Spider-Man & Iron Man Vs. Iceman & Angel

@noone301994: None of those images show the temperature throughout his suit so you can't prove that he was experiencing colder temperatures. Given that he (his body and his suit, not even getting into his weaponry, thrusters, and people and things around him) are radiating heat, it is unlikely that he's experiencing space at its coldest. It's like you completely ignored that first paragraph I wrote.

As for your argument that the suit wasn't being affected on the inside, your guess that a human would be severely damaged by such temperatures doesn't hold up in comics. Ask Batman. (Funny that I've used this twice now in the last couple weeks).

Iron Man could have been exposed to those temperatures and been fine. And even if it didn't get that far into the suit, it still could have been affecting the suits technology. The decreasing function of the suit suggests that more than it supports anything you're saying.

@buckshot: Yeah I guess that's true that it didn't show the temperatures in his suit but if they were in space for a really long time it's common sense that it would be cold as hell...

Batman in that scan probably wasn't in space for very long right? Not as long as Iron Man could stay in space.

Idc if it's an unrealistic comic book or not, if a normal human can survive temperatures of -430 degrees F and lower then that's just stupid.

@noone301994: Yes its common sense that it would be cold, but there is a wide range of "cold". The cold Iron Man's suit's outer layers are exposed to need not necessarily be anywhere near as cold as the temperature Blizzard was subjecting the armor to.

Batman wouldn't need to be in space for long for my point to stand. You said you could accurately report what was going on in the suit because Tony was in there and if a human was exposed to the those temperatures, "they would die or there would be noticeable and irreversible damage." Batman disproves your point. A human could be out in space and not necessarily have much to show for it, so Tony could have been experiencing those cold temperatures briefly without ill effect. So once again, you cannot accurately report what was going on in that suit.

Feel free to think it's stupid if you wish, I'm just pointing out how what's shown in comics doesn't support your argument. Satisfied yet?

@noone301994:

According to NASA and real life logic, yes it does necessarily mean that it would be actually COLDER than the temperature Blizzard was subjecting. Even if I am wrong at least you can see where I am coming from in this argument.

No it actually doesn't. The measurement you're basing this entire pointless squabble on comes from a thermometer that is not near heat and has been allowed to lose its own heat. Iron Man wouldn't be experiencing the same degree of cold because he is at least retaining his heat is, more likely, generating even more. I'm not sure how you haven't gotten this by now unless you're just willfully ignoring it. If you can show otherwise, sure, go for it, but you haven't yet. (And if you can, you still have to deal with the whole, internal cold thing.)

In the first paragraph you just said that it probably wasn't as cold in space as what Blizzard was subjecting, yet here you are saying that it WAS as cold as what Blizzard was subjecting and Batman withstood it. Which is it? Anyway, how long was Batman stuck there in space? Was it longer than what Iron Man withstood the freezing from Blizzard? If so I take back what I said about sub zero temperatures killing someone that quickly.

I said Iron Man doesn't normally experience that cold, not that space isn't that cold. There's a difference that you should have grasped by now. You should also have grasped that I'm cutting of your argument from both ends. I'm saying that Iron Man hasn't experienced that cold to say that Blizzard affecting him with it is PIS, but also that even if he did, Iron Man wouldn't have been hurt by it like you're saying he would (which you're using to say that he wasn't).

The only part of my argument that isn't supported by comics is that humans are killed or injured instantly by sub zero temperatures. Even though that seems kind of stupid but I guess real logic doesn't apply here.

You're honestly surprised that in a universe where people dodge bullets like it's their job, logic is mutable?

Ironman could solo this. Bobby is an omega but he never uses his max piers cuz he can't control them well. In character ironman owns him

Some one hasn't read about Iceman recently more so Astonishing X-Men 62 to 65 Iceman owns the entire world Thor included .

Ice-man won't be solo'ing Ironman and Spidey...yes he is powerful, but Iron-Man has gone head up with some massive powers. Magneto included. This is a lot closer than people think, I am taking team two though, because as stated Bobby is a problem when he turns it on.

@noone301994:

Unlike a thermometer left out in space to cool down, Iron Man is a functioning human body in a machine filled with active circuitry that fires lasers, has rocket feet, is usually in space fighting something and or is surrounded by other bodies, other materials, and is not making sure to stay out of light sources that would provide more heat. It boggles my mind that you can't see how Iron Man would still have heat without even really trying to, and that's without even the barest attempts at keeping it in. What light can there be in a head that holds such tangible darkness? Some basic insulation would allow Iron Man, who is already generating or gaining heat from a variety of sources, to retain the heat he gets. If he has something that keeps him at a comfortable temperature, but doesn't do all the work of making things a certain heat level (because all the other activity in or around the suit is able to heat him up and he just has to stay there, not get hotter) then his countermeasures wouldn't necessarily be ones that can counteract temperatures he's not used to. Maybe I can make it simpler. If he's automatically generating far more heat than the thermometer, he wouldn't have to worry about experiencing that level of cold since he'd never reach it because he's generating heat in so many more ways than that thermometer. And if his armor allows him to more or less stay at a naturally comfortable level by retaining heat at the level he's already generating it (not raising it beyond the coldest possible, because again, he wouldn't get that cold) then it wouldn't be prepared for something that drops it colder than he ever normally experiences. Or maybe I can make it even simpler. He might have countermeasures for the gradual loss of heat (which never goes below a certain level anyway) but not the incredibly rapid loss of heat he experienced with Blizzard that took him below its corrective threshold anyway.

And that's just assuming his technology wasn't damaged in any way by rapid freezing, which you can't support.

@buckshot: So ur saying that because Iron Man's suit is hot... He can't get cold?

@noone301994: I'm saying that something constantly generating heat would remain relatively warm (and that Blizzard's cold forced him below the temperature he normally has to correct for). Crazy, I know. Obviously such a notion must have been blown into me by all the existing devils with one breath.

@buckshot: Did you say...? Devil...?

@mitran: Makes sense to me, thanks.

@noone301994: So is this just what you do when you realize you have nothing to say?

@noone301994: Please stop your biaised argument for Iron Man. There's no way he can tank Iceman attacks. Iceman solo and pretty easily.

Months ago i made an argument saying that iceman would more than likely beat thor. Most of the viners here took me for a joke. Now that the fight has happened it woukd seem that i was right.

@buckshot: Yeah pretty much.

Wait, is it true that Iceman wouldn't use his sub zero temperature attacks with morals on? I think Iron Man could have a chance if Ice man went easy on him and didn't go all out.

@cheesesticks: Everyone human is biased. It's in our nature. Just because I make it more obvious than others doesn't make me any less special.

Why would he go easy on Iron Man? You have seen scan of these attack and yet you are saying it's PIS. So whatever we say, you always find something ridiculous to counter it. Read the latest Astonishing X-Men arc and you'll see that Iceman stomp this battle.

@cheesesticks: Well he has countermeasures for pretty much everything else so I assumed it was PIS... Excuuuuuuuuuuse me.

So if Iron Man and Ice Man fought in character he would use absolute zero temperatures and risk killing him? I mean hey, that's fine if he does, because if he goes easy Iron Man would vaporize him .

Like i said go inform yourself on Iceman. He would vaporize him? So what? Iceman can transfer his mind into any drop of water on earth. Iron Man is going to eliminate every water molecule on earth? Lol. Iceman can reform himself.

Iceman solos when bloodlusted. That Thor fight was like thors battle with magneto in the classic avengers

Iceman could potentially solo this, going with the X-Duo.

@hyperviper97: I assume if Iron Man didn't know that he could reform himself (based on files he has on every X-man) he could just form a shield around Ice Man after he reforms.

You still never answered my question. Does he use that absolute zero temperature attack on people in character? Why should I read up on him when all you have to do is say yes or no.

If he does use it in character (emergencies don't count) then he would beat Iron Man.

@noone301994: You're coming off as pretty desperate to be right about something, anything, even if it's not what the thread is about.

But anyway, this fight is morals off so whether Iceman does it in character is more or less irrelevant, but he does use it in character. The image I posted of him using it was in character. Him freezing Thor was out of character, but him freezing Legion to death was in character IIRC. And there are many other times where he freezes enemies, but not fatally. Him freezing people is standard. But again, that doesn't matter.

As for this forcefield business, Iron Man says implies that he's prepped that for Max Dillon, not that he just has that ready for anybody, so if you're the one talking about what characters do normally, this tactic wouldn't be Iron Man's go to in a random fight with Iceman. Also, Iceman has transferred his consciousness to other areas of water even when there was no moisture medium, so putting up an energy barrier wouldn't necessarily stop him anyway.

@buckshot: To the first part of ur response: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------>

Oh the fight is morals off? Nevermind then.

So the forcefield thing with Max Dillon, are you saying that he wouldn't be able to put a forcefield around anyone else unless there was prep involved? I don't see why he wouldn't consider doing that if I considered it... He's a genius and a master tactician.. But whatever. You can't prove that he would be able to reform himself outside of the shield, especially a shield so powerful that it could easily tank nukes.

@noone301994: I'm just saying what you're giving off with the way you keep trying to manufacture a win despite being shut down at every turn.

I'm saying he clearly built that one with Max Dillon in mind, a being that is nothing like Iceman. This leads me to believe that in order to trap Iceman, he'd have to make a force field with him in mind, which he wouldn't have done without prep, which, if you'll look again, he also doesn't have. I don't have to prove anything. Iceman has already shown he can move his consciousness through space without a moisture medium, so there isn't much reason to assume any sort of barrier would limit him. The physical strength of the barrier doesn't seem like it would be as significant as something like psychic strength. Bobby wouldn't be trying to break it, he'd be trying to move his mind through it.

@buckshot: Well I don't care enough to provide substantial amounts of evidence and make a legit argument. I literally type whats on my mind. It takes me no more than 45-60 seconds to respond.

Yeah but I don't see why that very same force field wouldn't work on Ice Man too. Those force fields that Iron Man creates are air tight. If they weren't then they wouldn't be able to withstand nuclear blasts. I don't think he would be able to move his mind through it because Iron Man's shields are too advanced. I think it would be the same as if Vision tried to phase through the energy fields. I don't think he would be able to do it.

@noone301994: Matter isn't mental energy.

@buckshot: Do you think that if the Invisible Woman had her shields up and Xavier tried to mentally attack her he would be able to do it?

@noone301994: Invisible woman's force fields are "psionic fields of invisible force". Because of the psionic component I wouldn't be surprised if it interfered with telepathy. Bobby once showed he was able to transfer his mind through water. He later showed that he could transfer his mind without any moisture acting as a medium. If he doesn't even need water to get his mind from one place to another anymore, what makes you think putting up a barrier would do anything now that he's moved beyond needing moisture to act as a conduit? Why assume a random physical barrier would impede a purely mental act? But this is all well beside the point, as we've already discussed.

@buckshot: Okay then so basically he teleports his mind from one place to another?

@noone301994: I think that's a pretty limited view of the mind, especially for someone like Bobby. It treats the mind like a single physical object in space, but there's no telling how it works. A few mutants with elemental powers (where they inhabit their element, not just control it), Bobby included, have made statements about their minds simply being everywhere. Bobby now routinely seems to have his consciousness equally spread out through multiple bodies and that could be seen as him having multiple versions of himself in many bodies, having one mind equally split across bodies, or having a mind nowhere "near" these bodies but controlling them all together, or something else entirely. I'm not stating I know how his personal mind/body problem is resolved, just that I don't see evidence that a random physical barrier would impede his mind.

@buckshot: Okay so if I can understand what you are saying there in that comment... Basically he has different forms of himself in different places so he could transfer his main form to different forms if need be?

@noone301994: That's not what I'm saying at all. Pegging down one way his mind works is exactly the opposite of what I'm saying. We don't know if he has a "main" mind when he has copies up which he switches between, if he has one mind affecting all bodies, or if he somehow splits his mind, or if its something else. How his mind interacts with the moisture he controls isn't clear, but it's not necessarily a discrete thing that can be locked off, especially with examples of him being "everywhere" or being able to form bodies at a distance even without having any water to use as a conduit for his mind.

@buckshot: ahh i see... So how the hell do you beat someone like that? I thought this guy was all hyped up but I guess he really is as overpowered as everyone says he is... If his mind is split, possibly in a bunch of different bodies, then technically it could be a stalemate or win for every fight he has ever been in...

@noone301994: He's a mutant. In the X-Men universe, telepaths are not rare, so beating him isn't really an issue. Endangering his friends has also been used effectively. He's only "overpowered" on the battle forum because people put a literal force of nature in physical fights. Everyone looks good when you match them up against the wrong opponents. In the situations he's normally in, he's not overpowered because he's not in simple fights where the outcome is decided by who physically hits harder. Comics aren't versus battles. Take him out of his normal environment and stick him in a ring against inferior opponents and of course he's a god.

Iceman solos.

@buckshot: So telepaths can beat him? I'm sure his writers will fix that soon.

@noone301994: smh, it's like you're butthurt over iceman being powerful and you being unable to find a valid point in this iceman/iron man thing, and like people tend to do, you're now acting like he's massively overpowered and some sort of unfair character even though he fits fine in the universe he's in.

Midnighter Syndrome.

@laflux: I nearly used him as an example. Though I could just as easily mention Death Rex as the same thing just happened when I used him in a tournament and trounced somebody.

I was thinking Swamp Thing personally.

@juiceboks: Midnighter is the classic CV example though

@buckshot I know, it's just Swamp Thing to me seems a more appropriate character to compare Bobby to given the circumstances of this discussion. What with his global elemental manipulation and being one with his element in a similar way that Bobby is.

@buckshot: He's a force of nature but he's not overpowered.

@noone301994: You seem to be unable to grasp that the "over" in overpowered relates to others and the situation the character is made for. Iceman is part of a world where he has both friends and enemies that can shut him down with a thought and has friends and enemies that would be completely unaffected by his powers. Yes, there are characters that have no hope of standing up to him, but that's true of every hero. Even Captain America, as superhuman as a character can be without being superhuman, faces enemies that, were they to go one on one with him, would have no chance at all. But just because some characters, a lot of characters, could never take him down, he's still appropriately powered for the world he's in. Iceman is the same. He's "overpowered" when you put him against characters that have no business fighting, but in the proper context, his abilities are appropriate. But whatever, I see you're back to pointless posts because you've hit yet another dead end in this conversation and haven't evolved the ability to concede a point with any grace.