Spider-man & captain america VS Kaine & wolverine - Battles

#1 Posted by jashro44 (9261 posts) - 4 months, 10 days ago - Show Bio

Spider-Man & Captain America

Wolverine & Kaine

Rules

morals are on
Spider-man is peter
standard gear
Random encounter
Win by death/KO/incapacitation

Location

Begin 20 feat apart
Begin visible
unpopulated
Fight takes place here:

Who wins and why?

#2 Edited by Strider92 (11285 posts) - 4 months, 10 days ago - Show Bio

Team 2 in a tough fight. Cap is the weak-link in team 1. He can't beat Kaine or Logan so whoever gets Cap will win and go help the other member of their team beat Peter. If the teams were bloodlusted I would lean towards team 1.

Online

#3 Edited by heroesgold (320 posts) - 4 months, 10 days ago - Show Bio

The Spidey gets a win for the team.

#4 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - 4 months, 10 days ago - Show Bio

@Strider92 said:

Team 2 in a tough fight. Cap is the weak-link in team 1. He can't beat Kaine or Logan so whoever gets Cap will win and go help the other member of their team beat Peter. If the teams were bloodlusted I would lean towards team 1.

Why would you lean towards Team 1 if there bloodlusted? Isn't Kaine already>Spider-Man? Also hasn't Steve already beat Logan?

#5 Posted by laflux (4927 posts) - 4 months, 10 days ago - Show Bio

@jeanroygrant said:

@Strider92 said:
Team 2 in a tough fight. Cap is the weak-link in team 1. He can't beat Kaine or Logan so whoever gets Cap will win and go help the other member of their team beat Peter. If the teams were bloodlusted I would lean towards team 1.
Why would you lean towards Team 1 if there bloodlusted? Isn't Kaine already>Spider-Man? Also hasn't Steve already beat Logan?

Kaine isn't better than Peter. He has the Other Power-set, but so far his strength and Speed feats have been at best, on par with Peter, which is exasperated since he hasn't got a spider-sense. The only thing he arguably has over Peter is better pain tolerance and durability, and Stingers with the acid touch. The Stingers could be a problem, but Spider-Man has had the other power-set longer than Kaine and experience of them, and Spider-Man has easily replicated the acid burn before with his Web crawling abilities. Peter also has superior tech, such as magnetic webbing, cryo spiders etc to easily incapacitate Logan, and quickly force a two on one with Kaine. To top it off, Peter has mastered a fighting style, the way of the Spider, which is Specialized to take on people with Spider Powers- including a mutated Kaine who was alot more deadly than his current form.

Yes, Steve beat James, but he was significantly weakened.

#6 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - 4 months, 10 days ago - Show Bio

@laflux said:

@jeanroygrant said:
@Strider92 said:
Team 2 in a tough fight. Cap is the weak-link in team 1. He can't beat Kaine or Logan so whoever gets Cap will win and go help the other member of their team beat Peter. If the teams were bloodlusted I would lean towards team 1.
Why would you lean towards Team 1 if there bloodlusted? Isn't Kaine already>Spider-Man? Also hasn't Steve already beat Logan?
Kaine isn't better than Peter. He has the Other Power-set, but so far his strength and Speed feats have been at best, on par with Peter, which is exasperated since he hasn't got a spider-sense. The only thing he arguably has over Peter is better pain tolerance and durability, and Stingers with the acid touch. The Stingers could be a problem, but Spider-Man has had the other power-set longer than Kaine and experience of them, and Spider-Man has easily replicated the acid burn before with his Web crawling abilities. Peter also has superior tech, such as magnetic webbing, cryo spiders etc to easily incapacitate Logan, and quickly force a two on one with Kaine. To top it off, Peter has mastered a fighting style, the way of the Spider, which is Specialized to take on people with Spider Powers- including a mutated Kaine who was alot more deadly than his current form.
Yes, Steve beat James, but he was significantly weakened.

I see.

#7 Posted by Shawnbaby (5859 posts) - 4 months, 10 days ago - Show Bio

@laflux said:

@jeanroygrant said:
@Strider92 said:
Team 2 in a tough fight. Cap is the weak-link in team 1. He can't beat Kaine or Logan so whoever gets Cap will win and go help the other member of their team beat Peter. If the teams were bloodlusted I would lean towards team 1.
Why would you lean towards Team 1 if there bloodlusted? Isn't Kaine already>Spider-Man? Also hasn't Steve already beat Logan?
Kaine isn't better than Peter. He has the Other Power-set, but so far his strength and Speed feats have been at best, on par with Peter, which is exasperated since he hasn't got a spider-sense. The only thing he arguably has over Peter is better pain tolerance and durability, and Stingers with the acid touch. The Stingers could be a problem, but Spider-Man has had the other power-set longer than Kaine and experience of them, and Spider-Man has easily replicated the acid burn before with his Web crawling abilities. Peter also has superior tech, such as magnetic webbing, cryo spiders etc to easily incapacitate Logan, and quickly force a two on one with Kaine. To top it off, Peter has mastered a fighting style, the way of the Spider, which is Specialized to take on people with Spider Powers- including a mutated Kaine who was alot more deadly than his current form.
Yes, Steve beat James, but he was significantly weakened.

To be fair, as far as Kaine is concerned, Peter won't have his Spider-Sense either. Also, The Brand New Day "retcon" sort of made it appear as though Peter never really had those Other Powers anyway. Still in a Pete vs Kaine matchup...I'd put my money on Peter. Kaine really hasn't had any showings that put him on Peter's level just yet.

#8 Posted by laflux (4927 posts) - 4 months, 10 days ago - Show Bio

@Shawnbaby said:

@laflux said:
@jeanroygrant said:
@Strider92 said:
Team 2 in a tough fight. Cap is the weak-link in team 1. He can't beat Kaine or Logan so whoever gets Cap will win and go help the other member of their team beat Peter. If the teams were bloodlusted I would lean towards team 1.
Why would you lean towards Team 1 if there bloodlusted? Isn't Kaine already>Spider-Man? Also hasn't Steve already beat Logan?
Kaine isn't better than Peter. He has the Other Power-set, but so far his strength and Speed feats have been at best, on par with Peter, which is exasperated since he hasn't got a spider-sense. The only thing he arguably has over Peter is better pain tolerance and durability, and Stingers with the acid touch. The Stingers could be a problem, but Spider-Man has had the other power-set longer than Kaine and experience of them, and Spider-Man has easily replicated the acid burn before with his Web crawling abilities. Peter also has superior tech, such as magnetic webbing, cryo spiders etc to easily incapacitate Logan, and quickly force a two on one with Kaine. To top it off, Peter has mastered a fighting style, the way of the Spider, which is Specialized to take on people with Spider Powers- including a mutated Kaine who was alot more deadly than his current form.
Yes, Steve beat James, but he was significantly weakened.
To be fair, as far as Kaine is concerned, Peter won't have his Spider-Sense either. Also, The Brand New Day "retcon" sort of made it appear as though Peter never really had those Other Powers anyway. Still in a Pete vs Kaine matchup...I'd put my money on Peter. Kaine really hasn't had any showings that put him on Peter's level just yet.

Joe Quasada said the Other is definitely part of Peter's history and that Peter still remembers it- though him doing so isn't really a massive advantage. As for the Spider-Sense, it would still be useful if he wasn't to face Spider-Man, but maybe Captain America. And Peter's Spider-Sense did work against a mutated Kaine in Spider-Island. I always thought that Peter didn't pick him up when he was cured was because he wasn't a threat to Spider-Man anymore. However, I may be wrong on this.

#9 Posted by Shawnbaby (5859 posts) - 4 months, 10 days ago - Show Bio

@laflux said:

@Shawnbaby said:
@laflux said:
@jeanroygrant said:
@Strider92 said:
Team 2 in a tough fight. Cap is the weak-link in team 1. He can't beat Kaine or Logan so whoever gets Cap will win and go help the other member of their team beat Peter. If the teams were bloodlusted I would lean towards team 1.
Why would you lean towards Team 1 if there bloodlusted? Isn't Kaine already>Spider-Man? Also hasn't Steve already beat Logan?
Kaine isn't better than Peter. He has the Other Power-set, but so far his strength and Speed feats have been at best, on par with Peter, which is exasperated since he hasn't got a spider-sense. The only thing he arguably has over Peter is better pain tolerance and durability, and Stingers with the acid touch. The Stingers could be a problem, but Spider-Man has had the other power-set longer than Kaine and experience of them, and Spider-Man has easily replicated the acid burn before with his Web crawling abilities. Peter also has superior tech, such as magnetic webbing, cryo spiders etc to easily incapacitate Logan, and quickly force a two on one with Kaine. To top it off, Peter has mastered a fighting style, the way of the Spider, which is Specialized to take on people with Spider Powers- including a mutated Kaine who was alot more deadly than his current form.
Yes, Steve beat James, but he was significantly weakened.
To be fair, as far as Kaine is concerned, Peter won't have his Spider-Sense either. Also, The Brand New Day "retcon" sort of made it appear as though Peter never really had those Other Powers anyway. Still in a Pete vs Kaine matchup...I'd put my money on Peter. Kaine really hasn't had any showings that put him on Peter's level just yet.
Joe Quasada said the Other is definitely part of Peter's history and that Peter still remembers it- though him doing so isn't really a massive advantage. As for the Spider-Sense, it would still be useful if he wasn't to face Spider-Man, but maybe Captain America. And Peter's Spider-Sense did work against a mutated Kaine in Spider-Island. I always thought that Peter didn't pick him up when he was cured was because he wasn't a threat to Spider-Man anymore. However, I may be wrong on this.

Ben Reilly was also immune to Pete's Spider Sense. I think the reason the Mutated Kaine wasn't was because he was mutated...The Spider-Sense was not registering him as being Peter.

I can't speak for what Mr. Quesada said about Peter's Other powers...i do know they have not been brought up in the comics themselves though.

#10 Edited by Strider92 (11285 posts) - 4 months, 10 days ago - Show Bio

@Shawnbaby said:

I can't speak for what Mr. Quesada said about Peter's Other powers...i do know they have not been brought up in the comics themselves though.

They were in Spider-Island! When Kaine and Pete went off to fight the Queen Kaine said something about being resurrected and coming back with weird powers in reference to the end of Grim Hunt. Peter's reply was "Been there. Done That." It hasn't been explained why or how he lost them but he definitely remembers having them.

@jeanroygrant said:

Why would you lean towards Team 1 if there bloodlusted? Isn't Kaine already>Spider-Man? Also hasn't Steve already beat Logan?

I shall explain why! In a normal fight both Steve and Peter lack any kind of violent instinct. Both Kaine and Logan don't. Do not get me wrong Cap isn't beating a bloodlusted Wolverine or Scarlet Spider however Spider-man is going to be far more versatile with him Morals Off. Steve will still be able to very temporarily deal with either Logan or Kaine (Kaine he wouldn't last very long against but he could keep Logan dancing a while). However bloodlusted Spider-man is capable of taking down either one due to him completely not holding back.

Say for scenario's sake that Peter's initial opponent is Wolverine. Even when not bloodlusted Spider-man has incapacitated him quite quickly:

If he can do that with Morals On then he can definitely do it faster with Morals Off. Not to mention the Spider-man were using still has his Horizon tech and thus magnetic webbing:

Wolverine had trouble escaping normal webbing. Imagine trying to escape from magnetic webbing when your bones are made of metal! As soon as that is over it allows Peter to go after Kaine who would have no doubt by now completely beaten down Captain America. While Kaine is arguably superior to Peter in physical stats he doesn't have much experience with his new power-set. Due to Peter's experience and Way Of The Spider training he should beat Kaine with difficulty. While Kaine is very tough he lacks the feats to give him a win over Peter. I have no doubt that in a few years Kaine will be on Peter's level and this argument will be very different. As it stands though Kaine isn't quite there yet.

If Spider-man starts the fight against Kaine then the same thing happens just the other way around. Wolverine will still beat Cap but won't do it as fast as Kaine could leaving free time for Spider-man to take on the Scarlet Spider. After that is over he can move onto Wolverine and pull the web trick.

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#11 Posted by Shawnbaby (5859 posts) - 4 months, 10 days ago - Show Bio

@Strider92 said:

@Shawnbaby said:
I can't speak for what Mr. Quesada said about Peter's Other powers...i do know they have not been brought up in the comics themselves though.
They were in Spider-Island! When Kaine and Pete went off to fight the Queen Kaine said something about being resurrected and coming back with weird powers in reference to the end of Grim Hunt. Peter's reply was "Been there. Done That." It hasn't been explained why or how he lost them but he definitely remembers having them.

That's a good point (must have missed that exchange when i read it the first time)....although Spider-Man actually "died" twice in that time period...Once as the Giant Spider in "Disassembled" and once again when Morlun killed him in "The Other". Both times he rezzed with new Powers.

#12 Posted by HughJackmanFan88 (63 posts) - 4 months, 10 days ago - Show Bio

WOLVERINE SOLOS

#13 Posted by spiderpool94 (467 posts) - 4 months, 10 days ago - Show Bio

I don't care what Wolverime fanboys say, spiderman beats Wolverine. Cap would hold out against Kaine and the two would take him down together.

#14 Posted by Strider92 (11285 posts) - 4 months, 10 days ago - Show Bio

@spiderpool94 said:

I don't care what Wolverime fanboys say, spiderman beats Wolverine. Cap would hold out against Kaine and the two would take him down together.

The first part is true. However it may take a while. The second part however is not. Due to Kaine's morals he would most likely beat Cap down rather easily. Then it comes down to Kaine and Logan Vs Spider-man which Spidey can't win unfortunately.

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#15 Posted by spiderpool94 (467 posts) - 4 months, 10 days ago - Show Bio

Cap is a better fighter than Kaine. I think he has the skill and experience to hold out. He'll just take a beating. When Spidey's taken Logan on in the past he subdues him quickly by simply webbing him up.

#16 Edited by comicace3 (1489 posts) - 4 months, 10 days ago - Show Bio

@heroesgold: Noooo... Wolverine could beat cap, and Kaine can definitely solo. He has fought three spidermen single handedly until it was a stalemate. 3 at the same time. His spider sense is so acute he could basically see the future before it happens.

#17 Posted by heroesgold (320 posts) - 4 months, 10 days ago - Show Bio

@comicace3: Spider-man has knocked out Logan before, so Wolverine cannot solo. Kaine possible could solo, but Spider-man isn't going out with a fight plus i'm sure Peter is more experienced then like 10,12 (idk) years ago ?

#18 Posted by comicace3 (1489 posts) - 4 months, 10 days ago - Show Bio

@heroesgold: Check my reply again I changed it. And Kaine isn't going down with a fight either. Like I said he fought 3 spidermen ( including spider man into a stalemate all at the same time). His spider sense is much more powerful than any other spider man. So if you wanna talk about experience.... there you go.

#19 Edited by Strider92 (11285 posts) - 4 months, 10 days ago - Show Bio

@comicace3 said:

@heroesgold: Check my reply again I changed it. And Kaine isn't going down with a fight either. Like I said he fought 3 spidermen ( including spider man into a stalemate all at the same time). His spider sense is much more powerful than any other spider man. So if you wanna talk about experience.... there you go.

That was classic Kaine. Since Spider-Island his powerset has changed. Kaine now has powers Spider-man had when he got resurrected by the "Other" and no longer has his enhanced spider-sense.

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#20 Posted by heroesgold (320 posts) - 4 months, 10 days ago - Show Bio

@Strider92 said:

@comicace3 said:
@heroesgold: Check my reply again I changed it. And Kaine isn't going down with a fight either. Like I said he fought 3 spidermen ( including spider man into a stalemate all at the same time). His spider sense is much more powerful than any other spider man. So if you wanna talk about experience.... there you go.
That was classic Kaine. Since Spider-Island his powerset has changed. Kaine now has powers Spider-man had when he got resurrected by the "Other" and no longer has his enhanced spider-sense.

This.

#21 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - 4 months, 10 days ago - Show Bio

@Strider92 said:

@Shawnbaby said:
I can't speak for what Mr. Quesada said about Peter's Other powers...i do know they have not been brought up in the comics themselves though.
They were in Spider-Island! When Kaine and Pete went off to fight the Queen Kaine said something about being resurrected and coming back with weird powers in reference to the end of Grim Hunt. Peter's reply was "Been there. Done That." It hasn't been explained why or how he lost them but he definitely remembers having them.
@jeanroygrant said:
Why would you lean towards Team 1 if there bloodlusted? Isn't Kaine already>Spider-Man? Also hasn't Steve already beat Logan?
I shall explain why! In a normal fight both Steve and Peter lack any kind of violent instinct. Both Kaine and Logan don't. Do not get me wrong Cap isn't beating a bloodlusted Wolverine or Scarlet Spider however Spider-man is going to be far more versatile with him Morals Off. Steve will still be able to very temporarily deal with either Logan or Kaine (Kaine he wouldn't last very long against but he could keep Logan dancing a while). However bloodlusted Spider-man is capable of taking down either one due to him completely not holding back.
Say for scenario's sake that Peter's initial opponent is Wolverine. Even when not bloodlusted Spider-man has incapacitated him quite quickly:
If he can do that with Morals On then he can definitely do it faster with Morals Off. Not to mention the Spider-man were using still has his Horizon tech and thus magnetic webbing:
Wolverine had trouble escaping normal webbing. Imagine trying to escape from magnetic webbing when your bones are made of metal! As soon as that is over it allows Peter to go after Kaine who would have no doubt by now completely beaten down Captain America. While Kaine is arguably superior to Peter in physical stats he doesn't have much experience with his new power-set. Due to Peter's experience and Way Of The Spider training he should beat Kaine with difficulty. While Kaine is very tough he lacks the feats to give him a win over Peter. I have no doubt that in a few years Kaine will be on Peter's level and this argument will be very different. As it stands though Kaine isn't quite there yet.
If Spider-man starts the fight against Kaine then the same thing happens just the other way around. Wolverine will still beat Cap but won't do it as fast as Kaine could leaving free time for Spider-man to take on the Scarlet Spider. After that is over he can move onto Wolverine and pull the web trick.

I agree