Spider-Man Battle of the Week VOTING: Scarlet Spider vs. Lizard

This seems like a pretty close fight.

Does The Lizard actually still have that ability he used in Shed? (I know he can't use it here)

I think.. I'll take Scarlet Spider here. Lizard can certainly hurt him, but Kaine can take a really, really massive beating before succumbing to it, especially blunt force. He's the more versatile combatant and I figure this fight will go something like Ali vs Foreman, for a lack of a better example.

Lizard doesn't use blunt force though. He's bringing stabbing damage to the table via his claws, and while Kaine is the more versatile combatant overall, he tends to limit himself to using his stingers in melee range. He has CIS of sorts.

@wolverine08: True, true. Still, I figure unless Lizard takes out something vital Kaine can fight through it. Actually.. the more I think about it, Lizard does have more of the important advantages.

To be fair, he can dish out blunt force via his tail. But yeah, stabbing/slashing via claws and even teeth are bound to happen.

I'm kind of tentative as of now towards how this will all play out, but I feel Kaine can win this depending on how he goes about the options laying before him. Lizard brings the damage soak edge via his absolutely ridiculous healing factor which would give him a pretty big edge in a close quarters fight, and would help him take any damage Kaine can throw out via his stingers except for decapitation or dismemberment. Considering that this is post Shed Lizard, the speed is also going to be a problem as well. The guy was blitzing Spider-Man, and while Kaine is indeed physically faster than Peter, the speed difference between the two is ultimately fairly negligible, and the only thing that saved Peter from Connor's speed was his prodigious use of his Spider Sense and Way of the Spider martial style. Two things that unfortunately, Kaine does not have up his sleeves. Kaine on the other hand boasts the main advantage of being more versatile overall. He's rocking comparable strength that while superior to Spider-Man's most likely isn't as good as Lizard's, and he doesn't have to engage Lizard solely in close range combat. While he isn't as good with web incap as someone like a Spider-Man per say(Whom has his Spider Sense guiding his webbing), he's web incapped a werewolf sporting physicals almost equal to his, has organic webbing(Which in large amounts has held down Iron Man), and he doesn't completely shun the webbing in combat even if it isn't his primary option. The webbing gives him the edge of being able to bang inside and outside with Lizard. And while he won't beat Lizard solely close quarters, he can hold his own there. He has his stingers which can cause severe damage to Lizard if he goes for the right areas, and his Other amped physicals will help him hang in there better. It's all about him just using his brain here.

As of now, I'd say that if Kaine goes primarily close quarters, he'll lose. If he mixes and matches close/ranged combat, he'll pull a majority after a tough fight.

Uggggggggggggghhhhhh, @laflux, I just made an extende dpost in a Spider-Man related thread. I think I'm becoming a Spider nut hugger........

@wolverine08 I wouldn't say that Kaine is as strong as Lizard. While Kaine is undoubtedly stronger than Peter, I don't believe it's to the degree that Connors is. Kaine did break out restraints designed for Peter. While that shows that he is indeed stronger than him, it took time and visible effort for him to do so. Connors however, is according to Peter three times as strong as him. I'd say that enough to say that he's stronger than Kaine.

alright here we go Scarlet Spider FTW lets go into why @k4tzm4n

Physicals- obvious choice here... his Physicals are better than Peters. When he actually decided to kill Kraven he did it in one punch. i know it will take a long more here but Kaines physicals give him better dodging abilities and much stronger blows. The Lizard is very durable no doubt but enough punches from Kaine and he'll start to feel them

Webbing- lets not forget that Kaine has more than just regular webbing. He has acidic webbing. Will this hurt the Lizard? probably... will it give him the win by itself most certainly not. but it will be a contributing factor.

Stealth- Kaines suit allows him to turn Invisible. Now, unless im mistaken, The Lizard has some enhanced senses so this will work in short bursts. he goes invisible for 5 seconds and then appears after punching the lizard. this ties back to his superior striking power.

Durability- i know this ties into Physicals but he really is durable. to blunt force and slashing... his bout with Wolverine was staged (but its pretty much how the fight would have gone down if they were actually fighting)

Stingers/blade/stabby things- these things have pierced Carnage so can they pierce the Lizard? absolutely and they will hurt allot. I believe the Lizard has a minor healing factor (no where close to the same level as Wolverine or Deadpool)

so i figure once Kaine stabby stabs The Lizard enough times, The Lizard will either get incaped/koed/killed or he'll make a "tactical" retreat. Kianes versatility really is going to be a big help in this fight.

just my thoughts though

Yeah, that's why I mainly stuck with comparable in my measurement of their strength.

@wolverine08

He's rocking comparable if not greater physical strength

Hmm?

@kidman560 While Kaine is indeed stronger than Peter, he's not as strong as Curt. I highly doubt Kaine could put him down with just H2H.

@kidman560: lizard has a minorbhealingn factor? He's HF is arguably better than wolverines

On the battle I believe lizard will win, Lainey's not as smart as peter or as skilled, he'll relay on his own abilities which are indeed powerful but not comparable with the lizard one major hit from lizard and Kaine will go down

i believe that a combination of his blows + his stingers and his ability to move faster than Pete IE dodge more of Lizards attacks should allow him the victory

@kidman560 Curt also has claws and his teeth to add to his already greater strength. He's also faster than Peter.

I have a feeling this fight would be similar to Kaine's fight with the werewolves

I think Kaine has got this. Itll be a tough fight but he is stronger than Spidey, and wouldn't hesitate to put his stingers through Curt's head

So was Kraven... and Kaine killed him in one punch

also that whole fight Kaine was taking blunt and slashing damage... i stand by my first posr

@kidman560: Kraven isn't faster than Spider-Man. He's just studied his fighting style, allowing him to predict Peter's moves.

@kidman560: Just fyi, Kraven isn't faster than Peter and he's not more durable than Lizard ;)

@kidman560 He isn't faster than Peter nor is he as durable as Connors

@kidman560: I dunno if you heard but Kraven isn't faster than Peter

Oh, my point has already been made.

Surprised to see no one's voted too close to call.

WE WILL NOT BE INDECISIVE!

I AM THE 3%!

the one problem with Peter vs Lizard was that peter is always holding back, because he doesnt want to hurt kurt conners. But kaine. Nothing holds him back

Peter has admitted to not holding back on at least one occasion and says he still hurt his hand against Curt's body.

Im sorry Connors, you maybe a formidable monster in your own right, but in this scenario you're nothing but...

Scarlet Spider, Lizard's got savage brain and wouldn't be as effective in the fight as he would be with the higher intelligence.

Maybe i missed it guys but which version of the lizard is being used? Is it lizard 2.0 while amazing was ending?

@spidershamrock Kaine isn't exactly Einstein either. Savagery all is they need really.

Lizard 8-9/10. He is way stronger, faster, has a healing factor, and claws. He has every notable advantage and Kaine doesn't use webbing often if at all. It is an epic and bloody fight but I don't see Kaine winning.

Lizard should have much higher damage soak. Peter stabbed him in one side of his brain and he still had to use all his webbing to restrain Lizard. His versatility won't help him in melee.

Current lizard was dodging Peters attacks, and Peter couldn't touch him (I will upload scans in a bit if needed). He should be more agile than Kaine.

Lizards physicals are way out of Peters leagues. He's been stated to be 3X stronger than Peter, by Peter himself and that was before his recent upgrade, he was blitzing peter so he is way faster. Kaine does not have better dodging abilities at all. When he can dance around someone as fast and agile as spider-man (and considering he struggled with Anna Kravenoff of all people thats not happening) he will be faster.

Kaine does not have acidic webbing unless I am missing something. THats peter. Additionally kaine has no accuracy feats to tag Lizard and he doesn't use webbing often

Lizards healing factor gives him much greater durability and wolverine wasn't trying to kill kaine in that fight where as lizard will rip Kiane limb from limb.

Lizard can tank stingers without much problem whereas conversely the same cannot be said for Kaine and lizard claws and teeth.

It takes a lot to incapacitate Lizard. Much less than it takes to incapacitate Kaine.

And Lizard is >>>>>>>>Kraven in stats as well.

Kaine can't fight like he normally does that's why he loses spidey uses environment to win in a straight up fight lizard will win peter has the intelligence, Kaine will just rush in and lose

I think you should. It seems as though some are underestimating Lizard.

@jashro44: BLASPHEMY!!

@k4tzm4n: Is this Lizard with Connors mind or is this the Lizard persona? If its the pLizard persona is his mind stable or is it going to be like how it was in no turning back (seeing Connors wife and such)?

Actually Peters spider-sense and way of the spider didn't help him against current Lizard. Lizard was having a mental breakdown at the time, and because there were people around when he attacked them he was Connors wife and son. And COnnors mind was starting to influence Lizard so he would stop attacking them which is the only reason Peter even touched current Lizard.

The problem with webbing is that Kaine has no notable accuracy feats to tag someone as fast and agile as current lizard. Also its going to take a lot of webbing to stop current Lizard since even after spider man stabbed Lizard with what was suppose to be a cure in one side of his brain he still had to use all the webbing he had left to restrain Lizard. lizard could very well claw his way out of webbing unless Kaine decides to spam heavy amounts of webbing.I don't see Kaine tagging Lizard with webbing.

@k4tzm4n: All right I will in a bit.

@god_spawn LOL

@jashro44: Curt is not in control and yes, it's stable. There won't be any conflict. I want to keep the fight basic.

I'm leaning towards Lizard right now, although I mostly know Kaine by rep and not from direct reading, so I'm open to persuasion.

But my impression is that their strength and speed are not dramatically different. Possibly Lizard is stronger and faster. The classic strength comparison between Peter and Lizard was that Peter was at 10 tons and Lizard at 14, but lots has happened since then, the Lizard has evolved multiple times. I would still be surprised that Lizard would be 3x Peter's strength though.

Kaine is obviously a fairly no morals guy. But is he more ferocious than Lizard? Lizard just wants to kill all mammals dead. Of course, this may be comparing a guy who is perfectly willing to kill his enemies with a guy who is very excited to kill his enemies. It may not matter.

Kaine has some sharp spines. Lizard has claws and teeth. I would argue that Lizard is probably slightly ahead here, in that is they are theoretically holding each other's hands so they can't claw each other, Lizard can still bite Kaine. But again this is fairly close.

So all that is pretty similar, and maybe a small edge to Lizard in each category. But the deciding factor to me is his healing factor. It's strong enough to recover missing limbs over time. It's good. I think this fight would be a long slog of wearing each other down, cut by cut, hit by hit, kick by kick. And in the end, Lizard is going to be able to tank those blows and slashes better than Kaine. He'll be the long-term survivor.

Now, one other factor. Kaine apparently has Pete's stealth suit? One of my big questions is, does he actually use it to become invisible, and often? Is that in character for him in this kind of battle? That could have an effect on my thinking here. Although I would also wonder whether the Lizard could sense him by smell etc.

So for now, I just think Lizard is better equipped to out-survive what Kaine can do than Kaine is equipped to out-survive what Lizard can do.

@jashro44:

Actually Peters spider-sense and way of the spider didn't help him against current Lizard. Lizard was having a mental breakdown at the time, and because there were people around when he attacked them he was Connors wife and son. And COnnors mind was starting to influence Lizard so he would stop attacking them which is the only reason Peter even touched current Lizard.

Oh, I'm admittedly not as well read on current Lizard as I am Kaine, so thanks for the information.

The problem with webbing is that Kaine has no notable accuracy feats to tag someone as fast and agile as current lizard. Also its going to take a lot of webbing to stop current Lizard since even after spider man stabbed Lizard with what was suppose to be a cure in one side of his brain he still had to use all the webbing he had left to restrain Lizard. lizard could very well claw his way out of webbing unless Kaine decides to spam heavy amounts of webbing.I don't see Kaine tagging Lizard with webbing.

Well, he did tag and incap that werewolf whom had physicals that were comparable to his back during the earlier issues of Scarlet Spider, but you are right in that he's limited in the accuracy department since he doesn't use webbing as much as he should.

@owie:

Now, one other factor. Kaine apparently has Pete's stealth suit? One of my big questions is, does he actually use it to become invisible, and often? Is that in character for him in this kind of battle?

No, not really. Only times I can remember him utilizing his stealth suit are when he broke into the Jean Grey School for Higher Learning looking for Wolverine. Kaine really doesn't make use of it combat wise.

Consider that Kaine does not have Pete's Spider Sense though. He will likely be getting hit more than Pete does, if anything.

Actually, Connors was holding back too. He always saw Pete as a son and tried to hold himself back as much as possible, even wresting control back from "The Lizard" just as he was about to kill Pete several times. This isn't the case any longer post-Shed but even while Connors was holding back he curbstomped Pete in almost every fight they had. One of their fights ended with him throwing Pete off a building and Pete only survived due to landing on some cushions that happened to be in a dumpster. Another time Pete had to be rescued by the X-men.

I can't recall a time Pete's ever even come close to beating Lizard in a straight-up fight. He usually needs to take advantage of LIzard's weaknesses (ice/cold) or some kind of plot device.

Now to be fair, Kaine is physically superior to Pete and more ruthless so he has better chances here but it's not as simple as saying "Pete has beaten him so Kaine can too".

I'm....backing the Lizard on this one. I feel that his strength is a bit stronger than Kaine's. The strength is actually very comparable, however the Lizard has still showed consistent feats showing he has at least a 5 ton advantage over Kaine. Another thing that the Lizard has over Kaine is speed. While Kaine is certainly fast, I highly doubt he can speedblitz Spiderman like the Lizard did. In fact, the only thing that kept Spiderman from being torn up from Lizard's speed was his spider sense, something Kaine doesn't have. Albeit, Kaine is faster than Spidey, but I still think Lizard will be able to blitz the Scarlet Spider. Durability and healing factor are also a major part of this battle, two things the Lizard happens to excel in. I doubt Scarlet can pierce Lizard deep enough to actually kill him and once he lets the stingers out Lizard will immediately heal. And punching Lizard never seems to be a real pain to Lizard, even if the person punching is as strong as Kaine. I would like to take note on Kaine's piercing durability too. Kaine has been stabbed by Carnage through the stomach and shrugged it off. While this is impressive I believe constant stab from Lizard will put him down. Next, I would like to touch on ruthlessness. They both can be but I strongly think Lizard will start by trying to kill while Kaine start out in that state of mind. That also makes a huge difference IMO. Lastly, I feel I should touch on versatility which while a clear edge to Scarlet Spider isn't all that effective. He has stingers which as I've touched on won't be that much of a threat to the Lizard. Next is webbing, which again won't do much. He uses webbing a lot more ineffectively than Spider Man, and Lizard has done superb against Spider Man's webs. The most dangerous thing in Kaine's arsenal is the suit which can go invisible. It's a pretty suit but once he makes a move he will give away his position.

While Kaine is a tough cookie, Lizard's physicals give him a win of 7/10

All right good to know.

No problem.

I did forget about the fight with the wolves and I will have to reread it but I don't think the Lobos are as fast as lizard. Anyways here are a few scans for now:

Gallery

Gallery

Gallery

I might try to get some more scans but I just want to get these out there right now. Make sure you check out the first set since those are scans of Lizards most recent transformation in no turning back. Those are the most important set of scans.