Spider-Man vs Superior Spider-Man

Agreed it doesn't change the fact it would be a close fight, but Ock is still Ock and Peter used his ever-abundant arrogance against him (Peter states "he can't imagine a future where he doesn't win" and then proceeds to use that to his advantage) and that's something that doesn't change with a body. It's who Ock is.

His tech and ruthlessness have always been what have caused Peter problems, and that's not changing. A fight between both Spiders is going to be close, which is why Peter wanted to end it quickly since they had more pressing matters with the Inheritors.

But overall I think you sum it best. That fight in and of itself isn't 100% proof of Peter's win, but it provides enough evidence to the eventual outcome.

Thats true. I guess you could argue its Ock's fault for letting his guard down. All though yea the fight itself isn't proof just the things within the fight.

Still Peter.

Good Old Pete will win.

Spider-Man (Parker).

@jashro44: Peter only outsmarted Ock by taking advantage of already established conditions he didn't have control of. Doesn't prove he could do it in a random.

Not really…it's not as is SpOck failed to dodge his own attacks at any point. All that really proves is that he can avoid Otto from a range. Peter's more accurate but that shouldn't matter since he can just rip through his webs.

Otto with Peters experiences will know how to defeat him better than he ever has before. He now knows his fears, insecurities, what makes him flinch and Peters emotional limits. He has the upper hand because he can exploit all these areas that Pete hasn't shown anyone before.

Peter wins.

I never said otherwise.

Otto isn't the one who needs to dodge his own attacks.

@theendgame: otto didn't have Peres experience

@comicsrulebutdbzdoes2: sure he did. He has all of his memories which convinced him to be a hero. He felt obligated.

He deleted some of Peters memories and he only had access to the memories he accessed specifically.

I still got Peter winning this.

@jashro44: specific memories are enough to make my argument a valid one.

Otto isn't smarter than Peter .

He doesn't have the fighting skills that Peter plearned from training with Shang Chi.

Peter has proven that he has the will to do amazing feats that should be beyond his physical capabilities and otto hasn't.

Spock loses this fight.

What specific memory is Otto going to use to his advantage?

@jashro44: Was it ever concluded that we are aware of all the memories available to Ock? Can I just say that Ock remembers different times Peter opted to try and be witty at innopportune times, or when going for a death blow or K.O. Shot Peter lets up because of his caring nature. As in when SpOck humiliates wolverine, because he can, when Peter never would. He can probably recall times when Peter didn't go for that kill shot and probably should have. Knowing Peter isn't bloodlusted by nature means with the same power set its almost a certainty that Peter would struggle to defend against a more ruthless version of himself. I'm not saying this is all it would take but since you asked, here's my example.

Yes it was actually shown on panel what memories Ock has access to. I don't see how your example helps. It doesn't take knowing every aspect of Peter parkers life to know Peter wont kill. Otto being more brutal is an advantage but its not enough to give him the win. And the problem with your reasoning is SpOck is not a more ruthless version of Peter. He has a different personality and his own character flaws.

I saw that coming lol.

@jashro44: well then I stand corrected on the specific memory info. I'm not saying that SpOck is a more ruthless incarnation of Peters psyche but rather in the same physical form a more brutal and aggressive combatant. I agree with you that SpOcks own character flaws could become his downfall. I.E. Pride, arrogance. However in my opinion Superior Spider-Man's mean streak would catch a whimsical Peter off guard and while he can dodge slower and more clumsy opponents I think SpOck can tag him. K.O.

To be honest Im trying to keep this from being a lopsided thread;)

SpOck can tag him but I don't think he can kill Peter. As for SpOcks brutality catching Peter off guard Peter is aware of his brutality.

SSM wins. Peter's powers, plus superior tech and no morals.

Spock. Certainly not a stomp however, but his suit and tech is superior, and he has Pete's powers, so I'm gonna have to go with Superior Spidey. Be free to disagree with me, I don't mind.

@jashro44: He is aware of Oct's aggression in his normal form not necessarily with his own powerset and abilities. Let's be honest in a straight up fight Peter has always had every physical advantage. Not this time.

Peter already showed he can avoid his tech. He doesn't have Peters training under shang chi and he hasn't shown to be as intuned with his spider-sense either.

I don't see how SpOck having better physicals means Peter wont be aware of his brutality. Even with even physicals Peter still has the edge in skill and experience fighting spider people, which is something Otto doesn't really have.

@jashro44: I wouldn't say that Otto doesn't have experience fighting Spider "people" it seems clear to me that he's got experience fighting the only one that matters.

How many times in the middle of a battle he had with Peter did he think to himself...

"If I had that kind of power I would destroy him!"

Well yes he's fought Peter as dock ock but not in a spider body which is a bit different.

Well Peter officially beat SpOck while weakened. Granted to SpOcks credit he did beat spider woman, and was fighting spider girl for a time, but than when it came down to just Peter and Otto, Otto tapped out. Heres the full fight:

http://imgur.com/a/m7ujH

But here is what happened when it came down to Peter and Otto (Peter literally slams him into the curb LOL):

Also worth noting is Peter was weakened in this fight, from having his life force drained by Morlun:

So pretty good showing of skill for Peter since I don't recall Otto being drained. So I guess we have our answer....

Spidey

Park Spider-Man because he has much greater experience using his abilities, Way of the Spider martial arts, and know's how to use Spider-Sense better.

Although Superior 'Ock' Spidey will put a great fight with no PIS.

Bump. Otto has some legit feats so far this year

Bumpski

On paper the one who doesn’t hold back.... but if the fight were to happen Peter would always win he is infact the superior Spider-Man.

Parker.

Bump and Otto wins this.

Peter is literally the superior Spider-Man here. In all categories worth measuring.

@blackspidey2099: idk Otto has some crazy tech he’s been using lately and has some impressive feats. I mean he was tank in War Of the Realms, he downed Count Nefaria a few weeks ago, he held his own against a freaking herald level character before depowering him and he embraced his spider sense and been using his nanobots to greater effect!

@supermanwithatan01: Yeah, I've read all those comics and the only thing that impressed me was the phasing and the anti-magic tech. In terms of overall tech though, Peter is still leagues ahead. This isn't a prep battle though, so I don't think tech is all that relevant here.

@blackspidey2099: well no it’s not but Ottos tech is with him a lot. A lot is built in and a lot is called in via the bots. I didn’t know Peters tech was so far ahead though.

Yeah, but I don't think any of the tech Otto has on him is going to be of much use vs Peter. It's basically stuff like sonic blasters and ink webbing and stuff.

And yeah, Peter's far better with tech/science than Ock is.

@blackspidey2099: oh I see. Not that I necessarily disagree but has Peter done anything crazy lately? Otto BFRd the entire city to another dimension or something with minimal time, which was a crazy feat. I know Peter has some legit feats, I’m just not familiar with anything he’s done lately.

On a side note, do you know what happened to Kaine?

Otto is more ruthless, and smarter. I'm sure he would win OOC, but IC he doubts himself or overlooks/over thinks Peter's capabilities which eventually leads to his defeat.

Peter eventually overcomes Ottos assault, and then pummels him.

@smoothsanta: would you say it’s his character flaw that holds him back?

@supermanwithatan01: Yes definitely.

Anyone else?

Sorry I missed this comment of yours. The best intellect related things Peter's done recently are:

• Coming up with a chaos distribution theory (or something like that) while fighting off an alien invasion in order to stop the invasion, even though none of the Avengers or Guardians of the Galaxy were able to stop the invasion. It was also explicitly stated that Peter's chaos theory was better than the theory Doc Ock used as his PhD thesis in Superior Spider-Man.
• Hacking a whole army of tri-sentinel robots, each of which are like high tier at least based on how they fares against Captain Universe Spider-Man.
• Building a detector for interdimensional particles.

As for Kaine, he's been kind of MIA ever since that recent Ben Reilly: Scarlet Spider series, unfortunately. I think Ben got corrupted by Mephisto or something and stabbed Kaine a bunch of times. After that I think he had a mini-series during Spider-Geddon. It was called Spider Force IIRC.