SSJ Gogeta vs Gotenks-Boo

- Buu's fusion has no time limit

- Fight takes place in RoSaT

Hmm. Hes definitely stronger than Super Buu since Goku suggested to Vegeta that they perform the fusion dance inside Buu.

Vegito transformed straight away against Buuhan, which implies that he couldn't have fought him Base. He needed SSJ to ensure his superiority.

It is sated by old Kai that Potara is stronger than the fusion Dance

Vegito comments that he did not expect his power to be that much greater than Buuhan's and was surprised that he was dominating him as much as he was.

Gogeta absolutely destroys him. Gogeta laid the smack down on Jenemba. Also, Gegeta=Vegito, who easily wrecked a stronger Buuhan.

Only Ssj Gogeta?no Ssj2 or Ssj3?then i don't see him beating even SuperBoo who is inferior to BooGotenks

Stomping Janemba isn't an impressive feat,considering that,until the monster created the sword,there wasn't a clear winner in his skirmish with Goku,i mean maybe in the long run Janemba would win (h2h,no magic like he used in the movie)...but it wasn't a stomp in anyway whatsoever.

SuperBoo would one-shot Goku Ssj3,so the claims that Janemba is at that level are ludicrous

Gogeta Ssj >>>Janemba>Goku Ssj3...yeah,nothing that Gotenks Ssj2 couldn't achieve (Gotenks Ssj post RoSaT would fair a lot better than Ssj3 Goku,i dare to say even take some hard wins)

I see that the difference between Gogeta and Gotenks is proportionally the same that between Vegeta and Goten (the weakest in both fusions),and while i have no doubt that Vegeta is stronger than Goten,it's not by a huge margin (and i mean with this 5x or 10x).

So,let's say that Vegeta is 3x Goten..then Gogeta will be 3x Gotenks (not enough to beat even SuperBoo).You can say more,but 8x? (that will put Gogeta Ssj at the same power that Ssj3 Gotenks,and that will not be enough to beat BooGotenks)10x,15x?i know that Vegeta is superior to Goten,but not to that extent.At least that's how i see it and since Gogeta never appear in the manga,i can be convinced otherwise with enough evidence (stomping Janemba isn't one for the reasons given eralier)

Yes,but he intended to fight him only in Ssj?nothing suggest this.The fact that Gotenks could go Ssj3 while on their own (Goten and Trunks) could only achieve Ssj is a strong hint that Gogeta can easily go Ssj3 also.

Gogeta

I feel he would logically equal a hypothetical goku-gohan fusion dance(gokhan) who's ssj form is implied to be above buutenks

@parallax_hal_jordan: I hope you know that janemba wasnt at his full power against goku, this is shown when he powers up when gogeta appears (doesn't change anything, but still)

@parallax_hal_jordan

"Gogeta Ssj >>>Janemba>Goku Ssj3...yeah,nothing that Gotenks Ssj2 couldn't achieve (Gotenks Ssj post RoSaT would fair a lot better than Ssj3 Goku,i dare to say even take some hard wins)"

I dont see that happen. Those skirts would get wrecked. They fool around and cant take a fight seriously. Morover, SSJ3 Goku>>>SSJ Gotenks, so I doubt that.

"SuperBoo would one-shot Goku Ssj3,so the claims that Janemba is at that level are ludicrous"

This is baseless

1.Why would Ssj Gogeta be "logically equal" to Ssj Gokhan?Isn't one of their component obscenely stronger than the other? (Gohan-Vegeta),while the other remain the same (Goku)...that's anything but logical

2. Wasn't Gokhan base form (not Ssj) the one implied to be stronger than Bootenks?i remember Ro Kaio Shin saying that "he would not need the Ssj anyway" or something around those lines (it was the pothara union anyway,see point 3)

3.It was the union (pothara) who Ro Kaio was talking about,not the fusion dance...so where do you get your info about a Goku-Gohan fusion (dance)?

Hmmmm. I'd say Buutenks, in a utter stomp.

Beata

Gogeta does not fuck around. He'll speed blitz him as easily as he did to Janemba.

He isn't regenerating his soul.

@egwgrvebf: He can't destroy Buu thou.

Beata

@parallax_hal_jordan:

1. Because fusion dance is based on the weakest fighter

Gohan has to lower his power to goku

Goku and vegeta are equals

Gokhan = gogeta

2. Goku was thinking that the potara and fusion dance was the same thing power wise, that's when he asked if he needs ssj , he's basing it off of the fusion dance

And I know what elder kaioshin was talking about

3. Because again, goku was thinking that potara = dance at the moment and still asked whether or not ssj is needed, again, basing it off of the fusion dance, all he knows is that the potaras are more effective, it's not until goku asks about ssj that elder kaioshin basically says potara is JUST that powerful

I just took a look at the Fusion Reborn fights, and I definitely think Gogeta would win. Janemba and Buutenks are similar enough, SSJ3 Goku was able to survive against them both for a little while between his agility and tenacity, but ultimately he was clearly outmatched by them both. However, I do think Buutenks had him more outmatched. However, considering Gogeta was powerful enough to give Janemba one of the most firm stompings in the entire series, which is saying a lot, I think that more than makes up. Buuhan would likely be a closer match.

No DBZ Fusion Reborn viewers here I guess.Gogeta 1 shots with Stardust Breaker and turns Buu into Uub gg.Also Gogeta is way faster with his attacks so yeah..

@nickzambuto: @spyrite: Speed is nice, but Buu is just flatout more powerful than Gogeta and Janemba.

Super Buu at base form was far stronger than Full Power Goku. So adding Gotenks(And while bullcrap, is arguably stronger than Super Buu) and Piccolo is just too much for the fused Saiyans.

Beata

@spidey_jackson: What's stopping him from doing what he did to Janemba? Also guys when the Kai said the potara being stronger he was talking about the time limit.

@spyrite: Buu's Power level is much higher than Gogeta's. So even his strongest attacks won't be able to cause Buu serious harm.

And no he was not talking about the time limit.

Beata

Gogeta stomps.

And what makes you think that? I just made an explanation for why I think Gogeta is more powerful based on how they each perform against other characters, and your counter was just stating that Buu is more powerful. But... why?

Again, Goku by himself was able to survive against both Buutenks and Janemba, although ultimately they each had him outmatched. This would mean that Buutenks and Janemba are somewhat similar, although I do give Buu the edge because he seemed to have Goku slightly more outmatched. However, considering Gogeta gave Janemba one of the most firm stompings in the entire series, that should definitely make up. So basically,

Janemba > Goku

Gogeta >>> Janemba

Buutenks >> Goku

This means that Gogeta is still > Buutenks.

@nickzambuto: Why do i think Buu is more powerful? Because he is?

Base Super Buu>> Goku

Gotenks>> (Arguably) Goku

So essentially 2 people considerably more powerful than Goku, plus Piccolo, morph. Vegeta is considerably weaker than Goku. So i doubt the fusion did more than double Goku's power. There's no possible way Gogeta could stand a chance. Buu is roughly 2x stronger than he is!

Beata

@spidey_jackson

Buu's Power level is much higher than Gogeta's. So even his strongest attacks won't be able to cause Buu serious harm.

Not necessarily. Raditz was 3x stronger than Piccolo, and he was still killed by the SPC. Cell was also pretty heavily damaged by Goku's IT Kamehameha and Vegeta's Final Flash, both whom were considerably weaker.

@nickzambuto

Again, Goku by himself was able to survive against both Buutenks and Janemba, although ultimately they each had him outmatched.

Goku and Buutenks never fought.

Where was it ever stated that the Potara is stronger than the fusion dance?

That is all baseless speculation. They were the exact same power level by the time they fused.

If your logic were true, then Gotenks is merely double Goten's power, which we know is completely false.

Try again.

@akin: Well the difference in power between Goku and Raditz wasn't that big compared to Gogeta VS Buutenks. It was only a few hundreds separating Raditz and Piccolo. While with Buutenks, it was several millions.

And Cell was only at about 60% of power when he faced off against Vegeta and Goku. So them damaging him really isn't much.

Beata

Gogeta.The only Buu who could beat SSJ Gogeta is Gohan Buu

@solar_powered:

Exact same power level? That is a flatout lie. Goku could obtain SSJ3, Vegeta could not. So the gap between them is laughably huge. That's clear for anyone to see.

And even if Goku Merging with Vegeta did more than double his power, he's still not beating Buu. Sorry.

Beata

Gogeta stomps with his Star glitter.

@spidey_jackson: yes technically speaking, they were exact same power level

Base goku = base vegeta (which him and goku fused as)

The only difference is that goku has another transformation

Super Janemba was down right wrecking SSJ3 Goku.

SSJ3 Goku was holding his own against SSJ3 Buu.

Gogeta effortlessly stomped Janemba. I would assume a guy who can fodderize a demon who is above SSJ3 can wipe the floor with a being who was being held off by SSJ3.

@dbzk1999: Base strength? That is nothing.

Beata

@spidey_jackson: um, yes it is

Base strength - equal

If their base is equal, they'd equal in the same form

@dbzk1999: But Vegeta can't achievs SSJ3. So his max power is far weaker than Goku.

And since Goku at Max was a child to Buu, he would need to fuse with someone equal to him in power to stand a chance.

Beata

@spidey_jackson: no it's not, heck, BoG flat out rejects that notion

Vegeta couldn't achieve ssj3 because he

A) wasn't a dead body like goku was

B ) wasn't a fusion like gotenks

Goku only achieved ssj3 because he was in other world

I hope people know the fight between Goku and Buutenks was filler and non canon.In an actual fight,Goku would've been one shotted by accident by Buutenks

@dbzk1999: Your point? He's still stronger than Vegeta! Vegeta even admits it.

Beata

@spidey_jackson: my point is

Equal base = equal forms

If goku and vegeta are ssj, they're equal

If goku and vegeta were ssj2, they'd be equal

If vegeta had ssj3 and fought ssj3 goku, they'd still be equal

The power of the transformations multiplies the base of the saiyan

If the two are equal in base, they're ssj forms would multiply them by the same number and they'd still be equal

gogeta

@dbzk1999: I personally don't think they're equal even in base form.

But that's really just opnion.

Beata

@spidey_jackson: I don't see why you don't believe that

It's stated 2-3 times I believe

@dbzk1999: Mind sourcing that?

And going by the rest of the series, i don't think it's uncommon for me to assume Goku is stronger at base strength.

Beata

Because Goku is.Vegeta needed the Majin Charm to close the gap in their power

@spidey_jackson

Exact same power level? That is a flatout lie. Goku could obtain SSJ3, Vegeta could not. So the gap between them is laughably huge. That's clear for anyone to see.

Goku only surpasses Vegeta with SSJ3. Goku tells piccolo at the look at that he and Vegeta were evenly matched(as super saiyan 2s. They are at same level in equal forms.

Well the difference in power between Goku and Raditz wasn't that big compared to Gogeta VS Buutenks.

My example did not include Goku. He did not kill Raditz. I specifically mentioned Piccolo because he was able to kill Raditz with his SPC despite the 3x power gap.

It was only a few hundreds separating Raditz and Piccolo.

Piccolo was at 408. Raditz was at 1500. They were sperated by 1092.

While with Buutenks, it was several millions.

There are no official power levels after the Freeza arc, so we don't know how it would be translated into battle powers. All we know is that Buutenks was stronger. It is also worth mentioning that Gohan overpowered Buu's galactic donut and broke free.

And Cell was only at about 60% of power when he faced off against Vegeta and Goku. So them damaging him really isn't much.

It was never stated exactly how much power Cell was using. Moreover, he was using more power against Goku than he was against.

@spidey_jackson: @reaverlation:

Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P10.3-4, P11.2-3

Context: after Goku and Vegeta fight for a while

Goku: “Un-unbelievable…I thought I trained considerably in the afterlife…But we’re completely even

Chapter: 460 (DBZ 266), P10.2-3

Context: after Boo seems to be dead on arrival

Kaioshin: “Goku and Vegeta are probably having a roughly even fight…”

All I can think of so far

@dbzk1999: ...Because of the Majin Charm.

@reaverlation: that has any relevance to what I'm saying because?

Vegeta kept the power from the majin potential unlock

@dbzk1999: The relevance is that Vegeta needed the charm to close the gap.

Proof of that?

@reaverlation: and that has no relevance to what I'm saying

I'm saying that by the time goku and vegeta fused, they were equals

What you said literally does nothing to counter that, if anything, it supports it

Proof of what? That he kept the majin power up?

Maybe the fact that the charm itself and the boost were two seperate actions

Babidi just decided "while I'm controlling him, might as well unlock some of his potential also"

Saying vegeta lost that potential unlock is like saying gohan lost his after he died

@akin: I was talking about MAX power when i said Goku was stronger. Them being equal at base is highly debatable thou. At least IMO.

Raditz's was power level was 1200. Not 1500. So he was about 796 pts stronger. Eitherway, it's still a miniscule gap compared to the Buutenks vs Gogeta gap.

It's pretty obvious that gap was in the millions.

Cell at max power was nothing to SSJ2

Gohan. Even after powering up twice. So l assume, Cell had to have been using around 40-60% of power in his fights with Goku and Vegeta.

Beata

@dbzk1999: No they weren't equals.

Yes proof if it wasn't any clearer.

The Majin Charm and the Old Kai's ritual are different.

Sound logic, but you're not taking into account the boost granted by fusion itself. It isn't just Goku plus Vegeta, their powers are increased exponentially, and the fact that they're rivals and capable of filling in each other's gaps like yin and yang only serves to enhance that further.

Goten and Trunks were both weaker than Vegeta. If fusion just adds power levels, then Gotenks at SSJ2 wouldn't come close to Vegeta at SSJ2, yet Gotenks was expected to beat Fat Buu at SSJ1.

Again, looking at easily Gogeta outmatched Janemba, I can't picture Buu beating him, unless you think that Buu has Janemba unbelievably outclassed as well, but then how was Goku able to survive against him?

Buu is stronger than Janemba, but not by that much. Gogeta was way WAY stronger than Janemba. Hence, Gogeta beats Buutenks.

Step up your game SON!

And what's wrong with filler? It isn't non canon, it's two separate universes. That's why OPs should always specify whether we're using anime or manga versions, but since this thread revolves around an anime-exclusive character (Gogeta) obviously we need to go by the anime.