@sheenlantern: Cass is faster than daredevil though.
Why, cause she can dodge bullets? Funny.
Spidey sense warns him of danger, since when does it tell him when someone's going to counter?
That's a good point actually. A punch from Batgirl is not dangerous to Spidey at all.
Don't see why you're dissing his shield...
Because Pete is gonna snatch it off him in half a second then crush his skull like a soda can.
But instead of a truck, he is swinging at metahumans with precog.
>Metahumans
>Precog
Lol.
Okay, let's do this.
Strength
Spider-Man lands a freaking plane on himself, he does the math in his head and works out he's lifting around 50 tons, not including the thrust.
Lifts a train car clean over his head, seemingly with ease. They typically weight around 40 tons.
Rips the near-indestructible Carbonadium.
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Reduces an entire building to rubble with his bare hands.
Almost turns the Iron Man armour to scrap metal.
Speed:
The Collector, who has outsped the fastest beings from many worlds has never seen anything like Spider-Man's speed and agility.
He punches with the speed of machine-gun fire.
His reflexes are 40 times faster than a human's.
Durability:
Punching Spider-Man is like bunching a bulldozer. This is coming from someone even stronger than he is.
He rolls with a (superhuman) spider-clone's punch to avoid breaking it's wrist (He won't do the same here).
Heavyweight boxer shatters his wrists by punching Spidey.
So there you have it. Pitting a bloodlusted Spidey against 3 peak-humans is like expecting 3 chihuahuas to fight off a T-Rex. Any physical confrontation with Spider-Man from the team will 100% mean instant death.
@sheenlantern: No not for dodgint bullets. every street leveler does that. She has meta human speed and has taken out a guy who shot at her before the bullet reached where she was standing.
She can use pressure points, and she kicked through quartz before.
Batman is peak human. Cassandra has meta speed and striking power. Cap is enhanced. They aren't getting one shotted.
@sheenlantern: to my knowledge a train car weighs around 40 tons, and it looks like there is two in the scan, so you can even say he's lifted more than 40 tons. Also don't forget him lifting the bugle for a few moments. That's around a 100 ton scan.
@jayc1324: hey I didn't write the comic lol. He lifted the daily bugle when it was falling. Granted it was for mere moments, but a building that side weighs at least 100 tons. Now back to the situation, they dodge machine gun fire correct. But the machine gun bullets 1. Aren't bending and moving like spideys arms. 2. Aren't point blank.
Plus web incap ends this all very quickly. They have no counter for that.
@sheenlantern: Peak humans dodge bullets. They don't knock out the person who shot at them before the bullet even get to where they were original standing. Unless you have an example of one doing that?
Is spiderman resistant to pressure points? Not that I know of.
Kicking through quartz is above peak human.
Cap is enhanced. That's what the SSS did. Enhanced his physicals. They aren't getting one shotted. Cass can body read.
Peak humans dodge bullets. They don't knock out the person who shot at them before the bullet even get to where they were original standing.
What is the difference between dodging, catching or deflecting bullets all after they are fired and dodging a bullet while lunging forward fist first?
Is spiderman resistant to pressure points?
I just showed you a scan of Spider-Man having to roll with a punch from a clone of his to avoid breaking his hand. If Batgirl tries to strike a nerve cluster or whatever she'll end up snapping her fingers.....Not that' she'll land a hit on him at all, of course.
Regardless, I was laughing at you trying to make Batgirl sound really impressive when really every half-competent martial artist in comics knows pressure points....Including Spider-Man.
Kicking through quartz is above peak human.
LMFAO
Do you even know what quartz is? It's what they make kitchen countertops out of. This Batgirl wanking is getting out of hand.
Cap is enhanced. That's what the SSS did. Enhanced his physicals.
Enhanced to peak human levels.
They aren't getting one shotted.
Still haven't heard any reasoning for why they could survive a single hit.
Cass can body read.
And? I've already shown you a scan of a peak human bullet timer who knew exactly what Spider-Man was going to do fail to react to him. Spider-Sense counters the body reading anyway.
@sheenlantern: the difference is getting all the way to the attacker before the bullet has barely moved.
Do you know how hard pure quartz is? Not kitchen counter tops...
Cass is twice the MA spiderman is. And OK so yes they work on him. Also since when is Spiderman's skin hard like Superman's? She isn't breaking her fingers on his skin. She has broken through stone with her fingers...
Cass has meta speed feats and striking power. Even better than batmans. And he is peak human. Cap also has better feats than batman and he is peak human.
@sheenlantern: the difference is getting all the way to the attacker before the bullet has barely moved.
I still don't see why this is so much more impressive than stuff like this...
It certainly doesn't compare to stuff like this.
Do you know how hard pure quartz is? Not kitchen counter tops...
I don't remember the purity of the quartz being mentioned in the comic, but by all means, enlighten me.
Cass is twice the MA spiderman is.
Yet oddly enough I'd rather have Spider-Man's vast superhuman power than Batgirl's skill at hitting things.
She isn't breaking her fingers on his skin. She has broken through stone with her fingers...
Spider-Man can reduce a building to rubble with his bare hands and shatter the Iron Man armour into pieces. Yet his own clone was going to break his wrist by punching him if he didn't roll with it.
Cass has meta speed feats and striking power. Even better than batmans.
This should be a good matchup. With no prep and morals off I give it to Spiderman though. Batman MAY have some kind of acid or something to dissolve the webbing, but it will slow him down enough that Spiderman can take care of him easily. Not very knowledgeable on this Batgirl, but Peter should be able to take Cap especially with morals off.
@monsterstomp: Don't matter. She's meta-human. Spider-Man is 100% superhuman. Spider-Man could just beat her down with a truck. She's dead any way you look at it.
*eye twitches* She's actually peak human. And I never really cared for those comparisons. Current Deathstroke is meta-human but I don't see half the feats of him doing what Cassie was doing.
Wasn't she stated on panel to be a meta?
Late response but she was quoted as being an "aggregated meta". All of her individual feats where described as achievable by humans, but they concluded no human could show the capabilities she did in marksmanship, skill, speed, strength. Honestly, once its broken down it doesn't sound so impressive, seeing as they where using analogues of top tier sportsmen being able to match her in individual aspects of her physicality. Cassie is a meta by feats- even if we compare her to guys like Bruce IMO, but those guys would have said the same thing about any other top tier "peak human" street leveler if they saw them in action.
@proto3296: ... So Steve and Bruce do not come with their own impressive feats? Cap has slapped around Thor, an asgardian god that has battle experience spanning thousands of years. An evil/morals off Bruce almost conquered the entire DC multiverse. This scan shows just one member of the team tagging Peter hard, it's unfathomable that the team would not stop him. And please, the utility belt is the most legendary plot device in comic existence. Every team member has off the chart better martial art abilities than Peter and he will be tagged eventually, and hard, as shown by the scan, but with two more opponents more skilled than himself.
@namor_curry: captain America has never slapped around thor. Unless you have scans to prove it, you just look foolish. Batman has also never almost conquered the multiverse. Ever. And again unless you have scans, you just look idiotic. Batmans utitility belt, doesn't work on it's own. He needs to use it. By the time he reaches in it to grab (nothing in it would even be useful in this situation so) idek smoke pellets he'd be dead. Stop making foolish claims.
1) Actually, Cassie is not peak-human...she should be, and there was never a good explanation of why she should be considered as meta...but as we know, feats > statements...and Cassie has both!...she has performed meta-human feats many times...(i got lot's of scans, and i can post them, if you want/need, proof...or, if you just want to see them)...and she has also been rated as meta-human on panel:
2) I noticed that you and @jayc1324 were debating one of Cassie's meta-human feats.
Is this instance, the one that you were debating?:
In the scans above, Cassie broke through bullet proof glass made of 3-inch-quartz...i'm pretty sure, that was a meta-human feat.
You don't know much about quartz, do you?...check this:
In that site, you can see that quartz is very durable, and it's used alot in the glass industry, also to help making bullet proof glass.
3) Yes, Spider-Man probably wins, and no, it's not a stomp.
What makes you say that Pete would one-shot all of them?...both Batman and Cassie have dodged bullets at point blank...actually Cassie has literally out-paced a bullet on panel:
Even bullets from regular hand-guns travel at speeds of at least, 650 hpm...this is just to give you an idea of how fast, Cassie really is.
And Cap has enhanced speed...Besides, Spider-Man is not super-human, like Superman or Wonder-Woman...his stats are "just" meta-human...he doesn't have super-speed, "just" meta-human speed...he is stronger, faster, and more durable than most metas, yes, but he's still only meta.
Actually, i only think Spider-Man would probably win here, because of 2 reasons:
1) i think his speed advantage would allow him to counter Cassie's Body Reading;
2) Spidy has no morals here, meaning that he would go all out.
But this isn't a stomp, to me, Spider-Man would take out one after another, due to being faster, more durable, and hitting harder than his opponents...but he isn't stomping here, 1) he is going to miss some shots...2) he isn't going to be able to dodge all of the attacks, and you can be sure, that if Spidy gets hit by either Batman or Cassie at full force, he would feel alot of pain...i already posted a scan with Cap hitting Spidy, and Spidy looking like he got sick, lol...and 3) it's 3-on-1...and those 3 are Batman, Cap, and Cassie.
@namor_curry: How is that smacking him around? He used his thors moment hims to push him down, and then he hit thor with his shield and thor tanked it. I'm not salty, It's just the fact that you're comparing street levelers who dont belong in the same class as spiderman. With out prep this is a wash.
@sheenlantern: the difference is getting all the way to the attacker before the bullet has barely moved.
I still don't see why this is so much more impressive than stuff like this...
It certainly doesn't compare to stuff like this.
Do you know how hard pure quartz is? Not kitchen counter tops...
I don't remember the purity of the quartz being mentioned in the comic, but by all means, enlighten me.
Cass is twice the MA spiderman is.
Yet oddly enough I'd rather have Spider-Man's vast superhuman power than Batgirl's skill at hitting things.
She isn't breaking her fingers on his skin. She has broken through stone with her fingers...
Spider-Man can reduce a building to rubble with his bare hands and shatter the Iron Man armour into pieces. Yet his own clone was going to break his wrist by punching him if he didn't roll with it.
Cass has meta speed feats and striking power. Even better than batmans.
Uh-huh.
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??...Cassie out-paced a bullet on panel...it was a speed feat...and a very good one.
Daredevil deflected that bullet due to skill
Iron Fist catched that bullet due to skill + his chi-amps
In those scans, Spider-Man is DODGING!...Cassie has dodged bullets like a million times...she also dodged Supergirl's eye beams...many street-levelers have dodged really fast objects, due to skill only...i mean sure, you have to be very fast + very agile + have very good reaction time + very good reflexes, etc.
But if you are only measuring speed, then, out-pacing > dodging, because, you don't have to be faster than a bullet, do dodge one...but in order to out-pace one, you do.
@sheenlantern: Dude, what is better: Blocking a bullet with your hand or moving your entire body all the way over to the person who shot you, doing martial arts to take him out, before the bullet even got to where you standing at first? That takes way more speed. Think about it like hitting a baseball with a bat compared to running over to the pitching pound after the call was thrown and knocking out the pitcher with the bat before the ball even reaches home plate.
Lowballing the quartz feat. I could just say that we have no idea how much that truck weighed. Or if it was even a real truck. But that would be stupid of me. It wasn't a kitchen counter.
You don't think I have those batman feats? Caps are consistently just a touch better.
@proto3296: First of all, if you don't understand that using momentum to your advantage is a basic pillar of martial arts, then why are you even debating this? Secondly, you missed the second scan I posted in there where Cap literally brawls Thor down. The only scans of cap vs spidey in this thread show Steve winning, and with the other two extremely impressive teammates this is a team victory. Avoidance only goes a certain distance before finesse conquers. These three characters completely outclass Peter in martial ability and have used it to take out stronger opponents in countless examples, even stronger than Spider-Man, as I have just posted. There is just no conceivable way Peter wins this.
@bat_girl_cc: your scan just showed that Steve can win. Spidey had tried to study Cap's fighting style and realized he cannot counter it. In plan B he takes defensive action to remove Roger's Shield, which only resulted in a severe gut-punch. Peter's Spider Senses are amazingly powerful, but between Cap's incredible durability, peak stats, and his flat out refusal to quit I see him winning this alone. Not to mention he has one of the greatest martial techniques MU has to offer, alongside Danny and T'Challa.
If Spider-Man's morals were "on" Cap would probably solo
With Spidy also morals off, no, he can't...actually, i think he would beat the 3 members of the team, combined...but it could really go either way, it's 3 against 1 after all...
@namor_curry: these webs have held classic hulk for a period of time. They've held wolverine before with ease. Morals off spiderman would be punching batman with 40 tons of force. He can also suffocate them by shooting webbing down their throat. Captain America is around 1-4 tons. Batman is 1,000 lbs and Barbra is below batman. The strength is not debatable. Can you just tell me if you're joking?
Barbara is not just below Batman...she is WELL BELOW Batman...most of the Robin's are above her...and they are all below Batman...but the Batgirl being used here is Cassandra Cain...actually, this is the O.P's creator fault, because he should've put "Batgirl (Cassandra Cain)"...this way, by the rules, we are supposed to assume that it's the current character...and the current Batgirl, it's Barbara Gordon.
@namor_curry: The team has absolutely no chance of beating spiderman. He is the fastest, most agile, and strongest out of everybody. He also has his spider sense, so he wont be getting hit. Even if they do hit him all they are going to do is break their wrist.
@bat_girl_cc: both Cap and Bats have beaten stronger, faster, and more durable opponents than Spider-Man, as shown earlier in my replies to the other guy. And I really hate when people say the character was holding back. Unless it is explicitly stated that the character is holding back, no one ever is going to purposely get beat up for no reason in particular.
Everyone on the team stands somewhere in this fight:
Cassandra is the best fighter
Batman has the tactics and gadgets
Cap has the best physical abilities
I'm sure that they could deal with Spiderman with maybe 30 min. to an hour prep so they could figure out how to deal with Spidey before it goes to a fist fight , but if it comes down to a fist fight Spidey wins. People seem to be forgetting that there are no morals for Batman and team, so Batman drops a nuke.
@bat_girl_cc: both Cap and Bats have beaten stronger, faster, and more durable opponents than Spider-Man, as shown earlier in my replies to the other guy. And I really hate when people say the character was holding back. Unless it is explicitly stated that the character is holding back, no one ever is going to purposely get beat up for no reason in particular.
" both Cap and Bats have beaten stronger, faster, and more durable opponents than Spider-Man "
Without gadgets and/or prep?...that sounds like PIS...besides a morals off spider-man would a freakin beast...but nothing that a little "high-end-Cassie" couldn't take care of :P
If people keep saying that spider-man stomps here, i'll start posting scans of Cassie beating up Bizarro-Super-girl H2H only xD
" And I really hate when people say the character was holding back. Unless it is explicitly stated that the character is holding back, no one ever is going to purposely get beat up for no reason in particular. "
Makes sense...but if it has been stated many times that Spider-Man has a personal admiration for Cap...and that he would never want to hurt him...
Edyes they have but Spiderman has beaten even more impressive opponents
Lets compare
Strength:
the Bats have maybe 1 Ton strength and thats being generous Cap is maybe a 5 toner
Spider man fluctuates betwine 10-15 tons ( morals on) to 40 tons and up morals off
Edge spiderman is in a diferant weight class
Speed-reactions:
All of the team are bullet timers and cass has move reading
Spiderma has been known to move at speeds in excess of 200 MPH and in pure reactions has doged sniper bullets after they have been fired ( no spidersense)
adding in spider sense which have been improved by the Way of the spider to become fullblown combat clairvoyance telling him the beest possible way to win a fight without takeing a hit
Edge Spiderman in a land slide
Gear:
most of the Bats gadgets are useless here cap's sheild might let him last against spiderman untill he trows it
Spiderman's web shooters can incapatate everyone here quite easily
The only advantage the team has is skills but theya re not enough to counter spidermans overwelming advantage
@bat_girl_cc: No I completely agree and understand it's been stated before that Peter respects Steve a great deal, but unless it's stated in that exact fight I just see that as a poor excuse for Peter when he gets tossed by Cap. And if you go back though my replies, I posted links to scans of Cap giving Thor, a character way out of Spider-mans league, a beatdown. It's just the fact that these characters have too much martial skill for Peter to know how to correctly counter, even with his enhanced spider senses. Hell, he even admits he can't counter cap alone.
@cjdavis103: the scans show otherwise. Yes Peter is faster and stronger but none of that makes up for his inability to know how to correctly react to what is being thrown at him without it ending in him getting tagged. The team's finesse is too much, especially combined.
yeah the only one here with the durability and healing factor able to have a chance at keeping up with Pete is Cap and he cant do it by himself... Spidey wins
@bat_girl_cc: No I completely agree and understand it's been stated before that Peter respects Steve a great deal, but unless it's stated in that exact fight I just see that as a poor excuse for Peter when he gets tossed by Cap. And if you go back though my replies, I posted links to scans of Cap giving Thor, a character way out of Spider-mans league, a beatdown. It's just the fact that these characters have too much martial skill for Peter to know how to correctly counter, even with his enhanced spider senses. Hell, he even admits he can't counter cap alone.
Yeah, the team would win some, not sure about the majority, tho.
@namor_curry: Even if cap did break Spider-mans ribs he couldn't do that in a fight with a morals off spiderman who can literally punch captain Americas head off. I don't see batman as a factor in this fight and i don't think Cassie can hit spiderman with his spider sense so i don't see the team winning
@namor_curry: you said he smacks him down. I never said that cap isn't an excellent martial artist. You're making up your own argument. All I said was that cap can't smack thor around, and he didn't. And we both know if thor wanted he could obliterate cap with mystical lightning. He's clearly holding back. And spidey is caps biggest fan, he's too much of a fan to take him down. The only time spidey ever hit with serious force was when he found out the flash was venom and cap never told him, and cap couldn't react quick enough, and he was sent flying. Batman batgirl and cap have foughten and beaten people stronger than spidey. But spidey has also beaten people much stronger than him. Rhino is a class 80-100 tonner and spidey has wiped the floor with him. When has the bats or cap taken down a 100 tonner on a daily basis.
@namor_curry: so you're trying to tell me if you got into a fight with your bestfriend you wouldn't hold back at all? You would kill him? No. People will take a beating because they love and respect their combatant.
he has Spidersense that alone puts him above the team
and this is not includeing the fact that spiderman can web swing circles around them he can pick off and crush them individuality
Well, actually, the spider-sense is very similar to Daredevil's Radar-Sense...it's a cool abillity, and it's very effective, but Cassie's Body Reading is better.
They are 3 and spiderman is just one...he can't webb them all at the same time...and if he tries to webb one of them, that would open a window for the others to attack him.
A morals off spider-man should win, but it would be by taking them out by the old fashion way...to me, he would have a much better chance to beat them, by punching and kicking them out...he is stronger, faster, and more durable, it should be just a matter of time...not a stomp tho.
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