#251 Edited by jashro44 (22796 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: And Flash states in the battle that the Demon is unable to act while he was fighting and mind controlling at the same time so no the Demon wasn't in control

No he said he was inside with the demon and he was unable to do anything. He then states he isn't sure if its the symbiote, the demon, or both thats fighting the U-foes....

#252 Posted by Bankai (4 posts) - - Show Bio

can you add iorn spiderman?

#253 Posted by OreoAssassin (5472 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: The Demon was not in full control nor was it fighting the U-Foes. Have you ever seen The Demon before ? (A lot of people don't lol) I'll post a scan but it's Venoms with devil horns and a pretty good size too lol. He states he was unsure but it was the symbiote because

1. Apperance didn't change

2. (SPOILERS) The symbiote states that he is keeping the Demon away so it's never fully been out.

As for the End of The World I don't know but it's certainly dangerous if he's supposed to replace Mephisto.

#254 Posted by OreoAssassin (5472 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: And no he hasn't done it too anyone skilled but hear me out. The symbiote can control by a simple touch as seen in the scans. It works by the same generally concept as Venom controlling a host but to a smaller degree. In theory, he could do it to anyone that doesn't have a resistance to some sort of mind control.

#255 Posted by jashro44 (22796 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: The Demon was not in full control nor was it fighting the U-Foes. Have you ever seen The Demon before ? (A lot of people don't lol) I'll post a scan but it's Venoms with devil horns and a pretty good size too lol. He states he was unsure but it was the symbiote because

1. Apperance didn't change

2. (SPOILERS) The symbiote states that he is keeping the Demon away so it's never fully been out.

As for the End of The World I don't know but it's certainly dangerous if he's supposed to replace Mephisto.

All right.

@jashro44: And no he hasn't done it too anyone skilled but hear me out. The symbiote can control by a simple touch as seen in the scans. It works by the same generally concept as Venom controlling a host but to a smaller degree. In theory, he could do it to anyone that doesn't have a resistance to some sort of mind control.

Thats not even the issue...He has only controlled like what 10 guys? And you don't know if he is going to end up controlling anyone of worth...If all he does is control people like tim drake, catman, and damian its not going to matter if he controls them or not.

Besides this was a one time thing. The symbiote seems to prefer alternate methods anyways.

#256 Posted by OreoAssassin (5472 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Symbiotes are always full of suprises:) and yes the mind control is a wild card he could get someone like Deathstroke and Batman or get Penguin and Ridler. But no matter what he's going to gain some allies to benefit his team. And if Flash sees his best friend Peter die what do you think he's going to do? RAGGGGEEEE!!! And yes a one time thing but he could always do it again and he only did that because he needed to. The U-Foes are a Hulk threat and a Avenegers threat and fighting them single handily is pretty darn good feat even if he did fall short at the end. Even the UFoes were suprised by him.

#257 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20387 posts) - - Show Bio

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: How does Kaine go into his "Other" form? Could he do it at anytime or...?

He only went into "The Other" mode once, and it was a special occasion. Kaine does have elements of "The Other" after the initial transformation though.

#258 Edited by OreoAssassin (5472 posts) - - Show Bio

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: What provoked the special occasion and could he go into again? It would pretty helpful here lol. People are underestimating Kaine. Bloodlusted with his knives things? He could run up and down having them drop like flies

#259 Edited by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20387 posts) - - Show Bio

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: What provoked the special occasion and could he go into again? It would pretty helpful here lol. People are underestimating Kaine. Bloodlusted with his knives things? He could run up and down having them drop like flies

He was attacked by two werewolves, and he had the upper hand, until he held back with his "no killing" morals. He was pretty much beaten to near-death after that, and went into a cocoon state. Inside he was having a conversation with "The Other". Either release his inner animal or die in the cocoon due to his injuries. His "stingers" are available even without "The Other". He uses it frequently, especially against symbiotes.

#260 Posted by jashro44 (22796 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Symbiotes are always full of suprises:) and yes the mind control is a wild card he could get someone like Deathstroke and Batman or get Penguin and Ridler. But no matter what he's going to gain some allies to benefit his team. And if Flash sees his best friend Peter die what do you think he's going to do? RAGGGGEEEE!!!

Right so we can say that in some scenarios he wont use the mind control ability and in some scenarios he does use it he can end up with some useless people. It doesn't seem totally trust worthy and I don't think thats enough.

@jashro44: And yes a one time thing but he could always do it again and he only did that because he needed to. The U-Foes are a Hulk threat and a Avenegers threat and fighting them single handily is pretty darn good feat even if he did fall short at the end. Even the UFoes were suprised by him.

Point being is its not really something the symbiote does in character.

#261 Edited by OreoAssassin (5472 posts) - - Show Bio
#262 Posted by OreoAssassin (5472 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Why did he do it in the first place? Because he saw he was outnumbered against a massive team of dangerous people. He played it smart and took over there goons to benefit himself. Venom has insane durability regardless of anything.

#263 Edited by jashro44 (22796 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Why did he do it in the first place? Because he saw he was outnumbered against a massive team of dangerous people. He played it smart and took over there goons to benefit himself. Venom has insane durability regardless of anything.

Why didn't he just do that against red hulk? Or just use some of the super villains near by against taskmaster (Admittedly the taskmaster moment is PIS but the point is he never attempted mind control when he was out matched)? That wasn't the first time venom was out matched.

I never doubted his durability but again some people here have sonics and fire based weapons.

#264 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20387 posts) - - Show Bio
#265 Edited by Deathstroke19 (3799 posts) - - Show Bio

@oreoassassin: ok i left this thread for a bit but now I'm back but i remember when i left cable extreme questioned you cause your the creator of the thread but your completely biased to the spider team. You then replied "And I'm not biased Im just a huge Venom fan and I'm pointing out evidence. If I do sound bias I apologize." So i accepted that and thought you would start stating the evidence for the street levelers but you didn't and you kept arguing how great the spiders are and how powerful kaine is and how venom can survive this. So my question is: when r u going to defend the street levelers seeing as how your just stating evidence? Not trolling just wondering. Oh and i know i posted my response to the battle already but so i don't have to go back 3 pages i say street levelers 9/10 only because the spiders have venom which i think could possibly possibly possibly win. (3 possibly's = not likely)

#266 Edited by OreoAssassin (5472 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Hulks healing factor rejects the Symbiote and the symbiote lashed onto Rulk and lead him into a gas station to explode. And every hero or villain gains new abilities there was no true reasoning to Venom gaining that even the UFoes were suprised an remarked how Venom had never done that before.

#267 Posted by jashro44 (22796 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Hulks healing factor rejects the Symbiote and the symbiote lashed onto Rulk and lead him into a gas station to explode. And every hero or villain gains new abilities there was no true reasoning to Venom gaining that even the UFoes were suprised an remarked how Venom had never done that before.

I didn't read the entirety of circle of four but I know the event ends with rulk rider bonded to the symbiote briefly.

Again the issue is its not something he does often. I am not saying can't I am saying he wont. And I all ready said it probably wont be that helpful with all those people around.

#268 Posted by OreoAssassin (5472 posts) - - Show Bio

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: Thanks a lot! : @deathstroke19: I don't understand how I'm biased as a creator. If someone made this thread I would put my same reasoning into everything. I created this thread because I thought the Team could do it I'm not being biased it would be the same if another person created the thread.

#269 Posted by OreoAssassin (5472 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: It's 6 against hundreds and hundreds any ally would be somewhat helpful especially if he gets someone with higher skills like Deathstroke but that's a big IF. anyone would be somewhat useful

#270 Posted by jashro44 (22796 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: It's 6 against hundreds and hundreds any ally would be somewhat helpful especially if he gets someone with higher skills like Deathstroke but that's a big IF. anyone would be somewhat useful

As you said getting someone he needs is a big IF. He could get someone useless....

And he has only done this once...

#271 Posted by OreoAssassin (5472 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Ok we agree he could do this but it COULD be useful. With no way of assuming who he gets, and we can't just factor it out. Let's say 2 people out of 10 he gets are useful maybe? I still don't see anyone defeating Venom and if you prove to me they could then prove how the Demon wouldn't finish the job.

#272 Edited by HtG (131 posts) - - Show Bio

Ok we agree he could do this but it COULD be useful. With no way of assuming who he gets, and we can't just factor it out. Let's say 2 people out of 10 he gets are useful maybe? I still don't see anyone defeating Venom and if you prove to me they could then prove how the Demon wouldn't finish the job.

Isn't he weak against sonics and at least somewhat vulnerable to fire? Black Canary, Yao Fei, Vox, Vibe (If street level, idk much about him), there are a lot of low level sonics in DC. Heat Wave's fire can probably burn him too.

#273 Posted by OreoAssassin (5472 posts) - - Show Bio

@htg: Symbiotes are weak from Sonics and Extreme Heat. Venom (Flash Thompson) has showed incredible durability and some durability for sonics and heat. He was shot by 3 explosive arrows and a sonic arrow which he quickly healed from. Also Constrictors electricity also had little affect.

#274 Edited by DireDrill (2447 posts) - - Show Bio

@oreoassassin: Penance Stare is a magic attack that has specific requirements to even function correctly. Joker Venom is a chemical attack designed to kill everything it can get into. Comparing Penance Stare to Joker Venom is like comparing Kryptonite to Adamantium.

#275 Posted by IRS (457 posts) - - Show Bio

Couldn't Clayface alone take on everyone but the symbiote since they don't know his weakness?

Regardless, one thing I do like about this thread is that it shows the wide ranging definition of "street level". We might want to work on actually defining what our weight classes are.

#276 Posted by OreoAssassin (5472 posts) - - Show Bio

B

U

M

P

#277 Posted by OreoAssassin (5472 posts) - - Show Bio

And if your are reading all the posts take away everything said about Venom and the Demon factor

#278 Edited by GraniteSoldier (8466 posts) - - Show Bio

Spiders. I don't know if people realize this but at a certain point numbers hurt you, not help. How can 30-50 (however many street level guys DC has) effectively fight 5 people? You can surround and isolate, but you're either taking them on 1-5 at a time (which the Spiders will win) or running over each other to get to them (in which case the Spiders win). Most of the big attacks that might hurt Flash Thompson (like Canary's Cry) will take out everyone around him too, not to mention he's shown fantastic fire/sonic durability. Spiders have the mobility advantage in the city, as well as the fact that the Spiders can effective one hit 90% of the DC team since their bloodlusted. Hell, Flash sliced up Carnage and Human Fly, he could probably make two big arm swords and cut down multiple people at once.

I am going team Spiders 7/10, too many people on DC's team to fight effectively, and they aren't going to survive too many bloodlusted blows from any of these guys. Peter, Flash, and Kaine being the MVPs.

#279 Edited by Wolverine08 (43593 posts) - - Show Bio

DC fighters.

Spider-Man and the rest of his clan are honestly some of the most overrated street levelers. Well, Peter especially.

Online
#280 Posted by oblivion360 (123 posts) - - Show Bio

Spiders. I don't know if people realize this but at a certain point numbers hurt you, not help. How can 30-50 (however many street level guys DC has) effectively fight 5 people? You can surround and isolate, but you're either taking them on 1-5 at a time (which the Spiders will win) or running over each other to get to them (in which case the Spiders win). Most of the big attacks that might hurt Flash Thompson (like Canary's Cry) will take out everyone around him too, not to mention he's shown fantastic fire/sonic durability. Spiders have the mobility advantage in the city, as well as the fact that the Spiders can effective one hit 90% of the DC team since their bloodlusted. Hell, Flash sliced up Carnage and Human Fly, he could probably make two big arm swords and cut down multiple people at once.

I am going team Spiders 7/10, too many people on DC's team to fight effectively, and they aren't going to survive too many bloodlusted blows from any of these guys. Peter, Flash, and Kaine being the MVPs.

#281 Edited by DarkYautja (7 posts) - - Show Bio

Aren't the Flash rogues street level? Wouldn't that mean Captain Cold solos via Cold Field? (p.s. Bump :P)

#282 Posted by jashro44 (22796 posts) - - Show Bio

Aren't the Flash rogues street level? Wouldn't that mean Captain Cold solos via Cold Field? (p.s. Bump :P)

No...But the DC heroes do win here.

#283 Edited by dcandmarvel (731 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkyautja: no He isn't a street leveler

But these street-levelers can turn the fight in their favor just by themselves

Captain Boomerang

Promethium

Mr Freeze

Poison Ivy

Deathstroke

Deadshot

Creeper

Cassandra Cain

#284 Posted by OreoAssassin (5472 posts) - - Show Bio

Damn i was pretty ignorant when i first joined Comicvine

#285 Posted by Bat_Girl_CC (2751 posts) - - Show Bio

#This is Pre-New-52 right?

DC team stoms!

Black Canary kills the symbiontes with one single massive Canary Cry.

Meanwhile, the other street levelers "hold off" the rest of the spiders team...for Azrael, Batman, Cassandra Cain, Deathstroke, Lady Shiva and Richard Dragon, to seal the deal.

#286 Posted by Bat_Girl_CC (2751 posts) - - Show Bio

Or if you want to get nasty...Mister Freeze and Poison Ivy, slaughter them all.

#287 Posted by HeraldofGanthet (3609 posts) - - Show Bio

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek:

Bro Karate Kid fought Superman and held his own. That isn't street-level...at least not by my definition.

The streets of Olympus or New Genesis, maybe (LOL)!!!

#288 Posted by OreoAssassin (5472 posts) - - Show Bio
#289 Posted by dondave (38464 posts) - - Show Bio

DC

#290 Posted by jashro44 (22796 posts) - - Show Bio
#291 Posted by chaos911 (2564 posts) - - Show Bio

Spiders put up one hell of a fight before being overwhelmed.

#292 Edited by BeaconofStrength (5961 posts) - - Show Bio

DC stomps. Numbers alone could possibly overwhelm them.

#293 Posted by Jonez120 (4711 posts) - - Show Bio

DC 10/10

#294 Edited by DarthAznable (7496 posts) - - Show Bio

Smh

#295 Edited by robertloucksjr (1775 posts) - - Show Bio

Creeper could probably take a Spider by his lonesome with his healing factor, plus Spidey strength, and laugh. Of course, he is not a streel leveler either.

#296 Posted by OreoAssassin (5472 posts) - - Show Bio

@darthaznable: Why you shaking your head is something wrong? :p

#297 Posted by The_Man_With_Questions (791 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Dextersinister defines this thread best. An "almighty stomp"

#298 Posted by senglord (1568 posts) - - Show Bio

Dead man and Zatanna would wreak almighty havoc on the Spider team.

Max Lord and other controllers would also beast the Spider team. Doctor Phosphorous and a LOT of street level energy projectors would tear up the Spiders if they go all out. Canary at MAX power can solo. Pre 52 has better scream feats than New 52, and she could destroy a country amped.

I do wonder if this were limited to peak humans if there would be any chance at all. I think not.

#299 Posted by jashro44 (22796 posts) - - Show Bio

@senglord said:

Dead man and Zatanna would wreak almighty havoc on the Spider team.

Max Lord and other controllers would also beast the Spider team. Doctor Phosphorous and a LOT of street level energy projectors would tear up the Spiders if they go all out. Canary at MAX power can solo. Pre 52 has better scream feats than New 52, and she could destroy a country amped.

I do wonder if this were limited to peak humans if there would be any chance at all. I think not.

Some of these characters aren't street level to be fair.

#300 Posted by robertloucksjr (1775 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@senglord said:

Dead man and Zatanna would wreak almighty havoc on the Spider team.

Max Lord and other controllers would also beast the Spider team. Doctor Phosphorous and a LOT of street level energy projectors would tear up the Spiders if they go all out. Canary at MAX power can solo. Pre 52 has better scream feats than New 52, and she could destroy a country amped.

I do wonder if this were limited to peak humans if there would be any chance at all. I think not.

Some of these characters aren't street level to be fair.

Yeah, not many possessing ghosts and near reality warpers qualify as street.