Captain America (Steve Rogers) & Spiderman (with spidersense BUT no web shooters) VERSUS Daredevil (with billy clubs) and Wolverine (healing factor slowed to first Claremont/Miller mini series levels) Fight takes place in the desert Start fifty meters apart Morals on Fight to KO Who wins and why?
Spider-man's already unloaded on Logan twice and he was concious, if his HF being hampered down doesn't affect his durability against a 10 tonner and Cap then i'll go team 2 due to morals being on and if Logan actually fights smart and since Spider-Man isn't going all out. Spidey doesn't have his webbing so he isn't incapacitating Logan, DD could atleast hold off Spider-Man while Logan and Cap go at it and Wolverine would beat Captain America in a fight then the 2 would gang up on Spider-Man. Or Wolverine could could beat Spider-man while DD and Cap go at it.
I think this is a decent fight but comes down to whether Spider-Man will KO one of them, if Logan fights smart and his HF doesn't dampen his durability.
Spider-man's already unloaded on Logan twice and he was concious, if his HF being hampered down doesn't affect his durability against a 10 tonner and Cap then i'll go team 2 due to morals being on and if Logan actually fights smart and since Spider-Man isn't going all out. Spidey doesn't have his webbing so he isn't incapacitating Logan, DD could atleast hold off Spider-Man while Logan and Cap go at it and Wolverine would beat Captain America in a fight then the 2 would gang up on Spider-Man. Or Wolverine could could beat Spider-man while DD and Cap go at it. I think this is a decent fight but comes down to whether Spider-Man will KO one of them, if Logan fights smart and his HF doesn't dampen his durability.
Great points. I actually have a few of my own theories but want to hear more from Viners before I profer them. Again... you make a solid argument here.
Team 1. Spidey can handle logan like he has many other times and then help cap with DD
Curious, the only time he's handled Logan is by incapacitating him with webbing. Which he doesn't have here. One might argue Wolverine has had the upperhand in most other encounters ... the reason being his durability was too much for Spidey to overcome. Which is why I somewhat lowered Logan's HF to Frank Miller mini series levels... could make this fight a little more interesting...
Team 1. Spidey can handle logan like he has many other times and then help cap with DD
Curious, the only time he's handled Logan is by incapacitating him with webbing. Which he doesn't have here. One might argue Wolverine has had the upperhand in most other encounters ... the reason being his durability was too much for Spidey to overcome. Which is why I somewhat lowered Logan's HF to Frank Miller mini series levels... could make this fight a little more interesting...
Spiderman could just put wolverines hands behind his back and continuously bash his skull into the ground until he gets KO'd.
Team 1. Spidey can handle logan like he has many other times and then help cap with DD
Curious, the only time he's handled Logan is by incapacitating him with webbing. Which he doesn't have here. One might argue Wolverine has had the upperhand in most other encounters ... the reason being his durability was too much for Spidey to overcome. Which is why I somewhat lowered Logan's HF to Frank Miller mini series levels... could make this fight a little more interesting...
Spiderman could just put wolverines hands behind his back and continuously bash his skull into the ground until he gets KO'd.
Only Wolverine is a far superior fighter than Parker. How's he going to pin Wolverine's hands like that? Spiderman has greater speed and strength to be sure, but has no technique. Wolverine is a master at all known forms... and he's superhumanly fast as well. I feel that might not work so cleanly... Wolverine's not my favorite, but he's getting a little short changed I think...
Cap and Spidey, nothing could convince me otherwise
Why so adamant? Not disagreeing... just curious is all ...
Because out of all the characters in comics, these 4 are some I'm most familiar with, while DD and Wolverine are no pushovers Cap and Spidey are that much better
Team 1. Spidey can handle logan like he has many other times and then help cap with DD
Curious, the only time he's handled Logan is by incapacitating him with webbing. Which he doesn't have here. One might argue Wolverine has had the upperhand in most other encounters ... the reason being his durability was too much for Spidey to overcome. Which is why I somewhat lowered Logan's HF to Frank Miller mini series levels... could make this fight a little more interesting...
Spiderman could just put wolverines hands behind his back and continuously bash his skull into the ground until he gets KO'd.
Morals are on, Spidey has already bashed Logan with all he has got and couldnt KO him or keep him down and one of the times he was pissed. and with morals on he wont go all out in the first place and this fight is to KO which Daredevil could do to him as he doesn't have the same hesitations peter does.
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Neither have the sufficient strength to actually KO Logan who does have superhuman durability if these instances actually had something to do with his HF fine, team 1 can win but because of the adamantium he is still considered superhuman in durability and Spidey does not possess the skill to KO to. Cap possibly could but i believe Logan would beat him and he can beat spider-man if he took him on h2h combat. DareDevil is atleast skilled enough to hang with either fighter as well.
Team 1. Spidey can handle logan like he has many other times and then help cap with DD
Curious, the only time he's handled Logan is by incapacitating him with webbing. Which he doesn't have here. One might argue Wolverine has had the upperhand in most other encounters ... the reason being his durability was too much for Spidey to overcome. Which is why I somewhat lowered Logan's HF to Frank Miller mini series levels... could make this fight a little more interesting...
Spiderman could just put wolverines hands behind his back and continuously bash his skull into the ground until he gets KO'd.
Morals are on, Spidey has already bashed Logan with all he has got and couldnt KO him or keep him down and one of the times he was pissed. and with morals on he wont go all out in the first place and this fight is to KO which Daredevil could do to him as he doesn't have the same hesitations peter does.
Gallery
Neither have the sufficient strength to actually KO Logan who does have superhuman durability if these instances actually had something to do with his HF fine, team 1 can win but because of the adamantium he is still considered superhuman in durability and Spidey does not possess the skill to KO to. Cap possibly could but i believe Logan would beat him and he can beat spider-man if he took him on h2h combat. DareDevil is atleast skilled enough to hang with either fighter as well.
But what would you say to Mister X (peak human) KO'ing Logan;
And here is Captain America doing the same;
Wouldn't you say, based on these, either Spiderman (a 10 tonner) and Captain America should be able to KO Logan?
Team 1. Spidey can handle logan like he has many other times and then help cap with DD
Curious, the only time he's handled Logan is by incapacitating him with webbing. Which he doesn't have here. One might argue Wolverine has had the upperhand in most other encounters ... the reason being his durability was too much for Spidey to overcome. Which is why I somewhat lowered Logan's HF to Frank Miller mini series levels... could make this fight a little more interesting...
Spiderman could just put wolverines hands behind his back and continuously bash his skull into the ground until he gets KO'd.
Morals are on, Spidey has already bashed Logan with all he has got and couldnt KO him or keep him down and one of the times he was pissed. and with morals on he wont go all out in the first place and this fight is to KO which Daredevil could do to him as he doesn't have the same hesitations peter does.
Gallery
Neither have the sufficient strength to actually KO Logan who does have superhuman durability if these instances actually had something to do with his HF fine, team 1 can win but because of the adamantium he is still considered superhuman in durability and Spidey does not possess the skill to KO to. Cap possibly could but i believe Logan would beat him and he can beat spider-man if he took him on h2h combat. DareDevil is atleast skilled enough to hang with either fighter as well.
But what would you say to Mister X (peak human) KO'ing Logan;
And here is Captain America doing the same;
Wouldn't you say, based on these, either Spiderman (a 10 tonner) and Captain America should be able to KO Logan?
It was just a way to show up Mr. X and i call it PIS. Logan ended up beating him later, then in their next encounter Wolverine let Mr. X do whatever he wanted to him until X couldn't put him down so he left. And on top of that X actually has skill and is one of the top fighters in the MU he should have a put down Logan via pressure points if Wolverine just barrels at him. As for Cap he snuck up behind him, and with his shield which i believe has broken Iron Man's armor too which says something in itself.
@god_spawn: Those mirror some of my own points. CA shouldn't have gotten the drop on Logan what with his enhanced senses and all. That is poor writing in my opinion. Logan playing down to the red white and blue. However, I feel that Cap can KO Logan with his shield. As you've pointed out, it hits like a truck, plus CA knows how and where to hit... And I agree, Mister X is indeed top tier hand to hand. Level 7+ in my (and Marvel's) opinion. But even with pressure points, he should not KO Logan so easily. PIS makes sense, Logan jobbing to Mister X's first appearance. (And what is with these peak humans not breaking a fist hitting an adamantium laced skull?) I'm a little surprised at how many people on the Vine still favor Spiderman without the webbing all things considered... he hasn't had many good showings against Wolverine in Marvel canon...
@Super_SoldierXII: The problem is spider-man since he holds back like crazy which is why people like Daredevil can actually beat him, and Wolverine can get hits on him, Wolverine being the best fighter here with morals can and will beat either of them and DD is skilled enough to hang with either since Parker isnt one for a power punch to splat DD on the wall. If morals were off Spider-Man would dominate this fight. Neither fighter should touch him if he fights to the best of his ability clobber DD and he can hold Logan down and let Cap go in for a KO.
@Super_SoldierXII: The problem is spider-man since he holds back like crazy which is why people like Daredevil can actually beat him, and Wolverine can get hits on him, Wolverine being the best fighter here with morals can and will beat either of them and DD is skilled enough to hang with either since Parker isnt one for a power punch to splat DD on the wall. If morals were off Spider-Man would dominate this fight. Neither fighter should touch him if he fights to the best of his ability clobber DD and he can hold Logan down and let Cap go in for a KO.
As I've stated before, I disagree that Spiderman is unhittable even when not holding back. I can back this up with many, many pics in story arcs where Spiderman has absolutely no reason to be holding back...stories wherein he is enraged actually, and some in which he's even fighting to save loved ones... and yet gets hit. Time and time again. Why would he hold back? Why would he hold back when one hit by the claws would kill him? Again, superior skilled oponents hit Peter because, despite precog and speed, Peter lacks the skill to effectively avoid all high level combinations/attacks ... I'll use the same RL example to press the point; I can be in extremely great shape, a high level athlete WITH precog ... and yet put me in an Octagon with Anderson Silva and despite being able to forecast his moves, and despite my superb physical condition, I lack the skill to avoid everything and put him down. The real problem to Wolverine here is Captain America. In my opinion CA has the requisite skill coupled with physical attributes to match Logan and is a master of defense with his shield to hold back the claws long enough to score a telling blow... or yes, perhaps Spiderman hangs with Wolverine long enough for Cap to take down DD (and he would in my opinion) then come in to back him up against Logan...
First off, Spidey probably gets hit more when not holdng back because he is acting more reckless. Spider-man getting hit is almost always PIS, but I do like your take on it Supersoldier. Even quick fighters sometimes duck and weave into punches and that seldom ends well.
That said these guys are capable of going either way. I'd give Cap and Spidey the edge. Captain America is pretty much the guy when it comes to pulling out hopeless victory. Master tactical and fighting skills, a peak human body, a shield that pretty much blocks damage from anything the others can throw at him. Spider-man is just superfast and agile. His strength allows him to one up guys with similar acrobatic styles like DD. He has spider-sense.
DD has the radar senses working for him, and I'd actually say he has the best chance of getting past Cap's shield. the problem is that short of nerve strikes he isn't bringing anything to the table to put Cap down. DD vs Spider-man comes down to the same problem. DD is outclassed and short of nerve strikes really doesn't have anything in his usual bag of tricks to put Spidey down. Logan can (and would) one shot anybody he hit, provided it wasn't a fleshwound. The big issue is him actually hitting Cap and Spidey. We know he can fight when he puts his mind to it. And this being 80's HF Wolverine he better if he wants to not end up KO'ed. The problem is that Cap is no slouch himself, and has the shield to deflect the claws and Spider-man just trumps him physically.
Adding everything together, I think DD is probably the weakest link and I don't see Wolverine taking on both Spider-man and Captain America. My final tally is Spider-man and Cap 7-8 out of 10.
@Super_SoldierXII: The problem is spider-man since he holds back like crazy which is why people like Daredevil can actually beat him, and Wolverine can get hits on him, Wolverine being the best fighter here with morals can and will beat either of them and DD is skilled enough to hang with either since Parker isnt one for a power punch to splat DD on the wall. If morals were off Spider-Man would dominate this fight. Neither fighter should touch him if he fights to the best of his ability clobber DD and he can hold Logan down and let Cap go in for a KO.
As I've stated before, I disagree that Spiderman is unhittable even when not holding back. I can back this up with many, many pics in story arcs where Spiderman has absolutely no reason to be holding back...stories wherein he is enraged actually, and some in which he's even fighting to save loved ones... and yet gets hit. Time and time again. Why would he hold back? Why would he hold back when one hit by the claws would kill him? Again, superior skilled oponents hit Peter because, despite precog and speed, Peter lacks the skill to effectively avoid all high level combinations/attacks ... I'll use the same RL example to press the point; I can be in extremely great shape, a high level athlete WITH precog ... and yet put me in an Octagon with Anderson Silva and despite being able to forecast his moves, and despite my superb physical condition, I lack the skill to avoid everything and put him down.The real problem to Wolverine here is Captain America. In my opinion CA has the requisite skill coupled with physical attributes to match Logan and is a master of defense with his shield to hold back the claws long enough to score a telling blow... or yes, perhaps Spiderman hangs with Wolverine long enough for Cap to take down DD (and he would in my opinion) then come in to back him up against Logan...
I didn't say he is unhittable, i'm saying to these guys he should be if morals are off. If Daken was so skilled, he would've used them against Spider-Man which he did combined with the pheromones but Parker overcame them with his Spider-sense and beat Daken. You can bring up instances where he shouldn't have been holding back and physically he might not have but it didn't say anything about his spider senses. If you want blame the writers cause honestly it's their fault for downplaying the Spider-Sense as usual. As for the Silva example it doesn't matter, you aren't 10x stronger than he is with superhuman stats. You put Parker and Daredevil in a room together bloodlusted and tell them to go at it in h2h, DD could be as skilled as he wants to but he isn't touching Peter he shouldn't at all. As for CA vs Logan, if Logan fights stupid sure he will lose, infact CA is the only one i think can KO him here cause Peter isn't. Logan has always been a better fighter than Cap. In origins despite Wolverine being tired, exhausted, beaten up then plows his way through Nuke. Fights Cap, and stalemates him. So a weakened Logan can stalemate Cap and even gave him a hematoma in the leg. So why should Cap win? Even a dumb Wolverine was giving Cap trouble and he couldn't put him down and almost got beat. They have always had to handicap Logan for Cap and for some PIS reason as you agreed he snuck up behind and KO'd Logan. As for Spider-Man against either Logan took him out with one stab despite Spider-Man being pissed, he tanked all his punches Logan can take out Peter rather quickly if Parker doesn't have his webshooters which is the only reason he should beat Wolverine. And with morals against DD, he isn't going to go all out either , he will hold back just like always which against MA fighters is a bad combination with Spidey. The way i see it is whoever Logan is fighting, goes down first. Parker or Cap have always had trouble with Wolverine regardless of the situation, and DD is skilled enough to tangle with Parker with morals or atleast dance with Cap for awhile. I say team 2 for the slight majority, i think its a close fight and comes down to how Logan acts. He is the superior h2h combatant here and if he goes in all stupid with his lunges and raawrs, he can and would most likely be taken out and i will agree if Cap or Spidey can take DD out quickly enough team 1 can gain the majority, but considering who Wolverine is fighting he should rely on his skills which gives team 2 the edge IMO.
Wouldn't you say, based on these, either Spiderman (a 10 tonner) and Captain America should be able to KO Logan?
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