Spider-man VS Captain America and Wolverine.

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patrat18

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Spidey is Peter Parker.

Random encounter.

Bloodlusted.

Battle takes place in NY.

Win by any means necessary.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

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laflux

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#3  Edited By laflux

If this is Peter Pre Issue 700, I'll go with him in a tight fight.

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ForeverEvil

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My boy Spidey

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Wolverine008

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#5  Edited By Wolverine008

I think this fight can go for a 50/50 split depending exactly on how Captain America and Wolverine approach this fight. Bloodlusted, Spider-Man isn't going to opting for his webbing as much as he usually does and will try for more brawling and blunt force trauma. This is pretty good news for Wolverine since he has the capacity to soak up any blunt force trauma Spider-Man can dish out and can do great damage at close range with his adamantium claws (Which a bloodlusted Logan will most likely be trying to use for some hard stabbing and dismemberment), but this puts Captain America in a tight spot since he isn't the damage soaker Logan is. He can soak with the shield, but a bloodlusted Spider-Man will most likely be fast enough to by pass his defense, and one solid hit from a bloodlusted Pete will either leave Steve in critical condition or completely take him out of the fight for good. For the team to win, Wolverine has to lead the charge due to his insane soaking abilities and great damage output, with Steve hanging behind him and trying to use his knowledge of Spider-Man's fighting style to predict his movements and get in some good blows with his shield before he jumps back behind Wolverine for protection. In short, the team must absolutely try utilize their top tier fighting skill and teamwork if they want to win.

If the team works like this, I can see them pulling a 5/10 split or a slim 6/10 majority. If they go about this fight any other way like trying to do this separately in a physical fashion, Spider-Man will take the majority. This fight will not be a stomp either way by any means.

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RBT

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Spidey takes the majority. Since the bloodlust is on, Cap will be taken out pretty quickly. Leaves Spidey and Logan. Now I do think Logan has a shot at winning against morals on Spidey, he can't against bloodlusted.

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Fallschirmjager

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Pete can take a slight majority when bloodlusted

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Wolverine008

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Team could probably take a good majority if subbed out Captain America with a street leveler with great soaking ability like Black Panther on the team.

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ForeverEvil

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#11  Edited By ForeverEvil

@highku said:

@wolverine08: I like how all your arguments (see his/her other forum posts) are Peter won't use his webbing like you know him personally. I know him too, just cut turkey with him and he said he can and will. I get they're a cheap tactic that these two don't have the strength to break out of but hey, he has it so you gotta deal with that on your own.

This fight depends on what's considered a win. KO and spidey takes a majority. To the death the team eventually wins due to wolverine. I don't see how spidey can kill him when he's taken much worse punishment.

lmao "just cut turkey with him". i literally LOL'd

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jashro44

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@pooty I'm going to go ahead and take your response over to this thread because its more appropriate here.

Cap didn't want to hurt Spidey either. He knew Spidey was young and conflicted.

Any proof of this? After cap offered his hand he didn't say anything. That was basically it. They were just fighting and it seemed like Cap was focused on defeating spider-man.

Spidey obly got his shield because he threw it. Doubt he'll make that mistake again.

The whole point cap threw the shield was so Steve could hit a pressure point. He knew Peter would go for the shield which would allow him to get in close. Also lots of people have disarmed the shield so I don't see why spider-man can't when everyone else has.

It should also be noted that spider-mans spider-sense is connected to his emotional state and because of his mind set in this fight it is easier to distract spider-sense.

Yes Spidey stomps steve but with logan there running point Spidey can't be focused on Steve. Steve has proven he numb peter with a couple hits

Spider-man is actually really good at fighting multiple enemies. He's avoided teams before. Cap numbed Peter because he his a pressure point.

. Spidey can't defeat logan with one punch but logan can finish him with one attack. If it is possible for Spidey to solo I'd say it's highly improbable.

I don't think Peter can KO wolverine with physical punches at all. With that said he doesn't have to.

Actually let me edit that last post. You read spidey more then me. If Spidey fought the way I would he could solo. Cling to something and just web up the area. Does Spidey fight like that?

Its not usually his MO. With that said he does have other ways of easily dealing with cap. For example even if Cap decides not to throw the shield (which he will considering how often he tosses the thing), Peter could go in melee and use his sticky and hand powers, grab the shield and start swinging cap like thor does to hercules in the below scan:

No Caption Provided

Either Cap will have to let go or he will let go eventually. And before you ask what wolverine will be doing while Peter is swinging cap around I imagine Peter swinging Logan into Steve...

Or he can toss cars at them. He has been known to use the environment.

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GraniteSoldier

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This fight really revolves around Cap's and Wolverine's cohesion more than anything. Their styles, while effective, are too dissimilar to function cohesively in an extended period of time in my opinion. On the flip side, I think a morals off, non-bloodlusted Peter would stand a better chance than bloodlusted, because he is more likely to play his crafty combat game, which Peter can still do bloodlusted he isn't stupid but is just less likely to do. Without his hero worship, Peter can take Cap out rather quickly. Now being "bloodlusted" he is probably less likely (although it doesn't rule it out) to keep Wolverine busy with something as simple as a web shot to the eyes to temporarily disorient Logan, but they are in the heart of the city. This is really Spidey's environment, and it gives him a big edge. His mobility is far greater than the other two, so a full speed full power hit and run is entirely possible. Peter uses the environment a lot.

I think Cap goes down first, with giving Peter decent difficulty. Logan goes down through incapacitation, but it's a long fight. Having said that Peter doesn't take an overwhelming majority in my opinion. He's looking at roughly 6/10 due to superior stats, mobility, spider-sense, environment, and equipment (webs being key, although since he's bloodlusted they won't play as great a role). Also Cap's methodical approach vs Logan's direct approach is going to cause communication breakdowns between the team. If they function well and cohesively, then I think it'd be a different story.

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Wolverine008

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@granitesoldier: Great post on your part bro, but I just wanted to note one thing that you said that isn't correct.

Also Cap's methodical approach vs Logan's direct approach is going to cause communication breakdowns between the team.

Captain America is indeed a strategic person, but he is very direct himself when he wants too. Bucky even noted this when he said that Steve did charging into enemies better than he ever could.

No Caption Provided

Steve is quite the versatile solider, and I would bet that he could easily adapt to working with Wolverine.

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GraniteSoldier

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#15  Edited By GraniteSoldier

@wolverine08: Oh Cap can absolutely be direct when he wants to be, but direct against Bucky is going to yield VERY different results than direct against a no-games and no-holds-barred Spider-Man. Cap's more methodical, clever approach (such as in Civil War using his shield as a distraction) will serve him better here, and I imagine a soldier of Cap's tactical awareness would make that distinction.

Wolverine can afford to be direct, no punch of Peter's can really put him down.

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GraniteSoldier

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@wolverine08: I forgot to add this: I agree that Cap is versatile enough to work with anyone, which is why I think this is such a close fight. It's also why Cap is the undisputed greatest leader of the Avengers.

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Wolverine008

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@granitesoldier: Indeed. He is an incredible leader. You can put him with anyone from a street leveler to a demi god, and he can get a cohesive working relationship up. It's why he is the best at what he does.

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GraniteSoldier

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@wolverine08: I see what you did there! I agree, Peter's hero worship of Cap is definitely warranted.

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Yokergeist

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Isn't Wolverine practically invincible? I'm going with him and Cap.

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Wolverine008

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@granitesoldier: Well, Steve is indeed the best there is when it comes to inspiring and field tactics, but when it comes to being the all round best there is at everything, we all know Wolverine reigns supreme :D

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Wyldsong

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#22  Edited By Wyldsong

Well, I'll toss a line since I got called out, but I will keep it short. I think a lot of the key points have already been thrown out there by others. I'll side with Pete for the very slight majority on this one, though do agree that a morals off Pete would probably fare better than a bloodlusted one, though a bloodlusted Spidey is absolutely a very scary thing to behold, and damn near impossible to hit (couple that with a fighting style that was shown to be instinctive and integrated with his spider-sense when last we saw Pete).

Definitely not a stomp by any means, and a pretty tough fight.

I am assuming the OP is not meaning to use the most current Wolverine...isn't he without a healing factor? If so, then Spidey for a heavy majority=P

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patrat18

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@wyldsong said:

Well, I'll toss a line since I got called out, but I will keep it short. I think a lot of the key points have already been thrown out there by others. I'll side with Pete for the very slight majority on this one, though do agree that a morals off Pete would probably fare better than a bloodlusted one, though a bloodlusted Spidey is absolutely a very scary thing to behold, and damn near impossible to hit (couple that with a fighting style that was shown to be instinctive and integrated with his spider-sense when last we saw Pete).

Definitely not a stomp by any means, and a pretty tough fight.

I am assuming the OP is not meaning to use the most current Wolverine...isn't he without a healing factor? If so, then Spidey for a heavy majority=P

Well put. This is Peter Parker before Doc Oct.

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Wyldsong

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@patrat18: Well, people tend to compare Pete's battles with various others prior to his WOTS training, which is a bit disingenuous to how the character would perform, since he did receive an upgrade prior to the whole SpOck debacle, and was shown to be exceedingly proficient with it (and again, the style was shown to be instinctive and in tune with spider-sense at the end of Spider Island). It is something that is often overlooked or forgotten.

Regardless, I do think good points have been made all around in this thread=)

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GraniteSoldier

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@wyldsong said:

@patrat18: Well, people tend to compare Pete's battles with various others prior to his WOTS training, which is a bit disingenuous to how the character would perform, since he did receive an upgrade prior to the whole SpOck debacle, and was shown to be exceedingly proficient with it (and again, the style was shown to be instinctive and in tune with spider-sense at the end of Spider Island). It is something that is often overlooked or forgotten.

Regardless, I do think good points have been made all around in this thread=)

This is a good point, and I agree it's overlooked. Every time peter has met Cap or Wolverine in a "fight" it was before he received his training, and I agree it's often not even brought up that he's far more combat-savvy and would approach them much differently than he has previously.

I applaud your insight.

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Wyldsong

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@wyldsong said:

@patrat18: Well, people tend to compare Pete's battles with various others prior to his WOTS training, which is a bit disingenuous to how the character would perform, since he did receive an upgrade prior to the whole SpOck debacle, and was shown to be exceedingly proficient with it (and again, the style was shown to be instinctive and in tune with spider-sense at the end of Spider Island). It is something that is often overlooked or forgotten.

Regardless, I do think good points have been made all around in this thread=)

This is a good point, and I agree it's overlooked. Every time peter has met Cap or Wolverine in a "fight" it was before he received his training, and I agree it's often not even brought up that he's far more combat-savvy and would approach them much differently than he has previously.

I applaud your insight.

I have my moments, though they may be few and far between=)

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GraniteSoldier

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#27  Edited By GraniteSoldier

@wyldsong said:

@granitesoldier said:

@wyldsong said:

@patrat18: Well, people tend to compare Pete's battles with various others prior to his WOTS training, which is a bit disingenuous to how the character would perform, since he did receive an upgrade prior to the whole SpOck debacle, and was shown to be exceedingly proficient with it (and again, the style was shown to be instinctive and in tune with spider-sense at the end of Spider Island). It is something that is often overlooked or forgotten.

Regardless, I do think good points have been made all around in this thread=)

This is a good point, and I agree it's overlooked. Every time peter has met Cap or Wolverine in a "fight" it was before he received his training, and I agree it's often not even brought up that he's far more combat-savvy and would approach them much differently than he has previously.

I applaud your insight.

I have my moments, though they may be few and far between=)

Flashes of brilliance are better than complete lack thereof!

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Wyldsong

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@wyldsong said:

@granitesoldier said:

@wyldsong said:

@patrat18: Well, people tend to compare Pete's battles with various others prior to his WOTS training, which is a bit disingenuous to how the character would perform, since he did receive an upgrade prior to the whole SpOck debacle, and was shown to be exceedingly proficient with it (and again, the style was shown to be instinctive and in tune with spider-sense at the end of Spider Island). It is something that is often overlooked or forgotten.

Regardless, I do think good points have been made all around in this thread=)

This is a good point, and I agree it's overlooked. Every time peter has met Cap or Wolverine in a "fight" it was before he received his training, and I agree it's often not even brought up that he's far more combat-savvy and would approach them much differently than he has previously.

I applaud your insight.

I have my moments, though they may be few and far between=)

Flashes of brilliance are better than complete lack thereof!

Lol, well thank you my friend=)

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Wolverine008

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@wyldsong said:

@patrat18: Well, people tend to compare Pete's battles with various others prior to his WOTS training, which is a bit disingenuous to how the character would perform, since he did receive an upgrade prior to the whole SpOck debacle, and was shown to be exceedingly proficient with it (and again, the style was shown to be instinctive and in tune with spider-sense at the end of Spider Island). It is something that is often overlooked or forgotten.

Regardless, I do think good points have been made all around in this thread=)

This is a good point, and I agree it's overlooked. Every time peter has met Cap or Wolverine in a "fight" it was before he received his training, and I agree it's often not even brought up that he's far more combat-savvy and would approach them much differently than he has previously.

I applaud your insight.

I do agree that the WOTS training would indeed make a difference in Peter's battle prowess, but we do still have to remember that Parker is still quite lopsidedly outclassed in this area by both Captain America and Wolverine. Quantitatively speaking, Steve and Logan are both still packing about of 150+ years if training under various martial artist masters and military. There training really has brought them to the point where there battle prowess/savvy outclasses most in the world and Parker.

Peter's training and the effect it has had on him is indeed underrated though.

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GraniteSoldier

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@granitesoldier said:

@wyldsong said:

@patrat18: Well, people tend to compare Pete's battles with various others prior to his WOTS training, which is a bit disingenuous to how the character would perform, since he did receive an upgrade prior to the whole SpOck debacle, and was shown to be exceedingly proficient with it (and again, the style was shown to be instinctive and in tune with spider-sense at the end of Spider Island). It is something that is often overlooked or forgotten.

Regardless, I do think good points have been made all around in this thread=)

This is a good point, and I agree it's overlooked. Every time peter has met Cap or Wolverine in a "fight" it was before he received his training, and I agree it's often not even brought up that he's far more combat-savvy and would approach them much differently than he has previously.

I applaud your insight.

I do agree that the WOTS training would indeed make a difference in Peter's battle prowess, but we do still have to remember that Parker is still quite lopsidedly outclassed in this area by both Captain America and Wolverine. Quantitatively speaking, Steve and Logan are both still packing about of 150+ years if training under various martial artist masters and military. There training really has brought them to the point where there battle prowess/savvy outclasses most in the world and Parker.

Peter's training and the effect it has had on him is indeed underrated though.

I don't think the point was that Peter would be better than them in hand to hand. I don't think that was what Wyldsong was claiming, and I know for damn sure I wouldn't consider Peter on their tier. But what it has taught him is how to better approach combat, and the mindset is going to make a difference here. Not to mention how his training seemingly "enhanced" his feelings from the spider-sense by working in tandem with it.

Despite being a seeming natural, though, a few months of training do NOT in any way put Peter's skills on par with either Cap's or Wolverine's. Training is good when combined with experience, and Cap and Logan have that in spades.

Wyld's comment, and my agreement of it, was that Peter would recognize they're better fighters and since he actually has training now (which he didn't before) his approach to them will be different than previous.

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ForeverEvil

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#31  Edited By ForeverEvil

Im glad we're all agreeing that Spider-man wins.

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patrat18

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Im glad we're all agreeing that Spider-man wins.

lol.

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Wyldsong

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#33  Edited By Wyldsong

@wolverine08 said:

I do agree that the WOTS training would indeed make a difference in Peter's battle prowess, but we do still have to remember that Parker is still quite lopsidedly outclassed in this area by both Captain America and Wolverine. Quantitatively speaking, Steve and Logan are both still packing about of 150+ years if training under various martial artist masters and military. There training really has brought them to the point where there battle prowess/savvy outclasses most in the world and Parker.

Peter's training and the effect it has had on him is indeed underrated though.

I definitely agree, their training outclasses his by a huge margin, and not many can match their battle savvy/prowess.

Regardless, since I am thinking about it, I am going to further illustrate this point and some of what I am wanting to get out there. So, this is not a debate with anyone, but some thoughts running through my skull. With his power set, a lot of training isn't necessarily needed to give him a power boost. Now, we can point out the usual that he has blitzed spider powered foes without his spider sense (and shown pressure point proficiency while doing so) and kept up with a full blown precog with spider powers without his spider-sense due to his training (and the stated warriors instinct he gained which is what allowed him to do so), but it doesn't get to my main point.

Something Spidey has shown in the past is that his spider-sense has let him predict the moves of foes to help tag them, it just isn't something that is often played upon or pointed out that often. Now, a more recent story has spelled it out a bit:

No Caption Provided

It's a fairly good illustration of why Spidey has kept up with some of the foes he has, as it is more than just about dodging. So now, couple that with WOTS training, and you can see why I bring the point up:

No Caption Provided

Anyhow, just some food for thought. Cap and Logan still far outclass him skill wise, but with WOTS training and spider-sense, it is definitely something to consider against far more skilled foes.

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Wyldsong

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@wolverine08 said:

@granitesoldier said:

@wyldsong said:

@patrat18: Well, people tend to compare Pete's battles with various others prior to his WOTS training, which is a bit disingenuous to how the character would perform, since he did receive an upgrade prior to the whole SpOck debacle, and was shown to be exceedingly proficient with it (and again, the style was shown to be instinctive and in tune with spider-sense at the end of Spider Island). It is something that is often overlooked or forgotten.

Regardless, I do think good points have been made all around in this thread=)

This is a good point, and I agree it's overlooked. Every time peter has met Cap or Wolverine in a "fight" it was before he received his training, and I agree it's often not even brought up that he's far more combat-savvy and would approach them much differently than he has previously.

I applaud your insight.

I do agree that the WOTS training would indeed make a difference in Peter's battle prowess, but we do still have to remember that Parker is still quite lopsidedly outclassed in this area by both Captain America and Wolverine. Quantitatively speaking, Steve and Logan are both still packing about of 150+ years if training under various martial artist masters and military. There training really has brought them to the point where there battle prowess/savvy outclasses most in the world and Parker.

Peter's training and the effect it has had on him is indeed underrated though.

I don't think the point was that Peter would be better than them in hand to hand. I don't think that was what Wyldsong was claiming, and I know for damn sure I wouldn't consider Peter on their tier. But what it has taught him is how to better approach combat, and the mindset is going to make a difference here. Not to mention how his training seemingly "enhanced" his feelings from the spider-sense by working in tandem with it.

Despite being a seeming natural, though, a few months of training do NOT in any way put Peter's skills on par with either Cap's or Wolverine's. Training is good when combined with experience, and Cap and Logan have that in spades.

Wyld's comment, and my agreement of it, was that Peter would recognize they're better fighters and since he actually has training now (which he didn't before) his approach to them will be different than previous.

I think I hopefully clarified the point a bit more in the above post. Skill wise, Cap and Logan outclass him by a large margin.

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Wolverine008

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#35  Edited By Wolverine008

@wyldsong: Great post bro. You're clarified your thoughts really well if I say so myself.

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@wyldsong: I'd say you did. I'm really enjoying Spidey's Marvel Knights mini, the spider-sense explanation/expansion was pretty awesome. Artwork is trippy as hell too.

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#37  Edited By Wyldsong

@wolverine08:Well thank you sir. Honestly, I have been pondering putting together a guide to spider-sense, but as my time is short as of late, I haven't done it. The above will be one of the big things to bring up if I get around to doing it....

@granitesoldier: And thanks to you as well my friend. The artwork and style of the series are trippy as hell. I still enjoy it though=)

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patrat18

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bump

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#41  Edited By JeanRalphio

Im glad we're all agreeing that Spider-man wins.

Even though that's a fallacy.

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Bloodlusted spidey should take cap down relatively easily, then proceed to smack Logan around until he can incap him with webs or something.

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patrat18

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Bloodlusted spidey should take cap down relatively easily, then proceed to smack Logan around until he can incap him with webs or something.

lol

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#45  Edited By ForeverEvil

@foreverevil said:

Im glad we're all agreeing that Spider-man wins.

Even though that's a fallacy.

youre right. I should have said "I'm glad almost all of us agree that Spider-man wins."

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Wow. I was expecting some stronger arguments for Logan's damage soak and healing factor. Good arguments for Spidey taking a majority though.