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#1 Edited by jashro44 (22750 posts) - - Show Bio

VS

Rules

win by any means necessary

morals are one

random encounter

Both have standered gear

Location

Both begin visible

begin 20 feat apart

fight takes place here:

Who wins and why?

#2 Posted by VenomousDragon (942 posts) - - Show Bio

"win by any means necessary" seems to clash with morals on.

#3 Edited by Strider92 (16720 posts) - - Show Bio

The fan in me really really wants to say Kaine but:

Kaine doesn't really have the feats to justify him beating Spider-man yet although he does have the potential so I can't really say who'd win. Going by feats alone its got to be Parker. Perhaps in a few more issues we'll get some better stuff from Kaine.

#4 Posted by Morpheus_ (29873 posts) - - Show Bio
Probably Kaine.
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#5 Posted by NEEK_03 (1200 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strider92 said:

Kaine doesn't really have the feats to justify him beating Spider-man yet although he does have the potential so I can't really say who'd win. Going by feats alone its got to be Parker. Perhaps in a few more issues we'll get some better stuff from Kaine.

this. parker is the original and the spidersense give him an edge but kaine's other attributes are greater then parkers i believe.

#6 Posted by BringnIt (3809 posts) - - Show Bio

Parker. Kaine really only has a strength advantage, in my opinion. I think spider sense, intelligence, fighting skills, and better overall gadgetry compensates for that in my opinion, and Kaine's more vicious nature isn't going to surface against Peter.

#7 Posted by Morpheus_ (29873 posts) - - Show Bio
@BringnIt said:
Parker. Kaine really only has a strength advantage, in my opinion.  
I don't see Spidey intentionally propelling himself off a skyscraper and landing on his feet on a moving vehicle (and utterly destroying the vehicle) anytime soon, though. Durability is important. And in standard gear (EotE armor notwithstanding), Peter doesn't really have much to help him against Kaine. At least not anything he has used more than once in his current run. On the other hand, Kaine's suit is fairly useless against Peter, too. Intelligence is the same, and the ways Peter is more apt (science) don't really apply here. Fighting skill is indeed an important aspect, in case Peter decides to use pressure points. Kaine never really had a spider sense in the way Peter does but he never seemed to have many issues to land some hits, and now he uses speed more frequently than he used to, on top of his Other abilities, which should also give him a boost in speed. 
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#8 Posted by Petey_is_Spidey (2862 posts) - - Show Bio

I win.

I.A.T.

#9 Posted by BringnIt (3809 posts) - - Show Bio

Destroying vehicles isn't really Spider-Man's M.O., though. I don't know if it's an issue of he couldn't do it, so much as he wouldn't. Remember, he did tank a vehicle Flash threw at him by ramming it with his shoulder and I believe that vehicle was pretty fubared afterward. I do agree Kaine utilizes his speed moreso now than he once did, but I guess I look back to their most recent encounter when Kaine was in man-spider form and how the combination of Spider Fu and spider sense allowed Parker to pretty thoroughly outfight Kaine, who appeared to have enough of his faculties to be fully aware of Parker's pre-Way of the Spider capabilities based on the dialogue during Spider Island. I was counting EoE armor toward Parker's gear toward this fight, but I'll give you he doesn't use a lot of the referenced gear like chill pellets frequently. Lastly, even though technically they are of equal intelligence, Parker is more versed not only in the sciences but I think he has a more proven track record of using his intelligence to overcome physically superior combatants on the spur of the moment.

#10 Posted by Morpheus_ (29873 posts) - - Show Bio
@BringnIt: I remember, and I'm one of those preaching the gospel that Spider-Man should never be really hurt by anything short of characters in the multiple tons range (whenever people bring up someone like, say, Cap hurting him), but Kaine flat out jumped off a skyscraper and trashed it without any damage to himself. That's pretty impressive. Peter did outfight Kaine in his Spider King form, but then again, that was not really Kaine in the capacity we once knew him, or we do now, at least not physically, which is why I believe this fight would play out very differently in comparison, regardless of winner. As far as intellect goes, yes, Spidey does have a penchant for improvisation, but he also has the benefit of fighting characters that are of below average intellect (at least most of the time), so some environment utilization would logically be something Kaine will see coming rather easily, particularly given the location.
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#11 Posted by BringnIt (3809 posts) - - Show Bio

Fair enough. For the record, I think it's a very close matchup. Kaine is a straight up boss and one of my favorites. I think that sans Ends of the Earth armor, Parker takes a slim majority for the reasons I stated as well as my belief that Kaine would hold back against Peter in character. I think with Parker's current armor, though, he takes a strong majority here.

#12 Posted by Morpheus_ (29873 posts) - - Show Bio
I'm an issue behind (I didn't read last week's ASM yet), but I admittedly expected more from that armor. Hopefully he does some good stuff in it that I am not yet aware of.
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#13 Posted by redhood21 (815 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree that Kaine in his new series (awesome) hasnt had any real feats, but having all of peters powers plus some extras and a lack of moral fiber at times would give him the edge in a brawl. the question should be Ben Reilly vs Scarlet Spider Kaine. :D anyone? no? ok :(

#14 Posted by Morpheus_ (29873 posts) - - Show Bio
@redhood21 said:
I agree that Kaine in his new series (awesome) hasnt had any real feats, but having all of peters powers plus some extras and a lack of moral fiber at times would give him the edge in a brawl. the question should be Ben Reilly vs Scarlet Spider Kaine. :D anyone? no? ok :(
Kaine has practically made a profession out of beating up Ben, that shouldn't change now.
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#15 Posted by Dark_Vengeance_ (14936 posts) - - Show Bio

@Petey_is_Spidey said:

I win.

I.A.T.

B**ch, I'm Batman.

#16 Posted by BringnIt (3809 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah, I think Kaine would beat Ben pretty handily still.

#17 Posted by Dernman (15222 posts) - - Show Bio

I would say Spider-Man normally but did anyone see the caption? 
 
 
It said Spider-Man year one. Unless I'm wrong that was intentional. 
So I say Kain. Year one Spidy is inexperienced and not physically at his peek.

#18 Posted by Morpheus_ (29873 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dernman: Since the picture actually is from the Season One GN that was released just now, I think it's just a matching description for that pic (which is included automatically by adding the picture) instead for an Spider-Man being in his early years here.
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#19 Posted by jashro44 (22750 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dernman: I didn't notice the caption to be honest. This is meant to be pre ends of the earth spider-man (meaning no armor).

#20 Posted by Immortal777 (7671 posts) - - Show Bio

Ill go with Kaine

Kaine and Spidey stats are equal Kaine being a little more durable and Spidey having the spider sense but all in all I think it comes down to the morals which kaine lack of will help him win by a hair.

#21 Posted by SlimJ87D (10291 posts) - - Show Bio

@Immortal777 said:

Ill go with Kaine

Kaine and Spidey stats are equal Kaine being a little more durable and Spidey having the spider sense but all in all I think it comes down to the morals which kaine lack of will help him win by a hair.

I don't think Kaine's morals are a factor as he is on different standings for Peter now. He died for Peter before. I don't think he's going to try and harm Peter, so the morals aren't an issue in this fight.

I'm going with Peter due to Spider-sense and experience with his powers. Kaine can't even web swing as good as Peter, I can't imagine him fighting as well as Peter can due to spider senses.

#22 Posted by BringnIt (3809 posts) - - Show Bio

Kaine is likely a 25 tonner compared to Peter's 10 ton, and morals won't help Kaine here. He is a tough customer, but much like Wolverine he does have morals, and he practically hero worships Peter.

#23 Posted by NEEK_03 (1200 posts) - - Show Bio

@Morpheus_: True but he also has very intelligent foes like norman, otto, lizard. i think parker is better at using his surroundings.

#24 Posted by Morpheus_ (29873 posts) - - Show Bio
@NEEK_03 said:

@Morpheus_: True but he also has very intelligent foes like norman, otto, lizard. i think parker is better at using his surroundings.

He doesn't normally outsmart those guys in combat, though. And the Lizard is not only feral nine times out of then that he fights Spider-Man, but Peter has never once truly beat him physically, either.
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#25 Posted by jayskee (1905 posts) - - Show Bio

peter

#26 Posted by BringnIt (3809 posts) - - Show Bio

@Morpheus_ said:

I'm an issue behind (I didn't read last week's ASM yet), but I admittedly expected more from that armor. Hopefully he does some good stuff in it that I am not yet aware of.

He actually used it to single-handedly take down the Phoenix, can't believe you missed it.

#27 Posted by Petey_is_Spidey (2862 posts) - - Show Bio

@DarkKnightDetective said:

@Petey_is_Spidey said:

I win.

I.A.T.

B**ch, I'm Batman.

I'm Spiderman, The White Knight, I think...

I.A.T.

#28 Posted by Erik (33329 posts) - - Show Bio

@Morpheus_ said:

Probably Kaine.

Really? I wonder about that because while Kaine has the more powerful Other powers, he does not have a spider sense. I would assume the slightly weaker and slower Spider-Man would make up for it by just having that autopilot precog business.

#29 Posted by jashro44 (22750 posts) - - Show Bio

@VenomousDragon said:

"win by any means necessary" seems to clash with morals on.

What do you mean?

#30 Posted by Strider92 (16720 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@VenomousDragon said:

"win by any means necessary" seems to clash with morals on.

What do you mean?

I think he got "win by any means" confused. For example it could be misinterpreted as saying Spider-man could rip Kaine's limbs off giving him the win but clashing wit his morals.

I'm guessing what you were referring to by "win by any means" was the options of the win. Eg: through incapacitation, KO etc...

#31 Posted by SlimJ87D (10291 posts) - - Show Bio

@Erik: Something we don't have definite confirmation is Kaine's strength. I'm not sure if he is at 20 tons, there hasn't been a handbook entry for the new Kaine has there?

#32 Posted by Erik (33329 posts) - - Show Bio

@SlimJ87D said:

@Erik: Something we don't have definite confirmation is Kaine's strength. I'm not sure if he is at 20 tons, there hasn't been a handbook entry for the new Kaine has there?

Not that I can recall but he has displayed the other... uh... Other powers sans the spider sense, I have no idea why he would not be at 20 tons. Actually, I am wondering why he does not have the amped spider sense.

#33 Posted by Atora (8 posts) - - Show Bio

If morals are on then this fight shouldn't even exist buuut... My money's on Pete. I'm not sure what the official stats for either of them are but it stands to reason that Kaine's stronger/more durable and Pete's faster/more agile. Sure Kaine could knock Pete out with a few good hits, but he'd have to catch him first and even if he does, Pete's a pro when it comes to last minute escapes. That and Pete's got the whole spider-sense and experience thing going for him. Peter learned a lot in his pre-college years and Kaine doesn't have that, and what Kaine does have he hasn't had the chance to put most of it to practice. But again, by its own rules, this fight is non-existant. Now that they regard each other as brothers the most we can realistically expect from them is a sparring match (if there's no mind-control in the works to make it otherwise). Here's my question though: Kaine vs Shathra(a.k.a Spider-Wasp)?

#34 Posted by Lance Bastro (4744 posts) - - Show Bio

@BringnIt said:

Kaine is likely a 25 tonner compared to Peter's 10 ton, and morals won't help Kaine here. He is a tough customer, but much like Wolverine he does have morals, and he practically hero worships Peter.

spiderman at rest is a 10 tonner, but he can lift more when trying. at desperation, he could seemingly lift over 40 tons.

#35 Posted by jashro44 (22750 posts) - - Show Bio

@SlimJ87D: Well I'm not sure if he has the other powers exactly (not sure where everyone is getting that info from) but he seems to be comparable to peter in terms of strength/striking force. The crater he caused in scarlet spider #2 seems to be comparable to the crater spider-man created when he punched flash venom in venom#3.

@Atora: Hero's fight each other all the time with morals on. Daredevil fought captain America recently while both were in morals, captain America fought gambit while both were in morals, etc. There are scenarios where the 2 will fight while in morals regardless of there bond.

#36 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

@Morpheus_ said:

Probably Kaine.
#37 Posted by jashro44 (22750 posts) - - Show Bio

@jeanroygrant: Why do you think Kaine wins?

#38 Posted by redhood21 (815 posts) - - Show Bio

leave ben alone you heathens!!! KING IN THE NORTH!!!

#39 Posted by VenomousDragon (942 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strider92: Thats what i thought he meant.

#40 Posted by Shawnbaby (10867 posts) - - Show Bio

If Kaine is in character he'd probably rather die than risk killing Peter. 

#41 Posted by Super_SoldierXII (6464 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm going to say Spider-Man.

#42 Posted by jashro44 (22750 posts) - - Show Bio

@Super_SoldierXII:Reason?

#43 Posted by Super_SoldierXII (6464 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@Super_SoldierXII:Reason?

Mostly because of precog with a dash of WotS coupled with the fact he's been at web slinging longer. And that never hurts.

Superior strength and speed are huge advantages. But Pete's got the other side of that coin working for him now. Skill (unless Kain has likewise been training with the likes of Shang Chi?).

I tend to put more stock in slightly higher skill levels. Knowing what your opponent will do beforehand will definitely offset the speed advantage and then some IMHO.

Plus, I'm partial to Parker ;P

#44 Posted by ComicStooge (13357 posts) - - Show Bio

Wouldn't Peter's superior skills and spier sense put him above Kaine?

#45 Edited by Strider92 (16720 posts) - - Show Bio

@ComicStooge said:

Wouldn't Peter's superior skills and spier sense put him above Kaine?

As a clone Kaine does not set off Peter's spider-sense. In the clone saga we saw that Ben, Peter and Kaine did not trip off each other's senses so spider-sense is void here. However Peter has better feats and is indeed more skilled. Pete most likely wins. Maybe in the new year we'll see some awesome feats for Kaine allowing him to compete.

#46 Posted by darktiger (4622 posts) - - Show Bio

@Morpheus_ said:

Probably Kaine.
#47 Posted by laflux (16770 posts) - - Show Bio

Meh, Dock Ock.

#48 Posted by jashro44 (22750 posts) - - Show Bio

BUMP since Kaine has more showings now.

#49 Posted by dondave (38402 posts) - - Show Bio

Kaine

#50 Posted by oceanmaster21 (8473 posts) - - Show Bio

kaine wins