#1 Posted by angryvigilante (1447 posts) - - Show Bio
#2 Posted by texasdeathmatch (13122 posts) - - Show Bio

Hm, Spider-Woman? What's Hawkgirl's durability like?

#3 Posted by Aronmorales (9301 posts) - - Show Bio

Hmm... 
 
I don't think I have an answer for this one.
#4 Posted by angryvigilante (1447 posts) - - Show Bio

Hey I missed the L....sorry lol

#5 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

wow... a thread that actually could be interesting... 
 
Ok, i'll bite... 
 
Hawkgirl is pretty tough when it comes to stamina and durability... though her battle skills aren't upto scratch with Hawkmans, she's definitely no slouch in the area... 
 
I think her agility and Nth metal weapon give her the upper hand here, not to mention her flight can keep her away from Spider-Woman for most of the fight before taking her out with a few well placed blows. 
 
M

#6 Posted by Aqua11500 (2632 posts) - - Show Bio
@Methos said:
" wow... a thread that actually could be interesting...  Ok, i'll bite...  Hawkgirl is pretty tough when it comes to stamina and durability... though her battle skills aren't upto scratch with Hawkmans, she's definitely no slouch in the area...  I think her agility and Nth metal weapon give her the upper hand here, not to mention her flight can keep her away from Spider-Woman for most of the fight before taking her out with a few well placed blows.  M "
 Pretty much this.
#7 Posted by Lustwish (531 posts) - - Show Bio

HawkGirl. 

#8 Posted by jayskee (1503 posts) - - Show Bio
@Lustwish:
agree
#9 Posted by Decoy Elite (29923 posts) - - Show Bio
@Methos: But isn't Spider-Woman about as agile as Hawkgirl? Not to mention Spider-Woman actually has some long range attacks in the form of her venom blasts. There's also her pheromones which, while not being the most powerful of pheromones, could slow down Hawkgirl just enough to give Spider-Woman the edge she needs.
#10 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

i've never seen Spider-woman as agile as Hawkwoman... she's agile enough to keep up with Martian manhunter while flying during a battle... so i can see her having the upper hand in most of this battle 
 
M

#11 Posted by Fire Star (3407 posts) - - Show Bio
@Methos said:
"wow... a thread that actually could be interesting...  Ok, i'll bite...  Hawkgirl is pretty tough when it comes to stamina and durability... though her battle skills aren't upto scratch with Hawkmans, she's definitely no slouch in the area...  I think her agility and Nth metal weapon give her the upper hand here, not to mention her flight can keep her away from Spider-Woman for most of the fight before taking her out with a few well placed blows.  M "

This is about right.
#12 Posted by Silver2467 (16387 posts) - - Show Bio
@Methos said:
" i've never seen Spider-woman as agile as Hawkwoman... she's agile enough to keep up with Martian manhunter while flying during a battle... so i can see her having the upper hand in most of this battle  M "
To be fair though, I doubt the Martian was flying top speed. Hawkgirl is fast but not that fast. 
#13 Posted by HumanNumber (1453 posts) - - Show Bio

Hawkgirl's mace makes the difference here.
#14 Posted by Decoy Elite (29923 posts) - - Show Bio
@Methos said:
" i've never seen Spider-woman as agile as Hawkwoman... she's agile enough to keep up with Martian manhunter while flying during a battle... so i can see her having the upper hand in most of this battle  M "
O.O Oh, wow, didn't know she was that fast. Was he going all out or was it a sparing session?
#15 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio
@Silver2467 said:
" @Methos said:
" i've never seen Spider-woman as agile as Hawkwoman... she's agile enough to keep up with Martian manhunter while flying during a battle... so i can see her having the upper hand in most of this battle  M "
To be fair though, I doubt the Martian was flying top speed. Hawkgirl is fast but not that fast.  "
no he wasn't at top speed, but it was during a battle, leaving her to swirl through the battle with him 
 
M
#16 Posted by cattlebattle (13347 posts) - - Show Bio
@HumanNumber said:
"Hawkgirl's mace makes the difference here. "

wouldn't Drew be hard to hit with her agility, I'd imagine you would have to cock the mace back
#17 Posted by Silver2467 (16387 posts) - - Show Bio
@Methos said:
" @Silver2467 said:
" @Methos said:
" i've never seen Spider-woman as agile as Hawkwoman... she's agile enough to keep up with Martian manhunter while flying during a battle... so i can see her having the upper hand in most of this battle  M "
To be fair though, I doubt the Martian was flying top speed. Hawkgirl is fast but not that fast.  "
no he wasn't at top speed, but it was during a battle, leaving her to swirl through the battle with him  M "
Ah, I see. Fair enough. 
#18 Edited by Silver2467 (16387 posts) - - Show Bio

I have discussed this before on another thread (this is not a dupe though; it was a team battle thread). It is an interesting fight. Both have comparable strength levels, and both can fly. However, I think Hawkgirl may be faster and more maneuverable though. On the other hand, Spider-Woman has bioelctricity blasts that she can fire. Hawgirl may be able to avoid or deflect these though, but if she were hit, it could be fairly effective against her. Drew also has some combat training from Taskmaster while she was with HYDRA. But it probably would not fare well for her in a close-quarter combat situation against Hawkgirl due to her own combat skill and her mace. This is why this is actually a good battle. Overall, I may give a majority to Hawkgirl simply because of her flight speed (which I believe supersedes Jessica's) and her Nth metal enhancements and mace. 

#19 Posted by HumanNumber (1453 posts) - - Show Bio
@cattlebattle said:
"@HumanNumber said:
"Hawkgirl's mace makes the difference here. "
wouldn't Drew be hard to hit with her agility, I'd imagine you would have to cock the mace back "

I imagine she would, she's quick and it won't be necessarily easy to hit but Hawkwoman wouldn't have to hit Spider-Woman too many times with it to put her down.
#20 Edited by cattlebattle (13347 posts) - - Show Bio
@HumanNumber:
true, the only reason I'd say Jessica wins is she'd be quicker, I would think (not flying speed)
#21 Posted by Silver2467 (16387 posts) - - Show Bio
@cattlebattle said:
" @HumanNumber: true, the only reason I'd say Jessica wins is she'd be quicker, I would think (not flying speed) "
Fair point. I actually think that Drew probably has greater agility and reflexes also, but it probably will not make a difference. Hawkgirl tends to fight mid-flight. She rarely goes after an opponent head to head on the ground. She would use her flight to her advantage, as she always does. That being the case, Hawkgirl has fairly high maneuverability in flight, and it may nullify the advantage that Jessica otherwise would have in agility. Not to say that Spider-Woman's speed is altogether irrelevant, but understanding Hawkgirl's traditional methods of combat, I doubt speed would the deciding factor.
#22 Posted by cattlebattle (13347 posts) - - Show Bio
@Silver2467:
Yes but Sider-Womas no idiot, she'd realize this character has wings, and probably surmise she's a good aerial fighter, she would bait her to fight on her level. 
 
#23 Posted by Silver2467 (16387 posts) - - Show Bio
@cattlebattle: As I said though, fighting Hawkgirl head to head would probably be a poor course of action for Spider-Woman considering Hawkgir's skill (especially in flight) and her mace. Drew received hand to hand training from Taskmaster, but she is not a top tier fighter. 
#24 Posted by cattlebattle (13347 posts) - - Show Bio
@Silver2467:
I would assume quickness and martial arts would beat Hawkgirls form of strong attacks and medeivel weapons, but anyway it's a very close fight.
#25 Posted by Silver2467 (16387 posts) - - Show Bio
@cattlebattle: Hawkgirl is not lacking in speed though, especially in flight where she will be attacking from, as I already addressed. Besides, like I said, Drew is no top tier fighter anyway. I agree this a close fight though. 
#26 Edited by Vance Astro (91403 posts) - - Show Bio
@Silver2467 said:

" @cattlebattle: Hawkgirl is not lacking in speed though, especially in flight where she will be attacking from, as I already addressed. Besides, like I said, Drew is no top tier fighter anyway. I agree this a close fight though.  "

Drew isn't a top tier fighter but she's a better fighter than Hawkgirl. 
Also Hawkgirl may not be LACKING in speed but her speed isn't going to help her that much because her maneuverability is the issue.She flies by the use of her wings so by nature she's handicapped it is impossible for her to be maneuverable enough to keep up with Jessica.In a fight with someone who not only has superhuman speed but is an amazing acrobat, it's going to be really hard for Hawkgirl to get hits off.
Moderator
#27 Posted by charlieboy (7095 posts) - - Show Bio

i am kinda torn on this. hawkgirl's flight speed vs. spider-woman's vemom blasts. jessica is pretty shrewd. i don't think she would get into aerial combat with her. i have a question tho. everyone always brings up hawkgirl's mace. it was special in the jl cartoon. but don't they just use normal weaponry in the comics? ancient weapons like maces and swords  i don't recall her mace being special in the comics.
#28 Posted by cattlebattle (13347 posts) - - Show Bio

I believe their nth metal (like the cartoon)

#29 Posted by Silver2467 (16387 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:
" @Silver2467 said:

" @cattlebattle: Hawkgirl is not lacking in speed though, especially in flight where she will be attacking from, as I already addressed. Besides, like I said, Drew is no top tier fighter anyway. I agree this a close fight though.  "

Drew isn't a top tier fighter but she's a better fighter than Hawkgirl. Also Hawkgirl may not be LACKING in speed but her speed isn't going to help her that much because her maneuverability is the issue.She flies by the use of her wings so by nature she's handicapped it is impossible for her to be maneuverable enough to keep up with Jessica.In a fight with someone who not only has superhuman speed but is an amazing acrobat, it's going to be really hard for Hawkgirl to get hits off. "
But Hawkgirl does have superior flight speed, based on showings. She also applies her flight much more in combat than Jessica does. Also, Hawkgirl does have impressive maneuverability. She applies flight in combat constantly and has shown to be agile in the air when she needs to be. 
#30 Edited by Vance Astro (91403 posts) - - Show Bio
@Silver2467 said:

But Hawkgirl does have superior flight speed, based on showings. She also applies her flight much more in combat than Jessica does. Also, Hawkgirl does have impressive maneuverability. She applies flight in combat constantly and has shown to be agile in the air when she needs to be.  "

Jessica can't even fly.When Jessica was flying it wasn't her it was Queen Veranke as Jessica (She was a skrull since New Avengers started)..I don't know why Jessica would bother flying against Hawkgirl either way.Hawkgirl has impressive maneuverability? What are you using as proof? Spider-Woman will not take this aerial unless she's using her agility.Hawkgirl has no long range capability so she would have to come get Jessica...with her speed and agility it's not going to be easy for Hawkgirl to hit her..also Jessica is a trained h2h combatant.She was trained by S.H.I.E.L.D and Taskmaster as a HYDRA agent.So she has some skill connected to her dodging ability.Not to mention attacking.
Moderator
#31 Edited by Silver2467 (16387 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said: 

Jessica can't even fly.I don't know what you're talking about.When Jessica was flying it wasn't her it was Queen Veranke..  

She flew in Spider-Woman: Origins.
 

I don't know why Jessica would bother flying against Hawkgirl either way.Hawkgirl has impressive maneuverability? What are you using as proof?  

Most of her fights. Flight her modus operandi in combat. She will take toward an opponent and attack them with her mace, but she has shown to be maneuverable in combat as well. In fact, even in Brightest Day recently she has fought aerially in a decently agile form.  

Spider-Woman will not take this aerial unless she's using her agility.Hawkgirl has no long range capability so she would have to come get Jessica...with her speed and agility it's not going to be easy for Hawkgirl to hit her..also Jessica is a trained h2h combatant.She was trained by S.H.I.E.L.D and Taskmaster as a HYDRA agent.So she has some skill connected to her dodging ability.Not to mention attacking. "

She has never really done anything noteworthy in hand to hand though. She is a decent fighter, but most of the opponents she has downed through skill were just canon fodder. Taskmaster training her amounts to very little; feats are more important. 
#32 Edited by Vance Astro (91403 posts) - - Show Bio
@Silver2467 said:

" @Vance Astro said: 

Jessica can't even fly.I don't know what you're talking about.When Jessica was flying it wasn't her it was Queen Veranke..  

She flew in Spider-Woman: Origins.
 

I don't know why Jessica would bother flying against Hawkgirl either way.Hawkgirl has impressive maneuverability? What are you using as proof?  

Most of her fights. Flight her modus operandi in combat. She will take toward an opponent and attack them with her mace, but she has shown to be maneuverable in combat as well. In fact, even in Brightest Day recently she has fought aerially in a decently agile form.  

Spider-Woman will not take this aerial unless she's using her agility.Hawkgirl has no long range capability so she would have to come get Jessica...with her speed and agility it's not going to be easy for Hawkgirl to hit her..also Jessica is a trained h2h combatant.She was trained by S.H.I.E.L.D and Taskmaster as a HYDRA agent.So she has some skill connected to her dodging ability.Not to mention attacking. "

She has never really done anything noteworthy in hand to hand though. She is a decent fighter, but most of the opponents she has downed through skill were just canon fodder. Taskmaster training her amounts to very little; feats are more important.  "
 
1.She wasn't flying under her own powers.The wings on her suit allowed her to float on air currents.Which is why any time you saw her flying you never saw her take off only saw her in the air.She cannot just up and fly. 
2.The question is who did she fight for her maneuverability to be proven.If it wasn't someone with comparable agility and speed to Jessica then my point still stands.Hawkgirl is only as maneuverable as she can be in flight.To be able to hit someone with Jessica's level of acrobatic ability should prove nearly impossible, Hawkgirl would have to move at incredible speed to be able to change directions fast enough to catch someone who is maneuvering acrobatically.
3.Feats actually AREN'T important her.Hawkgirl hasn't done anything noteworthy either.I'm not comparing Jessica to someone who actually has a good level of fighting skill.
Moderator
#33 Posted by Silver2467 (16387 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said: 
 1.She wasn't flying under her own powers.The wings on her suit allowed her to float on air currents.Which is why any time you saw her flying you never saw her take off only saw her in the air.She cannot just up and fly. 
Alright. My mistake then. I only read that series once, and it was a while ago. I will concede to that. My bad.
 
2.The question is who did she fight for her maneuverability to be proven.If it wasn't someone with comparable agility and speed to Jessica then my point still stands.Hawkgirl is only as maneuverable as she can be in flight.To be able to hit someone with Jessica's level of acrobatic ability should prove nearly impossible, Hawkgirl would have to move at incredible speed to be able to change directions fast enough to catch someone who is maneuvering acrobatically.
She displayed some maneuverability against opponents who could fly themselves. They were similar to her to in that they had wings, but I would rather not try to explain. It ties into Brightest Day as a whole, and that would simply take a while to describe and bares no relevance on this anyway.  
 
3.Feats actually AREN'T important her.Hawkgirl hasn't done anything noteworthy either.I'm not comparing Jessica to someone who actually has a good level of fighting skill. "
It is important given the fact that Hawkgirl will not be fighting her hand to hand. If this were an unarmed fight, then I would give it to Drew. But fighting an opponent who will be flying into combat using a mace to attack and who is actually skillful with that weapon would require some level of competency in a fight to counterattack. I am not trying to discount Drew's fighting skill, but it only translates to this situation so well. 
#34 Posted by Vance Astro (91403 posts) - - Show Bio
@Silver2467 said:
" @Vance Astro said: 
 1.She wasn't flying under her own powers.The wings on her suit allowed her to float on air currents.Which is why any time you saw her flying you never saw her take off only saw her in the air.She cannot just up and fly. 
Alright. My mistake then. I only read that series once, and it was a while ago. I will concede to that. My bad.
 
2.The question is who did she fight for her maneuverability to be proven.If it wasn't someone with comparable agility and speed to Jessica then my point still stands.Hawkgirl is only as maneuverable as she can be in flight.To be able to hit someone with Jessica's level of acrobatic ability should prove nearly impossible, Hawkgirl would have to move at incredible speed to be able to change directions fast enough to catch someone who is maneuvering acrobatically.
She displayed some maneuverability against opponents who could fly themselves. They were similar to her to in that they had wings, but I would rather not try to explain. It ties into Brightest Day as a whole, and that would simply take a while to describe and bares no relevance on this anyway.  
 
3.Feats actually AREN'T important her.Hawkgirl hasn't done anything noteworthy either.I'm not comparing Jessica to someone who actually has a good level of fighting skill. "
It is important given the fact that Hawkgirl will not be fighting her hand to hand. If this were an unarmed fight, then I would give it to Drew. But fighting an opponent who will be flying into combat using a mace to attack and who is actually skillful with that weapon would require some level of competency in a fight to counterattack. I am not trying to discount Drew's fighting skill, but it only translates to this situation so well.  "
Fighting skill is fighting skill.If Hawkgirl doesn't have any real feats against skilled opponents with the use of her Mace then she's in the same boat as Jessica and flying at Jessica will do nothing.She will see it coming a mile away every time and dodge it.Spider-Woman also has energy projection which gives her the range advantage.Hawkgirl will have no choice but to engage Jessica in close combat.Flying will handicap her.
Moderator
#35 Posted by Silver2467 (16387 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said: 
Fighting skill is fighting skill.If Hawkgirl doesn't have any real feats against skilled opponents with the use of her Mace then she's in the same boat as Jessica 
Fair point. Not the most knowledgeable person on Hawkgirl; so if she does have combat feats, I am not the person who would know about them. I will have to concede to you on that also. 
 
and flying at Jessica will do nothing.She will see it coming a mile away every time and dodge it.
My initial point was that she would fly toward her and attack her via mace. I never meant that she would simply blitz over and over again, although, theoretically, she could. I agree that Jessica could dodge that attack, given her reflexes and agility, but she is not untouchable (not that you implied that). 
 
Spider-Woman also has energy projection which gives her the range advantage.
I mentioned and addressed this earlier in the thread, and I think Hawkgirl could deflect this using her mace. Nth metal is easily durable enough to tank it. Unless Jessica has fired her bioelectricity in broad bursts, I see no reason why Hawkgirl would be incapable of blocking it considering that her Nth metal increases speed. If Spider-Woman has used it in wider manners though, just let me know. 
 
Hawkgirl will have no choice but to engage Jessica in close combat.Flying will handicap her. "
I still am not seeing flying as a handicap. If anything, it would allow her pull away from a close-quarter fight if she is on the losing end. Yes, Spider-Woman has electrical attacks she can fire, but in flight speed, that should be easy to avoid. Not to mention, in close-quarter combat, Jessica will have to avoid her strikes. Blocking or parrying them would be counterproductive for her since she could never do that without being harmed by it. She is fast and skilled, but I have a difficult time seeing her avoid every strike Hawkgirl throws. 
#36 Posted by Vance Astro (91403 posts) - - Show Bio
@Silver2467 said:
" @Vance Astro said: 
Fighting skill is fighting skill.If Hawkgirl doesn't have any real feats against skilled opponents with the use of her Mace then she's in the same boat as Jessica 
Fair point. Not the most knowledgeable person on Hawkgirl; so if she does have combat feats, I am not the person who would know about them. I will have to concede to you on that also. 
 
and flying at Jessica will do nothing.She will see it coming a mile away every time and dodge it.
My initial point was that she would fly toward her and attack her via mace. I never meant that she would simply blitz over and over again, although, theoretically, she could. I agree that Jessica could dodge that attack, given her reflexes and agility, but she is not untouchable (not that you implied that). 
 
Spider-Woman also has energy projection which gives her the range advantage.
I mentioned and addressed this earlier in the thread, and I think Hawkgirl could deflect this using her mace. Nth metal is easily durable enough to tank it. Unless Jessica has fired her bioelectricity in broad bursts, I see no reason why Hawkgirl would be incapable of blocking it considering that her Nth metal increases speed. If Spider-Woman has used it in wider manners though, just let me know. 
 
Hawkgirl will have no choice but to engage Jessica in close combat.Flying will handicap her. "
I still am not seeing flying as a handicap. If anything, it would allow her pull away from a close-quarter fight if she is on the losing end. Yes, Spider-Woman has electrical attacks she can fire, but in flight speed, that should be easy to avoid. Not to mention, in close-quarter combat, Jessica will have to avoid her strikes. Blocking or parrying them would be counterproductive for her since she could never do that without being harmed by it. She is fast and skilled, but I have a difficult time seeing her avoid every strike Hawkgirl throws.  "
  I don't think you understand how Jessica can project her electrical blasts...Jessica can make it so even being her general radius is going to get her a hit.... 
 



Moderator
#37 Posted by Silver2467 (16387 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro: Alright. So, she has used it in wider bursts. Thanks for the scans. In that case, that could be a serious advantage for her. If Hawkgirl were to fight her straightforwardly, she could use that as a countermeasure if she needs it.  
 
So then I agree Spider-Woman can win this. Good discussion. 
#38 Posted by Vance Astro (91403 posts) - - Show Bio
@Silver2467 said:
" @Vance Astro: Alright. So, she has used it in wider bursts. Thanks for the scans. In that case, that could be a serious advantage for her. If Hawkgirl were to fight her straightforwardly, she could use that as a countermeasure if she needs it.   So then I agree Spider-Woman can win this. Good discussion.  "
REDEMPTION! HA! lol.Right, Good discussion.I haven't debated so much on CV in a LOOOOOOOONG TIME!
Moderator
#39 Posted by Silver2467 (16387 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:
" @Silver2467 said:
" @Vance Astro: Alright. So, she has used it in wider bursts. Thanks for the scans. In that case, that could be a serious advantage for her. If Hawkgirl were to fight her straightforwardly, she could use that as a countermeasure if she needs it.   So then I agree Spider-Woman can win this. Good discussion.  "
REDEMPTION! HA! lol.Right, Good discussion.I haven't debated so much on CV in a LOOOOOOOONG TIME! "
Haha. Same here. Been a while since I had a decent debate. 
#40 Posted by Strafe Prower (11892 posts) - - Show Bio

Great debate guys.

#41 Posted by Vance Astro (91403 posts) - - Show Bio
@Strafe Prower said:
" Great debate guys. "
:) 
Moderator
#42 Posted by Silver2467 (16387 posts) - - Show Bio
@Strafe Prower said:
" Great debate guys. "
Thank you, sir. 
#43 Posted by albanmanson (1580 posts) - - Show Bio

spider woman ftw,,,,her experience working for hydra ,shield,sword its useful...