With limited power, comes an average amount of responsibility.
The way this works is for each round, pick ONLY 2 of Spider-Man's powers. If three or more powers are needed, please explain why. Everything else is reduced to a normal human of his size and age. You can mix and match which 2 powers you use for each round, depending on which ones you think will help Spider-Man the most.
Hard to choose; some advantages would help him with earlier enemies, but be useless with later. Same applies vise versa. If I had to choose it would be webs and reflexes, but he'd have an alright chance of stopping at Moon Knight.
Hard to choose; some advantages would help him with earlier enemies, but be useless with later. Same applies vise versa. If I had to choose it would be webs and reflexes, but he'd have an alright chance of stopping at Moon Knight.
@wolverine08: @beaconofstrength: You can pick different powers for each round. He's not locked into the same 2 powers the entire gauntlet, but he can have no more then 2 each round.
@beaconofstrength: He's current, but it barely even matters. Moon Knight's powers never really did much for him that he can't replicate without powers anyways.
He stops at Iron Fist. He can beat the first 5 with either of these combinations:
Agility/Reflexes + Webbing
Strength/Durability + Agility/Reflexes
He could beat some of them with other combinations, but probably not Shang-chi or Punisher. No combination of 2 is going to let him beat Iron Fist though.
He stops at Iron Fist. He can beat the first 5 with either of these combinations:
Agility/Reflexes + Webbing
Strength/Durability + Agility/Reflexes
He could beat some of them with other combinations, but probably not Shang-chi or Punisher. No combination of 2 is going to let him beat Iron Fist though.
What's wrong with the order? I don't see Iron Fist hitting Spider-Man with a crazy powerful punch. I didn't include any specific rules, so you should assume it's in character. I also don't see why Shang Chi would be higher on the list either. He's one of the most skilled, but he is by far the weakest physically and in durability.
He stops at Iron Fist. He can beat the first 5 with either of these combinations:
Agility/Reflexes + Webbing
Strength/Durability + Agility/Reflexes
He could beat some of them with other combinations, but probably not Shang-chi or Punisher. No combination of 2 is going to let him beat Iron Fist though.
What's wrong with the order? I don't see Iron Fist hitting Spider-Man with a crazy powerful punch. I didn't include any specific rules, so you should assume it's in character. I also don't see why Shang Chi would be higher on the list either. He's one of the most skilled, but he is by far the weakest physically and in durability.
Iron Fist doesn't need to hit Spider-man with a crazy powerful punch to KO him. He has repeatedly KOed Luke Cage, while in character, with just enough force to knock him out. Iron Fist being in character here is not an issue for him. It's more of an issue for Spider-man really.
Shang-chi is nowhere near the weakest physically. He has better physicals than half the people on this list.
This is the order I would put them in:
Kingpin
Punisher
Moon Knight
Bullseye
Elektra
Shang Chi
Kraven the Hunter
Wolverine
Iron Fist
Green Goblin
That's purely in terms of overall combat ability. Due to the nature of this gauntlet Punisher's rank could vary considerably due to him having access to firearms, making him an unwinnable battle for certain combinations.
@shenkuei: I agree that Shang Chi could beat a lot of the non powered characters, but as far as physicals go, his kung fu is not going to let him beat Spider-Man if Spider-Man has his durability to take hits from characters like the Lizard, Doc Ock, or Rhino who hit anywhere from 10-50 times harder then Shang Chi. Kingpin is much more of a threat then Shang Chi to a super powered character because of his strength and durability. Sometimes it's more about matchups then how they are ranked from power or skill.
Shang Chi can own against pretty much any non powered character, but against Peter Parker I don't see his Kung Fu skill being a big enough factor.
Iron Fist can KO Luke Cage, because he's slow and he can hit him. If Spider-Man has Spider Sense and Agility, Iron Fist will have a hard time connecting with him. Iron Fist has a better chance against powerhouses, then he does against acrobatic characters who can avoid him. He could beat Colossus or Thing easier then he could Spider-Man, even though both of them are at a higher power level.
Also, Moon Knight is just as skilled as Shang Chi, but has much better strength, durability, gear, and looser morals. He should be much higher on the list, because his feats outclass Shang Chi by a pretty big margin in every category besides skill where they are even.
@shenkuei: I agree that Shang Chi could beat a lot of the non powered characters, but as far as physicals go, his kung fu is not going to let him beat Spider-Man if Spider-Man has his durability to take hits from characters like the Lizard, Doc Ock, or Rhino who hit anywhere from 10-50 times harder then Shang Chi. Kingpin is much more of a threat then Shang Chi to a super powered character because of his strength and durability. Sometimes it's more about matchups then how they are ranked from power or skill.
Shang Chi can own against pretty much any non powered character, but against Peter Parker I don't see his Kung Fu skill being a big enough factor.
Iron Fist can KO Luke Cage, because he's slow and he can hit him. If Spider-Man has Spider Sense and Agility, Iron Fist will have a hard time connecting with him. Iron Fist has a better chance against powerhouses, then he does against acrobatic characters who can avoid him. He could beat Colossus or Thing easier then he could Spider-Man, even though both of them are at a higher power level.
Also, Moon Knight is just as skilled as Shang Chi, but has much better strength, durability, gear, and looser morals. He should be much higher on the list, because his feats outclass Shang Chi by a pretty big margin in every category besides skill where they are even.
You are speaking as if Spider-man has all of his powers and abilities here. He only gets two. You made the gauntlet, so I'm sure you know this. Spiderman's durability is not good enough to tank repeated hits from a character that can slice through extremely advanced androids and destroy rock with ease. Not to mention Shang-chi can still hit him with pressure points. Kingpin does not have Shang-chi's striking power or anywhere near his speed. If Pete had all of his abilities he'd win hands-down but he can't beat Shang-chi with just one of the listed powers. He CAN beat him a few other combos which I openly pointed out so I'm being very fair here honestly.
Sure Iron Fist can tag Cage more easily than Spiderman if he has his agility, reflexes and spider sense. You do realize, again, that you limited Spider-man in such a way as to prevent him from having all of his powers at once right? Let's say Spiderman does take that combination to fight against Iron Fist. How is he supposed to KO him? He has a normal human's strength against someone that regularly tanks huge explosions and can drastically speed up his healing via chi. Meanwhile, Iron Fist only needs to land one hit to KO him as Spidey just has a normal person's durability. He wouldn't even need to use chi.
And Moon Knight is not just as skilled as Shang-chi. Last time I checked Moon Knight was an above average fighter, but not elite. Shang-chi is one of Marvel's very best. He is not stronger either, unless you mean with his moon powers. He is also much slower than Shang-chi. And he obviously doesn't outclass him in every category, let alone by a big margin. That's a baseless statement.
@shenkuei: He can have two powers as I pointed out in the OP.
If Pete had all of his abilities he'd win hands-down but he can't beat Shang-chi with just one of the listed powers. He CAN beat him a few other combos which I openly pointed out so I'm being very fair here honestly.
Sure Iron Fist can tag Cage more easily than Spiderman if he has his agility, reflexes and spider sense. You do realize, again, that you limited Spider-man in such a way as to prevent him from having all of his powers at once right?
If he uses these 2 abilities which you pointed out:
1. Spider Sense
4. Superhuman Reflexes and Agility
And Moon Knight is not just as skilled as Shang-chi. Last time I checked Moon Knight was an above average fighter, but not elite. Shang-chi is one of Marvel's very best. He is not stronger either, unless you mean with his moon powers. He is also much slower than Shang-chi. And he obviously doesn't outclass him in every category, let alone by a big margin. That's a baseless statement.
This is far from a baseless statement. In the very first appearance of Moon Knight, it explains that he is a master of every martial art on Earth.
Powers mean literally nothing to Moon Knight. He only had powers for a few issues, and he's capable of doing everything he did with powers even without them. It's made no difference on his feats. Here he is repping 1,100 pounds. That would put his max anywhere between 1,500 and 2,000 pounds for bench press, and he doesn't have powers.
Gallery
Beats and KO's Shroud, who is an expert martial artists and teleporter
Gallery
Here he is trading blows with Hob Goblin. Spider-Man is getting beat this whole fight, but Moon Knight is the only one who can put up a fight.
He defeats and disarms Swordsman. this fight lasts only one page. Moon Knight was able to counter and take out Swordsman after only one attack from Swordsman.
Dodges automatic gunfire from Punisher and disarms him.
Gallery
Fights off evil versions of Black Knight, Beast, Darkhawk, and DareDevil.
There are lots more scans like these. I didn't just pick and choose the best of Moon Knight, I only included random scans. He has much higher feats such as his fights with Werewolf by Night, but I'm sure you've seen those before.
I have no idea where you heard that Moon Knight is just an above average fighter, when his original concept was made to be a dark version of Batman, and they made him just as skilled as Batman. (Moon Knight was created before Dark Knight Rises, so Batman wasn't very "Dark" yet).
@tparks: You trailed off at the beginning of your post there. What were you trying to say after "if he uses these two abilities which you pointed out"? He still loses to either Shang-chi or Iron Fist because they can KO him in one shot and he, with the strength of an ordinary man, is virtually incapable of KOing them.
As far as the Moon Knight scans go that's pretty impressive but I largely stand by what I said. "Above average" may have been an understatement. I meant something more like "good, but not the best". I don't see him as being Batman's equal and I think the majority of people on the Vine would agree with that.
We are sort of going off on a tangent here though. This thread is about Spiderman vs these guys not Shang-chi vs Moon Knight. If you want to make a separate thread for a Shang-chi vs Moon Knight CAV I'd be fine with that.
You trailed off at the beginning of your post there. What were you trying to say after "if he uses these two abilities which you pointed out"? He still loses to either Shang-chi or Iron Fist because they can KO him in one shot and he, with the strength of an ordinary man, is virtually incapable of KOing them.
I was pointing out what I copied from you in bold, then showed you that those were two options as I stated in the OP.
Sure Iron Fist can tag Cage more easily than Spiderman if he has his agility, reflexes and spider sense
Two of the options are:
1. Spider Sense
&
4. Superhuman Reflexes and Agility
That's why I think they are right in their spot in the Gauntlet.
As far as the Moon Knight scans go that's pretty impressive but I largely stand by what I said. "Above average" may have been an understatement. I meant something more like "good, but not the best". I don't see him as being Batman's equal and I think the majority of people on the Vine would agree with that.
The majority of the people on the Vine read Batman and not Moon Knight, so it's a pretty skewed view, as is any thread with Batman in it. If you ask the people who have read both, some would say Moon Knight is higher, some would say Batman, but most would say they are near even. Moon Knight can do anything Batman can do physically. Batman has him in intelligence and tech, but physical feats, they are almost identical.
I would love to do a CAV with Moon Knight vs Shang Chi. Let's keep it on the back burner for now though, I want to finish my other CAV first. That will be a fun one.
That's why I think they are right in their spot in the Gauntlet.
You seemed to miss the part where I pointed out how badly Shang-chi and Iron Fist outclass this nerfed Spidey in terms of striking power and durability because he clearly still loses even with those two powers, as I pointed out before.
The majority of the people on the Vine read Batman and not Moon Knight, so it's a pretty skewed view, as is any thread with Batman in it. If you ask the people who have read both, some would say Moon Knight is higher, some would say Batman, but most would say they are near even. Moon Knight can do anything Batman can do physically. Batman has him in intelligence and tech, but physical feats, they are almost identical.
You have some good points there but the skill feats I have seen for Batman are far better than any skill feats I have seen from Moon Knight.
Just to back up my point about Shang-chi being > Moon Knight, since we are not making a separate thread, here are their fights with Zaran. These fights take place just within a few issues of each other. Shang-chi has beaten Zaran multiple times, like so:
Zaran completely outclasses Moon Knight according to Shang-chi. Moon Knight almost dies trying to fight him:
Hard to choose; some advantages would help him with earlier enemies, but be useless with later. Same applies vise versa. If I had to choose it would be webs and reflexes, but he'd have an alright chance of stopping at Moon Knight.
Powers mean literally nothing to Moon Knight. He only had powers for a few issues, and he's capable of doing everything he did with powers even without them. It's made no difference on his feats. Here he is repping 1,100 pounds. That would put his max anywhere between 1,500 and 2,000 pounds for bench press, and he doesn't have powers.
Has moon knight ever actually bench pressed 1,500-2000 pounds? This might makes sense in real life but not all writers know everything about weight lifting. Also where does it say he is repping 1100 pounds?
Beats and KO's Shroud, who is an expert martial artists and teleporter
Does shroud have feats? Additionally shroud was still conscious at the end of that fight. The fight was interupted. Yea moon knight did take the advantage at the end but shroud landed a lot more hits as well and the outcome seems inconclusive.
Here he is trading blows with Hob Goblin. Spider-Man is getting beat this whole fight, but Moon Knight is the only one who can put up a fight.
He mostly just tossed some bombs at spider-man and the gas bomb got him, he fought moon knight while spider-man was choking on gas and kicked moon knight into a lake and peter went after him. I hardly consider that "spider-man was getting beat the whole time". Spider-man was the one who kicked hob goblins gun away as well. He did show off a good accuracy feat by intercepting the bomb hobgoblin tossed but that was about it.
He defeats and disarms Swordsman. this fight lasts only one page. Moon Knight was able to counter and take out Swordsman after only one attack from Swordsman.
I think shang chi would beat swordsman pretty easily. To my knowledge swordsmans one feat is chumping mac gargan venom but he had a killer croc level jobber aura.
Dodges automatic gunfire from Punisher and disarms him.
Punisher has been stated to pull his shots against heroes all though admittedly that varies from writer to writer. Its a good speed feat but shang chi has dodged bullets after they are fired so I think he can do the same.
Fights off evil versions of Black Knight, Beast, Darkhawk, and DareDevil.
Impressive all though moon knight even comments "the real beast would never have attacked without leverage". And IIRC the dopplegangers in the infinity gauntlet storyline were more feral than the real ones. So I don't think this compares to fighting the real versions.
As for fighting werewolf by night shang chi has fought and held his own with iron fist who stated something like "I may need to use my iron fist in order to win". Which I would consider to be more impressive as iron fist could very well be the best fighter in the marvel universe. And moon knights gear was specially designed to fighting werewolf by night I believe.
Sorry for derailing I just wanted to comment on some of these feats.
@jashro44: I was looking through this thread and I just thought I should point out:
I think shang chi would beat swordsman pretty easily. To my knowledge swordsmans one feat is chumping mac gargan venom but he had a killer croc level jobber aura.
Swordsman's other good showing is holding his own against Speed Demon, but then again in that same series he could barely beat Zemo Jr., someone Bucky beat while drugged and hallucinating. That whole series was plauged with inconsistencies.
@jashro44: I was looking through this thread and I just thought I should point out:
I think shang chi would beat swordsman pretty easily. To my knowledge swordsmans one feat is chumping mac gargan venom but he had a killer croc level jobber aura.
Swordsman's other good showing is holding his own against Speed Demon, but then again in that same series he could barely beat Zemo Jr., someone Bucky beat while drugged and hallucinating. That whole series was plauged with inconsistencies.
@jashro44: I was looking through this thread and I just thought I should point out:
I think shang chi would beat swordsman pretty easily. To my knowledge swordsmans one feat is chumping mac gargan venom but he had a killer croc level jobber aura.
Swordsman's other good showing is holding his own against Speed Demon, but then again in that same series he could barely beat Zemo Jr., someone Bucky beat while drugged and hallucinating. That whole series was plauged with inconsistencies.
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