SSJ Gotenks Pre vs Kid Buu

Its has been established that Gotenks SSJ pre>SSJ3 Goku. This is supported by the fact that Goku stated that 'a stronger fighter than him will fight Buu in 2 days'(Paraphrased). It was also stated that if Goku charged SSJ3 to full power, he could defeat Kid Buu. So, SSJ Gotenks pre>SSJ3 Goku>Kid Buu?

Thoughts?

Round 1: SSJ Gotenks pre

Round 2: SSJ Gotenks post

- For the sake of the argument, Gotenks is serious and is not messing around like he normally does(Bloodlusted)

Location: World of the Kais

What does pre and post mean? Does that mean pre and post HTC? Also, I don't think SS Gotenks is stronger than SS3 Goku. I interpreted what Goku was saying as he wanted to give the kids a chance to save the world. As for the battle, if its SS3 Gotenks, I think he could take Kid Buu if he's bloodlusted. He could have finished Super Buu if he wasn't being such an idiot.

@sokusonic4: Super Buu was actually toying with Gotenks, I remember him saying he was keeping power reserved for Gohan.

Kid Buu stomps

@marshall_long: I forgot about that. So I guess the question is how much stronger is Super Buu compared to Kid Buu, and if they are close to about even, then I would give the win to Kid Buu.

Kid Buu wins.

Gotenks. Gotenks is as close to a jobber as a Fusion can get, but he was def mroe powerful than super buu interms of raw power. He should beat him no different than Goku should have beaten Kid Buu. But Saiyans are a cocky bunch

If i do remember correctly, goku wanted the kids to be the ones to beat buu; the same way he wanted gohan to beat cell. if they can't put buu away, the battle will be dragged out, resulting in them defusing and dying

Gotenks may be serious, but he is in no way strong enough to take Kid Buu. He barely held his own against Super Buu and only got the upper hand in ssj3, just because Goku stated that fusion was stronger than his ssj3 form and that his full power ssj3 is enough to defeat buu there is no reason to believe that logic applies here. Kid Buu is impossible to predict and knows instant transmission, not to mention that he absorbed several Kais before the series and could very well do the same here.

@ancient_0f_days:

SSJ3 Gotenks has the advantage of raw power over Kid Buu. SSJ3 Goku was evenly matched with Kid Buu, who was weaker than every Buu except for Majin. SSJ3 Gotenks is stronger, but the main problem is his time limit.

@mrunsmiley: The idea of being the weaker Buu doesn't tell me that he would lose to any of them besides maybe Buuhan. Kid Buu being less powerful doesn't make him any less fast, any less prepared to blow everything to hell, any less versatile, or any less able to win before Gotenks times out.

@cerberus369616: Goku thought he could generate enough power to beat Buu and he ran out of energy when he tried to power up. So no, he shouldn't have beaten Buu. It took the power of all the Z fighters, the dragonballs and everyone on earth to beat Kid Buu. He is superior to Buuhan

Gotenks slaughters. SSJ Gotenks pre-ROSAT is slightly stronger than SSJ3 Goku. Goku himself stated that fusion would be enough to destroy Fat Buu. Post ROSAT SSJ Gotenks was even stronger and was able to land hits on Super Buu, who Goku admitted would annihilate him. SSJ3 Goku is stronger than Kid Buu, so Gotenks would destroy him. A 'Super Ghost Kamikaze attacks' would do it.

Super Buu=Gotenks SSJ3>>SSJ Gotenks post>>Base Gotenks post=SSJ Gotenks pre>Goku SSJ3>=Kid Buu

Mystic Gohan >> Super Buu > Gotenks SSJ3 >>> Gotenks SSJ > Goku SSJ3 > Kid Buu

I disagree.

Because I believe you're wrong

Well it's not an Opinion it's a Fact.

Lets state facts.

SSJ3 Gotenks was said to be even stronger than SSJ3 Goku, proven, no wait, A FACT.

Goku would've easily beaten Buu if Buu didn't absorb SSJ3 Gotenks, Piccolo, abd Ultimate Gohan.

I'm thinking full powered, pre SSJ3 Gotenks would stomp Kid Buu, even at full power.

Vegito > SSJ3 Gotenks > Kid Buu > SSJ3 Goku > Ultimate Gohan > Super Buu

Gotenks takes it round 2

If Gotenks is serious, I don't see him losing.

Manga scans prove otherwise.

I really feel like some fans overstate Gotenks' power just because of a couple sentences from various characters that can be taken out of context. SSJ1 Gotenks literally has no feats at all, he has not proven his power. Common sense tells us he's extremely strong, but strong enough to beat Majin Boo? I don't buy it.

During the training for the Tenkaichi Budokai during the Boo arc (I believe it was the 28th) Goten and Trunks were both about on par with Gohan, and not any more than a couple notches below Vegeta. But Goku was stronger than Vegeta, which is why Vegeta needed the Majin boost, meaning the kids are many notches below Goku. If the kids were a five, Vegeta would be a six, and Goku would be a seven. The Fusion Dance merely adds the two powers together, Potara is what multiplies, meaning Gotenks is only a ten, not like ten thousand or whatever some fans think. And this is being very conservative, Goku was likely much stronger than what I'm giving credit for, he could be an eight compared to their five and Vegeta a seven, considering Vegeta dodged all of Trunks' blows without blocking and then laid him out with a single reflex-punch.

By fusing Gotenks gained the ability to go SSJ3, so since he was already a step ahead of Goku at base, he maintained that advantage with each form. But there's little proof to state he was leaps and bounds ahead. I can not picture a Super Saiyan 1 beating a Super Saiyan 3, regardless of Goku's uninformed guess at the fusion's power, made only to try and appease Boo and not actually stated in an objective context.

Again, in order for Gotenks to be leaps and bounds stronger than Goku, the kids individually would each need to already be stronger than Goku, which makes no sense. Gotenks is stronger than Goku, proportionally to how much stronger Goku is compared to either kid individually. This puts Goku in oneshot territory if Gotenks fought him, since Vegeta=Goku oneshotted Goten, but that's a lot different from a Super Saiyan 1 superseding a Super Saiyan 3. Instead of oneshot territory, that'd be more like Beerus-finger-flicking territory.

You only need to be twice as strong as someone in order to stomp them. I feel like a lot of fans really overstate power differences, like Cell is a thousand times stronger than Freeza, and Boohan is a million bajillion times stronger than SSJ3 Goku! No way, that's ridiculous. From my observations of feats, statements, hype, and logic, Gotenks is something like 1.5x stronger than Goku (assuming the kids individually are more than half as strong as Goku) and since Gohan fodderized a fighter equal with Gotenks, he's about twice as strong as Goku.

TL;DR: Gotenks gets killed. Boo is more powerful and has regen, and infinite stamina. Gotenks only has 30 minutes.

@nickzambuto

I cannot speak for those making the "bajillion times stronger" comments but Goku's seen the techinque done by the metmoreans and knows how strong Goten and Trunks are, so you we can't just write his estimate off as "uninformed". It is not like it is just some random guess. Besides, Piccolo also seemed to agree that Gotenks was strong enough to defeat Buu(as a super saiyan) and his only concern was Gotenks' speed, to which the latter offers to demonstrate elsewere. The only form that allows Gotenks to outright surpass Goku is SSJ3.

Let me ask you this, when is it actually stated that Gotenks can beat Boo at SSJ1? Because I just took a look at the manga and even the Kanzenshuu strength checker, and I can not find any such claim.

Goku said that when boys master the techique, they would be strong enough to to beat Buu. When they intially fuse in Base, Piccolo immeidately objects to them fighting Buu and says that would be slaughtered in their current state and scolds them. Yet, when they fuse as super saiyans, Piccolo had no such reaction and only questioned their speed. In addtion, he did not think it necassary for them to use the ROSAT until after Super Buu appeared.

EDIT: Goku makes the statment when talking to Piccolo. I'll have a look for it when I get back.

SSJ 3 Gotenks > Kid Buu = SSJ 3 Goku

but if Kid Buu uses a planetary destruction attack then he could win since Gotenks lacks battle knowledge

like Gotenks vs Avo Cado (Fused) Goteneks was clearly stronger but couldn't stop a planetary attack for

I don't know, that seems pretty weak to me. It isn't 100% affirmation that Super Saiyan 1 Gotenks is stronger than Majin Boo. Goku knew the power of the fusion dance and was confident the boys could handle things, with the guidance of Piccolo etc. That's all it says really, not directly "You can beat Majin Boo as a Super Saiyan 1 if you fuse." He was just confident they could figure things out if they had the power of fusion to help. When they fuse as Super Saiyans, Piccolo did not immediately say "alright you're stronger than Boo now, but just show me your speed." He was interested in testing and training them, there were no immediate declarations or even direct implications that SSJ1 Gotenks could definitely beat Boo. It just sounds to me like people are reading too much into minor bits of dialogue, the fact that Goten and Trunks individually were not as strong as Goku is already enough to confirm that Gotenks can't be outrageously stronger either.

@boomvox: ssj3 Goku=Kid buu<ssj 3 Gotenks< Super Buu< Ultimate Gohan.

you really need to re-watch the show or reread the manga. Ultimate Gohan was clearly shown to be above ssj3 Gotenks.

Kid Buu can beat ssj Gotenks, but looses to ssj3.

Actually, SSJ3 gotenks has the slight edge over Super Buu. Gotenks was beating the crap out of Buu throughout most of their fight,

@alextheboss: Kid Buu can beat Gotenks in any of his Saiyan Forms. Ultimate Gohan easily beat Super Buu, okay good for him, Super Buu started trying when SSJ3 Gotenks started kicking his butt. Gohan started having a hard time after Buu absorbed Piccolo and SSJ3 Gotenks. SSJ3 Goku lost to Buu (Thanks to Buu now having both Ultimate Gohan, SSJ3 Gotenks and Piccolo absorbed) it took Vegito to beat him (I'm sure Vegito didn't need to go Super Saiyan just to beat him, Dx.) so basically... Vegito > SSJ3 Goku > Kid Buu > Ultimate Gohan > SSJ3 Gotenks > Super Buu > Piccolo And also, Gotenks was playing around when he fought Buu as a kid. This time (Stated by the thread) He's serious in both Post/Pre. Also, POST is WAYYYYYYY stronger than Pre (If you saw the Manga and/or Anime) so Post would ultimtely pwn Buu in Round 2, and also, Round 2 would be Adult Gotenks, I think..?

@nickzambuto: Here's the thing. Kid Buu would destroy Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks (Pre) whether he's kidding or Serious (If he's Serious, he'd possibly have a harder chance.) Don't bring up Frieza, it's a whole different level, telling SSJ3 Gotenks is prob stronger than Super Saiyan Goku, and he took a SSJ Goku to beat Freiza, wow. SSJ3 Gotenks started giving Super Buu a hard time, when he stopped acting around, so what about a like possibly, 100x-1000x stronger/older/more serious version of SSJ3 Gotenks (Post/Adult Gotenks) which is on a higher and WHOLE different level than Buu. He MIGHT have a chance. Plus, 30 MIN is more than enough time. He's better than 10 MIN (Which SSJ4 Gogeta has, and that's enough time for him to kick someone's butt..) Majin Buu beat Gotenks with ease (Base) by Super Saiyan 1 increases their power by 10x, So not only are they faster, more Stamina, more damage, more Ki. We never got to see SSJ1 Gotenks vs Buu, because they raced around the "world" so many times, they stopped to take a nap, xDDDD!!! so yeah. Cell is stronger than Freiza and Cooler and crap, by possibly a lot (Unless you mean Post/Current Freiza..)

Ssj Gotenks both rounds

kid buu STOMPS both rounds.

You need SS3 gotenks to make the fight even.

@boomvox: No Gohan was clearly above ssj 3 Goku and Gotenks. Goku even said he couldn't beat kid buu without fusion. In the Anime Goku said he could beat super buu, but that was in the anime only. Some people even think ssj3 Gotenks and Gohan are over 8x stronger than ssj3 Goku, however I disagree. Also in an interview Toriyama said Gotenks>Goku.

They are all around the same power, but Gohan doesn't run out of energy as fast as the others two and doesn't have a time limit. He also fought the best against super buu.

@alextheboss: mystic Gohan is slightly stronger than ssj3 goku well more than slightly goku said he couldn't lay a ha d on super boo iirc and we all know what Gohan did.

@mrunsmiley: I have a question. If Majin Buu (fat Buu) absorbed people how is it that he was beaten by kid Buu? Logically even though Majin Buu was kind he should have been stronger and faster than kid Buu

The original Majin Buu (Kid Buu) was pure evil. He did end up getting stronger by absorbing the South Supreme Kai, but because he absorbed the Grand Supreme Kai, who was pure good, a good deal of his power was neutralized.

Kid Buu is officially the weakest, but he's also the most dangerous because how reckless and instinctual he is, and because he lacks proper reasoning.

@xxxcarzellxxx: Goku just said he would be killed by super buu, he never said how badly he would be beat. Also Goku's ssj 3 runs out of power really quickly, and buu can keep regenerating. Even if he was the same strength as super buu he would of been killed.

@nickzambuto: not gonna reply to it all but your'e post has so much wrong if the dance was merely addition how could ss1 gogeta beat a character much more powerful than ss3 goku, have you watched dbz?

1. good buu was beaten, not majin buu, by kid buu. Good buu was nothing but south supreme kai, & grand supreme kai bound by buu type fusion. (much, mucch weaker fusion type than potara or dance, or namekian fusion). So, Kid buu beat the good buu because he's more likely powerful than the buu-type fusion of the 2 kais.
2. Original fat majin buu has two conflicts in his mind, one is evil (kid buu personality) , & other is good (grand supreme kai), so, he can't go full power in either mode, neither good, nor evil. This is why super buu, while being the same as fat buu, was stronger due to clear control by evil side of him.

@dawnone: Gogeta isn't canon.

@apex_pretador: thanks that always confused me

@hypnos0929: well, it is itself pretty weird.

Goku was lying when he said that. He admits to Piccolo that he just wanted the next generation to take care of the problem. DB Super and Daizenshuu actually clears everything up in plain language:

Also from Daizenshuu:

"Goku fought with the revived Buu. Goku tried to have the next generation resolve this problem, but in the end he was the one who defeated Buu, the strongest in the universe"

http://web.archive.org/web/20111103160539/http://kanzentai.com/trans-daiz02.php?m=05&id=human_drama#link

So Kid Buu was clearly labeled as the strongest in the universe when he was defeated and Goku was the strongest after Kid Buu was defeated.

Kid Buu wins handily.

He dies both times