Spider-Man vs Wolverine (No claws-No webs)

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Erik

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#101  Edited By Erik

@BringnIt said:

Yeah, that makes sense. Justify your misinterpretation of things by admitting you chose to not take into context every single other post I've made in the thread. I know when I read a comic, I just read the last page and formulate all my debates that way.

Lol wow. I never knew it meant so much to you that I read all your posts. And yeah, if you really did not intend to be taken seriously with your post, I certainly did misinterpret it.

So I guess this means you only used PIS examples to make some kind of point then? Whatever that point was, I am sure it was actually masterfully done and it just went over my head.

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pooty

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#102  Edited By pooty

Can Logan hurt Spidey? Yes

Can Logan tag Spidey? Yes

Can Logan KO Spidey? Yes

Can Logan win majority against Spidey? NO. Hell NO

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TheBigRedCheese

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#103  Edited By TheBigRedCheese
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CrisCannibal

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#104  Edited By CrisCannibal

Wolvie!!! Healing factor and rage for the win.

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Super_SoldierXII

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@pooty said:

Can Logan hurt Spidey? Yes

Can Logan tag Spidey? Yes

Can Logan KO Spidey? Yes

Can Logan win majority against Spidey? NO. Hell YES

Lol. Fixed.

Without the webbing or tech to back Peter up, he pretty much already has lost to Logan. He's pinned him with claws to face three times. He's shown he can easily hurt him, easily tag him and soak every single blow Parker lands. The blows Wolverine does land, are without his claws extended.

I think you just say hell no to every thread regarding Wolverine without bothering to inform yourself first.

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soduh2

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#106  Edited By soduh2

So Spider-man's shang-chi training isn't going to be considered? Or does it not make a difference?

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BringnIt

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#107  Edited By BringnIt

soduh2 It will mak him last longer, but he still ultimately doesn't have the damage output to put Logan down, and nerve strikes don't typically work on Logan well. I guess he could technically choke him out, but I don't see that happening.

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pooty

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#108  Edited By pooty

@Super_SoldierXII: He's pinned him with claws to face three times

Those 3 instances you speak of are null and void because logan has no claws in this encounter. While (as shown)above spidey can snap his neck or throw him off. Or bury him under rubble or pin him down.

He's shown he can easily hurt him, easily tag him and soak every single blow Parker lands

Is this just a retelling of what I said in a previous post?

I think you just say hell no to every thread regarding Wolverine without bothering to inform yourself first.

That may be but until proven wrong i'm sticking with it.

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nickthedevil

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#109  Edited By nickthedevil

Okay, you all make logan seem like he's invincible... No. I've seen him ko'd by less than spiderman.

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SirMethos

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#110  Edited By SirMethos

Spider-Man has this pretty easily. Though it's gonna take some time due to Wolverine's durability/regen.

Wolverine isn't fast enough to land a hit on him, while Spider-Man can land a hit whenever he wants.

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Super_SoldierXII

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@SirMethos said:

Spider-Man has this pretty easily. Though it's gonna take some time due to Wolverine's durability/regen.

Wolverine isn't fast enough to land a hit on him, while Spider-Man can land a hit whenever he wants.

Prove it.

If I prove the contrary, via multiple showings, will you cede the point? If it's just a waste of my time, let me know now and I'll leave you to your fan based and completely false opinion.

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Super_SoldierXII

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@pooty said:

@Super_SoldierXII: He's pinned him with claws to face three times

Those 3 instances you speak of are null and void because logan has no claws in this encounter. While (as shown)above spidey can snap his neck or throw him off. Or bury him under rubble or pin him down.

He's shown he can easily hurt him, easily tag him and soak every single blow Parker lands

Is this just a retelling of what I said in a previous post?

I think you just say hell no to every thread regarding Wolverine without bothering to inform yourself first.

That may be but until proven wrong i'm sticking with it.

No. You've been proven wrong in other threads through scans, and by sourcing material and you never changed your opinion. You were too interested in arguing with me for the sake of arguing.

The instances of Wolverine pinning Spider-Man were to show he can tag him at will. And has, in fact, done so. That's why they are pertinent.

As to the efficiency of his fists in this fight, there is a scan in this very thread that was posted showing Wolverine can knock Spider-Man out. In addition to this, I can post scans of;

1) Wolverine knocking out adversaries far stronger than Parker with just his fists;

2) Wolverine proving repeatedly he can tag Parker;

3) Parker proving, repeatedly, he can't do any meaningful damage to Wolverine.

These things I can prove. What can YOU show to substantiate your claim to the contrary? Showing you these, as proof, would I be wasting my time? If you might agree to change your position, I will take the time and point these instances out. If I shouldn't bother, then let me know right off and we can both avoid the frustration.

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Aphile

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#113  Edited By Aphile

@BringnIt said:

@Strider92 That is hardly the original post, and again, took place almost five hours after my comment that you responded to.

I know, that was a mistake on my part

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SirMethos

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#114  Edited By SirMethos

@Super_SoldierXII said:

Prove it.

If I prove the contrary, via multiple showings, will you cede the point? If it's just a waste of my time, let me know now and I'll leave you to your fan based and completely false opinion.

1. My opinion is not fan based. I far prefer Wolverine as a character. It is based on knowledge of their respective capabilities, and logic.

2. It's not false.

I'll try breaking it down for you:

"Wolverine isn't fast enough to land a hit on him"

Spider-Man, with his spider-sense, is fast enough(and with fast enough reflexes) to dodge bullets, even automatic gunfire, and even from multiple gunmen at the same time. Unless you want to claim that Wolverine, or even his punches, is somehow faster than a bullet, any claim of Wolverine being fast enough to tag Spider-Man, is false.

"while Spider-Man can land a hit whenever he wants."

Wolverine regularly gets tagged by people far slower than Spider-Man(Sabretooth is a good example). With Spider-Man's (far)superior speed, he can land hits on Wolverine whenever he wants to.

Now, you're probably gonna say something along the lines of "but Spider-Man gets tagged by far slower opponents as well!", true, but every case of Spider-Man getting tagged by slower opponents, is due to some form of distraction, where his Spider-Sense reacts to the greater danger, and ignores the smaller danger represented by the attack from his opponent(a good example is Cap throwing his shield, Spider-Man reacted to his spider-sense and dodged the shield, while getting tagged by Cap's fist, i.e. the smaller danger).

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VenomousDragon

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#115  Edited By VenomousDragon

Parker grabs logan's hand and smashes it into his face over and over saying "stop hitting your self,stop hitting yourself,stop hitting yourself" until Logan has a stroke from his pure rage and passes out.

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pooty

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#116  Edited By pooty

@Super_SoldierXII: No. You've been proven wrong in other threads through scans, and by sourcing material and you never changed your opinion.

Did you actually prove me wrong in another thread? Did you absolutely prove what you said is a fact? Did you show the exact circumstances of the battle and show evidence to prove your point? I'm thinking you merely gave your opinion. You may have had some substance to them but it's still just your opinion.

The instances of Wolverine pinning Spider-Man were to show he can tag him at will. And has, in fact, done so. That's why they are pertinent

It's pertinent if i said Logan can't tag him and you proved me wrong. But I said Logan can tag him so it's redundant.

In addition to this, I can post scans of

1) Wolverine knocking out adversaries far stronger than Parker with just his fists;

2) Wolverine proving repeatedly he can tag Parker;

3) Parker proving, repeatedly, he can't do any meaningful damage to Wolverine.

Why would those scans concern me when i said Logan can hurt spidey. I said Logan can tag Spidey. Number 3 is wrong because Parker can snap his neck(see scan above). Logan has been KO'ed by people much weaker than Spidey like Sabretooth. So your scans would only prove points we agree on. so what's the point of showing them?

What can YOU show to substantiate your claim to the contrary?

I have said Spidey can break his neck. That Logan has been KO'ed by people weaker than Spidey. That Spidey can bury him under rubble. That Spidey is strong enough to hold Logan down so Logan can't fight. Which one of those points don't you agree with so i can get the scans?

If I shouldn't bother, then let me know right off and we can both avoid the frustration.

The only thing that frustrates me is you are not paying attention and lumping me in with everyone else. You are trying to prove to me things I have already said. The only part we disagree on is "Can Spidey hurt Logan" and that's not really important because I know he can. and I know he can incapacitate him.

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Aphile

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#117  Edited By Aphile

@jashro44 said:

@Erik said:

@jashro44 said:

@Super_SoldierXII: The scans of him 1 shotting spider-man is a low showing for spider-man. I'm not saying he can't ko spider-man but 1 blow isn't going to do it.

Wolverine has showed that a mere flick of his finger can hurt Peter. I do not see why taking an adamantium fist to the head is to be considered a low showing.

Because spider-man has super human durability.Venom threw a car at him and the car was dented and spider-man was still fine. In spider-island the queen of spider-island hit him in the face in her giant spider-form and spider-man was still conscious. Rhino once hit him and sent him flying through buildings and spider-man wasn't knocked out. There was a indecent where crime master was punching spider-man and he remarked punching him was like punching a stone wall, there was another time after spider-man lifted a huge piece of rubble off of him he let some thugs hit him because he was still tired and he stated that he recovered from the fatigue and he better start fighting back because they were beginning to hurt him. Eddie brock once hit spider-man with a chair and it broke. Scorpion has hurt his hand punching spider-man and stated that it was like punching a bulldozer. A heavy weight boxer once broke his hands hitting spider-man. I can post scans of all this if you want? I just don't think wolverine can 1 shot spider-man if he is paying attention. He can knock him out but it will take a few hits.

This I can agree with, but I don't think Spidey would want to get into a boxing match with Wolverine. He could keep his distance and use the environment around him, he could outsmart Logan because that's what he is good at (well, sometimes)

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Aphile

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#118  Edited By Aphile
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Here's part one of one of Wolverine's and Spidey's best fights where it's pure H2H (well, sort of)

No Caption Provided

@Super_SoldierXII said:

@pooty said:

Can Logan hurt Spidey? Yes

Can Logan tag Spidey? Yes

Can Logan KO Spidey? Yes

Can Logan win majority against Spidey? NO. Hell YES

Lol. Fixed.

Without the webbing or tech to back Peter up, he pretty much already has lost to Logan. He's pinned him with claws to face three times. He's shown he can easily hurt him, easily tag him and soak every single blow Parker lands. The blows Wolverine does land, are without his claws extended.

I think you just say hell no to every thread regarding Wolverine without bothering to inform yourself first.

Here are the scans I promised to post, a fight between Wolverine and Spidey in a kind of H2H with Logan having the edge. Sorry for the quality

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metalman24

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#119  Edited By metalman24

well if no weapons are involved than wolverine would win due to his adamantium armor hes made of. i'm assuming.

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Scarlet_Spyder

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#120  Edited By Scarlet_Spyder

I am leaning towards Spidey for this one.

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soduh2

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#121  Edited By soduh2

@BringnIt: Most of the evidence in Wolverine's favor comes from older battles, pre-shang chi training. It really depends on what constitutes a win here. If it's an endurance contest than Wolverine wins, otherwise Spider-man should be able to avoid his attacks.

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Super_SoldierXII

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@SirMethos said:

@Super_SoldierXII said:

Prove it.

If I prove the contrary, via multiple showings, will you cede the point? If it's just a waste of my time, let me know now and I'll leave you to your fan based and completely false opinion.

1. My opinion is not fan based. I far prefer Wolverine as a character. It is based on knowledge of their respective capabilities, and logic.

2. It's not false.

I'll try breaking it down for you:

"Wolverine isn't fast enough to land a hit on him"

Spider-Man, with his spider-sense, is fast enough(and with fast enough reflexes) to dodge bullets, even automatic gunfire, and even from multiple gunmen at the same time. Unless you want to claim that Wolverine, or even his punches, is somehow faster than a bullet, any claim of Wolverine being fast enough to tag Spider-Man, is false.

"while Spider-Man can land a hit whenever he wants."

Wolverine regularly gets tagged by people far slower than Spider-Man(Sabretooth is a good example). With Spider-Man's (far)superior speed, he can land hits on Wolverine whenever he wants to.

Now, you're probably gonna say something along the lines of "but Spider-Man gets tagged by far slower opponents as well!", true, but every case of Spider-Man getting tagged by slower opponents, is due to some form of distraction, where his Spider-Sense reacts to the greater danger, and ignores the smaller danger represented by the attack from his opponent(a good example is Cap throwing his shield, Spider-Man reacted to his spider-sense and dodged the shield, while getting tagged by Cap's fist, i.e. the smaller danger).

Ya, you're missing the point. Your opinion is entirely uninformed and not based on actual showings as Wolverine has tagged Spider-Man many times. Ergo, Wolverine can tag Spider-Man.

It's that simple.

And Sabretooth is actually quite fast based off feats. He's moved faster than the human eye could follow. Disappeared in plain sight. So I fail to see why getting tagged by Creed is to be considered a low end feat. Far better than getting tagged by Rhino ... and I can post many instances where Spidey gets 'tagged' sans distraction so I don't buy it.

As to Spidey landing hits on Logan whenever he wants to, he's completely unloaded on Wolverine multiple times to no avail. So tag away Petey ... just remember, you have to get in close to do so.

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Super_SoldierXII

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@pooty:

Did you actually prove me wrong in another thread? Did you absolutely prove what you said is a fact? Did you show the exact circumstances of the battle and show evidence to prove your point? I'm thinking you merely gave your opinion. You may have had some substance to them but it's still just your opinion.

Yes I did. I corrected your misuse of context and scans (which you had erroneously translated as Steve 'kicking Logan's ass' to use your terms) and gave issue number references answering your every request for proof thereafter. Response from you? Up yours about sums it up nicely.

It's pertinent if i said Logan can't tag him and you proved me wrong. But I said Logan can tag him so it's redundant.

Great. Good to know. Wolverine can tag Spider-Man. Now we're getting somewhere. Moving forward, here's Wolverine KO'ing Spider-Man;

Why would those scans concern me when i said Logan can hurt spidey. I said Logan can tag Spidey. Number 3 is wrong because Parker can snap his neck(see scan above). Logan has been KO'ed by people much weaker than Spidey like Sabretooth. So your scans would only prove points we agree on. so what's the point of showing them?

Characters stating another can or cannot do something is hyperbole unless there are feats to back it. It has since been well established that Wolverine's neck does not break. Your comment is false. Both Bhaal (a 75 tonner) and Hulk have since tried and failed. Wolverine's neck in 616 continuity does not break, his head does not go flying off his shoulders from a Hulk level haymaker, nor do his limbs go flying off in every direction from explosions.

I have said Spidey can break his neck. That Logan has been KO'ed by people weaker than Spidey. That Spidey can bury him under rubble. That Spidey is strong enough to hold Logan down so Logan can't fight. Which one of those points don't you agree with so i can get the scans?

OK. Again, Spider-Man cannot break Logan's neck. Wolverine has been KO'd by folks far more skilled at striking than Spider-Man (Mister X). He has also been hit by folks far stronger than Spider-Man and remained conscious with more consistency. That, and above all else and most pertinent to the debate at hand, is the fact Spider-Man himself, despite his best efforts, has not been able to knock Wolverine out ... he's unloaded on Logan three times without holding back, and couldn't do any meaningful damage whatsoever.

If the best you've got is Spider-Man burying Logan under rubble, then that's pretty weak. Far too weak a chance to give Petey a definitive majority based off other showings and points made herein.

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SirMethos

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#124  Edited By SirMethos

@Super_SoldierXII: You're missing the point.

Will Spider-Man's danger sense warn him several milliseconds before Wolverine's swing comes his way? Yes.

Is Spider-Man fast enough to dodge a swing from Wolverine, when his danger sense has warned him of it? Yes, by a large margin.

Spider-Man doesn't even have to get close to him, he can throw cars as if they were pillows(yes, he's strong enough for that), or simply pick up two cars and beat Wolverine with those, eventually leaving them on top of the canadian hothead, with Wolverine trapped underneath.

And who ever said that getting tagged by Sabretooth was a low end feat? All I said was that getting tagged by Sabretooth is a good example of regularly getting tagged by people considerably slower than Spider-Man, which is simply the truth. Sabretooth is fast, yes, but compared to Spider-Man, he isn't.

Finally, about Spider-Man wailing away on Wolverine. Spider-Man isn't just gonna be punching him in the face. He knows about Wolverine's powers and the Adamantium. Slamming his palms against Wolverine's ears, for example, would do a good deal of harm, and leave Wolverine dazed. Spider-Man could simply catch Wolverine in a choke hold, with Spider-Man's strength, there is absolutely nothing Wolverine can do to get out of it, which means that eventually Wolverine is rendered unconscious due to lack of oxygen.

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pooty

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#125  Edited By pooty

@Super_SoldierXII: Yes I did. I corrected your misuse of context and scans

in your mind you did those things. you never showed Logan fairing well against TWO great H2H fighters.

False. Logan has been KO'ed by weaker and it had nothing to do with striking ability. Those people didn't use pressure points or nerve hits.

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HBKTimHBK

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#126  Edited By HBKTimHBK

I would have to say Spidey here, naturally more agile.

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Strider1992

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#127  Edited By Strider1992

@Super_SoldierXII said:

Great. Good to know. Wolverine can tag Spider-Man. Now we're getting somewhere. Moving forward, here's Wolverine KO'ing Spider-Man;

This isn't really a valid feat.

1. Its sucker punch

2. Spider-man has had his head repeatedly smashed into the floor by Rhino and remained conscious

This incident is like Mr. X KOing Logan. Logan was being downplayed there as Spider-man is here.

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Super_SoldierXII

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@SirMethos said:

@Super_SoldierXII: You're missing the point.

Will Spider-Man's danger sense warn him several milliseconds before Wolverine's swing comes his way? Yes.

Is Spider-Man fast enough to dodge a swing from Wolverine, when his danger sense has warned him of it? Yes, by a large margin.

Spider-Man doesn't even have to get close to him, he can throw cars as if they were pillows(yes, he's strong enough for that), or simply pick up two cars and beat Wolverine with those, eventually leaving them on top of the canadian hothead, with Wolverine trapped underneath.

And who ever said that getting tagged by Sabretooth was a low end feat? All I said was that getting tagged by Sabretooth is a good example of regularly getting tagged by people considerably slower than Spider-Man, which is simply the truth. Sabretooth is fast, yes, but compared to Spider-Man, he isn't.

Finally, about Spider-Man wailing away on Wolverine. Spider-Man isn't just gonna be punching him in the face. He knows about Wolverine's powers and the Adamantium. Slamming his palms against Wolverine's ears, for example, would do a good deal of harm, and leave Wolverine dazed. Spider-Man could simply catch Wolverine in a choke hold, with Spider-Man's strength, there is absolutely nothing Wolverine can do to get out of it, which means that eventually Wolverine is rendered unconscious due to lack of oxygen.

No. You're still missing the point as you cannot seem to grasp that your opinion has nothing to do with their actual showings. Your opinion doesn't mean a thing as it has been proven false on multiple occasions. Why do you not address this point and keep on with your baseless suppositions?

You stated Wolverine cannot hit Spider-Man and you are proven to be flat out wrong - and yet keep on pretending this is somehow not so. Again, fan wanking.

Spider-Man's speed is not out of Logan's depths and Wolverine's superior skill has proven, in actual showings (numerous of them) that he can tag Spider-Man. Why do you keep ignoring this? Who cares about your opinion, other than yourself, when comics have shown you to be wrong?

Again, your opinion is useless as comic book feats prove you wrong.

Prove Wolverine cannot tag Spider-Man, that numerous scans are somehow erroneous, or cede the point that he can.

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spartan92

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#129  Edited By spartan92

Spiderman violently shakes him to death

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Super_SoldierXII

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@pooty:

in your mind you did those things. you never showed Logan fairing well against TWO great H2H fighters.

Pooty, you are so full of it. You asked I post scans OR site a source showing Wolverine taking out multiple skilled opponents. I gave you his most recent showing highlighting him doing just that; Wolverine issue #304. Do you deny this? Do you deny it??? I cannot believe even you have enough nerve to keep denying and outright lying here.

Further to this, do you deny you misquoted the Origins story by claiming Steve kicked the crap out of Wolverine (your words) wherein what really happened is Wolverine beat Steve via an aneurism, and was shown holding back on Steve by punching him sans claws? Do you deny you did this? And do you deny you attempted to post out of context scans claiming they showed something they did not (i.e. Cap versus Logan in AvX #3?). And do you deny you claimed Winter Soldier beat Wolverine in scans presented you, wherein it was Wolverine who actually beat WS (despite WS having prep)? Again, do you deny this? Because I can post links showing exactly what you said if you need your memory refreshed.

So, tell me once more, how is this all in my mind?

False. Logan has been KO'ed by weaker and it had nothing to do with striking ability. Those people didn't use pressure points or nerve hits.

Right. Quick and easy question: Has Spider-Man unloaded, raining punches, on Wolverine before in multiple different occasions? Now, has Spider-Man ever knocked Wolverine out? Mmhm. So why do I need to believe YOU that Spider-Man can knock Wolverine out again? That's right. I do not as you cannot prove he can whereas I can prove he cannot. I don't know why this is so hard to understand. There is no logic to your opinion. Just, well, opinion. Spider-Man cannot knock Wolverine out based off multiple showings. If you want to believe he can, fine. But you cannot prove it and therefore, it is just your opinion and invalid based off showings.

Also, not that it matters here (as we have actual showings of Spider-Man punching Wolverine to no avail), but please reference where Wolverine was KO'd and by whom as your word is pretty useless to me based off past experience and I know of all such showings. Thanks.

If Spider-Man gets close enough to actually try and 'choke' Wolverine, he's going down to a nerve strike or any number of moves. I can post Wolverine dropping folks to nerve strikes (which he rarely has had to do cuz he has, well, claws). That's actually a very silly strategy. And She-Hulk had trouble holding Logan in a 'bear hug'. Like he's just going to let Spider-Man grab him or pin him. Skill much more so than strength are used when reversing holds or submissions, so I am not so worried about Logan there as he has skill in spades. Oddly enough, it's Logan who's pinned Spider-Man in actual showings. Again, you're grasping.

This is boiling down to a hand to hand fist fight. Wolverine has been proven able to hit Spider-Man. Wolverine has been proven able to KO Spider-Man. Wolverine has been proven able to absorb Spider-Mans best shots.

What have you, or anyone here, advocating Spider-Man winning proven? Absolutely nothing. Yeah.

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pooty

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#131  Edited By pooty

@Super_SoldierXII: Pooty, you are so full of it.

that statement is true. Can't deny that one.

Do you deny this? Do you deny it?

Yes. Yes.

Because I can post links showing exactly what you said if you need your memory refreshed.

Yes I need my memory refreshed.

your word is pretty useless to me based off past experience and I know of all such showings.

False. This is a lie. You continually respond to me because my words of truth weigh heavy upon your mind.

What have you, or anyone here, advocating Spider-Man winning proven?

That Spidey is stronger. More agile. Spidey won't give him a chance to KO him. Spidey can squash him with the environement. Spidey can KO him. Pin him down. Incapacitate logan. In one word plus two words: Spidey owns Logan.

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Super_SoldierXII

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@pooty said:

@Super_SoldierXII: Pooty, you are so full of it.

that statement is true. Can't deny that one.

Do you deny this? Do you deny it?

Yes. Yes.

Because I can post links showing exactly what you said if you need your memory refreshed.

Yes I need my memory refreshed.

your word is pretty useless to me based off past experience and I know of all such showings.

False. This is a lie. You continually respond to me because my words of truth weigh heavy upon your mind.

What have you, or anyone here, advocating Spider-Man winning proven?

That Spidey is stronger. More agile. Spidey won't give him a chance to KO him. Spidey can squash him with the environement. Spidey can KO him. Pin him down. Incapacitate logan. In one word plus two words: Spidey owns Logan.

Right.

You're an admitted liar, have a terrible memory and you've no argument based on showings, only opinion.

Long as all that's cleared away. As you were.

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Silver2467

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#133  Edited By Silver2467

Somewhat interested in this, but I'm too lazy right now to read through the entire thread. Could someone give me a brief summary of whatever valid points for either side that have been made so far? Just omit any nonsense that has been introduced.

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texasdeathmatch

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#134  Edited By texasdeathmatch
@Silver2467: Haha do you have an assistant or are you hoping someone is going to summarize 7 pages for you?
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#135  Edited By dernman  Online

I'll go with Spider-Man. I might even give an explanation when I'm not so sleepy.

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#136  Edited By Silver2467
@texasdeathmatch: All of you Viners serve my demands. You should know this by now.
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@Strider92 said:

@Super_SoldierXII said:

Great. Good to know. Wolverine can tag Spider-Man. Now we're getting somewhere. Moving forward, here's Wolverine KO'ing Spider-Man;

This isn't really a valid feat.

1. Its sucker punch

2. Spider-man has had his head repeatedly smashed into the floor by Rhino and remained conscious

This incident is like Mr. X KOing Logan. Logan was being downplayed there as Spider-man is here.

It is valid in so far as it does far more to prove Logan can KO Spider-Man than the inverse. That is all really. To those stating Wolverine cannot KO Parker, I present you with that perfectly valid 616 canon scan of a recent showing stating he can. It's simple really.

1. It doesn't matter if it's a sucker punch. I'm not using those scans to prove Wolverine can tag Spider-Man. I'm using them to show Wolverine has enough knowledge on where and how to hit, with enough knock out power in his adamantium laced fists to KO Spidey. In an open exchange, I agree, Wolverine won't one shot Parker so easily.

2. Spider-Man's head is tougher than said floor. But not tougher than adamantium. And really, who has Rhino KO'd again? I can run a list of folks who've KO'd Rhino if you'd like ... the main point is strength is tertiary to speed and skill when it comes to striking power and landing the knock out blow.

And no, the incident with Mister X is not the same. Mister X has not consistently knocked out folks of Wolverine's known durability whereas Wolverine has knocked out, with fists alone, numerous adversaries stronger than Spider-Man. And Spider-Man has not soaked repeated blows from the likes of WWHulk. So that makes Wolverine getting KO'd by a peak human far more suspect than Spider-Man getting KO'd by Wolverine.

In any case, like I said, at the least it proves Logan has the KO power in his fists alone to take Spider-Man out. There are more comic book showings and actual feats pointing to Wolverine able to 1) KO Spider-Man, 2) tag Spider-Man at will and 3) soak Spider-Man's hardest hits.

Conversely, let me leave you to answer this one question; what feats against Wolverine has Parker got to show he will win in a fist fight? That's right. Nadda. Nothing.

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#138  Edited By Strider1992

@Super_SoldierXII said:

Conversely, let me leave you to answer this one question; what feats against Wolverine has Parker got to show he will win in a fist fight? That's right. Nadda. Nothing.

I'm not debating for either side here as this is just going to turn out to be another Wolverine Vs Spider-man thread that I have neither the will or the interest to take part in. I'm simply pointing out that, that scan isn't very reliable(Logan can KO Spider-man but there is no way it should be that easy) just like i'd point out that Spider-man has no way of KOing Logan. As I said i'm not debating who would win here i'm just debunking a few things (on both sides) that seem odd to me.

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#139  Edited By jashro44

@Erik: I'm sorry if thats the way you feel but I see no other explanation. There are scans in this thread of wolverine hitting spider-man and spider-man not getting 1 shotted. Also alphile posted some scans of spider-man taking some shots from wolverine without getting 1 shotted. Who has wolverine 1 shoted that is on spider-mans level besides spider-man?

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#140  Edited By texasdeathmatch
@Silver2467 said:
@texasdeathmatch: All of you Viners serve my demands. You should know this by now.
Haha sorry, must've slipped my mind, expect a 500 word summary of this thread shortly.
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Super_SoldierXII

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@Silver2467 said:

Somewhat interested in this, but I'm too lazy right now to read through the entire thread. Could someone give me a brief summary of whatever valid points for either side that have been made so far? Just omit any nonsense that has been introduced.

Basically, based off actual showings, Erik and I were arguing Wolverine wins as 1) he's been shown able to KO Parker with fists alone (along with other, stronger, folks like Roughouse, Caliban, Domina etc.), 2) he's proven he can tag Parker just fine on numerous occasions despite 3/4 of the folks here claiming otherwise and 3) it's been shown on no less than three separate occasions that despite Parker having completely unloaded on Logan, he cannot KO him.

Based on these three demonstrated facts, I feel Wolverine has had more on panel showings proving he'd win in a brawl outside of incapacitation.

The only arguments presented for Spider-Man winning are opinion based (i.e. he's faster and stronger and therefore he wins. The end.)

That's my personal rundown for ya.

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#142  Edited By jashro44

@Super_SoldierXII said:

@Silver2467 said:

Somewhat interested in this, but I'm too lazy right now to read through the entire thread. Could someone give me a brief summary of whatever valid points for either side that have been made so far? Just omit any nonsense that has been introduced.

Basically, based off actual showings, Erik and I were arguing Wolverine wins as 1) he's been shown able to KO Parker with fists alone (along with other, stronger, folks like Roughouse, Caliban, Domina etc.), 2) he's proven he can tag Parker just fine on numerous occasions despite 3/4 of the folks here claiming otherwise and 3) it's been shown on no less than three separate occasions that despite Parker having completely unloaded on Logan, he cannot KO him.

Based on these three demonstrated facts, I feel Wolverine has had more on panel showings proving he'd win in a brawl outside of incapacitation.

The only arguments presented for Spider-Man winning are opinion based (i.e. he's faster and stronger and therefore he wins. The end.)

That's my personal rundown for ya.

The argument for spider-man is that he uses the environment and drops something heavy on wolverine that he cannot lift. This would allow spider-man to incapacitate wolverine.

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#143  Edited By Silver2467
@Super_SoldierXII: Thanks. 
 
I think the argument for Wolverine is fine. Without his claws, he would probably be more inclined to adopt his martial skills as well, which are superior to Spider-Man's own. However, unlike in the past where Parker's lack of combat training has been a severe detriment to him, he has now received some formal training from Shang-Chi. And while I don't consider him a master or in Marvel's upper tier, this could partially diminish Logan's skill advantage over him. Not that the edge would be completely neutralized, because Logan's skill  is among the best on Marvel earth, but it could serve Spider-Man better. That said, have Spider-Man or Wolverine ever fought since Spidey was trained? Because that would probably be the most indicative. The previous fights are still legitimate, but since Spidey now knows how to incorporate his powers in conjunction with a decent measure of skill, he would most likely present a greater challenge to Wolverine than he has before. Conceivably, assuming he knows the proper techniques, he might be able to strike Wolverine at more vulnerable portions of his body to achieve superior damage as opposed to just throwing random punches and kicks. 
 
This isn't an argument for Spider-Man, mind you; I'm just considering possibilities.
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Super_SoldierXII

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@jashro44 said:

@Super_SoldierXII said:

@Silver2467 said:

Somewhat interested in this, but I'm too lazy right now to read through the entire thread. Could someone give me a brief summary of whatever valid points for either side that have been made so far? Just omit any nonsense that has been introduced.

Basically, based off actual showings, Erik and I were arguing Wolverine wins as 1) he's been shown able to KO Parker with fists alone (along with other, stronger, folks like Roughouse, Caliban, Domina etc.), 2) he's proven he can tag Parker just fine on numerous occasions despite 3/4 of the folks here claiming otherwise and 3) it's been shown on no less than three separate occasions that despite Parker having completely unloaded on Logan, he cannot KO him.

Based on these three demonstrated facts, I feel Wolverine has had more on panel showings proving he'd win in a brawl outside of incapacitation.

The only arguments presented for Spider-Man winning are opinion based (i.e. he's faster and stronger and therefore he wins. The end.)

That's my personal rundown for ya.

The argument for spider-man is that he uses the environment and drops something heavy on wolverine that he cannot lift. This would allow spider-man to incapacitate wolverine.

That's possible. But it's not really Spider-Man's standard modus operandi. He'd start by engaging Logan leaving plenty of chances for an open exchange. I don't see Spider-Man throwing cars around and toppling buildings Hulk style.

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#145  Edited By soduh2

@Super_SoldierXII said:

The only arguments presented for Spider-Man winning are opinion based (i.e. he's faster and stronger and therefore he w

That's my personal rundown for ya.

Nothing about the fact that the all (if not the majority) of Wolverine's feats come prior to Spider-man's training with Shang Chi (broken record, I know). Meaning he's faster and stronger AND knows how to use his strength and speed more efficiently (as of this year).

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Super_SoldierXII

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@Silver2467 said:

@Super_SoldierXII: Thanks.

I think the argument for Wolverine is fine. Without his claws, he would probably be more inclined to adopt his martial skills as well, which are superior to Spider-Man's own. However, unlike in the past where Parker's lack of combat training has been a severe detriment to him, he has now received some formal training from Shang-Chi. And while I don't consider him a master or in Marvel's upper tier, this could partially diminish Logan's skill advantage over him. Not that the edge would be completely neutralized, because Logan's skill is among the best on Marvel earth, but it could serve Spider-Man better. That said, have Spider-Man or Wolverine ever fought since Spidey was trained? Because that would probably be the most indicative. The previous fights are still legitimate, but since Spidey now knows how to incorporate his powers in conjunction with a decent measure of skill, he would most likely present a greater challenge to Wolverine than he has before. Conceivably, assuming he knows the proper techniques, he might be able to strike Wolverine at more vulnerable portions of his body to achieve superior damage as opposed to just throwing random punches and kicks. This isn't an argument for Spider-Man, mind you; I'm just considering possibilities.

@soduh2:

Yes. The Shang Chi training. Well, if each combatants are fighting to the best of their ability, and if we point to Parker's training under Shang Chi, I would point to Logan's training in Manifest Destiny which saw him destroy Rock of the Buddha with a touch, moving on to dismantling the other three masters in hand to hand, without his claws - despite their supernatural powers and skill. Not sure how well Parker would fare in a hand to hand brawl against Wolverine at his best.

And a feral Wolverine completely dismantled Spider-Man's martial master in hand to hand in a few short panels. Wolverine even had Shang calling him 'master' at the end of a flashback sequence in Origins which saw Logan turning to Shang to rediscover himself and his inner zen. Pretty sure there's nothing skill wise Shang could teach Parker in a few month's time that could help him overly much against a top tier like Logan who humbled said teacher quite easily using skill alone. But I admit, it doesn't hurt his chances.

As to vulnerable areas, nerve strikes and their ilk have consistently proven ineffective against Wolverine. Echo has tried and failed and Elektra could only keep him incapacitated for as long as she held her sais in place. As soon as they were removed, the healing factor repaired the damage.

But you are making some good points and a modern day hand to hand brawl between the two would be fun to watch.

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#147  Edited By lady_liberty

@Silver2467: The long and short of the valid arguments on both sides though the thread have been that:

A: Spiderman's powers give him a huge advantage in speed, agility, strength, and precognition. The weight of powers favors Parker. By any method of logic he should win.

B: Regardless of who 'should' win, Logan has almost always dominated Parker in their fights, and thus the weight of feats is on his side. He should win.

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#148  Edited By Silver2467
@Super_SoldierXII: I never meant to insinuate that Peter's combat training from Shang would place him on anything even remotely approaching an equalized skill basis with Wolverine, and I'm also aware of Wolverine's victory over Shang. However, the key here is my point about Spider-Man's physical stats in conjunction with his training. If Spider-Man were a non-metahuman character, his training would probably amount to very little. What makes it useful is possessing superhuman physical traits to supplement it. 
 
Regarding nerve strikes and the like, none of the characters you mentioned are on Spider-Man's physical level. Do I think that Spider-Man could easily or even likely drop Wolverine with a precision technique? Not really. But the possibility of it should be factored in. Chances are, the fight between the two would be protracted long enough for both characters to sustain several hits, and should Spider-Man decide on this tactic, he could land multiple precision strikes which, packed with his strength and the repeated use of them, could eventually take their toll on Logan. 
 
This is just a thought. Honestly, I don't really know who would win. I could see a case being made for either side at this point, but this is just me. 
 
@jashro44 said: 

The argument for spider-man is that he uses the environment and drops something heavy on wolverine that he cannot lift. This would allow spider-man to incapacitate wolverine.

Hmm, this potentially could happen, but the problem with forming an argument around a scenario or tactic this specific is that it requires a huge amount of evidence to support it. Spider-Man, like most street levelers, is adept at using the environment to his benefit during fights, but also like most street levelers, he generally does this against powerhouses or characters with a more esoteric power. Spider-Man has elected this strategy against characters like Juggernaut, Blob, Electro, Rhino, and so on, but all of them are either slow brutes with no combat speed or skill to speak of or possess a more varied ability that requires Spider-Man to respond to them more indirectly. I have never seen Spider-Man choose to just drop objects or rubble on Wolverine in any of their fights. Maybe he has given how numerous their encounters are, but even if he did a minority of instances, there is no reason to assume he would for a majority here.
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@Lady_Liberty said:

@Silver2467: The long and short of the valid arguments on both sides though the thread have been that:

A: Spiderman's powers give him a huge advantage in speed, agility, strength, and precognition. The weight of powers favors Parker. By any method of logic he should win.

B: Regardless of who 'should' win, Logan has almost always dominated Parker in their fights, and thus the weight of feats is on his side. He should win.

I would add two things left unsaid when pointing out Parker's 'advantages'. Namely, his significant disadvantages which are probably why numerous writers see Logan (outside of incapacitation) as a bad fight for Spider-Man;

Wolverine is 1) far more durable, and particularly resistant to blunt force trauma, and 2) far more skilled in hand to hand.

Other than that, the assessment was fair.

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#150  Edited By soduh2

@Super_SoldierXII: The issue is Spider-man received training to compensate for his lost Spider-sense. Once it came back on he was able to utilize his training with his spider-sense "in harmony". While Logan does have an unbreakable skeleton and healing factor Spider-man can give him a few punches to his joints, throat, and stomach to at least buckle him down for a while. I guess if it's a fight to the death Wolverine has it because he'll keep coming back, but if it's who will KO who first I'd say Spider-man.

Edit: The spider-sense/shang chi training/speed advantage, plus repeated attacks should at least buckle him down, I should say.