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Posted by k4tzm4n (36405 posts) 2 months, 18 days ago

Poll: Spider-Man Battle of the Week VOTING: Green Goblin vs. Venom (334 votes)

Green Goblin (Norman Osborn) 37%
Venom (Flash Thompson) 58%
Too close to call 5%

Spider-Man is our very first 'Character of the Month' and, as part of the celebration, we'll have weekly battles involving the characters that play a big role in his life! First up, we have former bully turned symbiote host Flash Thompson facing-off against the original Green Goblin, Norman Osborn. Will Agent Venom's impressive physicals put Norman back in the hospital or will the Goblin's wit and dangerous equipment allow him to take down the competition? After you've read the rules (seriously, don't be lazy and gloss over them!), leap into the debate and vote!

Match Rules

  • Combatants are in character (aka morals apply for both).
  • This is a random encounter (aka no prep for either).
  • They're fighting in a generic downtown city setting. It's unpopulated, at night and all standard city lights remain on. Assume they start roughly 80 feet apart and visible. There's a fair amount of cover between them (parked vehicles, bus stops and such). The entire area is on limits. This means alleys, rooftops, building interiors, etc.
  • Both characters have their standard gear.
  • For simplicity's sake, let's say the match begins with Flash in control of the symbiote and he'll attempt to keep control as the fight progresses.
  • Incapacitation, knockout or death all count as elimination. Making a tactical retreat counts as a loss, too.
  • Hey, you know what would be really cool? Treating everyone else in the debate with respect. If you think someone's saying something that just isn't true, go ahead and stick to the facts to point out why. There's no need at all to drop insults just because you disagree with someone. Seriously, this is just talking about a fictional fight, there's no need for immaturity and mudslinging.
  • If you think the poll isn't going how it should, making an informative post about why a character is being underestimated and spreading the word is far more useful than complaining. Just saying.
  • One more thing: you don't need to write an essay to be selected as the Viner Argument of the Week. Sometimes concise posts can be way more effective than a flood of paragraphs.

Viners, you have the week to research, debate and vote! This means there's no reason to vote right away if you don't have all of the info you need to make an educated decision. Check the homepage Friday for an updated article with the following:

  • Thoughts from the staff.
  • A Viner Argument for both characters (can't include scans and must be in the poll thread).
  • If we're lucky, blurbs from industry talent.

Feel free to make future "Spider-Man Battle of the Week" suggestions in the comments below or via Twitter! Want to continue celebrating Spidey? Well, he's the topic of our latest 'Question of the Week' and we encourage you to make Spider-Man threads in the forums!

#1 Posted by Wolverine08 (38582 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux @granitesoldier You Spider nut huggers get a battle of the week because of that competition Spider-Man won. Have fun....

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#2 Posted by Cgoodness (3878 posts) - - Show Bio

Eugene

#3 Posted by i_like_swords (13034 posts) - - Show Bio

It'll probably end in one of them beating the other. But it could be a tie as well.

#4 Posted by i_like_swords (13034 posts) - - Show Bio

Flash, for all we know, could be the victor here.

But then Green Goblin could be as well.

Lots of factors to consider.

#5 Posted by SionistheBoss (246 posts) - - Show Bio

Venom could take the Goblin. I mean, if spidey could, Venom easily could, as he is infact stronger. he could litteraly pull Goblin down and then blitz Osborn. but Greeny does have tricks up his sleeve, so it would be close

#6 Edited by PunyParker (8948 posts) - - Show Bio

Norman would find his weakness in seconds,and destroy the symbiote.

Then he would torture and brutally kill the host.

#7 Edited by PunyParker (8948 posts) - - Show Bio

You Spider nut huggers get a battle of the week because of that competition Spider-Man won. Have fun....

Thank you! :)

#8 Edited by Wolverine08 (38582 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08 said:

You Spider nut huggers get a battle of the week because of that competition Spider-Man won. Have fun....

Thank you! :)

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#9 Posted by highaccuser (5534 posts) - - Show Bio

Normans what, 10 tons? Flash is pressing a good 25 ton lead, maybe more if you consider his showings against rulk. The fact that battle threads between Norman and captain America are considered good fights should show that flash stomps, considering he's one shotted cap unintentionally while holding back.

Norman could conceiveably win if he had prep, but even then, flash has resisted prepped sonics from SpOck and fire requires Norman be a good distance away, and flash can easily close any gaps with his tendrils.

#10 Edited by Lone_Wolf_and_Cub (4887 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux @granitesoldier You Spider nut huggers get a battle of the week because of that competition Spider-Man won. Have fun....

Just another bitter Wolvie fan.

#11 Posted by tparks (4345 posts) - - Show Bio
#12 Posted by PunyParker (8948 posts) - - Show Bio

@punyparker said:

@wolverine08 said:

You Spider nut huggers get a battle of the week because of that competition Spider-Man won. Have fun....

Thank you! :)

#13 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (32681 posts) - - Show Bio

I have to go over the Venom ongoing again before I vote

@k4tzm4n Is this current, non-insane Normon?

#14 Posted by Boovisimo (1 posts) - - Show Bio

As much as I love Goblin, and I believe he would win if it actually came to a fight, the fact that they remain in character gives it to Venom. I don't think Norman would waste too much time on Flash. Maybe he'd drop a few bombs or something but I think he would eventually just give up and leave. Why waste the time and resources on this monster, who also causes havoc for Spiderman? I think he'd just fly off, thus counting as a loss.

#15 Posted by SionistheBoss (246 posts) - - Show Bio

Normans what, 10 tons? Flash is pressing a good 25 ton lead, maybe more if you consider his showings against rulk. The fact that battle threads between Norman and captain America are considered good fights should show that flash stomps, considering he's one shotted cap unintentionally while holding back.

Norman could conceiveably win if he had prep, but even then, flash has resisted prepped sonics from SpOck and fire requires Norman be a good distance away, and flash can easily close any gaps with his tendrils.

This

#16 Posted by PunyParker (8948 posts) - - Show Bio

Normans what, 10 tons? Flash is pressing a good 25 ton lead, maybe more if you consider his showings against rulk. The fact that battle threads between Norman and captain America are considered good fights should show that flash stomps, considering he's one shotted cap unintentionally while holding back.

Norman could conceiveably win if he had prep, but even then, flash has resisted prepped sonics from SpOck and fire requires Norman be a good distance away, and flash can easily close any gaps with his tendrils.

Norman is an evil genious.
Flash has some humanity in him.

I don't think it will be a problem.

@k4tzm4n Is this current, non-insane Normon?

We haven't seen current-non insane Norman fight,so i guess the classic one.

#17 Posted by TheAcidSkull (17272 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll go with Eugene. Goblin is formidable, but when serious, spider-man has overpowered him before, and most of the time Norman needs prep, it's a skill of his to actually tear spider-man down rather than engage him at times. Eugene on the other hand, is stronger than spider-man and doesn't have a rule against killing if the situation demands it. Combine the fact that this is a random encounter with Venom's enormous damage soak as well as flexibly power-wise, and you'll end up with a beaten Norman. Not to mention that if Venom decides to get serious he'll have a massive advantage over Green Goblin due to his increase power.

Thus, I believe that while it won't be easy, Flash will win.

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#18 Edited by i_like_swords (13034 posts) - - Show Bio

@tparks said:

@i_like_swords: Those are some pretty deep observations there.

Thanks man.. it did take me a few minutes to put together.

It just seems like one of those fights where anything can happen. I mean for all we know Norman could end up attacking Flash.

But then Flash would probably attack Norman too.

And then you need to think about the fact that they have weapons too.

I mean for all we know they might use those weapons to beat each other.

#19 Posted by laflux (14128 posts) - - Show Bio

Honeslty, I could give an argument as to why I think Flash would win, but I think it would take away from @granitesoldier, who I would consider more versed on Flash Thompson, and is more likely get the points across in a more impressive manner.

I may however play devil's advocate, and argue for Goblin, but it depends how motivated I am......

I'd go for Flash though IMO......

#20 Posted by SionistheBoss (246 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords:

But then Flash would probably attack Norman too.

wait, this is a probability?

#21 Posted by i_like_swords (13034 posts) - - Show Bio

@sionistheboss:

Well who knows, you know? We need to factor it in as a possibility.

Like I said - anything could happen.

Wouldn't be surprised if this fight ended up with one of them beating the other, in all honesty.

#22 Posted by SionistheBoss (246 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords:

Wouldn't be surprised if this fight ended up with one of them beating the other, in all honesty.

isn't that how any fight ends? someone winning? also, im 100% sure Eugene will start fighting Goblin if Goblin attacks Eugene, don't u? also, do u know how powerfull Goblin's bombs are? (reall question, not sarcasm)

#23 Posted by butters911 (251 posts) - - Show Bio

Norman would find his weakness in seconds,and destroy the symbiote.

Then he would torture and brutally kill the host.

It would take longer than seconds, but basically this.

#24 Edited by Wyldsong (5134 posts) - - Show Bio

@highaccuser said:

Normans what, 10 tons? Flash is pressing a good 25 ton lead, maybe more if you consider his showings against rulk. The fact that battle threads between Norman and captain America are considered good fights should show that flash stomps, considering he's one shotted cap unintentionally while holding back.

Norman could conceiveably win if he had prep, but even then, flash has resisted prepped sonics from SpOck and fire requires Norman be a good distance away, and flash can easily close any gaps with his tendrils.

Well remember, by most handbooks, Spidey is listed as 10 tons himself, but he has plenty of consistent feats that put him above that mark. Norman on goblin formula is generally consistently strong enough (and fast enough) to go head to head with Spidey and tank his hits (though I would put Spidey above Norman in stats overall), and of course Spidey has the strength levels to give Agent Venom a good fight (though the symbiote does tend make hosts stronger than Spidey). The symbiote's sonic resistance has been up and down, which could possibly be blamed on various intensities and frequencies, but SpOck's sonics and flame were not resisted, they hurt the symbiote, but they were able to get it together enough to escape.

All of that being said: In a random (which this is), I'd give it to Agent Venom. He has shown good resistance to Jack's incendiary bombs, so an average pumpkin bomb can be dealt with, and without special tech/gear, Norman would be hard pressed to actually put AV down. Norman can most certainly prolong the battle, as it would not be a stomp by any stretch of the imagination, but it would be a war of attrition, one that Norman would eventually lose.

And while this is not a battle with prep, I still want to throw one more thing out there: Prepped, I'd give it to Norman, as he has created sonic weaponry in the past (the sonic frog...I am not kidding), and has used plenty of fire in his time. Add in the goblin glider for aerial superiority, plus the insane assortment of weapons he has created and used over the years (DNA bombs, missiles, lasers, and so on), plus the fact that he has also worked closely with a Venom before, so he has firsthand experience/knowledge with the symbiote...I'd stand by a prepped Norman for the majority any day.

Now, if we are talking depowered Norman...well, Agent Venom all the way...

#25 Posted by LCazT1996 (519 posts) - - Show Bio

I think that the two of them would have a really good fight. On paper, Flash/Venom would KILL Goblin in a heartbeat. But Osborn/Goblin is always unpredictable, so who knows what might happen, even if he's unprepared. But I'm pretty sure that even if Flash lost control of the symbiote (or maybe even ESPECIALLY if he lost control), he'd still be able to beat Osborn.

#26 Posted by PunyParker (8948 posts) - - Show Bio

@punyparker said:

Norman would find his weakness in seconds,and destroy the symbiote.

Then he would torture and brutally kill the host.

It would take longer than seconds, but basically this.

Yeah,okay.

#27 Posted by Shawnbaby (10418 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux @granitesoldier You Spider nut huggers get a battle of the week because of that competition Spider-Man won. Have fun....

And as for the Wolverine Nuthuggers...

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#28 Posted by Wolverine08 (38582 posts) - - Show Bio

@shawnbaby: WHY IS FATE SO HARD ON US???????????????????????????

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#29 Posted by CyberWarrior (1445 posts) - - Show Bio

Stronger. Faster. Better. Thompson.

#30 Posted by scarspider (30 posts) - - Show Bio

Goblin would put up a good fight but Venom is just too tactical and powerful. Also Norman's madness is more of a hindrance than an advantage.

#31 Edited by theodixon9 (539 posts) - - Show Bio

Venom can has dealt with equipment similar to Green Goblin's in the past and come out the victor here. Pumpkin bombs? Jack O'Lantern has used numerous explosives on Flash and hasn't manged to fully defeat him.

Electric shocks? Again, Venom has been shown quite able to withstand this form of attack:

Asphyxiation Grenades? Venom's handled those too:

Poisonous weaponry? Venom's able to filter out toxins and, although they may affect him, Green Goblin will be down before Flash feels the full strength of the fatal gasses.

Finally, if Osborn decides to take on Venom in hand to hand combat we all know how that will turn out. He's taken beating from the likes of Scarlet Spider, Toxin and even Red Hulk. It's safe to say that my combatant of choice is strong, more durable and more agile. And since Spider-Man has defeated Normy before then so should Venom seeing as he is generally shown to be stronger than Parker. Plus, I don't think the OP says he can't "vulk out" just he's avoiding it so that gives him something to fall back on. Taking all these things into consideration, Flash should win.

#32 Edited by jashro44 (19594 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll go with Eugene. Goblin is formidable, but when serious, spider-man has overpowered him before, and most of the time Norman needs prep, it's a skill of his to actually tear spider-man down rather than engage him at times. Eugene on the other hand, is stronger than spider-man and doesn't have a rule against killing if the situation demands it. Combine the fact that this is a random encounter with Venom's enormous damage soak as well as flexibly power-wise, and you'll end up with a beaten Norman. Not to mention that if Venom decides to get serious he'll have a massive advantage over Green Goblin due to his increase power.

Thus, I believe that while it won't be easy, Flash will win.

Basically this.

#33 Edited by Shawnbaby (10418 posts) - - Show Bio
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#34 Posted by Wolverine08 (38582 posts) - - Show Bio
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#35 Posted by TommytheHitman (2859 posts) - - Show Bio

Flash, for all we know, could be the victor here.

But then Green Goblin could be as well.

Lots of factors to consider.

Agreed. Too close to call for me.

#36 Posted by G_leno (918 posts) - - Show Bio

I think that if prep was involved, Goblin would take this because he is an exceptional planner, lets face it, Parker isn't a dummy yet Norman fools him often. He has intellect enough to make all sorts of devices, but here here he doesn't get the opportunity.

In a random encounter, Venom takes this in a fight that would be much easier if it was Brock in the symbiote. Flash's control over the symbiote and his morals make him a fairer combatant but he is still more than capable handling an unprepared Osborn. From everything that I have seen of these two characters, Venom is faster and stronger with the ability to dodge most of what Gobby can throw at him. Once he has closed the distance and is in close combat, the fight wouldn't take too long for Thompson to finish up.

#37 Posted by dondave (34420 posts) - - Show Bio

Eugene

#38 Posted by leokearon (1759 posts) - - Show Bio

Venom easily, Osborn always does himself in

#39 Posted by duhyeager (17 posts) - - Show Bio

I am a Green Goblin Fanatic so I admit to having a little bias, so yes I chose Goblin and here is why. Goblin always has his bag of tricks, Goblin when in control of thunderbolts and the Dark avengers worked with the venom symbiote very closely and in all honesty the weaknesses are not a closely guarded secret. I do know and understand that the weaknesses do not mean automatic loss. The symbiotes can still come back after getting hit with sonic's, or doused in fire. With Osborn's close working relationship with venom I could bet he has some way to make the fight even with Venom.

#40 Posted by tparks (4345 posts) - - Show Bio

@tparks said:

@i_like_swords: Those are some pretty deep observations there.

Thanks man.. it did take me a few minutes to put together.

It just seems like one of those fights where anything can happen. I mean for all we know Norman could end up attacking Flash.

But then Flash would probably attack Norman too.

And then you need to think about the fact that they have weapons too.

I mean for all we know they might use those weapons to beat each other.

I get what you're saying.

Have you considered that if one of them wins, the other will lose?

Say that Green Goblin wins, then I'd feel fairly confident that Venom will lose. If Venom wins, then I would have to say that Green Goblin loses.

You really need to think about these things if you want to predict a battle like this.

#41 Posted by Spider-Man (178 posts) - - Show Bio
#42 Posted by averywetfrog (139 posts) - - Show Bio

the rules are more limiting on GG than Venom giving the win to Flash. Any other day of the week GG wins by a landslide.

#43 Edited by Wolverine08 (38582 posts) - - Show Bio
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#44 Edited by Owie (3620 posts) - - Show Bio

I can't see Norman winning this. Venom is too versatile, hard to injure, and strong.

#46 Posted by kidman560 (7577 posts) - - Show Bio

@oreoassassin get your butt down here and earn yourself a viner argument of the week as to why Venom should win here. I know you know him very well.

#47 Posted by i_like_swords (13034 posts) - - Show Bio

@tparks said:

@i_like_swords said:

@tparks said:

@i_like_swords: Those are some pretty deep observations there.

Thanks man.. it did take me a few minutes to put together.

It just seems like one of those fights where anything can happen. I mean for all we know Norman could end up attacking Flash.

But then Flash would probably attack Norman too.

And then you need to think about the fact that they have weapons too.

I mean for all we know they might use those weapons to beat each other.

I get what you're saying.

Have you considered that if one of them wins, the other will lose?

Say that Green Goblin wins, then I'd feel fairly confident that Venom will lose. If Venom wins, then I would have to say that Green Goblin loses.

You really need to think about these things if you want to predict a battle like this.

Oh. My. God.

I wasn't even aware that such a concept existed.. wow. That definitely makes things infinitely more complicated.

It's not just about who wins - it's also about who loses.

You're going to need to give me a few hours to process this. I have too much to think about now..

#48 Posted by Novemberx2 (403 posts) - - Show Bio

what will venom do? look cool?

#49 Edited by tparks (4345 posts) - - Show Bio
#50 Posted by Wolverine08 (38582 posts) - - Show Bio

Eugene.

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