohan, and Vegeta were terribly battle-worn and near death when they gave Goku their energy. So four SSJs didn’t combine their powers with a Super Namekian. Call it bad writing if you want, but Broly got beaten by SSJ Goku with the leftover power of three collapsed base Saiyans and Piccolo.

Deal with it and stop making up crap. You can't blame it on bad writing and then go saying Broly > SSJ4 Gogeta. He couldn't handle a punch from Goku powered up by four other weak, battle-worn, Ki-Drained, and half-dead Saiyans, and a Namekian. Again, call it bad writing, but it happened and therefore you can't boost Broly above that level.

Myth #7:

Broly lost in movie 8 because Goku hit his weak spot / Broly’s stab wound was opened:

Facts:

False, I actually made a video about this a while ago:

Goku didn’t open some stab wound. They probably didn’t even remember the attempted infanticide when planning Broly’s defeat in the movie. Goku hit Broly in a completely different area on his body. And if you look at Broly in movie 10 he’s got a bigass scar over his body from the hole Goku punched into him; if Broly had a wound from the attempt to kill him as a child he sure as hell seemed to have healed by the time of movie 8.

This point was completely made up by fans and is another attempt to write off Broly’s defeat. Sorry, he didn’t lose because of PIS; he lost because Goku was stronger.

Myth #8: Broly got stronger in movie 10 / Broly got a Zenkai:

Facts:

No evidence points to Broly getting stronger between films. Nor could Broly have gotten a zenkai as he was frozen for seven years. He was still scarred on his chest from Goku’s punch. While fighting MSSJ Gohan, Gohan mentions Broly is as much a monster as ever. He isn’t stronger. He’s the same as before in ferocity and/or in power.

Myth #9: Broly is stronger than a SSJ2 because he beat SSJ2 Gohan in Movie 10:

Facts:

Facts: No. Gohan was a MSSJ. A weak one at that that didn’t train for seven years. Even if he was a SSJ2 (he wasn’t), it wouldn’t have been an impressive feat because again he hadn’t trained for seven years and got much weaker than he was at the Cell Games. Gohan lost the ability to control SSJ2 with ease, and he wouldn’t have used it on Broly. There’s no proof Gohan was SSJ2 against Broly. No, video games don’t count.

On the other hand, SSJ Broly was getting punked by BASE Gohan even after being weakened from not training. Broly isn’t SSJ2 tier. He’s high-end SSJ tier.

Myth #10: Broly is SSJ3 level / Broly is (any) Buu level / Broly can beat Omega Shenron and/or SSJ4 Gogeta:

Facts:

Broly wouldn't beat full power Perfect Cell.

He probably also wouldn’t beat a MSSJ Gohan from the Cell Games. I’ll restate the record:

  • Lost to a beaten down SSJ with the power of three half dead BASE Saiyans and a Super Namek.
  • Lost to a SSJ child, a weak MSSJ that hadn’t trained for seven years, and (if he was really there) another MSSJ.
  • Lost to Krillin and two SSJ children.
  • Lost to Pikkon and SSJ/MSSJ Goku.

No he can’t beat Omega Shenron, he wouldn't be able to stand in the presence of even Kid Buu. GTFO.

Myth #11: Akira Toriyama said "_________" about Broly:

Facts:

No he didn’t. He never said anything about Broly, he only designed him and left some comments on his design about not caring whether or not he has a tail in the films. He’s also not canon contrary to the rumor that Broly was specially designed by Toriyama; Akira designed most of the non-hero characters in the films and that’s it really.

So in summary:

Broly < SSJ2. Broly's best feat: Broly > MSSJ Gohan (Hadn't trained for 7+ years)

So yeah. I’m sick of seeing Broly’s name on every topic just because people want to wank a crappy character. Seriously. Leave the fan fiction at the door, stop making crap up, and stick to the facts.

I rest my case..

#123 Posted by Cardle_grave (458 posts) - - Show Bio

@xlab3000: No, Majin Vegeta > SSj2 Gohan Manga, The only who got weaker. Not M10 Gohan who got stronger

And it was his best attack, Call the angry explosion. Vegeta survived it

Regardless, No SSj2 alive is touching broly. Broly crushed a SSj2 in 3 hits, Something kid buu nor fat buu done. And yes Broly was toying as well, Since he take gohan as serious as he took goku at the end of movie 8

#124 Edited by Pope052 (2982 posts) - - Show Bio

@cardle_grave:

Regardless, No SSj2 alive is touching broly. Broly crushed a SSj2 in 3 hits, Something kid buu nor fat buu done. And yes Broly was toying as well, Since he take gohan as serious as he took goku at the end of movie 8

If you read my entire post, and still believe that. Then I have no words to describe your ignorance.

And for the record, Majin Buu one shotted SSJ2 Gohan (Since you lack the knowledge of that i'd recommend you re-read the Manga, and/or re-watch the Anime).

Broly struggled to beat MSSJ Gohan who hadn't trained for 7 years. Stop making up things, Broly never fought a Super Saiyan 2 anybody. If he did he would lose, badly.

#125 Edited by Cardle_grave (458 posts) - - Show Bio

@pope052: Bro, You want me to take that post you just posted seriously. I know the guys who wrote that. And they got banned from all the forums because its clear bullshit and beyond

Bro i am not joking, Take this shit to DBZF and you will see how much of a laughing stock this logic is. Bro if you saw my face OMG this logic is just plain retardation

Half dead saiyans, The galaxy busting, There not Cell games, Gohan not SSJ2, Seriously how shameful, I wouldn't even show my face after posting this

1: They are cell games, Since the Movie 8 and movie 9 has the same designs. M9 is after cell games. Also The movie is shown in the 10 day wait which is leading to cell games. Which means there MSSJ

2: Gohan was SSj2

3: Broly zenkai ( I seriously can't believe i have to prove broly is getting zenkai)

4: Gohan getting weaker, LOL wrong . Movie 10 Gohan stated he was stronger not weaker. And i know what happened in the Manga. but this is a movie not manga'

5: broly galaxy busting

1: Broly never destroyed the galaxy in years or months, because king kai wouldn't be worried about his whole galaxy being destroyed if its going to take him years to do so

2: Another proof of him not destroying the galaxy over time is King kai sensing RSSJ broly destroy the galaxy, Not his younger self. Also he wouldnt finally decide to do something after the whole galaxy is destroyed after watching him for years, Also King kai reactions prove that he done it in front of him not in years also

3: Comparisons, Kid Buu in Anime was said to destroy a galaxy in a few years. Compare how the destruction went down

There is the difference between one-shot and over time, if he did it over time than it truly would be all over the place. But it mainly starts from the middle and continues to the end. That properly what happens if you destroy quit a bit of it, it would start collapsing itself if most of the middle is gone. Which i think is natural

But overall, At minimum he should be small galaxy level. Multi SS Level would not even be notice. its like a ant to a house, Since a galaxy has hundreds of billions of star/planet/Solar systems but small galaxy is noticeable which is like a dot or a small chunk.

Broly either one-shot or Done it in a few hours. But never the less in the end he is still a galaxy buster since he done it at his weakest SSJ power. Espically if king kai said at the rate he is going, Even my galaxy would be destroyed. He wouldnt consider him a galaxy level threat if he is doing it 1 by 1, its completely illogical. Especially if the whole galaxy went and then he reacted. Also both Paragus and Piccolo said, that if broly wasn't Stopped. The whole universe would be destroyed. Calculating his life span and how much he has to destroy. Galaxy level makes sense

But he done this at his weakest, I truly believe he should be galaxy at his stronger since there is a massive difference between M8 RSSJ and M10 LSSJ

Regardless, Broly is a Galaxy buster, Since he done this in his weakest SSJ form

And for Gohan and Goku there SSj2 in Movie 10, Also Movie 10 Gohan is not weaker. in Movie 10 he said that he powered up considerably except of getting weaker. Also his Base > SSJ kids

6: Goku and Gohan are SSJ2 in Movie 10 in the family kamehameha

bro, your post its just pathetic

http://dbzf.co.uk/index/ I dare you to go here and post there.

#126 Edited by Pope052 (2982 posts) - - Show Bio

@cardle_grave:

Bro, You want me to take that post you just posted seriously. I know the guys who wrote that. And they got banned from all the forums because its clear bullshit and beyond

You're proving my point about your ignorance.

Bro i am not joking, Take this shit to DBZF and you will see how much of a laughing stock this logic is. Bro if you saw my face OMG this logic is just plain retardation

Likewise this, both of those statements mean nothing.

Half dead saiyans, The galaxy busting, There not Cell games, Gohan not SSJ2, Seriously how shameful, I wouldn't even show my face after posting this

Because it's all true and it counters any Broly "feat" that you can wank him with? Yeah, i'd be ashamed of my ignorance if I were you too.

They are cell games, Since the Movie 8 and movie 9 has the same designs. M9 is after cell games. Also The movie is shown in the 10 day wait which is leading to cell games. Which means there MSSJ

2: Gohan was SSj2

The designs? Seriously? The designs don't mean anything. The film was NEVER STATED to be before the Cell Games. Everything in the film points towards the Z-fighters as mid-ROSAT and not post; nobody is MSSJ, USSJ, or whatever. Goku and Gohan wouldn’t be in base form and Vegeta’s and Trunk’s muscles would be humongous. Gohan has the weakest showing in the film, which should tell you something.

Broly zenkai ( I seriously can't believe i have to prove broly is getting zenkai)

There was no specific evidence of Broly getting a Zenaki. That scan you posted, prove that it's an official statement of Broly getting a Zenaki, because it could very well (and most likely) have been fan-made.

Gohan getting weaker, LOL wrong . Movie 10 Gohan stated he was stronger not weaker. And i know what happened in the Manga. but this is a movie not manga'

I never said that it was manga. I said that Majin Buu one-shotted SSJ2 Gohan and you said he hadn't accomplished something like that. Gohan was MSSJ in Movie 10 and hadn't trained for 7 years, yet Broly was still struggling with him.

He wasn't SSJ2 as he wouldn't have been able to control it as well as he could before, and there was no lightning sparks emerging from his aura which just supports that he wasn't SSJ2 even more.

1: Broly never destroyed the galaxy in years or months, because king kai wouldn't be worried about his whole galaxy being destroyed if its going to take him years to do so

2: Another proof of him not destroying the galaxy over time is King kai sensing RSSJ broly destroy the galaxy, Not his younger self. Also he wouldnt finally decide to do something after the whole galaxy is destroyed after watching him for years, Also King kai reactions prove that he done it in front of him not in years also

3: Comparisons, Kid Buu in Anime was said to destroy a galaxy in a few years. Compare how the destruction went down

1. No, it isn't like that at all. They galaxy was being attacked, not destroyed. It was an entire dub error that led you and many others to believe that Broly could accomplish something like that.

In the original Japanese he says the Galaxy “is being..." In other words it’s BEING attacked; it wasn’t hit with a galaxy-buster. If Broly destroyed the galaxy King Kai would have said “has been..." instead of “is being...". The fact that it’s present and not past tense proves the galaxy is still there.

As for points 2, and 3. They're not even worth taking into consideration. Just listen to the feat entirely and how silly it sounds. If Broly destroyed the galaxy in either Base or SSJ, then turning LSSJ and still struggling to put down four SSJ's, and a Namekian, just doesn't prove anything to you?

There is the difference between one-shot and over time, if he did it over time than it truly would be all over the place. But it mainly starts from the middle and continues to the end. That properly what happens if you destroy quit a bit of it, it would start collapsing itself if most of the middle is gone. Which i think is natural

We see the galaxy shown start to slowly darken bit by bit, not instantly disappear. It fragments, it’s not one-shotted. This is to demonstrate what will be brought up next (that the galaxy is under attack). Calling the blackening slow isn’t completely accurate, it does actually happen quickly to the viewer.

This is because it’s an introduction to the enemy of the film and their threat. It’s established in flashbacks that Broly’s been attacking places since he was a child, making the length of the destruction in the decades range. The galaxy wasn’t destroyed by one attack; it was sped up for the viewer because we’re not going to watch a galaxy get torn up and wait ten years just to get to main story.

But overall, At minimum he should be small galaxy level. Multi SS Level would not even be notice. its like a ant to a house, Since a galaxy has hundreds of billions of star/planet/Solar systems but small galaxy is noticeable which is like a dot or a small chunk.

Broly either one-shot or Done it in a few hours. But never the less in the end he is still a galaxy buster since he done it at his weakest SSJ power. Espically if king kai said at the rate he is going, Even my galaxy would be destroyed. He wouldnt consider him a galaxy level threat if he is doing it 1 by 1, its completely illogical. Especially if the whole galaxy went and then he reacted. Also both Paragus and Piccolo said, that if broly wasn't Stopped. The whole universe would be destroyed. Calculating his life span and how much he has to destroy. Galaxy level makes sense

Regardless, Broly is a Galaxy buster, Since he done this in his weakest SSJ form

This adds nothing to your case and doesn't prove anything. Broly's entire "galaxy-busting" feat was a dub-error no matter how hard you try to create loop-holes around it.

Like I said before. If Broly had destroyed it in either Base or SSJ, yet struggled to put down the Z fighters while in his MOST POWERFUL LSSJ Form, they just contradict each other. The whole feat is absurd and flawed, it's a dub error.

But he done this at his weakest, I truly believe he should be galaxy at his stronger since there is a massive difference between M8 RSSJ and M10 LSSJ

"Belief and should be" doesn't prove anything. You need to PROVE things.

For the last time, Broly "destroying the galaxy" was a total dub-error. It was a mistake altogether. Just accept it and stop making yourself appear like such a fanatic.

And for Gohan and Goku there SSj2 in Movie 10, Also Movie 10 Gohan is not weaker. in Movie 10 he said that he powered up considerably except of getting weaker. Also his Base > SSJ kids

SSJ Broly was struggling with Base Goten and Trunks.

6: Goku and Gohan are SSJ2 in Movie 10 in the family kamehameha

No they weren't, Those scans don't mean ANYTHING. Goku, Gohan, and Goten were all SSJ. There was no indication of SSJ2. You can't prove it, you can't prove something that didn't happen.

Broly had never battled or encountered a Super Saiyan 2, ever. Goku was SSJ/MSSJ, Gohan was MSSJ, and the rest were all regular SSJ's.

Just face it, Broly is nothing that you and many others make him out to be. No matter how hard you try, Broly cannot one-shot a galaxy, Broly is not above MSSJ Goku level (he was beaten by MSSJ Goku and Pikkon, which just proves a lot).

Let me list you the ONLY fighters Broly had defeated:

  • MSSJ Gohan, hadn't trained for 7 years.
  • SSJ Goten, SSJ Trunks, Krillin, and Videl.
  • Android 18.

Broly at his strongest lost to MSSJ Goku and Pikkon. Call it bad-writing like you Broly fan-boys always do just to deny the facts, but it still happened and therefore you cannot put Broly above MSSJ level.

#127 Posted by SuperDrummer (721 posts) - - Show Bio

@superdrummer: I am not talking about that scene of cell, I am talking about when vegeta is charging at cell

I'm aware, thats why I clarified.

#128 Posted by All_Mighty_Beyonder (1577 posts) - - Show Bio

@pope052:

Umm.. you're just denying the evidence that Broly didn't actually destroy the galaxy. The line used in the opening sequence in the English dub states that the galaxy has been destroyed by a Super Saiyan. The original Japanese states that the galaxy is under attack.Under attack, not destroyed. It is in thethorough process of being destroyed, not one-shotted.

i'm not denying anything, because there is no evidence in the first place that Broly didn't destroy the galaxy.

we have on screen with image and sound galaxy destruction feat, how could people just deny their own eyes and ears? this is out of my mind. the quote that they are using "galaxy is under attack" doesn't mean Broly is not destorying the galaxy or can't destroy the galaxy, it just means Broly is in the process of destroying it, it doesn't explain how he is destroying the galaxy, one shotted or not, the expression "galaxy is under attack" doesn't give a definitive evidence. but the on-screen instance with image/sound gives the definitive evidence that Broly is busting the galaxy.

the expression "galaxy is under attack" proves that Broly is a galaxy level threat. but of course galaxy buster>=galaxy level threat. the expression doesn't prove Broly can't destroy the galaxy.

by the expression "galaxy is under attack", Broly is proven to be galaxy level threat, that means Broly>>>>>>>>>supernova level

by the on-screen instance of destruction, Broly IS confirmed to be galaxy/near galaxy level buster.

If Broly really destroyed the galaxy, then how do you explain Goku using Instant Transmission to move around the Southern Galaxy? The fact that Goku is actually travelling around the galaxy is more than enough to prove that the galaxy was still there. We can still see planets around as he moves. The film itself and the fights take place in the Southern Galaxy.

the movie take place in what remained of the galaxy, some stars and planets around here and there. of course that only proves that Broly didn't evaporate the galaxy completely, and that some crumbs remain here and there.

And like I said, it doesn't make sense for Broly to destroy the galaxy and then struggle to put down a worn out, SSJ Goku. Broly never even used LSSJ until he fought the Z-fighters. That means you’d have to believe that he “busted” the galaxy as either a base Saiyan or SSJ. Goku made Broly bleed twice before he went LSSJ. So that implies that Goku can bust a galaxy while in merely Super Saiyan, which is just beyond ridiculous.

The only fighters Broly had actually beaten were:

  • A weak MSSJ Gohan who hadn't been training for over 7 years. He didn't go Super Saiyan 2 as he wouldn't have as much control over it as he used to. If he had the same control over it and had trained for those years, he would have easily beaten if not completely murder-stomped Broly.
  • SSJ Goten, Trunks, Krillin, and Videl.
  • Android 18.

All of which SSJ2 Goku would one-shot.

Now, let's move onto the fighters that Broly had been defeated by:

  • SSJ Goku w/ the energy of three battle-worn, BASE Saiyans, and a battle-worn Piccolo.
  • SSJ Goku, SSJ Gohan, and SSJ Goten.
  • SSJ Trunks, SSJ Goten, and Krillin.
  • Pikkon, and SSJ/MSSJ Goku.

Broly has never beaten anybody above MSSJ Goku level, where as he has been defeated by fighters on that level or below. Call it bad writing if you will, but it still happened and therefore you cannot put Broly above SSJ2 level just by using faulty assumptions, trying to use dub-errors as feats, and denying evidence that counters all points.

In general, people just need to let go of Broly and realize that he is definitely below SSJ2 Goku level. He might beat SSJ2 Vegeta but SSJ2 Majin Vegeta would absolutely slaughter him.

i don't beleive either that Broly can beat SSJ2 Goku or SSJ3 Goku. but what you're missing is that the prove that Broly is galaxy/near galaxy level buster is the evidence on-screen, not the dub, forget the dub, the dub doesn't prove a thing, it doesn't prove if Broly can or can't destroy the galaxy it only proves he's a galaxy level threat, while the on-screen destruction instance proves Broly is a galaxy/near galaxy level buster.

let's not foret this non-canon stories, it means this is a different timeline with different laws and limits, we can't compare between Goku in Broly/movie story and Goku in manga story, because one is canon while the other is not. if SSJ2 Goku or SSJ3 Goku can beat Broly who's confirmed galaxy buster than that means Goku is galaxy buster, Goku from non-canon movie version is galaxy buster not the canon one, the canon Goku has no prove at all to be galaxy level buster

#129 Edited by Pope052 (2982 posts) - - Show Bio

@all_mighty_beyonder:

A dub-error cancels out the supposed "galaxy-busting" that Broly accomplished. He attacked the galaxy, it was in the process of being destroyed, he didn't one-shot it like you're saying he did.

Read this, if you haven't:

Myth #2: Broly can destroy a galaxy / Broly is a galaxy buster:

Facts:

No he can’t. That’s a terrible dub line that has since spawned countless kids with computers and YouTube access to spam the internet with Broly wank.

In the opening sequence:

  • We see the galaxy shown start to slowly darken bit by bit, not instantly disappear. It fragments, it’s not one-shotted. This is to demonstrate what will be brought up next (that the galaxy is under attack). Calling the blackening slow isn’t completely accurate, it does actually happen quickly to the viewer. This is because it’s an introduction to the enemy of the film and their threat. It’s established in flashbacks that Broly’s been attacking places since he was a child, making the length of the destruction in the decades range. The galaxy wasn’t destroyed by one attack; it was sped up for the viewer because we’re not going to watch a galaxy get torn up and wait ten years just to get to main story.
  • The line used in the opening sequence in the English dub states that the galaxy has been shattered by a Super Saiyan. The original Japanese states that the galaxy is under attack. Under attack, not shattered. It’s in the process of being destroyed, it’s not one-shotted.
  • In the dub King Kai says the South Galaxy is all gone. In the original Japanese he says the Galaxy “is being..." In other words it’s BEING attacked; it wasn’t hit with a galaxy-buster. If Broly destroyed the galaxy King Kai would have said “has been..." instead of “is being...". The fact that it’s present and not past tense proves the galaxy is still there.
  • Goku uses instant transmission to move through the galaxy. The fact that he’s moving around the galaxy is proof enough that Broly didn’t destroy it. We can see all the planets still around. The film takes place in the South Galaxy and the fights occur in the South Galaxy.
  • It’s just stupid. Broly never even used LSSJ until he fought the Z-fighters. That means you’d have to believe that he “busted” the galaxy as either a base Saiyan or SSJ. If you believe that, I have no words. Goku made Broly bleed twice before he went LSSJ. So unless you think Goku can bust a galaxy...

So yeah, he never busted a galaxy. That’s a series of bad dub lines. The original Japanese is fairly clear on what’s going on, and it’s sad to think that if Funimation had been just a little more faithful to the original content there wouldn’t be so much Broly diarrhea out there. The most Broly’s been seen to do is bust a planet. If Broly could bust a galaxy he would have done so instead of struggling to kill a worn down SSJ Goku with continuous punching.

The feat just doesn't make sense if you actually compare it to how he handled the Z fighters while in LSSJ. He didn't even go LSSJ before, so to believe that he busted the galaxy he would have to have been in SSJ, or Base Form. Yet in LSSJ, he couldn't even put down Goku, or the rest, he one-sided the fight yes, but he didn't even KO any of them. If he really had galaxy-busting power while not in LSSJ, he wouldn't have had as much struggle as he did to put down the Z fighters while in LSSJ.

The whole logic behind believing Broly can galaxy-bust is flawed. It would take SSJ4 Gogeta, Bills, Whis, SSJ God Goku to properly galaxy-bust via power-scaling. Maybe SSJ4 Goku/Vegeta, and perhaps SSJ Vegito, Buuhan, and SSJ Gogeta could potentially galaxy bust too. (all of which is debatable on whether they actually can or not).

But NOT somebody who's best proper feat is struggling to beat a MSSJ Gohan (who hadn't trained for 7+ years), and was one-shotted by a SSJ Goku powered by the battle-worn and drained Ki of Vegeta, Trunks, Gohan, and Piccolo.

At best Broly is a potential solar system buster. And YES, that implies that he's weaker than Super Perfect Cell.

#130 Edited by Cardle_grave (458 posts) - - Show Bio

@pope052: OMG typical Broly hating logic, "You're a Brolytard troll, Show your ignorance to real logic"

The designs? Seriously? The designs don't mean anything. The film was NEVER STATED to be before the Cell Games. Everything in the film points towards the Z-fighters as mid-ROSAT and not post; nobody is MSSJ, USSJ, or whatever. Goku and Gohan wouldn’t be in base form and Vegeta’s and Trunk’s muscles would be humongous. Gohan has the weakest showing in the film, which should tell you something.

Try to understand that this is non-canon movie, Not canon so why the hell are you comparing Canon timeline to non-canon. Even AT said movies are side story and don't relate to the series itself. Goku was MSSJ and So was Gohan. Design don't mean anything -.- Yeah they do meatloaf.

Clearly you can see Trunks and Vegeta are pretty much the same as their cell games parts, While M8 trunks looks nothing like 1st rosat

There was no specific evidence of Broly getting a Zenaki. That scan you posted, prove that it's an official statement of Broly getting a Zenaki, because it could very well (and most likely) have been fan-made.

Its a scan from the Daizenshuu 6 designs, And it translated. Seriously i can't believe i am proving broly go near death. Even gohan himself says he got

I never said that it was manga. I said that Majin Buu one-shotted SSJ2 Gohan and you said he hadn't accomplished something like that. Gohan was MSSJ in Movie 10 and hadn't trained for 7 years, yet Broly was still struggling with him.

He wasn't SSJ2 as he wouldn't have been able to control it as well as he could before, and there was no lightning sparks emerging from his aura which just supports that he wasn't SSJ2 even more.

Majin buu 2 Shot, Not 1 shot. SSJ Gohan

Clearly gohan is SSJ, Since he said he is not a full power. meaning he is only SSj here. And struggled, You call getting beaten in 3 hits and 1:20 seconds struggling -.-

And no the sparks, No SSJ2 argument in toei world means shit. Toei Animation didn't even put sparks on Vegeta and Goku SSj2 in M12 and M13. he didnt even put sparks on SSj3 Goku M12. he doesnt give 2 shits about sparks

1. No, it isn't like that at all. They galaxy was being attacked, not destroyed. It was an entire dub error that led you and many others to believe that Broly could accomplish something like that.

In the original Japanese he says the Galaxy “is being..." In other words it’s BEING attacked; it wasn’t hit with a galaxy-buster. If Broly destroyed the galaxy King Kai would have said “has been..." instead of “is being...". The fact that it’s present and not past tense proves the galaxy is still there.

As for points 2, and 3. They're not even worth taking into consideration. Just listen to the feat entirely and how silly it sounds. If Broly destroyed the galaxy in either Base or SSJ, then turning LSSJ and still struggling to put down four SSJ's, and a Namekian, just doesn't prove anything to you?

If you haven't notice, No one is even using the English Dub -.-. Second the Galaxy under attack can mean many things, broly was destroying the galaxy so Fast, He said "At this rate, Even my northern galaxy would be destroyed" he wouldn't consider him a galaxy level threat if he was taking years to do so, Also King kai reaction proves he done it right in front of him and sensing RSSJ power proves he never done it over time. And he react and called a galaxy level threat AFTER the galaxy was gone. Not before

And struggling to put down 4 SSJ and Namekian, Its more of the GOD STOMP and beyond. Seriously struggling in M8. I really want to know what movie you are watching to seriously think its struggling. Struggling rolling my eyes so hard they're going to fall off

We see the galaxy shown start to slowly darken bit by bit, not instantly disappear. It fragments, it’s not one-shotted. This is to demonstrate what will be brought up next (that the galaxy is under attack). Calling the blackening slow isn’t completely accurate, it does actually happen quickly to the viewer.

This is because it’s an introduction to the enemy of the film and their threat. It’s established in flashbacks that Broly’s been attacking places since he was a child, making the length of the destruction in the decades range. The galaxy wasn’t destroyed by one attack; it was sped up for the viewer because we’re not going to watch a galaxy get torn up and wait ten years just to get to main story.

Bro please go water your eyes or something, The galaxy is going in a perfect motion, And continuing that motions towards the end. Meaning one blast done the trick, Unlike kid buu where parts and parts are going without motion.

And seriously this flash back as a kid has been debunk so many times, King Kai said a SSJ and got a reading on his power destroyed the galaxy, Also King kai is not going to sit there and watch the whole galaxy get destroyed and finally do something about it. Also King kai reaction proves broly done it right in front of him and its prove he reacted quickly as he called goku to stop him. And king kai would say " AT THIS RATE, Even my northern galaxy would be destroyed" He quickly considered him a galaxy level threat. And i don't think he is talking about years

This adds nothing to your case and doesn't prove anything. Broly's entire "galaxy-busting" feat was a dub-error no matter how hard you try to create loop-holes around it.

Like I said before. If Broly had destroyed it in either Base or SSJ, yet struggled to put down the Z fighters while in his MOST POWERFUL LSSJ Form, they just contradict each other. The whole feat is absurd and flawed, it's a dub error.

bro you need to water your eyes, You call M8 Broly struggling. Really i am going to make a thread and say did broly struggle with M8 Z fighters, And Bro how many times am i going to say this, NO ONE IS USING THE ENGLISH DUB, SO Stop bringing it up

SSJ Broly was struggling with Base Goten and Trunks.

First he god stomps both the SSJ kids, Forget about base. there SSJ couldn't even budge him and he stomp the shit out of them. So no, I really don't see how that is even classified as struggling

No they weren't, Those scans don't mean ANYTHING. Goku, Gohan, and Goten were all SSJ. There was no indication of SSJ2. You can't prove it, you can't prove something that didn't happen.

Broly had never battled or encountered a Super Saiyan 2, ever. Goku was SSJ/MSSJ, Gohan was MSSJ, and the rest were all regular SSJ's.

Just face it, Broly is nothing that you and many others make him out to be. No matter how hard you try, Broly cannot one-shot a galaxy, Broly is not above MSSJ Goku level (he was beaten by MSSJ Goku and Pikkon, which just proves a lot).

Let me list you the ONLY fighters Broly had defeated:

  • MSSJ Gohan, hadn't trained for 7 years.
  • SSJ Goten, SSJ Trunks, Krillin, and Videl.
  • Android 18.

Broly at his strongest lost to MSSJ Goku and Pikkon. Call it bad-writing like you Broly fan-boys always do just to deny the facts, but it still happened and therefore you cannot put Broly above MSSJ level.

Seriously bro you need to wake up, My pictures i posted prove he was SSJ2.

All these pictures are from the Movie 10 Manga, Or known as the OOP released by Toei animation

Good luck being a troll, Its clear you got no argument, You seriously think you pathetic bullshit is right. Than Take it to DBZF, Kazenshuu, DRagonball platinum, Pojo.biz and you will see how much they would laugh at this

The whole logic behind believing Broly can galaxy-bust is flawed. It would take SSJ4 Gogeta, Bills, Whis, SSJ God Goku to properly galaxy-bust via power-scaling. Maybe SSJ4 Goku/Vegeta, and perhaps SSJ Vegito, Buuhan, and SSJ Gogeta could potentially galaxy bust too. (all of which is debatable on whether they actually can or not).

Wow what kind of logic is that, SSj4 Vegeta and Goku can galaxy bust, But not SSj4 Gogeta -.- also broly is non-canon, So why the hell are you bring up Canon characters and comparing it to a non-canon character. AT even said Movies are side story and not to be mixed with the Canon. And he you are mixing

#131 Posted by the_last_kryptonian (1415 posts) - - Show Bio

@pope052: You're still not addressing why king kai would have waited ten years before having a reaction to the destruction of the galaxy. Stop ignoring that and give your response.

#132 Posted by Pope052 (2982 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_last_kryptonian:

Like I said before:

"It’s established in flashbacks that Broly’s been attacking places since he was a child, making the length of the destruction in the decades range. The galaxy wasn’t destroyed by one attack; it was sped up for the viewer because we’re not going to watch a galaxy get torn up and wait ten years just to get to main story".

King Kai wouldn't have waited ten years to react to it because Broly wasn't a galaxy level threat until it was basically destroyed. Yes, Broly DID destroy the galaxy, but not in the way people are making it out to be. He attacked and destroyed it bit by bit over time, it wasn't one-shotted.

@cardle_grave

There's no point in trying to debate with you anymore. You ignore everything I say.Those picture scans don't prove anything about them being Super Saiyan 2. Broly at his strongest (even if he got a Zenkai), was defeated by Pikkon and a SSJ/MSSJ Goku.

I like how you also ignore the fact that Broly had lost to:

  • Movie 8: A SSJ (Goku) with the energy of three half dead Saiyans and a half dead Namek.
  • Movie 10: MSSJ Goku (if he was even actually there), MSSJ Gohan (weak after not training for 7 years and exhausted from fighting Broly), and a SSJ child (Goten).
  • Movie 11A: Two SSJ children (Trunks and Goten) and Krillin.
  • Movie 11B: Pikkon and SSJ/MSSJ Goku.

Even if you're going to call it bad-writing, it still caused Broly not to prevail against a MSSJ Goku at his strongest, so you can't put him equal or above that level.

#133 Posted by Cardle_grave (458 posts) - - Show Bio

@pope052: Really, Despite the fact the creator said himself that broly was so strong, he couldn't find anyone stronger than him. And called him the strongest. not until M12 that is

In handling the scripts for the films, what I always worried about each time was the problem of what to do about the opponent Goku fights against. That’s because, at the very least, they had to be stronger than [the ones from] the previous movie.

After much hard work, I was unable to come up with an opponent stronger than Broli, and fell into a rut where I made him appear three times.

That is to say, there’s the matter of questioning the idea of Broli as the strongest. As you are well aware, vehement opinions on the subject have been flying back and forth on this message board, as well as a variety of [other] websites.

Creator of broli said all this

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2013/07/07/takao-koyamas-thoughts-on-battle-of-gods/

Mate, Your logic is complete stupidity. Seriously i dare you to go the DBZF and try to prove that, I reckon you would be banned in 10 post or less

King Kai wouldn't have waited ten years to react to it because Broly wasn't a galaxy level threat until it was basically destroyed. Yes, Broly DID destroy the galaxy, but not in the way people are making it out to be. He attacked and destroyed it bit by bit over time, it wasn't one-shotted.

So king kai was blind for years and now he can finally see

Still trying to prove he done it over time, King Kai sensed RSSJ Destroy the galaxy. Not his younger self, And he wouldn't sit there waiting for it to be DESTROYED and finally decides to do something about it. And his reactions proves he done it front of him. Not to mention he quickly labeled him as a Galaxy threat by saying at this rate even my northern galaxy would be destroyed. And Quickly called goku, He QUICKLY called goku after the galaxy is Destroyed. So no, he didn't do it over time, Especially if his dad wanted it to stop and put the device on his head to stop him

Yep just owned a Sailor moon fanboy thinking it can beat goku, Now its your turn

#134 Posted by xlab3000 (3130 posts) - - Show Bio
#135 Edited by Cardle_grave (458 posts) - - Show Bio

@xlab3000: Because Movie 10 is not the Canon manga, Know the different bud because its not hard to figure out. Gohan got so much stronger that his Base is stronger than the SSJ kids. While in manga none of Goku base or Vegeta base are stronger than the SSJ kids

Know the difference, Its not rocket science. All movies are alternative timelines if you haven't notice. Even AT said they dont relate to the Canon timeline, So why are you mixing both GOhan in Manga and M10 together is beyond me

And don't call me denial chump, Both you and pope are just wasting my time with proof that guys wouldn't even take serious.

#136 Posted by All_Mighty_Beyonder (1577 posts) - - Show Bio

@pope052:

We see the galaxy shown start to slowly darken bit by bit, not instantly disappear

bring me one kind of explosions that instantly make thing disappear, there isn't, explosions has a center and spread in time to the edges, just like what happened in galaxy destruction feat

It fragments, it’s not one-shotted. This is to demonstrate what will be brought up next (that the galaxy is under attack). Calling the blackening slow isn’t completely accurate, it does actually happen quickly to the viewer. This is because it’s an introduction to the enemy of the film and their threat. It’s established in flashbacks that Broly’s been attacking places since he was a child, making the length of the destruction in the decades range. The galaxy wasn’t destroyed by one attack; it was sped up for the viewer because we’re not going to watch a galaxy get torn up and wait ten years just to get to main story.

this is pure assumption with no evidence at all. you don't have a proof that the destruction happened in a very long time. Broly being destorying things when a kid means little to nothing, compared to galaxy level destruction. So what you're assuming is without evidence. Moreover what you're assuming is refutable by evidence, since : 1/ no time has been mentionned in the galaxy destuction scene, 2/ King kai being suddenly surprised and worried from Broly. if Broly begun destruction on galaxy scale since youth King Kai would have done something before the galaxy is completly darkened/destroyed, he wouldn't be surprised and suddenlt worried. that's a proof that the galaxy has been destroyed in very short moment if not one shotted.

The line used in the opening sequence in the English dub states that the galaxy has been shattered by a Super Saiyan. The original Japanese states that the galaxy is under attack. Under attack, not shattered. It’s in the process of being destroyed, it’s not one-shotted.

i explained this in my last post just before this one, i won't keep repeating the obvious.

In the dub King Kai says the South Galaxy is all gone. In the original Japanese he says the Galaxy “is being..." In other words it’s BEING attacked; it wasn’t hit with a galaxy-buster. If Broly destroyed the galaxy King Kai would have said “has been..." instead of “is being...". The fact that it’s present and not past tense proves the galaxy is still there

again, "is being" doesn't prove Broly didn't destroy the galaxy. it means Broly at that moment is destorying the galaxy, but doesn't specify how, he would have been one shooting it or making few minutes of galaxy destruction, or making few hours. if the process took super long timing, then King Kai wouldn't be worried and wouldn't call for Goku in a rush.

Goku uses instant transmission to move through the galaxy. The fact that he’s moving around the galaxy is proof enough that Broly didn’t destroy it. We can see all the planets still around. The film takes place in the South Galaxy and the fights occur in the South Galaxy.

this has been explained before, the film happened in what remains of the galaxy, few stars and planets around here and there, that's all. and it would make no sense if all the galaxy is still there, because Goku will have to search trillions of solar systems, it makes absolutely no sense, unless only few thousand solar systems remains. that's more resonable search.

moreover, we have an other proof of galaxy destruction, where Goku says himself that broly actually destroyed the galaxy. and that's original right dub i'm talking about.

The feat just doesn't make sense if you actually compare it to how he handled the Z fighters while in LSSJ. He didn't even go LSSJ before, so to believe that he busted the galaxy he would have to have been in SSJ, or Base Form. Yet in LSSJ, he couldn't even put down Goku, or the rest, he one-sided the fight yes, but he didn't even KO any of them. If he really had galaxy-busting power while not in LSSJ, he wouldn't have had as much struggle as he did to put down the Z fighters while in LSSJ.

as said, this non canon, SSJ Goku in Broly movie is not SSJ Goku in manga, the characters in movies are super overpowered. we have clear on-screen evidence of galaxy destruction for Broly, if broly is galaxy destroyer and Goku could stand to him, than Goku is galaxy destroyer too it's that simple. but as i said that movie version Goku, not manga Goku.

At best Broly is a potential solar system buster. And YES, that implies that he's weaker than Super Perfect Cell.

again, you're making the big mistake of comparing between real manga characters and non-canon characters, thinking they are the same, when they aren't. if SSJ2 Goku can beat Broly, who's proven by on-screen evidence to be galaxy destroyer then SSJ2 Goku is also galaxy destroyer, but that's Goku from the movies, as for canon Goku from manga, nothing proves he's even close to galaxy destroyer.

and even if we assume what you're saying is right, Broly would be a galaxy threat, that means he can destory the galaxy in a long time, and because galaxies are made of trillions of solar systems, that means Broly is massively>>>>>>>>>> supernova, which make him more powerful than canon Super Prefect Cell who's only solar system buster.

#137 Edited by Jgames (1624 posts) - - Show Bio

This is why ladies and gentleman we use powerscaling, much easier that way

#138 Posted by Cardle_grave (458 posts) - - Show Bio

Overall, broly is a galaxy buster. Nothing indicates he done it over time since king kai debunks it

And broly > SSj2 Goku any day of the weel

#139 Edited by xlab3000 (3130 posts) - - Show Bio

@cardle_grave: Can you read? Non-Canon=Unofficial NOT Alternate Timeline. Like I said M10 happened before The World Tournament. Did you even look at the Official Dragonball Z Timeline? Yet he said it wasn't related but an Official Timeline was established with movies, filler and GT as a part of it. You're underrating ssj2 Goku and overrating lssj Broly despite the proof from the anime and manga.When you're done making up claims let me know otherwise you may as well debating on Moviecodec. Dude Einstein wouldn't take you seriously lol. I don't even know why you're overrating a character in a stomp match anyway lol. You thinking lssj Broly can beat ssj2 Goku is like me thinking Yamcha can beat Frieza lol.

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/lssj-broly-vs-majin-vegeta-1457501/

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/vegeta-vs-brolly-654313/

#140 Edited by Cardle_grave (458 posts) - - Show Bio

@xlab3000: That is not the official timeline though lol, its just wiki. the movie doesn't have a timeline place like m12, Gotenks kills Super Buu or M11 Goku is in other world eating except in the kai worlds watching gohan train. Movie timeline are different to the manga

Everyone knows Broly would beat SSj2 goku, Goku is not even in broly league. Gohan himself in M10 is stronger than Goku since his base > SSJ kids. When Goku base isn't

Some parts of the movie shows its was after budokai, Since Video know about shenron, The kids knew about Goku when before budokai they didn't know him, They also know his power

I have explain this all a thousand X before

Broly beat gohan in 3 hits, There is no way Majin Vegeta and Goku are coming close to that stomp

#141 Posted by xlab3000 (3130 posts) - - Show Bio

@cardle_grave: Then what about the other timeline huh, I posted 2 of them the last time I checked. By everyone you mean Broly fans right. ssj2 Goku beating lssj Broly is just plain common sense. Really you're bringing up the same argument Broly beat Gohan in 3 hits. Did you even pay attention to the post I made about Majin Vegeta and Majin Buu? Is that all you can do make the same arguments again when you can't come up with new ones. I'm not about to go around in circles with you peace.

#142 Edited by Cardle_grave (458 posts) - - Show Bio

@xlab3000: Buddy, I know all the fights and what happened in Manga and anime, The other times are different, In M8 Goku and Gohan are not SSJ, In M7 The andriod were killed and cell wasnt made. In M6 Piccolo was super namek before the andriod had arrived. Movie 4 Goku defeated Freeza without Going SSJ since False SSJ = SSJ and Slug was said to be stronger than Freeza

all of them are alternative universes, They don't relate to manga and no, I know guys who had broly guys and still have him above SSJ2 Goku. And even the guy who made broly said broly was the strongest from M8 to M11, Thus >>> SSj2 Goku

And your arguments are false, since you're comparing 2 different character are 2 different levels

#143 Posted by CaptainUzi (1679 posts) - - Show Bio

Goku finds a way. He always finds a way.

#144 Edited by Cardle_grave (458 posts) - - Show Bio

@captainuzi: He won't this time, Even him + another SSJ2 and SSJ couldn't find away to beat broly in the beam struggle.

But if he has dragonfist, than he would stop

#145 Edited by FANNYBUSTER (129 posts) - - Show Bio

Goku NEVER defeated Broly then, and he won't once turning SSJ2 either. There is a clear power gap between the antagonist and protagonists in M8. The SSJ2 multiplier is said to be 100x base. In M8, all four of the Saiyan's have surpassed the "super saiyan" wall at around 75x their base through ROSAT. Still, however, there is a CLEAR gap between their ascended forms and Broly's form, therefore a 25 plus power up to a SSJ2 is not enough to defeat Broly. Maybe another 50 or 100 perhaps, but 25? Its laughable when these clowns mention Goku beating Broly how he did Frieza. The M8 conclusion does not reflect Broly's true potential, nor does M10. Have you ever heard of PIS? Yeah, pretty much what happens in every Broly movie. I've never seen any DB/DBZ/GT villain control a full power multiple-person energy projectile with one hand and laugh it off as if he could just one shot them in a millisecond. We all know Broly could've one shotted them in M10, to think a weakened Trunks saved the day is obvious PIS. Broly wins 11/10 without plot induced stupidity.

#146 Edited by Albertphytagoras (1705 posts) - - Show Bio

Better fight: Silver age superman vs Broly.

#147 Edited by Marshall_Long (1870 posts) - - Show Bio

@albertphytagoras: You should really delete that comment it's pretty unnecessary in this thread and could start a potential flame war.

Online
#150 Posted by Cardle_grave (458 posts) - - Show Bio

@fannybuster: Bro you got to delete your post, they would still see it