#1 Edited by 18hunt (2893 posts) - - Show Bio

Spiderman believes thy killed Black Cat and Mary Jane! And he has on sybiote. In the forest. Spidey bloodlusted.

No prep.

In New York park forest

#2 Posted by BigCimmerian (8018 posts) - - Show Bio

Bloodlusted Spiderman is really dangerous and I think he could win, but it will be hard, he wins 6/10.

#3 Posted by 18hunt (2893 posts) - - Show Bio

What I thought

#4 Edited by AllStarSuperman (21376 posts) - - Show Bio

spiderman 6-7/10

#5 Edited by laflux (15059 posts) - - Show Bio

Spider-Man could win, but I'd favor the team. Can be convinced either way though.

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#6 Posted by 18hunt (2893 posts) - - Show Bio

Since there is no adamantium in their stomach and Spidey knows them (Wolvie) well, a hard kick to the gut should stall them and hurt them a ton! Or he could rip them in half (he's done it before, I mean bloodlusted/angry Peter has made his fist bloody by hitting hulk so hard. He can even Hirt hulk

#7 Posted by Immortal777 (7258 posts) - - Show Bio

Spiderman could win a majority with webs.

#8 Posted by beautifulrevery (1505 posts) - - Show Bio

Spiderman absolutely destroys them 8/10 times.

#9 Edited by Strman123 (193 posts) - - Show Bio

Spidey has stalemated the whole X-men and defeated Wolfy on plenty of occasions he has this in the bag!

#10 Posted by 18hunt (2893 posts) - - Show Bio

Mmmhmmmm

#11 Posted by Shawnbaby (10592 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm a pretty big Spider fan and all...but there's no way he stomps this. Also, The Symbiote did nothing for Spider-Man's stats....all it did for him was give him a quick costume change and nearly limitless webbing. I really wish people would finally learn that.

I'm going with the team here.

#12 Posted by Super_SoldierXII (6233 posts) - - Show Bio

La sigh.

#13 Posted by cfrehse (1004 posts) - - Show Bio

@shawnbaby: the symbiote enhances a persons abilities. It makes a human as strong as spidey as venom so it def makes spidey stronger. Spidey took on one of the worthy for a while and pheonix colossus. When he doesnt hold back he is crazy strong. I think its 50/50 in the battle not a stomp like u said.

#14 Edited by Shawnbaby (10592 posts) - - Show Bio

@cfrehse said:

@shawnbaby: the symbiote enhances a persons abilities. It makes a human as strong as spidey as venom so it def makes spidey stronger. Spidey took on one of the worthy for a while and pheonix colossus. When he doesnt hold back he is crazy strong. I think its 50/50 in the battle not a stomp like u said.

While Spidey had the Symbiote it did nothing to enhance his Stats. It made Eddie as strong as Spidey because it had imprinted Spidey's abilities onto Brock.

#15 Posted by laflux (15059 posts) - - Show Bio

La sigh.

Problem Super_Soldier :P ?

@cfrehse said:

@shawnbaby: the symbiote enhances a persons abilities. It makes a human as strong as spidey as venom so it def makes spidey stronger. Spidey took on one of the worthy for a while and pheonix colossus. When he doesnt hold back he is crazy strong. I think its 50/50 in the battle not a stomp like u said.

Though this does make sigh just a bit TBH.

I think there is a bit of over hyping of Spider-Man, and combined with the false belief that the symbiote enhances Spider-Man makes a somewhat volatile situation.

This is a general point btw. Peter, even Bloodlusted and fighting to his best would lose to X-23, Sabretooth and Logan H2H. Heck Logan alone is a give or take battle. I do think Peter could win H2H against Sabretooth and X-23, but that's more because current Sabretooth is a jobber and X-23 isn't quite as skilled as her "father" and lacks Adamantuim in her bones.

In fact the only reason why I said Spider-Man could wins is that the symbiote gives unlimited webbing, which he could spam for and Incap victory. Only problem is, Bloodlusted Spider-Man is going to want to pummel these guys (and previous showings support this) rather than simply web them up. Honestly a serious, morals off Peter would do better, an even then victory is quite doubtful.

And yes this is coming from one of the bigger Spider-Man fans on the site

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#16 Edited by henrik (562 posts) - - Show Bio

Spider-man

#17 Posted by Super_SoldierXII (6233 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux:

You summed it up nicely. Bloodlusted, Parker's going to want to pummel these guys and will, most likely, forgo webbing (for the most part). Regardless, Creed's already broken free of the webbing and there is absolutely nothing to suggest he can't do so again - despite all the naysayers.

We almost need to specify "non-jobber" Creed in the OP these days though. As I still consider all "jobber" versions as inferior clones. The "real" Creed is somewhere still out there ... we haven't seen him since the Claremont days and this BECAUSE I SAID SO. Yes ... that's me retrofitting for Marvel in Comic Vine's battle forums. I'm making obsolete Creed's massacre at the hands of numerous writers over the last few decades, eradicating in one fell swoop the complete butchery of the onetime bad@ss character we all knew and loved to hate, Victor Creed, A.K.A "Sabretooth".

So yeah, the jobber versions are all clones dammit ... the real deal, the one who runs over Logan, two shot K.O's Marvel enhanced Rogue, and evokes terror in mutant-kind, that Creed, he's still out there, somewhere, waiting for capable creative talent to see him strike again!!

All that said, it would be floating Parker's boat, pure fanwankery (not beyond Yost though) and seriously seeing the ferals job, to have even a bloodlusted Spider-Man take down all three at once IMHO.

#18 Posted by Mortium (666 posts) - - Show Bio

Spider-Man wins, but he is injured. When he is mad he tears peoples faces off...

And easily lifts a train car...

And he is usually better fighting multiple enemies at once anyway.

If he needed a breather he could easily throw one or two of them a good distance away. So yeah, Spider-Man wins at least 7/10.

#19 Posted by Strider92 (16240 posts) - - Show Bio

La sigh.

What? You don't believe that Spider-man could beat 3 people who could most likely give him a challenge in a 1v1 situation!?

surprised patrick meme life of pi

#20 Edited by jashro44 (20545 posts) - - Show Bio

@super_soldierxii:

Regardless, Creed's already broken free of the webbing and there is absolutely nothing to suggest he can't do so again - despite all the naysayers.

I agree the team wins but I don't know if I can agree with this part. The webbing has also held down stronger people. The problem is it is really inconsistent.

@mortium:Your scans don't really prove anything. Tearing the faces off of people with healing factors isn't going to be a permenant solution (wolverine had his face blasted off by cyclops during schism and I think creed had his face blown off by deadpool before although I am unsure, X-23 has had her face burnned off before as well), lifting train car is cool however both wolverine and sabretooth can take a few punches from spider-man (not sure about X-23) and there claws mean they themselves can do some serious damage to spider-man, Fighting hand ninjas isn't really impressive wolverine does that all the time, your last scan is PIS. Reed has been able to take hits from namor and I am pretty sure he also tanked wolverines claws in enemy of the state. Spider-man really shouldn't be able to knock him out let alone one shot him.

#21 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

The symbiote costume won't be attributing anything to Peter's physical stats, only providing an unlimited supply of webbing and a limited camouflage ability which would be rendered useless due to the team's expert tracking abilities. Despite being blood-lusted, any attack that Peter lands won't have a lasting effect as they can recover quickly, Wolverine especially, and respond with a well timed, dangerous attack that could hinder Peter.

Team wins after a brutal fight.

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#22 Posted by laflux (15059 posts) - - Show Bio
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#23 Posted by mhanuroth (208 posts) - - Show Bio

spiderman wins he already beat all the x man in secret wars

#24 Posted by jashro44 (20545 posts) - - Show Bio

spiderman wins he already beat all the x man in secret wars

He didn't beat anyone. Wolverine did state he was lucky spider-man didn't attack them (or something along those lines) but he never actually defeated anyone.

#25 Edited by Strider92 (16240 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Yeah I can't quite understand why writers seem to like having Spider-man faceplant Wolverine into the floor:

Am I the only one who sees a trend developing here? Logic dictates:

Concrete floor>Wolverine!!!!!!

#26 Posted by Super_SoldierXII (6233 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44:

Problem is no one knows the upper limits to Creed's strength for sure. Modern handbooks have him at around 10 tons.

Creed tearing through the webbing confirms more than denies this. Creed tossing around Rogue effortlessly, tossing Wolverine clear through the roof of the X-mansion with one arm as though he weighed 3 pounds and not 300, effortlessly destroy boulders in a fight against Polaris, scrunching a cast iron dumbbell into a little ball as though it were little more than a paper cup - and what do all these strength feats have in common? Yeah, they're all classic Claremont Sabes.

Again, nothing save conjecture and opinion as to why Sabretooth cannot rip through the webbing. Problem is, he's done it and there's a lot more to suggest he can do it again.

#27 Posted by Super_SoldierXII (6233 posts) - - Show Bio

I think we need to differentiate the use of the term "defeat" with "avoid for a few panels, make the ferals look 'foolish' due to second to none avoidance and precog, then swing away into the night unscathed". Because in the latter scenario, the ferals are likewise fundamentally "unscathed". So how is that winning?

There's a huge distance to abridge between the two worlds. Parker can look good for a while, avoid the ferals, maybe even rough em up a bit ... maybe, just maybe, take one of them out (he's bloodlusted after all) - but flat out beat all three at once? While I can see a writer doing something silly like that ... doesn't make it the more probable outcome.

#28 Posted by TheBrownPowerRanger (94 posts) - - Show Bio

spidey has koed wolverine before. he's beaten the whole x-men team before. spiderman thrives when fighting multiple foes. He should be able to win.

#29 Edited by Super_SoldierXII (6233 posts) - - Show Bio

spidey has koed wolverine before. he's beaten the whole x-men team before. spiderman thrives when fighting multiple foes. He should be able to win.

And Wolverine's KO'd Spider-Man too. He's also pinned him no less than four times claws to face clearly holding the upper hand. Aside from temporarily webbing Logan up once, Spider-Man has only ONE strong showing against Logan - and that was SpOck, not Parker, and Wolverine didn't even pop his claws. All other showings don't terribly land in Parker's favor. As in, at all.

Again, he did not beat the whole X-Men team. He avoided them. Big difference.

#30 Posted by Mortium (666 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: He didn't one shot any of them, the point of the scan was to show that his to just jump from enemy to enemy and strike all of them before they could react. Reed saw him coming and knew he could not avoid it. And this battle he thinks they killed both MJ and Black Cat, the only way he would be more insanely angry is if they killed Aunt May and Gwen as well. He hardly uses a fraction of his full powers unless he is desperate or mad.

#31 Posted by tparks (4761 posts) - - Show Bio

Wolverine has taken a ton of hits from both the Hulk and the Juggernaut and has been able to keep fighting. Sabretooth can do the same thing. Probably not X-23.

I think the team's combined durability is going to prove too much for Spiderman. Also, while each of these characters tends to be loners, they have all been trained to fight as a team. They aren't going to try and solo Spiderman. That's a lot of claws working together.

I say the team wins 8/10.

#32 Posted by TheBrownPowerRanger (94 posts) - - Show Bio

@super_soldierxii: when did wolverine ever ko spiderman. And when they fight when has the battle ever been in his favor. Im not trying to sound like a ass. im just curious

#33 Posted by theDCkid (874 posts) - - Show Bio

Considering spiderman has disabled Wolverine without the symbiote, I think he can pull through in this fight. The forest does add a problem though as that is Wolverine/Sabertooth's element. I say Spiderman 6/10.

#34 Posted by 18hunt (2893 posts) - - Show Bio

Spider-Man is strong enough to hurt the hulk and he doesn't use adamantium blades! Yeah a kick to the stomach = major injury

#35 Edited by New_World_Order (12935 posts) - - Show Bio

Team.

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#36 Edited by 18hunt (2893 posts) - - Show Bio

Kamehameha at haters ---<==================D

#37 Edited by jashro44 (20545 posts) - - Show Bio

@mortium: Apologies for the late reply but I have been busy.

He didn't one shot any of them, the point of the scan was to show that his to just jump from enemy to enemy and strike all of them before they could react. Reed saw him coming and knew he could not avoid it.

Your right. I just looked at civil war (skimmed it) and reed was seen later on in the issue. Not that it matters. Reed isn't very fast to my knowledge. He is mostly a tank. Blitzing him isn't impressive.

And this battle he thinks they killed both MJ and Black Cat, the only way he would be more insanely angry is if they killed Aunt May and Gwen as well. He hardly uses a fraction of his full powers unless he is desperate or mad.

He has hit wolverine before as hard as he could and wolverine was fine.

Damn image uploader is uploading these scans backwards but....

@thedckid said:

Considering spiderman has disabled Wolverine without the symbiote, I think he can pull through in this fight. The forest does add a problem though as that is Wolverine/Sabertooth's element. I say Spiderman 6/10.

Peter isn't going to win this fight. Both sabretooth and wolverine have given Peter a challenge and X-23 is just a bonus.

#38 Edited by jashro44 (20545 posts) - - Show Bio

@18hunt said:

Spider-Man is strong enough to hurt the hulk and he doesn't use adamantium blades! Yeah a kick to the stomach = major injury

Spider-man can't hurt hulk.

#39 Edited by 18hunt (2893 posts) - - Show Bio

And yet he can, as stated in a Spider-Man official guide, and that time he was really angry and hit so hard he made his hands bleed, because of marry janes death, and hulk held back and mostly defended because of that, he was being sympathetic and then he left because of it.

#40 Posted by jashro44 (20545 posts) - - Show Bio

@18hunt said:

And yet he can, as stated in a Spider-Man official guide, and that time he was really angry and hit so hard he made his hands bleed, because of marry janes death, and hulk held back and mostly defended because of that, he was being sympathetic and then he left because of it.

No he can't. The spider-man official guide is wrong. Showings>>>Hand books. And yes I am aware of the circumstances which only support the notion that he can't hurt the hulk.

#41 Posted by 18hunt (2893 posts) - - Show Bio

Do you know which guide I'm talking about, my bro got a signed one from Stan lee FYI (just sayin) anyway Stan lee helped make it, it showed strength feats and him actually hurting the hulk (he pulled his hair and hurt him, didn't even punch), also I can't post pictures because I'm on my iPad, but check my latest pictures on my account, it is Spidey hurting hulk with a punch to the face.

#42 Posted by 18hunt (2893 posts) - - Show Bio

Also, I just downloaded more Spidey feats, and Hulk being sympathetic

#43 Posted by jashro44 (20545 posts) - - Show Bio

@18hunt said:

Do you know which guide I'm talking about, my bro got a signed one from Stan lee FYI (just sayin) anyway Stan lee helped make it, it showed strength feats and him actually hurting the hulk (he pulled his hair and hurt him, didn't even punch), also I can't post pictures because I'm on my iPad, but check my latest pictures on my account, it is Spidey hurting hulk with a punch to the face.

No I don't and I don't really care to be honest. Guides can and have been wrong. Stan Lee hasn't written comics in so long he doesn't know what the characters he created are truly capable of. He made these characters but other writers changed them.

As for the scan in your gallery that is from incredible hulk 349. In the same fight grey hulk made a comment how spider-man couldn't hurt him IIRC. Something along the lines of "you think your cute jumping around and kicking?" And then there is the fact grey hulk is significantly weaker then savage hulk.

#44 Edited by laflux (15059 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@18hunt said:

Do you know which guide I'm talking about, my bro got a signed one from Stan lee FYI (just sayin) anyway Stan lee helped make it, it showed strength feats and him actually hurting the hulk (he pulled his hair and hurt him, didn't even punch), also I can't post pictures because I'm on my iPad, but check my latest pictures on my account, it is Spidey hurting hulk with a punch to the face.

No I don't and I don't really care to be honest. Guides can and have been wrong. Stan Lee hasn't written comics in so long he doesn't know what the characters he created are truly capable of. He made these characters but other writers changed them.

As for the scan in your gallery that is from incredible hulk 349. In the same fight grey hulk made a comment how spider-man couldn't hurt him IIRC. Something along the lines of "you think your cute jumping around and kicking?" And then there is the fact grey hulk is significantly weaker then savage hulk.

Really Jash, its Stan freaking lee!!!!!!! Excelsior?

As for the points in question, I think I will break whether Spider-Man can hurt Hulk into two question. One, has Spider-Man hurt hulk, and two should Spider-Man hurt Hulk. And the answer to the first one is oui. Spider-Man staggered Classic hulk, long enough to wrap him in webbing (though Spider-Man said Banner doesn't reach full strength straight after transforming). Spider-Man also fought an Amped Hulk with the assistance of Doc Samson, and punches Hulk in nose before performing a suplex type move which sent him flying. Not only does this cause Hulk visible discomfort, but make Hulk angry enough to say he was going to tear Spider-Man into Pieces and eat him. Grey Hulk being hurt by Spider-Man redirecting the force of Fixit's blow in counter kick (using webbing), has already been addressed by you guys so I'll leave that one to rest :P. And in the issue were Peter thinks Hulk is responsible for Mary Jane's supposed death, Peter actually does hurt the hulk, the Hulk even states with surprise "Bug Man hurt Hulk". Perversely, this is before Spider-Man suspects the Hulk, although when he tries the same thing again, Peter actually hurts his hand. Then there is the instances of Cap and Spider-Man teaming up to defeat Hulk in a flashback where Spider-Man beats Rhino in a similar manner, and *shudders* the marvel knights fight were Spider-Man's blows do hurt Hulk and he K.O'es him by getting him to run into a truck :/

As for the second question, the answer is non. Spider-Man hurting Hulk has been countered by just as many instances of him not being noticed by the Jade Giant, and even more cases of the Spider-Man failing to hurt less physically imposing people (Brock, Black Tarantula for example) as well people who are within the Hulk's pay grade (such as Hercules, when the two got into a dispute about Peter making out with Hebe).

Long story short, your both the winner :DD

Problem?

I hope this wall of text had enough usefulness to justify all the needless trolling and french.

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#45 Posted by jashro44 (20545 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux: I think when hulk commented "bug man hurt hulk" it was because spider-man slapped his ear. If I clap my hardest right next to your ear the noise hurts but it is no where near enough to knock you out. When spider-man staggered the hulk it was actually stated that hulk wasn't at full strength. As for professor hulk I think that was because he was savage banner. When professor hulk gets to angry he turns to savage banner and instead of getting stronger as he gets madder he gets weaker. Spider-mans tactic was to make hulk angry and when professor hulk gets to angry he turns to savage banner and gets weaker as he gets madder instead of stronger.

The cap instance and spider-man unlimited #11 are PIS. Spider-man has hurt hulk that much is true but he really shouldn't be able to is what I was trying to say.

#46 Posted by laflux (15059 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: It was Spider-Man unlimited? It has been a while since I read that issue, and in any case I think the major point of that fight was to prove how well Electro knew Spider-Man, though using Hulk as the whipping boy was idiotic. And as for the Spider-Man and Doc Samson vs Hulk fight, one, Spider-Man did that at the start of the fight, when Prof Hulk should be theoretically been strongest. Also, I remember the fight as Spider-Man and Doc Samson getting less effective as the fight went on, and Samson ending up defeated (as usual). I do have scans lying around somewhere, but in honesty, I'm probably derailing the thread enough as it is.

Though in essence I'm glad we are on the same page. It was just funny to see you say you didn't care for 18hunt's signed Spider-Man handbook. Its obvious that he took alot of pride over it. Not cool man :D

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#47 Posted by Mortium (666 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: I would rather not get into a nasty argument over this. I respect your opinion, but in mine Spider-Man is more than capable of doing serious damage by hitting Wolverine's soft spots. As for the non-addy Sabretooth and X-23, their entire bodies are soft spots for an angry Spidey. Like I said, that is my opinion and I do not expect anyone else to bow to it. And I am well aware that even if he won any of those fights, he would be injured.

#48 Posted by jashro44 (20545 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux: Spider-man unlimited #11 is the issue with electro yes. I think professor hulk was savage banner because he wasn't really speaking intelligently and was acting like a brute IIRC. That usually means he has become savage banner and is becoming weaker. I would rather chalk it up to hulk turning into savage banner then I would bad writing to be honest. Its possible he was stronger there but it makes more sense that he was weakened to the point spider-man could hurt him. I try to avoid using PIS as much as possible.

@mortium:All right. All though if I did sound nasty I apologize. It wasn't my intention.

#49 Edited by Mortium (666 posts) - - Show Bio
#50 Edited by jashro44 (20545 posts) - - Show Bio