<quote>WHAT?! Spiderman isn't faster then a bullet. And bullets can be dodged by almost any person in comics. ANd bullets go in a straight line that would make it easily for spidy to dodge. Make some sense here. </quote>
Spideys reflexes have always been written to be at peak bullet time. He dances around automatic gunfire on a consistent basis. You know, multiple bullets that each travel over the speed of sound? If you've never seen that happen, I'm skeptical as to your knowledge on the character and thinking your opinion stems from bias rather then fact. Naruto doesn't move anywhere close to that speed, he's never shown it. If he has, prove it.
<quote> he does have to have time...remember u can be Knockout and be awaken with the power... remember Sasuke piledrove him head first off a cliff full speed... spider-man doesnt win...the Fox can destory entire countries... its the strongest of all the tailed beast..</quote>
If he get's hit by Spiderman, he won't wake up. That entire fight was crap between the two considering Sasuke supposedly had the power to move at Lees speed, but didn't. How big is a "country" in the Narutoverse? In Marvel, the Fox Demons another Tuesday. The Fox demon is transported to Marvel U, what happens?
<quote>One could argue that Naruto can make a lot of clones (to keep pressure on Spiderman and hide his intentions) and use the Rasenshuriken, a wide AOE technique that destroys at a cellular level.</quote>
I' m not doubting the power of his techniques, he won't have the time to make seals or clones sunce he'd be ensnared in webbing. When was the Rasenshuriken considered AOE? He hit Itachi-clone with it dead on.
Spideys reflexes have always been written to be at peak bullet time. He dances around automatic gunfire on a consistent basis. You know, multiple bullets that each travel over the speed of sound? If you've never seen that happen, I'm skeptical as to your knowledge on the character and thinking your opinion stems from bias rather then fact. Naruto doesn't move anywhere close to that speed, he's never shown it. If he has, prove it.
Even Captain America dances around automatic gunfire on a constant basis. Gambit and many others as well. Heightened reaction and agility is a part of this, however, its also just understanding the simple concepts of a gun. This gun controls this much space. The attackers goal is to shoot me. Regular police officers and soldiers dodge bullets using this concept. In Spiderman's case, him dodging bullets is do to that concept, heightened agility (not bullet time), heightened reaction, and (most importantly) his spider sense.
You do not have to move at bullet speed to hit Spiderman. Here is a list of people who do not move at bullet speed that have tagged Spidey:
Chameleon (as a normal human without Kraven's potion)
Kraven the Hunter (slightly heightened attributes)
Captain America (peak human)
King Pin (normal human)
Typhoid/Bloody Mary (normal human with multiple personality disorder)
I can list a lot more than that. I believe 5 is enough to show that there is at least some sort of consistancy with Spiderman getting tagged by people who move way slower than bullet speed.
If he get's hit by Spiderman, he won't wake up. That entire fight was crap between the two considering Sasuke supposedly had the power to move at Lees speed, but didn't. How big is a "country" in the Narutoverse? In Marvel, the Fox Demons another Tuesday. The Fox demon is transported to Marvel U, what happens?
I wouldn't say "another Tuesday's". The Demon Fox is definitely above street level threat.
I' m not doubting the power of his techniques, he won't have the time to make seals or clones sunce he'd be ensnared in webbing. When was the Rasenshuriken considered AOE? He hit Itachi-clone with it dead on.
If you look at his battle with Kakuzu, the move demolished a very large portion of the land leaving a giant deep crater in the center.
As for the webbing, i'd say Naruto has a chance to use his seals before being webbed. How close are you assuming Spiderman is? I don't think Naruto would just stand their and ask for webbing. And he isn't exactly a slouch on agility and speed. Lets not forget about the replacement technique as well. Naruto has made hundreds of clones in less than 5 seconds.
"WHAT?! Spiderman isn't faster then a bullet. And bullets can be dodged by almost any person in comics. ANd bullets go in a straight line that would make it easily for spidy to dodge. Make some sense here. "
He has outrun bullets that were following him and dodged them as well multiple times. This was in the "The Other" run.
<quote>WHAT?! Spiderman isn't faster then a bullet. And bullets can be dodged by almost any person in comics. ANd bullets go in a straight line that would make it easily for spidy to dodge. Make some sense here. </quote>
Spideys reflexes have always been written to be at peak bullet time. He dances around automatic gunfire on a consistent basis. You know, multiple bullets that each travel over the speed of sound? If you've never seen that happen, I'm skeptical as to your knowledge on the character and thinking your opinion stems from bias rather then fact. Naruto doesn't move anywhere close to that speed, he's never shown it. If he has, prove it.
Just because he can dodge bullets doesn't make him faster then a bullet. That is called reflexes. One is able to dodge/evade certain things like bullets by moving away. Can Spidy outrun a train? I highly doubt that because Naruto seemed to do it.
<quote> he does have to have time...remember u can be Knockout and be awaken with the power... remember Sasuke piledrove him head first off a cliff full speed... spider-man doesnt win...the Fox can destory entire countries... its the strongest of all the tailed beast..</quote>
If he get's hit by Spiderman, he won't wake up. That entire fight was crap between the two considering Sasuke supposedly had the power to move at Lees speed, but didn't. How big is a "country" in the Narutoverse? In Marvel, the Fox Demons another Tuesday. The Fox demon is transported to Marvel U, what happens?
You make it sound like that punch would hurt him? From what i can tell, Naruto's current strength level is above 20 ton strength.
<quote>One could argue that Naruto can make a lot of clones (to keep pressure on Spiderman and hide his intentions) and use the Rasenshuriken, a wide AOE technique that destroys at a cellular level.</quote>
I' m not doubting the power of his techniques, he won't have the time to make seals or clones sunce he'd be ensnared in webbing. When was the Rasenshuriken considered AOE? He hit Itachi-clone with it dead on.
I really do hate it when people make claims like this. This is a ridiculous claim with no facts or proof behind it what so ever. Naruto could dodge it before the webbing even lands on him using various techniques. Heck, these guys dodge sharp knives and ninja stars on a regular basis. What's webbing in comparison? And your talking about the rasangan that is weaker then the one Kimi is talking about. There is a scan i posted some where showing a complete obliteration of Kazuka's body.
Also, from what i can tell, Spidy has been beaten by people much weather then himself. Punisher for one is a huge factor. And Naruto would pulverize him.
"WHAT?! Spiderman isn't faster then a bullet. And bullets can be dodged by almost any person in comics. ANd bullets go in a straight line that would make it easily for spidy to dodge. Make some sense here. "
He has outrun bullets that were following him and dodged them as well multiple times. This was in the "The Other" run."
I don't believe that. He can't even outrun a train.
"WHAT?! Spiderman isn't faster then a bullet. And bullets can be dodged by almost any person in comics. ANd bullets go in a straight line that would make it easily for spidy to dodge. Make some sense here. "
He has outrun bullets that were following him and dodged them as well multiple times. This was in the "The Other" run."
I believe that wasn't canon. Correct me if i'm wrong.
He also was able to catch one of the bullets with his hand.
"
Nothing but reaction time. This is like dodge ball. Just because you can dodge/evade or catch the ball, doesn't make you faster then the ball being thrown. This is the same concept behind bullets and guns in comics.
Yes one of the bullets did go through his hand and into his body. My point in even telling this was to show that he had durability against pointed, high velocity objects. Not to indicate speed.
Hell, I guess. I didn't look up bullet speed. It has already been indicated many times that he has the ability to move faster than the human eye can process plenty of times. I guess this just puts a actual number with that speed.
Weather he's faster then the speed of a bullet or not, he's still going to have trouble fighting against a thousand clones. And even if he destroys them, Naruto would just keep on replicating more clones to put pressure on him. And spiderman can't sense the real naruto because there would be danger all over him. Every punch coming from everywhere would alert him from his senses. And also, every clones he uses are of the real copy. Blood, smell, personality, fighting ability, etc etc. The clones bleed as well so i highly doubt Spiderman could sense the real Naruto. Very far fetched, especially since his spidy senses would warn him of every danger possible.
Also, his shadow clones have the ability to use rasanga as well as transforming technique. 200 clones transforms into a large tire sized ninja star and throws themselves at Spidy. A single mistake, and Spidy would lose. A rasangan could come from any where. Thats a one hit k.o.
Spidey can discern one level of danger from another so he could feel out which is the real Naruto. Mr. Fantastic speculated that his spidey sense is more of a precog, psy ability than a physical sense so the copied blood, smell, personality, and fighting ability wouldn't throw up a real block on finding Naruto. But you make some valid points. Isn't the making of the clones a taxing process that eventually wears him down? Isn't that why he can only make 1000?
"Spidey can discern one level of danger from another so he could feel out which is the real Naruto. Mr. Fantastic speculated that his spidey sense is more of a precog, psy ability than a physical sense so the copied blood, smell, personality, and fighting ability wouldn't throw up a real block on finding Naruto. But you make some valid points. Isn't the making of the clones a taxing process that eventually wears him down? Isn't that why he can only make 1000?"
But thats just it, i don't think the spidy sense can sense the real version because they are all the same. They are the exact copy down to the very last point. Just think of it this way. This is just like Spidy's clone. They have the same memories, personalities etc etc, yet they can think individually.
And making clones up to 15 is amazing within the ninja world because one has to split chakra evenly with the clones to do so. Heck, even the leader of the village, although too old to do battle, could only make 5 clones by splitting the chakra evenly. If you use too much chakra and bring too many clones, the technique would kill you. Naruto is a special case because he has tremendous amount of chakra. You really have to read the manga to understand it imo. Naruto splitting himself to make a thousand clones is just a record within the ninja world. Simply amazing and the sheer level of chakra needed to do it, would make Naruto very godly when it comes to chakra terms.
Heck, naruto could make his clones use techniques which causes chakra. Especially the rasangan, which causes to use up an enormous amount of chakra. Also, ninja characters can jump generally higher then Spiderman by using chakra to enhance the capabilities on the legs to go higher then spiderman. This is also used on the arms to punching someone, kicking something and various other ways to enhance ones body to do almost anything.
"Spidey can discern one level of danger from another so he could feel out which is the real Naruto. Mr. Fantastic speculated that his spidey sense is more of a precog, psy ability than a physical sense so the copied blood, smell, personality, and fighting ability wouldn't throw up a real block on finding Naruto. But you make some valid points. Isn't the making of the clones a taxing process that eventually wears him down? Isn't that why he can only make 1000?"
But thats just it, i don't think the spidy sense can sense the real version because they are all the same. They are the exact copy down to the very last point. Just think of it this way. This is just like Spidy's clone. They have the same memories, personalities etc etc, yet they can think individually.
And making clones up to 15 is amazing within the ninja world because one has to split chakra evenly with the clones to do so. Heck, even the leader of the village, although too old to do battle, could only make 5 clones by splitting the chakra evenly. If you use too much chakra and bring too many clones, the technique would kill you. Naruto is a special case because he has tremendous amount of chakra. You really have to read the manga to understand it imo. Naruto splitting himself to make a thousand clones is just a record within the ninja world. Simply amazing and the sheer level of chakra needed to do it, would make Naruto very godly when it comes to chakra terms.
Heck, naruto could make his clones use techniques which causes chakra. Especially the rasangan, which causes to use up an enormous amount of chakra. Also, ninja characters can jump generally higher then Spiderman by using chakra to enhance the capabilities on the legs to go higher then spiderman. This is also used on the arms to punching someone, kicking something and various other ways to enhance ones body to do almost anything.
"
I am ashamed at you for even mentioning the clone saga.
Yes. And on that note, why would they rewrite the best thing that ever happened to Spider-Man (Mary Jane) and leave the worst thing to ever hit Spider-Man comics (clone saga) as canon?
Well I don't really have an argument to counter the 1000 clones deal so until someone navigates that little obsticle, I am obligated to agree with you oldmagic.
Just because he can dodge bullets doesn't make him faster then a bullet. That is called reflexes. One is able to dodge/evade certain things like bullets by moving away. Can Spidy outrun a train? I highly doubt that because Naruto seemed to do it.
I didn't allude to him being faster then a bullet, he's reflexes are fast enough to dodge bullets. Yes or no, Naruto can hit someone who can dodge objects that fly over the speed of sound.
You make it sound like that punch would hurt him? From what i can tell, Naruto's current strength level is above 20 ton strength.
How's his strength going to help him hit what he can't touch? Contrarily, please explain how his strength helps him with his durability. Are you implying Naruto could take a hit from someone who can routinely lift cars? Has Naruto ever taken a hit from someone who can do that?
I really do hate it when people make claims like this. This is a ridiculous claim with no facts or proof behind it what so ever. Naruto could dodge it before the webbing even lands on him using various techniques. Heck, these guys dodge sharp knives and ninja stars on a regular basis. What's webbing in comparison? And your talking about the rasangan that is weaker then the one Kimi is talking about. There is a scan i posted some where showing a complete obliteration of Kazuka's body.
Do "sharp knives and ninja stars" equate widespread webbing that's as tough as steel? Off the top of my head Spideys webbing was 1. strong enough to immobilize Iron Man and prevent him from using his unibeam and 2. fling cars at Mr. Hide . Naruto cannot dodge a widespread webbing attack from a serious Spiderman or move once he's been caught, I don't care if he's summoned 1000 clones, they could all try to rip the webbing off the original, it wouldn't work and they'd *poof* eventually.
Also, from what i can tell, Spidy has been beaten by people much weather then himself. Punisher for one is a huge factor. And Naruto would pulverize him. You do not have to move at bullet speed to hit Spiderman. Here is a list of people who do not move at bullet speed that have tagged Spidey: Chameleon (as a normal human without Kraven's potion) Kraven the Hunter (slightly heightened attributes Captain America (peak human) King Pin (normal human) Typhoid/Bloody Mary (normal human with multiple personality disorder) I can list a lot more than that. I believe 5 is enough to show that there is at least some sort of consistancy with Spiderman getting tagged by people who move way slower than bullet speed.
Of course weaker people have beaten him, if he's serious and PIS didn't exist he'd blitz every antagonist in two pages. Yes or No, Can Punisher, Kingpin, Kraven, Chameleon, and Typhoid Mary take a solid hit from someone who routinely lifts tons? You kind of hurt your argument by bringing this up. Without PIS and if Spidey was Bloodlusted, meaning he wants to kill his antagonist, weaker characters that can't bullet time or lift tons soak a hit from peter, they would die losing limbs, or if everything's still attached, like, possibly Kingpin, die from internal bleeding and having your insides turned into beef stew.
Even Captain America dances around automatic gunfire on a constant basis. Gambit and many others as well. Heightened reaction and agility is a part of this, however, its also just understanding the simple concepts of a gun. This gun controls this much space. The attackers goal is to shoot me. Regular police officers and soldiers dodge bullets using this concept. In Spiderman's case, him dodging bullets is do to that concept, heightened agility (not bullet time), heightened reaction, and (most importantly) his spider sense.
Uhm, dodging a bullet after it's been fired from a gun is called bullet timing, dude. Lets not play semantics, please.
I wouldn't say "another Tuesday's". The Demon Fox is definitely above street level threat.
The Demon Fox is transported to New York and every Avenger past or present is their including Dr. Strange, what happens?
If you look at his battle with Kakuzu, the move demolished a very large portion of the land leaving a giant deep crater in the center. As for the webbing, i'd say Naruto has a chance to use his seals before being webbed. How close are you assuming Spiderman is? I don't think Naruto would just stand their and ask for webbing. And he isn't exactly a slouch on agility and speed. Lets not forget about the replacement technique as well. Naruto has made hundreds of clones in less than 5 seconds.
As per the OP, I'm assuming Naruto would be dodgine perception wide Webbing from at least a lamp posts height up. He uses the replacement technique, where's he going to appear that Spiderman won't sense?
Weather he's faster then the speed of a bullet or not, he's still going to have trouble fighting against a thousand clones. And even if he destroys them, Naruto would just keep on replicating more clones to put pressure on him. And spiderman can't sense the real naruto because there would be danger all over him. Every punch coming from everywhere would alert him from his senses. And also, every clones he uses are of the real copy. Blood, smell, personality, fighting ability, etc etc. The clones bleed as well so i highly doubt Spiderman could sense the real Naruto. Very far fetched, especially since his spidy senses would warn him of every danger possible.
Also, his shadow clones have the ability to use rasanga as well as transforming technique. 200 clones transforms into a large tire sized ninja star and throws themselves at Spidy. A single mistake, and Spidy would lose. A rasangan could come from any where. Thats a one hit k.o.
Why are you undermining the speed of multiple gunfire from automatic weapons from different areas? That's just like saying, "Whether Flash is faster then light or not, Captain Cold can still stop him because it's canon." Yes or no, Narutos clones move faster then bullets and are strong enough to rip webbing that's ensnared Iron Man. As for making a mistake, who is more likely to make a mistake, a character consistently written as a genius who's had 40+ years of comic history or Naruto? And, do shurikens, knives, kunai, or Narutos fists fly faster then bullets?
Just because he can dodge bullets doesn't make him faster then a bullet. That is called reflexes. One is able to dodge/evade certain things like bullets by moving away. Can Spidy outrun a train? I highly doubt that because Naruto seemed to do it.
I didn't allude to him being faster then a bullet, he's reflexes are fast enough to dodge bullets. Yes or no, Naruto can hit someone who can dodge objects that fly over the speed of sound.
If your playing that game, could Spiderman dodge a thousand punches coming at him all at the same time? I highly doubt it. There are no guns in naruto world and asking weather Naruto can dodge something like a bullet is a moot point. The fact that Naruto can run faster then a train should give me enough proof that he could dodge a bullet. There are allot of people that can dodge a bullet, cap america, Wolverine etc etc. So your argument is pretty weak. And if your saying that lower people like Punisher has beaten Spiderman and nothing but PIS, then there shouldn't even be a respect thread for people like Batman or Punisher. Why should there be? People respect such characters and then as i make a thread like this, people like you suddenly say it's nothing but PIS and shouldn't even be considered worthy.
Just look at this video at 3:10. His clones filled up the entire forest in that little scene. I highly doubt Spiderman can survive that that many people. Especially since this is coming from a 12 year old boy. Has Spiderman ever went against an army of one thousand clones by himself?
LegendaryKYJ said:
You make it sound like that punch would hurt him? From what i can tell, Naruto's current strength level is above 20 ton strength.
How's his strength going to help him hit what he can't touch? Contrarily, please explain how his strength helps him with his durability. Are you implying Naruto could take a hit from someone who can routinely lift cars? Has Naruto ever taken a hit from someone who can do that?
You make it sound as if Naruto can't tag spiderman. Did you forget that Naruto has clones? Any one of those numbers can touch him. Also, having the strength to lift cars would have to be proportionally be balanced along with durability. You ever weight lifted? Look at the body builders. Those guys have huge muscles. Along with great strength, they have muscles that gives them durability. That same thing applies with ninjas because they have been training there body from a young age. You can't have super strength without durability. Thats just stupid. That is what i mean. Naruto can lift something more then just cars.
LegendaryKYJ said:
I really do hate it when people make claims like this. This is a ridiculous claim with no facts or proof behind it what so ever. Naruto could dodge it before the webbing even lands on him using various techniques. Heck, these guys dodge sharp knives and ninja stars on a regular basis. What's webbing in comparison? And your talking about the rasangan that is weaker then the one Kimi is talking about. There is a scan i posted some where showing a complete obliteration of Kazuka's body.
Do "sharp knives and ninja stars" equate widespread webbing that's as tough as steel? Off the top of my head Spideys webbing was 1. strong enough to immobilize Iron Man and prevent him from using his unibeam and 2. fling cars at Mr. Hide . Naruto cannot dodge a widespread webbing attack from a serious Spiderman or move once he's been caught, I don't care if he's summoned 1000 clones, they could all try to rip the webbing off the original, it wouldn't work and they'd *poof* eventually.
You do realize that Naruto can use Replacing techniques to get away from the webs right? He can also go underground to escape from the webbing, also. Did you know he can do that? Also, you do realize that, summoning a thousand clones, Spiderman wouldn't know which the real one is, so saying Spiderman can web the real one is ridiculous. Not to mention the fact that he can use his clones as a shield, thus canceling out the webbing.
LegendaryKYJ said:
Even Captain America dances around automatic gunfire on a constant basis. Gambit and many others as well. Heightened reaction and agility is a part of this, however, its also just understanding the simple concepts of a gun. This gun controls this much space. The attackers goal is to shoot me. Regular police officers and soldiers dodge bullets using this concept. In Spiderman's case, him dodging bullets is do to that concept, heightened agility (not bullet time), heightened reaction, and (most importantly) his spider sense.
Uhm, dodging a bullet after it's been fired from a gun is called bullet timing, dude. Lets not play semantics, please.
heh, and there you have it folks. So you admit that people like Cap and others can dodge a bullet no? What makes you think that someone like Naruto, who is not only faster and stronger in every way possible, can't dodge a bullet?
I wouldn't say "another Tuesday's". The Demon Fox is definitely above street level threat.
The Demon Fox is transported to New York and every Avenger past or present is their including Dr. Strange, what happens?
What was the point of that statement? I don't understand.
If you look at his battle with Kakuzu, the move demolished a very large portion of the land leaving a giant deep crater in the center. As for the webbing, i'd say Naruto has a chance to use his seals before being webbed. How close are you assuming Spiderman is? I don't think Naruto would just stand their and ask for webbing. And he isn't exactly a slouch on agility and speed. Lets not forget about the replacement technique as well. Naruto has made hundreds of clones in less than 5 seconds.
As per the OP, I'm assuming Naruto would be dodgine perception wide Webbing from at least a lamp posts height up. He uses the replacement technique, where's he going to appear that Spiderman won't sense?
You do realize that Naruto can dodge higher right? Heck! He can jump higher then Spiderman can.
Weather he's faster then the speed of a bullet or not, he's still going to have trouble fighting against a thousand clones. And even if he destroys them, Naruto would just keep on replicating more clones to put pressure on him. And spiderman can't sense the real naruto because there would be danger all over him. Every punch coming from everywhere would alert him from his senses. And also, every clones he uses are of the real copy. Blood, smell, personality, fighting ability, etc etc. The clones bleed as well so i highly doubt Spiderman could sense the real Naruto. Very far fetched, especially since his spidy senses would warn him of every danger possible.
Also, his shadow clones have the ability to use rasanga as well as transforming technique. 200 clones transforms into a large tire sized ninja star and throws themselves at Spidy. A single mistake, and Spidy would lose. A rasangan could come from any where. Thats a one hit k.o.
Why are you undermining the speed of multiple gunfire from automatic weapons from different areas? That's just like saying, "Whether Flash is faster then light or not, Captain Cold can still stop him because it's canon." Yes or no, Narutos clones move faster then bullets and are strong enough to rip webbing that's ensnared Iron Man. As for making a mistake, who is more likely to make a mistake, a character consistently written as a genius who's had 40+ years of comic history or Naruto? And, do shurikens, knives, kunai, or Narutos fists fly faster then bullets?
So your going by saying that Spiderman has a longer history then Naruto?! What kind of debating skills is that?! Thats like saying Superman is the best fighter in the world because he has been around since....well, he was the first comic book hero to come out. And did you not forget? Sasuke is a genius. Kakashi is a genius and a very cunning warrior. Itachi is a genius. Madara is a genius. Spiderman is a genius? so what?! Naruto has faced genius before and came out on top. Do you even read the manga?! Or at least watch the show?! Saying Spiderman is a genius is a pure PISS way of trying to back up your argument in this debate.
Just because he can dodge bullets doesn't make him faster then a bullet. That is called reflexes. One is able to dodge/evade certain things like bullets by moving away. Can Spidy outrun a train? I highly doubt that because Naruto seemed to do it.
When has Naruto ever outrun a train? Was it in the Manga? Has he displayed that kind of speed in fights? Was that train traveling faster then a bullet?
If your playing that game, could Spiderman dodge a thousand punches coming at him all at the same time? I highly doubt it. There are no guns in naruto world and asking weather Naruto can dodge something like a bullet is a moot point. The fact that Naruto can run faster then a train should give me enough proof that he could dodge a bullet. Yes or no, Naruto's clones can transcend the speed of sound. There are allot of people that can dodge a bullet, cap america, Wolverine etc etc. So your argument is pretty weak. And if your saying that lower people like Punisher has beaten Spiderman and nothing but PIS, then there shouldn't even be a respect thread for people like Batman or Punisher. Why should there be? People respect such characters and then as i make a thread like this, people like you suddenly say it's nothing but PIS and shouldn't even be considered worthy.
You didn't answer my question: Yes or No, Can Punisher, Kingpin, Kraven, Chameleon, and Typhoid Mary take a solid hit from someone who routinely lifts tons?
Just look at this video at 3:10. His clones filled up the entire forest in that little scene. I highly doubt Spiderman can survive that that many people. Especially since this is coming from a 12 year old boy. Has Spiderman ever went against an army of one thousand clones by himself?u
It might as well be a thousand Juggernauts, they're not going to touch him. I need an explanation as to Narutos speed other then "He can outrun a train, so he should be able to dodge bullets," that's rediculous. Are you alluding to said train traveling past the speed of sound?
You make it sound like that punch would hurt him? From what i can tell, Naruto's current strength level is above 20 ton strength.
How's his strength going to help him hit what he can't touch? Contrarily, please explain how his strength helps him with his durability. Are you implying Naruto could take a hit from someone who can routinely lift cars? Has Naruto ever taken a hit from someone who can do that?
You make it sound as if Naruto can't tag spiderman. Did you forget that Naruto has clones? Any one of those numbers can touch him. Also, having the strength to lift cars would have to be proportionally be balanced along with durability. You ever weight lifted? Look at the body builders. Those guys have huge muscles. Along with great strength, they have muscles that gives them durability. That same thing applies with ninjas because they have been training there body from a young age. You can't have super strength without durability. Thats just stupid. That is what i mean. Naruto can lift something more then just cars.
Why are yougiving Naruto extra powers that he's never displayed before. Body builders accumulate mass from muscular tissue tearing and healing itself into stronger forms, what does that have to do with this? What's the strongest attack baseline Naruto has ever taken? It's funny how Naruto can be cut and knocked unconscious, but somehow he's got advanced durability.
LegendaryKYJ said:
I really do hate it when people make claims like this. This is a ridiculous claim with no facts or proof behind it what so ever. Naruto could dodge it before the webbing even lands on him using various techniques. Heck, these guys dodge sharp knives and ninja stars on a regular basis. What's webbing in comparison? And your talking about the rasangan that is weaker then the one Kimi is talking about. There is a scan i posted some where showing a complete obliteration of Kazuka's body.
Do "sharp knives and ninja stars" equate widespread webbing that's as tough as steel? Off the top of my head Spideys webbing was 1. strong enough to immobilize Iron Man and prevent him from using his unibeam and 2. fling cars at Mr. Hide . Naruto cannot dodge a widespread webbing attack from a serious Spiderman or move once he's been caught, I don't care if he's summoned 1000 clones, they could all try to rip the webbing off the original, it wouldn't work and they'd *poof* eventually.
You do realize that Naruto can use Replacing techniques to get away from the webs right? He can also go underground to escape from the webbing, also. Did you know he can do that? Also, you do realize that, summoning a thousand clones, Spiderman wouldn't know which the real one is, so saying Spiderman can web the real one is ridiculous. Not to mention the fact that he can use his clones as a shield, thus canceling out the webbing.
Kawarimi no jutsu works by replacing the body with another object, and even Kakashi hasn't been able to leave a 20-30 foot radius after using it... so he can replace himself (using a technique he never uses) and simultaneously create 1000 clones? How would he dig through the concrete as per the OPs scenario? Naruto's clones dissapear when hit, why would't they dissapear when Spidey's moving faster then each clone can react while spreading the area with webbing strong enough to tie down Iron Mans class 80 armor? Is he going to somehow forget he can bullet time and throw 15-20 ton punches in the span it takes for Naruto to come up with a plan of attack?
Even Captain America dances around automatic gunfire on a constant basis. Gambit and many others as well. Heightened reaction and agility is a part of this, however, its also just understanding the simple concepts of a gun. This gun controls this much space. The attackers goal is to shoot me. Regular police officers and soldiers dodge bullets using this concept. In Spiderman's case, him dodging bullets is do to that concept, heightened agility (not bullet time), heightened reaction, and (most importantly) his spider sense.
Uhm, dodging a bullet after it's been fired from a gun is called bullet timing, dude. Lets not play semantics, please.
heh, and there you have it folks. So you admit that people like Cap and others can dodge a bullet no? What makes you think that someone like Naruto, who is not only faster and stronger in every way possible, can't dodge a bullet?
You're outright warping manga continuity. By your logic, Cassandra Cain, Batgirl, has dodged snipe rifle fire, bullets fired point blank by several different people aiming at her, and automatic fire would be able to be beaten by Naruto because he's supposedly outrun a train and can dodge kunai and shurikens... People who have been written consistently to have dodged bullets would get hit by Naruto somehow with reasons you have yet to explain. I need to hear your explaination as to how throwing stars equate to over 700-1500 mph traveling bullets, please.
If you look at his battle with Kakuzu, the move demolished a very large portion of the land leaving a giant deep crater in the center. As for the webbing, i'd say Naruto has a chance to use his seals before being webbed. How close are you assuming Spiderman is? I don't think Naruto would just stand their and ask for webbing. And he isn't exactly a slouch on agility and speed. Lets not forget about the replacement technique as well. Naruto has made hundreds of clones in less than 5 seconds.
As per the OP, I'm assuming Naruto would be dodgine perception wide Webbing from at least a lamp posts height up. He uses the replacement technique, where's he going to appear that Spiderman won't sense?
You do realize that Naruto can dodge higher right? Heck! He can jump higher then Spiderman can.
I'm extremely skeptical of this. I don't know how high spidey can jump off the top of my head, but saying he can "dodge higher" is kind of broad.
Weather he's faster then the speed of a bullet or not, he's still going to have trouble fighting against a thousand clones. And even if he destroys them, Naruto would just keep on replicating more clones to put pressure on him. And spiderman can't sense the real naruto because there would be danger all over him. Every punch coming from everywhere would alert him from his senses. And also, every clones he uses are of the real copy. Blood, smell, personality, fighting ability, etc etc. The clones bleed as well so i highly doubt Spiderman could sense the real Naruto. Very far fetched, especially since his spidy senses would warn him of every danger possible.
Also, his shadow clones have the ability to use rasanga as well as transforming technique. 200 clones transforms into a large tire sized ninja star and throws themselves at Spidy. A single mistake, and Spidy would lose. A rasangan could come from any where. Thats a one hit k.o.
Why are you undermining the speed of multiple gunfire from automatic weapons from different areas? That's just like saying, "Whether Flash is faster then light or not, Captain Cold can still stop him because it's canon." Yes or no, Narutos clones move faster then bullets and are strong enough to rip webbing that's ensnared Iron Man. As for making a mistake, who is more likely to make a mistake, a character consistently written as a genius who's had 40+ years of comic history or Naruto? And, do shurikens, knives, kunai, or Narutos fists fly faster then bullets?
So your going by saying that Spiderman has a longer history then Naruto?! What kind of debating skills is that?! Thats like saying Superman is the best fighter in the world because he has been around since....well, he was the first comic book hero to come out. And did you not forget? Sasuke is a genius. Kakashi is a genius and a very cunning warrior. Itachi is a genius. Madara is a genius. Spiderman is a genius? so what?! Naruto has faced genius before and came out on top. "
Wow, of all of the things to pick apart of that entire rebuttal, that was the only thing you found. You said "A single mistake, and Spidy would lose. A rasangan could come from any where. Thats a one hit k.o. "I was alluding to you implying Naruto would have to exploit the mistake of someone having been written as a genius for a very long time, but you've somehow neglected the content, and the answer would be I'd count on Spidey stuffing Naruto full of steel hard webbing over him making a mistake of being taken by surprise by the OPs scenario. Wow, Plot devices and PIS is how Naruto's won each of his fights, every opponent you just mentioned was being watered down to make him appear more powerful for story enrichment, unless you really believe Sasuke was using Lees speed during their fight despite Lee actually displaying what his speed was with his Kimimaro fight, or Sakura and Kakashis capturing of the bells without plot device icha icha paradise.
Do you even read the manga?! Or at least watch the show?! Saying Spiderman is a genius is a pure PISS way of trying to back up your argument in this debate.
Contarily, do you even read Spiderman? My guess is no, since you believe he can't dodge bullets (or somehow think bullets are supposed to travel slower in comics unless the bullets a train, in which case, said train travels as fast as a bullet). Or for that matter, do you believe in science and logic since you equate a train and someone who's never shown speed anywhere near the speed of sound let alone the speed of a bullet tagging someone who senses high caliber sniper rounds going off. More so, claiming Narutos got enhanced durability or can hit someone dodging said speed without proof is naive and fanboyish.
Just because he can dodge bullets doesn't make him faster then a bullet. That is called reflexes. One is able to dodge/evade certain things like bullets by moving away. Can Spidy outrun a train? I highly doubt that because Naruto seemed to do it.
When has Naruto ever outrun a train? Was it in the Manga? Has he displayed that kind of speed in fights? Was that train traveling faster then a bullet?
It's in a movie. And if not, you believe that is not canon, then i can just say, 12 year old Lee is faster then Spiderman.
If your playing that game, could Spiderman dodge a thousand punches coming at him all at the same time? I highly doubt it. There are no guns in naruto world and asking weather Naruto can dodge something like a bullet is a moot point. The fact that Naruto can run faster then a train should give me enough proof that he could dodge a bullet. Yes or no, Naruto's clones can transcend the speed of sound.
Yes or No, can Spiderman move faster then Lee? And you completely disregarded what i have said.
There are allot of people that can dodge a bullet, cap america, Wolverine etc etc. So your argument is pretty weak. And if your saying that lower people like Punisher has beaten Spiderman and nothing but PIS, then there shouldn't even be a respect thread for people like Batman or Punisher. Why should there be? People respect such characters and then as i make a thread like this, people like you suddenly say it's nothing but PIS and shouldn't even be considered worthy.
You didn't answer my question: Yes or No, Can Punisher, Kingpin, Kraven, Chameleon, and Typhoid Mary take a solid hit from someone who routinely lifts tons?
Why should i answer such a question? The answer is obvious so answering would be pointless. And yet again you completely ignored what i have said.
Just look at this video at 3:10. His clones filled up the entire forest in that little scene. I highly doubt Spiderman can survive that that many people. Especially since this is coming from a 12 year old boy. Has Spiderman ever went against an army of one thousand clones by himself?u
It might as well be a thousand Juggernauts, they're not going to touch him. I need an explanation as to Narutos speed other then "He can outrun a train, so he should be able to dodge bullets," that's rediculous. Are you alluding to said train traveling past the speed of sound?
So your saying that, Spiderman can fight against a thousand clones? All by himself? Also, i am saying that Spiderman has the reflex to dodge bullets. I never said anything about his speed. Spiderman could not outrun a bullet. That is impossible for him. He can only dodge it. And i am not alluding anything. I am simply saying that Naruto can dodge bullets seeing as someone like Cap or Batman has been doing it most of there lives. Why shouldn't naruto?
You make it sound like that punch would hurt him? From what i can tell, Naruto's current strength level is above 20 ton strength.
How's his strength going to help him hit what he can't touch? Contrarily, please explain how his strength helps him with his durability. Are you implying Naruto could take a hit from someone who can routinely lift cars? Has Naruto ever taken a hit from someone who can do that?
You make it sound as if Naruto can't tag spiderman. Did you forget that Naruto has clones? Any one of those numbers can touch him. Also, having the strength to lift cars would have to be proportionally be balanced along with durability. You ever weight lifted? Look at the body builders. Those guys have huge muscles. Along with great strength, they have muscles that gives them durability. That same thing applies with ninjas because they have been training there body from a young age. You can't have super strength without durability. Thats just stupid. That is what i mean. Naruto can lift something more then just cars.
Why are yougiving Naruto extra powers that he's never displayed before. Body builders accumulate mass from muscular tissue tearing and healing itself into stronger forms, what does that have to do with this? What's the strongest attack baseline Naruto has ever taken? It's funny how Naruto can be cut and knocked unconscious, but somehow he's got advanced durability.
The same goes for Spiderman. Spiderman has been knocked unconscious or beaten by lesser people like Punisher. And i'm not giving extra powers to naruto at all. How can i, if it's canon? It's shown in the manga.
LegendaryKYJ said:
I really do hate it when people make claims like this. This is a ridiculous claim with no facts or proof behind it what so ever. Naruto could dodge it before the webbing even lands on him using various techniques. Heck, these guys dodge sharp knives and ninja stars on a regular basis. What's webbing in comparison? And your talking about the rasangan that is weaker then the one Kimi is talking about. There is a scan i posted some where showing a complete obliteration of Kazuka's body.
Do "sharp knives and ninja stars" equate widespread webbing that's as tough as steel? Off the top of my head Spideys webbing was 1. strong enough to immobilize Iron Man and prevent him from using his unibeam and 2. fling cars at Mr. Hide . Naruto cannot dodge a widespread webbing attack from a serious Spiderman or move once he's been caught, I don't care if he's summoned 1000 clones, they could all try to rip the webbing off the original, it wouldn't work and they'd *poof* eventually.
You do realize that Naruto can use Replacing techniques to get away from the webs right? He can also go underground to escape from the webbing, also. Did you know he can do that? Also, you do realize that, summoning a thousand clones, Spiderman wouldn't know which the real one is, so saying Spiderman can web the real one is ridiculous. Not to mention the fact that he can use his clones as a shield, thus canceling out the webbing.
Kawarimi no jutsu works by replacing the body with another object, and even Kakashi hasn't been able to leave a 20-30 foot radius after using it... so he can replace himself (using a technique he never uses) and simultaneously create 1000 clones? How would he dig through the concrete as per the OPs scenario? Naruto's clones dissapear when hit, why would't they dissapear when Spidey's moving faster then each clone can react while spreading the area with webbing strong enough to tie down Iron Mans class 80 armor? Is he going to somehow forget he can bullet time and throw 15-20 ton punches in the span it takes for Naruto to come up with a plan of attack?
Kakashi has shown to use the kawarimi technique with actual people like a shadow clone from one of Naruto. 20-30 foot radius?! Where did you get that? There is no facts or anything like that said so in the manga. And i was making a point about naruto's underground technique. So your saying that, a thousand clones, Spiderman can take all of them out? Without even getting tagged once? Thats just pure pis. And now, you are just making ridiculous claims that are really out of this world. And lastly, just because Spiderman has the reaction speed to evade or dodge bullets doesn't make him fast as a bullet. You are being ridiculous. Also, each clones has an individual personality that can think on it's own. They can make plans, think up strategies on ways to take him down etc etc.
Does anyone here seriously think that Spiderman can go toe to toe against a thousand clones by himself?! Especially if one of them tags him with a rasangan and Explosives kuni's.
Even Captain America dances around automatic gunfire on a constant basis. Gambit and many others as well. Heightened reaction and agility is a part of this, however, its also just understanding the simple concepts of a gun. This gun controls this much space. The attackers goal is to shoot me. Regular police officers and soldiers dodge bullets using this concept. In Spiderman's case, him dodging bullets is do to that concept, heightened agility (not bullet time), heightened reaction, and (most importantly) his spider sense.
Uhm, dodging a bullet after it's been fired from a gun is called bullet timing, dude. Lets not play semantics, please.
heh, and there you have it folks. So you admit that people like Cap and others can dodge a bullet no? What makes you think that someone like Naruto, who is not only faster and stronger in every way possible, can't dodge a bullet?
You're outright warping manga continuity. By your logic, Cassandra Cain, Batgirl, has dodged snipe rifle fire, bullets fired point blank by several different people aiming at her, and automatic fire would be able to be beaten by Naruto because he's supposedly outrun a train and can dodge kunai and shurikens... People who have been written consistently to have dodged bullets would get hit by Naruto somehow with reasons you have yet to explain. I need to hear your explaination as to how throwing stars equate to over 700-1500 mph traveling bullets, please.
Again, just because Spiderman can dodge bullets doesn't make him faster then the freaking bullet! How many times do i have to address this?!
If you look at his battle with Kakuzu, the move demolished a very large portion of the land leaving a giant deep crater in the center. As for the webbing, i'd say Naruto has a chance to use his seals before being webbed. How close are you assuming Spiderman is? I don't think Naruto would just stand their and ask for webbing. And he isn't exactly a slouch on agility and speed. Lets not forget about the replacement technique as well. Naruto has made hundreds of clones in less than 5 seconds.
As per the OP, I'm assuming Naruto would be dodgine perception wide Webbing from at least a lamp posts height up. He uses the replacement technique, where's he going to appear that Spiderman won't sense?
You do realize that Naruto can dodge higher right? Heck! He can jump higher then Spiderman can.
I'm extremely skeptical of this. I don't know how high spidey can jump off the top of my head, but saying he can "dodge higher" is kind of broad.
Weather he's faster then the speed of a bullet or not, he's still going to have trouble fighting against a thousand clones. And even if he destroys them, Naruto would just keep on replicating more clones to put pressure on him. And spiderman can't sense the real naruto because there would be danger all over him. Every punch coming from everywhere would alert him from his senses. And also, every clones he uses are of the real copy. Blood, smell, personality, fighting ability, etc etc. The clones bleed as well so i highly doubt Spiderman could sense the real Naruto. Very far fetched, especially since his spidy senses would warn him of every danger possible.
Also, his shadow clones have the ability to use rasanga as well as transforming technique. 200 clones transforms into a large tire sized ninja star and throws themselves at Spidy. A single mistake, and Spidy would lose. A rasangan could come from any where. Thats a one hit k.o.
Why are you undermining the speed of multiple gunfire from automatic weapons from different areas? That's just like saying, "Whether Flash is faster then light or not, Captain Cold can still stop him because it's canon." Yes or no, Narutos clones move faster then bullets and are strong enough to rip webbing that's ensnared Iron Man. As for making a mistake, who is more likely to make a mistake, a character consistently written as a genius who's had 40+ years of comic history or Naruto? And, do shurikens, knives, kunai, or Narutos fists fly faster then bullets?
So your going by saying that Spiderman has a longer history then Naruto?! What kind of debating skills is that?! Thats like saying Superman is the best fighter in the world because he has been around since....well, he was the first comic book hero to come out. And did you not forget? Sasuke is a genius. Kakashi is a genius and a very cunning warrior. Itachi is a genius. Madara is a genius. Spiderman is a genius? so what?! Naruto has faced genius before and came out on top. "
Wow, of all of the things to pick apart of that entire rebuttal, that was the only thing you found. You said "A single mistake, and Spidy would lose. A rasangan could come from any where. Thats a one hit k.o. "I was alluding to you implying Naruto would have to exploit the mistake of someone having been written as a genius for a very long time, but you've somehow neglected the content, and the answer would be I'd count on Spidey stuffing Naruto full of steel hard webbing over him making a mistake of being taken by surprise by the OPs scenario. Wow, Plot devices and PIS is how Naruto's won each of those scenarios, every opponent you just mentioned was being watered down to make him appear more powerful for story enrichment, unless you really believe Sasuke was using Lees speed during their fight despite Lee actually displaying what his speed was with his Kimimaro fight, or Sakura and Kakashis capturing of the bells without plot device icha icha paradise.
Wow?! Watered down?! PIS?! give me an example of this and i may concede. Also, you say Naruto's enemies are complete pis? While you are completly disregarding the fact that Spiderman has been taken down by people like Punisher, you regard to the enemies of Naruto's who has been watered down to his level. When has this happened?
Do you even read the manga?! Or at least watch the show?! Saying Spiderman is a genius is a pure PISS way of trying to back up your argument in this debate.
Contarily, do you even read Spiderman? My guess is no, since you believe he can't dodge bullets. Or for that matter, do you believe in science and logic since you equate a train and someone who's never shown speed anywhere near the speed of sound let alone the speed of a bullet tagging someone who senses high calibur sniper rounds going off. More so, claiming Narutos got enhanced durability or can hit someone dodging said speed without proof is naive and fanboyish.
"
"I said i believe Spiderman CAN"T outrun a bullet. I never said anything about Spiderman can't dodge bullets. When did i say that? You know what? You assume that i'm a fanboyish while here you are defending Spiderman, saying Spiderman can take down a thousand clones all by himself. Now that's fanboyish. DO you realize...no, comprehend how many a thousand that is? A thousand is the LEAST! Naruto can make much more. Let me give you an example.
How many leaves are in a tree? Because from an oak tree, there are at least over 200 000 leaves. Naruto can make that many clones and here is the scan to prove it. I highly doubt, Spiderman can beat over a hundred thousand clones.
It's in a movie. And if not, you believe that is not canon, then i can just say, 12 year old Lee is faster then Spiderman.
You’re trying to setup a strawman fallacy and diverting from the topic at hand, this isn’t a race between any of the three mentioned. This is simple, can Naruto or anything in Naruto minus maybe the fourth hokage transend the speed of sound?
Yes or No, can Spiderman move faster then Lee? And you completely disregarded what i have said. And lastly, just because Spiderman has the reaction speed to evade or dodge bullets doesn't make him fast as a bullet. Again, just because Spiderman can dodge bullets doesn't make him faster then the freaking bullet! How many times do i have to address this?! I said i believe Spiderman CAN"T outrun a bullet. I never said anything about Spiderman can't dodge bullets. When did i say that? You know what? You assume that i'm a fanboyish while here you are defending Spiderman, saying Spiderman can take down a thousand clones all by himself.
I’m going to take that as a ‘no’ nothing in Naruto can move at that speed, and no one in Naruto can dodge anything moving that fast. As for your question which I’m not going to ignore like you ignored mine. Since Lee has never demonstrated that kind of speed or reflexive action before, no, Lee cannot dodge bullets or hit Spiderman. I did not “disregard what you said” since you tried to setup a logical fallacy comparing running speed to reaction time speed, you claimed,”The fact that Naruto can run faster then a train should give me enough proof that he could dodge a bullet.” “ No, it’s not proof, since, last I checked, trains do not break the sound barrier.
You didn't answer my question: Yes or No, Can Punisher, Kingpin, Kraven, Chameleon, and Typhoid Mary take a solid hit from someone who routinely lifts tons?
Why should i answer such a question? The answer is obvious so answering would be pointless. And yet again you completely ignored what i have said.
So that’s a no, therefore, Spiderman not killing them with his punches is PIS (Plot induced Stupidity). Naruto doesn’t have superhuman durability, so he can be killed if Spidey decided to kill him.
Just look at this video at 3:10. His clones filled up the entire forest in that little scene. I highly doubt Spiderman can survive that that many people. Especially since this is coming from a 12 year old boy. Has Spiderman ever went against an army of one thousand clones by himself?
It might as well be a thousand Juggernauts, they're not going to touch him. I need an explanation as to Narutos speed other then "He can outrun a train, so he should be able to dodge bullets," that's ridiculous. Are you alluding to said train traveling past the speed of sound? You’re warping that video as well, “the entire forest?” Replay that video and tell me and everyone else how many you can count, please.
So your saying that, Spiderman can fight against a thousand clones? All by himself?
Given the evidence that none of his clones can punch faster then bullets, yes, he can fight a thousand Naruto bunshins without being hit. He’s got steel tough webbing he can spray, his spider sense, super strength, agility, perfect balance, and as per THE OP (YOU), the city of New Yorks buildings and home advantage.
Also, i am saying that Spiderman has the reflex to dodge bullets. I never said anything about his speed. Spiderman could not outrun a bullet. That is impossible for him. He can only dodge it. And i am not alluding anything. I am simply saying that Naruto can dodge bullets seeing as someone like Cap or Batman has been doing it most of there lives. Why shouldn't naruto?
Uhm, Captain America has shown bullet timing feats, Naruto hasn’t. What’s so hard about that concept? Naruto can’t dodge objects that fly the SOS at him, he’s not fast enough, making fallacious claims comparing a train to a bullet will not change that.
The same goes for Spiderman. Spiderman has been knocked unconscious or beaten by lesser people like Punisher.
Again, PIS, go read the rules of the forum. Unless you believe Punisher can really tank hits from Spiderman, which I’m thinking you don’t as per your last post, you won’t bring this up again since it would be trolling.
And i'm not giving extra powers to naruto at all. How can i, if it's canon? It's shown in the manga.
You know what’s also in the Manga? Sasuke not using Rock Lees speed in the Naruto fight, Itachi being uber powerful despite his ailments and donating some of his power to Naruto and still almost killing Sasuke, Rock Lee not outright KOing Gaara given he had the speed and power to do so at any time… And, no, super durability is not canon, it’s a feat you made up to win this argument. His newly acquired strength is canon, not super durability out of thin air because you say so.
Kakashi has shown to use the kawarimi technique with actual people like a shadow clone from one of Naruto. 20-30 foot radius?!
Uhm, from the Manga. The first time team 7 grouped up he used Kawarimi multiple times to escape into nearby bushes, Sakura used it fighting the sound nin in the chuunin exams and didn’t dissapear any farther then 10-20 feet each time. Kawarimi has limits as per the manga, it’s not a teleport anywhere jutsu.
Where did you get that? There is no facts or anything like that said so in the manga. And i was making a point about naruto's underground technique.
I thought you were trying to make a claim that Naruto could dig through concrete, since the OP (which is you) specified New York as the scenario.
So your saying that, a thousand clones, Spiderman can take all of them out? Without even getting tagged once? Thats just pure pis. And now, you are just making ridiculous claims that are really out of this world.
By this response, I’m inclined to believe you don’t know what PIS is, so here you go:
“PIS and CIS
These are terms commonly used on battle forums on other sites and most of us know what they mean. For those who don’t, PIS is “plot induced stupidity” and CIS is “character induced stupidity”. PIS/”jobbing” is when a character loses for the sake of plot despite the fact that they should be able to win. CIS is when a character loses because an aspect of the character (usually a lack of intelligence) gets in his own way. Superman losing to Batman would be PIS is most cases since Superman is perfectly capable of beating Batman in a number of ways before he can react. Sandman losing to Spider-Man is CIS because Sandman isn’t all that smart so Spider-Man, who is less powerful and should be easy to beat, can outsmart him and find victory.
Determining what is done for the plot and what is done because of the characters involved can be hard for some people. Superman is a prime case. In comics, Superman rarely uses his speed offensively.This is done for plot, to prolong the story and make it interesting (though it can also be said that it's a part of his character and not done solely because it benefits the story). In comics, Superman doesn’t kill. He does not spare his enemies because of the plot, he spares them because it’s part of his character not to kill thanks to how he was raised. In battles on the forum we include CIS, but not PIS, so Superman uses his speed but generally doesn’t kill unless otherwise stated. (“Bloodlust”)
This kind of gets into “bad writing”. It’s a term that gets thrown around a lot but one I don’t think always applies. Not every fight where the more powerful/capable character loses is bad writing. Situations can determine the winner just as much as the characters themselves so those should be taken into account before judging if a win “should” have happened or not. “
I feel stupid for arguing for a bloodlusted Spidey to win, but I still think a PIS/CIS fight he would still take the majority fights since he believes Naruto to be a thief, he’ll be webbed or KOed.
You are being ridiculous. Also, each clones has an individual personality that can think on it's own. They can make plans, think up strategies on ways to take him down etc etc.
Excuse me, I’m being plausible. Ridiculous is making comparisons to train and bullet speeds, or auto-durability with superstrength. Naruto has no knowledge of Spiderman, the same would go for Spidey, Naruto has no idea he's a statue to Spidey, not only that Naruto's sluggish, he doesn't have style, he brawls sloppily.
Does anyone here seriously think that Spiderman can go toe to toe against a thousand clones by himself?! Especially if one of them tags him with a rasangan and Explosives kuni's.
Kimimaro was able fight a substantial amount of clones without being hit, and he was much slower then Spiderman. Narutos a sloppy fighter, so by your logic, every clone is the same as the original, therefore every clone is as sluggish and stupid. Additionally, we’ve already determined Naruto being MUCH slower then Spiderman, what would he do with explosive Kunais and Rasengans? I’m guessing hope Spidey stands still long enough before swinging and leaping from building to building with a simultaneous spread of webbing Naruto can’t break.
Wow?! Watered down?! PIS?! give me an example of this and i may concede. Also, you say Naruto's enemies are complete pis? While you are completly disregarding the fact that Spiderman has been taken down by people like Punisher, you regard to the enemies of Naruto's who has been watered down to his level. When has this happened?
Do you even read the manga?! Or at least watch the show?! Saying Spiderman is a genius is a pure PISS way of trying to back up your argument in this debate.
I’ve given several examples and an explaination as to what PIS is since you didn’t read the forum rules, so I guess you’ll stop replying now.
Now that's fanboyish. DO you realize...no, comprehend how many a thousand that is? A thousand is the LEAST! Naruto can make much more. Let me give you an example.
How many leaves are in a tree? Because from an oak tree, there are at least over 200 000 leaves. Naruto can make that many clones and here is the scan to prove it. I highly doubt, Spiderman can beat over a hundred thousand clones.
First it was a thousand, now Naruto made exactly the amount of leaves on a tree. Tell me, when’s the last time Naruto summoned that many bunshins without getting tired? You're Naruto extra powers again. When's the last time he ever summoned that many in the series? You can no more claim Naruto summoning 200,000 clones then I can saying he didn’t just summon as much as he could, given continuity, is not 200,000 clones. So, for re-cap, fight is York city, where Spiderman has home turf advantage, his webbing, superior speed, and his spider sense. Naruto has his Bunshin and multiple-Rasengans, and is mistaken for a thief. A fight breaks out and Naruto uses kage bunshin to summon however many clones, which are practically statues to Spiderman since he knows what attack is coming on their first movements, uses his superior speed and widespread webbing, what happens?
it depends on wich naruto the older one is alot smarter and more powerful and he has gotten out of many excuse the pun "sticky" situations where he has been bound. great escape artest check.
It's in a movie. And if not, you believe that is not canon, then i can just say, 12 year old Lee is faster then Spiderman.
You’re trying to setup a strawman fallacy and diverting from the topic at hand, this isn’t a race between any of the three mentioned. This is simple, can Naruto or anything in Naruto minus maybe the fourth hokage transend the speed of sound?
"And here you are asking me a question where there is no answer to. And yet, here you are yet again, completely disregarding what i have said many times. If i were to answer your question, then do not disregard mine just so you can hear my answer.
Yes or No, can Spiderman move faster then Lee? And you completely disregarded what i have said. And lastly, just because Spiderman has the reaction speed to evade or dodge bullets doesn't make him fast as a bullet. Again, just because Spiderman can dodge bullets doesn't make him faster then the freaking bullet! How many times do i have to address this?! I said i believe Spiderman CAN"T outrun a bullet. I never said anything about Spiderman can't dodge bullets. When did i say that? You know what? You assume that i'm a fanboyish while here you are defending Spiderman, saying Spiderman can take down a thousand clones all by himself.
I’m going to take that as a ‘no’ nothing in Naruto can move at that speed, and no one in Naruto can dodge anything moving that fast. As for your question which I’m not going to ignore like you ignored mine, no, Lee cannot dodge bullets or hit Spiderman. I did not “disregard what you said” since you tried to setup a logical fallacy comparing running speed to reaction time speed, you claimed,”The fact that Naruto can run faster then a train should give me enough proof that he could dodge a bullet.” “ No, it’s not proof, since, last I checked, trains do not break the sound barrier.
And the last time i checked, humans shouldn't be able to dodge bullets or tag spiderman. Last time i checked, Spiderman has been taken down by normal humans with almost no enhancement. You can say that Naruto can't hit spiderman no matter how many clones he makes but that is false. Naruto is a ninja and from what i can tell what a ninja does, they are agile and stealthy, speedy and strong. Naruto can beat Death Stroke in a one on on combat. He can beat Captain America, Reed Richard, and many others. And from what i can understand, Spiderman is very limited to only his webbing and what he can think up to beat Naruto by using the environment around him.
You didn't answer my question: Yes or No, Can Punisher, Kingpin, Kraven, Chameleon, and Typhoid Mary take a solid hit from someone who routinely lifts tons?
Why should i answer such a question? The answer is obvious so answering would be pointless. And yet again you completely ignored what i have said.
So that’s a no, therefore, Spiderman not killing them with his punches is PIS (Plot induced Stupidity). Naruto doesn’t have superhuman durability, so he can be killed if Spidey decided to kill him.
Naruto doesn't have durability?! Thats quite a claim. And the fact that you completely disregard the fact that Spiderman has been beaten by lesser people is ridiculous. It's canon and yet you deny it shouldn't have happened. I don't know about you, but you make it sound like Spiderman has Punisher's personality? And, this is stated by Vine users but with prep, Death Stroke can take down Spiderman pretty easily. For a guy who can dodge bullets and pick up cars, here is a lesser man who can take down spiderman pretty easily with a little bit of prep. What's up with that?
Just look at this video at 3:10. His clones filled up the entire forest in that little scene. I highly doubt Spiderman can survive that that many people. Especially since this is coming from a 12 year old boy. Has Spiderman ever went against an army of one thousand clones by himself?
It might as well be a thousand Juggernauts, they're not going to touch him. I need an explanation as to Narutos speed other then "He can outrun a train, so he should be able to dodge bullets," that's ridiculous. Are you alluding to said train traveling past the speed of sound? You’re warping that video as well, “the entire forest?” Replay that video and tell me and everyone else how many you can count, please.
So your saying that, Spiderman can fight against a thousand clones? All by himself?
Given the evidence that none of his clones can punch faster then bullets, yes, he can fight a thousand Narutos without being hit. He’s got steel tough webbing he can spray, his spider sense, super strength, agility, perfect balance, and as per THE OP (YOU), the city of New Yorks buildings and home advantage.
Again, that's quite a claim. So, claiming that Naruto doesn't have any of those things, Spiderman can beat them?! Then how is it possible that Naruto can jump that high? From tree to tree with complete ease? Or get hit a giant snake that should have crushed him into powder? These scans show Naruto stopping a giant snake with brute strength alone.
meditating on top with the perfect equibrilium hundreds of feet in the air.
captionDurability
Basica rasangan - the top left panel Healing. A chidori right through his chest. This is Naruto at the age of 12, with no tail powerSuper speed - And funny enough, this is under water
Also, i am saying that Spiderman has the reflex to dodge bullets. I never said anything about his speed. Spiderman could not outrun a bullet. That is impossible for him. He can only dodge it. And i am not alluding anything. I am simply saying that Naruto can dodge bullets seeing as someone like Cap or Batman has been doing it most of there lives. Why shouldn't naruto?
Uhm, Captain America has shown bullet timing feats, Naruto hasn’t. What’s so hard about that concept? Naruto can’t dodge objects that fly the SOS at him, he’s not fast enough, making fallacious claims comparing a train to a bullet will not change that.
The same goes for Spiderman. Spiderman has been knocked unconscious or beaten by lesser people like Punisher.
Again, PIS, go read the rules of the forum. Unless you believe Punisher can really tank hits from Spiderman, which I’m thinking you don’t as per your last post, you won’t bring this up again since it would be trolling.
And i'm not giving extra powers to naruto at all. How can i, if it's canon? It's shown in the manga.
You know what’s also in the Manga? Sasuke not using Rock Lees speed in the Naruto fight, Itachi being uber powerful despite his ailments and donating some of his power to Naruto and still almost killing Sasuke, Rock Lee not outright KOing Gaara given he had the speed and power to do so at any time… And, no, super durability is not canon, it’s a feat you made up to win this argument. His newly acquired strength is canon, not super durability out of thin air because you say so.
First of all, what does that have to do with Itachi being uber powerful? From what i can understand, Itachi was on the side of Konoho the whole time, infiltrating Akatsuki. The fact that Itachi couldn't KO those konoho ninja's is pretty obvious, no? There on the same side.
Kakashi has shown to use the kawarimi technique with actual people like a shadow clone from one of Naruto. 20-30 foot radius?!
Uhm, from the Manga. The first time team 7 grouped up he used Kawarimi multiple times to escape into nearby bushes, Sakura used it fighting the sound nin in the chuunin exams and didn’t dissapear any farther then 10-20 feet each time. Kawarimi has limits as per the manga, it’s not a teleport anywhere jutsu.
And where did you get 10-20 feet from?! It never said so in the manga, so you just made up the numbers?
Where did you get that? There is no facts or anything like that said so in the manga. And i was making a point about naruto's underground technique.
I thought you were trying to make a claim that Naruto could dig through concrete, since the OP (which is you) specified New York as the scenario.
Could be possible, seeing as it is a technique rather then just digging a hole through the ground. The fact that Naruto can dig through the ground so fast during that puff of smoke, he not only managed to create a shadow clone to hide the hole, but he completely tricked Neji and KO'd him. Digging that large hole so fast and hard, isn't that minor supder strength? Or can humans dig a hole that fast during that puff of smoke?
So your saying that, a thousand clones, Spiderman can take all of them out? Without even getting tagged once? Thats just pure pis. And now, you are just making ridiculous claims that are really out of this world.
By this response, I’m inclined to believe you don’t know what PIS is, so here you go:
“PIS and CIS
These are terms commonly used on battle forums on other sites and most of us know what they mean. For those who don’t, PIS is “plot induced stupidity” and CIS is “character induced stupidity”. PIS/”jobbing” is when a character loses for the sake of plot despite the fact that they should be able to win. CIS is when a character loses because an aspect of the character (usually a lack of intelligence) gets in his own way. Superman losing to Batman would be PIS is most cases since Superman is perfectly capable of beating Batman in a number of ways before he can react. Sandman losing to Spider-Man is CIS because Sandman isn’t all that smart so Spider-Man, who is less powerful and should be easy to beat, can outsmart him and find victory.
Determining what is done for the plot and what is done because of the characters involved can be hard for some people. Superman is a prime case. In comics, Superman rarely uses his speed offensively. This is done for plot, to prolong the story and make it interesting (though it can also be said that it's a part of his character and not done solely because it benefits the story). In comics, Superman doesn’t kill. He does not spare his enemies because of the plot, he spares them because it’s part of his character not to kill thanks to how he was raised. In battles on the forum we include CIS, but not PIS, so Superman uses his speed but generally doesn’t kill unless otherwise stated. (“Bloodlust”)
This kind of gets into “bad writing”. It’s a term that gets thrown around a lot but one I don’t think always applies. Not every fight where the more powerful/capable character loses is bad writing. Situations can determine the winner just as much as the characters themselves so those should be taken into account before judging if a win “should” have happened or not. “
I feel stupid for arguing for a bloodlusted Spidey to win, but I still think a PIS/CIS fight he would still take the majority fights since he believes Naruto to be a thief, he’ll be webbed or KOed.
I know what PIS is. It's the fact that you disregard what happened in canon is as nothing. And you use a spiderman who is, as you say, blood lusted and goes against his personality.
You are being ridiculous. Also, each clones has an individual personality that can think on it's own. They can make plans, think up strategies on ways to take him down etc etc.
Excuse me, I’m being plausible. Ridiculous is making comparisons to train and bullet speeds, or auto-durability with superstrength.
At least i'm trying to be logical. Spiderman can't outrun a bullet, even though he has the reaction speed to evade a bullet. Naruto is faster then Spiderman IMO
Does anyone here seriously think that Spiderman can go toe to toe against a thousand clones by himself?! Especially if one of them tags him with a rasangan and Explosives kuni's.
Kimimaro was able to do it without being hit, and he was slower then Spiderman. Narutos a sloppy fighter, so by your logic, every clone is the same as the original, therefore every clone is as sluggish and stupid. Additionally, we’ve already determined Naruto being significantly slower then Spiderman, what would he do with explosive Kunais and Rasengans? I’m guessing hope Spidey stands still enough leaping from building to building with a simultaneous spread of webbing Naruto can’t break.
The anime is stupid and doesn't give enough justice to the manga. And we have not determined anything of Naruto being slower then Spiderman. You came up with that. Not me. Spiderman has reflexes that can dodge bullets, combined with his senses, it gives him a better advantage. And you make it sound as if Naruto would just stand there being webbed?! And from what i can understand, Naruto can also use his clones as a rope toss himself like spiderman. (go watch naruto vs sasuke) Not to mention the fact that Naruto can also stick to walls.
Wow?! Watered down?! PIS?! give me an example of this and i may concede. Also, you say Naruto's enemies are complete pis? While you are completly disregarding the fact that Spiderman has been taken down by people like Punisher, you regard to the enemies of Naruto's who has been watered down to his level. When has this happened?
Do you even read the manga?! Or at least watch the show?! Saying Spiderman is a genius is a pure PISS way of trying to back up your argument in this debate.
I’ve given several examples and an explaination as to what PIS is since you didn’t read the forum rules, so I guess you’ll stop replying now.
Now that's fanboyish. DO you realize...no, comprehend how many a thousand that is? A thousand is the LEAST! Naruto can make much more. Let me give you an example.
How many leaves are in a tree? Because from an oak tree, there are at least over 200 000 leaves. Naruto can make that many clones and here is the scan to prove it. I highly doubt, Spiderman can beat over a hundred thousand clones.
Firstly it was a thousand, now Naruto made exactly the amount of leaves on a tree. Tell me, when’s the last time Naruto summoned that many bunshins without getting tired? You can no more claim Naruto summoning 200,000 clones then I can saying he didn’t just summon as much as he could, given continuity, is not 200,000 clones. So, for re-cap, fight is York city, where Spiderman has home turf advantage, his webbing, superior speed, and his spider sense. Naruto has his Bunshin and Rasengan and is mistaken for a thief. A fight breaks out and Naruto uses kage bunshin to summon however many clones, which are practically statues to Spiderman since he knows what attack is coming on their first movements, uses his superior speed and widespread webbing, what happens?
" huh....well, disregarding what happened in the manga, thats just like you. You believe me now?
If you don't believe that he can summon that many clones, then tell me how many he can summon by what Kakashi has said. "One person for each leaf. This many" Kakashi points up to the tree.
Naruto, or any of his thousands of clones, cannot hit Spiderman because Spiderman is a bullet timer.
If Spiderman hits Naruto once, he's dead.
Naruto cannot break out of Spiderman's webbing.
Any case of Spiderman getting tagged by someone slower than bullets is PIS.
Let me address all of those issues.
1 and 4 are essentialy the same thing, so i'll address them both:
Tell me LKYJ, how many of Spiderman's enemies move faster than bullets? What percentage would you say? I'm going to list a bunch of Spiderman's enemies off the top of my head just so we can get some sort of percentage:
Venom
Carnage
Chameleon
Kraven
Green Goblin
Hob Goblin
Demo Goblin
Dr. Octopus
Morbius
Shriek
Carrion
Jackal
Black Fox
Lizard
Scorpion
Rhino
Mysterio
Typhoid Mary
King Pin
Juggernaut
There is 20 villains right there.
Question: Tell me, how many of them move faster than sound? Answer: None of them.
Question: How many of them have tagged Spiderman? Answer: All of them.
So how can you refute these facts that seem to point that Spiderman does not move faster than sound and cannot dodge everything below the speed of sound?
You can say its: "PIS" How can you say it is PIS when this accounts for the vast majority of his showings? Which is more common? Spiderman dodging attacks that are faster than sound? Or Spiderman getting tagged by attacks slower than sound? I think we both know it is the latter. Now that would mean that eitehr a. Spiderman dodging bullets is PIS or b. Spiderman can specificaly dodge bullets because of some set factors. Once again, I say Spiderman dodges bullets with his heightened agility, reaction, his Spider-sense, and the simple principle of understanding the space a gun controls and its projectory.
You can say: "Spiderman was taking it easy." Spiderman was bloodlusted when Sheik was messing with his mind and trying to get him to become the new "father" of the family in place of Carnage. Still, Spiderman was hit by Carrion who by no means has ever displayed bullet timing speed. And I hardly think that Spiderman would allow Juggernaut to hit him for jokes and giggles.
Its perfectly logical to assume Naruto can hit Spiderman. He is faster, more agile ,and better trained in martial arts than the majority of people listed on that 1-20. It was even explained in Civil War, that you can beat Spiderman with technique. Even if his Spidersense goes off, you can put him in a position where he has to take the blow (Captain America vs Spiderman).
Moving back to 1-4...
2. Assuming Spiderman is bloodlusted, yes, this is a possibility. This is also assuming that he directly hits Naruto, Naruto doesn't use replacement, and the Fox cannot heal wounds like that.
3. If Spiderman lands the webbing on Naruto, it's possible that Naruto would be done. This is all dependant on whether the Demon Fox can break out of the webbing or not.
dTell me LKYJ, how many of Spiderman's enemies move faster than bullets? What percentage would you say? I'm going to list a bunch of Spiderman's enemies off the top of my head just so we can get some sort of percentage:
Venom
Carnage
Chameleon
Kraven
Green Goblin
Hob Goblin
Demo Goblin
Dr. Octopus
Morbius
Shriek
Carrion
Jackal
Black Fox
Lizard
Scorpion
Rhino
Mysterio
Typhoid Mary
King Pin
Juggernaut
There is 20 villains right there.
Question: Tell me, how many of them move faster than sound? Answer: None of them.
Question: How many of them have tagged Spiderman? Answer: All of them.
So how can you refute these facts that seem to point that Spiderman does not move faster than sound and cannot dodge everything below the speed of sound?
You can say its: "PIS" How can you say it is PIS when this accounts for the vast majority of his showings? Which is more common? Spiderman dodging attacks that are faster than sound? Or Spiderman getting tagged by attacks slower than sound? I think we both know it is the latter. Now that would mean that eitehr a. Spiderman dodging bullets is PIS or b. Spiderman can specificaly dodge bullets because of some set factors. Once again, I say Spiderman dodges bullets with his heightened agility, reaction, his Spider-sense, and the simple principle of understanding the space a gun controls and its projectory.
You can say: "Spiderman was taking it easy." Spiderman was bloodlusted when Sheik was messing with his mind and trying to get him to become the new "father" of the family in place of Carnage. Still, Spiderman was hit by Carrion who by no means has ever displayed bullet timing speed. And I hardly think that Spiderman would allow Juggernaut to hit him for jokes and giggles.
PIS and CIS
These are terms commonly used on battle forums on other sites and most of us know what they mean. For those who don’t, PIS is “plot induced stupidity” and CIS is “character induced stupidity”. PIS/”jobbing” is when a character loses for the sake of plot despite the fact that they should be able to win. CIS is when a character loses because an aspect of the character (usually a lack of intelligence) gets in his own way. Superman losing to Batman would be PIS is most cases since Superman is perfectly capable of beating Batman in a number of ways before he can react. Sandman losing to Spider-Man is CIS because Sandman isn’t all that smart so Spider-Man, who is less powerful and should be easy to beat, can outsmart him and find victory.
Determining what is done for the plot and what is done because of the characters involved can be hard for some people. Superman is a prime case. In comics, Superman rarely uses his speed offensively. This is done for plot, to prolong the story and make it interesting (though it can also be said that it's a part of his character and not done solely because it benefits the story). In comics, Superman doesn’t kill. He does not spare his enemies because of the plot, he spares them because it’s part of his character not to kill thanks to how he was raised. In battles on the forum we include CIS, but not PIS, so Superman uses his speed but generally doesn’t kill unless otherwise stated. (“Bloodlust”)
This kind of gets into “bad writing”. It’s a term that gets thrown around a lot but one I don’t think always applies. Not every fight where the more powerful/capable character loses is bad writing. Situations can determine the winner just as much as the characters themselves so those should be taken into account before judging if a win “should” have happened or not.
"And here you are asking me a question where there is no answer to. And yet, here you are yet again, completely disregarding what i have said many times. If i were to answer your question, then do not disregard mine just so you can hear my answer.
There’s only no answer because you refuse to acknowledge it, it’s either denial or bias. Considering I’ve thwarted just about every speed claim you’ve made, what difference would Lee and Naruto having faster running speed be in a fight? None.
Naruto doesn't have durability?! Thats quite a claim. And the fact that you completely disregard the fact that Spiderman has been beaten by lesser people is ridiculous. It's canon and yet you deny it shouldn't have happened. I don't know about you, but you make it sound like Spiderman has Punisher's personality? And, this is stated by Vine users but with prep, Death Stroke can take down Spiderman pretty easily. For a guy who can dodge bullets and pick up cars, here is a lesser man who can take down spiderman pretty easily with a little bit of prep. What's up with that?
It’s called faulty logic and reasoning, which is why I continually ask you to refer to the board rules you so adamantly break.
Again, that's quite a claim. So, claiming that Naruto doesn't have any of those things, Spiderman can beat them?! Then how is it possible that Naruto can jump that high? From tree to tree with complete ease? Or get hit a giant snake that should have crushed him into powder? These scans show Naruto stopping a giant snake with brute strength alone.
What of it? He can jump high and he’s got super strength, can he hit someone that routinely dodges bullets?
Fastest Train in the World: 357.164 mph
Average speed of a bullet: 900-1200 mph
Naruto is a statue in comparison, since last I checked, he can’t run nearly run let alone fight nearly as fast as a bullet.
Durability
Did it specify how high that was? Has his speed increased to speed of sound?
Basica rasangan - the top left panel
To clarify, that’s the damage output of a Rasengan, which multiple people have taken without having an exit wound that big. Unless you can post a scan of someone receiving a Rasengan that has that kind of an exit wound?
Healing. A chidori right through his chest. This is Naruto at the age of 12, with no tail power
Great, what’s he going to do once he gets tied up with webbing that held down Iron Man?
Super speed - And funny enough, this is under water
Can you post four pages prior to that, please? I’m skeptical as to the circumstances, especially since Naruto doesn’t show that speed when they get out of the water immediately after.
First of all, what does that have to do with Itachi being uber powerful? From what i can understand, Itachi was on the side of Konoho the whole time, infiltrating Akatsuki. The fact that Itachi couldn't KO those konoho ninja's is pretty obvious, no? There on the same side.
“Almost killing” is an overstatement, Sasuke was supposed to become more powerful then Itachi, even inheriting Orochimarus techniques, still couldn’t kill him. I was under the impression he was supposed to eventually surpass Itachi, but Itachi was still somehow powerful enough to give Sasuke the fight of his life. THAT is canon, and it’s bad writing, is what I was alluding to.
Could be possible, seeing as it is a technique rather then just digging a hole through the ground. The fact that Naruto can dig through the ground so fast during that puff of smoke, he not only managed to create a shadow clone to hide the hole, but he completely tricked Neji and KO'd him. Digging that large hole so fast and hard, isn't that minor supder strength? Or can humans dig a hole that fast during that puff of smoke?
Can Naruto dig through concrete?
I know what PIS is. It's the fact that you disregard what happened in canon is as nothing. And you use a spiderman who is, as you say, blood lusted and goes against his personality.
See, it’s sentences like this which let me know you have no clue as to what PIS is, which is dismissable as per the rules of the board. Spiderman doesn’t have to be bloodlusted to use full advantage of his speed, never had to be dodging machine gun fire for 40+ years of his story.
At least i'm trying to be logical. Spiderman can't outrun a bullet, even though he has the reaction speed to evade a bullet. Naruto is faster then Spiderman IMO
Strawman argument. Spidermans running speed has nothing to do with his attack and evasion speed. And, you have no evidence as to why Naruto would be quicker, but you insist on saying Naruto is faster, therefore, you’re trolling.
The anime is stupid and doesn't give enough justice to the manga. And we have not determined anything of Naruto being slower then Spiderman. You came up with that. Not me. Spiderman has reflexes that can dodge bullets, combined with his senses, it gives him a better advantage. And you make it sound as if Naruto would just stand there being webbed?! And from what i can understand, Naruto can also use his clones as a rope toss himself like spiderman. (go watch naruto vs sasuke) Not to mention the fact that Naruto can also stick to walls.
I’m going to take that as a ‘no,’ Naruto couldn’t hit Kimimaro, who is slower then Spidey. And, a ‘no,’ Naruto can’t hit someone who dodges point blank automatic machine gun fire.
Wow?! Watered down?! PIS?! give me an example of this and i may concede. Also, you say Naruto's enemies are complete pis? While you are completly disregarding the fact that Spiderman has been taken down by people like Punisher, you regard to the enemies of Naruto's who has been watered down to his level. When has this happened?
Do you even read the manga?! Or at least watch the show?! Saying Spiderman is a genius is a pure PISS way of trying to back up your argument in this debate.
I’ve given several examples and an explaination as to what PIS is since you didn’t read the forum rules, so I guess you’ll stop replying now.
It doesn't matter weather i do know what the meaning of it is or not, you completely disregarded what i have said.
Noone disregarded what you said, I’m debating as per the RULES OF THE BOARD which you clearly ignore even when I’ve explained it to you. Hey, I’m still waiting to know why Naruto running as fast as a train makes him a travel faster then sound.
huh....well, disregarding what happened in the manga, thats just like you. You believe me now?
These are terms commonly used on battle forums on other sites and most of us know what they mean. For those who don’t, PIS is “plot induced stupidity” and CIS is “character induced stupidity”. PIS/”jobbing” is when a character loses for the sake of plot despite the fact that they should be able to win. CIS is when a character loses because an aspect of the character (usually a lack of intelligence) gets in his own way. Superman losing to Batman would be PIS is most cases since Superman is perfectly capable of beating Batman in a number of ways before he can react. Sandman losing to Spider-Man is CIS because Sandman isn’t all that smart so Spider-Man, who is less powerful and should be easy to beat, can outsmart him and find victory.
First off, making certain words bigger doesn't make you any more right. It only makes it hard to quote since it registers each bigger font as a break.
Anyways:
I know what PIS/CIS/Jobbing is. You'll notice I have used these terms a lot in other threads.
As per my past posts which you apparently have not read, Naruto isn't faster nor has anyone in the manga ever displayed that bullet timing speed.
I read the gist.
Furthermore, its hard to prove that Narutoverse characters do not have bullet time speed when there exist no bullets in the Narutoverse. No matter how you put it, this point is redundant. If a normal average street cop from the real world can dodge a bullet, I'm sure a Naruto character can. And like I previously stated, you do not have to move at the speed of sound to tag Spiderman.
If you can't read what's already been addressed, you're not making a contribution to this argument.
If you could quote in a more organized fashion, it would be easier to read. I certainly won't put myself through a headache reading the same things quoted 1 billion times.
The mere mention of Civil War and Caps fight with Spidey reeks of PIS, considering if Spidey was serious, fists that routinely lift cars and tons of weight would kill Cap, Spideys not going to kill a legend. Just like his fight with Wolverine, that's PIS right there considering Wolverine is far slower, but somehow Spidey felt like he was afraid of him.
What it seems you're doing to me is regarding Spidermans less common upper end feats as "the Real Spiderman" and his lower end feats as "PIS". Now I know what Spiderman's strength is. Thats not in question. What I'm questioning is his ability to dodge everything under the speed of sound. I do not believe that Spiderman can dodge everything under the speed of sound. Furthermore, bullets is a very poor argument for Spiderman being able to dodge everything under the speed of sound. As I have stated time and time again: you do not have to have faster than sound reflexes to dodge a bullet. Chameleon has dodged bullets. Typhoid Mary has dodged bullets. Real life everyday Police Officers dodge bullets.
What about the Flashs rogues gallery, yes or no, Captain Cold can beat the Flash in a fight. How about Spiderman beating Firelord, a herald of Galactus, that's canon, so can Spidey beat a herald of Galactus? What about World War Hulk beating Sentry, who conveniently forgot he can fly faster then light speed and somehow lost? That's what the forum rules are there for, if you don't like them, go complain to a moderator, not to me, oldmagic is just trolling at this point, blatantly ignoring the rules even though they've been posted for him by me.
What you're doing is listing things that are blatantly not consistent.
How many people have done to Flash what Deathstroke has? Not too many. How often does Spiderman beat Herald class beings? Not too many. How often does Hulk beat Sentry like beings? Not too many.
The difference here is that Spiderman getting tagged by slower than sound people is both consistent and his usual showing.
Assuming Spidey is bloodlusted, Naruto will die, that's it. He can't make the seals to perform kawarimi in time to leave the scene. Unless you want to make an argument about Naruto fighting at speed of sound speeds. Demon fox Naruto is summoned, yes or no, he breaks webbing that's held Iron Man.
Spiderman does not move at the speed of sound. I'm sorry, I am not buying that. Assuming that they're at least a couple meters away from each other, Naruto should have more than enough time to make a bunch of Bunshin to slow down Spiderman.
I'm not even going to bother anymore. I just want to ask you a question. Is Spiderman faster then the speed Oro is moving at? 2:20. And if you watch this whole video, you see Sasuke jumping so high, he outclasses Spiderman in every possible way when it comes to leaping ability. Oh and second of all, Itachi couldn't kill Sasuke because he WANTED to lose. If you read the manga carefully, you would know that Zetsu has said that Itachi isn't acting like his normal self. He self sacrificed for sasuke for a higher meaning.
First off, making certain words bigger doesn't make you any more right. It only makes it hard to quote since it registers each bigger font as a break.
Anyways:I know what PIS/CIS/Jobbing is. You'll notice I have used these terms a lot in other threads.
Then you can see as to why I think sentences like the following lead me to believe otherwise:
What it seems you're doing to me is regarding Spidermans less common upper end feats as "the Real Spiderman" and his lower end feats as "PIS". Now I know what Spiderman's strength is. Thats not in question. What I'm questioning is his ability to dodge everything under the speed of sound. I do not believe that Spiderman can dodge everything under the speed of sound. Furthermore, bullets is a very poor argument for Spiderman being able to dodge everything under the speed of sound. As I have stated time and time again: you do not have to have faster than sound reflexes to dodge a bullet. Chameleon has dodged bullets. Typhoid Mary has dodged bullets.
When an antagonist who manages to harm Spiderman does so by means in which Spideys suddenly forgotten his abilities, it’s PIS. Spidey dodging gunfire from point blank or from sniper rounds that all travel between 900-1500 MPH, but suddenly he can be hit by a far slower Naruto, makes absolute zero sense.
Real life everyday Police Officers dodge bullets. If a normal average street cop from the real world can dodge a bullet, I'm sure a Naruto character can.
I’m a cop, someone’s standing five feet away with a gun in his hand and fires. Do I get hit or can I dodge a bullet after it’s been fired? Contrarily, same scenario, except I’m spiderman, I’ve dodged bullets from automatic gunfire at this range before, now replace the scenario with Naruto throwing a punch, do I get hit or does Naruto miss?.
Furthermore, its hard to prove that Narutoverse characters do not have bullet time speed when there exist no bullets in the Narutoverse. No matter how you put it, this point is redundant. If a normal average street cop from the real world can dodge a bullet, I'm sure a Naruto character can.
That’s a copout, last a checked, they were getting hit with kunai, shurikens, and melee strikes. You’re suggesting giving bullet timing feats to characters that have never dodged something traveling that quickley, but in turn, routinely get hit by far slower moving objects. Have any of the characters been shown to have that level of speed, or not? It’s a simple question we all know the answer to, but unfortunately, no one wants to admit it.
How many people have done to Flash what Deathstroke has? Not too many.
I’m going to assume that’s a “no,” Captain Cold, Deathstroke, Weather Wizard, none of them can process multi times the speed of light, but yet, in comic books, they seem to be able to hurt him. Why? For plot enrichment, i.e. PIS. Which is what is being argued here. Spiderman at his best can not be touched by someone that moves slower then the speed of sound, any other indication as to such is blatant, dirty, disgusting PIS. Another explaination as follows:
“What is PIS? Plot Induced Stupidity, or PIS, is when characters don't use their abilities or skills to the fullest extent as shown before, even within their personality ranges, for the sake of the story plotline. It makes lesser powered characters an actual challenge against higher powered characters in the comics. Examples of PIS include Flash stories lasting longer than three panels, or Toy Man as a threat to Superman. Standard CBR fights exempt the contestants from PIS unless otherwise specified.”
How often does Spiderman beat Herald class beings? Not too many.
Because it’s not possible when they’re written to the fullest extent, my other forum I go to actually have a rule against such called “Spiderman Vs. Firelord” quoted here:
“What is the Spiderman vs. Firelord exemption? Spiderman vs. Firelord, or SvFL, is a shorthand that refers to any time when a character performs a feat that their powers and skills should be blatantly insufficient for, and is not repeated or is rarely repeated again relative to the character's overall established career, as well as the character's opponents' established showings. In statistical terms, it is an outlier, something that is radically beyond the character's established capabilities. For example, Spiderman defeating a herald of Galactus is a case of the SvFL exemption; however, Batman being able to sneak up on Superman is not because he has done so frequently under different writers. For standard CBR fights, feats considered to fall under the SvFL exemption are not valid. Likewise, examples of writing which go against firmly set canon are also ignored. For example, in Larry Hama's run of Batman and Grell's run of Iron Man, both characters were out of character and did things very much against established canon; therefore those runs are disregarded.”
How often does Hulk beat Sentry like beings? Not too many.
If he’s done so, It’s PIS.
The difference here is that Spiderman getting tagged by slower than sound people is both consistent and his usual showing.
PIS given your idea of consistency is undermined by him routinely dodging automatic gunfire you seem to dismess as “anyone can do it, why can’t Naruto”
Spiderman does not move at the speed of sound. I'm sorry, I am not buying that. Assuming that they're at least a couple meters away from each other, Naruto should have more than enough time to make a bunch of Bunshin to slow down Spiderman.
Again, noone said he moves the speed of sound, I said he dodges objects that fly at him that routinely break the speed of sound. Naruto has never displayed that level of speed, therefore, Naruto can’t touch Spiderman.
Tell me, can Spiderman run ross a football field within a 2 to 3 seconds? Because a football field is a 100 yards long, that would be 5280 feet, which is a mile. If he can run across that field with in 2 to 3 seconds, then i concede, spiderman can outrun a bullet.
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