Spider-Man runs the Movie and T.V Gauntlet.

Stops at Tier 3, Clears Tier 1 and 2 with little difficulty.

stops at tier 3 at number 3

@Deranged Midget said:

Quite honestly, I can see him having a decent amount of trouble at the 2nd tier with Blade's team, even with morals off. We didn't even see the outer limits of Drake's potential as he was taken out quickly but he was obviously outmatched by Blade in his human form. But the instant he transformed, he made him look like a toy. Not sure what his healing capabilities are either. But let's say he does make it past that round. I honestly don't see what Peter can do the Gamma irradiated dogs. They gave Hulk a brutal fight and he barely beat them.

Peter stops at the third tier, second round.

Its been a while since Ive seen 2003's Hulk...but i honestly don't remember them performing any real spectacular feats. Sure, they gave Movie Hulk some difficulties...but he's not even close to his comic book levels of Strength, durability, and healing.

@Deranged Midget said:

@Shawnbaby: He might not be equal to his comic counterpart but he still exceeds Peter by a large margin.

True..I just don't see those Dogs being able to tag Pete and while Pete's ppunches won't have as big of an impact...he can land more of them and I think he could potentially wear them down...especially with morals off.

@Deranged Midget: I dunno if Peter can do this to tanks:

I see him being able to hurt those dogs.

@Deranged Midget said:

@Shawnbaby: Good scan, but tanks are hardly very mobile and thus made them an easy target for Peter. Such is not the case with the dogs who had no problem chasing after Hulk in those massive Redwood's.

I'm not saying it would be easy...I'm just saying I can see how Peter could beat them.

@Deranged Midget said:

@Shawnbaby: He possibly could defeat them yes, but those scans do cause me to question some things. In recent years, I don't recall him ever replicating a feat of that magnitude. What comes closest I'd say would be Peter compensating for the weight of the plane and the velocity it was traveling at to safely put in on the ground in one of the latest issues of ASM. (Believe it was 694).

Well...He's also got that feat of supporting the Daily Bugle.

@Deranged Midget said:

@Shawnbaby: But was that not around the same era as when those scans from McFarlane were taken from?

It was about 10 years between those 2 events. The Mcfarlane scan is from 1989...the JRJR scan is 1998

@Deranged Midget said:

@Shawnbaby: Thank you for clarifying that. But regarding the Daily Bugle feat, assuming it weighs roughly 40 tons, he basically supported the building. With ASM 694, Peter acts as the landing gear for Aunt May's plane and compensates the weight which he equates to being over seventy-five thousand pounds alone on the plane and then another thirty to forty thousand for the fuel and manages to save Jonah Sr. and Aunt May. I can't upload the scan for some darn reason but my point is while Peter does have those moments, they are far and few and quite inconsistant.

Well..I've got other scans too. As for the rarity...well, how often has he been in a situation where he's needed to lift 40-50 tons like that? I would say the fact that's he's shown to be capable of doing it several times over the years, with different creative teams shows enough consistency for it to count. I've certainly seen more examples of Spider-Man lifting 40+ tons than I have of Batman Lifting 1000 pounds...but its never in question that Batman can lift 1000 pounds

@Deranged Midget said:

@Shawnbaby: You misunderstand me. I know that he's been somewhat consistant in lifting feats, but I'm referring to such feats being utilized in combat. After all, he's not going to be supporting the weight of the dogs.

Well...in combat...he doesn't use his strength like that because he'd kill people...but morals are off here...so there's no reason he'd have to hold back

@Deranged Midget said:

@Shawnbaby: In regards to situations where he's actually had morals off, he's never demonstrated such feats of strength. In both Grim Hunt and Back in Black, too of the most popular occasions where he let loose, he merely devastated his opponents with his superior physicality but never an overabundance of strength.

I wouldn't conisider either of those events to be full morals off. True, he went a little darker then he normally would...but at no point did he really cut loose on anyone. He stopped short of Beating anyone to death even though he clearly could have.

Anyway my point is not that he could easily beat those dogs...merely that he does possess the physical strength to do so eventually and has the speed to keep them from tagging him while he does so.

@Deranged Midget said:

@Shawnbaby: I think you might be confusing morals off with bloodlusted. Peter without a doubt had little-to-no morals in Back in Black and Grim Hunt. He pulled no punches on the men who were involved on the shooting of Aunt May and attacked without throwing and quips. In Grim Hunt, he was getting absolutely stomped by the Kravinoff's, but once he stripped himself of morals, they stood absolutely no chance against him.

I Think of no morals as being someone who kills without questioning...guys like Wolverine and Punisher. In Back and Black Spidey was certainly in a mood to Hurt people, even badly,...but he still wasn't killing...not even Kingpin. In Grim Hunt Spidey came as close as he ever has to killing...and he showed brutality beyond anything we'd ever seen before...but he still wasn't killing...even though he clearly could easily have done so. And before yeah, they were stomping him...but that I believe was more due to plot device than anything else. Considering how easily they took down Kaine...who is as close to a morals off spider-man as anyone we've ever seen...if all it takes is for Spidey to go Morals off to beat them so easily...Kaine should have faired much better.

I'm not familiar with some of these characters but I think he stops at Tier 3, fight 3. There is really nothing he can do to Colossus.

@Deranged Midget said:

@Shawnbaby: It was Peter's story so it makes sense sense for him to shine. But in regards to morality. Peter was fully willing to kill both Fisk and Kraven, but he was otherwise convinced not to. In Grim Hunt, it was because he would completely ruin his life and in turn, destroy the Web of Life. In BiB, he could've have and had the intention of killing Fisk but instead chose to spare him in order to embarrass him.

With Kraven...He as definitely willing to kill him...but he didn't...the fact that he was talked out of it showed he still had a little something left. With Kingpin...His intention was always just to humiliate him and to send a message to everyone else..."You come after my family and I will hurt you in ways you've never imagined". He does say that if May were to die...he'd come back and finish the job on Fisk...but we'll never know if he ever really would have. In both those situations...his moral standards do drop a whole lot...but they aren't totally gone. In all honesty, In Grim Hunt I would say he was kind of Bloodlusted...he wasn't really thinking about any moral ramifications...he just wanted payback for what was done to Kaine, Madame Web and Martha Franklin...but even so...he managed to avoid killing anyone.

You said earlier that I might be getting Morals off confused with Bloodlusted...Let me assure you i think of them both as entirely separate things

Morals off: This character is now willing to kill to accomplish his mission objectives. His combat tactics will likely change to compensate for this new outlook...but otherwise he is in character. I'd say the best example we've ever really seen Peter go truly Morals off is in that What If where him and Wolverine were partners...and of course, that isn't canon. But in that he was killing very dispassionately. Most of the people he killed were merely obstacles to him.

Bloodlusted: This person is in a rage not in character. His entire being is focused entirely on hurting and/or killing his target. It is entirely possible to be Bloodlusted and still have morals on. In these situations the character will normally stop just short of killing. A good example of this would be after the Green Goblin murdered Gwen Stacy. Spider-Man was entirely focused on killing Osborn right up until the end, at which points he manages to restrain himself from delivering that fatal blow.

Stops at Tier two. If he makes it past blade, he loses to the Buffyverse. The standard Vamps aren't much problem, and the Uber's aren't either (since they were greatly weakend in their final fight), the extra slayers may or may not be a problem; but he won't get past Buffy, Angel, and Spike. Spiderman's good, but between the three of them they have faced the first evil, the beast, a dragon, the beast, a God, and the beings responsible for ensuring the Apocalypse occurs as schedueled, etc. Even if Spiderman were physically superior (and I'm not sure he is), both Spike and Angel can temporarily match his physical powers simply by biting him once (as Angel did in the final episode). And if the morals off thing applies to them as well, then it's not Angel but Angelus who (based on his apperances in Angel TVS) could quite possibly solo and William the Bloody who could possibly solo as well.

@rpottage said:

Stops at Tier two. If he makes it past blade, he loses to the Buffyverse. The standard Vamps aren't much problem, and the Uber's aren't either (since they were greatly weakend in their final fight), the extra slayers may or may not be a problem; but he won't get past Buffy, Angel, and Spike. Spiderman's good, but between the three of them they have faced the first evil, the beast, a dragon, the beast, a God, and the beings responsible for ensuring the Apocalypse occurs as schedueled, etc. Even if Spiderman were physically superior (and I'm not sure he is), both Spike and Angel can temporarily match his physical powers simply by biting him once (as Angel did in the final episode). And if the morals off thing applies to them as well, then it's not Angel but Angelus who (based on his apperances in Angel TVS) could quite possibly solo and William the Bloody who could possibly solo as well.

Oh Spidey is easily physically superior to all of the Buffyverse. Even at the most conservative estimates of Spidey's Strength he is at least a 10 tonner. Of Buffy, Spike and Angel....Buffy has always been said to be the strongest...and she's got no feats on that level. Spidey is a bullet timer...Buffy is not. And as far as Saving the World Goes...Spidey has done it more than they have.

@Deranged Midget said:

@Shawnbaby said:

@Deranged Midget said:

@Shawnbaby: It was Peter's story so it makes sense sense for him to shine. But in regards to morality. Peter was fully willing to kill both Fisk and Kraven, but he was otherwise convinced not to. In Grim Hunt, it was because he would completely ruin his life and in turn, destroy the Web of Life. In BiB, he could've have and had the intention of killing Fisk but instead chose to spare him in order to embarrass him.

With Kraven...He as definitely willing to kill him...but he didn't...the fact that he was talked out of it showed he still had a little something left. With Kingpin...His intention was always just to humiliate him and to send a message to everyone else..."You come after my family and I will hurt you in ways you've never imagined". He does say that if May were to die...he'd come back and finish the job on Fisk...but we'll never know if he ever really would have. In both those situations...his moral standards do drop a whole lot...but they aren't totally gone. In all honesty, In Grim Hunt I would say he was kind of Bloodlusted...he wasn't really thinking about any moral ramifications...he just wanted payback for what was done to Kaine, Madame Web and Martha Franklin...but even so...he managed to avoid killing anyone.

Good points, but regarding Grim Hunt, he wasn't so easily talked out of it per se. It took Julia's visions to force him to back off and even then, he still wasn't exactly happy. I'd have to agree though that he was borderline bloodlusted. Regarding Back in Black, I do believe he was almost without morals though. With common morality, he always pulls his punches, no matter the opponent, but in this case, he refused to pull his punches, against even common thugs and could've severely injured them or brought near death. He might've done a little less so with Fisk, but the intention was still there. He had no fear of holding back and had little remorse in beating Fisk to a pulp and could've easily shot the webbing into his lungs, killing him instantly. Peter even having these thoughts throws out most of morality in the first place as killing or severely harming someone is usually the last thing on his mind.

I'd agree Peter wasn't pulling punches...but I wouldn't say he was going all out on those punches either.

What i think the real problem he is that "Morals" are often considered to be All or None...when there's actually a whole lot of granularity to it. Back in Black Spider-Man may have been "Morals off"...but he didn't turn into the Punisher. I'd say instead of being "Off" or "On" Morals should be considered to be on a Percentage System. BiB Spidey is probably at maybe 25% morals or something like that...Low enough that he's not going to object to putting a few creeps in intensive care...but still high enough that hes not actually trying to kill them. I'd say there was almost no bloodlust to it though...he was just publicly trying to send a message that he wasn't going to be the "Friendly, Neighbourhood, Spider-Man" anymore.

Anyway, my opinion is that a 100% "Morals off" Spider-Man would be willing to do whatever it takes to take those Hulk-dogs out...and he's got the Physical stats to do so.

@Shawnbaby said:

@rpottage said:

Stops at Tier two. If he makes it past blade, he loses to the Buffyverse. The standard Vamps aren't much problem, and the Uber's aren't either (since they were greatly weakend in their final fight), the extra slayers may or may not be a problem; but he won't get past Buffy, Angel, and Spike. Spiderman's good, but between the three of them they have faced the first evil, the beast, a dragon, the beast, a God, and the beings responsible for ensuring the Apocalypse occurs as schedueled, etc. Even if Spiderman were physically superior (and I'm not sure he is), both Spike and Angel can temporarily match his physical powers simply by biting him once (as Angel did in the final episode). And if the morals off thing applies to them as well, then it's not Angel but Angelus who (based on his apperances in Angel TVS) could quite possibly solo and William the Bloody who could possibly solo as well.

Oh Spidey is easily physically superior to all of the Buffyverse. Even at the most conservative estimates of Spidey's Strength he is at least a 10 tonner. Of Buffy, Spike and Angel....Buffy has always been said to be the strongest...and she's got no feats on that level. Spidey is a bullet timer...Buffy is not. And as far as Saving the World Goes...Spidey has done it more than they have.

He may have saved the world, but not in the same way. It's not the same level.

As for the strength, that's only one measure and it's incomplete. We haven't really seen the upper limits of the three. We know they can break through giant metal doors, break cement, and that Angel can survive the intense pressure of the deep ocean. In terms of speed Spiderman typically uses his Spidersense to warn him to move so I'm not sure how fast he really is in comparison. He can't survive bullets or swords the way Spike and Angel can so he has inferior durability, as well they can heal much faster and have never shown to really tire. So while Spiderman is stronger and possibly faster; he is less durable, has an inferior healing factor, and has less endurance than the vamps. And his Strength and Speed (and likely his spider-sense) is easily obtained by biting him.

@rpottage said:

@Shawnbaby said:

@rpottage said:

Stops at Tier two. If he makes it past blade, he loses to the Buffyverse. The standard Vamps aren't much problem, and the Uber's aren't either (since they were greatly weakend in their final fight), the extra slayers may or may not be a problem; but he won't get past Buffy, Angel, and Spike. Spiderman's good, but between the three of them they have faced the first evil, the beast, a dragon, the beast, a God, and the beings responsible for ensuring the Apocalypse occurs as schedueled, etc. Even if Spiderman were physically superior (and I'm not sure he is), both Spike and Angel can temporarily match his physical powers simply by biting him once (as Angel did in the final episode). And if the morals off thing applies to them as well, then it's not Angel but Angelus who (based on his apperances in Angel TVS) could quite possibly solo and William the Bloody who could possibly solo as well.

Oh Spidey is easily physically superior to all of the Buffyverse. Even at the most conservative estimates of Spidey's Strength he is at least a 10 tonner. Of Buffy, Spike and Angel....Buffy has always been said to be the strongest...and she's got no feats on that level. Spidey is a bullet timer...Buffy is not. And as far as Saving the World Goes...Spidey has done it more than they have.

He may have saved the world, but not in the same way. It's not the same level.

As for the strength, that's only one measure and it's incomplete. We haven't really seen the upper limits of the three. We know they can break through giant metal doors, break cement, and that Angel can survive the intense pressure of the deep ocean. In terms of speed Spiderman typically uses his Spidersense to warn him to move so I'm not sure how fast he really is in comparison. He can't survive bullets or swords the way Spike and Angel can so he has inferior durability, as well they can heal much faster and have never shown to really tire. So while Spiderman is stronger and possibly faster; he is less durable, has an inferior healing factor, and has less endurance than the vamps. And his Strength and Speed (and likely his spider-sense) is easily obtained by biting him.

How are they "easily going to bite him" when he moves so much faster than they do? And Both Spike and Angel can and have been knocked unconscious by far less than Spidey.

How exactly is Spider-Man saving the world "not the same level" as Buffy, Angel, and Spike saving the World.

Glory was a God sure...but she's got no feats that put her on Spidey's level either. Not while trapped in a mortal body anyway.

Angel never actually slayed the Dragon...he just said he wanted to. And, in the comics, he actually made friends with the Dragon.

The Mayor? Buffy Blew up the School to do that.

Adam? Half-Demon Half Cyborg...the Scoobies had to merge their essences and call on the First Slayer to take him down

Dark Willow? Buffy couldnt do nothing there...Xander saved the world that time.

The Master? Not bad...but Buffy did have to die once to beat him.

Jasmine? Connor did that and she was powerless at the time.

First Evil? killed a buncha ubervamps with some nifty plot devices.

@Deranged Midget said:

@Shawnbaby: I'll have to agree to disagree regarding the morality Peter possessed in those situations.

Fair enough...I was thinking along the same lines myself.

@laflux said:

@Shawnbaby: I would say Spider-Man was 100 Percent morals off in BIB. He was more than willing to kill the sniper, he even promised the sniper "Punisher style" that he would kill him quickly, if he told him who put him up to shot Aunt May, but would torture him before killing him if he didn't. He also tortured some helpless soul by almost letting him be eaten by rats. Getting Information was his primary goal, but he was more than happy to kill throughout the arc if need be. Same goes with Fisk. If he was blood-lusted, he would have killed him in one blow, like he did to him in the related What-If Mary-Jane was shot instead of Aunt May arc. Spider-Man's goal was to humiliate Fisk, and if Aunt May died, he would have gladly finished the job. BIB was awesome, and if anything, it was plot which stopped Spider-Man from killing, rather than his own morals.

Saying that your going to kill someone does not equal actually performing the deed. He said he was going to kill Norman Osborn after Gwen Stacy was killed as well...never did it. He said he was going kill the Sniper either way...but he didn't do it.

@laflux said:

@Shawnbaby said:

@laflux said:

@Shawnbaby: I would say Spider-Man was 100 Percent morals off in BIB. He was more than willing to kill the sniper, he even promised the sniper "Punisher style" that he would kill him quickly, if he told him who put him up to shot Aunt May, but would torture him before killing him if he didn't. He also tortured some helpless soul by almost letting him be eaten by rats. Getting Information was his primary goal, but he was more than happy to kill throughout the arc if need be. Same goes with Fisk. If he was blood-lusted, he would have killed him in one blow, like he did to him in the related What-If Mary-Jane was shot instead of Aunt May arc. Spider-Man's goal was to humiliate Fisk, and if Aunt May died, he would have gladly finished the job. BIB was awesome, and if anything, it was plot which stopped Spider-Man from killing, rather than his own morals.

Saying that your going to kill someone does not equal actually performing the deed. He said he was going to kill Norman Osborn after Gwen Stacy was killed as well...never did it. He said he was going kill the Sniper either way...but he didn't do it.

He only didn't kill the sniper because he was shot and killed by some of Kingpin's goons. He was pissed off not because he was killed, but because he didn't get the information he wanted.

That's an unknowable. You can only assume that he would have killed the Sniper. History tells a different story. Once again, after Gwen Stacy was murdered Peter said he was going to kill Osborn...but in the end he still couldn't do it. Throughout the Back in Black Storyline...not one person was killed by Spider-Man despite his supposed "Morals off" state. Was he much more violent? Of course...but he still didn't ever cross the line into murder.