Spider-Man & Iron Man Vs. Iceman & Angel

Rules

• Random encounter
• No bfr
• Morals off
• Standard equipment
• Start 50 ft apart

Location: Avengers Mansion

Iceman solos

yup Iceman solos all three of them

Angel is dead weight.

Iron Man solos

Wait, what is it that makes iceman so powerful? I've been seeing a lot of iceman vs threads and I just don't get why he would be in league with a lot of more powerful heroes.

Iceman could probably solo this.

Iceman solo.

Angel IS actually a factor if he can be Archangel.

That's 17,672 degrees Fahrenheit just as 73% power output

@noone301994 Which would have very little effect on Bobby who could simply exist as a gas.

Iceman solos all three with molecular molecule inversion or conversion.

@juiceboks: Exactly. Then how does he beat Iron Man? Does the gas leak through the slits in Iron Man's armor? There are none. He's at an even bigger disadvantage after he becomes gaseous.

Bobby can take the moisture out of Tony's body if he has to.

@juiceboks: But he's in his suit? How could he?

@noone301994 The suit doesn't protect against an attack on Tony's blood.

@juiceboks: Can you show me a scan of him doing that to someone's blood? Wouldn't he have to get close?

@noone301994 I can't post scans atm as I am not on my laptop. Bobby powers extend to a global scale, freezing someone 50ft away should be no trouble.

@juiceboks: How does that power work? He can just look at someone and freeze their blood? No questions asked? Not sure if I believe it

I hate to say it but a pissed off serious Iceman does in fact solo this. That Armor isn't going to protect Tony from being flash-frozen from the inside out. Even if it did I don't see how Iron Man beats Bobby before his suit runs out of power. Kinda sucks too because I hate seeing Spiderman get his butt kicked, but in this fight... against Iceman.... that's what happens. No amount of speed, reflexes, or Spidersense will protect him from the cold. The Iceman cometh and he is Pissed.

@schillenger420:

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Iceman wouldn't be able to freeze Tony inside out. If he froze Iron Man in a solid block of ice it would just freeze the suit on the OUTSIDE not Tony on the inside.

@noone301994: Assuming that is the case, there's still no way for Tony to put down Iceman before he runs out of power, at which point he's screwed. And yes, he can just look at someone and freeze their blood, no questions asked. Bobby's a beast like that.

@schillenger420: Okay I posted a scan of Tony shooting lasers that could easily melt Ice Man without running out of power, meanwhile you are making claims that Bobby could wink at Tony and instantly kill him without showing him ever doing that. If he can then I suppose he can beat Superman, Thor, Sentry, Thanos and why not? Galactus too! I mean he has blood right?

@noone301994: Apparently your not up to date on Iceman.... Even if Tony hit's him with that laser, he turns to steam and reforms. Short of somehow throwing him (and not one of his clones) into an incinerator, there's not a whole hell of a lot Tony can do to him. And yes, since Tony's only human Iceman can pretty much just wink at him and kill him. Unless Tony has some kind of "anti-mutant power" shields. Even if he does I just can't figure how he puts down Bobby for good. Iceman doesn't have to attack him with any kind of energy or magnetic based attack..... he just freezes everything solid.... including Stark.

It also just occurred to me, Bobby (if bloodlusted) might actually be a good match-up for a non bloodlusted Flash. Iceman literally controls kinetic energy, he slows down the movement of molecules/atoms. It's possible that if Flash gave him much time at all he'd actually be able to counter his speed.

@schillenger420: Okay clearly you are a fanboy... But why don't you prove that you are a fanboy by posting a scan of him freezing someone's blood simply by looking at them.

Iron Man flies at Mach Speeds and wouldn't be frozen so easily and even if he did he could just activate his uni-beam while in a block of ice and melt the ice. So unless you prove that he can freeze his blood with just a glance then Ice Man can't do anything to Tony.

If Iron Man realized that melting him wouldn't work he would eventually contain him in an energy field after Bobby continuously reformed.

These shields can tank the power of nuclear explosions so not sure if he could break out of it.

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@noone301994: It's not like Iceman hits him with some kind of energy attack Iron Mans shields can absorb. Iceman recently kicked the crap out of Thor for crying out loud. And yes, Iceman in the past has shown the ability to freeze people from the inside out, with a glance. A morals on Iceman would do none of this, but a morals off Iceman is absolutely brutal. Iron Man's good, but how often does he operate in absolute zero temps? Will that shield of his even work in such an environment, given that all molecular movement ceases at such temps?

@schillenger420: Okay you still haven't shown Iceman glancing and KOing anyone so I'm going to assume its an overdramatization..

What would Iceman do if Iron Man encased him in a shield? His shields (and armor) are capable of withstanding the heat and power of a nuclear blast...Those get hotter than the sun (50-150 million degrees fahrenheit), which could melt sub zero temperature ices so I assume his shields could withstand an ice blast from him. So if Iron Man's shields can withstand that much heat and power, I assume, since Ice man's sub zero temperatures would get melted, that his shields could withstand a subzero ice blast too.

@citizenbane Can you shed some light on that Thor vs Iceman fight? I didn't read it, and I only glanced at some scans of it.

Iceman solo.

@god_spawn: It was split between two issues. I read the first issue, where Iceman tried using the blood-freezing trick on Thor, which did no damage to him at all. Thor then smashed through a whole bunch of ice. I didn't read the second issue, but from what I gather Iceman didn't KO Thor in that either; the writer simply got rid of Thor by burying him under some ice and leaving him there until he dug himself out at the end of the issue while Bobby was fighting the X-Men.

@citizenbane: So basically no kicking the crap out of Thor happened like some people try to play it off as?

@god_spawn: Not as far as I know.

Iron Mans (Tony) Real power is his brain. If he knew ahead of time he was going up against Ice Man he would probably design a suit just for that battle. But seeing he doesn't in this fight I would give this one to team X-men... in a good fight...

Iron Man and Blizzard. Iron Man had to be saved by War Machine.

Maybe if that Blizzard-bot could have reached absolute zero as fast as Bobby or without having to touch him, things would have been different.

As for the Thor thing, I actually think it was working. Look at Thor's eyes. He looks a bit worried about something to me. What could that be? Bobby gives a hint in the next panel. Seems to me like it was working and Bobby stopped because he was talking to Opal. (And it's not like it's the first time either. His powers have been used against Legion in a similar way, and that time we actually got to see it go through to the end.)

Now, I don't think that would have killed Thor, him being a god and above that, one pretty comfortable with cold, but whether or not Iceman can freeze Thor is irrelevant. Iron Man is not Thor. They're completely different, and we've seen that Iron Man can be affected by cold.

@buckshot: In that second scan why didn't the absolute zero thing work on Juggernaut's helmet?

Also could you post the entire fight of Iron Man and blizzard? It seems kind of out of context...

@noone301994: It did work. The helmet is still frozen at the end of the page and on the next page Colossus is able to break it because of that (which leaves it open enough for an attempted telepathic assault). If you mean why didn't it stop Juggernaut, that's because it's Juggernaut and the point is that he doesn't stop, and that's before he got further upgraded, but stopping him wasn't the point.

The page is out of context because the context doesn't matter. The point is that cold temperatures are affecting Iron Man and there isn't much he can do about it even with it happening so slowly. Him and Blizzard flying around missing each other before that doesn't matter, and War Machine beating him after doesn't matter. But if you insist...

Gallery

@buckshot:

Oh okay.

Well it just seems like PIS IMO... You know Iron Man and War Machine can fly in space no problem, and it can get -270 degrees Celsius in space because space is just a vacuum so heat can't really get in it.. I don't understand how his suit got frozen that bad when he has already solved the cooling problem when flying into space... Plus Iron Man is much faster than that and wouldn't be caught so easily as in that fight... And even if he did get caught why didn't he just unibeam the robot? His chest was practically touching that robot's chest and the robot's arms were up, leaving it vulnerable. I can show several scans of Iron Man flying into space and withstanding the below freezing temperatures just fine, however, the scans you provided are probably the only showings of Iron Man being beaten by the cold like that.

@noone301994: Space isn't absolute zero. It's not PIS for Iron Man to be unable to handle the complete cessation of molecular movement. Your problems with that fight in particular honestly don't matter that much. Yes things could have been done differently, but they weren't and it allows you to see that extreme temperature can affect Iron Man. And given that Iceman can reach an even more extreme temperature and can do so not only much faster, but also without being in contact with Iron Man, it very strongly suggests that he can put down Iron Man with a thought.

@buckshot: Space can get up to -270 Celsius and can get close to absolute zero...NASA says that the official temperature of the space when using a thermometer reads 2.7 Kelvin which is 2.7 degrees above absolute zero. The point is why can he go into space without any problem and withstand extremely cold temperatures but in that scan it showed him being overtaken by -250? If space is 2.7 Kelvin (2.7 above absolute zero) then how can he get so easily frozen by temperatures 20 degrees hotter?

Sorry Spider fans. But as much as Angel "may" be inconsequential (his exact power sets at present are not clearly delineated) outside of plot, so too is Spider-Man. It is what it is.

That said, Iceman acts like a buffoon most of the time. In character, Tony should be able to beat him (albeit only temporarily), as he'll cut through the crap first and has the smarts to cook something up on the fly. Bobby rarely evidences his potential. Given any breadth of prep, and Tony beats him too. Still, Iceman's potential is not to be ignored. Push comes to shove, he should take this fight.

@noone301994: Near absolute zero and absolute zero are two different things. Just because Iron Man can fly around near absolute zero doesn't mean he can handle his molecules not moving anymore. Are you suggesting he can? Because unless you're suggesting that Iron Man is immune to having his molecules stopped or could function with them stopped, there's really no point in continuing with your argument. Iceman can stop molecular movement and he can do it quickly and without contact. If that will stop Iron Man, then the argument is over.

But I'll humor the rest of your argument. Why can Iron Man handle space and not Blizzards attack? Not sure, but lets guess. Maybe it's because he's not prepped for space. When Iron Man plans to go to space, he doesn't usually wear his standard armor (check out the current run) and he may take other precautions that he wouldn't take when he plans to be on Earth. We know Iron Man modifies his armor for different uses and extreme environments, so that's not a stretch. Maybe its because Blizzard isn't just exposing the outside of Iron Man's armor to cold, but, because he's in contact with him, is able to make him cold inside (inside the armor where tony is and inside the armor where circuitry is), and maybe that's the difference. It could be that in space, the armor is maintaining an internal temperature but is mostly serving as a barrier for heat loss so that only the outside of the armor is really dealing with getting colder. If that's the case, then Blizzard making it cold inside and out means that it bypasses the way the armor works to keep Tony at the right temperature because it's not used to having to raise the heat on the inside, just maintain it. Maybe Blizzard's attack is simply happening too fast for the armor. Heat loss in space isn't instantaneous so maybe when Tony is normally in space he retains heat around him better so even though space is colder than what he's experiencing here, he normally isn't dealing with that cold directly.

Also I'd say that just because he's being frozen here and we don't normally see that doesn't mean he's not getting frozen other times he's in space. Sometimes artists don't show the freezing that might happen in space. There are times when Superman has been in space and sometimes there's ice on him and sometimes there isn't. Just means that they didn't feel like showing it. Batman's been in space and not frozen over, doesn't mean nothing can freeze him, just means they didn't draw ice on him.

@noone301994: Space becomes colder the farther you are from stars and such. If you're in direct light, it's actually very hot :/

Angel is non factor (unless arch angel) and Spiderman hardly matters. Iceman can beat Ironman.

Team 2 win

Well to be honest, ever since you posted those scans I have stopped arguing that Iron Man could beat Ice man. I have leaned more toward arguing the fact that the instance with Blizzard was PIS. I agree that at absolute zero Iron Man would probably lose against Ice Man and I see now (since you posted the scan of him freezing Juggernaut's helmet) that he can freeze from a comfortable distance. I thought that those abilities were over dramatized, but I was wrong and as much as I'd hate to admit it, Iron Man would lose if Ice man froze Iron Man with a glance from a distance.

With that being said, I still have to defend Tony's honor about the incident with Blizzard... 2.7 Kelvin is the temperature a thermometer reads in space. That means in space it is -270.3 degrees Celsius in space. I have seen Iron Man in space without specialized armor before and no ice getting by just fine. How does he manage that in those instances but in that scan he just sits there and gives up as soon as his armor reaches the temperature of -250 Celsius (and decreasing)? PIS.

It's not that the circuitry and the inside of his armor is being frozen, because if that was the case Tony would have died on the inside from those temperatures. It was clearly only affecting the outside, but the outside was so cold that his armor was losing power and about to shut down in an attempt to heat up.

Iron Man (and War Machine) have been in space much longer while withstanding -270 Celsius and there was not an effect like in that scan where his armor iced up and began to fail on him... It's not just about the ice, his armor was losing power at an EXTREME rate simply because it was cold, but it wasn't even colder than what he's used to while flying around in space. And the only reason I brought up the fact that Iron Man could have unibeamed him or done something differently while in that position is to further prove that it's PIS... The lack of mobility and lack of action while being grabbed ON TOP of not being able to withstand anything less than -270.3 Celsius, in my eyes makes it plot induced stupidity... I think they just wanted to give Rhodey a cool entrance to make War Machine save him or something.

@dratini1331: Yeah that depends on if it's pointing at you (sunlight), if it is it can heat up metal up to 200+ degrees F but when it isn't pointing at you or if you are in the shade it gets up to -454.54 degrees Fahrenheit. So it does depend but when NASA scientists put a thermometer it read 2.7 Kelvin which is 2.7 degrees above absolute zero.

@noone301994: With the question settled, seems almost like you're arguing just to argue, but w/e, that doesn't bother me.

Responses to the rest of your post are already in my previous one. You keep going on about a thermometer in space, but a thermometer in space is not instantly that cold. Even assuming when Tony is in space that he's not getting heat from anywhere else, heat must be lost first before he could reach the temperatures you're talking about. If Iron Man's suit is any good at retaining heat (and think for a second, even if it wasn't, the suit generates heat, so it still wouldn't get that cold just by being in space), then he doesn't actually reach temperatures that cold normally, even if space can potentially be that cold. Blizzard was overcoming any heat he had around him and any heat he generated and forcing him to be at that temperature, so unless you've got something showing Tony at those temperatures another time and being fine in his normal suit there's not a ton of reason to believe he's had to experience that situation.

You can't accurately report on how the cold was affecting the inner workings of the suit.

The images don't say that the armor was losing power. It said function was decreasing. If anything that suggests that the cold was overpowering or directly affecting the technological function of the suit. (And that would support the idea that the cold was affecting more than just the outside.)

Iron Man not fighting at his best (which happens often, there are so many times he doesn't instantly unibeam an enemy when he could) doesn't mean him being affected by cold is PIS, but nice try. When characters fight there are always things they "could have done differently" but these fights aren't perfect. Even if you imagine that these characters are real, people make mistakes when they fight, they don't act fast enough, and sometimes they get in positions that they could have gotten out of if they'd thought about it. You're playing monday morning quarterback about fighting tactics but it doesn't change that the cold affected Iron Man.

@buckshot:

I know that the thermometer isn't going to instantly show up 2.7 Kelvin and Iron Man's armor won't instantly turn that cold due to heat inside of him, however, if he is in space for long enough it will get that cold for him eventually. He has been in space for quite a long time which means that as time passes his suit gets colder and colder. So it is reasonable to assume that yes, he has experienced those temperatures before. It's not like when he goes into space with his standard suits he only stays there for a brief amount of time...

I think I can accurately report what was going on in the inside because Tony was in the inside of the suit, therefore, if the suit was being frozen inside out, including the inner parts of it, Tony would have died from the cold temperature. If a human felt that temperature for even moments they would die or there would be noticeable and irreversible damage.